Volkswagen bringing back Scout brand truck as electric vehicle made in America(axios.com)
axios.com
Volkswagen bringing back Scout brand truck as electric vehicle made in America
https://www.axios.com/2022/07/19/volkswagen-scout-vw-electric-vehicles-truck
142 comments
Startup life has ruined me, so I'll never be able to believe such an origin story anymore and always assume it's something that PR/marketing has made up.
The most believable part of the story is that the exec didn’t know Volkwagen Group had the rights to the name. The company is absolutely gargantuan.
It’s a great move. Of the main VW brands I can’t think of one that I would associate with rugged vehicles. SUVs, sure, but not pickup trucks.
It’s a great move. Of the main VW brands I can’t think of one that I would associate with rugged vehicles. SUVs, sure, but not pickup trucks.
what about kubelwagen and schwimmwagen? too soon? :)
The VW Type 2 had a few pickup/flatbed models too. :P
Ah, the type 2 - the genesis of the chicken tax:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax
Which is still screwing up the mini truck market in the US to this day :(
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax
Which is still screwing up the mini truck market in the US to this day :(
If I were the grease monkey type that could work on my own car, a Scout is definitely in the realm of classic car that I would love to have as a daily driver.
My dad owned several way back when.
He did a lot of converting them around. One from right hand drive to left, one to propane fuel, and one from an automatic to manual transmission!
They're really simple, crude vehicles. They have terrible handling and ride like a tractor.
But... they look super cool and give off rug and vibes...
He did a lot of converting them around. One from right hand drive to left, one to propane fuel, and one from an automatic to manual transmission!
They're really simple, crude vehicles. They have terrible handling and ride like a tractor.
But... they look super cool and give off rug and vibes...
I hope this ends up being smaller than the F150.
I get the popularity of that form factor, but I simply don't believe that many people are hauling yards of soil or towing boats.
2 Seats + 6 Foot bed seems like a winning combination in practicality, but is quite rare in the US.
I get the popularity of that form factor, but I simply don't believe that many people are hauling yards of soil or towing boats.
2 Seats + 6 Foot bed seems like a winning combination in practicality, but is quite rare in the US.
I get the sense that the pickup truck market in the U.S. particularly in suburbs is driven by brand marketing rather than consumer needs. People are paying a premium, in the cost of purchasing as well as in the cost of insuring, maintaining, and fueling, for the image of the rugged individualistic American ready for any terrain, weather, or load that needs hauling, and maximally armored to "win" should they ever hit a person or vehicle in their path.
There's a subset of contexts where they make sense although I think for _most_ people they're infrequent enough that it's way more sensible to use a cargo van or a sedan and then just rent a truck during the minority of times when you actually need one.
There's a subset of contexts where they make sense although I think for _most_ people they're infrequent enough that it's way more sensible to use a cargo van or a sedan and then just rent a truck during the minority of times when you actually need one.
That probably applies for many vehicle classes in general.
I live in the NYC area, and I see many specialized "lifestyle" vehicles such as offroaders like Jeep Wrangler Rubicons or sports cars like Porsches.
I would bet the majority of Rubicons I see rarely see terrain tougher than an unpaved driveway. The majority of Porsches I see will rarely experience a more thrilling drive than the owner flooring it from a stoplight.
Rather, it's to convey status or a lifestyle image.
While we're on the subject of pickup trucks - the Cybertruck. I have many friends who would never have thought of owning a truck before placing preorders for Cybertrucks. They are all white collar office workers, I've never seen them do any kind of hauling of cargo or offroading or other "rugged" or "adventurous" activities. But they are madly in love with the Cybertruck. It's purely a "look at me" lifestyle thing. Trucks like the F-150 (including the Lightning EV), Silverado, Tacoma, etc. don't even enter their radar.
Meanwhile I do have a handful of friends that work the trades, work in construction, etc. These guys all dismiss the Cybertruck as a toy and are interested in the F-150 Lightning, etc.
I live in the NYC area, and I see many specialized "lifestyle" vehicles such as offroaders like Jeep Wrangler Rubicons or sports cars like Porsches.
I would bet the majority of Rubicons I see rarely see terrain tougher than an unpaved driveway. The majority of Porsches I see will rarely experience a more thrilling drive than the owner flooring it from a stoplight.
Rather, it's to convey status or a lifestyle image.
While we're on the subject of pickup trucks - the Cybertruck. I have many friends who would never have thought of owning a truck before placing preorders for Cybertrucks. They are all white collar office workers, I've never seen them do any kind of hauling of cargo or offroading or other "rugged" or "adventurous" activities. But they are madly in love with the Cybertruck. It's purely a "look at me" lifestyle thing. Trucks like the F-150 (including the Lightning EV), Silverado, Tacoma, etc. don't even enter their radar.
Meanwhile I do have a handful of friends that work the trades, work in construction, etc. These guys all dismiss the Cybertruck as a toy and are interested in the F-150 Lightning, etc.
The giant king cab luxury seating is the only thing available on the larger and more expensive models unless you have access to fleet purchasing. They definitely have a market and they've tuned product lines for it. There are even supersport models. Personally, I hate the short-beds cuz you can't easily transport lumber or plywood sheets.
Both the Hyundai Santa Cruz and Ford Ranger have tail gates that will partially lower to the same level as the tops of the wheel wells, providing a perfect platform for 4x8 sheets of plywood. I have a friend with a Ranger and we have hauled plywood and other larger objects with no issues. Would I want to do it routinely? Probably not - but for casual hauling they work well enough. I would expect the Scout to be designed in a very similar way.
I've owned trucks with 8 foot beds in the past - I'd rather have a second row of seats and a smaller bed as well as a vehicle that's overall smaller than the 8 foot bed trucks of old. These newer designs are a great compromise of functionality and convenience, which is why you are seeing them take over the lower end.
What I really want is the return of true micro pickups like the original Nissan hard body :(
I've owned trucks with 8 foot beds in the past - I'd rather have a second row of seats and a smaller bed as well as a vehicle that's overall smaller than the 8 foot bed trucks of old. These newer designs are a great compromise of functionality and convenience, which is why you are seeing them take over the lower end.
What I really want is the return of true micro pickups like the original Nissan hard body :(
The other problem with the short beds is that they are "compensated" for by raising the belt line to make the bed deeper. This compromises rear visibility. Then the long beds suffer because they also get a deep bed to integrate with the cab. On old Rangers you used to be able to walk up and just reach into the bed to get stuff. That isn't possible on any current midsize and up pickups.
> That isn't possible on any current midsize and up pickups.
Yes it is. Or maybe I'm just tall enough? I do it all the time. I can't reach the middle of full size trucks with both feet on the ground, but I never could with older full size trucks, either.
Yes it is. Or maybe I'm just tall enough? I do it all the time. I can't reach the middle of full size trucks with both feet on the ground, but I never could with older full size trucks, either.
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Yup. The old Ranger died because it was a partnership between Mazda and Ford - and it expired.
With the chicken tax squelching real competition and the fact that they can charge more for larger vehicles - whelp, you end up with the current American market where there are truly no more mini pickups. It sucks!
With the chicken tax squelching real competition and the fact that they can charge more for larger vehicles - whelp, you end up with the current American market where there are truly no more mini pickups. It sucks!
And if you are as frustrated by the lack of true mini-pickups as I am, search the 'net and read about the chicken tax. Which was aimed at locking VW out of the US market quite a while ago, has lingered on way past it's prime and has bit even American manufacturers in the butt as more manufacturing has shifted outside of the US. Gotta love unintended consequences - ha!
Ya it’s insane and unfortunate how the chicken tax wrecked trucks. Was it really directed towards VW though? I thought it was more against Japanese auto makes.
Nope, VW around WWII (I think just before - need to go re-read)
EDIT: It was post WWII. And VW Type 2 is profiled in the wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax
EDIT: It was post WWII. And VW Type 2 is profiled in the wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax
Nice thanks for the follow up!
I’ve been curious with the functionality of short beds - the only advantage I can think of is a shorter wheel base for towing/maneuvering a trailer. Otherwise they make no sense to me
> There's a subset of contexts where they make sense although I think for _most_ people they're infrequent enough that it's way more sensible to use a cargo van or a sedan and then just rent a truck during the minority of times when you actually need one.
Even a minivan can tow a small trailer for occasional lumber store runs or towing a jet ski or two. Or just use the roof rack and some tie-downs. Or take the seats out, many of them will fit some plywood inside without trouble. For a larger boat, you can often rent a slip at your usual lake or whatever cheaper than the difference in annual TCO between a truck and a smaller car. Not helpful if you move your boat from one body of water to another a lot, but the only folks I know who do that have small fishing boats that a van could probably tow just fine. Besides, you can pay for several construction deliveries and probably pay to have your boat moved a couple times a year for the difference in annual cost. No sense paying all that extra gas, insurance, and up-front cost for something with features you only use every other month or less, when you can just pay less money to do a daily truck rental periodically, for a delivery service, et c.
But no, people need their immaculate $50,000+ trucks in the 'burbs just to show that they could blow $50,000+ on a truck they don't need, and so they fit in with their buds who also own trucks. Quite a few are purchased for good reasons, but a lot are mostly purchased for social signaling.
Even a minivan can tow a small trailer for occasional lumber store runs or towing a jet ski or two. Or just use the roof rack and some tie-downs. Or take the seats out, many of them will fit some plywood inside without trouble. For a larger boat, you can often rent a slip at your usual lake or whatever cheaper than the difference in annual TCO between a truck and a smaller car. Not helpful if you move your boat from one body of water to another a lot, but the only folks I know who do that have small fishing boats that a van could probably tow just fine. Besides, you can pay for several construction deliveries and probably pay to have your boat moved a couple times a year for the difference in annual cost. No sense paying all that extra gas, insurance, and up-front cost for something with features you only use every other month or less, when you can just pay less money to do a daily truck rental periodically, for a delivery service, et c.
But no, people need their immaculate $50,000+ trucks in the 'burbs just to show that they could blow $50,000+ on a truck they don't need, and so they fit in with their buds who also own trucks. Quite a few are purchased for good reasons, but a lot are mostly purchased for social signaling.
If you need a truck even 5% of the time it is overall cheapest to just own a truck. Insurance, car payments, and other fixed costs are too high to make a second car worth it, and renting a car is not cheap, not to mention rental rules often mean you can't use the truck as a truck. (I've been looking for a place to rent a truck so I can replace mine, a couple times a year I do something that no rental truck will let me do) Sure a truck uses a lot more fuel, but fuel is a small part of the cost of a car.
Though I don't get families with more than one truck/suv. One will do the job for all of those things, and a EV (even a limited range one like the older leaf) will take care of all the other. Only rarely do you have to tell your spouse that you need the truck so drive "my" car.
Though I don't get families with more than one truck/suv. One will do the job for all of those things, and a EV (even a limited range one like the older leaf) will take care of all the other. Only rarely do you have to tell your spouse that you need the truck so drive "my" car.
No it's cheaper to just get a utility trailer and hook it to your existing vehicle. Even a compact economy car can do just fine towing one. They can carry up to 1500lbs for the smaller ones, and cost less than $1000. You don't have to pay the same road tax every year, or insurance. You don't have maintenance to do on it other than tires and wheel bearings which are all generic and dirt cheap.
I've been able to do all my house projects for the last 7-8 years towing one behind my Honda Fit. I've picked up motorcycles with it (which is way easier to load than a tall pickup bed). Picked up engines, car parts. I have hauled sheetrock, pavers, plywood, lumber, furniture... I have done countless dump runs... I have moved with it, and helped others move with it. The car + trailer ends up embarrassing the pickups who show up to help move, as they can't carry as much stuff as the car + trailer combo.
And when I'm not hauling things, the car seats 4 comfortably, and we can put stuff in the hatch without worrying about it getting wet... I get mid-30s mpgs.
Anything that's too big or heavy for my trailer... well I have it delivered. Chances are, that load is also too big for your average 1500 pickup.
I've been able to do all my house projects for the last 7-8 years towing one behind my Honda Fit. I've picked up motorcycles with it (which is way easier to load than a tall pickup bed). Picked up engines, car parts. I have hauled sheetrock, pavers, plywood, lumber, furniture... I have done countless dump runs... I have moved with it, and helped others move with it. The car + trailer ends up embarrassing the pickups who show up to help move, as they can't carry as much stuff as the car + trailer combo.
And when I'm not hauling things, the car seats 4 comfortably, and we can put stuff in the hatch without worrying about it getting wet... I get mid-30s mpgs.
Anything that's too big or heavy for my trailer... well I have it delivered. Chances are, that load is also too big for your average 1500 pickup.
Most compact cars can tow maybe 1000 pounds. Thats including the trailer weight. Any more, you risk damage to the transmission - they're largely aluminum these days, and not designed to do much more than move the car around.
You have FWD, don't even think about it.
I would be careful taking any recommendation to 'just pull a trailer'. Sure U-Haul will install the hitch. That doesn't mean anything.
You have FWD, don't even think about it.
I would be careful taking any recommendation to 'just pull a trailer'. Sure U-Haul will install the hitch. That doesn't mean anything.
> renting a car is not cheap
U-Haul pickups are $19.95 + mileage. For me personally, I think that'd come to something like $50 for a single hardware store trip, plus inconvenience. So far I haven't had to do that, so I can't vouch for that number to be accurate.
U-Haul pickups are $19.95 + mileage. For me personally, I think that'd come to something like $50 for a single hardware store trip, plus inconvenience. So far I haven't had to do that, so I can't vouch for that number to be accurate.
There’s the subject of availability, however. Pickup trucks tend to move quickly on weekends especially. The last time I needed to rent one on a Saturday, for example, it took eight or nine phone calls and driving to three different Home Depots (which rent out trucks on a first-come, first-serve basis). Just getting the truck took half a day.
More planning would’ve helped on my part, but damn, what a hassle.
More planning would’ve helped on my part, but damn, what a hassle.
Sure, your mileage may vary. There's a lot of pickups and small box trucks a few miles from here, and I've never seen it empty in the last several years. I'm pretty remote though, bigger cities are probably much more rush hour driven.
Is your need expedition based; ie, rugged backcountry vacation? or work based, need to haul some dirt, lumber, random material? If so what about renting a truck form Uhaul?
I collect antique tractors which will fit on a heavy duty car trailer. One bigger than what uhaul rents for cars.
As mentioned elsewhere, uhaul is often sold out when i'm likely to do this.
As mentioned elsewhere, uhaul is often sold out when i'm likely to do this.
I expect using a truck as a truck, for a situation in which a roof rack or a small trailer towed by a lesser vehicle wouldn't have sufficed, 18-19 days a year would put you way above average for non-business truck owners in my area.
> I've been looking for a place to rent a truck so I can replace mine, a couple times a year I do something that no rental truck will let me do
Off the top of my head: Home Depot, Lowe’s, Menards, U-Haul, Penske, United Rentals, Sunbelt Rentals.
Off the top of my head: Home Depot, Lowe’s, Menards, U-Haul, Penske, United Rentals, Sunbelt Rentals.
Will those places let you tow a heavy utility trailer with trailer brakes?
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32158302
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32158302
Yes, United or sunbelt for sure, they rent construction equipment.
> it's way more sensible to use a cargo van
If I could have gotten a cargo van for an equivalent price when I bought the (used) truck I have now, I would have. But they were starting at 4x the price. I use it to haul tools and materials and a cargo van would have been so much easier.
If I could have gotten a cargo van for an equivalent price when I bought the (used) truck I have now, I would have. But they were starting at 4x the price. I use it to haul tools and materials and a cargo van would have been so much easier.
> hauling yards of soil or towing boats
I'm not defending the number of pickups on the road in America but this is an out of touch comment. Some common uses of pickup beds include:
* Hauling motorcycles and ATVs including snowmobiles.
* Carrying campers.
* Carrying home improvement projects such as bags of soil, plants, and raw material such as 8'x2"x4" lumber or 4'x8' plywood. At least in the 2000s a 4x8 sheet of plywood will not fit in a compact pickup but lays flat in a fullsize.
Some common uses of pickups include:
* Towing pull-behind RVs or fifth-wheels.
* Towing boats.
* Camping with the family.
A lot of modern pickups seem to include some kind of bed cover that makes them well suited to mundane tasks like hauling groceries as well.
All of that suggests to me that pickup manufacturers do in fact know their customers.
> 2 Seats + 6 Foot bed seems like a winning combination in practicality, but is quite rare in the US.
Because it's too small to be useful. You can't fit a sheet of plywood in that easily. You might be able to get a small motorcycle in there with some wrangling, but maybe not. 2 seats means you can't carry the whole family, so now you need a second car if you have kids, or friends. And if you actually do use the truck for weekend activity like hauling boats or an RV then you need to drive both cars.
The fact is the fullsize truck actually does work for American consumers. That's why people buy them. And why manufacturers make them.
All of this totally ignores the hundreds of thousands of "work trucks" that are being fully loaded every day. Landscapers, farmers, contractors, etc all rely on the pickup form factor for obvious reasons. And looking around those are often used trucks, including the high trim level luxury versions from a previous generation.
I'm not defending the number of pickups on the road in America but this is an out of touch comment. Some common uses of pickup beds include:
* Hauling motorcycles and ATVs including snowmobiles.
* Carrying campers.
* Carrying home improvement projects such as bags of soil, plants, and raw material such as 8'x2"x4" lumber or 4'x8' plywood. At least in the 2000s a 4x8 sheet of plywood will not fit in a compact pickup but lays flat in a fullsize.
Some common uses of pickups include:
* Towing pull-behind RVs or fifth-wheels.
* Towing boats.
* Camping with the family.
A lot of modern pickups seem to include some kind of bed cover that makes them well suited to mundane tasks like hauling groceries as well.
All of that suggests to me that pickup manufacturers do in fact know their customers.
> 2 Seats + 6 Foot bed seems like a winning combination in practicality, but is quite rare in the US.
Because it's too small to be useful. You can't fit a sheet of plywood in that easily. You might be able to get a small motorcycle in there with some wrangling, but maybe not. 2 seats means you can't carry the whole family, so now you need a second car if you have kids, or friends. And if you actually do use the truck for weekend activity like hauling boats or an RV then you need to drive both cars.
The fact is the fullsize truck actually does work for American consumers. That's why people buy them. And why manufacturers make them.
All of this totally ignores the hundreds of thousands of "work trucks" that are being fully loaded every day. Landscapers, farmers, contractors, etc all rely on the pickup form factor for obvious reasons. And looking around those are often used trucks, including the high trim level luxury versions from a previous generation.
About 2/3rds of truck owners don't use the bed much at all.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-siz...
https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-siz...
> And a full 35 percent of truck owners use their truck for hauling—putting something in the bed, its ostensible raison d’être—once a year or less.
Reads to me like 2/3 of truck owners use their bed at least twice a year.
From the same paragraph:
> 75 percent of truck owners use their truck for towing one time a year or less (meaning, never).
Over 25% of trucks are used for towing.
> Nearly 70 percent of truck owners go off-road one time a year or less.
A third of truck owners go offroad.
Add all that up and it sounds like pickups are getting a lot of use. There are no stats on what percentage of people do at least one of those things so we are left to guess but by the claims in the article it is at least "most".
Reads to me like 2/3 of truck owners use their bed at least twice a year.
From the same paragraph:
> 75 percent of truck owners use their truck for towing one time a year or less (meaning, never).
Over 25% of trucks are used for towing.
> Nearly 70 percent of truck owners go off-road one time a year or less.
A third of truck owners go offroad.
Add all that up and it sounds like pickups are getting a lot of use. There are no stats on what percentage of people do at least one of those things so we are left to guess but by the claims in the article it is at least "most".
> 75 percent of truck owners use their truck for towing one time a year or less (meaning, never).
Even once is not never, because nothing else will do that job.
Note too that there people who use their bed but never tow, the fact that a truck could serve either purpose but for some only does one doesn't mean that those people don't use a truck.
Even once is not never, because nothing else will do that job.
Note too that there people who use their bed but never tow, the fact that a truck could serve either purpose but for some only does one doesn't mean that those people don't use a truck.
Or you could just drive a much smaller cheaper and easier to park car most of the year and rent a truck once a year when you need it
As mentioned in another subthread, rental contracts for pickup trucks often prohibit towing, and the trucks aren't even fitted with a tow hitch. If you want to tow with a rented truck, you'll need to rent from a "commercial" rental company and you'll be paying a lot more.
In the suburbs, there is no penalty for owning a large vehicle.
Even if it doesn't fit in your garage (because it's full of cars/stuff), you can park in your driveway. No one will complain if you block the sidewalk, because no one walks anywhere.
Shopping areas have large parking areas and structures. It is not unusual to see pickup trucks taking up more than two spaces. Parallel parking is uncommon and usually can be avoided.
Even if it doesn't fit in your garage (because it's full of cars/stuff), you can park in your driveway. No one will complain if you block the sidewalk, because no one walks anywhere.
Shopping areas have large parking areas and structures. It is not unusual to see pickup trucks taking up more than two spaces. Parallel parking is uncommon and usually can be avoided.
Yes. I would have liked if they bucketed the responses. Something like 0, 1-10, 20-50, etc. But they just asked (or The Drive only reported) the 0-1 numbers.
What is conspicuously absent from these numbers is a response to the question "do you never use the bed or go offroad or tow with your truck". Which is the case that the article seems to be trying to make but can't.
What is conspicuously absent from these numbers is a response to the question "do you never use the bed or go offroad or tow with your truck". Which is the case that the article seems to be trying to make but can't.
Probably all the trucks I see driving in cities. Come out to the country and see how much trucks get used.
I live in the city and I see pickup trucks every day. Most of them are "work trucks" but that just means city trucks are getting a lot of use too.
Still seems to be an American phenomenon (saw it first hand in Mexico, not US/Canada) - in Europe everyone has a van for (construction) work, not a pickup truck. And by everyone I mean easily 90% (unless you're talking real truck of 7.5t+) with maybe an exception for garden workers.
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> At least in the 2000s a 4x8 sheet of plywood will not fit in a compact pickup but lays flat in a fullsize.
I hate to break it to you but the F150 XLT Crew Cab tops out at 6.5ft. Your 4x8 plywood won't fit with the gate up. And if you have to put the gate down for standard sizes do you really need a fullsize pickup to do it?
I hate to break it to you but the F150 XLT Crew Cab tops out at 6.5ft. Your 4x8 plywood won't fit with the gate up. And if you have to put the gate down for standard sizes do you really need a fullsize pickup to do it?
If I'm only hauling a few sheets than I leave the tailgate gate up and lean the board on it. Straps can't hold just a few sheets very well laying flat unless the attachment points are significantly lower. I learned this the hard way when I had to pick up a couple sheets of plywood off the highway. The other option is to lay a few 2x4s under it to raise the sheets and give the straps a better capability to hold.
Yes because in a smaller truck (like a Tacoma) the plywood doesn't fit between the wheel wells so it has to be loaded awkwardly and reduces what else you can haul because you can't put things on top of the plywood.
I presume the availability of 4x4 helps with trucks as well? Does for me at least
> yards of soil
Very few F150s are rated to carry a single yard of soil. About half that is more typical.
> 2 Seats + 6 Foot bed seems like a winning combination in practicality, but is quite rare in the US.
The market has spoken. Crew cabs were available in the 70s but not common. Now they dominate. Why? Because the average pickup buyer in the US can accurately be described as "everyone." Which means a do-everything vehicle with seating capacity like a car but utility like a truck is extremely popular.
Very few F150s are rated to carry a single yard of soil. About half that is more typical.
> 2 Seats + 6 Foot bed seems like a winning combination in practicality, but is quite rare in the US.
The market has spoken. Crew cabs were available in the 70s but not common. Now they dominate. Why? Because the average pickup buyer in the US can accurately be described as "everyone." Which means a do-everything vehicle with seating capacity like a car but utility like a truck is extremely popular.
Well, an old Scout is a two-door, two row SUV, with a bit of storage in the back and a hatch-back + tail gate. Not a compact pickup (but actually a pretty short length; it qualifies for a small car rate on the Washington State ferries!). International Harvester did make pickup trucks into the mid 70s and they share some bodywork and design elements with Scouts such that you might call it a Scout pickup, but that's not what IH called them.
The compact pickup with a standard cab + 6 foot bed was mostly killed by CAFE standard updates. It didn't make sense to make them based on the footprint model. Hopefully electric trucks will bring this segment back, since they don't have the same constraints leading them towards larger footprints.
The compact pickup with a standard cab + 6 foot bed was mostly killed by CAFE standard updates. It didn't make sense to make them based on the footprint model. Hopefully electric trucks will bring this segment back, since they don't have the same constraints leading them towards larger footprints.
[deleted]
The original Scout 80s and 800s had a removable top. International produced both full-length and half-cab hard tops, so you could definitely have your Scout configured as a compact pickup truck.
Non-crew cab is almost extinct. I think there are tax/regulatory reasons for this, but it also drives me crazy that so many trucks have beds that are terrible at carrying 8' long items like 2x4s and plywood sheets. At least with a 6' bed the stuff is only sticking out a little past the end of the tailgate.
I would wager it is only the retail market where the non-crew-cab is nearly extinct. A two seat pickup is a niche vehicle, about as useful for carrying a family around as a two seat sports car.
Pickup trucks aren't for carrying a family around. The whole point is to have a large open cargo space for building materials, equipment, etc... If you want to haul a family use a sedan or minivan. Those back seats in crew cabs are always cramped and uncomfortable anyway. They are a terrible tradeoff, and yet the entire automotive industry has gone all in on them.
What if you need to haul things while simultaneously carrying a family around? I don't find them to be a terrible tradeoff at all, and I expect that the reason the entire automotive industry has gone all in on them is because I'm not an outlier in that regard.
> What if you need to haul things while simultaneously carrying a family around?
Have one partner drive a sedan/wagon with the kids and another partner haul. A lot more economical too.
Have one partner drive a sedan/wagon with the kids and another partner haul. A lot more economical too.
How is it more economical to drive the truck and car instead of just the truck?
Because you can drive such a truck https://preview.redd.it/jxpnmzv586e81.png?width=1024&auto=we... if you do not need to transport a family and a sedan and those two will weigh less and have better combined gas mileage than american larger truck. If you relax the assumption that you always transport both a family and a truck load you allow for more powerful trucks and still come out ahead.
In addition you do not need to waste gas if either capability goes unused and the mileage of transporting people won't depreciate the more expensive truck faster.
In addition you do not need to waste gas if either capability goes unused and the mileage of transporting people won't depreciate the more expensive truck faster.
Get an ute then?
> Those back seats in crew cabs are always cramped and uncomfortable anyway
Huh? Show me a single sedan with the rear seat legroom of an F150? Heck, how many come within six inches of having that kind of legroom?
No wonder you think pickups aren't for carrying a family around.
Huh? Show me a single sedan with the rear seat legroom of an F150? Heck, how many come within six inches of having that kind of legroom?
No wonder you think pickups aren't for carrying a family around.
> A two seat pickup is a niche vehicle, about as useful for carrying a family around as a two seat sports car.
Not to country folk—kids ride in the bed. Or crammed in the middle if there aren't too many of them and they're still fairly small and you're lucky enough to still have a bench seat.
Not to country folk—kids ride in the bed. Or crammed in the middle if there aren't too many of them and they're still fairly small and you're lucky enough to still have a bench seat.
Not legally (in many states).
Lay down in the bed and nobody will see.
Have you ever been in the back of a pickup? This would be incredibly uncomfortable at best and is likely to cause a concussion or worse.
I have. I had a pillow. Went about 45 miles. I don't recommend it.
Edit: The ride really wasn't so bad, but it wasn't exactly comfortable, and it was a bit awkward. I recommend riding in a factory installed seat with a seat belt. For safety.
Edit: The ride really wasn't so bad, but it wasn't exactly comfortable, and it was a bit awkward. I recommend riding in a factory installed seat with a seat belt. For safety.
Never stopped country folk before. See also: shooting stop signs.
Doesn't work for suburbanites with trucks, though.
Doesn't work for suburbanites with trucks, though.
Hasn't been my experience. Rural or not, everyone I know has a crew cab now. Supercabs are not uncommon, but the minority for sure, and single cabs are so rare that they catch your eye. Mostly because the fundamental design of modern trucks was clearly not intended for a single cab, so it looks chopped.
Damn, that changed fast.
Even in the work market they want the crew cab: for the crew to ride around in. I've been the person on a crew who had to ride in the middle seat of the small truck, I never want to again.
FWIW, I have a Ridgeline with a 5'4" bed. My 10'6" surfboards are fine with the tailgate down (total flat length just shy of 7') and a red flag on the end.
Edit - I would have considered a Santa Cruz or Maverick, had they been available when I bought the RL. But, they're beds are smaller yet and one of the big selling points of the RL was the under-bed trunk, which is massive (about the same as the trunk on my wife's BMW).
Edit - I would have considered a Santa Cruz or Maverick, had they been available when I bought the RL. But, they're beds are smaller yet and one of the big selling points of the RL was the under-bed trunk, which is massive (about the same as the trunk on my wife's BMW).
The Santa Cruz has a lot of storage under the bed. I was shocked that Ford completely seemed to miss the boat with that in the Maverick.
I finally saw a Santa Cruz in person - the bed is quite a bit higher than I was expecting; then again that's how they get the storage :p
I finally saw a Santa Cruz in person - the bed is quite a bit higher than I was expecting; then again that's how they get the storage :p
It's about half the size of the Ridgeline trunk, mostly due to shallower depth.
My trunk always contains a small toolbox, bicycle pump, electric SUP pump, several camp chairs and a folding table, PFDs, SUP/kayak paddles, water shoes/flip-flops, tie-downs, and some other odds/ends, with room to spare.
My trunk always contains a small toolbox, bicycle pump, electric SUP pump, several camp chairs and a folding table, PFDs, SUP/kayak paddles, water shoes/flip-flops, tie-downs, and some other odds/ends, with room to spare.
>2 Seats + 6 Foot bed seems like a winning combination in practicality, but is quite rare in the US.
I'd argue that it seems the exact opposite. People aren't buying $50,000+ 4-door 4x4 trucks because Ford is forcing that on them, they are demanding it. And 2 seats are nowhere near optimal practicality.
I'd argue that it seems the exact opposite. People aren't buying $50,000+ 4-door 4x4 trucks because Ford is forcing that on them, they are demanding it. And 2 seats are nowhere near optimal practicality.
> I hope this ends up being smaller than the F150.
The 2023 Ford Ranger will have an EV (or plug-in hybrid, or both) option. VW is using the platform for their Amarok truck. It seems reasonably likely that it may be the platform for the 1st-gen Scout pickup, rather than starting from a clean sheet of paper.
The 2023 Ford Ranger will have an EV (or plug-in hybrid, or both) option. VW is using the platform for their Amarok truck. It seems reasonably likely that it may be the platform for the 1st-gen Scout pickup, rather than starting from a clean sheet of paper.
You haven't been camping in Utah recently. If you did, you would wonder whether anyone has any other vehicle besides an F150/250/350. It's incredible.
3 Seat bench + 6ft bed for me, but yes. Keep it small.
I'm pretty psyched about the "Buzz", an electric reboot of the famous T1 bus [1]. Not sure how I would actually use this but it seems they're finally getting to grips with what made people love VW's in the past, and translating that to electric vehicles. I've also driven their electric ID.3 and it's just not nearly as exciting.
1: https://www.vw.com/en/models/id-buzz.html
1: https://www.vw.com/en/models/id-buzz.html
The US version will apparently be the long wheelbase expensive version, which imo is disappointing but the variants being offered in EU are pretty exciting.
You can thank the chicken tax for killing off true mini truck options
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax
Incredibly disappointed with how designed the front on this one. The original T1 had round 'eyes' and a friendly look; the headlights on the new one give it a mean squinting look.
If they made an affordable, electric truck about the size of the original SR-5/Tacoma with a simple interior I could easily clean I'd buy one. This will end up being another over-sized, over-priced American mess that no one actually takes off-road.
I have heard that VW suffers in the USA because of extremely poor and predatory dealership experiences
[deleted]
I bought VWs & Audis in 3 states and had no issues.
I also had zero problems with any of my cars... including A6s and my last VW product was a VW CC.
But after that, the cars were always out of step with what they were competing with. VW started making "VWs cars for Americans in America", like the Atlas. I bought a Highlander because the Atlas was bigger than I wanted, had less tech (at the beginning, not true at the end).
ID4? I bought a Tesla Y.
I wanted an R as my last ICE vehicle, couldn't get one to save my life, and I tried.
They're #2 globally behind Toyota, but I think they're moving a ton of Tiguans nowadays.
I also had zero problems with any of my cars... including A6s and my last VW product was a VW CC.
But after that, the cars were always out of step with what they were competing with. VW started making "VWs cars for Americans in America", like the Atlas. I bought a Highlander because the Atlas was bigger than I wanted, had less tech (at the beginning, not true at the end).
ID4? I bought a Tesla Y.
I wanted an R as my last ICE vehicle, couldn't get one to save my life, and I tried.
They're #2 globally behind Toyota, but I think they're moving a ton of Tiguans nowadays.
I love my VW CC (2013) when it runs, but geez I've had engine trouble, the faulty suspension that leads to tire cupping drives me nuts, and the VW dealer in my town sucks. I swore off VW a few years ago, but the new VW bus replacement might make me change my mind.
> I wanted an R as my last ICE vehicle, couldn't get one to save my life, and I tried.
Some how I got a 2016 R (manual) on launch; it's my current vehicle, and I cannot bear the idea of parting with it, but I will most likely be selling it to by a EUV.
Some how I got a 2016 R (manual) on launch; it's my current vehicle, and I cannot bear the idea of parting with it, but I will most likely be selling it to by a EUV.
I had a 2018 Golf R (automatic). Loved it. Unfortunately, my family outgrew it, and I had trade it in for a Tiguan. The Tiguan is..okay. A bit underpowered, but it's slightly larger than other SUVs in this class.
As far as the reputation of VW dealers: they are the same as any other car company. Some are good, some are bad. My dealer is fine.
As far as the reputation of VW dealers: they are the same as any other car company. Some are good, some are bad. My dealer is fine.
I bought a new 2011 TDI JettaSportwagen and didn't find the dealer experience any worse or better than my other dealer experiences (2007 Ford, 2017 Chrysler). Dieselgate was a disappointment, but I was thrilled with how they handled it; we had grown out of the car, and they purchased it at a nice price with zero fuss. I would love it if that happened again.
It's an interesting comment. Some believe that VW will make Scouts a direct to consumer brand, like Tesla, rather than part of the VW dealer (or any) network.
I try to avoid VW brands because of dieselgate - don't want to support them after that.
I try to avoid VW brands because of dieselgate - don't want to support them after that.
Maybe they'll run it like Geely/Volvo Auto has been running Polestar? Polestar today is direct to consumer with a handful of showrooms like Tesla, but with a support contract with Volvo Auto dealerships. (My biggest complaint with Polestar is that there aren't yet enough showrooms in the US and I wish I could test drive one at my local Volvo dealership, because would really like to test drive the Polestar 2 and don't want to drive 9-12 hours to do it.)
As for dieselgate, for what it is worth VW seems to be going above and beyond in restitution. They made a larger voluntary factory recall than any of the car manufacturers that have since been caught with minor dieselgate scandals. They've invested more into Electrify America than just the US EPA mandated "fines". They've been seeming to follow through on their promises to aggressively electrify their entire fleet in a very short time window/turnaround. (They claim they will not sell any non-EV starting with the 2025 model year, next year. They seem on track to maybe hit that, with some question marks around some US only models remaining.) It's dumb that it took a scandal like dieselgate to push VW to turning the ship so hard, but they actually might be turning the ship.
As for dieselgate, for what it is worth VW seems to be going above and beyond in restitution. They made a larger voluntary factory recall than any of the car manufacturers that have since been caught with minor dieselgate scandals. They've invested more into Electrify America than just the US EPA mandated "fines". They've been seeming to follow through on their promises to aggressively electrify their entire fleet in a very short time window/turnaround. (They claim they will not sell any non-EV starting with the 2025 model year, next year. They seem on track to maybe hit that, with some question marks around some US only models remaining.) It's dumb that it took a scandal like dieselgate to push VW to turning the ship so hard, but they actually might be turning the ship.
People often single out particular brands for having poor dealership experiences, but for me, every non-luxury brand dealership experience has been terrible. VW, Toyota, Ford, Hyundai - etc. etc.
The luxury brand dealerships have generally been mountains better, though I'm sure you can find people who've had bad experiences at them too.
The experience in dealerships between brands under the same corporate umbrella are night and day too. For example, say, Toyota vs Lexus.
The luxury brand dealerships have generally been mountains better, though I'm sure you can find people who've had bad experiences at them too.
The experience in dealerships between brands under the same corporate umbrella are night and day too. For example, say, Toyota vs Lexus.
I've owned an International Harvester 73 Scout II 4x4 345/torqueflite since 1999.
We've had Ford, the company that managed to kill off the lightline range in 1979 by colluding with their big three partners to crush IH, bringing out their flimsy '60's "Bronco' scout copy which they recently resurrected as a blatant Scout 800 body styling clone.
My point - why are the big auto makers so terrible at innovation and naming conventions? Why do we have to endure these irritating stories about execs 'resurrecting' past era vehicles and trying to get some of the mystique to rub off on their lame new models?
I also own a 1967 IH Travelall 4 x4. IH were absolutely awesome at building vehicles that were very beefy and mechanically built to last but horrifically rust prone. They helped kill themselves by ludicrously over optioning their lightline vehicles with what seemed like 100's of trim options, variants and levels that were very hard to organize on the assembly line. The golden era of US automobile manufacturing being culturally strip mined by VW.
1968 International Scout TV Commercial featuring a beagle puppy cute https://youtu.be/nKj3sjmRm5U
We've had Ford, the company that managed to kill off the lightline range in 1979 by colluding with their big three partners to crush IH, bringing out their flimsy '60's "Bronco' scout copy which they recently resurrected as a blatant Scout 800 body styling clone.
My point - why are the big auto makers so terrible at innovation and naming conventions? Why do we have to endure these irritating stories about execs 'resurrecting' past era vehicles and trying to get some of the mystique to rub off on their lame new models?
I also own a 1967 IH Travelall 4 x4. IH were absolutely awesome at building vehicles that were very beefy and mechanically built to last but horrifically rust prone. They helped kill themselves by ludicrously over optioning their lightline vehicles with what seemed like 100's of trim options, variants and levels that were very hard to organize on the assembly line. The golden era of US automobile manufacturing being culturally strip mined by VW.
1968 International Scout TV Commercial featuring a beagle puppy cute https://youtu.be/nKj3sjmRm5U
Whoah you mentioned some interesting background into the history of IH. Seeing VW pair with IH was also very surprising to see in the article - especially in regards to EVs (as IH has predominately been a diesel manufacturer in my lifetime).
Why did Ford want to “crush” IH if they put their Diesel engines into Ford trucks for like 3 decades?
There was a HN post recently about the stagnation of music and movie/video/film production and it seems to maybe tie into this phenomena. I’m also laughing a bit because my daily driver is an 02 new beetle tdi (alongside an 88 f250 with the IH engine). I remember being pretty critical of the new beetles when they first came out but they’re just cheap now and have good reliable engines..
The IH lightline range were pretty well all gasoline powered consumer level vehicles with an agricultural/offroad pedigree. The 345 v8 in a scout is the same engine as IH put in the big yellow school buses, tons of low end torque, if it wasn't for gravity they could climb just about anything. Very easy to work on with a few foibles. The IH full size truck division became Navistar and are a very different breed.
Those early beetles are basically a scirroco floorpan, watch out for the plastic waterpump blade...we had one where that failed with little noise or evidence until steam. Great cars though!
Those early beetles are basically a scirroco floorpan, watch out for the plastic waterpump blade...we had one where that failed with little noise or evidence until steam. Great cars though!
The first vehicle I ever drove was a Travelall back in the late 70s when I was 8 or 9. My great uncle had one on the family farm and it was a beast. Driving that thing up a hill by myself (with my uncle in the passenger seat) on gravel farm road was both scary and exciting.
I understand that the big automakers make a lot of money on the fancy trim packages but I would love a stripped down truck and even more a stripped down light truck. I still miss my '87 Nissan Frontier I had in grad school.
I understand that the big automakers make a lot of money on the fancy trim packages but I would love a stripped down truck and even more a stripped down light truck. I still miss my '87 Nissan Frontier I had in grad school.
My family bought a diesel IH Scout in the 70s. Its probably the worst car I've ever ridden in. 0-60 in an afternoon with a tailwind, horrible suspension, noisy, etc. It was replaced by an early 80s Jeep Cherokee, which was a huge upgrade. So Scout isn't something I'm super nostalgic about..
This made me chuckle, you have a point. Diesels are much much better to drive when turbo charged - I wasn’t alive in the 70s but am curious what the expectations were for passenger vehicles made by a tractor company, it was presumably a “tank” though
In the mid-80s I had a Scout from the mid 60s. It was the most basic vehicle you could imagine. Everything was operated manually. The roof would come off, if you unfastened about 6 bolts. I think it had about 4 instruments, including the gas gauge, which did not work. (I'd check the gas level by opening up the gas cap and rocking the vehicle to listen to the sloshing sounds.) Still, you could fix most anything with very basic tools.
I wish VW good luck. They currently have a reputation for complicated, fragile vehicles so sort of the opposite of my old Scout. Maybe the change to an electric drivetrain will let them move closer to their spiritual ancestor.
I wish VW good luck. They currently have a reputation for complicated, fragile vehicles so sort of the opposite of my old Scout. Maybe the change to an electric drivetrain will let them move closer to their spiritual ancestor.
Good. America's midsize truck options are not super great at the moment. Electrification of the midsize segment has even worse prospects. Toyota & GM are way way way behind the curve
They aren't great because they don't have to be: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax
If more people would lobby their congress critter(s) to repeal the ridiculous chicken tax we might actually see some interesting options in the low end again!
If more people would lobby their congress critter(s) to repeal the ridiculous chicken tax we might actually see some interesting options in the low end again!
>> Now, amid a historic shift to electric vehicles (EVs), VW sees an opportunity to reconnect with U.S. consumers by offering EVs in the segments they care most about: pickup trucks and large SUVs.
>> Scott Keogh, president and CEO of Volkswagen Group of America, will become president and CEO of Scout on Sept. 1
>> He will be succeeded by Pablo Di Si, currently the executive chairman of Volkswagen's South American Region. Di Si will oversee the entire North American region, as did Keogh.
>> Scott Keogh, president and CEO of Volkswagen Group of America, will become president and CEO of Scout on Sept. 1
>> He will be succeeded by Pablo Di Si, currently the executive chairman of Volkswagen's South American Region. Di Si will oversee the entire North American region, as did Keogh.
> Despite its global standing as the world's second-largest carmaker, Volkswagen is a chronic underachiever in the United States.
There is a large community of VW enthusiasts in the US, and yet that market is never treated as anything other than an afterthought by VW.
Despite being 2nd generation VW owner (my dad drove an original beetle, and my first and second vehicles were both Golfs), my next vehicle will be a Ford.
There is a large community of VW enthusiasts in the US, and yet that market is never treated as anything other than an afterthought by VW.
Despite being 2nd generation VW owner (my dad drove an original beetle, and my first and second vehicles were both Golfs), my next vehicle will be a Ford.
I still think it was a massive mistake that VW skipped selling the ID.3 to focus on the ID.4 in the US, assuming all Americans would prefer the SUV-like ID.4. The ID.3 is the true EV successor [0] of the Golf and every American fan of VW that I know loves the Golf and had one or two of them. (I'd consider the ID.3. I don't want an ID.4.)
[0] For a few years they made an "e-Golf" that was batteries badly fit into an unmodified Golf frame. The ID.3 is bespoke EV on the shared MEB architecture.
[0] For a few years they made an "e-Golf" that was batteries badly fit into an unmodified Golf frame. The ID.3 is bespoke EV on the shared MEB architecture.
I would absolutely love a pickup truck that I can use in SF. All the modern ones are absolutely humongous. I had a Titan and that thing was enormous. Cost me absolute bags of money to offset the carbon.
Ultimately, I just want something with a bed that I can strap my bike down and take somewhere to ride. You can't really do that with the Forester I have now.
Ultimately, I just want something with a bed that I can strap my bike down and take somewhere to ride. You can't really do that with the Forester I have now.
Hyundai Santa Cruz and Ford Maverick are two recent models moving in the right direction for those of us who would like to see true mini-pickups return to the US.
They are still huge compared to the original SR-5/Tacoma.
You know that is never coming back right? Safety standards do not allow vehicles of that size and profile.
There are multiple references to the 1st gen Tacomas in this thread and I'm having a hard time understanding why it keeps being brought up. It's a 20-25 year old vehicle
There are multiple references to the 1st gen Tacomas in this thread and I'm having a hard time understanding why it keeps being brought up. It's a 20-25 year old vehicle
It keeps being brought up because there is a pent up demand for them.
Safety standards are BS. If Mazda can and does keep the Miata complaint with safety standards while preserving the bulk of the original Miata soul, then these other manufacturers could do the same with mini trucks.
The real problem is they don't have to. Bigger vehicles have better profit margins, and the chicken tax limits competition. Repeal the chicken tax and you'd see plenty of entrants. Mahindra was even making serious motions of bringing the parts in and assembling here in the US to get around the obnoxious chicken tax but ended up not following through :( They had all the certifications they needed - even from the EPA, so it's far from impossible to have a modern mini truck if the government didn't have their thumb on the market.
Heck Ford has had to do screwy things to try to get around that dumb tariff: https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-ford-tariff-c...
Safety standards are BS. If Mazda can and does keep the Miata complaint with safety standards while preserving the bulk of the original Miata soul, then these other manufacturers could do the same with mini trucks.
The real problem is they don't have to. Bigger vehicles have better profit margins, and the chicken tax limits competition. Repeal the chicken tax and you'd see plenty of entrants. Mahindra was even making serious motions of bringing the parts in and assembling here in the US to get around the obnoxious chicken tax but ended up not following through :( They had all the certifications they needed - even from the EPA, so it's far from impossible to have a modern mini truck if the government didn't have their thumb on the market.
Heck Ford has had to do screwy things to try to get around that dumb tariff: https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-ford-tariff-c...
I think you overestimate this pent up demand. The Santa Cruz sells like shit. The Ridgeline is right there by it
New players don’t come into the US truck market with mini-trucks because they simply don’t sell
New players don’t come into the US truck market with mini-trucks because they simply don’t sell
Both the Santa Cruz and the Ridgeline are unibody. The 1st gen Tacoma was body-on-frame. HUGE difference.
What? How? They have strikingly similar towing and payload. There’s nothing wrong or different about a unibody. It’s actually preferable in a lot of ways for small trucks
Similar towing a payload? A quick search shows a 2017 Ridgeline as having a rated 5,000 pound towing capacity compared to 6,800 for a Toyota Tacoma and 7,700 for a Chevy Colorado. I wouldn’t call that similar. Plus, unless you get the AWD version, it’s front wheel drive! I certainly wouldn’t want to pull a heavy trailer up a hill in the snow with a front wheel drive vehicle.
There’s nothing inherently wrong with a unibody - but it is absolutely different. People who buy trucks in the US typical don’t want a unibody vehicle. As a result, the Ridgeline and Santa Fe are seen more as “big cars with an open cargo area” than as trucks.
There’s nothing inherently wrong with a unibody - but it is absolutely different. People who buy trucks in the US typical don’t want a unibody vehicle. As a result, the Ridgeline and Santa Fe are seen more as “big cars with an open cargo area” than as trucks.
You were talking about the 1st gen tacoma... And now you bring up the 3rd gen...
agree. The small pickups of the late 80s/early 90s were perfect. Just make one electric and id buy it in a heartbeat
Start lobbying your congress critter(s) to repeal the chicken tax. Otherwise it will never happen :(
What trucks could I get and then just pay 25% to import here? The new Audi looks massive too.
>strap my bike down and take somewhere to ride. You can't really do that with the Forester
you mean like $1500 folding Motorcycle trailer? or even cheaper https://www.uhaul.com/Trailers/Motorcycle-Trailer-Rental/MT/
you mean like $1500 folding Motorcycle trailer? or even cheaper https://www.uhaul.com/Trailers/Motorcycle-Trailer-Rental/MT/
Haha that's not a bad option. I suppose I wanted some multi utility. I generally dislike trailers but the bike trailer is actually easier to get bikes onto.
With the popularity of similar looking vehicles, like the new Ford Bronco or the Suzuki Jimny, I'd bet they wouldn't struggle selling a Scout inspired one.
Here's hoping for a tiny, extremely bare bones, affordable, electric truck I can use to haul bikes around!
You'll be able to import one from China. American / European OEMs will not do this. Ever. You don't make money on "no-options" vehicles.
For real - an electric rabbit would be so so so cool
Edit: it actually just looks like a Rivian.. oh well
Edit: it actually just looks like a Rivian.. oh well
Nice, especially since Jeep is discontinuing the 2-door Wrangler, and doesn't make it in electric at all.
Citation? I follow Jeep news very closely and haven’t heard any rumblings of a 2-door cancellation.
Electric seems inevitable, however.
Electric seems inevitable, however.
See http://www.google.com
* "Jeep Ending Wrangler Two-Door Sales In Key Market" [1]
* "Stellantis to Kill the Two-Door Jeep Wrangler in Europe" [2]
* https://www.jeep.com/ Note total absence of 2 door models in pictures.
* Electric available only in 4-door.[3]
[1] https://carbuzz.com/news/jeep-ending-wrangler-two-door-sales...
[2] https://www.autoevolution.com/news/stellantis-to-kill-the-tw...
[3] https://www.jeep.com/bmo.wrangler_4xe.2023.html
* "Jeep Ending Wrangler Two-Door Sales In Key Market" [1]
* "Stellantis to Kill the Two-Door Jeep Wrangler in Europe" [2]
* https://www.jeep.com/ Note total absence of 2 door models in pictures.
* Electric available only in 4-door.[3]
[1] https://carbuzz.com/news/jeep-ending-wrangler-two-door-sales...
[2] https://www.autoevolution.com/news/stellantis-to-kill-the-tw...
[3] https://www.jeep.com/bmo.wrangler_4xe.2023.html
Ah, yes, I tend to forget there’s a world outside the U.S.
I think the electric Wrangler will arrive in time to save the 2-door in the U.S.
I think the electric Wrangler will arrive in time to save the 2-door in the U.S.
The problem is that Stellantis is pushing their hybrid system, and that won't fit in the 2-door platform. They've shown an electric 2-door prototype, but are not shipping it.
Jeep had a huge hit with the mommymobile version of the Wrangler. Before the 4-door, the Jeep Wrangler was mostly a basic vehicle. Now they come with rear seat entertainment systems, far higher prices, and huge markups.
Jeep had a huge hit with the mommymobile version of the Wrangler. Before the 4-door, the Jeep Wrangler was mostly a basic vehicle. Now they come with rear seat entertainment systems, far higher prices, and huge markups.
Agreed that the 4-door turned Jeep into a money-printing machine, but they have managed to keep the Wrangler as close to its roots as regulatorily-possible. I don’t see them giving up on 2 doors without a fight.
(I may be biased because I own two vehicles, both 2-door Wranglers.)
(I may be biased because I own two vehicles, both 2-door Wranglers.)
Hey, VW, give me a Scout.
Because I had a TDI that I had to give up, and I won't get into it, but I was ripped off.
Because I had a TDI that I had to give up, and I won't get into it, but I was ripped off.
That's pretty interesting, and TBH I would probably watch a tie-in post apoc movie featuring Tom Hanks driving around a heavily-kitbashed version of whatever the new Scout is.
The CEO of VW North America is on vacation with his family, sees a restored classic Scout, and falls in love with it. He finds out that coincidentally VW now owns the rights to the Scout brand, so he steps down from his post to start a new Scout subsidiary.