The “Do Something About It” Club(chavanniclass.com)
chavanniclass.com
The “Do Something About It” Club
https://chavanniclass.com/2023/09/16/48-the-do-something-about-it-club/
121 comments
I think this is basically true. We’ve got a tendency towards hero culture as a society, in which we expect one person to solve the problem. That fails on almost any problem of reasonable size and impact - you yourself cannot solve, say, climate change - and it leads us to feel like we’re not doing anything if we’re not doing everything.
I’ve come to think of it more like I’m on this boat with everyone else - I can’t do anything on my own, but taking my turn at the oars contributes to the journey. You can’t do everything, so at least be a net positive - be the kind of person where if everyone acted like you, it’d make the world you want to live in.
I’ve come to think of it more like I’m on this boat with everyone else - I can’t do anything on my own, but taking my turn at the oars contributes to the journey. You can’t do everything, so at least be a net positive - be the kind of person where if everyone acted like you, it’d make the world you want to live in.
>We’ve got a tendency towards hero culture as a society, in which we expect one person to solve the problem. That fails on almost any problem of reasonable size and impact - you yourself cannot solve, say, climate change - and it leads us to feel like we’re not doing anything if we’re not doing everything.
Being a hero is far more exciting and feels more "action-oriented" than the actual solution to most problems: consistent concerted effort over a long period of time. But it's the latter that actually works, whether in something as personal as healthy living or something as broad as national policy.
Being a hero is far more exciting and feels more "action-oriented" than the actual solution to most problems: consistent concerted effort over a long period of time. But it's the latter that actually works, whether in something as personal as healthy living or something as broad as national policy.
> be the kind of person where if everyone acted like you, it’d make the world you want to live in.
My wife and I think exactly this way and we did just that: precisely for that very reason, we decided to have one kid. Not three. Not two (could have happened with twins but that's uncommon).
And if everybody were to do like us for a few generations, most of our problems would be solved in a few generations (and couple could start having two kids on average again).
And I do not care about the broken promises of failing states who need ever more young people to pay for the impossible-to-sustain pension schemes.
My wife and I think exactly this way and we did just that: precisely for that very reason, we decided to have one kid. Not three. Not two (could have happened with twins but that's uncommon).
And if everybody were to do like us for a few generations, most of our problems would be solved in a few generations (and couple could start having two kids on average again).
And I do not care about the broken promises of failing states who need ever more young people to pay for the impossible-to-sustain pension schemes.
Depopulation won't fix it. The problem is greed. But you live the life you want to live. It ain't hurting anyone.
What makes the world valuable to you (or say more valuable than some other beautiful planet lightyears away)? Probably that more people (or intelligence in general) can experience it. Less people seems counterproductive then.
I think your reasoning only works as a concept in your head. As a short-lived dream were you can enjoy an image of the world in a future state.
I think your reasoning only works as a concept in your head. As a short-lived dream were you can enjoy an image of the world in a future state.
> We’ve got a tendency towards hero culture as a society, in which we expect one person to solve the problem. That fails on almost any problem of reasonable size and impact
We're past hero culture as far as I can tell. We're firmly in superhero culture aka entertainment divorced from reality.
Also, I don't think there exists a coherent culture anymore. 'Anyone can do whatever they want as long as I get mine' is not a culture - it's a canary in the coalmine and the canary is dead.
We're past hero culture as far as I can tell. We're firmly in superhero culture aka entertainment divorced from reality.
Also, I don't think there exists a coherent culture anymore. 'Anyone can do whatever they want as long as I get mine' is not a culture - it's a canary in the coalmine and the canary is dead.
I'm glad that I recognized that we (Gen Z) were growing up with this narrative pretty early on--if you get a job, you have to be best in the field. If you start something, it has to be big. Small successes or positive changes just weren't adequate. I wrote about this in more detail here: https://www.tor.com/2021/05/25/anyone-can-be-a-hero-in-brand... and I said it better in this paragraph than I can right now:
"Because the real world has never been saved by a few superheroes. It has always saved itself on its own, each person doing their own little bit. In the real world, although many people feel—and sometimes are—helpless because they’re not the “right” gender or race or caste or class, there are many, many more people who have made their own little impacts on the lives of others, be it buying groceries for elderly neighbors during the lockdown, running a lemonade stand to raise funds for cancer treatment, offering free therapy, teaching kids in slums, or distributing food to protesters. Our world is humanity’s collective effort, one big project that we always keep working on.
The problems all of us are fighting are too big to change individually—they are too massive in scope, with too many variables. But collectively we have changed some things for the better, and we’ve done it by being whoever we are and doing what we can, while also learning and taking tiny steps forward..."
"Because the real world has never been saved by a few superheroes. It has always saved itself on its own, each person doing their own little bit. In the real world, although many people feel—and sometimes are—helpless because they’re not the “right” gender or race or caste or class, there are many, many more people who have made their own little impacts on the lives of others, be it buying groceries for elderly neighbors during the lockdown, running a lemonade stand to raise funds for cancer treatment, offering free therapy, teaching kids in slums, or distributing food to protesters. Our world is humanity’s collective effort, one big project that we always keep working on.
The problems all of us are fighting are too big to change individually—they are too massive in scope, with too many variables. But collectively we have changed some things for the better, and we’ve done it by being whoever we are and doing what we can, while also learning and taking tiny steps forward..."
The way I see it is that all living systems inevitably grow in complexity until they decay and die. This is their nature. As we are part of the system we can't help feeling trapped when the decay and pain is creeping in, but if we can take a larger (Taoist) look at the processes and flow itself then we can find peace as well as our own place within that flow.
By letting go we can achieve the greatest well-being for ourselves and others. We can perform our work and step back, letting things be as they are. The only way they can ever be.
By letting go we can achieve the greatest well-being for ourselves and others. We can perform our work and step back, letting things be as they are. The only way they can ever be.
> you yourself cannot solve, say, climate change
Could one person maybe catalyze the solving of climate change though?
Could one person maybe catalyze the solving of climate change though?
They can maybe make an impact... Maybe... but the problem I find is that anyone out front who's not actually "doing" anything beyond "catalyzing" is often viewed by the converts as a messiah and the skeptics as a charlatan. See: Greta Thunberg, Al Gore, etc. If they have a track record of execution in a different field they get a little more credibility, but still lots of derision. Ex: Bill Gates.
In theory, sure, maybe. In practice, there’s a lot more oars than wheels and a lot more of them seem to sit empty for want of people willing to do the work.
Maybe, but most of what I see people doing is doomscrolling and shitposting. It feels like doing something but the primary output is anxiety.
Absolutely. Although the most impactful changes need to be done at a large level, there are two things that need to happen locally that one person absolutely can do:
1. Lots of issues within local government related to transportation, buildings, energy (these issues intersect closely with climate change) come up without members from the public saying anything. Having one voice from a normal member of the public (not a lobbyist, not an activist, not a government staff person, not a journalist, not someone paid to be there) gets attention from policy makers, it says people really care and elected officials should act accordingly.
2. There are a lot of groups out there doing work and pushing for policy changes with varying levels of “spice” (spice being how much they try to influence elections and get public attention) these are groups like rotary clubs, environmental voter project, citizens climate lobby, 350.org, Sierra club, sunrise, third act, extinction rebellion, and many more. Some are active in your community. The work of connecting between them and other parts of the community is crucial because coalitions need to be made and that is hard work. If you are involved in a group (company, neighborhood association, hoa, club, trade group, professional organization, any kind of group) that is interested in doing anything on climate, you could be a connector between them and a policy advocacy group. Find ways to work together towards a set of common goals. That’s when outcomes really start to proliferate.
1. Lots of issues within local government related to transportation, buildings, energy (these issues intersect closely with climate change) come up without members from the public saying anything. Having one voice from a normal member of the public (not a lobbyist, not an activist, not a government staff person, not a journalist, not someone paid to be there) gets attention from policy makers, it says people really care and elected officials should act accordingly.
2. There are a lot of groups out there doing work and pushing for policy changes with varying levels of “spice” (spice being how much they try to influence elections and get public attention) these are groups like rotary clubs, environmental voter project, citizens climate lobby, 350.org, Sierra club, sunrise, third act, extinction rebellion, and many more. Some are active in your community. The work of connecting between them and other parts of the community is crucial because coalitions need to be made and that is hard work. If you are involved in a group (company, neighborhood association, hoa, club, trade group, professional organization, any kind of group) that is interested in doing anything on climate, you could be a connector between them and a policy advocacy group. Find ways to work together towards a set of common goals. That’s when outcomes really start to proliferate.
The problem with this sort of thinking is that there are people who actually put energy into that and actually change the world.
The last decade, it was the alt-right folks who managed to transform the society up to a point where governments and lives of those targeted by the alt-right have changed significantly.
Voting, policy on civil or environmental matters, rights etc. all seem like nothing ever changes by activism and yet they changed quite significantly over time.
The last decade, it was the alt-right folks who managed to transform the society up to a point where governments and lives of those targeted by the alt-right have changed significantly.
Voting, policy on civil or environmental matters, rights etc. all seem like nothing ever changes by activism and yet they changed quite significantly over time.
“The best lack all conviction, while the worst / Are full of passionate intensity.”
That sounds like a great slogan for a kinky dating web site.
It's relevant because good sex probably has a diminishing effect on polarization between the participants.
Or in some encounters, among the participants. :)
I offer into evidence the social behavior of bonobos when they get stressed.
It's relevant because good sex probably has a diminishing effect on polarization between the participants.
Or in some encounters, among the participants. :)
I offer into evidence the social behavior of bonobos when they get stressed.
> civboot.org
I'm guessing you are already familiar with the Long Now Foundation? Visiting their social hub (it's a bar with weekly talks) in SF, called The Interval, is lovely for many reasons, one of them being their Manual of Civilization[1], a curated library of books whose aim is to collate all the information necessary to build civilization back to where it is now in the event of some catastrophic disruption.
[1] https://medium.com/the-long-now-foundation/manual-for-civili...
I'm guessing you are already familiar with the Long Now Foundation? Visiting their social hub (it's a bar with weekly talks) in SF, called The Interval, is lovely for many reasons, one of them being their Manual of Civilization[1], a curated library of books whose aim is to collate all the information necessary to build civilization back to where it is now in the event of some catastrophic disruption.
[1] https://medium.com/the-long-now-foundation/manual-for-civili...
I thought I was familiar, but now I think I confused it with a different project. I'll have to look into it more deeply, thanks.
Those are the values of a housewife - family, relationship, sunset, hobbies.
Then there are the men who build and maintain the world the housewife and the kids live in.
Unless we're cool with the modern way of life collapsing and us going back to 'the good old days' - men need to care deeply about the modern way of life and understand what makes it tick.
Not every man of course but the overall direction of men adopting the values of housewives and thinking modern society is just this given, that it'll just continue chugging along and I can only care about myself (and my family) - that's a very dangerous fantasy.
Then there are the men who build and maintain the world the housewife and the kids live in.
Unless we're cool with the modern way of life collapsing and us going back to 'the good old days' - men need to care deeply about the modern way of life and understand what makes it tick.
Not every man of course but the overall direction of men adopting the values of housewives and thinking modern society is just this given, that it'll just continue chugging along and I can only care about myself (and my family) - that's a very dangerous fantasy.
Tao de ching 42
---
All things have their backs to the female
and stand facing the male.
when male and female combine,
all things achieve harmony.
----
Ordinary men hate solitude,
But the Master makes use of it,
embracing his aloneness, realizing
he is one with the whole universe.
---
All things have their backs to the female
and stand facing the male.
when male and female combine,
all things achieve harmony.
----
Ordinary men hate solitude,
But the Master makes use of it,
embracing his aloneness, realizing
he is one with the whole universe.
If you think meditating on a cushion in your bedroom whilst your kitchen is on fire is harmony - life will soon show you otherwise.
100%
My biggest example of this is cutting out reading the news. It's been great - all the news brought me was constant negativity about things out of my control
My biggest example of this is cutting out reading the news. It's been great - all the news brought me was constant negativity about things out of my control
I believe this is a relatively recent construct, because "the news" isn't really about that anymore. Even the last hold-outs, the national or public outlets have stopped presenting balanced "state of the world" and shifted to either negative, headline, click-driving OR agenda-based propaganda. My wife is still very in-touch with current events and finds it hilarious when I tell her about this "new topic" when in reality I'm coming in to the third or fourth wave of the story fresh. My life is better without "The News" IMO.
Your particular life might be, but it's likely because you are comfortable.
The point of news is social change or social control (depending on who owns it), and the kind of news you lament being gone was never actually neutral. It also was in no way how news started.
You want your power company to not dump coal waste in rivers? Get some press.
You want buildings to be retired to be accessible because you are a wheelchair user? Get the press to care about it.
If you are a service member or a NYC firefighter who wants the government to be accountable for giving you cancer because of burn pits or 9/11 toxic waste? Hammer the gov in the press
You want to stop the NSA from spying on Americans? Leak insider docs to the press.
You want better media? Subscribe and pay for it.
The point of news is social change or social control (depending on who owns it), and the kind of news you lament being gone was never actually neutral. It also was in no way how news started.
You want your power company to not dump coal waste in rivers? Get some press.
You want buildings to be retired to be accessible because you are a wheelchair user? Get the press to care about it.
If you are a service member or a NYC firefighter who wants the government to be accountable for giving you cancer because of burn pits or 9/11 toxic waste? Hammer the gov in the press
You want to stop the NSA from spying on Americans? Leak insider docs to the press.
You want better media? Subscribe and pay for it.
…the man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.
- Thomas Jefferson
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/3237870-the-man-who-never-l...
- Thomas Jefferson
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/3237870-the-man-who-never-l...
If your mental health demands it, sure. Save yourself first. Wear your own mask before helping others.
But helping others is not optional. Not for a moral person anyway. Apparently no one nowadays is.
But helping others is not optional. Not for a moral person anyway. Apparently no one nowadays is.
Author here. These are also things I believe in, although it took several years of climate anxiety and therapy to understand that one person alone can't fix everything. So I've started focusing on doing some good every day--most days, it's the small things, like doing extra chores, babysitting the neighbor's kid, tutoring a little girl who lost her father recently, etc. These won't change the world, but at least I'm adding some good to it.
> MOST things you can read about on the Internet fall into this category
This is why I deleted almost every social media and am very selective about the content I consume, so the stuff that does land in my inbox is stuff that has scope for taking action--I unsubscribed from everything that talked about things I couldn't do anything about personally.
> MOST things you can read about on the Internet fall into this category
This is why I deleted almost every social media and am very selective about the content I consume, so the stuff that does land in my inbox is stuff that has scope for taking action--I unsubscribed from everything that talked about things I couldn't do anything about personally.
Hey thanks for the article. 100% agree on social media and doing the small stuff. HN is about the only one I use and i try to take month long breaks regularly
I think there is great wisdom in your comment, but I am struggling to recieve it. Can you give examples for #1 please?
It's mostly derived from ancient Stoics and Taoist thinking.
Think about death and it's inevitability. Since it is inevitable there is little value in fearing it.
Or think about trying to change other people's minds. You have little/no control of their thinking. As long as you are enjoying the process of discussion then great, discuss for its own sake. But being stressed about it makes no sense.
You have quite a lot of control of your own habits, circumstances and growth -- and by focusing on them the world will be a better place than if you focused on things you had no control over. There will always be pain and evil as long as there is joy and life, so don't worry too much about fixing that.
Think about death and it's inevitability. Since it is inevitable there is little value in fearing it.
Or think about trying to change other people's minds. You have little/no control of their thinking. As long as you are enjoying the process of discussion then great, discuss for its own sake. But being stressed about it makes no sense.
You have quite a lot of control of your own habits, circumstances and growth -- and by focusing on them the world will be a better place than if you focused on things you had no control over. There will always be pain and evil as long as there is joy and life, so don't worry too much about fixing that.
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For me, I identified as a person who loved learning.
And then, I started viewing my need to learn random stuff as . . . A way to distract myself.
Now when I feel the tug to set a learning goal, I step back and feel what’s behind it.
Is this goal really the best use of my time? Or is there a big fear I’m avoiding or pull toward validation that I’m seeking in this moment?
I’ve learned so much from not reading :)
And then, I started viewing my need to learn random stuff as . . . A way to distract myself.
Now when I feel the tug to set a learning goal, I step back and feel what’s behind it.
Is this goal really the best use of my time? Or is there a big fear I’m avoiding or pull toward validation that I’m seeking in this moment?
I’ve learned so much from not reading :)
This seems relevant to me. I also identify as a person who “loves learning new things”. Playing an instrument was a hobby I used to pursue with passion. Now it seems like it’s running its course and I’m not feeling as passionate about it as I used to. This has been happening for a while but a part of me didn’t want to admit this, and I’d force myself to pursue it even when I didn’t feel like it. Of course, I didn’t make the same progress at getting better as I did in the first few passionate years.
I am now in a phase where I am letting things take whatever course they have to. No longer am I trying to achieve an objective of getting “better” and being ok with knowing that if I don’t feel like it, I needn’t pressure myself to pursue it.
I realised that I was trying to prove myself to other people. That if I get better at the instrument, people will be wowed and will like me more and that will give me validation. So I realised that at least a part of the motivation was public approval. Meditation and therapy have helped me realise that my craving for validation cannot be fixed by more validation. And this has made it easy for me to let go.
Who knows what comes next? I can only accept myself and go with the flow :)
I am now in a phase where I am letting things take whatever course they have to. No longer am I trying to achieve an objective of getting “better” and being ok with knowing that if I don’t feel like it, I needn’t pressure myself to pursue it.
I realised that I was trying to prove myself to other people. That if I get better at the instrument, people will be wowed and will like me more and that will give me validation. So I realised that at least a part of the motivation was public approval. Meditation and therapy have helped me realise that my craving for validation cannot be fixed by more validation. And this has made it easy for me to let go.
Who knows what comes next? I can only accept myself and go with the flow :)
One thing I've noticed about myself, and I sense some of it in what you're saying, is that I really like the easy part of learning new things. When you first start to learn something new, the "gains" come easily. You get this very satisfying feedback loop, going from knowing nothing to being able do some small thing quickly.
But then, the hard part, the part requiring discipline comes in. In the example of learning an instrument, maybe you learn your first pentatonic box on the guitar, and you get a quick hit of satisfaction when you can improvise something pleasant. But then you start to realize, as you learn more, that there's a huge amount of practice required to take you to the point where you can shred a solo.
This is where I often lose interest in some new hobby, personally. And the truth is, there's just not enough time in a life to truly master that many different things.
With that said, though, I think there can still be value in learning the basics of something new. It can tell your whether you enjoy that thing enough to keep investing in it, and you can often go quite far with basic skills. I'll never be a master woodworker, but I'm happy that I learned the first 50%, because that's enough to do some basic house repairs or build a shelf. I'll never be a great piano player, but I learned enough to be able to lay down some chords when I'm working on some music. I'm not going to be a full time drummer, but I can do a basic 4/4 beat when we're all drunk at the end of a jam session and switch instruments for shits and giggles.
I think it's just important to be realistic about how far basics take you and whether you're really going to invest the time it takes to make learning things worthwhile - or if, like you describe, that effort is feeding some other impulse that's not worth your time.
But it is ok to learn new things just because it's fun, and there's a lot of fun to be had being a generalist. So it's really (just like all things in life) just a balance that you need to figure out how you want to strike.
But then, the hard part, the part requiring discipline comes in. In the example of learning an instrument, maybe you learn your first pentatonic box on the guitar, and you get a quick hit of satisfaction when you can improvise something pleasant. But then you start to realize, as you learn more, that there's a huge amount of practice required to take you to the point where you can shred a solo.
This is where I often lose interest in some new hobby, personally. And the truth is, there's just not enough time in a life to truly master that many different things.
With that said, though, I think there can still be value in learning the basics of something new. It can tell your whether you enjoy that thing enough to keep investing in it, and you can often go quite far with basic skills. I'll never be a master woodworker, but I'm happy that I learned the first 50%, because that's enough to do some basic house repairs or build a shelf. I'll never be a great piano player, but I learned enough to be able to lay down some chords when I'm working on some music. I'm not going to be a full time drummer, but I can do a basic 4/4 beat when we're all drunk at the end of a jam session and switch instruments for shits and giggles.
I think it's just important to be realistic about how far basics take you and whether you're really going to invest the time it takes to make learning things worthwhile - or if, like you describe, that effort is feeding some other impulse that's not worth your time.
But it is ok to learn new things just because it's fun, and there's a lot of fun to be had being a generalist. So it's really (just like all things in life) just a balance that you need to figure out how you want to strike.
Something that struck this home for me was noticing the Freakonomics podcast, “teach me something I don’t know“. That taught me that scratching the itch to learn and novelty can just be pure entertainment, and not some grand purpose or value that’s intrinsically any better than other forms of entertainment. That realization made me more choosy about when or how I get sucked into learning.
oh my god, this just opened my eyes. i've been a lifelong learner, but it all stems from being a little kid who used books to escape a shitty childhood. i am always "learning" but also always exhausted and i legit didn't put this all together until now. i'm gonna try this.
Happy trails!
Yep, my reading peaked when I read 45,000 pages of books in a year, including many classics and large non-fiction (think Gödel Escher Bach). Then I realized my life wasn’t all that much better for it and other areas of my life were suffering. I still love reading, but all things in moderation.
I am always torn between reading and not reading. I think reading energizes me regardless of whether I can effect change on the topic. Simply having awareness can be beneficial on some level. But I do see your point about prioritization and opportunity cost. It’s hard to balance.
> I am always torn between reading and not reading. I think reading energizes me regardless of whether I can effect change on the topic.
If it energises you/brings you joy, then why question it?
> Simply having awareness can be beneficial on some level.
It is, but what I realised at one point that there are just too many things to fix and you can spend your entire life becoming aware about them. I think it's better to choose a few or even one problem and go deep or actually do something. But, as I wrote in the post, that's something that works well for me. YMVV.
Edit: John Green explains this well in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bew3EMicf8g
If it energises you/brings you joy, then why question it?
> Simply having awareness can be beneficial on some level.
It is, but what I realised at one point that there are just too many things to fix and you can spend your entire life becoming aware about them. I think it's better to choose a few or even one problem and go deep or actually do something. But, as I wrote in the post, that's something that works well for me. YMVV.
Edit: John Green explains this well in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bew3EMicf8g
> I’ve learned so much from not reading :)
Same here! Since realising that, I've not been so worried about reading everything I've saved, or even thinking that I have to read everything I come across just because "you learn something new every day." I graduated a year ago and have done lots of work and reading since. How different would my life have been if I'd applied even 10% of what I learn?
I still love learning stuff, but now--unless it's required for work--don't go looking for things to learn. I am doing much more as a result and I'm happier than I was when I simply spent my days learning.
Same here! Since realising that, I've not been so worried about reading everything I've saved, or even thinking that I have to read everything I come across just because "you learn something new every day." I graduated a year ago and have done lots of work and reading since. How different would my life have been if I'd applied even 10% of what I learn?
I still love learning stuff, but now--unless it's required for work--don't go looking for things to learn. I am doing much more as a result and I'm happier than I was when I simply spent my days learning.
How about doing stuff outside consuming Internet content? Then you are forced to interact with the real world, where taking action is the default. Take it from somebody very recently recovered from the digital loop: I have lost tons of time ruminating while life flowed out the window, screen, etc.
By the way, is spawning new tabs while waiting for a website to load in order to keep oneself occupied really a thing?
By the way, is spawning new tabs while waiting for a website to load in order to keep oneself occupied really a thing?
> By the way, is spawning new tabs while waiting for a website to load in order to keep oneself occupied really a thing?
You have no idea. Absolutely no idea. I'll usually open 3 or 4 tabs before a single one finishes loading. You, have, no, idea. ADHD is insane.
You have no idea. Absolutely no idea. I'll usually open 3 or 4 tabs before a single one finishes loading. You, have, no, idea. ADHD is insane.
Agreed. Something I like about Orion (and other browsers will do it with a plugin). Aside from vertical tabs showing the full title (very useful), you can close the whole tab tree once done with the subject. I've gone from 600+ tabs open on average to 80-100.
Surprisingly, I don't have issues with having way too many tabs open. Right now I have 6 normal tabs open, 4 always-open tabs for email, spreadsheet, calendar and Discord, and one extra Discord tab open in another profile because DID. So 11 in total.
It's because I close old tabs all the time, but I constantly need to open more because otherwise I get extremely extremely bored.
It's because I close old tabs all the time, but I constantly need to open more because otherwise I get extremely extremely bored.
> By the way, is spawning new tabs while waiting for a website to load in order to keep oneself occupied really a thing?
Definitely. I open up 8-20 tabs at once and go to the one that finishes loading first
Definitely. I open up 8-20 tabs at once and go to the one that finishes loading first
> the real world, where taking action is the default.
That seems overly simple, I don't think it is a solution per se. I can think of a million real world things, where taking action is not the default.
> By the way, is spawning new tabs while waiting for a website to load in order to keep oneself occupied really a thing?
Yes, sometimes. Particularly HN is a good intermediate, because it loads so fast.
That seems overly simple, I don't think it is a solution per se. I can think of a million real world things, where taking action is not the default.
> By the way, is spawning new tabs while waiting for a website to load in order to keep oneself occupied really a thing?
Yes, sometimes. Particularly HN is a good intermediate, because it loads so fast.
>> I have lost tons of time ruminating while life flowed out the window, screen, etc.
Agree. And also I think the same about the working hours that companies makes us to commit.
Agree. And also I think the same about the working hours that companies makes us to commit.
> How about doing stuff outside consuming Internet content? Then you are forced to interact with the real world, where taking action is the default.
That is the goal. Consuming stuff on the internet is just one of the things I do throughout the day and even there I've minimised it as much as possible: I've deleted almost every social media, I use LinkedIn with a timer (browser blocks in automatically). I'm subscribed to a limited number of newsletters and even then I don't immediately read them--hence all the bookmarks.
> Take it from somebody very recently recovered from the digital loop: I have lost tons of time ruminating while life flowed out the window, screen, etc.
This is why I recently started using my laptop and phone with a timer: I give myself a total of 4 hours to use both screens (although I don't count listening to music while doing chores as screentime--we're all big music lovers in our family). Of course, I can do this because I'm a freelancer and not the breadwinner of the house. All people I respect have told me that when I have this advantage, I should use it.
Funnily, having a timer has helped me get more work done than I did when I took laptop use for granted: I'm almost done with the second issue of my magazine in less than 4 days when the first one took 2 whole weeks.
> By the way, is spawning new tabs while waiting for a website to load in order to keep oneself occupied really a thing?
I used to do this a lot until I recently started applying the principles of slow living and doing one thing at a time.
That is the goal. Consuming stuff on the internet is just one of the things I do throughout the day and even there I've minimised it as much as possible: I've deleted almost every social media, I use LinkedIn with a timer (browser blocks in automatically). I'm subscribed to a limited number of newsletters and even then I don't immediately read them--hence all the bookmarks.
> Take it from somebody very recently recovered from the digital loop: I have lost tons of time ruminating while life flowed out the window, screen, etc.
This is why I recently started using my laptop and phone with a timer: I give myself a total of 4 hours to use both screens (although I don't count listening to music while doing chores as screentime--we're all big music lovers in our family). Of course, I can do this because I'm a freelancer and not the breadwinner of the house. All people I respect have told me that when I have this advantage, I should use it.
Funnily, having a timer has helped me get more work done than I did when I took laptop use for granted: I'm almost done with the second issue of my magazine in less than 4 days when the first one took 2 whole weeks.
> By the way, is spawning new tabs while waiting for a website to load in order to keep oneself occupied really a thing?
I used to do this a lot until I recently started applying the principles of slow living and doing one thing at a time.
If a website is taking so long to load that I get bored I just close it.
I check if it's on the internet archive...
I really enjoyed the time and writing style of this! I had a bit of a laugh when the author described how they read and think too much and wanted to take action - then the solution is a club who who .. meet to talk about taking action :)
I propose a different club rule: You can write/post/meet up/etc but for every one thing you do talking/thinking, you have to have already taken that action in real life! IE read a book about going to the gym? Don’t meet to talk about it, but go to the gym and talk about it after!
I propose a different club rule: You can write/post/meet up/etc but for every one thing you do talking/thinking, you have to have already taken that action in real life! IE read a book about going to the gym? Don’t meet to talk about it, but go to the gym and talk about it after!
> I really enjoyed the time and writing style of this!
Hi, author here. I'm glad you liked it--I don't get to hear this often. :)
> I had a bit of a laugh when the author described how they read and think too much and wanted to take action - then the solution is a club who who .. meet to talk about taking action :)
I wrote this post in a hurry because I'd have broken my streak otherwise and so didn't really spend much time on it. I just made a quick note and posted it online because I've recently started treating the blog like an open notebook rather than thinking that everything that goes on it has to be something I've thought about for ages and then executed perfectly; that helps with ignoring my perfectionism. I didn't think it would make it to HN. (I was hoping that would happen to a different post.)
All of this to say that: when I had the idea, I imagined us doing things and reporting on them, but I forgot to mention it in the post. I've added the update after seeing your comment, so thanks for pointing it out!
Hi, author here. I'm glad you liked it--I don't get to hear this often. :)
> I had a bit of a laugh when the author described how they read and think too much and wanted to take action - then the solution is a club who who .. meet to talk about taking action :)
I wrote this post in a hurry because I'd have broken my streak otherwise and so didn't really spend much time on it. I just made a quick note and posted it online because I've recently started treating the blog like an open notebook rather than thinking that everything that goes on it has to be something I've thought about for ages and then executed perfectly; that helps with ignoring my perfectionism. I didn't think it would make it to HN. (I was hoping that would happen to a different post.)
All of this to say that: when I had the idea, I imagined us doing things and reporting on them, but I forgot to mention it in the post. I've added the update after seeing your comment, so thanks for pointing it out!
By the way your idea sounds a lot like how the Royal Society started. [0] You are following in the footsteps of giants.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Society
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Society
One can dream :)
I look at it as an accountability club where there is a pact o show what you did
> the solution is a club who who .. meet to talk about taking action
Touché.
On the other hand this is one of the reasons why it's hard not to love the rest of humanity. The results are sometimes comical, but we're all trying.
Touché.
On the other hand this is one of the reasons why it's hard not to love the rest of humanity. The results are sometimes comical, but we're all trying.
ah, yes. a bragging club
I read the comment as being the whole group going to the activity and talking about it afterward, again as a group. A “gym club” doesn’t necessarily “brag amongst themselves” about their activities; they just talk about the activity.
an exclusive club would provide an incentive to accomplish things
> ah, yes. a bragging club
Book clubs tend to be organized around sharing thoughts about the books the participants have read, and I never heard of those being referred to as bragging hotspots.
Book clubs tend to be organized around sharing thoughts about the books the participants have read, and I never heard of those being referred to as bragging hotspots.
simply ingesting an inexpensive consumer product is not much to brag about. maybe they're talking about art
> simply ingesting an inexpensive consumer product is not much to brag about. maybe they're talking about art
Your broad-stroke condescending attitude towards others make you sound like you wear a fedora. If you have insecurities to deal with, don't deal with them by trying to drag others into your personal issues.
Your broad-stroke condescending attitude towards others make you sound like you wear a fedora. If you have insecurities to deal with, don't deal with them by trying to drag others into your personal issues.
Broad-stroke? Surely you have an actual point to make that isn't tone-policing. I get that you're just dumping your raw thoughts onto the internet but your non-sequiturs and inapt analogies really hurt discussion.
I'm here to counteract the rampant muddled thinking that goes on here. Nobody else is willing to point out obviously flawed arguments, so consider it a service. (Hell, in the other thread, people think that grocery stores are pulling in 43 percent gross margins. Apple, Inc. would be jealous!)
I'm here to counteract the rampant muddled thinking that goes on here. Nobody else is willing to point out obviously flawed arguments, so consider it a service. (Hell, in the other thread, people think that grocery stores are pulling in 43 percent gross margins. Apple, Inc. would be jealous!)
> Broad-stroke? Surely you have an actual point to make
Yes, and I did. Read the message. It's clear and straight to the point.
Yes, and I did. Read the message. It's clear and straight to the point.
Nobody cares about your narcissistic tangent. Hijack someone else's thread.
also that's the gayest tone policing I've seen in years
More like a writer’s club. No point showing up without pages.
The author seems to have things backwards. They want to read/learn something first, then figure out, with a group of people, what they can do to apply that newfound knowledge.
They might appreciate their efforts more if they instead decided to take action on a thing, and then found material to learn that can help them take that course of action.
They might appreciate their efforts more if they instead decided to take action on a thing, and then found material to learn that can help them take that course of action.
Hi, author here. I think it can go both ways. You learn there's a problem, then try to solve it, then go back to learn more to come up with a better solution.
Or you can do something, find out it's not working, then learn more about it to fill the holes in your knowledge.
> They might appreciate their efforts more if they instead decided to take action on a thing
We also need to know that there's a problem before we can do something about it. You can't fix a problem you don't know exists.
Or you can do something, find out it's not working, then learn more about it to fill the holes in your knowledge.
> They might appreciate their efforts more if they instead decided to take action on a thing
We also need to know that there's a problem before we can do something about it. You can't fix a problem you don't know exists.
My hunch is that this club won’t work because it fundamentally is just another distraction from the goal here: which is to actually do something. Just do it.
(Digression) “One of the realizations has been that I read too much, take too many notes, yet don’t really do anything with this new information.“ I feel the underlying reason for this is due to years of the education system drilling into our heads the value of notes and memorisations for the purpose of exam taking. But once you are out of the system, this technique becomes useless as it excels at one type of thing. However, it’s also ironically the technique that brings success as cause you did well in your exams / interviews, you can do the job . I think once you “do things” though it’s a whole different ball game.
(Digression) “One of the realizations has been that I read too much, take too many notes, yet don’t really do anything with this new information.“ I feel the underlying reason for this is due to years of the education system drilling into our heads the value of notes and memorisations for the purpose of exam taking. But once you are out of the system, this technique becomes useless as it excels at one type of thing. However, it’s also ironically the technique that brings success as cause you did well in your exams / interviews, you can do the job . I think once you “do things” though it’s a whole different ball game.
> My hunch is that this club won’t work because it fundamentally is just another distraction from the goal here: which is to actually do something. Just do it.
Hi, as I wrote in the comment above: I was in a hurry when I posted this so didn't notice that the obvious point was missing--that we meet to find solutions and implement them. I've added the edit.
And, yes, the solution is to actually do it--which I realised only because I had an idea for launching a magazine and then actually did it in less than a month. It was the first time I'd ended up acting on an idea so soon after having it, which is what inspired the line of thinking that ultimately led to the idea of the club.
> I feel the underlying reason for this is due to years of the education system drilling into our heads the value of notes and memorisations for the purpose of exam taking.
I was educated in India, so I don't blame the education system (for this particular habit). I'd been the topper in school and was fond of note-taking. I still keep a commonplace book because it's my primary hobby. I love collecting beautiful passages from books and the internet and notes help me simplify concepts for others--I've been tutoring kids for years and I like being able to take information and simplify it for others.
But the habit has gone out of hand when it comes to online note-taking, as I discussed in a different post: it's very-easy to copy-paste stuff, add a million tags, and feel good about it. I've since switched to taking notes by hand ONLY--and because that takes effort, I only take notes on the things I really want to remember. And they're succinct because then I copy just the gist, which is what's truly needed 90% of the time.
> I think once you “do things” though it’s a whole different ball game.
I started doing this sometime near the end of August and I couldn't agree more--a lot of good things have happened since. Oliver Burkeman's writing helped me get there: https://www.oliverburkeman.com/justdo
Hi, as I wrote in the comment above: I was in a hurry when I posted this so didn't notice that the obvious point was missing--that we meet to find solutions and implement them. I've added the edit.
And, yes, the solution is to actually do it--which I realised only because I had an idea for launching a magazine and then actually did it in less than a month. It was the first time I'd ended up acting on an idea so soon after having it, which is what inspired the line of thinking that ultimately led to the idea of the club.
> I feel the underlying reason for this is due to years of the education system drilling into our heads the value of notes and memorisations for the purpose of exam taking.
I was educated in India, so I don't blame the education system (for this particular habit). I'd been the topper in school and was fond of note-taking. I still keep a commonplace book because it's my primary hobby. I love collecting beautiful passages from books and the internet and notes help me simplify concepts for others--I've been tutoring kids for years and I like being able to take information and simplify it for others.
But the habit has gone out of hand when it comes to online note-taking, as I discussed in a different post: it's very-easy to copy-paste stuff, add a million tags, and feel good about it. I've since switched to taking notes by hand ONLY--and because that takes effort, I only take notes on the things I really want to remember. And they're succinct because then I copy just the gist, which is what's truly needed 90% of the time.
> I think once you “do things” though it’s a whole different ball game.
I started doing this sometime near the end of August and I couldn't agree more--a lot of good things have happened since. Oliver Burkeman's writing helped me get there: https://www.oliverburkeman.com/justdo
> My hunch is that this club won’t work because it fundamentally is just another distraction from the goal here: which is to actually do something. Just do it.
I'm not sure you read the whole article, but the author pointed out that the goal of the group would be to serve as a kind of requirements-gathering stage for doing something. The group would meet when a problem was identified, and the meeting agenda would be to iterate over the problem domain and brainstorm solutions.
Does it make sense to jump to the solution space when you barely have an idea of what the problem is?
I'm not sure you read the whole article, but the author pointed out that the goal of the group would be to serve as a kind of requirements-gathering stage for doing something. The group would meet when a problem was identified, and the meeting agenda would be to iterate over the problem domain and brainstorm solutions.
Does it make sense to jump to the solution space when you barely have an idea of what the problem is?
Did you read it? Author laments about not taking action, then as a solution proposes a club to think (or as you said, ”iterate over the problem domain and brainstorm solution"). I mean, how will the same thing they do already help with being more action oriented?
> Does it make sense to jump to the solution space when you barely have an idea of what the problem is?
Yes! Well actually, it depends - but if you see that your answer is "no" too often (as apparently OP does), then change the default answer to "yes". You will be surprised at what can be achieved. Do try to survive though. :)
> Does it make sense to jump to the solution space when you barely have an idea of what the problem is?
Yes! Well actually, it depends - but if you see that your answer is "no" too often (as apparently OP does), then change the default answer to "yes". You will be surprised at what can be achieved. Do try to survive though. :)
> Did you read it? Author laments about not taking action, then as a solution proposes a club to think (or as you said, ”iterate over the problem domain and brainstorm solution"). I mean, how will the same thing they do already help with being more action oriented?
I'm not sure you understand the issue or thought through the problem. Acting without direction or a plan or even a goal is as much of a waste of time as not doing anything.
Is your goal just to pay lip service to a "technically doing something" goal, or actually do something about a problem? Because if your goal is to actually do something about a problem, the very least you need to have in place is a plan.
> Yes! Well actually, it depends (...)
It really does not depend at all. To have a goals the very least you need to have is a basic understanding of the problem you want to tackle. This is not up for discussion.
If you have no idea what the problem actually is, you simply cannot do anything about it.
Unless your goal is to post vacuous content to social media claiming you do stuff in spite of not doing anything or achieving nothing, you need to know what you're doing. It boggles the mind how anyone can even try to argue about the need to know what you're doing.
I'm not sure you understand the issue or thought through the problem. Acting without direction or a plan or even a goal is as much of a waste of time as not doing anything.
Is your goal just to pay lip service to a "technically doing something" goal, or actually do something about a problem? Because if your goal is to actually do something about a problem, the very least you need to have in place is a plan.
> Yes! Well actually, it depends (...)
It really does not depend at all. To have a goals the very least you need to have is a basic understanding of the problem you want to tackle. This is not up for discussion.
If you have no idea what the problem actually is, you simply cannot do anything about it.
Unless your goal is to post vacuous content to social media claiming you do stuff in spite of not doing anything or achieving nothing, you need to know what you're doing. It boggles the mind how anyone can even try to argue about the need to know what you're doing.
What do you want to see or to exist?
I journal every day and I try build experimental software projects what I think is valuable or interesting. Person's idea of what is valuable or interesting or observations or conclusions is different.
I recognise that it takes a lot of work to create something. You can't just know 1 thing or be good at 10 tasks to produce something to high quality, you have to do 1000 tasks you've never done before.
For example, I love goodness, positivity, light and think on these things and reject what is not these things.
So I try do things that are valuable to me and share them with others.
Note: I want a zero effort platform similar to Repl.it that lets me be webscale with minimal devops. I am interested in ScrapScript and Val Town.
I journal every day and I try build experimental software projects what I think is valuable or interesting. Person's idea of what is valuable or interesting or observations or conclusions is different.
I recognise that it takes a lot of work to create something. You can't just know 1 thing or be good at 10 tasks to produce something to high quality, you have to do 1000 tasks you've never done before.
For example, I love goodness, positivity, light and think on these things and reject what is not these things.
So I try do things that are valuable to me and share them with others.
Note: I want a zero effort platform similar to Repl.it that lets me be webscale with minimal devops. I am interested in ScrapScript and Val Town.
> I journal every day and I try build experimental software projects what I think is valuable or interesting.
> For example, I love goodness, positivity, light and think on these things and reject what is not these things.
> So I try do things that are valuable to me and share them with others.
I really like your perspective! We're very similar in that regard.
> I recognise that it takes a lot of work to create something. You can't just know 1 thing or be good at 10 tasks to produce something to high quality, you have to do 1000 tasks you've never done before.
I recently discovered the idea of a minimum viable product and the whole "fail fast, fail better concept." It was a comment on HN that gave me the idea for The Metronome and I ended up launching the magazine in less than a month. I've never done something like it, but I wanted this thing to really exist, so I did what I new and put it out--and the response to it has been overwhelmingly positive. The second issue will go out tomorrow; I learned from my difficulties while making the first one and ended up needing less time to create the second one.
Perfectionism is a terrible problem, so doing things and getting better as you go is better than trying to be better before you actually do the thing, I believe.
> For example, I love goodness, positivity, light and think on these things and reject what is not these things.
> So I try do things that are valuable to me and share them with others.
I really like your perspective! We're very similar in that regard.
> I recognise that it takes a lot of work to create something. You can't just know 1 thing or be good at 10 tasks to produce something to high quality, you have to do 1000 tasks you've never done before.
I recently discovered the idea of a minimum viable product and the whole "fail fast, fail better concept." It was a comment on HN that gave me the idea for The Metronome and I ended up launching the magazine in less than a month. I've never done something like it, but I wanted this thing to really exist, so I did what I new and put it out--and the response to it has been overwhelmingly positive. The second issue will go out tomorrow; I learned from my difficulties while making the first one and ended up needing less time to create the second one.
Perfectionism is a terrible problem, so doing things and getting better as you go is better than trying to be better before you actually do the thing, I believe.
I’m working on GridWhale, which is basically like Replit, but has a single, integrated language that handles everything (UI, storage, etc.)
Still in development, but feel free to try it out: https://Gridwhale.com
Still in development, but feel free to try it out: https://Gridwhale.com
> I journal every day and I try build experimental software projects what I think is valuable or interesting.
I have 4 or so abandoned habit-tracker projects, and 7 "follow book" (essentially "following" a book series or author for release announcements/notifications) projects, all in different early states before I lost interest. I wish I could follow through with projects I’m not getting paid for ;)
I have 4 or so abandoned habit-tracker projects, and 7 "follow book" (essentially "following" a book series or author for release announcements/notifications) projects, all in different early states before I lost interest. I wish I could follow through with projects I’m not getting paid for ;)
Highly recommend checking out BJ Fogg’s Tiny Habits regime. Utterly transformed my life.
Also had multiple failed journaling, reading, meditation, flossing, and exercising attempts, all of which have been fluctuating within acceptable bounds (e.g. some days I can only meditate 3 deep breaths) for the last 4 years or so.
Also had multiple failed journaling, reading, meditation, flossing, and exercising attempts, all of which have been fluctuating within acceptable bounds (e.g. some days I can only meditate 3 deep breaths) for the last 4 years or so.
> I wish I could follow through with projects I’m not getting paid for ;)
This was a problem for me as well, but this post by Oliver Burkeman helped me take action and launch The Metronome : https://www.oliverburkeman.com/justdo
We can't act on every single idea we have, but it's better to bring at least one into the world than have several world-changing ones gather dust in a notebook.
This was a problem for me as well, but this post by Oliver Burkeman helped me take action and launch The Metronome : https://www.oliverburkeman.com/justdo
We can't act on every single idea we have, but it's better to bring at least one into the world than have several world-changing ones gather dust in a notebook.
The premise of the article really resonated with me because I've noticed myself doing the same. My shelves are full of books on various programming languages that I read enthusiastically. But how many have I actually built anything nontrivial with? Very few. I find my motivation ebbing away when it comes to sitting down and writing code. I think the hardest part is just getting started, so I'm scheduling time each day to write something. It doesn't have to be fantastic, just something to get me moving forward.
It is quite simple. Do you want to build something? Then go build it.
You notice you lack information while building? Go read it.
Not the other way around.
Unless you want to read for the sake of reading/learning, which is also fine. It improves your general knowledge. But if you want to get something done, then of course, there is no other way except doing it.
But of course, if it is something bigger, than thinking before doing it make sense. Take a pen and paper and make sketches and todo lists - and then implement them.
You notice you lack information while building? Go read it.
Not the other way around.
Unless you want to read for the sake of reading/learning, which is also fine. It improves your general knowledge. But if you want to get something done, then of course, there is no other way except doing it.
But of course, if it is something bigger, than thinking before doing it make sense. Take a pen and paper and make sketches and todo lists - and then implement them.
>It is quite simple. Do you want to build something? Then go build it.
>You notice you lack information while building? Go read it.
>Not the other way around.
>Unless you want to read for the sake of reading/learning, which is also fine. It improves your general knowledge. But if you want to get something done, then of course, there is no other way except doing it.
I have nothing to add except that this is a beautiful comment that sums up my post way better than I could have myself. :)
>You notice you lack information while building? Go read it.
>Not the other way around.
>Unless you want to read for the sake of reading/learning, which is also fine. It improves your general knowledge. But if you want to get something done, then of course, there is no other way except doing it.
I have nothing to add except that this is a beautiful comment that sums up my post way better than I could have myself. :)
> I think the hardest part is just getting started, so I'm scheduling time each day to write something. It doesn't have to be fantastic, just something to get me moving forward.
You'll like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIDAWrUyjM4
You'll like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIDAWrUyjM4
> I’m tired of this. I think we overvalue thinking and undervalue taking action on that thinking. It’s easy to discuss ideas, which is one reason I think I’ve done so much of it and used to find it appealing.
> Lately, though, simply reading or thinking about ideas feels inadequate, even a waste of time. It feels wrong to me, because it goes against some of the things I value deep down–things which don’t have a specific word for them (that I’m aware of, with my non-native knowledge of English).
> It’s the value that seeks to do things, see the results of doing those things. Ideas made tangible.
This resonated with me a lot.
I've written before about how I ditched over-the-top all-in-one bookmarking, highlighting, annotating and read-it-later platforms for a single fuzzily-searchable database of highlights I take from anywhere (comments, articles, books, blogs etc.) and how much this has improved my life flow in general.
I don't think it's a coincidence that since that mindset shift, I've gone on to create a modest-but-profitable SaaS, a category-defining piece of open source software with a vibrant and active community, and that after a lifetime of watching from the sidelines, I have finally learned to dance to the level that I'm regularly referred to as a "good dancer" (still working on being able to accept this compliment, though)
> Lately, though, simply reading or thinking about ideas feels inadequate, even a waste of time. It feels wrong to me, because it goes against some of the things I value deep down–things which don’t have a specific word for them (that I’m aware of, with my non-native knowledge of English).
> It’s the value that seeks to do things, see the results of doing those things. Ideas made tangible.
This resonated with me a lot.
I've written before about how I ditched over-the-top all-in-one bookmarking, highlighting, annotating and read-it-later platforms for a single fuzzily-searchable database of highlights I take from anywhere (comments, articles, books, blogs etc.) and how much this has improved my life flow in general.
I don't think it's a coincidence that since that mindset shift, I've gone on to create a modest-but-profitable SaaS, a category-defining piece of open source software with a vibrant and active community, and that after a lifetime of watching from the sidelines, I have finally learned to dance to the level that I'm regularly referred to as a "good dancer" (still working on being able to accept this compliment, though)
This! I used to spend ages on organising notes and documents because I believed that would help me work better. I recently gave that up and now focus only on taking action, and I've gotten a lot more work done as a result.
Connecting meticulous organisation and having a "second brain" to productivity, I realised not long ago, has made us all focus on the wrong things. I understand that for some people, having things organized actually helps them function better but I wasn't one of them. I only thought I needed to be super-organized but I'm a perfectionist--what I needed was to just do things.
Connecting meticulous organisation and having a "second brain" to productivity, I realised not long ago, has made us all focus on the wrong things. I understand that for some people, having things organized actually helps them function better but I wasn't one of them. I only thought I needed to be super-organized but I'm a perfectionist--what I needed was to just do things.
> I've written before about how I...
Got a link for that? I'm trying to do something similar and I'm still doing far too much "bookmarking, highlighting, annotating and read-it-later"-ing
Got a link for that? I'm trying to do something similar and I'm still doing far too much "bookmarking, highlighting, annotating and read-it-later"-ing
Sounds like http://Readwise.io
I won't be at a computer for a while to dig up all the links; but check out both my comment and post history on HN; the short version is that I ditched Readwise, Instapaper, Pinboard & co, and my entire histories there, and wrote something from scratch tailored to my own needs which is now also publicly available at https://notado.app
I generally encourage people to write software that is tailored to their own needs in this area rather than trying to contort themselves to fit into the bookmarking model, which I personally consider to be broken for highlights (I've shared a blog on this topic on HN too).
If anyone were to ask me for advice after describing the sort of fatigue that you have described with the popular systems and services in this product area, I'd encourage them to ditch the "read it later" mentality and try adopting a "read it now or read it never" (RINORIN) approach, and to stop annotating their highlights (because these fall out of sync with our thinking incredibly quickly).
I generally encourage people to write software that is tailored to their own needs in this area rather than trying to contort themselves to fit into the bookmarking model, which I personally consider to be broken for highlights (I've shared a blog on this topic on HN too).
If anyone were to ask me for advice after describing the sort of fatigue that you have described with the popular systems and services in this product area, I'd encourage them to ditch the "read it later" mentality and try adopting a "read it now or read it never" (RINORIN) approach, and to stop annotating their highlights (because these fall out of sync with our thinking incredibly quickly).
I think that what really makes us not take action after we read something is this notion of "I will get back to it later" that we get after highlighting or writing notes about it.
You have to be deliberate. If you think something is worth exploring and applying, put it in you calendar or todo list to dive deeper into it in day you have time.
Only write notes for things that a nice to have, for the crucial ones take action and write about your experience with it.
Here is how I go about it: I have a file named on-my-mind.md where I write a short sentence over something I was thinking or thought was interesting. I keep it short. I also have a current.md with something I'm focusing on now — I it read everyday.
If I'm reading a book, I make sure to do the exercises before marking as complete and re-read each chapter after before going to the next. If what I'm learning can improve my work or life, I put it on-my-mind.md.
I consult on-my-mind.md a lot during the day, it's like a state machine for me.
If I thought something was interesting, but don't have the time budget to commit, I will put it on calendar for some day in the future so I can dive deep then. I basically send letters to my future self, and I have this contract of always acting on what I put on the calendar and/or todo list, so it has to be important before it goes there.
You have to be deliberate. If you think something is worth exploring and applying, put it in you calendar or todo list to dive deeper into it in day you have time.
Only write notes for things that a nice to have, for the crucial ones take action and write about your experience with it.
Here is how I go about it: I have a file named on-my-mind.md where I write a short sentence over something I was thinking or thought was interesting. I keep it short. I also have a current.md with something I'm focusing on now — I it read everyday.
If I'm reading a book, I make sure to do the exercises before marking as complete and re-read each chapter after before going to the next. If what I'm learning can improve my work or life, I put it on-my-mind.md.
I consult on-my-mind.md a lot during the day, it's like a state machine for me.
If I thought something was interesting, but don't have the time budget to commit, I will put it on calendar for some day in the future so I can dive deep then. I basically send letters to my future self, and I have this contract of always acting on what I put on the calendar and/or todo list, so it has to be important before it goes there.
I used to collect ideas to act on later too. I still have several documents full of them, not to mention notebooks. Recently, I'm trying to stop looking for more and do something about an idea instead of thinking, "not now."
I'm using the rule of "do it now or delete it." It's quite a harsh rule, but life is short and I can't do everything, so I'm focusing on the things that will bring me the most joy and satisfaction of having done something good for others.
I'm using the rule of "do it now or delete it." It's quite a harsh rule, but life is short and I can't do everything, so I'm focusing on the things that will bring me the most joy and satisfaction of having done something good for others.
A fence appeared which blocked my path to the grocery store. So I started taking my screwdriver to the grocery store so I could dismantle the fence enough to slip though.
Six months later, there was a gate there. I only had to dismantle it maybe four or five times.
Direct action works.
Six months later, there was a gate there. I only had to dismantle it maybe four or five times.
Direct action works.
G.K. Chesterton smiles
I find I learn best, by doing.
I also like to always be working on stuff that ships.
That said, my expertise misses some of the stuff that can only be discovered in a purely academic workflow, and not all “do somethings” are good[0].
[0] https://littlegreenviper.com/miscellany/problems-and-solutio...
I also like to always be working on stuff that ships.
That said, my expertise misses some of the stuff that can only be discovered in a purely academic workflow, and not all “do somethings” are good[0].
[0] https://littlegreenviper.com/miscellany/problems-and-solutio...
"I don’t want the mere discussion of ideas to give me satisfaction".
I'm struggling to find a reference, but I very much subscribe to the concept I read somewhere that discussing an idea releases a similar dopamine hit to actual execution.
There's room for validation of an idea etc., but (over)imagining what completion looks / feels like prior to execution can rob that drive to execute.
I'm struggling to find a reference, but I very much subscribe to the concept I read somewhere that discussing an idea releases a similar dopamine hit to actual execution.
There's room for validation of an idea etc., but (over)imagining what completion looks / feels like prior to execution can rob that drive to execute.
Similarly can’t find it, but it’s something with when you set a goal if you tell people you have that goal you are less likely to achieve it, rather than if you didn’t tell others about it.
I've tried both telling and not telling, and it hasn't made a difference. I've told people and not achieved the goal, told and achieved it, didn't tell and achieved it, and didn't tell and didn't achieve.
I saw this written and told by various people but never saw it confirmed in real life.
Maybe you're both thinking of this TED talk by Derek Sivers?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHopJHSlVo4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHopJHSlVo4
> There's room for validation of an idea etc., but (over)imagining what completion looks / feels like prior to execution can rob that drive to execute.
I think pairing sharing an idea with an action can help because you've already gotten the ball rolling. It's what I did with my magazine: wrote on my blog and also sent emails to the experts I wanted to interview.
I think pairing sharing an idea with an action can help because you've already gotten the ball rolling. It's what I did with my magazine: wrote on my blog and also sent emails to the experts I wanted to interview.
Lovely article pointing out the waste generated from reading too much but doing little with it
Maybe corollary to this is that if you can’t do any immediate action with it, skip the read.
The issue to solve is to know when not to read everything for entertainment, which your brain can consider it “useful”.
The issue to solve is to know when not to read everything for entertainment, which your brain can consider it “useful”.
> Maybe corollary to this is that if you can’t do any immediate action with it, skip the read.
This is what I do. I've been curating my internet diet a lot over the last four years or so. I guess it's a downside of the curation that what does land in my inbox is stuff that I can do something about.
This is what I do. I've been curating my internet diet a lot over the last four years or so. I guess it's a downside of the curation that what does land in my inbox is stuff that I can do something about.
Grass is greener. I don’t read very much because I prefer learning through trial and error when doing because I’m certain most ideas on the internet are wrong anyway (especially regarding programming). This is a limitation, and a middle ground approach is probably actually optimal. Which maybe I do because I still read extremely highly recommended things referred by people I know
Ironically, there's also the danger of getting a mental reward for describing something you'll going to do. I.e. the mind crosses off the actual doing part as "solved", as it's only the "mundane part of execution" that is left to do. Might as well leave that as an exercise for the hearer/reader...
I fell in this trap often, so to avoid it when I decided to launch a magazine, I also took an action at the same time, one that would make it difficult to back out: I sent emails to experts asking for an interview, telling them it was for a magazine I was launching. It worked for me, but not every project might have such an action to go with it.
The author has a good point here. But how actionable is most information out there?
It probably also varies on what information individuals are able to (and want to) take action.
I feel like some social media thing should probably already exist, where people find each other to take action together.
Anyone knows of such a forum, group, subreddit, channel, mastodon instance, or whatever?
It probably also varies on what information individuals are able to (and want to) take action.
I feel like some social media thing should probably already exist, where people find each other to take action together.
Anyone knows of such a forum, group, subreddit, channel, mastodon instance, or whatever?
> But how actionable is most information out there?
I think it depends on our individual information diets. I've gradually curated my internet diet to avoid receiving and reading stuff I can't do anything about, so the stuff that does land in my inbox is often actionable. Might not be true for everyone.
> feel like some social media thing should probably already exist, where people find each other to take action together.
What I'm noticing is that the people who do take action are all connected locally and/or offline so I'm trying to focus my energy there. Meet people, take action outside the screen, offline.
I think it depends on our individual information diets. I've gradually curated my internet diet to avoid receiving and reading stuff I can't do anything about, so the stuff that does land in my inbox is often actionable. Might not be true for everyone.
> feel like some social media thing should probably already exist, where people find each other to take action together.
What I'm noticing is that the people who do take action are all connected locally and/or offline so I'm trying to focus my energy there. Meet people, take action outside the screen, offline.
I can't quite tell if you're being sarcastic but that's exactly what hackernews is to me!
It doesn’t need to be a club. You can do something about it as an individual, including recruiting others when needed.
Definitely.
The thing is, I'm already doing things whenever possible as an individual, but I've spent so long alone that I'm really craving the company that a community provides. I want to start and be part of offline spaces, hence the club.
The thing is, I'm already doing things whenever possible as an individual, but I've spent so long alone that I'm really craving the company that a community provides. I want to start and be part of offline spaces, hence the club.
Interesting article about something they might do, or we might do, or maybe would improve our lives.
Zero chance of me joining the club. Too lazy, too content, too old. I wonder if the author is doing more than writing about it. Or is that 'doing something'? I suppose so.
Zero chance of me joining the club. Too lazy, too content, too old. I wonder if the author is doing more than writing about it. Or is that 'doing something'? I suppose so.
> I wonder if the author is doing more than writing about it.
I was frustrated with how little, proper and useful information there is out there about studying psychology and making a career in the field that goes beyond "study this, then this, then do this internship or that course, and get that credential" etc. So I started interviewing psychological professionals and launched a magazine. The second issue goes out tomorrow. It's the first time I've had an idea and acted on it so fast, which is what inspired the idea for the club--I was riding the high of actually having done something that other people found useful.
I was frustrated with how little, proper and useful information there is out there about studying psychology and making a career in the field that goes beyond "study this, then this, then do this internship or that course, and get that credential" etc. So I started interviewing psychological professionals and launched a magazine. The second issue goes out tomorrow. It's the first time I've had an idea and acted on it so fast, which is what inspired the idea for the club--I was riding the high of actually having done something that other people found useful.
Excellent! I will try to emulate your good example.
Consider
An esoteric subject. Hard experiments.
Lots written though.
So you get a group of "enthusiasts" who like to read. Write about what they read. And argue over the meaning of the cryptic writings. But never actually examine the subject matter firsthand.
And then, through a combination of literary cherrypicking, convoluted logic, and debate, they come to the conclusion that real experimentation is impossible. And anybody who says otherwise is either lying or a fool.
You see it a lot in religious groups. An airtight circle of scripture consumption, excretion and reconsumption.
An esoteric subject. Hard experiments.
Lots written though.
So you get a group of "enthusiasts" who like to read. Write about what they read. And argue over the meaning of the cryptic writings. But never actually examine the subject matter firsthand.
And then, through a combination of literary cherrypicking, convoluted logic, and debate, they come to the conclusion that real experimentation is impossible. And anybody who says otherwise is either lying or a fool.
You see it a lot in religious groups. An airtight circle of scripture consumption, excretion and reconsumption.
It's also very common among secularists and their "consensus facts" (derived from a presumptive ideological framework), a form of scripture itself.
A big problem with humans is that they find it very easy to see faults in the members of their outgroups but not in the members of their ingroups, and teaching about this phenomenon seems to have little effect.
A big problem with humans is that they find it very easy to see faults in the members of their outgroups but not in the members of their ingroups, and teaching about this phenomenon seems to have little effect.
I know, the secularists do it too. It's a human thing. But I never met anybody who said you can't do your own chemistry experiments at home.
I suppose the point is moot though, if you have the opportunity to see for yourself, but don't.
And as for what's actually going on there. I think there's a human inclination to live inside a bubble of dreams. Dreams supplied by solid authority/consensus/tradition but dreams all the same. And challenging the skin of that bubble is something that most of us are allergic to. And seeing for yourself, and challenging the skin of the bubble, is something that only special people are allowed to do. And special basically means not you or me.
I suppose the point is moot though, if you have the opportunity to see for yourself, but don't.
And as for what's actually going on there. I think there's a human inclination to live inside a bubble of dreams. Dreams supplied by solid authority/consensus/tradition but dreams all the same. And challenging the skin of that bubble is something that most of us are allergic to. And seeing for yourself, and challenging the skin of the bubble, is something that only special people are allowed to do. And special basically means not you or me.
I’d start a discord or something, is t that better
I considered that too, but I'd like the group to exist offline as much as possible; talking about ideas isn't the same as acting on them.
I really didn't think very deeply about the whole thing before writing it; I was trying not to break my blogging streak. After looking at the comments though, I have a clearer idea. Might write about it today :)
I really didn't think very deeply about the whole thing before writing it; I was trying not to break my blogging streak. After looking at the comments though, I have a clearer idea. Might write about it today :)
1) there is no value in putting energy into that which you have no control, and MOST things you can read about on the Internet fall into this category
2) almost all good or beautiful things are either personal and happen either in their natural course (relationship, family, the sunset) or they require a lifetime of distillation or creation of that _something_ that is missing from the world.
For me personally I've chosen to focus on my family and job, and spend the rest of my time in pursuit of a large life-long goal (civboot.org). It's gone quite well so far, but I'm only 3 years in