How the Chick-fil-A Cauliflower Sandwich was created(chick-fil-a.com)
chick-fil-a.com
How the Chick-fil-A Cauliflower Sandwich was created
https://www.chick-fil-a.com/stories/inside-chick-fil-a/creating-the-cauliflower-sandwich
79 comments
There's a very weird asterisk about it not being considered vegetarian. I would understand it not being vegan with the bun and all, but how did they manage to incorporate meat products into a cauliflower sandwhich?
This article (https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/national-international/chick-fil...) says it is because they include milk and eggs, which doesn't make sense, because while vegans avoid those, vegetarians eat milk and eggs. However, the article also says they don't have any designated area for prep, so your cauliflower may touch chicken or may share a fryer with chicken.
*Some vegetarians eat eggs and/or milk.
As an aside, I can kinda understand vegetarians eating eggs because chickens will just lay them and you either eat them or they rot, but vegetarians who eat milk have no moral ground to stand on.
As an aside, I can kinda understand vegetarians eating eggs because chickens will just lay them and you either eat them or they rot, but vegetarians who eat milk have no moral ground to stand on.
I have a friend who won't eat any animal which has died for religious reasons.
She eats plenty of dairy, as nothing died, and considers herself vegetarian. She has in fact never eaten meat once in her life yet you have entirely discounted her moral standing.
Your argument sounds a lot like No True Scotsman.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
She eats plenty of dairy, as nothing died, and considers herself vegetarian. She has in fact never eaten meat once in her life yet you have entirely discounted her moral standing.
Your argument sounds a lot like No True Scotsman.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
You can’t win. People have different beliefs. Some will tell you, vociferously.
In order for the cow to produce milk there needs to be veal…
Speaking as a vegetarian myself.
Speaking as a vegetarian myself.
I just think that the condemnation of others who one considers less pure than is ideal is extremely counterproductive.
For example, I often imagine what our carbon budget (and theoretical karma budget) would look like if we could get more people who are pro-animal welfare (and people who are concerned with climate change,) to accept the idea that getting a few billion people to eat less beef might be more beneficial than getting a few million to eat no beef.
There is a really interesting paper on this topic which often comes to mind titled "The seductions of clarity." [0]
There is also an interview by Sean Carrol with the author of that paper titled "C. Thi Nguyen on Games, Art, Values, and Agency" [1]
[0] https://philarchive.org/rec/NGUTSO-2
[1] https://www.preposterousuniverse.com/podcast/2021/10/18/169-...
For example, I often imagine what our carbon budget (and theoretical karma budget) would look like if we could get more people who are pro-animal welfare (and people who are concerned with climate change,) to accept the idea that getting a few billion people to eat less beef might be more beneficial than getting a few million to eat no beef.
There is a really interesting paper on this topic which often comes to mind titled "The seductions of clarity." [0]
There is also an interview by Sean Carrol with the author of that paper titled "C. Thi Nguyen on Games, Art, Values, and Agency" [1]
[0] https://philarchive.org/rec/NGUTSO-2
[1] https://www.preposterousuniverse.com/podcast/2021/10/18/169-...
Not technically true, although the reality of how the industry works means that the offspring of dairy cows are often used to make veal.
A cow must get pregnant to begin producing milk, but because we breed dairy cows for milk they produce much more than the calf needs anyway. Male calves are doomed either way to be slaughtered by the realities of how the industry works, but there is no requirement that things be this way.
Eggs are similar in that they don't technically require any particular cruelty, but the realities of how the industry functions means that male chicks are killed shortly after birth. Again, it need not be this way.
One view of how this informs our diet is that eating eggs and dairy are not necessarily cruel, they are just cruel in practice. Whereas meat consumption necessitates the killing of animals.
A cow must get pregnant to begin producing milk, but because we breed dairy cows for milk they produce much more than the calf needs anyway. Male calves are doomed either way to be slaughtered by the realities of how the industry works, but there is no requirement that things be this way.
Eggs are similar in that they don't technically require any particular cruelty, but the realities of how the industry functions means that male chicks are killed shortly after birth. Again, it need not be this way.
One view of how this informs our diet is that eating eggs and dairy are not necessarily cruel, they are just cruel in practice. Whereas meat consumption necessitates the killing of animals.
I don't drink milk (I don't like it), but I do eat meat. But I totally agree that the dairy industry is pretty grim, even here in the UK where we have pretty good animal rights.
Loads of calves die to supply milk, and cows are kept in a near permanent state of either being in milk (and missing their calves) or pregnant.
I really don't mind what anyone eats or drinks - but anyone who claims to be vegetarian 'because of the animals' - but then consumes dairy, is on pretty weak ground.
Loads of calves die to supply milk, and cows are kept in a near permanent state of either being in milk (and missing their calves) or pregnant.
I really don't mind what anyone eats or drinks - but anyone who claims to be vegetarian 'because of the animals' - but then consumes dairy, is on pretty weak ground.
India manages to be the world's largest milk producer without veal.
It’s possible to do something for moral reasons and have some measure of hypocrisy in how consistently we apply those moral principles. That doesn’t mean the effort in doing so was a waste, or that it would be better to not have tried! Let’s not let perfect be the enemy of good.
Will drink as much milk as I like and keep calling myself vegetarian thanks.
Eggs aren't a good choice either by that reasoning unless you go way out of your way to ensure they come from a source that treats their chickens well. Chickens in general are very poorly treated.
not a vegetarian but
“McPlant”, a 100% plant based burger from McDonalds (might be a Netherlands-specific thing) has the same caveat and it’s because they cook the plant burger in the same kitchen as all regular meat products and they don’t want to guarantee that there won’t cross-contamination.
I think that for many vegetarians, that’s good enough. But not for all of them of course.
I think that for many vegetarians, that’s good enough. But not for all of them of course.
UK BK Vegan Bakon King is a chickenoid thingy deep fried with the chips, hence vegan. It’s edible! and has supplanted ur-chicken on our occasional dinner-and-a-show car wash outings.
Why? Why not? Considering how mass food animals are treated, fed, medicated and processed. My understanding is the chicken flavor is exogenous anyway, the flesh a near-flavorless substrate for lab-made enhancement.
Why? Why not? Considering how mass food animals are treated, fed, medicated and processed. My understanding is the chicken flavor is exogenous anyway, the flesh a near-flavorless substrate for lab-made enhancement.
I believe the target market for this sandwich is larger than just vegan/vegetarian and should include the general health conscious crowd. I imagine there’s a number of people who don’t eat Chick-fil-A because it’s not healthy. This sandwich be a way to tap into that audience. I personally eat meat, but often eat veggie burgers and other plant based burgers because (most of the time) it’s healthier (and I enjoy the taste).
If you're health conscious, you won't eat deep-fried anything. It's not like deep-fried cauliflower is more healthy than grilled chicken breast.
I don’t think many health conscious people would even be thinking of eating at this place. Highly processed white bread with unnaturally thick highly processed batter on a small amount of vegetable cooked in god knows what oil that has probably been heated so high it has hydrogenated and turned into trans-fat… it sounds like a glycemic insulin spike artery destroying nightmare death food.
“Conscious” doesn’t mean they know anything, but they think about it and will drop $7 for deep fired blended cauliflower.
Thank you for adding this. I should have included this in my original comment.
These fast food chains are using the meatless options as a marketing ploy for people to believe there is a healthier option. It likely is healthier than the 840 calorie fried chicken with fries, but that doesn’t mean it’s healthy.
People like to believe they are health conscious. That’s why they order a 1200 calorie salad when they go to Apple Bees.
These fast food chains are using the meatless options as a marketing ploy for people to believe there is a healthier option. It likely is healthier than the 840 calorie fried chicken with fries, but that doesn’t mean it’s healthy.
People like to believe they are health conscious. That’s why they order a 1200 calorie salad when they go to Apple Bees.
It has eggs in the recipe. It is mentioned here:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/food/2023/02/09/chick-f...
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/food/2023/02/09/chick-f...
That's not what your source says tho, eggs are vegetarian
The key part is:
> But it is not isolated in our kitchens. We have chicken all day, every day, and that's not going away, so we want to be very candid and open and honest with our customers."
The key part is:
> But it is not isolated in our kitchens. We have chicken all day, every day, and that's not going away, so we want to be very candid and open and honest with our customers."
I think this is key too:
> "This is made with cauliflower, pickles, bread, milk and eggs. If that works for your definition of vegetarian, awesome," Neslage said.
I know vegetarians that won’t eat eggs.
> "This is made with cauliflower, pickles, bread, milk and eggs. If that works for your definition of vegetarian, awesome," Neslage said.
I know vegetarians that won’t eat eggs.
I know vegetarians who eat fish and/or chicken so...
The conventional definition concerns animal meat and by-products of animal slaughter, but many people do whatever they want
There are many subtypes of vegetarianism but only a few skip eggs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Comparison_of_vegetar...
The conventional definition concerns animal meat and by-products of animal slaughter, but many people do whatever they want
There are many subtypes of vegetarianism but only a few skip eggs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Comparison_of_vegetar...
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Most likely it is fried in animal fats.
First mainstream fast food restaurant to go back on this being a bad idea and offering “non vegetarian fries” is going to financially obliterate restaurants chasing the vegan meme.
Once you’ve tasted what you’ve been missing with tallow and dripping fries the rest taste like trash.
Once you’ve tasted what you’ve been missing with tallow and dripping fries the rest taste like trash.
So what you're saying is that big corporations run by some of the greediest people on the planet have somehow failed to recognize this? Or do you just think they are using plant based oils out of the goodness of their hearts?
Plant based oils ARE the chase to the bottom you're implying about.
Shipping one inferior product so make sure vegetarians/vegans order your fries at the expense of taste for everyone.
My suggestion requires integrity/vision to know that either having to ship two products or forfeit the sales of a group of people for the betterment of the product will fill a gap in the market.
Shipping one inferior product so make sure vegetarians/vegans order your fries at the expense of taste for everyone.
My suggestion requires integrity/vision to know that either having to ship two products or forfeit the sales of a group of people for the betterment of the product will fill a gap in the market.
Chick-fil-a fries in peanut oil, although I bet it would be awesome if they fried in animal fats.
I expect it’s because they fry in the same oil as the chicken.
I expect it’s because they fry in the same oil as the chicken.
One of the reasons McDonald's fries used to be so loved was because they were fried in beef tallow. That went away in the 80s/90s, they're just not the same now.
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They probably don't want to have to deal with all the animal rights ideologues nitpicking them and starting drama, so they're just saying they don't care about the politics, and they can mean that by saying it's not vegetarian, so eat it if you want, otherwise go somewhere else.
This looks great. Good call on not making yet another plant based meat.
I appreciate that it’s a whole cauliflower. In this plant food craze, it’s often lost on people that whole vegetables are better than processed patties.
Now, the fact that it is deep fried and full of preservatives is a whole other story.
Now, the fact that it is deep fried and full of preservatives is a whole other story.
I wouldn't say it's filled with preservatives. The ingredients list for the bun lists calcium propionate which is considered a safer preservative. The pickles have potassium sorbate which you can always ask not to include. The batter they use does not appear to have any preservatives.
Ah, I didn't know that. Thanks.
Like most vegetables, cauliflower contains almost no protein. The sandwich probably tastes great, but cauliflower doesn't make any sense as a nutritional substitute for chicken.
Do you have any references for the claim that: "it’s often lost on people that whole vegetables are better than processed patties"? Sounds like a baseless generalisation.
preservatives? Do you just mean salt?
Not all preservatives are created equal: nitrates, nitrites, benzoates, and propionics. But in this case probably just salt.
Salt is pretty much what makes "processed foods" processed.
Source: I asked a nutritionist
Source: I asked a nutritionist
At what point does an "interview" become less an interview and more of an advertisement? Because that's what this post feels like to me.
There are news articles about this too. I agree, it’s marketing-y, but at least provides some insight and is from the original source.
The most interesting bit in all this is really just the mere fact of a fast food chain making a fried vegetable sandwich.
Many people here seem very interested in food generally and meat alternatives in particular. For me, cooking is one of my favorite recreational hacking opportunities.
The most interesting bit in all this is really just the mere fact of a fast food chain making a fried vegetable sandwich.
Many people here seem very interested in food generally and meat alternatives in particular. For me, cooking is one of my favorite recreational hacking opportunities.
Funny. I was thinking similar. This sandwich is being trialed in three markets. But I wonder how many ppl have bebeen triggered and now thought* "Today is a good day for Chick-fil-a"?
*not necessarily on HN, but everywhere.
*not necessarily on HN, but everywhere.
I mean, it is on their own website?
I do not see it listed here: https://www.chick-fil-a.com/nutrition-allergens
This page says that the nutritional information will be available in 3-10 days. https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2023/02/10/where-to-buy-chick-fil...
This page says that the nutritional information will be available in 3-10 days. https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2023/02/10/where-to-buy-chick-fil...
Maybe they should focus on providing adequate traffic control for their locations rather than causing traffic jams and delays for people who are trying to use public rights-of-way.
The CFA’s I’ve been to all manage their traffic very well. The line is just that long.
I truly do not understand the mad traffic at these locations. I tried it, seems no better or worse than chicken products at other fast food chains.
What am I missing?
What am I missing?
They have reasonable kids meals which attracts parents to them over other fast food options, Good fruit options etc. and instead of toys they give either activities or a book.
It's like apple. Chick filet managed to market to the masses while feeling upscale.
Is it possible that they have succeeded at providing a product at a price to quality ratio that many people find acceptable?
You're missing the virtue signaling of eating at Chick-fil-A. People see it as a wholesome Southern option that sticks to the hardworking America of yesteryear morals. IE no gays, overt Christianity, and limited minorities or immigrants up front.
Don't go to Chick-fil-A. Its not morally worth it.
Don't go to Chick-fil-A. Its not morally worth it.
Without needing to resort to racist slander like you did, I can tell you why chick-fil-a rules:
- employees are friendly and work quickly
- the food tastes great and costs no more than other fast food
- the food is healthier than other fast food
When I go to a place like Mcdonalds or Burger King, the employees are typically angry, mean, rude, and work slowly. And I get a pile of slop that obviously reduces my lifespan.
- employees are friendly and work quickly
- the food tastes great and costs no more than other fast food
- the food is healthier than other fast food
When I go to a place like Mcdonalds or Burger King, the employees are typically angry, mean, rude, and work slowly. And I get a pile of slop that obviously reduces my lifespan.
Overt Christianity, I guess. They tend to have contemporary Christian music playing softly as background music, and have occasional signage with a scripture on it, but it’s not like you are going to a church service. If you weren’t looking for it, you might not even notice it.
However in my experience literally everything else you listed is completely inaccurate. People in the south eat at Chick-fil-A because they like Chick-fil-A food. I see all sorts of people eating there. It’s remarkably diverse.
However in my experience literally everything else you listed is completely inaccurate. People in the south eat at Chick-fil-A because they like Chick-fil-A food. I see all sorts of people eating there. It’s remarkably diverse.
I go there because the food is great and the workers are friendly and welcoming
Remember when you'd use a company just because they provided a good product or service? I guess now they have to align with your political views.
I often wonder when I see a car with progressive/left bumper stickers in the Chick-Fil-A drivethrough if there was an internal voice debate over whether or not they should buy the forbidden chicken.
I have hope that delicious chicken biscuits may be the thing that is able to transcend partisan politics.
I have hope that delicious chicken biscuits may be the thing that is able to transcend partisan politics.
Good products and hospitality transcend most problems for most people. There will be some that cannot get past their ego.
When companies share their owners beliefs, yes, they've brought politics and religion into the purchase process. I haven't asked them, they've made a public stance. I can't ignore it without giving up my personal morals, which I won't do for a fast food chicken sandwich.
Besides the one interview with the owner stating his Christian beliefs (because he was asked), how else do they share their beliefs?
Took the fast food industry years to figure out you can use vegetables instead of coming up with ultra processed "fake meat" alternatives, wow
Hopefully one day they'll discover black beans patties, but that's very high tech and requires cutting edge technology
Hopefully one day they'll discover black beans patties, but that's very high tech and requires cutting edge technology
Wimpy’s spicy bean burger ftw - https://wimpy.uk.com/food-stories/like-scrunchies-and-leg-wa...
Many places used some kind of vegetable patty long before the invention of modern meat substitutes. They choose to use the modern meat substitutes because people prefer the taste of them.
Is it about taste. Or is it that they are seem has hip, and thus marketed in big way so they can try to get more customers?
Some people prefer the taste of them.
Not personally a fan of Chick-fil-A, but damn am I glad someone made a cauliflower sandwich. One of my favorite burger joints growing up would deep-fry cauliflower, and I remember wanting to put it on a bun so bad when I was a kid.
It's not health food, but this is one of the few veggies I'd happily eat over chicken.
It's not health food, but this is one of the few veggies I'd happily eat over chicken.
Deep fried veggies on a bun.
Glad to see a non over-processed alternative to meat being offered.
But is this the best they can do? Or is the brand too strong, and expectations such that there's no room for moving any further?
Glad to see a non over-processed alternative to meat being offered.
But is this the best they can do? Or is the brand too strong, and expectations such that there's no room for moving any further?
Good point chick-fil-a, no one said vegetarian food had to be healthy!
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Ghost broccoli.