When Emo Conquered the Mainstream(newyorker.com)
newyorker.com
When Emo Conquered the Mainstream
https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/when-emo-conquered-the-mainstream
81 comments
> is how (like grunge) it was a media phenomenon that tried to unified very different bands [...] are all labeled "emo" but sound nothing alike.
Mostly agree, but there will always be within-group variation within the poor art form of taxonomising music scenes, and there were certainly similarities in the emo scene. For example, they almost all had the traditional structure of a guitar based band (guitarist, bassist, drummer) with big, melodic sounds well suited to stadium tours, and their lyrics shared similar emotional tones. You can point to most music scenes - grunge, Britpop, punk, post-punk, the 2000s garage revival, early 60s folk, etc - and I suspect you'd find more similarities than differences.
Mostly agree, but there will always be within-group variation within the poor art form of taxonomising music scenes, and there were certainly similarities in the emo scene. For example, they almost all had the traditional structure of a guitar based band (guitarist, bassist, drummer) with big, melodic sounds well suited to stadium tours, and their lyrics shared similar emotional tones. You can point to most music scenes - grunge, Britpop, punk, post-punk, the 2000s garage revival, early 60s folk, etc - and I suspect you'd find more similarities than differences.
I know a lot of programmers who are really into prog/metal but never venture into the emo/screamo side of things.
Off the top of my head, here are a few of my favorite albums from the genre:
• Origami Angel :: Gami Gang
• A Lot Like Birds :: No Place
• Dance Gavin Dance :: Downtown Battle Mountain
• Mars Volta :: De-Loused in the Comatorium
• Taking Back Sunday :: Where You Want To Be
• Underoath :: Define the Great Line
• Sky Eats Airplane :: Sky Eats Airplane
• From Indian Lakes :: The Man with Wooden Legs
• Circa Survive :: Blue Sky Noise
• Mew :: Frengers
• Other Men :: Wake Up Swimming
Off the top of my head, here are a few of my favorite albums from the genre:
• Origami Angel :: Gami Gang
• A Lot Like Birds :: No Place
• Dance Gavin Dance :: Downtown Battle Mountain
• Mars Volta :: De-Loused in the Comatorium
• Taking Back Sunday :: Where You Want To Be
• Underoath :: Define the Great Line
• Sky Eats Airplane :: Sky Eats Airplane
• From Indian Lakes :: The Man with Wooden Legs
• Circa Survive :: Blue Sky Noise
• Mew :: Frengers
• Other Men :: Wake Up Swimming
did not expect to see Origami Angel mentioned on hackernews
good mentions: hot mulligan, mom jeans, oso oso, free throw
good mentions: hot mulligan, mom jeans, oso oso, free throw
Prince Daddy & the Hyena, The Hotelier, State Lines, Home is Where, Sincere Engineer, Spanish Love Songs, Anxious, Joyce Manor, Worst Party Ever, Michael Cera Palin, Macseal, Fiddlehead, Charmer, Dogleg, Knucklepuck, Pity Sex, Tigers Jaw and Title Fight are all good options too.
Had the opportunity to see Joyce Manor live this year, it was quite amazing.
I got into emo quite late (in my late 20s, mostly due to Spotify discovery queue), but found it really fun to listen to.
Would also recommend Football etc, Adventures and Rainer Maria.
I got into emo quite late (in my late 20s, mostly due to Spotify discovery queue), but found it really fun to listen to.
Would also recommend Football etc, Adventures and Rainer Maria.
I love Joyce Manor — mainly that they drop straight into the hooks, no nonsense and an album is done in 20 minutes. Their ability to write catchy songs is remarkable.
+1 for hot mulligan!
Would add
- Tiny moving parts
- Bouquet
- I feel fine
- Hail the sun
- Everything Anthony Green has been involved in
- Body thief
Instant Gratification by Dance Gavin Dance is one of my top albums of all time.
Great list, I’d add:
- Alexisonfire :: self titled
- Thursday :: Full Collapse
- Taking Back Sunday :: Tell all your friends
- The Used :: self titled
- From First To Last :: dear diary
Fun fact: The lead singer of the last band went on to become Skrillex.
- Alexisonfire :: self titled
- Thursday :: Full Collapse
- Taking Back Sunday :: Tell all your friends
- The Used :: self titled
- From First To Last :: dear diary
Fun fact: The lead singer of the last band went on to become Skrillex.
Thursday is very under appreciated. Their lyrics stand the test of time.
Their set in TIHC 2022 was one of the best I have listened to.
> Mars Volta :: De-Loused in the Comatorium
Interesting, this one to me was always more post-punk (from the ATDI era) transitioning into prog rock (everything TMV did after their first album). Haven't really considered it to be "emo", but then again, I'm not an expert when it comes to musical genres.
Interesting, this one to me was always more post-punk (from the ATDI era) transitioning into prog rock (everything TMV did after their first album). Haven't really considered it to be "emo", but then again, I'm not an expert when it comes to musical genres.
I can add some to this list, not into emo, I am more into hardcore but I liked a few emo albums nonetheless.
• Thursday - Full Collapse
• Student Rick - Soundtrack for a Generation
• Saves the Day - Stay What You Are
• Dashboard Confessional - The Places you have come to fear the most
• Armor for Sleep - Dream to make believe
• Silverstein - When broken is easily fixed
• Thursday - Full Collapse
• Student Rick - Soundtrack for a Generation
• Saves the Day - Stay What You Are
• Dashboard Confessional - The Places you have come to fear the most
• Armor for Sleep - Dream to make believe
• Silverstein - When broken is easily fixed
• Hearts That Hate :: Cry Tonight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxVPhaJtL8o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QRHQrJRmG4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxVPhaJtL8o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QRHQrJRmG4
My daughter loves Dashboard, get me one of those!
Hmmm, Dashboard Confessional seem to be an actual band though.
Best I can do is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGxDVXGRQpY
Best I can do is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGxDVXGRQpY
I didn't expect to see DBM mentioned on hackernews today. That's the part where we bring up Jonny Craig?
We only speak of Jonny in hushed whispers for what once was.
• Canadian Softball :: Peev Shalpatine
Sure "emo" (well, pop emo) isn't around as a genre, but IMO it lives on as "sadboy" / "sadgirl".
I'd probably argue anything with introspective, sentimental, or self-motivating lyrics is on the emo spectrum.
Have Heart & Ruiner sound like typical Bridge 9 hardcore, but the lyrics are sad as shit.
http://www.plyrics.com/lyrics/ruiner/adheringtosuperstition....
http://www.plyrics.com/lyrics/ruiner/gettingovertheovers.htm...
http://www.plyrics.com/lyrics/haveheart/lifeishardenough.htm...
http://www.plyrics.com/lyrics/haveheart/aboutface.html
I'd probably argue anything with introspective, sentimental, or self-motivating lyrics is on the emo spectrum.
Have Heart & Ruiner sound like typical Bridge 9 hardcore, but the lyrics are sad as shit.
http://www.plyrics.com/lyrics/ruiner/adheringtosuperstition....
http://www.plyrics.com/lyrics/ruiner/gettingovertheovers.htm...
http://www.plyrics.com/lyrics/haveheart/lifeishardenough.htm...
http://www.plyrics.com/lyrics/haveheart/aboutface.html
Eh I think that depends on how you define emo. Like most genres today it might not be as mainstream but there’s plenty of medium sized groups making music in that space with a dedicated audience.
If anything I’d say sadboy is a vibe that contains a lot of music, including emo. I’d say I listen to a lot of sadboy rock that is decidedly not emo as it doesn’t share much musically or lyrically with emo / emo-punk. Then you get your sadboy / sadgirl pop / hip hop, etc. too.
If anything I’d say sadboy is a vibe that contains a lot of music, including emo. I’d say I listen to a lot of sadboy rock that is decidedly not emo as it doesn’t share much musically or lyrically with emo / emo-punk. Then you get your sadboy / sadgirl pop / hip hop, etc. too.
I could also agree with what you're saying, and I want to state that I think genres are mostly society shoehorning things into boxes.
> I’d say sadboy is a vibe
Yup, exactly. That's what I said about emo in another comment. Emo/sadboy/sadgirl are the same word from different eras.
> I’d say I listen to a lot of sadboy rock that is decidedly not emo as it doesn’t share much musically or lyrically with emo / emo-punk. Then you get your sadboy / sadgirl pop / hip hop, etc. too
Yup, and in another era, those would have been lumped with emo.
> I’d say sadboy is a vibe
Yup, exactly. That's what I said about emo in another comment. Emo/sadboy/sadgirl are the same word from different eras.
> I’d say I listen to a lot of sadboy rock that is decidedly not emo as it doesn’t share much musically or lyrically with emo / emo-punk. Then you get your sadboy / sadgirl pop / hip hop, etc. too
Yup, and in another era, those would have been lumped with emo.
I guess it depends on what you consider emo, but the genre is in its fifth wave and going strong!
Ah yes dear friends, there is indeed a nice web culture crossover here. Who here remembers the Emogames?:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emogame
Flash beat-em-ups where you control control popular emo artistes of the day. For example, helping At The Drive-In’s bouffant Cedric Bixler battle a human centipede version of Puddle of Muddddd before taking on the end of level boss in the form of a pixelated Fred Durst while rocking out to Alkaline Trio etc.
Happy memories. I found a lot of bands through those games.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emogame
Flash beat-em-ups where you control control popular emo artistes of the day. For example, helping At The Drive-In’s bouffant Cedric Bixler battle a human centipede version of Puddle of Muddddd before taking on the end of level boss in the form of a pixelated Fred Durst while rocking out to Alkaline Trio etc.
Happy memories. I found a lot of bands through those games.
Jason Oda, who made these (I think entirely by himself), was probably asked to design merch and album covers by hundreds of bands but only ever did one that I’m aware of: Lydia’s This December; It’s One More and I’m Free
It’s incredible (and so is the album)
It’s incredible (and so is the album)
I remember Absolute Punk being my homepage.
There is some absolutely incredible Emo/Screamo adjacent music being made right now. In particular, the screamo genre has turned into something very special. If you like screamo or black metal, check out Ostraca. Some of the most interesting new music I've heard in the last few years.
Ostraca sounds like a heavier mix of Saetia and the old stuff from Raein. I dig it!
Never heard of either of these bands, but just checked em out. Definitely see the comparison. good stuff!
When you explore music in this genre, there are honestly just countless small acts that put out some really intense and well orchestrated music. Most people think of like, evanescence when they think of screamo, but its actually something entirely different that is closer to like 90s black metal.
When you explore music in this genre, there are honestly just countless small acts that put out some really intense and well orchestrated music. Most people think of like, evanescence when they think of screamo, but its actually something entirely different that is closer to like 90s black metal.
Portrayal of Guilt is another band that lives somewhere between screamo and black metal, especially on their early releases.
If you liked the sound of Raein, there are some other suggestions I’d like to offer.
These are (were, sadly) all, like Raein (Italy), European screamo bands and while often named together with their American contemporaries (bands like City of Caterpillar, Circle Takes The Square, Neil Perry, …), I’ve always felt their sound is quite a bit different.
France: Daïtro, Sed Non Satiata, Aussitôt Mort, Belle Epoque, Amanda Woodward, Mihai Edrisch
Italy: Raein, La Quiete
Germany: Louise Cyphre, Tristan Tzara, Zann
If you liked the sound of Raein, there are some other suggestions I’d like to offer.
These are (were, sadly) all, like Raein (Italy), European screamo bands and while often named together with their American contemporaries (bands like City of Caterpillar, Circle Takes The Square, Neil Perry, …), I’ve always felt their sound is quite a bit different.
France: Daïtro, Sed Non Satiata, Aussitôt Mort, Belle Epoque, Amanda Woodward, Mihai Edrisch
Italy: Raein, La Quiete
Germany: Louise Cyphre, Tristan Tzara, Zann
I thought Screamo turned into DubStep which I think we can all agree was a terrible move.
Dubstep seemed to have existed exclusively for people born in the same year as Skrillex and thus had a very short mainstream career.
Not sure, but I think UK would like a word. Also, Skrillex isn’t really a Scotsman, at all.
yeah absolutely not. Two very different genres.
Also dubstep is fun. Its music made for raging at shows. its very good for that. otherwise it sucks, yeah.
I thought that was just Skrillex.
Obligatory: Skrillex is BroStep not DubStep.
Is this like a "No True DubStep" situation?
Pretty sure it’s a “people discuss musical genres” thing. I used to get mildly annoyed with my friends - who were all in to music more than me - when they were discussing which bands were in which genres. In the end each of their little (sub)genres had just a couple of bands each.
It kind of defeats the point of a genre.
It kind of defeats the point of a genre.
I mean, noise from /dev/urandom by any other name would smell just as rank.
this feels like the 'USian'/'American' dichotomy
Dubstep generally still has some recognizable traces of reggae in it and is not nearly as aggressive.
Listen to some reggae and some older dub, then traditional dubstep, and you will see why it's useful to have different terms.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dub_music
Listen to some reggae and some older dub, then traditional dubstep, and you will see why it's useful to have different terms.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dub_music
i am familiar with the distinction, but for most of the world, dubstep is what you call brostep. this battle is long lost.
It's best not to pull your hair out over it, but introducing the wider range of terms is low effort and it gives you a chance to introduce brostep fans to ancestrally related genres that they might also like, so I don't see the harm in gentle insistence here.
> The overwhelming maleness of emo, and especially the third wave
“What's the meanest you can be to the one you claim to love / And still smile to your newfound friends?”
“What's the meanest you can be to the one you claim to love / And still smile to your newfound friends?”
> The overwhelming maleness of emo
Is that why it also exists as a genre of gay porn?
Is that why it also exists as a genre of gay porn?
And the fans are all accountants now.
Your comment reminded me of '1985' by Bowling For Soup and just how real it is for some of us :')
Jake just hit a wall, he was ambitious to a fault. One Vyvanse a day, helps him work for the wage. His dreams went out the door, after they cancelled Warped Tour. Was going to tour with the band, instead he's home late cleaning the dirty pans.
I love some of the elements that band put out eventually carried over into the era of Warped Tour I knew best when Pop-Punk was having it's day - which is also having a renaissance of sorts :)
Jake just hit a wall, he was ambitious to a fault. One Vyvanse a day, helps him work for the wage. His dreams went out the door, after they cancelled Warped Tour. Was going to tour with the band, instead he's home late cleaning the dirty pans.
I love some of the elements that band put out eventually carried over into the era of Warped Tour I knew best when Pop-Punk was having it's day - which is also having a renaissance of sorts :)
It's actually a song by SR-71; the Bowling for Soup version is a cover. The two versions have slightly different lyrics, and SR-71's feels slightly more urgent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sy8ulwexfY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sy8ulwexfY
Okay this comment hit a little close to home!
My brother in law is now a "Back-Office Systems Systems Analyst", or essentially Richmond from The IT Crowd.
That’s all I’ve ever wanted to be. Gliding in and out of the office.
Not all of them, there is at least one browsing HN and posting comments here...
You found me.
The average age of HN is something like mid 30s, that is a lot of us former (or not so former) emo fans on here.
Why do you believe the average age is your age?
I would guess the average age is 20s readers or 40s commentators
I would guess the average age is 20s readers or 40s commentators
There have been various polls, such as this one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33480849
Yeah, it's a nostalgia thing now. Don't believe me? Search youtube for "midwest emo".
Neat to see this on HN! I'm in a couple of fifth-wave emo bands currently, and there's some incredible music being made in this genre right now. I'll second the recommendations above, and add:
Saturdays at Your Place, Ben Quad, Summerbruise, Arm's Length, MooseCreek Park, and Home is Where. They've all put out incredible albums in the last year or so :)
5th wave emo is the bet yet!
Wannabe posers and conformists listening to Sunny Day Realestate.
Made it into the mainstream, but failed to defeat rap and house.
Emo rap is a thing - eg. Machine gun Kelly / blackbear
Like punk, emo is a mindset not a genre.
Didn't like it back then. Still think it's cringey
well, as a MCR fan I don't think I'm mainstream at all.
pacija(1)
First, is its intersection with the internet. The genre cannot be understood without myspace and limewire and the like. It's the sound of that time.
Second, is how (like grunge) it was a media phenomenon that tried to unified very different bands. My Chemical Romance, Fall Out Boy, and Taking Back Sunday are all labeled "emo" but sound nothing alike. But they did brush elbows and were in the same place at the same time. Taking Back Sunday even did a stint opening for MCR in their return tour.