Thoughts on Arc Browser(chrishannah.me)
chrishannah.me
Thoughts on Arc Browser
https://chrishannah.me/arc-browser/
86 comments
A browser revolution isn’t gonna come from remaking an engine to do exactly what Chromium does. Ie render websites.
If they brought some new ideas to it, then maybe. But it’s likely that if a new browser engine did bring some useful new ideas it would be incorporated into chromium well before the other browser engine could achieve a fraction of Chromium’s market share.
Browser revolutions will most likely be built on the front end. By focusing resources on the parts where the browser makers can actually differentiate and not on the part that by definition must have the same output.
If they brought some new ideas to it, then maybe. But it’s likely that if a new browser engine did bring some useful new ideas it would be incorporated into chromium well before the other browser engine could achieve a fraction of Chromium’s market share.
Browser revolutions will most likely be built on the front end. By focusing resources on the parts where the browser makers can actually differentiate and not on the part that by definition must have the same output.
I envision a browser inspired by the likes of foobar2k in which core engines are open source and interchangeable, and any browsing experience is achievable through a rich plugin and layout system. The browser itself would be little more than scaffolding and an SDK.
Isn't this what XUL was? Admitedly I'm aware its arch was too complex to compete with Chromium's speed and security features, but way before Electron, I was using desktop apps built with XUL like Songbird for my music app, as well as a Twitter client whose name I can't recall now (of course, Thunderbird as well). Maybe they threw the baby out with the bath water a little bit by electing to concede to WebExtensions API since now Electron (read: Chromium) is filling exactly the niche that XUL provided.
Yeah, Electron and Chromium fill a close enough niche that I don't think the market is really demanding what I envision.
Try giving foobar2000 a spin or checking out some screenshots to get an idea for what I mean. Unlike Chromium, the browser should be extendable, at runtime, via a component system and editable layout tree. Runtimes, backends, common libs, fonts etc should be managed using a repository system.
Chromium requires recompilation (and know-how) in order to make any big change. Comparatively, a user should be able to completely reskin their browser, switch JavaScript engines, etc. on a per-domain, per-group or per-tab basis in seconds without restarting the browser.
Try giving foobar2000 a spin or checking out some screenshots to get an idea for what I mean. Unlike Chromium, the browser should be extendable, at runtime, via a component system and editable layout tree. Runtimes, backends, common libs, fonts etc should be managed using a repository system.
Chromium requires recompilation (and know-how) in order to make any big change. Comparatively, a user should be able to completely reskin their browser, switch JavaScript engines, etc. on a per-domain, per-group or per-tab basis in seconds without restarting the browser.
There are two things that become harder with such architecture: integration, and security.
Integration is relatively easy to solve. I did not use foobar2000 for a long time; I can compare instead with Emacs, where various packages are aware of various other packages and will integrate if a counterpart is present, but won't require that.
Security is much harder; the need to isolate pages means relatively smaller customizable API surface, and, most importantly, greater trust to the components. It's much like web extensions now: you have to think well before giving an extension access to your web mail or online banking web pages.
XUL was an attempt to build a very flexible architecture, and it was great, but the (lack of) security killed it.
Integration is relatively easy to solve. I did not use foobar2000 for a long time; I can compare instead with Emacs, where various packages are aware of various other packages and will integrate if a counterpart is present, but won't require that.
Security is much harder; the need to isolate pages means relatively smaller customizable API surface, and, most importantly, greater trust to the components. It's much like web extensions now: you have to think well before giving an extension access to your web mail or online banking web pages.
XUL was an attempt to build a very flexible architecture, and it was great, but the (lack of) security killed it.
You can make PWAs of nearly every page. I do this to make 'apps' of Netflix and such. Don't have offline storage though, but at least you don't need the Electron stuff and you decide the extensions it runs (uBlock is a welcome candidate). There's also containers in Firefox.
How do you do this? Do you wrap the website with a PWA-friendly HTML template, then load the desired website in an iframe?
That's more or less what manifest v2 allows for. But, you can use that to block ads. It simply had to go!
I can see Arc somewhat doing this with their "boosts" feature. I imagine they will eventually have something like a marketplace for these, e.g. youtube/twitter without the distracting sidebars.
But to your point the core browsing experience would remain the same. Would be cool if they opened that up to variability though.
But to your point the core browsing experience would remain the same. Would be cool if they opened that up to variability though.
From where I sit, browser engines are commodities. There's not notable differentiation to be had there. Are four actively-developed, open source, mainstream browser engines enough? I think so, given that we haven't seen a downside to a relative monoculture in open source operating systems.
> Are four actively-developed, open source, mainstream browser engines enough? I think so, given that we haven't seen a downside to a relative monoculture
We have a near-monopoly with Chrome, a very distant second Safari, and a nearly non-existent Firefox. Anything else (like Goanna or Flow) have literally zero impact.
Chrome's outsized influence is such that it no longer even pretends to care about consensus or processes at w3c and just ships random features at neck-breaking speed.
We have a near-monopoly with Chrome, a very distant second Safari, and a nearly non-existent Firefox. Anything else (like Goanna or Flow) have literally zero impact.
Chrome's outsized influence is such that it no longer even pretends to care about consensus or processes at w3c and just ships random features at neck-breaking speed.
What features is Chrome shipping that it shouldn't?
The question isn't "should or shouldn't". The question is how.
Web standards are supposed to be based on a) consensus and b) at least two independent implementations.
As an example, let's take a recent Chrome-only non-standard that made HN frontpage, WebTransport: https://web.dev/webtransport/
The status of this API? "Editor's Draft". That is, scribbled on a napkin [1]
--- start quote ---
These drafts have not received formal review and are not endorsed W3C.
These drafts MUST NOT be cited as W3C standards and may or may not become W3C standards.
--- end quote ---
Guess what its status is in Chrome? Already shipped, and advertised as available.
As with other such non-standards expect HN comments decrying other browsers as being "the new IE" because they are in no rush to develop this.
[1] https://www.w3.org/standards/types#ED
Web standards are supposed to be based on a) consensus and b) at least two independent implementations.
As an example, let's take a recent Chrome-only non-standard that made HN frontpage, WebTransport: https://web.dev/webtransport/
The status of this API? "Editor's Draft". That is, scribbled on a napkin [1]
--- start quote ---
These drafts have not received formal review and are not endorsed W3C.
These drafts MUST NOT be cited as W3C standards and may or may not become W3C standards.
--- end quote ---
Guess what its status is in Chrome? Already shipped, and advertised as available.
As with other such non-standards expect HN comments decrying other browsers as being "the new IE" because they are in no rush to develop this.
[1] https://www.w3.org/standards/types#ED
And the worst thing is when you call out Chrome for being the new IE instead[1] you get jousted by your web development peers because their dev tools are so great and other browsers are too slow to implement.
[1] Pushing through (user hostile) apis without consideration about others
[1] Pushing through (user hostile) apis without consideration about others
Which are the four? I count Chromium, Gecko and WebKit.
One day I discovered an independent engine: LibWeb (Ladybird Browser) which is developed from scratch. Quite brillant guys and effort.
Ladybird isn't mainstream. So it doesn't count in this list.
Blink (Chromium) and WebKit are also closely related as the former is a fork of the later.
So there are effectively only two "independent" engines.
But in reality there is actually none. Both engines exist through Google money.
Given that most people can't even tell the difference between the internet and the web (hello, Arc developers!) and the web became the new all encompassing platform (like MS Windows was before) we have here a very dangerous concentration of power. Almost all private computing is controlled end-to-end by Google these days.
If Microsoft got almost split up for having way less power Google is long long overdue for a divestiture. Should this ever happen (I suspect the US would not give up control of personal computing all over the world so it's imho unlikely, but if) everybody would recognize quite fast how bad the mono-culture in the browser space really is…
Blink (Chromium) and WebKit are also closely related as the former is a fork of the later.
So there are effectively only two "independent" engines.
But in reality there is actually none. Both engines exist through Google money.
Given that most people can't even tell the difference between the internet and the web (hello, Arc developers!) and the web became the new all encompassing platform (like MS Windows was before) we have here a very dangerous concentration of power. Almost all private computing is controlled end-to-end by Google these days.
If Microsoft got almost split up for having way less power Google is long long overdue for a divestiture. Should this ever happen (I suspect the US would not give up control of personal computing all over the world so it's imho unlikely, but if) everybody would recognize quite fast how bad the mono-culture in the browser space really is…
Blink has forked from WebKit a long time ago and only diverged since, they should be considered two engines.
WebKit itself forked from KHTML.
WebKit itself forked from KHTML.
I counted Goanna: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goanna_(software)
> It's even less so when I would lose adblocking due to Manifest v3
You don't lose adblocking with MV3. I have been using uBlock Origin Lite since it came out and I have not noticed any difference in actual blocking. I like having adblock extension that has significantly less security or privacy exposure, and I like MV3 provides that.
You don't lose adblocking with MV3. I have been using uBlock Origin Lite since it came out and I have not noticed any difference in actual blocking. I like having adblock extension that has significantly less security or privacy exposure, and I like MV3 provides that.
You already lost some adblocking with MV2 because you are using Chrome where uBO doesn’t support CNAME uncloaking.
EasyPrivacy gets a lot (most?) of the CNAME-cloaked stuff even on Chrome and MV3 because of efforts to detect and incorporate the subdomains into filter lists. AdGuard's public DNS server watches for CNAME cloaking and the subdomains get pushed to a list [1]. Or one could set their DNS to AdGuard and get the CNAME blocking in real time without filter list updates. uBO on Firefox is of course the more flexible solution but along with cosmetic filtering, this kind of thing would make it hard to notice the difference between a really good MV3 blocker and uBO on Firefox.
[1] https://github.com/AdguardTeam/cname-trackers
[1] https://github.com/AdguardTeam/cname-trackers
It’s next to unusable for me, still using Safari + Firefox.
I absolutely love Arc. The way I used chrome was I had a separate window with tabs for relevant workflows instead of one tab with 30 windows. I'd always lose where the tab was and just open a new tab basically until my computer required a reboot. With Arc I have 5 spaces each with the 10 most used tabs pinned. I now have 3 windows, Arc + Slack + Zoom. I know where everything is...
This, 100%. Arc's best feature is eliminating window management if you're the type who keeps a tree of research open, and the command bar means you get to any point in the graph without having to remember 'where did I put that'? Easel and notes behavior is the cherry on top for keeping thoughts together with those branches. It's a much, much more useful superset of behavior that obsoletes bookmarks and multiple windows with various tabs.
But admittedly, this is a very power user feature set that makes it alluring to me, I would expect most people won't find those useful, and tab hoarders in particular will be VERY confused and frustrated when the archive feature vacuums up all the tabs they didn't pin in a space 12 hours after they last looked at it (the default, which can be extended but not disabled).
If you're not that high sprawl but organized type though, and are on macOS, I'd recommend Orion browser[0] if you still want a non-ugly and native vertical tab bar implementation with your browser that also supports webRequest API and is both fast and better with energy use since it uses WebKit. They also have a public bug tracker [1] and a responsive discord.
[0]https://browser.kagi.com/
[1]https://orionfeedback.org/
But admittedly, this is a very power user feature set that makes it alluring to me, I would expect most people won't find those useful, and tab hoarders in particular will be VERY confused and frustrated when the archive feature vacuums up all the tabs they didn't pin in a space 12 hours after they last looked at it (the default, which can be extended but not disabled).
If you're not that high sprawl but organized type though, and are on macOS, I'd recommend Orion browser[0] if you still want a non-ugly and native vertical tab bar implementation with your browser that also supports webRequest API and is both fast and better with energy use since it uses WebKit. They also have a public bug tracker [1] and a responsive discord.
[0]https://browser.kagi.com/
[1]https://orionfeedback.org/
Related:
The Browser Company’s Darin Fisher thinks it’s time to reinvent the browser - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33414565 - Oct 2022 (90 comments)
Arc Browser Company: Chrome and Safari face a new challenger - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31544988 - May 2022 (125 comments)
Others?
The Browser Company’s Darin Fisher thinks it’s time to reinvent the browser - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33414565 - Oct 2022 (90 comments)
Arc Browser Company: Chrome and Safari face a new challenger - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31544988 - May 2022 (125 comments)
Others?
1. You may find interesting https://beamapp.co/. Browser + hypertext note-taking tool (webkit based)
2. I was first engineer at https://meetsidekick.com you may find it interesting too. (as engineer with 14 years of experience in this area ready tell you about best way to architect js app in isolated environments like main/render process of electron, background/view pages in chrome extensions)
3. > I am a big fan of relatively-small websites, personal blogs, and any website that is free of the usual bloat. I'm indie/solo making linkkraft browser (to make a living from it). To let myself observe intensive web in a non-intensive way. It could be useful for someone who make decisions (and money) from processing a lot of information from mass of tabs. (product managers, hr head hunters?)
Linkkraft visualizes your steps as tree and auto-makes html snapshot for your each step. So, you can pause your research confidently (or part of it to free CPU/memory) and restore full context even offline. (Ping me if this would make you effective)
linkkraft tree vs chrome tabs https://arestov.github.io/linkkraft-notes/comparing/linkkraf...
offline snapshots for each step in twitter SPA https://arestov.github.io/linkkraft-notes/trails-tree-plus-o...
2. I was first engineer at https://meetsidekick.com you may find it interesting too. (as engineer with 14 years of experience in this area ready tell you about best way to architect js app in isolated environments like main/render process of electron, background/view pages in chrome extensions)
3. > I am a big fan of relatively-small websites, personal blogs, and any website that is free of the usual bloat. I'm indie/solo making linkkraft browser (to make a living from it). To let myself observe intensive web in a non-intensive way. It could be useful for someone who make decisions (and money) from processing a lot of information from mass of tabs. (product managers, hr head hunters?)
Linkkraft visualizes your steps as tree and auto-makes html snapshot for your each step. So, you can pause your research confidently (or part of it to free CPU/memory) and restore full context even offline. (Ping me if this would make you effective)
linkkraft tree vs chrome tabs https://arestov.github.io/linkkraft-notes/comparing/linkkraf...
offline snapshots for each step in twitter SPA https://arestov.github.io/linkkraft-notes/trails-tree-plus-o...
On the other side of this, I've been using Arc for ~4 months now, and there are definitely quirks, but overall I've been quite happy with it.
One of the primary complaints in the post is password syncing, and I'm not sure that's a fair knock against Arc since it seems like OP would struggle to switch to any browser that's not Safari (and they say as much just generally in the conclusion).
> I use iCloud Keychain for passwords on all of my devices, and of course, my bookmarks are synced via Safari. So when I tried to use Arc, nothing was in sync.
My experience was much better since I use 1Password. The extension was a little clumsy at first, but I gave the feedback and things were improved in the next release and I haven't had any issues since. Really any third party password manager with a Chrome extension should work fine.
Arc is weird, it's a different way of thinking about a browser. I've personally enjoyed it, but I can totally see why others wouldn't. The tl;dr of the post is "if you just want Safari you'll be happier with Safari" and I think that's a totally fair assessment.
One of the primary complaints in the post is password syncing, and I'm not sure that's a fair knock against Arc since it seems like OP would struggle to switch to any browser that's not Safari (and they say as much just generally in the conclusion).
> I use iCloud Keychain for passwords on all of my devices, and of course, my bookmarks are synced via Safari. So when I tried to use Arc, nothing was in sync.
My experience was much better since I use 1Password. The extension was a little clumsy at first, but I gave the feedback and things were improved in the next release and I haven't had any issues since. Really any third party password manager with a Chrome extension should work fine.
Arc is weird, it's a different way of thinking about a browser. I've personally enjoyed it, but I can totally see why others wouldn't. The tl;dr of the post is "if you just want Safari you'll be happier with Safari" and I think that's a totally fair assessment.
Similar here, I've been using Arc for a couple of weeks and I'm pretty happy with it. I really enjoy the way it handles tabs, spaces and profiles.
Personally, I use 1Password for passwords & credit cards, and Raindrops.io for bookmarks, so jumping between browsers were fairly smooth for me.
Personally, I use 1Password for passwords & credit cards, and Raindrops.io for bookmarks, so jumping between browsers were fairly smooth for me.
It's good to see someone enjoying Arc. It's definitely taking a fresh look at what a web browser should be. Just turns out it wasn't for me.
Got invited this summer and was a bit skeptic at first (been trying different browsers on and off for the last couple of years). I knew nothing about the browser and had no real expectations. I have to say I was a bit impressed by the onboarding, the UX, and the attention to detail. (Perhaps because I work in UX)
Thought I'd try it for a week before eventually switching back to Chrome because of some missing feature or functionality – in reality it has been the opposite. I dread using Chrome again, and whenever I'm forced to, it feels like going back in time, but not even in a nostalgic way. Just a sense of "this is what we used before?"
Anyway, I have 5 invites if anyone wants to try it out.
Thought I'd try it for a week before eventually switching back to Chrome because of some missing feature or functionality – in reality it has been the opposite. I dread using Chrome again, and whenever I'm forced to, it feels like going back in time, but not even in a nostalgic way. Just a sense of "this is what we used before?"
Anyway, I have 5 invites if anyone wants to try it out.
in case anyone of you ever come back to this thread lol
https://arc.net/gift/1138fc8b
https://arc.net/gift/1138fc8b
I’d like to try it. Signed myself up, but I’m still waiting for the invite to arrive.
I’d like to try it as well if you still have any invites left. Thanks
Would love to check it out. Email is in my profile.
Giving all my passwords, bookmarks and possibly browser history and credit card information to a closed source browser from an unknown company sounds too risky for me. How do they even plan to make money?
That's a good point about monetisation. I did wonder how they plan on making money, but to be honest, I didn't do much research on that topic.
I asked this question through their in product feedback form and got this response:
> Arc is currently free, and we'll always have some version of the product that is free. In the future, we'll charge for premium and team features.
> Arc is currently free, and we'll always have some version of the product that is free. In the future, we'll charge for premium and team features.
I would suspect the easiest way would be the way Mozilla does.
Search engine kickbacks and clearly defined ads on the new tab/page links.
Search engine kickbacks and clearly defined ads on the new tab/page links.
[deleted]
The command palette is a feature I've been enjoying and wishing I could use in chrome on my work laptop. Another is using 'shift-cmd-c' to copy the current URL, small feature but one of my favorites!
I don't use easels because I'm afraid of the company folding and me losing all my notes/easels. I wish they had something like Obsidian's set-up where it auto-generates .md files in a folder.
I'll always welcome new browsers, even if they are just wrapped versions of Chromium. Another similar concept is https://sail.online/, they're doing the superhuman type onboarding but it's interesting, would describe it as a collaborative browser on a spatial canvas.
I don't use easels because I'm afraid of the company folding and me losing all my notes/easels. I wish they had something like Obsidian's set-up where it auto-generates .md files in a folder.
I'll always welcome new browsers, even if they are just wrapped versions of Chromium. Another similar concept is https://sail.online/, they're doing the superhuman type onboarding but it's interesting, would describe it as a collaborative browser on a spatial canvas.
Had to get used to it initially, but now I really love Arc. On other browsers I always used to bookmark things and never look at them again, because it's such a hassle to remember where you put something. The 3-tier system of pinned items (frequently used apps like youtube, discord, slack etc), pinned items per space, and then normal tabs works great.
I do think Arc will remain a niche browser though, because to get the most out of it you really need to use the command palette and I don't think the average user will bother with that.
I do think Arc will remain a niche browser though, because to get the most out of it you really need to use the command palette and I don't think the average user will bother with that.
I knew I was a distractible person, but I never realised the degree to which having the URL and tabs at the top of my browser was a drag on my productivity until I began using Arc. Now, I basically always keep Arc in focus mode and it has had a really positive impact on my concentration. There are definitely things about the browser that bother me, but this one benefit has been enough to make it my new default.
That's interesting. Not seeing the address bar and tabs were a negative for me.
Tested it. Moved back to Brave. Wish I can hide the url field on chrome based browsers. This is the only thing that I like in Arc.
In my view the problem with Arc is the UX. It is hidden and complex and as a result lacks a natural discovery flow.
It seems targeted towards the small audience of specialists which will have no problem giving a lot of their data.
And I hate the size of the borders:) Make them small or remove them completely.
In my view the problem with Arc is the UX. It is hidden and complex and as a result lacks a natural discovery flow.
It seems targeted towards the small audience of specialists which will have no problem giving a lot of their data.
And I hate the size of the borders:) Make them small or remove them completely.
What's the point in writing about software which I can't download and install and Try button leads to some e-mail spam?
Satisfied Vivaldi user
Satisfied Vivaldi user
I've been trying on and off to give Arc a try for the past few months. I've had trouble for all the reasons that the linked article names.
What brought me around was the Easel feature for scrapbooking pieces of multiple web pages onto a single page. For some kinds of research, being able to see everything at once beats anything I've been able to do with multiple tabs or window arrangements. I used to arrange screenshots onto a photo editor's canvas, but doing it in-browser is an easier workflow, and Arc makes it easy to get back from the clipping to the source.
I believe that Beam is similar to this feature, except (pro) better support for daily notes, and (pro and/or con) clippings are in a list instead of arranged in 2D.
That fact that these blocks can optionally be live also makes it useful for constructing ad-hoc dashboards.
[1] "Arc | Collect Your Internet with Easel" https://youtu.be/ukquBSOpmTk
What brought me around was the Easel feature for scrapbooking pieces of multiple web pages onto a single page. For some kinds of research, being able to see everything at once beats anything I've been able to do with multiple tabs or window arrangements. I used to arrange screenshots onto a photo editor's canvas, but doing it in-browser is an easier workflow, and Arc makes it easy to get back from the clipping to the source.
I believe that Beam is similar to this feature, except (pro) better support for daily notes, and (pro and/or con) clippings are in a list instead of arranged in 2D.
That fact that these blocks can optionally be live also makes it useful for constructing ad-hoc dashboards.
[1] "Arc | Collect Your Internet with Easel" https://youtu.be/ukquBSOpmTk
I've been using Edge on Windows, macOS, and Android for the past year or so and have been really happy with it. I signed up for Arc and haven't gotten an invite yet but, looking at this article, it doesn't really seem to be that much of a game changer? At least not as much as the pretentiousness of "The Browser Company of New York" (gag) would have you think.
Edge has vertical tabs with the exact same "pinned tab" system. You can also switch back to horizontal tabs if you so wish. It also has tab grouping, password/history/extension syncing etc. etc. With the huge added bonus that it's available on all of my machines and phones, syncing across all of them (and giving what I'm sure is an uncomfortable amount of data to MSFT...)
The only "missing" feature would be the command bar which, even as a "browser power user", I don't see any use for. How is it any better than the usual omnibox?
Edge has vertical tabs with the exact same "pinned tab" system. You can also switch back to horizontal tabs if you so wish. It also has tab grouping, password/history/extension syncing etc. etc. With the huge added bonus that it's available on all of my machines and phones, syncing across all of them (and giving what I'm sure is an uncomfortable amount of data to MSFT...)
The only "missing" feature would be the command bar which, even as a "browser power user", I don't see any use for. How is it any better than the usual omnibox?
Edge is nice but it’s extremely invasive. Brave is a great drop-in replacement that prioritizes privacy without sacrificing features that people love from chromium browsers.
Maybe I'll give Brave another try. I don't really mind the invasiveness of Edge, but I know I'm kind of an outlier on Hacker News in that regard.
LOL. They wrapped Chrome, made it IE, and called it a revolution.
Have never tried arc. Commenting on the article, not the browser.
> For a moment I was mesmerised by its features, how it behaved, and the quirkiness of it.
I think the most important job for a browser is to stay in the background and let the user focus on the website. Chrome does this beautifully. It's elegant, but not eye-catching. It takes up little space for its own UI, and leaves most space to the website.
> At the start, I would use the command bar to quickly make a web search, open a new tab, (try to) launch an existing tab by entering the name of the page, and even perform actions like pinning the current tab.
These are all things you can already do in the addressbar, except for opening a new tab, which is just as easy as opening the command bar.
> For a moment I was mesmerised by its features, how it behaved, and the quirkiness of it.
I think the most important job for a browser is to stay in the background and let the user focus on the website. Chrome does this beautifully. It's elegant, but not eye-catching. It takes up little space for its own UI, and leaves most space to the website.
> At the start, I would use the command bar to quickly make a web search, open a new tab, (try to) launch an existing tab by entering the name of the page, and even perform actions like pinning the current tab.
These are all things you can already do in the addressbar, except for opening a new tab, which is just as easy as opening the command bar.
> I think the most important job for a browser is to stay in the background and let the user focus on the website.
Actually, this is my favorite part about Arc. Most of the time when using Arc I'm working in fullscreen mode with 100% of the UI hidden. There is literally zero on my screen except the page itself. If I mouseover to the left (or hit cmd-S) I can see the sidebar/addressbar etc.
It's absolutely wonderful and really puts the focus on the content. I find it much better than how Chrome handles fullscreen.
Actually, this is my favorite part about Arc. Most of the time when using Arc I'm working in fullscreen mode with 100% of the UI hidden. There is literally zero on my screen except the page itself. If I mouseover to the left (or hit cmd-S) I can see the sidebar/addressbar etc.
It's absolutely wonderful and really puts the focus on the content. I find it much better than how Chrome handles fullscreen.
If you haven't tried, after you use Cmd-Ctrl-F to make Chrome fullscreen you can use Cmd-Shift-F to toggle the UI elements (tabs, search bar & bookmark bar). Although it doesn't follow your mouse hover which is somehow annoying.
fullscreen != fullwindow
Cmd+s in Arc just hides all the UI of the browser but does not change the size of the window frame. This is more akin to Chrome's add shortcut to desktop feature, except that it is easy to toggle on/off with a keyboard shortcut. So if you have a web app you want to just focus on, you can just do so.
Cmd+s in Arc just hides all the UI of the browser but does not change the size of the window frame. This is more akin to Chrome's add shortcut to desktop feature, except that it is easy to toggle on/off with a keyboard shortcut. So if you have a web app you want to just focus on, you can just do so.
Interesting. I'm not happy with how Chrome handles fullscreen either.
> I think the most important job for a browser is to stay in the background and let the user focus on the website.
Incidentally, this is why I love the macOS Safari "Compact Tabs" feature [0] -- this is the most compact browser UI I've come across.
[0] https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/21/22686070/apple-macos-safa...
Incidentally, this is why I love the macOS Safari "Compact Tabs" feature [0] -- this is the most compact browser UI I've come across.
[0] https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/21/22686070/apple-macos-safa...
I love that it deletes all the tabs I've opened and not interacted with recently. I needed that in my life. When FF incorporates that and putting tabs on the side, I'll switch back. I don't really care about the rest Arc's got going on.
Tree style tab [0] exists, and you can change Firefox's userChrome.css [1] to hide the tab bar. To make old tabs sleep (not quite delete, but close), use Auto Tab Discard [2].
0 - https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tree-style-ta...
1 - https://gist.github.com/akersten/8fa7d36960b10c5ae18c01ada3d...
2 - https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/auto-tab-disc...
0 - https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tree-style-ta...
1 - https://gist.github.com/akersten/8fa7d36960b10c5ae18c01ada3d...
2 - https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/auto-tab-disc...
I don't use extensions
You should. The extensions mentioned by parent comment are mozilla 'recommended'. i.e. manually reviewed and vetted by Mozilla.
Command palette is a feature I miss in my current browser. Though there's probably some Alfred extension for it, I use Firefox on macOS, Linux, Android, and Windows. There's Plotinus [1] for Gtk3 (Linux) but that won't work on Gtk4, nor is it cross-platform.
Firefox also has a sidebar (I use TTS extension) and permanent pages (Pins) as well as containers e.g. against FAMAG tracking. TTS has themes. Its a bit annoying hiding top tabs but it can be done with some CSS.
[1] https://github.com/p-e-w/plotinus/issues/45
Firefox also has a sidebar (I use TTS extension) and permanent pages (Pins) as well as containers e.g. against FAMAG tracking. TTS has themes. Its a bit annoying hiding top tabs but it can be done with some CSS.
[1] https://github.com/p-e-w/plotinus/issues/45
> Command palette is a feature I miss in my current browser.
Vimium[0] has something like it with `shift+T`(searches active tabs) and `shift+O`/`o`(searches bookmarks, history, and active tabs).
0: https://vimium.github.io/
Vimium[0] has something like it with `shift+T`(searches active tabs) and `shift+O`/`o`(searches bookmarks, history, and active tabs).
0: https://vimium.github.io/
Is there interest in a similarly innovative/functional browser that wraps WebKit for iOS/iPadOS/macOS? I see people complain about wrapping Chrome but don't know if the Apple ecosystem community values this.
You’re looking for Orion:
https://browser.kagi.com/
https://blog.kagi.com/orion-features/
https://browser.kagi.com/
https://blog.kagi.com/orion-features/
Thank you, maybe there is a market for this
As I understand, everybody shipping a browser for ios and ipados is wrapping webkit because apple requires that it be that way.
yes but all the popular ones i've seen which have both macos and ios treat ios as an unfortunate 2nd class citizen rather than a flagship experience
> For a moment I was mesmerised by its features, how it behaved, and the quirkiness of it. Maybe it was because it was the new and shiny toy I wanted to play with. Regardless, the way in which I want to use a web browser doesn't quite fit with Arc.
I had the same thing - at first you enjoy and admire it, but after a while it becomes uncomfortable and I went back to Safari - and it was like putting on my most comfortable shoes
I had the same thing - at first you enjoy and admire it, but after a while it becomes uncomfortable and I went back to Safari - and it was like putting on my most comfortable shoes
It seems like another Flock browser - interesting but meh.
Chrome has won the wars, even Microsoft saw the writing on the wall and making it better (I personally like Edge) - it is time to move on to solving interesting problems and not the same low hanging fruit like crypto blockchain, another overcomplicated JS framework or another replacement for C++.
Chrome has won the wars, even Microsoft saw the writing on the wall and making it better (I personally like Edge) - it is time to move on to solving interesting problems and not the same low hanging fruit like crypto blockchain, another overcomplicated JS framework or another replacement for C++.
I mean, it’s fine to have other opinions, but seriously? Safari for “heavy”/professional usage?
I personally love Arc and their dedication to add features that you would need a chrome extension for any of them.
I keep waiting for the invite... it's becoming pathetic, honestly! Why would desktop software want to use an invite system?! It makes zero sense! And worst of all, to make people wait for months!
This idea has been on product hunt at least once before. Just different wrapper. Can’t remember the name. It looks neat and I’ll give it a shot, even though it isn’t exactly “new”
[deleted]
I've 5 invites left: https://arc.net/gift/c5adb5f4
Edit: Gone
Edit: Gone
I still haven't got my invite :l
5 invites if anyone need:
edit: gone
edit: gone
A true browser revolution would be something written from scratch like the recent SerenityOS one. Of course, the average person won't use it, but that's what it would take to truly be revolutionary. In the meantime I'll continue using Firefox.