Introduction to Open Source Laptop Project by Lukas Henkel(resources.altium.com)
resources.altium.com
Introduction to Open Source Laptop Project by Lukas Henkel
https://resources.altium.com/p/open-source-laptop-part-one
57 comments
How can you desire 3:2 aspect ratio display and 1080p resolution in the same time?
3:2=1.5 and 1920:1080=1.777…
or am I missing something?
3:2=1.5 and 1920:1080=1.777…
or am I missing something?
This is the mistake in nomenclature (1080p) using the height-value instead of the width-value.
It should really look like this (but it doesn't):
HD - 1280p
FullHD - 1920p
WQHD/2K - 2560p
4K - 3840p
It should really look like this (but it doesn't):
HD - 1280p
FullHD - 1920p
WQHD/2K - 2560p
4K - 3840p
1620x1080 would be 3:2 and 1080p (assuming it's not interlaced, of course). That's not a standard resolution, but there's no reason you couldn't make a display with that resolution.
Sorry I should have said 1080p+. I do not have the 1080p equivalent of the 3:2 ratio on the tip of my tongue
Does 1920x1280 sound right to you?
Sample (not affiliated)
> Microsoft Surface 3 10.8 FHD (1920x1280) Touchscreen 2-in-1 Education and Business Laptop Tablet (Intel Quad-Core Atom x7-Z8700, 4GB RAM, 64GB SSD) Mini DP, WiFi AC, Webcam, Windows 10 Pro (Renewed)
https://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-1920x1280-Touchscreen-Educa...
Sample (not affiliated)
> Microsoft Surface 3 10.8 FHD (1920x1280) Touchscreen 2-in-1 Education and Business Laptop Tablet (Intel Quad-Core Atom x7-Z8700, 4GB RAM, 64GB SSD) Mini DP, WiFi AC, Webcam, Windows 10 Pro (Renewed)
https://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-1920x1280-Touchscreen-Educa...
> 99 WHr. Fast charging.
> ability to fast charge in minute
Even with a bulky 200W charger you'll need at least half an hour to charge a 99Wh battery.
> ability to fast charge in minute
Even with a bulky 200W charger you'll need at least half an hour to charge a 99Wh battery.
Fair enough. Charging for 1 hour and then being able to use the laptop for a couple of days still would be amazing.
Would love to see ~500 A capable charging connector and wires in a laptop for a typical 3S/2P pack. It would be an interesting curiosity. :D
We really need an EV-like fast charger standard for electronics.
I want to dump 1000W in to charge the battery as fast as possible. Lose the heat through boiling water or something I don't care.
I want to dump 1000W in to charge the battery as fast as possible. Lose the heat through boiling water or something I don't care.
> We really need an EV-like fast charger standard for electronics.
We already have it, the fastest charging phones charge their batteries faster than the fastest charging EVs.
Battery charge and discharge rate generally scales linearly with capacity, given the same battery technology twice as much battery should generally be able to handle twice as much energy in either direction. For the sale of comparison we divide the charge rate by the capacity to get a "C-Rate" where 1C is defined as the rate that would fully drain or charge the battery in one hour. For an EV with an 80kWh battery pack 80kW would be 1C, 160kW 2C, etc.
The fastest charging EVs on the market right now all peak in the 2.5-3C range, with the Hyundai-Kia e-GMP cars taking the lead even with a lower overall peak wattage due to their smaller batteries. The Lucid Air, Tesla Plaid, and Porsche/Audi siblings all hit higher watt numbers but have significantly larger batteries so they have an easier time doing that.
A modern cell phone with fast charging can be well above 5C. The wattage numbers are thousands of times lower, but so are the capacities. The fastest charging phone I can find right now claims 300 watts and has demonstrated a bit over 280 from the wall which would imply around 260 reaching the device. In to a 4100mAh battery, which assuming standard chemistry is 4.2v nominal means 17.22 watt hours, so 260 watts would be just over 15C. A Tesla P100D would need to be accepting 1.5 megawatts to match that performance.
Hope that puts it in to perspective for you. The fact that phones exist that can charge at hundreds of watts is absurd already, without some serious advances in both battery and wiring tech we are not getting significantly faster than that.
We already have it, the fastest charging phones charge their batteries faster than the fastest charging EVs.
Battery charge and discharge rate generally scales linearly with capacity, given the same battery technology twice as much battery should generally be able to handle twice as much energy in either direction. For the sale of comparison we divide the charge rate by the capacity to get a "C-Rate" where 1C is defined as the rate that would fully drain or charge the battery in one hour. For an EV with an 80kWh battery pack 80kW would be 1C, 160kW 2C, etc.
The fastest charging EVs on the market right now all peak in the 2.5-3C range, with the Hyundai-Kia e-GMP cars taking the lead even with a lower overall peak wattage due to their smaller batteries. The Lucid Air, Tesla Plaid, and Porsche/Audi siblings all hit higher watt numbers but have significantly larger batteries so they have an easier time doing that.
A modern cell phone with fast charging can be well above 5C. The wattage numbers are thousands of times lower, but so are the capacities. The fastest charging phone I can find right now claims 300 watts and has demonstrated a bit over 280 from the wall which would imply around 260 reaching the device. In to a 4100mAh battery, which assuming standard chemistry is 4.2v nominal means 17.22 watt hours, so 260 watts would be just over 15C. A Tesla P100D would need to be accepting 1.5 megawatts to match that performance.
Hope that puts it in to perspective for you. The fact that phones exist that can charge at hundreds of watts is absurd already, without some serious advances in both battery and wiring tech we are not getting significantly faster than that.
That's not how that works.
https://www.corrosionpedia.com/definition/395/diffusion-limi...
https://www.corrosionpedia.com/definition/395/diffusion-limi...
Which is why most research in batteries has focused on improved high porosity anodes to solve exactly that problem.[1]
For an EV the power use would be excessive, but 1000W into a phone that can get you to 80% capacity in that time is more then enough.
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/19/electric...
For an EV the power use would be excessive, but 1000W into a phone that can get you to 80% capacity in that time is more then enough.
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/19/electric...
I'd like to give a shot to: https://www.clockworkpi.com/home-devterm as it seems the perfect hack-on-the-go device to throw not hardware hungry code. The main issue for me preventing trying one of these is the keyboard and the trackball.
From what I could see from some videos is one of its weakest points. The input device (in my opinion) in this case has to be excellent, I wouldn't care to pay a bit more for this. I would sacrifice the gaming buttons for a bigger regular keyboard and use a trackpoint instead of a tiny trackball.
The thing with the trackpoint is that almost requires no lift of hands from the keyboard, it takes a bit getting used to but in my opinion is one of the best input devices that a notebook or small computer can have.
The devterm seems to follow the Dynabook layout which I think is great, if you could also bend a bit the screen a that would be terrific.
From what I could see from some videos is one of its weakest points. The input device (in my opinion) in this case has to be excellent, I wouldn't care to pay a bit more for this. I would sacrifice the gaming buttons for a bigger regular keyboard and use a trackpoint instead of a tiny trackball.
The thing with the trackpoint is that almost requires no lift of hands from the keyboard, it takes a bit getting used to but in my opinion is one of the best input devices that a notebook or small computer can have.
The devterm seems to follow the Dynabook layout which I think is great, if you could also bend a bit the screen a that would be terrific.
I've got one of these, you are right about the keyboard and trackball, they aren't great.
I have probably only used it a few times, it is very cool to look at but less so a functional device one could use for serious work comfortably.
I have probably only used it a few times, it is very cool to look at but less so a functional device one could use for serious work comfortably.
A shame. It could be a little bit bigger and get a good keyboard and a bit more of a display, and still look like a TRS-80 model 100.
What I like about it (thinking about getting one) is the upgradeability - the RPi CM4 adapter should give it a couple extra generations, but I'm not a fan of the 480-line display idea unless one could use Wayland to extract more virtual pixels.
What I like about it (thinking about getting one) is the upgradeability - the RPi CM4 adapter should give it a couple extra generations, but I'm not a fan of the 480-line display idea unless one could use Wayland to extract more virtual pixels.
Back when I was looking at Lenovo (ThinkPad) laptops a couple of years ago, I was disappointed that I couldn’t get a ThinkPad that had a “better than 1080p display”, upgradable RAM, Thunderbolt, AMD CPU, and cellular connectivity. I guess the big ask there is “AMD CPU and Thunderbolt”, but Thunderbolt has been open source for how many years now?
I think is it essentially 1 year.
They made big announcements about opening it all up but it wasn't really until this past year or so that it was really.
But from what I understand, Thunderbolt4 and USB4 are mostly interchangeable. It's just that USB4 supports additional slower modes for devices that don't need the speed.
Hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but the next AMD processors and chipsets support USB4 which provides Thunderbolt4.
[Edit] The AMD Framework would provide you with all of your requirements, except cell service, but you could install it when one does become available?
They made big announcements about opening it all up but it wasn't really until this past year or so that it was really.
But from what I understand, Thunderbolt4 and USB4 are mostly interchangeable. It's just that USB4 supports additional slower modes for devices that don't need the speed.
Hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but the next AMD processors and chipsets support USB4 which provides Thunderbolt4.
[Edit] The AMD Framework would provide you with all of your requirements, except cell service, but you could install it when one does become available?
Maybe the Thinkpad x13s then (Snapdragon 8cx Gen 3)?
Indeed that sounds like a fantastic machine. But still doesn't meets my battery goals. I really think that some of these mobile-soc-in-a-laptop devices should utilize the extra space they have and add on an extra battery. This one seems to have 45Whr. making it 99+WHr would have been much better IMO.
you would need the old Thinkpad with hot swappable batteries, I would say it's a shame they stopping doing them but I don't actually think many people used them in practice.
Also now you can do pretty much that with a separate powerbank charging your laptop via usb C. it's more cumbersome but with a more universal interface and more versatile.
Also now you can do pretty much that with a separate powerbank charging your laptop via usb C. it's more cumbersome but with a more universal interface and more versatile.
You don't need hot swappable batteries anymore. Tuxedo infinity book packs in a 99Whr battery in a thin form https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/TUXEDO-InfinityBook-Pro-1...
If they ever put a mobile SoC in a 13 incher with that battery, I would happily buy it.
If they ever put a mobile SoC in a 13 incher with that battery, I would happily buy it.
You could make a custom battery. I've done this for an e-bike to extend the range considerably.
i've settled on 51nb x2100 for now.
ticks plenty of your (and my) boxes, notably the pre-island thinkpad keyboard.
13" 3000x2000 screen, i7-10810u, 64gb ddr4
ticks plenty of your (and my) boxes, notably the pre-island thinkpad keyboard.
13" 3000x2000 screen, i7-10810u, 64gb ddr4
You can drastically undervolt AMD laptops and get very close. Their default power profiles are very aggressive and power thirsty.
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The Samsung Galaxy Book 2 sort of met your requirements, buts it’s god awful expensive.
It also has god awfull thermal management, even on power efficient Silent mode, the bottom gets hot fast.
The audio is god awfull (for a product in that price range), lot of static with most earphones, have to use models with high impedance.
I found the linux experience subpar on this device (the cpu was running even hotter than on windows last time I tried).
The audio is god awfull (for a product in that price range), lot of static with most earphones, have to use models with high impedance.
I found the linux experience subpar on this device (the cpu was running even hotter than on windows last time I tried).
Your best bet is likely a MacBook Pro.
yep, but that doesn't gives me 5G connectivity.
But yes, once Asahi Linux is ready for daily usage, I'll likely end up with a Macbook Air
Seems somewhat paradoxical, reading on the website of a closed source software vendor about open source hardware.
Open source lives by participation, which doesn't happen if you have to pay for an Altium license as an entry fee. And even if free, proprietary vendors can always hold your design hostage.
Imho, this needs to be done in KiCAD.
Open source lives by participation, which doesn't happen if you have to pay for an Altium license as an entry fee. And even if free, proprietary vendors can always hold your design hostage.
Imho, this needs to be done in KiCAD.
That was my thought too, seeing open source and altium in the same submission is just jarring.
This is the second time I've seen an altium post here in about a week, I wonder if they've hired an intern to do "community outreach"? I can't see it working with their lack of "hobbyist" support tbh.
This is the second time I've seen an altium post here in about a week, I wonder if they've hired an intern to do "community outreach"? I can't see it working with their lack of "hobbyist" support tbh.
Came here to say this too. KiCAD has come a LONG way in the last couple years. It’s suitable for professional work and a no brainer for open source hardware.
Who is going to drop $4k/year for an Altium license to contribute to your open source project?!
Who is going to drop $4k/year for an Altium license to contribute to your open source project?!
Or it needs to be done in Horizon EDA.
Yes, it feels wrong. I guess that Altium is paying him to do the work which is a cool gig, anyway. Hopefully the design files can be converted or manually ported for use with FOSS.
tbf there is maybe no open source competitor good enough
Similar project leveraging the openness of the openPOWER architecture and I believe much more advanced : https://www.powerpc-notebook.org/fr/
I think people should start small and target an open motherboard first and foremost for the Framework, that way you don't have to design a whole laptop. It's very probable that the pioneer who care about that kind of thing are willing to buy or already own a Framework. A laptop with a small production is goind to be expensive anyways, better leverage the ecosystem.
I think people should start small and target an open motherboard first and foremost for the Framework, that way you don't have to design a whole laptop. It's very probable that the pioneer who care about that kind of thing are willing to buy or already own a Framework. A laptop with a small production is goind to be expensive anyways, better leverage the ecosystem.
I am immediately turned off by that small LCD in the keyboard and whatever is going on in the top bezel.
A project like this should focus on their core mission, pick a simple & solid design, and _deliver_. The last thing they should be doing is distracting themselves with gimmicks; they said themselves how immensely tough this space is, even the most barebones of designs are enormously complex. There will be time for gimmicks once all the important stuff is done first.
A project like this should focus on their core mission, pick a simple & solid design, and _deliver_. The last thing they should be doing is distracting themselves with gimmicks; they said themselves how immensely tough this space is, even the most barebones of designs are enormously complex. There will be time for gimmicks once all the important stuff is done first.
Then go back to your favorite Cathedral. This isn't one of those: that's what "open source" is good for!
What you see as gimmicks, this person sees as the entire point. The fact that "this space is so immensely tough" is exactly why they didn't already have what they wanted.
What you see as gimmicks, this person sees as the entire point. The fact that "this space is so immensely tough" is exactly why they didn't already have what they wanted.
There is always room for well engineered open source hardware.
Having said that, a compare and contrast with the excellent work done by https://frame.work/ would be helpful.
Having said that, a compare and contrast with the excellent work done by https://frame.work/ would be helpful.
From Lukas’s latest tweets, he is using our Display Kit, so at least that spec is the same!
This is truly an introduction, meaning there is nothing else here other than a proposal
Was half-expecting to see "YA" in front of this laptop's name, because I think we're probably at that point.
Many open source laptops have come before and none really took off. My OLPC XO-1 sits in its bag, waiting...for a day that will probably never come.
Bunnie's Novena Laptop as mentioned in another comment, the Frameworks (which is probably the only one doing...OK, and it's not a Free Software laptop iirc), lots of other little laptop projects started and abandoned or fizzled out.
The best the Linux community has now is a bunch of rebadged Clevos, apparently. It's disheartening.
Many open source laptops have come before and none really took off. My OLPC XO-1 sits in its bag, waiting...for a day that will probably never come.
Bunnie's Novena Laptop as mentioned in another comment, the Frameworks (which is probably the only one doing...OK, and it's not a Free Software laptop iirc), lots of other little laptop projects started and abandoned or fizzled out.
The best the Linux community has now is a bunch of rebadged Clevos, apparently. It's disheartening.
Also, MNT Reform. Love it, though the screen is a bit wide for me.
My OLPC XO-1 is still a daily-driver (with an HHKB, yeah I know the keyboard costs more than the laptop, tough!), especially for outside use.
https://mntre.com/ ^ MNT
My OLPC XO-1 is still a daily-driver (with an HHKB, yeah I know the keyboard costs more than the laptop, tough!), especially for outside use.
https://mntre.com/ ^ MNT
> The best the Linux community has now is a bunch of rebadged Clevos, apparently. It's disheartening.
Mostly fair, but what about Framework?
Mostly fair, but what about Framework?
Possibly because linux runs well on many OEM machines, and this niche really isn't needed in the market?
Reminded me of the Olimex's DIY laptop, which was fun to assemble:
https://www.olimex.com/Products/DIY-Laptop/KITS/
https://www.olimex.com/Products/DIY-Laptop/KITS/
What we need is understandable laptop/hardware, not open-source. Open-source is a step toward this goal but it shouldn't be the target.
Framework laptops could be considered as open-source, but I am not convinced that I could understand the system much quicker than any other random laptop manufacturer
Framework laptops could be considered as open-source, but I am not convinced that I could understand the system much quicker than any other random laptop manufacturer
I appreciate the detailed breakdown of the challenges and solutions in the design process. For anyone interested in diving deeper, you might also want to explore Open Compute Project (OCP), an initiative that's similar in spirit and fosters sharing of open-source hardware designs.
Reminds me of the original open laptop that Bunnie created: https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=3657
The Novena Open Laptop.
The Novena Open Laptop.
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Form factor: 13 inch, 3:2 aspect ratio display,
Display: 1080p resolution, no touchscreen, matte display.
RAM: DDR5 32 Gb
SoC: a top of the line mobile chipset like Snapdragon Gen 2. With roaming internet using phone SIMs.
Battery: 99 WHr. Fast charging. (Probably my biggest criteria)
Keyboard: Similar to Thinkpad keyboards.
Open Bootloader, so I that I can throw Linux in it without too much headache.
Give me something which may be a bit underpowered, but has multi day battery life and ability to fast charge in minute and I am good to go. I hope that open laptop initiatives do pick up, so that we can have such enthusiast grade devices.