The X220 ThinkPad(bt.ht)
bt.ht
The X220 ThinkPad
https://bt.ht/x220/
139 comments
> Thinkpad X13 Yoga Gen 3
Sadly it has that shitty modern Lenovo keyboard, with Fn in the left part of the keyboard (I'm not talking about Fn/Ctrl placement), Insert on Fn+End combo (Why?! WHY?![0]) and the stupid PrtScr under the right thumb, like you are taking screenshots every minute.
This alone averts me from any ThinkPad past x220 (and even x220 has elephantitis on the Del key..)
[0] and now I'm talking about Fn placement on the left side - even I can't make Fn+End with one hand. Compare it to ASUS TM420 keyboard: https://i0.wp.com/techraman.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/A...
Sadly it has that shitty modern Lenovo keyboard, with Fn in the left part of the keyboard (I'm not talking about Fn/Ctrl placement), Insert on Fn+End combo (Why?! WHY?![0]) and the stupid PrtScr under the right thumb, like you are taking screenshots every minute.
This alone averts me from any ThinkPad past x220 (and even x220 has elephantitis on the Del key..)
[0] and now I'm talking about Fn placement on the left side - even I can't make Fn+End with one hand. Compare it to ASUS TM420 keyboard: https://i0.wp.com/techraman.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/A...
To be honest I've never even noticed those problems. I don't use any of those buttons ever at all, really.
Sometimes it's not even "I use them not", sometimes it's "I need to use them because some program/whatever requires them" so there is no options.
And PrtScr on these keyboards replaces ContextMenu and I'm hardwired for a quarter of century to use it when I'm on the go without a mouse (hey, it's a laptop!). I lost my clipboard contents too many times so I had to figure it out, but it's ridiculous in the first place.
And overall it's like having a dildo in the driver seat of your car - you can choose to use it or not to, but still there should be no such thing in the driver seat of a car at all. /rant
And PrtScr on these keyboards replaces ContextMenu and I'm hardwired for a quarter of century to use it when I'm on the go without a mouse (hey, it's a laptop!). I lost my clipboard contents too many times so I had to figure it out, but it's ridiculous in the first place.
And overall it's like having a dildo in the driver seat of your car - you can choose to use it or not to, but still there should be no such thing in the driver seat of a car at all. /rant
I fully agree about the newer ThinkPad keyboards. I wouldn't call them shitty, but after using the old ones it's such a step back. I use a key remapper to fix this stuff, currently using Xmonad which works very well (e.g., that dumb screenshot key is now the traditional menu key).
The large Del key is great, it makes it easier to hit it blindly while typing.
... I don't remember I ever missed DEL on any laptop keyboard with a separate, two row functional keys block. At least never to bother me enough to remember that. It's in the bottom-left edge, you can't miss it, you have the tactile feel of it.
>any ThinkPad past x220
not even the Thinkpad T25 Anniversary Edition?
not even the Thinkpad T25 Anniversary Edition?
I have both. The compactness of the x220 feels better, but I spent important years on an x61t so ymmv
Me and my partners T420 had their BIOS die simultaneously in 2020, there's definitely something going wrong with these devices.
As counterpoint for the repairability I never liked how hard it is to access the fan assembly on thinkpads. You basically have to fully take the laptop apart to access it. And for the laptops from a decade ago I typically wanted to clean the fan assembly properly every year around springtime.
For example for the X220 the fan assembly is removed after the system board, no way around. Before the system board can be replaced, the following components need to be removed:
T220 is not better in this regard either.
There are other decade old laptops with similar quality service manuals that don't have this issue and the fan assembly can be removed without too much hassle.
For example for the X220 the fan assembly is removed after the system board, no way around. Before the system board can be replaced, the following components need to be removed:
• “1010 Battery pack” on page 63
• “1020 Hard disk drive (HDD) and solid state drive (SSD)” on page 63
• “1030 DIMM” on page 65
• “1040 Keyboard” on page 67
• “1050 Palm rest or palm rest with a fingerprint reader” on page 69
• “1070 Backup battery” on page 73
• “1060 PCI Express Mini Card for wireless LAN/WiMAX” on page 71
• “1080 PCI Express Mini Card for wireless WAN” on page 74
• “1090 Keyboard bezel” on page 76
• “1100 LCD assembly” on page 77
• “1110 Base cover assembly and speaker assembly” on page 80
T220 is not better in this regard either.
There are other decade old laptops with similar quality service manuals that don't have this issue and the fan assembly can be removed without too much hassle.
I actually replaced the fan on mine a few years ago and it's not hard at all. From that list:
* Battery pack is just clipped in the back * Hard disk is removable with an extra maintenance hatch * DIMM can stay where it is * Keybord is fixed with five screws on the back * palm rest is fixed with another three screws, remove it in the same step as the palm rest * backup battery is not applicable for the x220 * pci cards can stay where they are * keyboard bezel clips out * lcd assembly can stay where it is * base cover assembly and speaker assembly can stay where they are
A better manual would be: * remove battery from the back * remove ssd from its slot * unscrew + remove keyboard and palm rest with keyboard bezel (this is pretty much one step trust me) * unplug all five cables * unscrew motherboard * take motherboard (to which the fan is attached) from case and do what you want with it
X220 maintenance is a 10 minute job for disassembly and reassembly combined.
* Battery pack is just clipped in the back * Hard disk is removable with an extra maintenance hatch * DIMM can stay where it is * Keybord is fixed with five screws on the back * palm rest is fixed with another three screws, remove it in the same step as the palm rest * backup battery is not applicable for the x220 * pci cards can stay where they are * keyboard bezel clips out * lcd assembly can stay where it is * base cover assembly and speaker assembly can stay where they are
A better manual would be: * remove battery from the back * remove ssd from its slot * unscrew + remove keyboard and palm rest with keyboard bezel (this is pretty much one step trust me) * unplug all five cables * unscrew motherboard * take motherboard (to which the fan is attached) from case and do what you want with it
X220 maintenance is a 10 minute job for disassembly and reassembly combined.
I 100% agree! I made a post earlier in the thread about this. Cleaning the fans on my T530 was so tough!
You basically have to take apart the entire computer from the keyboard down to the fan. The MBP Unibody 2012, which came out around the time of the T530, is way, way easier to clean the fans of.
You basically have to take apart the entire computer from the keyboard down to the fan. The MBP Unibody 2012, which came out around the time of the T530, is way, way easier to clean the fans of.
I recently had to replace the fan because the motor died, and agree, that's a really big hassle. If you want to unscrew/remove the whole fan from the motherboard, you have to lift off the whole heatsink assembly from the board+cpu, meaning you also have to re-apply thermal paste every time you clean the fan. Far from ideal.
But the most difficult part was finding a screwdriver for the VGA port (it screws into the case).
I believe the way ThinkPad HMMs(Hardware Maintenance Manual - I'm sure it's an intended pun) works is you start from the first page until you hit the problematic part, and it ends with the CPU or "system planar" and all the parts around it. It's a carried over culture from IBM probably.
I've gotten by taking a hose from a vacuum cleaner and partially covering and uncovering the intake and exhaust holes in quick succession. It makes enough turbulence to clear most of the dust and hasn't broken anything yet.
T430 is a piece of cake to replace the fan.
I have a 220, it is a PITA, I have taken it apart to repaste it. And yes, taken it apart. Even the display had to come off. However, I have two others - X1s - and they are a piece of cake. Just remove the bottom panel and the fan is right there.
I don't know, this still looks annoying:
https://thinkpads.com/support/hmm/hmm_pdf/t430_t430i_hmm_en_...
Granted, you don't have to remove the display at least.
https://thinkpads.com/support/hmm/hmm_pdf/t430_t430i_hmm_en_...
Granted, you don't have to remove the display at least.
No idea what that process is - I have a few t430s and have replaced each of their fans at least once. It's just a case of remove the k/b and top bezel, maybe one of the speakers (can't remember, but it's just a single screw anyway) and then the heatsink/fan. No need to remove the screen and all that other stuff in the manual. takes 15 mins max.
but T4xx have always been easier due to form factor
It is a great machine but the screen resolution was already rubbish when the X220 was introduced.
And crucify me if you will but the new ThinkPad keyboard can feel _great_ on the models where it is deep enough (T series mostly). I just miss the 7 rows of the old layout.
And crucify me if you will but the new ThinkPad keyboard can feel _great_ on the models where it is deep enough (T series mostly). I just miss the 7 rows of the old layout.
The screen is garbage and most of the second-hand fleet has the TN screen. The IPS screen was a rare option. The X220 and its immediate predecessors came out during the very embarrassing (for Lenovo) period during which they claimed it was impossible to source IPS displays. A few days after the X220 came out, Apple switched to 100% IPS displays across their product line. This forced Lenovo to change their tune.
IMHO the "good" laptops were from the era when Lenovo was still traveling on IBM's roadmap. The X61 Tablet had a magnificent display. As soon as Lenovo switched to widescreen designs, it was all downhill.
IMHO the "good" laptops were from the era when Lenovo was still traveling on IBM's roadmap. The X61 Tablet had a magnificent display. As soon as Lenovo switched to widescreen designs, it was all downhill.
tablet versions usually came with IPS, I recently bought an x220t because the x220 screen is garbage. a missed a rare opportunity two weeks ago to buy an IPS panel for an x220 for 20€
I agree on the keyboard. I had T470 from my employee and the keyboard felt nicer than every Dell and HP I ever used.
I agree. I stopped buying Apple and switched to Thinkpads. Refurbished. With a decent backup system in place I can replace one on the fly as needed without breaking the bank but more importantly I can repair them. One spill was all it took to destroy my last Mac Pro: the whole machine was useless. I have kids and spills happen. As do drops, tugs, etc. My T450 suffered a spill: nothing. Disassembled, cleaned, back in business. But if it had been toast? Less than $200 to get another refurbished one.
It's a great option if you can stomach Windows or put up with Linux, I agree.
This sounds like an Apple fanboy comment, tbh. Most people are used to windows and if they want an alternative, they'll reach for Linux. MacOS is more of a con rather than a pro since you're effectively locked in with no chance of switching.
This sounds like a comment from someone who thinks of Apple hate as a personality trait.
There's no lock-in in MacOS, which is easily demonstrated on any front you like. Of course, if you actually investigate such claims before making them, it'll put you in the awkward position of having to decide if you'd rather be ignorantly disingenuous our outright dishonest, so it's a tough spot for you.
There's no lock-in in MacOS, which is easily demonstrated on any front you like. Of course, if you actually investigate such claims before making them, it'll put you in the awkward position of having to decide if you'd rather be ignorantly disingenuous our outright dishonest, so it's a tough spot for you.
That sounds more like a lack of perspective. Most people are actually locked in to Windows on non-apple computers due to a lack of knowledge (or motivation to change up their workflow), and even more people are locked in to mobile operating systems for the same reason.
Also, Asahi is a very polished distro with a lot of original work going into it, arguably one of the best Linux experiences around, so I have no idea what you mean by "no chance of switching".
Also, Asahi is a very polished distro with a lot of original work going into it, arguably one of the best Linux experiences around, so I have no idea what you mean by "no chance of switching".
Asahi doesn't even support all the hardware on the few machines it supports. The only people who consider it "polished" are people who don't use Linux.
The hardware bring up they have done is amazing work, but it's a long way from daily driving. It's not the developers' fault apple uses bizarre webcams etc, but "best Linux experience" is not even close.
The hardware bring up they have done is amazing work, but it's a long way from daily driving. It's not the developers' fault apple uses bizarre webcams etc, but "best Linux experience" is not even close.
On mac you are locked in whether you lack knowledge or have it.
This is just not true.
You are no more and no less locked into MacOS than you are under Windows or under Linux.
I'm not sympathetic to them, but there definitely ARE substantive arguments a FOSS devotee could make about MacOS that make sense, or which are at least grounded in fact. This is not one of them.
You are no more and no less locked into MacOS than you are under Windows or under Linux.
I'm not sympathetic to them, but there definitely ARE substantive arguments a FOSS devotee could make about MacOS that make sense, or which are at least grounded in fact. This is not one of them.
Yes, correct. If you can deal with almost any operating system that runs on general purpose hardware, and if you can stomach having the choice of which one to run.
I can only tolerate Linux. The other two are cesspools.
That said, Lenovo and the thinkpad brand are known bad actors. They were busted for phoning home and adding spyware. Not trustworthy.
That said, Lenovo and the thinkpad brand are known bad actors. They were busted for phoning home and adding spyware. Not trustworthy.
> That said, Lenovo and the thinkpad brand are known bad actors. They were busted for phoning home and adding spyware.
I agree about lenovo as a whole, but IIRC that spyware was never on the thinkpad brand, only ideapads and other lower end machines.
I agree about lenovo as a whole, but IIRC that spyware was never on the thinkpad brand, only ideapads and other lower end machines.
Is there anything remaining when you nuke the Windows install to put Linux on them?
MSI and Gigabyte have a rep for firmware that has holes or phones home, but AFAIK Lenovo mobos aren't known for this.
Fresh install of Ubuntu or Fedora that formats the HDD should rid you of anything dubious.
Fresh install of Ubuntu or Fedora that formats the HDD should rid you of anything dubious.
It's called Windows Update Binary Table, and Lenovo did it 10 years ago on one model of their Ideapad (budget, low-end) line. The echo seemed to have hit them hard enough to never attempt it again.
You can patch out WUBT by replacing your bootloader with one that strips them out, though most boards have a toggle in the BIOS by now (my ASUS AM5 board had this anti-feature and the toggle too). Though you probably get more crapware on Windows Update these days.
You can patch out WUBT by replacing your bootloader with one that strips them out, though most boards have a toggle in the BIOS by now (my ASUS AM5 board had this anti-feature and the toggle too). Though you probably get more crapware on Windows Update these days.
Thanks, that's what I thought. Good thing too, have a couple ThinkPads of differing vintages around, both Linux.
I mean, preferences are obviously very personal, but describing MacOS as a "cesspool", or as equivalently "cesspooly" to Windows, is kinda of bizarre.
Strictly in my opinion, the M1 mba is perhaps a tie or even slightly edges out the x2_0 series. Solidly built (would I use it as a melee weapon? no, that's what actual melee weapons -- like model m keyboards -- are for), fast, quiet, great screen, insane battery life, usable unix under the hood. I'll grant that the older IBM keyboards were top notch, but the M1's is good enough and having a modern screen to read code on is worth the trade (at least for me, I spend way more time reading and thinking when writing code than physically banging away on the keyboard). I feel kind of weird gushing about hardware to be honest, but it's just that good a machine and I guess that's in keeping with the author's love of the x220? :)
If I didn't have an m1 air though, an x200-series thinkpad running linux of some form probably would be my go-to! I still eye minifree.org from time to time when the temptation for a dedicated portable linux machine has me in its grip.
If I didn't have an m1 air though, an x200-series thinkpad running linux of some form probably would be my go-to! I still eye minifree.org from time to time when the temptation for a dedicated portable linux machine has me in its grip.
Yeah. I had an X220 (or X220i?) years ago running Debian/WindowMaker until the motherboard died.
I think a "tie" is fair. I'd say the MacBooks last a few years longer, though ThinkPads have more ports. ThinkPads were about as good 10+ years ago as MacBooks are now, so can we just call it a tie? I suppose.
Unfortunately, the keyboards on both have regressed to "fine".
I think a "tie" is fair. I'd say the MacBooks last a few years longer, though ThinkPads have more ports. ThinkPads were about as good 10+ years ago as MacBooks are now, so can we just call it a tie? I suppose.
Unfortunately, the keyboards on both have regressed to "fine".
The M1 is limited to a single os and is not upgradeable though.
Mine dual boots MacOS and NixOS, and has also run Asahi.
But it's full of limitations last I tested.
No webcam, battery drains because power management is poor/non existent, no external displays depending on the connection and good luck with the touchbar, connectivity is limited like no thunderbolt or hdmi support, no sound, no screen brightness control, and I didn't manage to pair any bluetooth devices.
Things will gradually improve hopefully but I don't have time to navigate minefields at the moment. Not to mention if things go south you need another mac, faith and need to wipe all data without chance to recover any of it.
No webcam, battery drains because power management is poor/non existent, no external displays depending on the connection and good luck with the touchbar, connectivity is limited like no thunderbolt or hdmi support, no sound, no screen brightness control, and I didn't manage to pair any bluetooth devices.
Things will gradually improve hopefully but I don't have time to navigate minefields at the moment. Not to mention if things go south you need another mac, faith and need to wipe all data without chance to recover any of it.
The former is not true, and the latter is kinda pointless when you're comparing it to a 10+ year old computer.
Sadly Asahi, whose work is really impressive, is getting a bit stuck. Polishing the last 10% is really hard without cooperation from Apple. It would be awesome to run Linux on a MBA M2 as a first-class citizen, like it used to be possible on MacBook Airs from the early 2010s. Everything just worked.
Besides, AMD CPUs are getting really performant to the point they outclass M2 in some benchmarks. Battery and heat-wise they are still behind, but very reasonable. And they have the advantage of being x86_64, so all software just works. In some ways, a X13 / T13s AMD is the new X220.
Besides, AMD CPUs are getting really performant to the point they outclass M2 in some benchmarks. Battery and heat-wise they are still behind, but very reasonable. And they have the advantage of being x86_64, so all software just works. In some ways, a X13 / T13s AMD is the new X220.
> Battery and heat-wise they are still behind,
That's all that matters at this point, imo. Very few workloads that can be done on a laptop really benefit from an extra 5-10% perf boost. Performance has gotten good enough that it's no longer a differentiating feature
That's all that matters at this point, imo. Very few workloads that can be done on a laptop really benefit from an extra 5-10% perf boost. Performance has gotten good enough that it's no longer a differentiating feature
Sure, my point was that heat and battery are really good in AMD ThinkPads too.
Not as good as in ARM Macs, but sufficiently good to be a compelling alternative.
I have test-driven one and I could get ~10 hours of use plus it was warm and silent.
Macs get a lot more, but some packages are a bit problematic to run on non-x86 architectures.
Not as good as in ARM Macs, but sufficiently good to be a compelling alternative.
I have test-driven one and I could get ~10 hours of use plus it was warm and silent.
Macs get a lot more, but some packages are a bit problematic to run on non-x86 architectures.
> It would be awesome to run Linux on a MBA M2 as a first-class citizen, like it used to be possible on MacBook Airs from the early 2010s. Everything just worked.
My current personal laptop is a ~2010 i7 11" MBA running Ubuntu. Had to dump OSX a few years ago as updates eventually murdered performance on it (Tried clean install, still completely unusable after I made the mistake of letting OSX upgrade).
Battery is kind of crap now, but still gets ~hour. Enough for it to sit plugged in next to the couch for a quick dig into something, I'll plug in if I need more. I am tempted to upgrade, maybe a Framework? but.. Why? I love the size, and it's still plenty fast enough.
My current personal laptop is a ~2010 i7 11" MBA running Ubuntu. Had to dump OSX a few years ago as updates eventually murdered performance on it (Tried clean install, still completely unusable after I made the mistake of letting OSX upgrade).
Battery is kind of crap now, but still gets ~hour. Enough for it to sit plugged in next to the couch for a quick dig into something, I'll plug in if I need more. I am tempted to upgrade, maybe a Framework? but.. Why? I love the size, and it's still plenty fast enough.
Dell XPS 13 is actually smaller on every axis from the 2010 Macbook Air, and a nicer and more Linux-capable laptop to boot. I'm typing on one now and I easily get 5+ hours in Kubuntu, even with significant screen brightness. (the screen is amazing)
The problem is that Apple really has set a new benchmark: 18 hours. It's insane getting on a 6 hour flight with 50% battery and not being worried at all.
Bigger than the 11" MBA though.
I'll definitely look at the XPS whenever I feel the need to upgrade.
I'll definitely look at the XPS whenever I feel the need to upgrade.
I don't think it's a coincidence that author has picked a laptop whose processor came out in 2011. Intel has basically had a lost decade in terms of performance. I remember going from my 2012 Macbook Air (i7) to a 2015 Macbook Pro (13inch) to the 2014 Macbook Pro (15inch) to finally getting a Thinkpad X1 and I never felt like the 2012 Macbook Air was struggling in the way that the subsequent laptops struggled.
Now my X1 doesn't have the build quality of the X220 - but it's still very good and I finally bit the bullet and did what someone well paid who relies on a tool for work should do. I bought the full 5 years support package for my X1. Any hardware issues? Send it in they'll fix it no questions asked. I need the laptop for work, I get paid good money, it's a good investment to have that business level support.
The only area where the X220 is really showing it's age today though - you just gotta have USBC ports I'm afraid.
Now my X1 doesn't have the build quality of the X220 - but it's still very good and I finally bit the bullet and did what someone well paid who relies on a tool for work should do. I bought the full 5 years support package for my X1. Any hardware issues? Send it in they'll fix it no questions asked. I need the laptop for work, I get paid good money, it's a good investment to have that business level support.
The only area where the X220 is really showing it's age today though - you just gotta have USBC ports I'm afraid.
Sandy Bridge was a really really good release, but it's also not useful to ignore that Intel really did keep improving their product for a while. While their product segmentation (keeping mobile parts pinned at 2 cores, and the quad core limit on desktop) definitely was a form of 'stagnation', Intel made real improvements in their micro architecture, at least up to (and including Skylake).
The real 'lost years' were post Skylake, where we got like 5 generations of Skylake refreshes while Intel couldn't manage to get their new node online.
Here's a review of Skylake (6700k) from way back showing IPC improvement from Sandy Bridge to Skylake - https://www.anandtech.com/show/9483/intel-skylake-review-670...
The real 'lost years' were post Skylake, where we got like 5 generations of Skylake refreshes while Intel couldn't manage to get their new node online.
Here's a review of Skylake (6700k) from way back showing IPC improvement from Sandy Bridge to Skylake - https://www.anandtech.com/show/9483/intel-skylake-review-670...
I know we can point at benchmarks and things like that, all I'm saying is that my personal experience is that I spent a decade trying to find something as good as my top-spec 2012 macbook air, which is pretty depressing. Note obviously I also went via the horribly broken keyboard era of macbook pros. Eventually I settled on a X1 carbon, and then a couple of years later the ARM macbooks came out, but I can't justify buying a new laptop out of cycle if my current one works.
I bought an X1 around 2016, and its still super reliable. I think it was a 4th gen.
It has a couple small issues, sometimes the USB ports fall asleep and never wake up regardless of OS, the lid has a couple hairline cracks where it takes the brunt of the open/close force. The fingerprint reader never worked in Linux.
Aside from that, it still has 90% of its battery life after all this time, boots fast, does everything I need a laptop for.
Even though RAM is soldered, 16gb still works and its a decent sacrifice for a laptop so light and thin.
It has a couple small issues, sometimes the USB ports fall asleep and never wake up regardless of OS, the lid has a couple hairline cracks where it takes the brunt of the open/close force. The fingerprint reader never worked in Linux.
Aside from that, it still has 90% of its battery life after all this time, boots fast, does everything I need a laptop for.
Even though RAM is soldered, 16gb still works and its a decent sacrifice for a laptop so light and thin.
Intel CPUs definitely got better over the years, but Macbooks were nerfed by Apple's mediocre CPU cooler designs. Their power curve was tweaked so users wouldn't notice (boost to extreme speeds extremely quickly to respond to clicks and such fast, then come down fast because the cooling can't sustain the boost speeds) but the CPUs never came out their best in any Macbook design, no matter how expensive they were to buy.
Most Thinkpads haven't been struggling, except maybe their netbook counterpart. Some "workstation" ones with Nvidia hardware in them do put out unreasonable amounts of heat and noise, but that's hard to prevent when Nvidia is the only one making GPU hardware that performs well in laptops.
I must say the Dell and Lenovo support packages are great. Few people buy them, but the knowledge that the company will send someone to your house within 24 hours to either replace a broken part or give you a new laptop should placate a lot of anxiety.
Most Thinkpads haven't been struggling, except maybe their netbook counterpart. Some "workstation" ones with Nvidia hardware in them do put out unreasonable amounts of heat and noise, but that's hard to prevent when Nvidia is the only one making GPU hardware that performs well in laptops.
I must say the Dell and Lenovo support packages are great. Few people buy them, but the knowledge that the company will send someone to your house within 24 hours to either replace a broken part or give you a new laptop should placate a lot of anxiety.
I think the unspoken story of the apple intel relationship in the latter half of the 2010s was that Apple was waiting on intel to release cooler and more efficient chips (by means of smaller processes), and intel might’ve made promises causing apple to adapt smaller and smaller designs for cooler running chips, and intel didn’t deliver.
Intel could've failed their promises in the 2012 Macbook and the blame would fall squarely on them, but when the 2015 Macbook came out, Apple still fell for it. In fact, they got worse over time.
Something tells me they were starting to design for M1 before the M1 was ready. The 2020 Intel Macbook Air ran effectively passively cooled by dumping heat into the motherboard and chassis and cooling a whole different part of the machine.
Apple machines and heat have always been a complicated story. The trash can Mac was innovative in its cooling design, but that same design made upgrading the machine tough. One Macbook model blew hot air right into the place the cover around the screen was glued to, and at one point Nvidia's shitty hardware managed to desolder itself inside a Mac machine because of its bad design.
I'm glad they've found a way to produce cooler chips because it seems Apple's fetish for sleekly designed machines conflicted heavily with their cooling performance.
Something tells me they were starting to design for M1 before the M1 was ready. The 2020 Intel Macbook Air ran effectively passively cooled by dumping heat into the motherboard and chassis and cooling a whole different part of the machine.
Apple machines and heat have always been a complicated story. The trash can Mac was innovative in its cooling design, but that same design made upgrading the machine tough. One Macbook model blew hot air right into the place the cover around the screen was glued to, and at one point Nvidia's shitty hardware managed to desolder itself inside a Mac machine because of its bad design.
I'm glad they've found a way to produce cooler chips because it seems Apple's fetish for sleekly designed machines conflicted heavily with their cooling performance.
I just grabbed a cousin of this model and have been having fun modding it and use it more than my new gaming laptop. It's a A285. I have a surface laptop 4 that's smaller and technically faster but I still enjoy typing on the Thinkpad more and other than ram everything is basically upgradable.
There needs to be more 12in laptops imo.
There needs to be more 12in laptops imo.
A285 is probably the cheapest feeling thinkpad I've every used.
It looks like a thinkpad, but feels "wrong"
It looks like a thinkpad, but feels "wrong"
Best laptop ever made.
« Why Thinkpad X220 is the best laptop ever made
Published on 10.05.2020
I’m rather certain that you will come to the same conclusion, esteemed reader, as I did, namely that the Thinkpad X220 is the best laptop ever made, in consideration of the following points. »
https://okigiveup.net/blog/why-thinkpad-x220-is-the-best-lap...
I have 2 of them, and I love them dearly.
« Why Thinkpad X220 is the best laptop ever made
Published on 10.05.2020
I’m rather certain that you will come to the same conclusion, esteemed reader, as I did, namely that the Thinkpad X220 is the best laptop ever made, in consideration of the following points. »
https://okigiveup.net/blog/why-thinkpad-x220-is-the-best-lap...
I have 2 of them, and I love them dearly.
This is fantastic and actually written more clearly than my own!
As for your point:
> You can’t watch videos on it
I don’t seem to have the same issue? Most videos on the internet stream/load fine without much struggle on my X220. Does your laptop heat up / spin up the fan?
As for your point:
> You can’t watch videos on it
I don’t seem to have the same issue? Most videos on the internet stream/load fine without much struggle on my X220. Does your laptop heat up / spin up the fan?
Just for clarity, I was merely linking to an account I read elsewhere. It's not mine.
Here is one of my several stories on ancient-vs-modern Thinkpads:
https://www.theregister.com/2021/11/26/thinkpad_motherboard_...
I personally detest videos as a source of information and try to avoid watching them. I prefer watching video on a bigger screen several meters away, and I don't do much of that.
That being said, I have both i5 and i7 X220s, i5 and i7 T420s and an quad-core i7 W520. All play video just fine for me, and under Linux their performance is good and they don't run hot.
Here is one of my several stories on ancient-vs-modern Thinkpads:
https://www.theregister.com/2021/11/26/thinkpad_motherboard_...
I personally detest videos as a source of information and try to avoid watching them. I prefer watching video on a bigger screen several meters away, and I don't do much of that.
That being said, I have both i5 and i7 X220s, i5 and i7 T420s and an quad-core i7 W520. All play video just fine for me, and under Linux their performance is good and they don't run hot.
I'm using one right now, running Debian 11. The X220 is pretty near trashed but I do watch videos on it sometimes. I haven't noticed it heating up.
My i5 X220 is a battered old much-repaired much-upgraded thing, but still works fine. Currently it runs ArcaOS but before that Haiku.
My i7 X220 is like new, and works like it too. It is maxed out with 16GB RAM and two SSDs and performs well. I do wish the screen were a bit higher-res, though.
My i7 X220 is like new, and works like it too. It is maxed out with 16GB RAM and two SSDs and performs well. I do wish the screen were a bit higher-res, though.
Never had a problem on YouTube or or similar, but when doing group calls on zoom I had severe overheating issues on my x220. I think the CPU was due a thermal paste replacement, but I never bothered.
I sold one of these. Mistake. I have two T510's still but I miss the smaller form factor.
Sadly the worst ones ever - ours had NVidia onboard GPU and they got toasted after 2 years of moderate non gaming use - company then switched to Dell after that debacle.
A 10yo used eBay X220 got me through four years of college. I did Verilog synthesis on it. I learned how to use i3, and even used my own fork of Sam, an old text editor for Plan9. I wrote my first from-scratch RTOS on it. It's a tremendous laptop even today, but it's also one that holds a special place in my heart.
Another great thing about those laptops is that Libreboot is supported (https://libreboot.org/docs/hardware/#laptops-intel-x86).
One can buy an X230 with Libreboot pre-installed at https://minifree.org/product/libreboot-x230/.
One can buy an X230 with Libreboot pre-installed at https://minifree.org/product/libreboot-x230/.
The X220s only serious flaw was the screen resolution. If it had 1920x1080 it would have been perfect. My favorite laptop of all time. I use an X1 now.
I’m using an X220 with Archlinux short before 10 years now :)
The best feature is the seven row keyboard with regular size and regular key drop. The mobile form-factor in a size of A4/Letter combined with power and docking-ports. Also a small notch to lift the display and USB 3.0 port. Maintainability is great, you can upgrade the BLE 4.0 from the later L-Series, add 16 GB (unofficial) or even swap the entire WiFi/BL (requires MOD-BIOS).
The weak points?
The PCI-Express card slot reduces stiffness of the palmrest. The remaining flat four cell batteries from Lenovo are deep discharged and cannot be charged. The USB 3.0 tends to go into low-power state (use powertop or /sys to change). Some IPS-Displays could show “ghosting”.
It will be replaced now by an X13 Gen3 AMD. It ships in Europe without an operating-system (130 EUR not for Microsoft shareholders - spend that for the FSF, GNOME or Mozilla or your fav Distribution!) and can be shipped preinstalled with Linux. I had to replace the screen by the HiDPI option myself because Lenovo is weird.
Why not Gen4?
I avoid the Gen4 because of the reverse notch sticking out of the chase. The reverse notch is ugly and parts sticking out of the device surface tend to break and hinder save storage. Furthermore the keyboard is hard to replace which is bad because that is the most stressed part.
The best feature is the seven row keyboard with regular size and regular key drop. The mobile form-factor in a size of A4/Letter combined with power and docking-ports. Also a small notch to lift the display and USB 3.0 port. Maintainability is great, you can upgrade the BLE 4.0 from the later L-Series, add 16 GB (unofficial) or even swap the entire WiFi/BL (requires MOD-BIOS).
The weak points?
The PCI-Express card slot reduces stiffness of the palmrest. The remaining flat four cell batteries from Lenovo are deep discharged and cannot be charged. The USB 3.0 tends to go into low-power state (use powertop or /sys to change). Some IPS-Displays could show “ghosting”.
It will be replaced now by an X13 Gen3 AMD. It ships in Europe without an operating-system (130 EUR not for Microsoft shareholders - spend that for the FSF, GNOME or Mozilla or your fav Distribution!) and can be shipped preinstalled with Linux. I had to replace the screen by the HiDPI option myself because Lenovo is weird.
Why not Gen4?
I avoid the Gen4 because of the reverse notch sticking out of the chase. The reverse notch is ugly and parts sticking out of the device surface tend to break and hinder save storage. Furthermore the keyboard is hard to replace which is bad because that is the most stressed part.
I'm still in love with my x201s, the x220 predecessor. It was 16:10 and could have a super high res of… 1440x900, a rare thing in such a small format for the time. These small thinkpads were solid as hell, packed with I/O. Perfect keyboard. You could set it with a 90Wh battery. For a 12" laptop. Haha. Screen quality, speakers, touchpad were all garbage but oh well. So much other stuff was perfect. Good times.
I've been looking for one of those for some years now. In $JOB-1 I had 2 colleagues who were X200 fans and one of them told me about it (and bequeathed me his docking station when he left).
I'm sorry to be that guy, but what is a "screen lock" button? Does the X220 have a button to lock the display, or (again, I'm sorry) are you talking about ScrLock (Scroll Lock)?
Writing this on a ThinkPad with great appreciation for them. And, in fact, I'm genuinely unsure what magical buttons a ThinkPad might have squirreled away.
Writing this on a ThinkPad with great appreciation for them. And, in fact, I'm genuinely unsure what magical buttons a ThinkPad might have squirreled away.
You are correct - that was an autocorrect mistake? I will update the post shortly.
But yes, I do find those little extra keys useful. Print Screen is great since I have it linked with scrot via dwm.
But yes, I do find those little extra keys useful. Print Screen is great since I have it linked with scrot via dwm.
I absolutely adore this machine. Even the little LED lamp in the lid. I use Mac computers for my day job and real life stuff. But when it comes to machines for hobby/linux/hacking around this is still my go-to. It's an amazing machine, especially when you consider the ample supply of cheap units, and replacement parts/batteries/etc. There are aftermarket upgrades including 4K display replacements and more.
X230 seems like a better option to me, you can replace the k/b with a 220 keyboard.
But even though they're built like tanks, these 220/230s are getting old now. Given a choice of old X series thinkpads, the x270 makes more sense - still very decent build quality, modularity, etc, but pretty much better everything. The X280 has soldered ram and other undesirable changs.
For T series, the T480 seems to be the sweeet spot.
But even though they're built like tanks, these 220/230s are getting old now. Given a choice of old X series thinkpads, the x270 makes more sense - still very decent build quality, modularity, etc, but pretty much better everything. The X280 has soldered ram and other undesirable changs.
For T series, the T480 seems to be the sweeet spot.
I should look into replacing my X230 with an X270, they look to now be the same price point I paid for mine second hand three years ago.
Still have one. Still an amazing machine. And still performing quite nicely despite being more than 10 years old by now.
The only limiting factor is the iGPU, which is way too old even for 1080P playback and DX10-level features.
I wish there were any expresscard-sized video cards available, even an heavily downclocked current-day mobile chip would be good enough and within the termal and power requirements of the integrated port; The x220 is fully capable of deactivating the internal video card and sending the signal from the pci-express bus to the integrated display when it detects a discrete one, I've tested it with no issues using an nvidia 750GTX ti and a pci-express adapter.
The only limiting factor is the iGPU, which is way too old even for 1080P playback and DX10-level features.
I wish there were any expresscard-sized video cards available, even an heavily downclocked current-day mobile chip would be good enough and within the termal and power requirements of the integrated port; The x220 is fully capable of deactivating the internal video card and sending the signal from the pci-express bus to the integrated display when it detects a discrete one, I've tested it with no issues using an nvidia 750GTX ti and a pci-express adapter.
"I wish there were any expresscard-sized video cards available"
That would be fantastic - should be a standard capability of newer m.2 slots too.
That would be fantastic - should be a standard capability of newer m.2 slots too.
I've been following (and tempted by) someone on faceboock (lcdfans / Jackyzhang - http://www.cnmod.cn/ ) who has a business of rebuilding x220 / x200 series laptops with modern hardware - the latest I've seen is a "X2100" - an x210 with I7-10710U and 13 inch 3000X2000 IPS...
One day if I have and extra few $k that I'm willing to risk I may ordering one...
One day if I have and extra few $k that I'm willing to risk I may ordering one...
I have an X230 that runs Debian. It has a newer keyboard than the X220. A lot of folks seem to prefer the old keyboard but I think the new one is an improvement and is the best laptop keyboard I’ve found. I put the modern MacBook Air keyboard second to it, and the old X220 keyboard is behind that.
The X230 has a miserable screen though, and the touchpad is so bad they just shouldn’t have bothered. The Trackpoint is good.
It runs Debian stable with no effort at all.
The X230 has a miserable screen though, and the touchpad is so bad they just shouldn’t have bothered. The Trackpoint is good.
It runs Debian stable with no effort at all.
X270 is my PC when I am away from my home office - wish it was a bit faster but then I look at my colleagues lugging around their HP/Dell "gaming" laptops and I am not so envious anymore.
Yeah, an X270 is my newest Thinkpad. I got it as kind of a beater for a vacation that COVID cancelled. That or an X280 feel like kind of the sweet spot for usable almost modern small Thinkpads that can still be upgraded. USB-C port for charging, video out, etc. $70 FHD display panel. Can take two SSDs (one small one in the WWAN slot). It's been mostly fast enough for everything except heavier games but software builds can be slow.
I still have an T440p and a X220 in the workshop they are workhorses. I am Linux only these days but the T440p with MacOS is the perfect laptop if someone sends you a keynote file or you need Xcode.
An X1 is the perfect Air wannabe.
Never used a X220 but am extremely happy with both my X240 and later the X270, which I'm using right now to write this post. I chose those models because for years I used my motorcycle and scooter most of the time and needed something with more beer than the usual netbook, yet very compact, and after adding a bigger external battery I could reach 10+ hours easily. Linux support also is complete, which is common with Thinkpads.
I would be interested in upgrading them one day, but the lack of external batteries in newer models worries me; I want something with serious battery life and would happily add one centimeter thickness for a few hours more.
I would be interested in upgrading them one day, but the lack of external batteries in newer models worries me; I want something with serious battery life and would happily add one centimeter thickness for a few hours more.
I have an old X220. I also have a way older X31 and an X30. One of them has micro-XP running on it. I think it still works.
I don't know why Lenovo likes to throw money to the pit and don't go back to the IBM keyboard layout, I have a t430 with a t420 keyboard mod and despite not being mechanical it's amazing to type on.
There's no good reason to limit yourself to an X220 in favor of an X230.
The X230 is practically identical physically, and can have the X220 keyboard swapped in.
But in the X230 you get a newer gen SoC and the iGPU is vulkan-capable.
The X230 is practically identical physically, and can have the X220 keyboard swapped in.
But in the X230 you get a newer gen SoC and the iGPU is vulkan-capable.
I'm holding on to two x230s as backups (only need one, happen to have two).
Great little machine, still enjoy it for basic hacking and writing once in a while.
Great little machine, still enjoy it for basic hacking and writing once in a while.
you can also get up to 2k screen: https://www.xyte.ch/mods/x230/#x230-display
note: the author of the site has been awol for a while
note: the author of the site has been awol for a while
i currently use x2100 (x200 with 10th gen motherboard and a 3000x2000 13" ips)
https://www.xyte.ch/mods/x210-x2100/ (note: the seller is awol)
would be happy to upgrade to a similar x220 mod with e.g. amd zen 4.
unfortunately, from what i understand lenovo sued the 51nb folk (motherboard designers) out of their business.
https://www.xyte.ch/mods/x210-x2100/ (note: the seller is awol)
would be happy to upgrade to a similar x220 mod with e.g. amd zen 4.
unfortunately, from what i understand lenovo sued the 51nb folk (motherboard designers) out of their business.
My daily driver was a used T530 from 2012 - it was the version that had the best GPU. It was a hefty machine. I used to always tell friends - if I ever dropped it on the floor, I'm checking the floor first for damage.
I used to push that machine like crazy. My greatest achievement was running Fallout New Vegas on it. I put everything as low as possible, and installed mods to remove extra things from rendering. When I would stare out at a desert I would see absolutely nothing - all the rocks and trees were removed. My other greatest achievement was getting Metro 2033 running as well.
For both games it made my poor T530 sound like a jet engine.
All that being said, I always wish I bought a X220. The repairs seem a lot easier. Taking apart my T530 to clean the fans was much, much more difficult than doing the same for an MBP Unibody 2012.
I've since purchased an M1 MBP off of a college kid. He bought the MBP so that he wouldn't game, and then he sold it to me because he wanted to game.
I miss Linux and my thinkpad though. This post is really getting me thinking of buying a thinkpad again.
I used to push that machine like crazy. My greatest achievement was running Fallout New Vegas on it. I put everything as low as possible, and installed mods to remove extra things from rendering. When I would stare out at a desert I would see absolutely nothing - all the rocks and trees were removed. My other greatest achievement was getting Metro 2033 running as well.
For both games it made my poor T530 sound like a jet engine.
All that being said, I always wish I bought a X220. The repairs seem a lot easier. Taking apart my T530 to clean the fans was much, much more difficult than doing the same for an MBP Unibody 2012.
I've since purchased an M1 MBP off of a college kid. He bought the MBP so that he wouldn't game, and then he sold it to me because he wanted to game.
I miss Linux and my thinkpad though. This post is really getting me thinking of buying a thinkpad again.
So where do folks get good x220 batteries? My x220 is still running well but mostly tethered to the power brick these days.
I have had a lot of think odd and almost always enjoyed them.
The talk of the x220s has me looking at x270:a
I’m surprised there wasn’t a mention of a 12” MacBook listed here.
One of the last macs that easily dual boots to Linux, only 2lbs, and the 2017 version has the keyboard figured out (finally). Handles up to 16 gb ram and an i7 too.
It’s portability like the x220 is hard to skip of.
The talk of the x220s has me looking at x270:a
I’m surprised there wasn’t a mention of a 12” MacBook listed here.
One of the last macs that easily dual boots to Linux, only 2lbs, and the 2017 version has the keyboard figured out (finally). Handles up to 16 gb ram and an i7 too.
It’s portability like the x220 is hard to skip of.
I love this style of writing: Opinionated, togue-in-cheek and unapologetic. Such a better review that those dry, overly-diplomatic reviews on most tech sites. Give me someone who uses the device every day and has strong opinions over someone who reviews a half-dozen new laptops each week.
I bought a second hand X230 about three years ago and was so impressed I bought a second one for my Wife. Thinkpads from that era feel so well built and for a laptop thats a decade old at this point it still holds up as a daily driver now that I have replaced its battery with a new one.
I had an X220t once. It was a great machine, but I kept my W500 instead. The latter is even better built and easier to disassemble. I like its keyboard quite a bit more as well. To me, the T/Wx00 line was the last of the best the brand had to offer.
A few years earlier I found a some quantity of this laptop just before they go to garbage. I installed Debian on it and send all of them to africa. I'm sure they are still working, somewhere on a little island in the Mozambique Channel.
It was truly one of the best, and with a docking station i could literally have my business with me all the time. Its a mystery why other manufacturers don't iterate on this awesomeness
Strange. My brother was running this laptop and had to replace display twice because there is a mechanical point of failure with how the display cable is layed out within the case.
If Lenovo hadn't ended up 10 years behind Apple in display technology I'd probably never have made the jump to Apple and would still be using one today.
I have really loved my x220. But I wouldn't call it the best laptop. The screen is small and bad, and the body flexes way too much.
Dell 5451 truly feels like a piece of crap after using a T470 then some kind of IdeaPad at my previous workplace
Its sad to remember how fast those things got changed to unrepairable junk. I have an X280 repurposed as a server with Debian because its display got crazy and unusable. Repairability of X series is almost non existent now. Corporate greed has no bounds I guess.
My T43 was the best laptop I ever owned. My son still runs Raspbian on it.
I used an X200s for many many years. Loved it to death - even though it only had 1280 x 800px - and no touch pad.
I now use an M1 MacBook Air. It is better in many ways, but I miss the Thinkpad keyboard!
I now use an M1 MacBook Air. It is better in many ways, but I miss the Thinkpad keyboard!
My travel machine is a Thinkpad X13s. I'm stuck on Windows for most of my work, but it's been an utter treat to use while on the road (especially with the onboard 5G). It's one of the first machines I've been able to use that a 10+ hour day away from a charger is finally feasible under my working conditions.
I have written about getting Linux onto them recently.
Ubuntu is just about there now, and Armbian works acceptably booted from a USB key.
With Windows, but you know this stuff:
https://www.theregister.com/2023/03/21/lenovo_thinkpad_x13s_...
Update: now with added Linux:
https://www.theregister.com/2023/09/08/linux_on_the_thinkpad...
Ubuntu is just about there now, and Armbian works acceptably booted from a USB key.
With Windows, but you know this stuff:
https://www.theregister.com/2023/03/21/lenovo_thinkpad_x13s_...
Update: now with added Linux:
https://www.theregister.com/2023/09/08/linux_on_the_thinkpad...
Ah, I actually got mine well before your review ;) I've had mine for a year now (Aug 2022); here in the States I took advantage of my mobile carrier's 0% financing to grab one direct from them. It was a bullet to bite for sure but it's well paid off. My only hardware gripe is the one you've pointed out - no USB-A kills me sometimes if I forget to pack a dongle.
For me having the onboard 5G was the ultimate boon. Sure, hotspotting is An Thing, but it's so much nicer to just not have to think about that and let the laptop do all the work. Verizon gives me true-full-unlimited data on its Ultra Wideband 5G coverage, and it's so weirdly satisfying to have almost "wireless fiber" jammed into the thing - I've seen multi-Gbps speedtests out of this thing on the cell network.
For me having the onboard 5G was the ultimate boon. Sure, hotspotting is An Thing, but it's so much nicer to just not have to think about that and let the laptop do all the work. Verizon gives me true-full-unlimited data on its Ultra Wideband 5G coverage, and it's so weirdly satisfying to have almost "wireless fiber" jammed into the thing - I've seen multi-Gbps speedtests out of this thing on the cell network.
My first exposure to a ThinkPad laptop was when work issued me a T60.
It was absolutely awful in virtually every aspect. Performance was terrible, the bundled software was complete garbage (but the machine wouldn't function properly without it), the fingerprint reader was incredibly temperamental (it never worked), the ergonomics were terrible (carrying it was physically painful thanks to the sharp edges), etc.
I honestly couldn't believe that a ThinkPad, which had such a stellar reputation, could be this terrible.
That T60 completely ruined the ThinkPad name for me. When it was time to replace it I requested a MacBook Pro and I've never looked back.
It was absolutely awful in virtually every aspect. Performance was terrible, the bundled software was complete garbage (but the machine wouldn't function properly without it), the fingerprint reader was incredibly temperamental (it never worked), the ergonomics were terrible (carrying it was physically painful thanks to the sharp edges), etc.
I honestly couldn't believe that a ThinkPad, which had such a stellar reputation, could be this terrible.
That T60 completely ruined the ThinkPad name for me. When it was time to replace it I requested a MacBook Pro and I've never looked back.
I bet the author would be happy with a Dell Inspiron 7490, my personal candidate for the ThinkPad x220 of 2023.
Sent from a Dell Inspirion 7490 purchased in 2023
Sent from a Dell Inspirion 7490 purchased in 2023
What's ThinkPad purists' opinion on X1 Nano? It felt almost as good as an X61 from my brief interactions.
Yes, but the display...cannot call it the best laptop of all time with that pitiful screen.
My x240 would crash if I picked it up with one hand and the original screen was garbage.
God I miss chonky laptops. Instead of toting it around or throwing it in a bag I have to put it in a protective case first that makes it just as thick as the old one. I'll never get over the loss of the sheer convenience of being able to store a bluetooth mouse inside the laptop's ExpressCard slot.
Or you can get a framework laptop
is there a more modern version that would have the swappable battery?
I use an x250 which has dual batteries
An internal 3 cell battery and a removable 3 cell battery (a 6 cell one is also available)
I don't have a spare but the main point of this set up is to allow hot swapping of batteries wit no shutdowns when AC is unavailable
An internal 3 cell battery and a removable 3 cell battery (a 6 cell one is also available)
I don't have a spare but the main point of this set up is to allow hot swapping of batteries wit no shutdowns when AC is unavailable
The X270 too. And it has an USB c port as well.
https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_X...
https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_X...
X200/201, X220/230, X240/250/260, X270/280/A275/285 are each substantially different. Between slashed groups there are limited parts interchangeability e.g. battery, X250 trackpad retrofit on X240. In case that matters.
Lenovo installs spyware. All trust for their brand is lost, in my opinion.
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Having a VGA port is such a waste of space
Finally I decided to ditch my last one by choice this summer and got a Thinkpad X13 Yoga Gen 3 and I really love it. Battery life of at least ten hours for what I'm doing. Still great Linux support. It's not too much lighter than the X220T, but it's a whole lot thinner and that's important trying to shove a whole lot of stuff in one bag. Also: USB-C charging means I no longer have to carry around a big proprietary brick and cable. I can just use the same charger as my phone. That's also important when it comes to weight and space savings.
The reason I chose this model in particular is because like the X220T, it also has the digitizer pen garaged in the frame. Really hard to find laptops that met that, and USB C, and thin, and Thinkpad keyboard + mouse nub. In fact I think it's the only one.
If this (fingers crossed) lasts me a while, amortized I don't think the cost up front will be that much more than what I would've had to have spent upgrading and transferring parts between eBay franken-ThinkPads over the same time.