Andy Jassey Calls for Amazon to Return to Office(fortune.com)
fortune.com
Andy Jassey Calls for Amazon to Return to Office
https://fortune.com/2023/02/17/amazon-andy-jassy-return-to-office-may-1/
29 comments
I don’t know how to quantify it but I have definitely noticed an increase in productivity. I don’t need my whole team in the office but a few key people once a week was a game changer.
If there's an increase in productivity you should be able to point to it. Otherwise you may just be interpreting "I see people talking" as being "I'm seeing collaboration happening" - essentially experiencing confirmation bias or similar.
this has been my experience as well.
Have you even been on a video call?
The fact information flows at best 50% speed because of delays, lack of mannerisms and that one person at once can speak and a 2 second gap ends up happening between each statement this slowness is completely tangible to anyone who has tried to get work done with this trash tech.
IRL communication that takes seconds to minutes takes 30-40 minutes over a video call.
The fact information flows at best 50% speed because of delays, lack of mannerisms and that one person at once can speak and a 2 second gap ends up happening between each statement this slowness is completely tangible to anyone who has tried to get work done with this trash tech.
IRL communication that takes seconds to minutes takes 30-40 minutes over a video call.
... yes, of course I have been. I have not lived in a magical fairy land for the last few years. From that you can go "oh, maybe the issues I personally have communicating online don't apply to everyone else" rather than saying that I have no experience with what I'm talking about.
> IRL communication that takes seconds to minutes takes 30-40 minutes over a video call.
That sounds like you have communication issues, not technical ones. If it's something that's going to take just a couple of seconds, why are you having a meeting about it? Why are you not just using irc/slack? It _sounds_ like you're saying that you want to return to the office because if everyone is in the office you can just interrupt other people whenever you have a question - which is one of the single most annoying things about being in the office.
> IRL communication that takes seconds to minutes takes 30-40 minutes over a video call.
That sounds like you have communication issues, not technical ones. If it's something that's going to take just a couple of seconds, why are you having a meeting about it? Why are you not just using irc/slack? It _sounds_ like you're saying that you want to return to the office because if everyone is in the office you can just interrupt other people whenever you have a question - which is one of the single most annoying things about being in the office.
>That sounds like you have communication issues
Cool victim blaming to justify you wanting to sleep in or ignore your coworkers.
If I implied you had laziness issues you’d fly off the handle but you’re happy to imply a whole host of mental, competence or physical issues to my communication just because I pointed out video chat has a delay. Think that speaks volumes you’re so gratuitously defensive. I pointed out objective facts you lashed back.
Cool victim blaming to justify you wanting to sleep in or ignore your coworkers.
If I implied you had laziness issues you’d fly off the handle but you’re happy to imply a whole host of mental, competence or physical issues to my communication just because I pointed out video chat has a delay. Think that speaks volumes you’re so gratuitously defensive. I pointed out objective facts you lashed back.
I’ve found onboarding of new employees to be far more effective in person where you can both see the same screen. Also, while I’ve never actually worked some place that did pair programming, there were a decent number of companies where that was the norm prepandemic and I would argue there’s never been a virtual equivalent that had the same benefits.
> IRL communication that takes seconds to minutes takes 30-40 minutes over a video call.
I know this is hyperbole, but I would seriously question the communication skills of anyone who pretends that in person meetings are indispensable.
I know this is hyperbole, but I would seriously question the communication skills of anyone who pretends that in person meetings are indispensable.
Pretty much everyone I communicate with is spread out over a great number of locations. Going back to "the office" would mean I did video calls from the office (annoying other people).
"I can't find a room, can we talk tomorrow instead?"
You seem to be in rather shitty video calls. This has not been my experience for ~90% of calls in the last year.
I think this would be an extremely difficult thing to study. Many executive leaders aren't worried about the kind of "rote productivity" metrics that are easily quantifiable. They're worried about a lack of the kind of brainstorming/cultural knowledge sharing/serendipitous insights that occur when people are together and a crucial part of innovation. That is something much more difficult to measure.
One study I am aware of (but would have to hunt to find it) found that one of the most critical factors for forming new friendships was frequent, unstructured/unpanned time together. That's a big reason why so many folks form some of their closest friendships in college. Friendships and business relationships aren't exactly the same thing, but wouldn't be surprised if there is a similar dynamic in the workplace.
One study I am aware of (but would have to hunt to find it) found that one of the most critical factors for forming new friendships was frequent, unstructured/unpanned time together. That's a big reason why so many folks form some of their closest friendships in college. Friendships and business relationships aren't exactly the same thing, but wouldn't be surprised if there is a similar dynamic in the workplace.
They don't, because that's a made up statement.
Managerial jobs are essentially meeting people, constantly. When a manager talks about "collaboration" or "invention", they are referring to what they think engineers or creatives produce, thus they are talking about productivity.
And because they relate their own "productivity" to meeting people, they assume everyone else does the same.
Either that, or they feel the need of getting their office entourage back.
Managerial jobs are essentially meeting people, constantly. When a manager talks about "collaboration" or "invention", they are referring to what they think engineers or creatives produce, thus they are talking about productivity.
And because they relate their own "productivity" to meeting people, they assume everyone else does the same.
Either that, or they feel the need of getting their office entourage back.
I've mentally split the the "mandatory RTO" into three groups:
* I'm a manager that wants to know I have control over other people - often phrased as "I need to make sure people are working" and similar
* I use work as my primary opportunity for socializing, because socializing is important everyone else must use the office for this as well. I am not saying "all they do is socialize at work", I'm just saying that their primary social interaction is at work. That said I assume this category includes the people who keep interrupting their coworkers in non-office environments
* I cannot work outside of a formal atmosphere, and so I don't believe anyone else can either.
I feel like the last one could have some overlap with the first (e.g. "I can't work away from the office, therefore no one else can either") and I can't quite work out whether the "you cannot communicate effectively except in person" is more #2 or #3.
My distinct impression is for high level management this is more about control - there was an article a few months back where a bunch of managers were handwringing about how WFH meant they were losing the ability to leverage in-office social connections to under pay people (phrased in terms of avoiding people taking jobs for other companies). This one is insidious as it's leveraging the socializing aspects desired by group 2.
* I'm a manager that wants to know I have control over other people - often phrased as "I need to make sure people are working" and similar
* I use work as my primary opportunity for socializing, because socializing is important everyone else must use the office for this as well. I am not saying "all they do is socialize at work", I'm just saying that their primary social interaction is at work. That said I assume this category includes the people who keep interrupting their coworkers in non-office environments
* I cannot work outside of a formal atmosphere, and so I don't believe anyone else can either.
I feel like the last one could have some overlap with the first (e.g. "I can't work away from the office, therefore no one else can either") and I can't quite work out whether the "you cannot communicate effectively except in person" is more #2 or #3.
My distinct impression is for high level management this is more about control - there was an article a few months back where a bunch of managers were handwringing about how WFH meant they were losing the ability to leverage in-office social connections to under pay people (phrased in terms of avoiding people taking jobs for other companies). This one is insidious as it's leveraging the socializing aspects desired by group 2.
I think there are enough posts on this by now.
* https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34838828
* https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34838551
* https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34837551
* https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34838828
* https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34838551
* https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34837551
I visited the front page multiple times today, and this is the only thread I’ve seen. Are downvotes pushing these down to later pages?
I don't think this is as big of a deal as it sounds. Many will get approved for remote location. The rest I am sure will want to come back to the office. And I'm sure there are a good amount of managers who won't really care as long as you're getting your work done. Meaning I wonder how this will be enforced and at what level if at all. Given that a senior leadership team was mentioned I expect this will be tracked at a senior level with metrics and all that, so I'm guessing now it will be more enforced than not.
Read his original message here: https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/company-news/andy-jassy-upd...
Regarding remote work:
“Of course, as there were before the pandemic, there will still be certain roles (e.g. some of our salespeople, customer support, etc.) and exceptions to these expectations, but that will be a small minority.”
Regarding remote work:
“Of course, as there were before the pandemic, there will still be certain roles (e.g. some of our salespeople, customer support, etc.) and exceptions to these expectations, but that will be a small minority.”
>Many will get approved for remote location.
Well, that is not what he writes.
Well, that is not what he writes.
If I get approved for a remote location I get a huge paycut, despite continuing to pay the same taxes and COL in the same location.
Then let the people who want to work in the office work in the office. Let the people who don't work from home. That will even reduce the number of people you're trying to fit into a building, making offices possible once more, so the people who do need to be in the office get a better working environment as well.
If most people don’t go back to the office, most people in the office will spend most of their time in video calls, which defeats the purpose.
Given my job isn't to spend all days in meetings, why would making me go back to the office change that?
Moreover, when I am in the office, and have meetings, I'm still video calling to other people. The _only_ thing being in the office does is mean I lose 4 hours a day driving to and from that office. For no reason at all.
The only communication an office allows - for me - that is impossible remotely, is the kind where one person decides they're more important than their coworkers, or their coworker's work and starts interrupting everyone around them.
Moreover, when I am in the office, and have meetings, I'm still video calling to other people. The _only_ thing being in the office does is mean I lose 4 hours a day driving to and from that office. For no reason at all.
The only communication an office allows - for me - that is impossible remotely, is the kind where one person decides they're more important than their coworkers, or their coworker's work and starts interrupting everyone around them.
The same will happen if most people don't go back to the same office. They will be in different offices on video calls all the time to each other.
That assumes that most people spend most of their time on video calls now. Which hopefully isn't true.
And if it is true, all of the points that Jassy makes suggests that they are doing remote collaboration wrong. For example: holding meetings instead of working together, which is just as possible to do effectively remotely as in person.
And if it is true, all of the points that Jassy makes suggests that they are doing remote collaboration wrong. For example: holding meetings instead of working together, which is just as possible to do effectively remotely as in person.
That seems to suggest going back to the office isnt a great idea?
I’m glad to see someone got my point :)
I see, you fell afoul of that thing where <CLEARLY_SATIRICAL_NOTION> has also been presented as a straightforward and earnest position by some one else.
Really? Do you have actual stats to back that claim up? Because the same claim is made by a variety of consulting firms about a variety of open office and similar plans that executives love, and literally every single study ever performed by someone who wasn't a consultant being paid to justify making everyone's work environment worse, has shown that they do the exact opposite.