How to enjoy SF(zhayitong.com)
zhayitong.com
How to enjoy SF
http://zhayitong.com/2023/06/17/sf1.html
102 comments
Having lived there for a year, I agree about the flakiness
However, along with that comes an openness to experiences from people: If you do anything creative, you will be surprised how much the median person in the Bay will be sincerely into it
Less of the "why would anyone do something like that" attitude I found in the Midwest or East Coast when I show people the stuff I do.
However, along with that comes an openness to experiences from people: If you do anything creative, you will be surprised how much the median person in the Bay will be sincerely into it
Less of the "why would anyone do something like that" attitude I found in the Midwest or East Coast when I show people the stuff I do.
It wasn't just you. At least around 2013 it was a whole thing dubbed "the San Francisco yes": https://thebolditalic.com/what-s-up-with-the-san-francisco-y...
I don’t think it’s just people in the Bay Area that are flaky, but rather Californians in general. I don’t really know what causes it, but I’m guilty of it myself, since I’ve lived here my entire life. Living in a place like SF where there’s a lot of options just exacerbates it.
I wonder if our lack of good public transit has anything to do with this. If I had a super easy way to get down to San Jose from the East Bay, I would be hanging out with my friends down there much more often.
I think you might be right about this; it's way easier to party – and indulge – when you can take a cheap cab or the subway from LES to UWS.
BART has extended a little closer on both sides. Or BART + CalTrain (esp. some variant of express / limited). It's still a longer ride, a full hour or more from East Bay.
Agreed. It's actually much worse in LA than SF (I've lived 20+ years in each).
This is really cute. I appreciate the sentiment and I think it applies even beyond SF.
FWIW, I have lived in SF for the last 8 years and I agree wholeheartedly.
FWIW, I have lived in SF for the last 8 years and I agree wholeheartedly.
I have been on a mission to figure out why Mexican food falls off a cliff after going north of LA. Plenty of Mexicans, plenty of amazing produce and proteins, what happens after LA that says put rice in my burrito??
Exception: Best SF Mexican tacos is of course Taqueria Vallarta in the Mission.
Exception: Best SF Mexican tacos is of course Taqueria Vallarta in the Mission.
Burritos are not really Mexican food in general — they’re the regional cuisine of a region that includes the American southwest and the extreme north of Mexico. You’re basically saying you like regional LA cuisine better than regional SF cuisine, not that one region is particularly more faithfully reproducing “Mexican food” than the other.
Someone pointed out to me the other day that the Bay Area was part of Mexico from 1821 until 1848 (it was under Spanish control prior to that) - so one way to think about Bay Area Mexican food (and Californian Mexican food in general) is that it is it's own regional variety, and has been for a couple of hundred years at least.
This is a legitimate way of viewing things. I wonder how “true” it is in the sense that explains Mexican food in California today. Specifically, I don’t think the Mexican population in Alta California was really all that high in 1848. I think it just wasn’t all that high in general.
So there are families that can trace themselves to Mexican California, but I believe their numbers and culinary influence was overshadowed by the significantly bigger population that came later. But maybe that’s just as authentic. They were bringing and making dishes, not copying them.
So there are families that can trace themselves to Mexican California, but I believe their numbers and culinary influence was overshadowed by the significantly bigger population that came later. But maybe that’s just as authentic. They were bringing and making dishes, not copying them.
Btw, 1821 is when New Spain (now called Mexico) became independent. So all of Mexico was under Spanish control before that, not just California. You probably already know this, but your post sort of makes it sound like California was transferred from one country to another in that year.
Exactly, although I’m not sure whether rice in burritos was around back then or if it’s a more recent invention.
We love “Food Log”. Living in NY area now and I miss Food Log.
As someone raise on LA Mexican food, there is great Mexican food in deep East Bay and in South City (South San Francisco).
But Tacos, not burritos. Burritos are their own thing in the bay area so they cater to the local taste.
But Tacos, not burritos. Burritos are their own thing in the bay area so they cater to the local taste.
Appreciate your specificity in reply. I want to practice better responses to the unimaginative LA dunks on Bay food.
The most popular spots aren’t necessarily the best spots, and somehow no matter how many taquerias there are in the Mission, new ones continue to come in and figure out how to do it better.
If you haven’t yet, check out Al Carajo, Loltun, El Patron, Tacos del Barrio (who do al pastor on a proper trompo), and El Charro (a little, probably unpermitted stand on the sidewalk at 18th & Mission who somehow also have a trompo set up for al pastor).
If you haven’t yet, check out Al Carajo, Loltun, El Patron, Tacos del Barrio (who do al pastor on a proper trompo), and El Charro (a little, probably unpermitted stand on the sidewalk at 18th & Mission who somehow also have a trompo set up for al pastor).
If you want good Mexican food in the Bay area go to Richmond, not SF
Mexican food seems pretty subjective to me at this point. You probably just associate LA style with “good”. I like tiny $5 artisan tacos sometimes, a giant sloppy burrito from a food truck sometimes, I even get in the mood for chipotle occasionally. I wouldn’t even try to compare any of those places.
There is way more to Mexican food than burritos and tacos. Unfortunately folks who are only exposed to Bay Area Mexican food would never be aware of that.
That's a bit hyperbolic. Plenty of Bay Area Mexican food, 5 mins from my home in fact, has aguachiles, ceviche, tortas, vampiros, pambazo, flautas, sopes, chorriadas, mole, etc.
A bit, perhaps. But it's something famously pointed out by Anthony Bourdain as well. Keep in mind the context in which you're replying: is rice an authentic ingredient in a burrito? Mexican food in the Bay Area is pretty good if you focus on tacos instead of burritos…
And there's two parts to this: first one is that there's not much diversity. Vampiros and flautas are, more or less, tacos. It's almost always the same proteins, same pinto beans, etc. Come to think of it, I can find cochinia pibil in the Mission… at a restaurant that specializes in Oaxacan food. They've got mole (one kind), which is amusing considering that Oaxaca is a state known for it's diverse variety of moles. Anyways, back to arguing about whether SF tacos and burritos are authentic.
The second part is that Mexican food (more than other Central/South American cuisines) is seen as peasant food. You get it from a truck or a taqueria. Occasionally from some place with table service. I can think of two sorta fancy Mexican restaurants (one, if not both, have since closed). Ceviche? Well, I can get that at the Mexican grocery store or the fancy sit down Peruvian cevicheria.
The Bay Area serves up a comically thin slice of Mexican food, even compared to other parts of California or the US.
And there's two parts to this: first one is that there's not much diversity. Vampiros and flautas are, more or less, tacos. It's almost always the same proteins, same pinto beans, etc. Come to think of it, I can find cochinia pibil in the Mission… at a restaurant that specializes in Oaxacan food. They've got mole (one kind), which is amusing considering that Oaxaca is a state known for it's diverse variety of moles. Anyways, back to arguing about whether SF tacos and burritos are authentic.
The second part is that Mexican food (more than other Central/South American cuisines) is seen as peasant food. You get it from a truck or a taqueria. Occasionally from some place with table service. I can think of two sorta fancy Mexican restaurants (one, if not both, have since closed). Ceviche? Well, I can get that at the Mexican grocery store or the fancy sit down Peruvian cevicheria.
The Bay Area serves up a comically thin slice of Mexican food, even compared to other parts of California or the US.
There are four "fancy" Mexican restaurants just in downtown Mountain View, like 1% of the people and/or land in the Bay Area. It's a big place, with relatively strong Mexican food options. Probably top 5 metro in the world for it outside of Central America.
My hypothesis is that the folks who make the best Mexican food in San Diego are unlikely to want to get on a flight and be more than driving distance from Tijuana.
This! I've had better Mexican food in the Midwest than the bay.
Soledad is as good as anything in socal.
Heard of Pancho Villa?
Just ask for no rice.
Lived in the Bay Area for a few years. Do not miss the work culture, especially people around me graciously donating free extra work hours to companies worth billion/trillion dollars and expecting others to do the same.
That’s not a Bay Area issue but an American work culture issue.
I’m in a different city in California now, working for the same company I used to in the Bay Area. The office is empty at 6 pm here. In the Bay Area most people stayed till at least 7 pm, some till 9 pm regularly.
While I agree that this tendency to overwork and expecting others to do the same is a part of the American work culture, in the Bay Area it seems to be cranked up to 11.
While I agree that this tendency to overwork and expecting others to do the same is a part of the American work culture, in the Bay Area it seems to be cranked up to 11.
I grew up in the Bay Area my whole life. I simply wouldn't want to live anywhere else. The natural beauty, the politics[1], the community, the employment options.
I agree with the article on niche interests. I am a queer polyamorous trans woman and Oakland (which I consider basically "SF" for the purposes of this discussion) is a hell of a place for people like me. I think there are very few places where I could find the kind of queer community I have found here. I also recently joined an artists collective and I have been helping work on burning man art as a group, that is really cool to work with others on something like that! I can't say which city is best if you are a straight white dude working remote for a FAANG company, but for the kind of community I want, this place is a dream.
[1] On politics - I actually do not really want to talk about "SF politics" on hacker news because it is instant flamewar territory, but all I will say is I am NOT talking about the specific decisions of San Francisco politicians, which seems to be a HUGE mess and very wrapped up in special interests. I am talking about the political ideologies of regular people. As a trans woman I can walk around here and feel perfectly confident that NO ONE is going to be weird or threatening to me because of my identity. People can be gay or trans here and no one gives a shit. I can get the health care I need without issue. If I lived in London it would have been extremely hard to get the healthcare I need. And then there are other things, like the guy I saw today wearing a "#schoolsnotprisons" t-shirt. YES! I very much agree with this. And then Oakland decriminalized mushrooms (and Santa Cruz, and maybe SF did too) and there is a big push to legalize more drugs here. These are the kinds of things I mean when I say SF politics - the politics of the regular people.
I agree with the article on niche interests. I am a queer polyamorous trans woman and Oakland (which I consider basically "SF" for the purposes of this discussion) is a hell of a place for people like me. I think there are very few places where I could find the kind of queer community I have found here. I also recently joined an artists collective and I have been helping work on burning man art as a group, that is really cool to work with others on something like that! I can't say which city is best if you are a straight white dude working remote for a FAANG company, but for the kind of community I want, this place is a dream.
[1] On politics - I actually do not really want to talk about "SF politics" on hacker news because it is instant flamewar territory, but all I will say is I am NOT talking about the specific decisions of San Francisco politicians, which seems to be a HUGE mess and very wrapped up in special interests. I am talking about the political ideologies of regular people. As a trans woman I can walk around here and feel perfectly confident that NO ONE is going to be weird or threatening to me because of my identity. People can be gay or trans here and no one gives a shit. I can get the health care I need without issue. If I lived in London it would have been extremely hard to get the healthcare I need. And then there are other things, like the guy I saw today wearing a "#schoolsnotprisons" t-shirt. YES! I very much agree with this. And then Oakland decriminalized mushrooms (and Santa Cruz, and maybe SF did too) and there is a big push to legalize more drugs here. These are the kinds of things I mean when I say SF politics - the politics of the regular people.
The politics in particular are why SF is such a gross place. It shouldn’t matter whether you were born in the place you live or not, trans or not, white or not, or work for a FAANG or not.
If you’re not originally from SF, and you work in tech, and don’t have some interesting combination of race, gender, and/or sexual preference, the incumbent residents will never forgive you for it.
Unlike some parts of the US where people may secretly hate you but at least act polite, or other places where people are quick to get into confrontation, but at least they’re genuine and pretty much alright, in SF people are shitty and overtly rude.
25 years after the dot com boom, still expect people to roll their eyes or talk shit to your face for being an engineer.
Bonus points: live here long enough and you’ll encounter even grosser fringe stuff like using anti-Israeli policy as an excuse for straight-up antisemitism. Using anti-racism as an excuse for pro-car anti-pedestrian policies. Using the of environmentalism as an excuse to protect gas stations and parking lots and prevent construction of housing.
The weirdest bit is the very few people I know who were actually born here are great. The vast majority of the people using the cudgel of “oh yeah? How long have you lived here?” may only outrank you by a few years.
If you’re not originally from SF, and you work in tech, and don’t have some interesting combination of race, gender, and/or sexual preference, the incumbent residents will never forgive you for it.
Unlike some parts of the US where people may secretly hate you but at least act polite, or other places where people are quick to get into confrontation, but at least they’re genuine and pretty much alright, in SF people are shitty and overtly rude.
25 years after the dot com boom, still expect people to roll their eyes or talk shit to your face for being an engineer.
Bonus points: live here long enough and you’ll encounter even grosser fringe stuff like using anti-Israeli policy as an excuse for straight-up antisemitism. Using anti-racism as an excuse for pro-car anti-pedestrian policies. Using the of environmentalism as an excuse to protect gas stations and parking lots and prevent construction of housing.
The weirdest bit is the very few people I know who were actually born here are great. The vast majority of the people using the cudgel of “oh yeah? How long have you lived here?” may only outrank you by a few years.
SF also seems hostile towards its African-American population. There's a great first-hand report from many Black SF residents from earlier this year that was eye-opening to people not close to the issue: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskSF/comments/104qo9k/black_people...
Huh? The bay is the most racist place I’ve ever lived. For a supposedly “diverse” region everyone seems to self-segregate (compared to SoCal, for example).
As for FAANG and what not, the hate is understandable. It’s like building McMansions in historical neighborhoods.
As for FAANG and what not, the hate is understandable. It’s like building McMansions in historical neighborhoods.
Tech, is the best part of the city, without it all you’d have is the views, and the trash culture you’re alluding to.
Nothing in California is historic. If you consider 100-250 years old historic, spend some time in Europe, Asia, or even the eastern US.
Nothing in California is historic. If you consider 100-250 years old historic, spend some time in Europe, Asia, or even the eastern US.
> Tech, is the best part of the city...
And not the byproduct of the Beat culture, Suicide Club, the large queer community, and all the countless artists from SFAI/CCAC?
I'm just gonna assume this throwaway account is trolling. Ask any longtime resident and they'll tell you the city took a dive when Ed Lee handed out those Twitter tax breaks for Mid-Market.
And not the byproduct of the Beat culture, Suicide Club, the large queer community, and all the countless artists from SFAI/CCAC?
I'm just gonna assume this throwaway account is trolling. Ask any longtime resident and they'll tell you the city took a dive when Ed Lee handed out those Twitter tax breaks for Mid-Market.
> If you consider 100-250 years old historic, spend some time in Europe, Asia, or even the eastern US.
Lame, judgy gatekeeping. When someone in CA calls something historic, you might, as not actually a robot, assume that there’s some context behind it, and not just sneeringly judge them because you have something slightly older at home in Europe.
But why argue with someone who’s so terrified to put their opinion on their actual username, and had to create a throw away just to rag on SF, right? It can’t be that you plan to say anything insightful.
Lame, judgy gatekeeping. When someone in CA calls something historic, you might, as not actually a robot, assume that there’s some context behind it, and not just sneeringly judge them because you have something slightly older at home in Europe.
But why argue with someone who’s so terrified to put their opinion on their actual username, and had to create a throw away just to rag on SF, right? It can’t be that you plan to say anything insightful.
Unless you’re alleging I somehow control what’s deemed historic and what isn’t, I don’t think you’ve used the term “gatekeeping” properly.
The context of historical preservation in California, is self importance and a very successful power grab by shitty people wishing to control others.
That’s not unique to SF, but it’s a little rich when in a liberal city they’re preventing the construction of energy efficient housing, or even basic green retrofits.
Why would I want to tie my poor life decision to put roots in SF to my online persona?
The context of historical preservation in California, is self importance and a very successful power grab by shitty people wishing to control others.
That’s not unique to SF, but it’s a little rich when in a liberal city they’re preventing the construction of energy efficient housing, or even basic green retrofits.
Why would I want to tie my poor life decision to put roots in SF to my online persona?
I think I’m using “gatekeeping” exactly as colloquially used.
None of your complaints about the prevention of development have any bearing on the specific fact that the initial complaint was that “some things in other places are older.”
And lastly, because throwaway accounts are a way to disingenuously say things you’d never say with your own name tied to them. So, aside from pointing out technical inaccuracies, there’s little point in discussion - nothing said can be considered earnest or honest.
None of your complaints about the prevention of development have any bearing on the specific fact that the initial complaint was that “some things in other places are older.”
And lastly, because throwaway accounts are a way to disingenuously say things you’d never say with your own name tied to them. So, aside from pointing out technical inaccuracies, there’s little point in discussion - nothing said can be considered earnest or honest.
Love this. I’m 10 years in SF myself. One thing I would add is the people
Agreed, the dating in the bay is amazing.
Most statements I've heard about the dating scene are pretty negative for men at least. Mostly stuff like this: https://old.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/y0heqs/what_is_the...
My female straight friends flying in from LA and NYC feel like they Bay is a goldmine for women looking for ambitious partners, your "purchasing power" is a lot higher here.
At the same time, I don't think I've ever heard a single straight male praise the area for its love-life opportunities.
At the same time, I don't think I've ever heard a single straight male praise the area for its love-life opportunities.
Go to poor areas bars. I find that ladies there are very happy to find any stable man that can afford to live without roommates.
Man Jose is pretty tragic.
The peninsula and San Jose is terrible but the city and East Bay are good. Silicon valley is full of guts who have inflated egos because of their pay checks, but they have not much else going for them.
You have to make a conscious effort to avoid douchebags.
OP here – just chiming in to say I'm enjoying how nice everyone is being :D Glad to hear other folks have the same feelings towards SF!
Great article! What Chinese places do you recommend in LA? LA has great food but I find it hard to discover new places here.
Try Kaya Bakery for some more Asian inspired pastries!
This post was written by Yitong on 17 Jun 2023 in New York, NY.
Hmm
Hmm
Distance makes the heart grow fonder?
Reminds me of Seinfeld's "Yay NYC" tweet written in the Hamptons
On Chinese food:
Historically the folks who settled in San Francisco came from different areas than those who settled in New York, so the food is different. However, a friend from LA pointed out that there just isn't as much of a restaurant culture in San Francisco as there is in LA. A mediocre Taiwanese restaurant in LA wouldn't survive, but nobody would bat an eye up here because the people that really care are more inclined to cook at home. It's not just Chinese food, take a look at Mexican food here versus LA or Texas (even Bourdain complained about this). As far as the author's list goes, I was pretty underwhelmed with Z&Y. It's got a fair bit of hype but didn't deliver.
In any case, for a touch of pedantry: there are three Koi Palace locations, all on the peninsula. Equator is from Marin, but I wouldn't get so hung up on being local. Philz is fine, and so is Peets.
Historically the folks who settled in San Francisco came from different areas than those who settled in New York, so the food is different. However, a friend from LA pointed out that there just isn't as much of a restaurant culture in San Francisco as there is in LA. A mediocre Taiwanese restaurant in LA wouldn't survive, but nobody would bat an eye up here because the people that really care are more inclined to cook at home. It's not just Chinese food, take a look at Mexican food here versus LA or Texas (even Bourdain complained about this). As far as the author's list goes, I was pretty underwhelmed with Z&Y. It's got a fair bit of hype but didn't deliver.
In any case, for a touch of pedantry: there are three Koi Palace locations, all on the peninsula. Equator is from Marin, but I wouldn't get so hung up on being local. Philz is fine, and so is Peets.
Agree! I've also noticed that the # of restaurants vs. price distribution for eating out in SF falls off a cliff especially <$25 per person range, whereas there are many more options in NYC and LA. In other words, prepare to pay up, stand in line for hours or be on a reservation waitlist for the most part if you want "good" food in SF.
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This is bs, I didn't go anywhere in SF that was $25+ per plate when I lived in the mission and went out a lot. There's a ton of places in the mission and the tenderloin and I never once made a reservation anywhere.
That’s because all the restaurants in that price range are in the rest of the bay, Oakland in particular.
Oakland is still plenty expensive – banh mi are in the $7–10 range which is about double where they were fifteen years ago. Tacos are $3–4. Depending, of course, on how far east you want to venture.
$7-10 ain’t very expensive for a huge, fresh grilled, sandwich these days, no matter where you are.
LA county is massive. SF is tiny. The rest of the bay offers much more than LA. You just need to look around.
I doubt I can move back again. I tried once and the food was just terrible in contrast.
I doubt I can move back again. I tried once and the food was just terrible in contrast.
There is plenty of mediocre food in LA. My experience living in the middle of nowhere in the Midwest and also in LA suggests that the population of LA supports more restaurants at both ends of the bell curve. The best meals I’ve ever had in my life have been in LA, but there were also a ton of duds. In the Midwest, everything leans a lot more hard toward the median.
I've found that some of the highest reviewed Chinese food by my Chinese neighbors is barely recognizable and somewhat unapproachable to my western but somewhat adventurous pallet.
It is good, but you have to go in looking for an adventure and expect to not actually know what is in anything you are served. Do not go if you have any food allergies or strong preferences.
It is good, but you have to go in looking for an adventure and expect to not actually know what is in anything you are served. Do not go if you have any food allergies or strong preferences.
I've been at maybe around 8 different Chinese dumpling restaurants in SF
Every one of them had completely different dumplings than the others
All of them were delicious
For whatever reason SF has great Chinese dumplings, but like OP I have struggled to find good options for other Chinese cuisine (though I'm not a Chinese cuisine expert)
Every one of them had completely different dumplings than the others
All of them were delicious
For whatever reason SF has great Chinese dumplings, but like OP I have struggled to find good options for other Chinese cuisine (though I'm not a Chinese cuisine expert)
Historically the Chinese diaspora in San Francisco came from the southeast, which is why Cantonese was such a common language. The food largely followed that. If memory serves, NYC Chinese takeout tends to skew more towards Hunan because that's where folks were from.
Off the top of my head, the whole stretch of Taraval has a variety of Chinese restaurants focused on things other than dumplings. There's the Macau cafe, the HK bakery, the pancake place, the noodle place, the ice cream place, the Shandong place that does the pancakes. Old Mandarin (ex-Bib Gourmand) focuses on Islamic food, and their alum spawned a bunch of other restaurants including Beijing. But these are all more homey, neighborhood restaurants than you'd find in the Mission.
Honestly for something easy like mapo tofu I just make it at home. You can get all of the ingredients readily.
If you are willing to go outside the city and go with Chinese adjacent, there are a ton of options. Lion Dance Cafe (Malaysian) and Red Hot Chili Pepper (Indo-Chinese) come to mind.
Off the top of my head, the whole stretch of Taraval has a variety of Chinese restaurants focused on things other than dumplings. There's the Macau cafe, the HK bakery, the pancake place, the noodle place, the ice cream place, the Shandong place that does the pancakes. Old Mandarin (ex-Bib Gourmand) focuses on Islamic food, and their alum spawned a bunch of other restaurants including Beijing. But these are all more homey, neighborhood restaurants than you'd find in the Mission.
Honestly for something easy like mapo tofu I just make it at home. You can get all of the ingredients readily.
If you are willing to go outside the city and go with Chinese adjacent, there are a ton of options. Lion Dance Cafe (Malaysian) and Red Hot Chili Pepper (Indo-Chinese) come to mind.
Try Mama Ji's, Mister Jiu's (upscale) or Mamahuhu (casual). The mapo tofu at Mamahuhu is great, but be prepared for the spice.
Edit: looks like the author included Mister Jiu's :).
Edit: looks like the author included Mister Jiu's :).
Food is the one thing I'll give SF and the bay area. I've never lived in NYC, but I can imagine it's the only place in the US that comes close. Things are just at another level there than anywhere else I've seen.
It really depends on what you're looking for. Los Angeles, New Orleans, and Chicago all come to mind as cities with a strong food culture. I'd add Portland and Seattle too with the caveat that you've gotta be a bit more picky.
I have lived in both, SF food is amateur hour and its expensive in comparison to NYC. $4.50 for a slice of "pizza" that is really a panini open faced sandwich GTFOH.
IMO median food in NYC is much lower quality than what you can get in SF. It just is unhealthier and less fresh. Maybe for pizza or fine dining NYC is better but SF takeout just seems much more nourishing and higher quality. I’ve also been served really terrible food in NYC on several occasions, which has never happened in SF.
Yeah you can get fantastic food in SF but it requires maybe more effort to find than in other big Metros. I would speculate it's the fact that a lot of folks are vegetarian and therefore tend to cook for themselves at home: The fact that they are no longer in the "restaurant eating" pool of people negatively impacts the restaurant scene.
Also, California restaurants tend to emphasize ingredient quality over other factors- I don't know what's in a slice of pizza when I go to New York, all I know is it is delicious.
Again, just wildly speculating here
Also, California restaurants tend to emphasize ingredient quality over other factors- I don't know what's in a slice of pizza when I go to New York, all I know is it is delicious.
Again, just wildly speculating here
Honestly it’s unclear. The quality ingredient thing - maybe just marketing? Who is honestly serving quality ingredients when they cannot afford the rent or paying their staff. There’s a lot more mediocrity that flies here versus Manhattan . There are some great restaurants there but unless you are killing it or serving pasta, you are going under in like 12 months . Even standard coffee shops have great food as a result (bodegas excepted). As a data point , the tenderloin I have noticed has the best food at the best price points, if you are willing to go there.
How are you going to compare pizza in SF to NYC pizza? How many places in the world has better pizza than NYC at a lower price?
What I love most is the Persian food
I moved to Vegas, both cities have a great assortment of amazing foods.
very true
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Been living in the Bay Area for almost 10 years now. When I first came here for job interviews, I decided to stay for a few days. Rented a car and drove from Los Gatos to Santa Cruz -- I just saw the sig that said "Santa Cruz" and that sounded exotic, so I just went. What a memorable drive. Dipped my feet into the ocean after parking at some historic surfer spot, and remember how cold it was and how awesome it felt. Had interviews in SF later that week and then headed to "Marin Headlands" -- had no idea what to expect. It was a Tuesday, so not a lot of people. Saw what are probably the best views in the world from out there.
After moving here (Berkeley -- couldn't afford anything in SF without finding a roommate), I knew that the "awe" factor would take 3-5 years to fade. Every morning I would walk to BART and be greeted with flora that can be described as "alien" -- nowhere else I've seen plants of such variety just growing in peoples' front yard. On the BART ride back from SF, I would be greeted by a sunset and the views of GG bridge between MacArthur and Ashby stations, and I knew at the time that that "awe" still has a long way until it fades.
I moved to Potrero Hill soon -- rooming with with a few friends. It was such a great time living in the city in my 20s with a bunch of friends. I would walk to my office in Financial District every day. I would take the long way. I walked a lot in the city. Almost every day I would just soak in the place. The "awe" stuck around.
I also had a car that I barely put on any miles on, aside from taking random road trips. My buddy and I set the destination to "Big Sur" and just drove. It ended up taking us up some fire trails up some mountain. Then through forest roads meant for only one car going one direction.
I had a period of my life where I was living in Berkeley again, and my commute involved riding a motorcycle to the marina before the sunrise, then taking a ferry across the bay watching the sun rise above Oakland hills and the morning open up the city views. And the commute back at sunset was spectacular. That place I was living in in North Berkeley was like something out of Miyazaki movie. The neighbors knew each other. People would stop and chat on the street. This period will always be etched in my memory.
There were so so many other things I can recall from memory that keep the "awe" alive. The fires at Ocean Beach. The random dumpling places in Sunset. Discovering things like the wave organ, or that mechanical museum close to the Pier 39. Climbing up and down from Coit tower. The random bikes and walks in the GG park. Land's end "maze". Cycling the wiggle. Driving up and down the coast and staying at roadside inns. Big Sur. Big Basin. Hot springs. Tahoe trips. Russian River. etc etc....
I live in the Suburbs now. It's nice. The neighbors help each other out and know each other well. The little kids play on the streets. The older ones ride bikes through the neighborhood streets to school. The vibe is different, but it's still Bay Area. I still go on random adventures. I still feel the "awe" sometimes.
After moving here (Berkeley -- couldn't afford anything in SF without finding a roommate), I knew that the "awe" factor would take 3-5 years to fade. Every morning I would walk to BART and be greeted with flora that can be described as "alien" -- nowhere else I've seen plants of such variety just growing in peoples' front yard. On the BART ride back from SF, I would be greeted by a sunset and the views of GG bridge between MacArthur and Ashby stations, and I knew at the time that that "awe" still has a long way until it fades.
I moved to Potrero Hill soon -- rooming with with a few friends. It was such a great time living in the city in my 20s with a bunch of friends. I would walk to my office in Financial District every day. I would take the long way. I walked a lot in the city. Almost every day I would just soak in the place. The "awe" stuck around.
I also had a car that I barely put on any miles on, aside from taking random road trips. My buddy and I set the destination to "Big Sur" and just drove. It ended up taking us up some fire trails up some mountain. Then through forest roads meant for only one car going one direction.
I had a period of my life where I was living in Berkeley again, and my commute involved riding a motorcycle to the marina before the sunrise, then taking a ferry across the bay watching the sun rise above Oakland hills and the morning open up the city views. And the commute back at sunset was spectacular. That place I was living in in North Berkeley was like something out of Miyazaki movie. The neighbors knew each other. People would stop and chat on the street. This period will always be etched in my memory.
There were so so many other things I can recall from memory that keep the "awe" alive. The fires at Ocean Beach. The random dumpling places in Sunset. Discovering things like the wave organ, or that mechanical museum close to the Pier 39. Climbing up and down from Coit tower. The random bikes and walks in the GG park. Land's end "maze". Cycling the wiggle. Driving up and down the coast and staying at roadside inns. Big Sur. Big Basin. Hot springs. Tahoe trips. Russian River. etc etc....
I live in the Suburbs now. It's nice. The neighbors help each other out and know each other well. The little kids play on the streets. The older ones ride bikes through the neighborhood streets to school. The vibe is different, but it's still Bay Area. I still go on random adventures. I still feel the "awe" sometimes.
had to stop reading when the first suggestion was "steps and slides" and the picture showed a slide apparently made out of rough concrete.
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wyclif(2)
But I hated the Bay Area for the people. Not that anyone was particularly nasty or mean, they were just flaky. The number of cancelled plans, far, far outnumbered the kept ones.
I'm open to the idea it was just me, but I know we weren't the only people experiencing this – and I have a much easier time of it in other cities where I've lived – Amsterdam, London, and NYC.