French police arrest reporter over leaked secrets(bbc.com)
bbc.com
French police arrest reporter over leaked secrets
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66870060
32 comments
Nigerien women have, currently 6 children, on average. This means that the population doubles roughly every 20 years. You have to rebuild 100% of the country's infrastructure every 20 years, just to break even. This is the problem. France (nor european countries) are responsible for Africa's fertilty rates. France and french soldiers have been fighting to protect those countries against Jihadism.
France doesn't depend on Niger for Uranium, and the royalties are low because it's very hard to extract Uranium in a landlocked semi-desertic country with no road nor proper power grid.
Overall, I agree that France should leave this unprofitable mining operation - I'm sure that the Chinese or the Russians will propose much better deals!
France doesn't depend on Niger for Uranium, and the royalties are low because it's very hard to extract Uranium in a landlocked semi-desertic country with no road nor proper power grid.
Overall, I agree that France should leave this unprofitable mining operation - I'm sure that the Chinese or the Russians will propose much better deals!
What a take. France is literally still forcing multiple African countries to use CFA.
There are FOIA reports that the nato strikes on Libya were because the French president of the time wanted to have a better “standing” at home. Same bombing that led to the failed state that has now caused tens of thousands of people to die from a flooding.
France, and Europe have a ton of responsibility in what’s happening.
There are FOIA reports that the nato strikes on Libya were because the French president of the time wanted to have a better “standing” at home. Same bombing that led to the failed state that has now caused tens of thousands of people to die from a flooding.
France, and Europe have a ton of responsibility in what’s happening.
How is France forcing those countries to use the CFA? Some are leaving, I didn't see any friction: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/africa/west-african-countries-to-st...
In general, the CFA caused lower interest rates to the countries using it, which is good for developed economies. The people complaining about the lost interest (I haven't seen a real proof about this btw) never speak about the massive french subsidies to the western african states (>$2bn), that dwarfs any retained income from the CFA treasury.
Ho, wait they are also complaining about this! https://www.jeuneafrique.com/1195128/economie-entreprises/la...
So yes, let's close the southern border, push back the boats and never set foot nor send money there. I'm all for this.
In general, the CFA caused lower interest rates to the countries using it, which is good for developed economies. The people complaining about the lost interest (I haven't seen a real proof about this btw) never speak about the massive french subsidies to the western african states (>$2bn), that dwarfs any retained income from the CFA treasury.
Ho, wait they are also complaining about this! https://www.jeuneafrique.com/1195128/economie-entreprises/la...
So yes, let's close the southern border, push back the boats and never set foot nor send money there. I'm all for this.
Please don't start spreading misinformation.
Waging wars has nothing to do with fertility rates. A bit strange that they tend to do that at times, and at others when it's favorable to them, all of a sudden a coup is not a coup.
And France does depend on Niger for its uranium, check your facts, Niger is in 3rd position.
It's also well known that Areva hasn't been up to notch with environmental safety wrt its extraction and handling of radioactive garbage process. Locals are suffering.
It has nothing to do with how hard it alledgedly is to extract uranium. They wouldn't do that in Europe. Period.
How is there no infrastructure and the country has such natural resources being exported is a better question. The exchange is obviously unfair.
The country is free to do business with whoever they'd like. Not wanting to do business with the French government et.al. has nothing to do with the Chinese or Russians. They are not obligated.
It's a free market, not slavery.
And the so-called jihadism excuse, why is there no jihadism in the UAE, it's not jihadism, it's coopted poverty.
Waging wars has nothing to do with fertility rates. A bit strange that they tend to do that at times, and at others when it's favorable to them, all of a sudden a coup is not a coup.
And France does depend on Niger for its uranium, check your facts, Niger is in 3rd position.
It's also well known that Areva hasn't been up to notch with environmental safety wrt its extraction and handling of radioactive garbage process. Locals are suffering.
It has nothing to do with how hard it alledgedly is to extract uranium. They wouldn't do that in Europe. Period.
How is there no infrastructure and the country has such natural resources being exported is a better question. The exchange is obviously unfair.
The country is free to do business with whoever they'd like. Not wanting to do business with the French government et.al. has nothing to do with the Chinese or Russians. They are not obligated.
It's a free market, not slavery.
And the so-called jihadism excuse, why is there no jihadism in the UAE, it's not jihadism, it's coopted poverty.
Niger represented on average 17.9% of the french Uranium ore imports, between 2005 and 2020.
Hardly a strategic supplier - Niger could actually be replaced overnight, we're talking about <1bn$ amounts here. Uranium ore is easy to find, refining it is where the value is.
Also, you can't complain about poverty while refusing to see that fertility rates are a problem. Same with wars, many, many wars are due to population surplus and poverty. Add ethnic competition to the mix, which is typical in Africa, and you'll get the perfect recipe for war.
Hardly a strategic supplier - Niger could actually be replaced overnight, we're talking about <1bn$ amounts here. Uranium ore is easy to find, refining it is where the value is.
Also, you can't complain about poverty while refusing to see that fertility rates are a problem. Same with wars, many, many wars are due to population surplus and poverty. Add ethnic competition to the mix, which is typical in Africa, and you'll get the perfect recipe for war.
Nigeria seems to do better in spite of those fertility rates you speak of.
And yeah, how being the second or third exporter is not being a strategic supplier when the rest of the exports basically depend on Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan?
If you have to switch up your whole supply-chain, don't you think that the price will be steep?
As I've said, Niger still has less than half the population of France on twice the territory. They should have been out-of-poverty a long time ago if the fertility rates were that high.
And the fact that wars are due to multi ethnicity is a masquerade. African empires of yesteryear have always been multi-ethnic. They were stable until colonization (Middle-East incursions which brought slavery and then Europeans who partaked in and expanded) So no, I don't believe that in countries where there are so many inter-ethnic marriages, multiplicity of ethnicities are a valid reason to scaremonger people with the possibility of wars.
And yeah, how being the second or third exporter is not being a strategic supplier when the rest of the exports basically depend on Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan?
If you have to switch up your whole supply-chain, don't you think that the price will be steep?
As I've said, Niger still has less than half the population of France on twice the territory. They should have been out-of-poverty a long time ago if the fertility rates were that high.
And the fact that wars are due to multi ethnicity is a masquerade. African empires of yesteryear have always been multi-ethnic. They were stable until colonization (Middle-East incursions which brought slavery and then Europeans who partaked in and expanded) So no, I don't believe that in countries where there are so many inter-ethnic marriages, multiplicity of ethnicities are a valid reason to scaremonger people with the possibility of wars.
It's not the rank that counts, but the overall share. Niger's uranium ore can easily be replaced with Australian or Canadian ore in the next years. The price of ore in the final electricity cost is meaningless.
Niger is the top recipient of international aid in the region, worth 1.8bn$ last year. French taxpayers contributed 131M$. Most of the population still live under the poverty line (2.15$ a day).
Where will Niger get the capital to double its power grid in the next 20 years? Territory size is meaningless, by your standard Hong Kong should be poorer than Russia given the extreme density differences. Most of Niger land is aride and can't be cultivated anyway, so food needs to be imported. Parabolic population growth will only make things worse.
Regarding multi-ethnic empires, can you give me a source? I believe that it's mainly tribal oppression against enslaved dominated ethnicities. Similar to Pygmee slaves still owned by Bantu people.
Improving the region would mean understanding what's wrong instead of blaming the white men for all of the trouble. Not sure we're on the good path.
Niger is the top recipient of international aid in the region, worth 1.8bn$ last year. French taxpayers contributed 131M$. Most of the population still live under the poverty line (2.15$ a day).
Where will Niger get the capital to double its power grid in the next 20 years? Territory size is meaningless, by your standard Hong Kong should be poorer than Russia given the extreme density differences. Most of Niger land is aride and can't be cultivated anyway, so food needs to be imported. Parabolic population growth will only make things worse.
Regarding multi-ethnic empires, can you give me a source? I believe that it's mainly tribal oppression against enslaved dominated ethnicities. Similar to Pygmee slaves still owned by Bantu people.
Improving the region would mean understanding what's wrong instead of blaming the white men for all of the trouble. Not sure we're on the good path.
And Niger GDP is in the 20B.
I wasn't talking about density really but more expounding on the fact that given the rates, the GDP by capita should have been much, much higher back then and even today.
Regarding multi-ethnic history, one can easily find literature on the great African Empires such as Kanem-Bornu, Ouaddaï or Bagirmi for instance.
No one is blaming white men, don't make it about skin color. One can blame foreign governments when they are at fault. People really can't seem to be able to accept the faults of their leadership somehow but they are also the firsts to criticize the migratory politics. At some point, one should accept that things are not well coordinated all over.
Re. Capital to double its power grid, should have invested in infrastructure from the get-go hence the comparison to UAE countries which did the right thing. Dubai was literally the middle of the desert so I don't think that it was/is an impossible feat.
Then again, colonialism has had an impact even after these countries were officially independent, as they didn't have full-control regarding what to do with the oil discovered in the 70s for instance.
I wasn't talking about density really but more expounding on the fact that given the rates, the GDP by capita should have been much, much higher back then and even today.
Regarding multi-ethnic history, one can easily find literature on the great African Empires such as Kanem-Bornu, Ouaddaï or Bagirmi for instance.
No one is blaming white men, don't make it about skin color. One can blame foreign governments when they are at fault. People really can't seem to be able to accept the faults of their leadership somehow but they are also the firsts to criticize the migratory politics. At some point, one should accept that things are not well coordinated all over.
Re. Capital to double its power grid, should have invested in infrastructure from the get-go hence the comparison to UAE countries which did the right thing. Dubai was literally the middle of the desert so I don't think that it was/is an impossible feat.
Then again, colonialism has had an impact even after these countries were officially independent, as they didn't have full-control regarding what to do with the oil discovered in the 70s for instance.
> Nigeria seems to do better in spite of those fertility rates you speak of.
Nigerian here; no we're not. Our economy is dismal and barely growing, yet the population is exploding. Poor (and I mean dirt-poor) people account for the majority of this population explosion, giving birth to offspring that'll face a lifetime of suffering.
I agree with the person you're replying to. African countries cause their own problems because they give birth to more people than their economic growth can cater to.
Here's a dire stat; Nigeria is currently about 224 million, and 63% are classified as "multidimensionally poor" [1]. Yet, we're expected to surpass China in population at year 2,100 [2].
How on earth do we expect those hundreds of millions more people to survive when we can't even take care of the ones we have? Answer is no one has a plan, but poorer people keep giving birth like flies and most of their offspring won't escape poverty. This is what sheer lack of education causes, coupled with excessive corruption that hinders economic growth.
1 - https://nigerianstat.gov.ng/news/78#:~:text=In%20Nigeria%2C%....
2 - https://africa.businessinsider.com/local/markets/nigeria-to-...
Nigerian here; no we're not. Our economy is dismal and barely growing, yet the population is exploding. Poor (and I mean dirt-poor) people account for the majority of this population explosion, giving birth to offspring that'll face a lifetime of suffering.
I agree with the person you're replying to. African countries cause their own problems because they give birth to more people than their economic growth can cater to.
Here's a dire stat; Nigeria is currently about 224 million, and 63% are classified as "multidimensionally poor" [1]. Yet, we're expected to surpass China in population at year 2,100 [2].
How on earth do we expect those hundreds of millions more people to survive when we can't even take care of the ones we have? Answer is no one has a plan, but poorer people keep giving birth like flies and most of their offspring won't escape poverty. This is what sheer lack of education causes, coupled with excessive corruption that hinders economic growth.
1 - https://nigerianstat.gov.ng/news/78#:~:text=In%20Nigeria%2C%....
2 - https://africa.businessinsider.com/local/markets/nigeria-to-...
I'm not saying that it's all rosy but the economy is assuredly better than on the other side of the borders. Just have to look at the number of foreign companies investing, having a presence there.
Incomparable.
allow me to disagree. fertility is related to war. if niger had a stable state, they could implement a fertility control program like a lot of african countries
No, as it stands it is irrelevant. Only the presidency changed but there is no civil war. Let's not start spreading unrelated excuses to justify a military intervention that would do more harm than good.
As it stands, the Nigerien military has also explained that there had been roadblocks in the fight against jihadism because they were not allowed to coordinate with the new governements of Mali and Burkina which have veered against French interests. That was one of the main reasons given for the coup.
It has nothing to do with too many people being born.
Which countries with such policies are you speaking of by the way? (I'm curious, I honestly don't know)
Besides, Nigeriens are currently 25 million which is less than half of the French population in a country that is twice the size.
Poverty didn't start yesterday, nor did the exploitation of natural resources. How is that country so poor and others such as Qatar aren't?
It's impossible not to notice that former French colonies are often poorer than their British, Italian (Libya before the French, once again, pushed for a military intervention and embarked the US in that campaign) or Portuguese counterparts.
The only way fertility is problematic is that the population is young and the infrastructures that should have been built AND maintained... haven't. Along with education and the health sector.
All the more reasons to understand why they can seem to resent the French government (and not France in general as is depicted in some media).
Frankly, if solutions haven't been found after all these years, they simply haven't been sought. Going from first principles, if one wants to solve migrations and whatnot, just let them develop themselves properly.
As it stands, the Nigerien military has also explained that there had been roadblocks in the fight against jihadism because they were not allowed to coordinate with the new governements of Mali and Burkina which have veered against French interests. That was one of the main reasons given for the coup.
It has nothing to do with too many people being born.
Which countries with such policies are you speaking of by the way? (I'm curious, I honestly don't know)
Besides, Nigeriens are currently 25 million which is less than half of the French population in a country that is twice the size.
Poverty didn't start yesterday, nor did the exploitation of natural resources. How is that country so poor and others such as Qatar aren't?
It's impossible not to notice that former French colonies are often poorer than their British, Italian (Libya before the French, once again, pushed for a military intervention and embarked the US in that campaign) or Portuguese counterparts.
The only way fertility is problematic is that the population is young and the infrastructures that should have been built AND maintained... haven't. Along with education and the health sector.
All the more reasons to understand why they can seem to resent the French government (and not France in general as is depicted in some media).
Frankly, if solutions haven't been found after all these years, they simply haven't been sought. Going from first principles, if one wants to solve migrations and whatnot, just let them develop themselves properly.
> Poverty didn't start yesterday, nor did the exploitation of natural resources. How is that country so poor and others such as Qatar aren't?
Well because Uranium just isn't gas or petrol, there's no way around it. There's a very limited amount of buyers and most of the actual value is in the power plant. Nobody ever got rich from a Uranium mine.
What will probably happen is they will sell it cheaper to China instead and get less money.
Well because Uranium just isn't gas or petrol, there's no way around it. There's a very limited amount of buyers and most of the actual value is in the power plant. Nobody ever got rich from a Uranium mine.
What will probably happen is they will sell it cheaper to China instead and get less money.
Well, there are other exports.
There might even be oil. The neighbor Chad has some and isn't any better.
Checked, oil has been discovered in Niger in the 70's...so yeah... And they are still poor?!
And even then, they should have exchanged a package: Exploitation rights against revenue with costs of infra + maintenance deducted.
There needs to be roads or trains assuredly and whatnot for those exports to transit.
Who cares if they get a better bargain from the US, the Chinese or whoever else. That's competition. That's supply and demand. That's how they should get the most of what they have. No need to be so sour about it.
Checked, oil has been discovered in Niger in the 70's...so yeah... And they are still poor?!
And even then, they should have exchanged a package: Exploitation rights against revenue with costs of infra + maintenance deducted.
There needs to be roads or trains assuredly and whatnot for those exports to transit.
Who cares if they get a better bargain from the US, the Chinese or whoever else. That's competition. That's supply and demand. That's how they should get the most of what they have. No need to be so sour about it.
Graft from the elites is the reason, not supposed unequal contracts from western companies.
Also, wealth of nations comes from production, not just mere exploitation of ressources.
Countries like Germany got very rich early by producing valuable things instead of selling their ressources. On the contrary, Portugal had dozens of gold mines, and now it's much poorer than european industrial powerhouses.
Also, wealth of nations comes from production, not just mere exploitation of ressources.
Countries like Germany got very rich early by producing valuable things instead of selling their ressources. On the contrary, Portugal had dozens of gold mines, and now it's much poorer than european industrial powerhouses.
> Checked, oil has been discovered in Niger in the 70's...so yeah... And they are still poor?!
Maybe because Niger produces 20k barels per day and Saudi Arabia 12 millions per day? What are we even comparing here?
With such a low production of petrol (of a similar level as metropolitan France actually) I don't think it's even worth selling it at all, it has more value as a strategic reserve for the military.
> Who cares if they get a better bargain from the US, the Chinese or whoever else. That's competition. That's supply and demand. That's how they should get the most of what they have. No need to be so sour about it.
Yes for sure, that's okay to sell it cheaper with the market rate to China if it's what they really want.
Maybe because Niger produces 20k barels per day and Saudi Arabia 12 millions per day? What are we even comparing here?
With such a low production of petrol (of a similar level as metropolitan France actually) I don't think it's even worth selling it at all, it has more value as a strategic reserve for the military.
> Who cares if they get a better bargain from the US, the Chinese or whoever else. That's competition. That's supply and demand. That's how they should get the most of what they have. No need to be so sour about it.
Yes for sure, that's okay to sell it cheaper with the market rate to China if it's what they really want.
First, production is not equal to reserve.
Second, the national demand is different, notably since there are less people.
I mean, at some point, arguing for arguing should stop. The facts are here. No need for the information to be grossly deformed...
Second, the national demand is different, notably since there are less people.
I mean, at some point, arguing for arguing should stop. The facts are here. No need for the information to be grossly deformed...
Which countries with such policies are you speaking of by the way? (I'm curious, I honestly don't know)
And by the way, I'm not sure what other thing we're disagreeing about, to be clear, I don't think wars in Niger (and all ancient colonies in Africa) are endogenous.
> How is that country so poor and others such as Qatar aren't?
Corruption, corruption, corruption, and incompetence. Qatar doesn't have illiterate and corrupt clowns running the show. Seriously, I'm African, and I don't understand why people find it difficult to say the truth to us.
We are our own problem because we keep giving birth to more people than we can handle and voting in buffoons to run the economy.
Corruption, corruption, corruption, and incompetence. Qatar doesn't have illiterate and corrupt clowns running the show. Seriously, I'm African, and I don't understand why people find it difficult to say the truth to us.
We are our own problem because we keep giving birth to more people than we can handle and voting in buffoons to run the economy.
Can't change the head when they are protected and protect some French interests. Some people definitely find kakistocratic regimes advantageous. How can one do business then?
Some foreign investors even have to leave some countries because it's impossible to do proper business. That's a shame.
I was under the impression that Canada is the second largest producer of Uranium.
Possibly. Orano(ex Areva) operates there as well.
But France depends/ was depending mainly on uranium from Kazakhstan, Niger and Uzbekistan.
But France depends/ was depending mainly on uranium from Kazakhstan, Niger and Uzbekistan.
I have no doubt that those imports will be replaced by one of those other exporters, it's not that hard.
Well the point is that these two other major suppliers are very close geographically to Russia.
So I doubt it will be them. And even then, the price will simply not be the same.
So I doubt it will be them. And even then, the price will simply not be the same.
Price of Uranium is meaningless in nuclear electricity production. Even if there is a shortage, the French can recycle fuel:
https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-c...
It's still very geo-strategic.
People can refuse to sell.
France has historic links with Niger which is the reason Niger is the EU 2nd most important source for that ore.
What does France bring to the table in the EU? Its access to these resources amongst other things.
France has historic links with Niger which is the reason Niger is the EU 2nd most important source for that ore.
What does France bring to the table in the EU? Its access to these resources amongst other things.
>It's still very geo-strategic. People can refuse to sell
France has 2 years of ready to use fuel plus 5 years of fuel to refine meaning they have to get a replacement within the next 7 years or reuse waste or mine locally as a last resort, they'll be fine.
I'm not even sure the new dictator will live that long or change his mind in the meantime anyways.
> What does France bring to the table in the EU? Its access to these resources amongst other things.
Well no, those are a rounding error at best.
France has 2 years of ready to use fuel plus 5 years of fuel to refine meaning they have to get a replacement within the next 7 years or reuse waste or mine locally as a last resort, they'll be fine.
I'm not even sure the new dictator will live that long or change his mind in the meantime anyways.
> What does France bring to the table in the EU? Its access to these resources amongst other things.
Well no, those are a rounding error at best.
Rounding errors? Not too sure given the hikes in energy prices...
Sure, the nuclear plants have been built in France following the petrol crisis of the 70s just for this reason, they fulfill the exact same role today. That's why Italy and Germany were much more affected by the energy crisis.
But the appeal of cheap uranium is too strong apparently when the other suppliers are too close to Russia geographically, I guess.
People should come first. It's very disappointing.