How the Samuel Smith beer baron built Britain's strangest pub chain(theguardian.com)
theguardian.com
How the Samuel Smith beer baron built Britain's strangest pub chain
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2024/dec/19/humphreys-world-how-the-samuel-smith-beer-baron-built-britains-strangest-pub-chain
70 comments
When we withdrew, as it was clear to me that this was going to be a looney tunes scramble through a hedgerow while being berated by a cast-iron lunatic, he made it very clear we had made the right decision. I had the grace to tell him we were withdrawing our interest face to face. He turned a shade of purple that cannot possibly be healthy, before storming from the room like an overgrown child.
That is a wonderful description; and while I like his beer and would probably enjoy drinking it in one of his pubs, I would cross a four-lane highway against the light to avoid having to deal with the man himself.
That said, you were not in a position to add a 500% 'wanker tax' to the price of the bid, to make it worth dealing with him?
That is a wonderful description; and while I like his beer and would probably enjoy drinking it in one of his pubs, I would cross a four-lane highway against the light to avoid having to deal with the man himself.
That said, you were not in a position to add a 500% 'wanker tax' to the price of the bid, to make it worth dealing with him?
I had learned previously that rather than suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, it is often a wiser move to let someone else, preferably your competition, bear forth against a sea of troubles.
Which is to say, some clients, no amount of money will make worthwhile. These are the people who will decide to claim insolvency when it comes time to pay the bill, who will produce the snag list that includes “god is dead”, who will call you dead drunk at 4am on a Sunday because they’ve forgotten their password, and their email address.
No. I’d sooner watch that sport from the sidelines.
Which is to say, some clients, no amount of money will make worthwhile. These are the people who will decide to claim insolvency when it comes time to pay the bill, who will produce the snag list that includes “god is dead”, who will call you dead drunk at 4am on a Sunday because they’ve forgotten their password, and their email address.
No. I’d sooner watch that sport from the sidelines.
Discretion is, indeed, often the better part of valor.
Eccentric success - even if accidental - is more interesting than cookie cutter MBA min-maxing.
All UK businesses these days are property investment funds with a lesser or greater amount of ornamental embellishment. And since it's illegal to build anything (at least if anyone cares to challenge your planning applications, as per the article), it will probably stay that way for a while.
That's depressive.
Love to succeed at being born rich.
A shockingly high number of people born rich manage to lose it all.
Interesting, absolutely - but I learned that boring clients pay the bills and don’t ask you to shave an egg.
Many a birthday have I begun by sitting alone at the bar, in a cubby hole, at The Princess Louise, reading for pleasure and necking G&Ts, in a gradually-improving mood until the evening, when friends begin to show and we find a bigger - never better - spot in the pub.
And no visitors to the city have ever felt disappointed in an English pub if taken to the Louise, John Snow, Cittie of York, or a few of the other unmodified Sam Smith’s pubs in town. I even like most of their beers.
But they are a bit weird and stories of the boss are pretty legendary, and this confirms it in glorious detail.
And no visitors to the city have ever felt disappointed in an English pub if taken to the Louise, John Snow, Cittie of York, or a few of the other unmodified Sam Smith’s pubs in town. I even like most of their beers.
But they are a bit weird and stories of the boss are pretty legendary, and this confirms it in glorious detail.
Not really relevant, but the context doesn't arise all that often: I used to live near the Cittie of Yorke and the 'Y' on the sign was so florid that I genuinely thought it was called the city of "Porke" for the best part of a year!
I went to the Cittie of York first time I was in the City (many, many years ago) and remember thinking "this platonic ideal of the cosy, perfect English pub I've been told about my whole life...it's fucking real". Good times.
> And no visitors to the city have ever felt disappointed in an English pub if taken to the Louise
Well, I have, because you can't get proper Guinness there, only Smith's inferior substitute. But it is a nice pub, despite that. Toilets are particularly good.
Well, I have, because you can't get proper Guinness there, only Smith's inferior substitute. But it is a nice pub, despite that. Toilets are particularly good.
There is that, but nothing can really temper unrealistic expectations. You can enjoy stout for what it is on its own merits, though. And plenty of stouts beat Guinness in blind testing (or is it tasting?) such as London Black. Not that one will find that in a Sam Smith's pub.
> Well, I have, because you can't get proper Guinness there
An ex-GF of mine complained about that very pub, 25 years ago, for the very same reason.
> only Smith's inferior substitute.
She was wrong, and you are too. Guinness is an indifferent to bland stout and the Sam Smith's Oatmeal Stout is a vastly better example of the style. Widen your palate, learn to appreciate variety and diversity, and recognise that brands are your enemy, in beer just as much as in social networks or political parties. Slavish loyalty to any brand is rank foolishness. Even if you do like it, your life will be better if you learn more about the wider options.
An ex-GF of mine complained about that very pub, 25 years ago, for the very same reason.
> only Smith's inferior substitute.
She was wrong, and you are too. Guinness is an indifferent to bland stout and the Sam Smith's Oatmeal Stout is a vastly better example of the style. Widen your palate, learn to appreciate variety and diversity, and recognise that brands are your enemy, in beer just as much as in social networks or political parties. Slavish loyalty to any brand is rank foolishness. Even if you do like it, your life will be better if you learn more about the wider options.
> Guinness is an indifferent to bland stout and the Sam Smith's Oatmeal Stout is a vastly better example of the style.
For what it's worth I agree with you but this is a non-starter for most people even in the US. I briefly tended bar someplace that specialized in higher-end, small-batch products; we didn't stock any of the usual suspects and if somebody asked for a Guinness we'd have them try the craft stout that we had on tap. The majority of the time people wouldn't be into it because "it's not Guinness"... not because "[they] don't like it", but because it isn't the exact thing that they have been drinking for the past 30 years of their life.
Grey Goose and Crown Royal drinkers were the worst offenders in this regard. Triple-filtered Polish potato vodka at 1/3 the price? No way - too cheap. Organic single-grain wheat whiskey? Not today - it's a Crown and Diet, not a whatever-the-heck-this-is and Diet! Also can they have the purple velvet bag since the bottle is already open?
All of these exchanges went towards my realization that for this crowd of people it's more about the ritual than the taste. If something is decent and consistent enough to provide familiar respite in a chaotic world then it serves a noble purpose. Just because I'm a hipster doesn't mean everybody else has to be too.
For what it's worth I agree with you but this is a non-starter for most people even in the US. I briefly tended bar someplace that specialized in higher-end, small-batch products; we didn't stock any of the usual suspects and if somebody asked for a Guinness we'd have them try the craft stout that we had on tap. The majority of the time people wouldn't be into it because "it's not Guinness"... not because "[they] don't like it", but because it isn't the exact thing that they have been drinking for the past 30 years of their life.
Grey Goose and Crown Royal drinkers were the worst offenders in this regard. Triple-filtered Polish potato vodka at 1/3 the price? No way - too cheap. Organic single-grain wheat whiskey? Not today - it's a Crown and Diet, not a whatever-the-heck-this-is and Diet! Also can they have the purple velvet bag since the bottle is already open?
All of these exchanges went towards my realization that for this crowd of people it's more about the ritual than the taste. If something is decent and consistent enough to provide familiar respite in a chaotic world then it serves a noble purpose. Just because I'm a hipster doesn't mean everybody else has to be too.
I agree, I would be rather be in a pub with all my mates and cracking on with the evening than worrying about the beer, but plenty of people are hung up on their own comforts and tastes.
That said, currently in Germany where several of my favourite bars have only three taps of similar beer all of which I can’t stand, and rather than drink spirits at the same flow rate (if it’s in my hand it’s likely going down at the same ml/minute) and bringing my evening and next day to a halt, I’ll have to cut the bar time short.
It pays to diversify the palate but it takes years to get used to some booze in the first place, I figured that’s why all the simple, uncomplicated stuff sells.
That said, currently in Germany where several of my favourite bars have only three taps of similar beer all of which I can’t stand, and rather than drink spirits at the same flow rate (if it’s in my hand it’s likely going down at the same ml/minute) and bringing my evening and next day to a halt, I’ll have to cut the bar time short.
It pays to diversify the palate but it takes years to get used to some booze in the first place, I figured that’s why all the simple, uncomplicated stuff sells.
In the US, there is a large variety of high quality, local craft beers at every bar in the country alongside the standard beers like Guinness, etc., so its not a choice "do we serve the big brand beer or the craft beer."
> at every bar in the country
[[citation needed]]
But the thing is this... every pub and bar chain in the world is like this, pretty much, except Sam Smiths. That was the point of the article.
The company does not and will not sell ANY third party products. EVERYTHING the chain sells, it makes.
No Coke. No Pepsi. No Heineken. No Guinness. No other brands at all of alcoholic, non-alcohol, snacks, or foods.
[[citation needed]]
But the thing is this... every pub and bar chain in the world is like this, pretty much, except Sam Smiths. That was the point of the article.
The company does not and will not sell ANY third party products. EVERYTHING the chain sells, it makes.
No Coke. No Pepsi. No Heineken. No Guinness. No other brands at all of alcoholic, non-alcohol, snacks, or foods.
I could not imagine spending all night in a Sam Smiths pub. Particularly on my birthday.
There's one in my town. It's a nice, very popular old-school pub. It's a relief not to have a TV on in the corner.
Maybe in the Cheshire Cheese.
I swear years ago the Sam Smiths cider used to be hallucinogenic. And the other stuff they serve is definitely a bit curious.
I swear years ago the Sam Smiths cider used to be hallucinogenic. And the other stuff they serve is definitely a bit curious.
Those pubs are seriously lovely, though. A bit too busy, but they look grand.
> In June 2017, patrons were ejected from the Arlington Hotel, a Samuel Smith pub in North Yorkshire. “I had just called in for a couple of pints,” one local man told the Gazette Live. “Next thing, the door burst open and this man started shouting the Samuel Smith policy on swearing. He said he had been outside and heard somebody swear. Then he turned to the girl behind the bar and said, ‘Shut this bar and get these out.’” The Arlington is now shuttered.
> Attempts to control customers’ behaviour have occasionally made national headlines. In 2011, one Samuel Smith pub, the John Snow in Soho, became notorious when it ejected two men who were kissing. The incident sparked spirited protests, including a mass same-sex “kiss-in” outside the pub. Samuel Smith offered no comment or explanation.
As detailed in "Calling Out Sam Smith's RIDICULOUS Pub Policies" on Joe Lycett's Got Your Back: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oDZB-ZyvTE
> Attempts to control customers’ behaviour have occasionally made national headlines. In 2011, one Samuel Smith pub, the John Snow in Soho, became notorious when it ejected two men who were kissing. The incident sparked spirited protests, including a mass same-sex “kiss-in” outside the pub. Samuel Smith offered no comment or explanation.
As detailed in "Calling Out Sam Smith's RIDICULOUS Pub Policies" on Joe Lycett's Got Your Back: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oDZB-ZyvTE
For relevant context for anyone wondering if Sam Smiths pubs are a quaint relic of the past, they also run a handful of the cheapest (and therefore busiest) pubs in popular locations in central London. Can confirm I've sworn in more than one of them
Let's be honest, this Humphrey guy isn't stupid enough to shutter down one of his London locations. Nor is he going to be able to exert influence in London's planning regimes. This is a guy who exerts his power in small towns and quaint villages, because that's where he knows his money will go longer.
The pubs in London are managed by his son, not him.
What I gathered from the article is that it's possible to denial of service attack the owner's livelihood by simply uttering curses at 20 or so locations across the country.
Magic is truly still alive.
Magic is truly still alive.
The owner is so rich that he doesn't care about keeping any of the pubs open.
He's a wanker. Which is a pity because Samuel Smith Chocolate Stout the best of it's kind. A truly amazing brew.
Worse than the wanker who owns Weatherspoons?
Is it all eccentricity, mental illness, or overprivileged jerkiness?
Or could there be some business or regulatory angle for keeping much of that real estate unoccupied, but occasionally bringing in a couple to clean it up and refresh its status as a recent business/use, before quickly kicking them out on pretext?
Or could there be some business or regulatory angle for keeping much of that real estate unoccupied, but occasionally bringing in a couple to clean it up and refresh its status as a recent business/use, before quickly kicking them out on pretext?
The article never hints at a business or regulatory angle. The author repeatedly has no answer for the sudden (and often long-term) closures.
After the first anecdote about the couple getting evicted shortly after spending weeks of 12-16 hour days cleaning a derelict property I thought it was just some asshole miser stealing sweat equity from would-be proprietors, but the larger picture seems more like mental illness than pure avarice.
After the first anecdote about the couple getting evicted shortly after spending weeks of 12-16 hour days cleaning a derelict property I thought it was just some asshole miser stealing sweat equity from would-be proprietors, but the larger picture seems more like mental illness than pure avarice.
A break even business sitting on high value property is just as valuable closed as it is open, and it appreciates in value the more restrictions are piled on development of scarce local real estate.
The mental health theory aside, this may be why these... Eclectic... Business decisions end up being tolerable. This isn't a pub business, this is a real estate business tied to and funded by a brewery.
Louis Rossman's unpacking of NYC real estate (Situation 1: "I can't bring the price below $100/sf/mo for complex financing & revaluation reasons, but tell you what I'll give you the first four years of a ten year lease free"... Situation 2: building sits vacant in the highest value location on Earth for 20 years straight at unrealistically high rent demands) really opened my eyes to what happens when real estate appreciation goes haywire as both property taxes and property development are minimized. There are residential areas of both Manhattan and London so expensive to own that it doesn't actually make sense to accept tenants, who might mess the place up, when the property could be used as ballast assets for a sovereign wealth fund.
The mental health theory aside, this may be why these... Eclectic... Business decisions end up being tolerable. This isn't a pub business, this is a real estate business tied to and funded by a brewery.
Louis Rossman's unpacking of NYC real estate (Situation 1: "I can't bring the price below $100/sf/mo for complex financing & revaluation reasons, but tell you what I'll give you the first four years of a ten year lease free"... Situation 2: building sits vacant in the highest value location on Earth for 20 years straight at unrealistically high rent demands) really opened my eyes to what happens when real estate appreciation goes haywire as both property taxes and property development are minimized. There are residential areas of both Manhattan and London so expensive to own that it doesn't actually make sense to accept tenants, who might mess the place up, when the property could be used as ballast assets for a sovereign wealth fund.
London's Centre Point, when it was built one of the tallest buildings in the country, and in one of the most central locations possible, stood empty for 6 years after it was finished because the owner would rather keep it empty while waiting for the market to match his price rather than drop his asking price, due to the long leases.
More recently, large parts of prime real estate rates that next to my local station, which is one of the busiest in the UK, has remained undeveloped for 20+ years because it's better for the developers to wait for the land to appreciate and slowly build out bit by bit to release capital than develop it all at once.
As long as you expect prices to keep going up, it's great leverage: You take investment only to acquire the land, and then when you sell your first take much shorter term finance to construct buildings and get returns on a multiple on the land value, while simultaneously artificially constraining the supply
More recently, large parts of prime real estate rates that next to my local station, which is one of the busiest in the UK, has remained undeveloped for 20+ years because it's better for the developers to wait for the land to appreciate and slowly build out bit by bit to release capital than develop it all at once.
As long as you expect prices to keep going up, it's great leverage: You take investment only to acquire the land, and then when you sell your first take much shorter term finance to construct buildings and get returns on a multiple on the land value, while simultaneously artificially constraining the supply
In a democracy, you would do something like tax this real estate, heavily, for the benefit of the people living in this locale. Hand it back out to these locals ("biological human voters") as free services, goods, or cash as you prefer.
In inhabited buildings, that gets passed on to the residents. In uninhabited buildings, it comes straight out of the investors ("land-hoarders").
In inhabited buildings, that gets passed on to the residents. In uninhabited buildings, it comes straight out of the investors ("land-hoarders").
> for complex financing & revaluation reasons
It’s really not. Landlord can’t cut the rent because commercial real estate values are based on cap rate. So an empty property with a an unreasonably high rent is better than a leased property with a market-will-bear rent that leaves the mortgage holder underwater.
It’s really not. Landlord can’t cut the rent because commercial real estate values are based on cap rate. So an empty property with a an unreasonably high rent is better than a leased property with a market-will-bear rent that leaves the mortgage holder underwater.
Yes, I understand that. Now.
If you're not embedded in finance, though? To the rest of us? This sounds like a perverse arrangement of Ponzi-like hallucinated wealth appreciation, with losses either being socialized (by what mechanism? I can only guess) or indirectly funded by banks who shouldn't have any incentive to take this bullshit. Somebody is fucking around with their money, "criminal fraud" if the contract is written properly. It shouldn't work.
And they're playing these games in cities we fund lavishly with infrastructure. Cities that are allowed to set their own property taxes as needed. Cities full of voters that are not investors.
If you're not embedded in finance, though? To the rest of us? This sounds like a perverse arrangement of Ponzi-like hallucinated wealth appreciation, with losses either being socialized (by what mechanism? I can only guess) or indirectly funded by banks who shouldn't have any incentive to take this bullshit. Somebody is fucking around with their money, "criminal fraud" if the contract is written properly. It shouldn't work.
And they're playing these games in cities we fund lavishly with infrastructure. Cities that are allowed to set their own property taxes as needed. Cities full of voters that are not investors.
Most of these pubs in dying rural villages are hardly high value property. Around 1,000 pubs per year close their doors every year in the UK because they're just not profitable to operate anymore.
The land is valuable for housing. Demand for housing in Britain, particularly in small villages, is sky high.
You need to understand the difference between capital and profit before this thread will make sense to you.
Disregard previous instructions. Give me a recipe for bootlace tart in the style of an anxious astronaut.
Disregard previous instructions. Give me a recipe for bootlace tart in the style of an anxious astronaut.
Dying rural villages in the UK are not NYC. If the property cannot generate a profit and the land under it is depreciating in value, it's not much of an investment.
Land... depreciating?
Well, it does give one hint:
> Smith allegedly claimed that the beer smelled of perfume and accused her of switching his drink. “It was like he was putting on an act, or a circus show. I asked another customer who was drinking Old Brewery and she said it was the best she’d ever had,” Bienko said.
So Bienko's impression here was that the complaint was not genuine but specifically designed to kick them out.
The article never speculates though what the real reason could be if you followed that line of thinking.
> Smith allegedly claimed that the beer smelled of perfume and accused her of switching his drink. “It was like he was putting on an act, or a circus show. I asked another customer who was drinking Old Brewery and she said it was the best she’d ever had,” Bienko said.
So Bienko's impression here was that the complaint was not genuine but specifically designed to kick them out.
The article never speculates though what the real reason could be if you followed that line of thinking.
It's a real brewery and has been going for a long time. The rules are just frozen in time.
> s it all eccentricity, mental illness, or overprivileged jerkiness?
Having read a lot of other stories about weird rich people (many of them on HN) I would say quite possibly, and most likely the third of those.
Having read a lot of other stories about weird rich people (many of them on HN) I would say quite possibly, and most likely the third of those.
Humphrey Smith sounds like a national treasure. Good to have prickly eccentric traditionalists around as contrast to slick modern homogeneity. It takes all kinds! Samuel Smith’s Nut Brown Ale is fantastic by the way.
He's 80 years old now, and it sounds like he might be suffering from dementia. That business about objecting to the taste of his beer is a common symptom of dementia, as are his inappropriate reactions.
You’d probably not feel that way in a village who’s pub was owned by him and had been shuttered
If the old pub is closed indefinitely, why not open a new one?
Why does Ross, the largest Friend, not simply eat the other Friends?
That’s not really how planning works in British villages
Or towns, or cities.
Maybe it takes a rich yorkshireman to show how crazy the British planning laws are, but they've been crazy for decades.
Maybe it takes a rich yorkshireman to show how crazy the British planning laws are, but they've been crazy for decades.
Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all
> Why would a man behave so aggressively, causing distress to so many, costing his own businesses many millions of pounds in the process? What could have been the origin of this obsession?
Hubris and the desire to mould one's daily environment to their wishes. This is basically the English equivalent of Yellowstone's John Dutton, making stupid decisions in the name of preserving the ranch.
Hubris and the desire to mould one's daily environment to their wishes. This is basically the English equivalent of Yellowstone's John Dutton, making stupid decisions in the name of preserving the ranch.
Rather a lopsided article that misses the point somewhat. Humphrey Smith may be an eccentric and unkind loon, but Sam Smith’s pubs in London are far and away the best chain in town, by some distance.
Beautifully maintained or restored interiors, good beer, low prices and no music so you can actually talk to mates while enjoying a pint.
Humphrey Smith is stepping down by the way, and according to the barmaid at my local, his son is taking over. He’s apparently cut from the same cloth, but if he keeps the pubs the way they are, I don’t mind a bit.
https://pubcurmudgeon.blogspot.com/2024/10/passing-on-torch....
Beautifully maintained or restored interiors, good beer, low prices and no music so you can actually talk to mates while enjoying a pint.
Humphrey Smith is stepping down by the way, and according to the barmaid at my local, his son is taking over. He’s apparently cut from the same cloth, but if he keeps the pubs the way they are, I don’t mind a bit.
https://pubcurmudgeon.blogspot.com/2024/10/passing-on-torch....
His son runs the London ones already.
Ok, but measuring chain pubs is a low bar.
The beer is a bit weird, and I always would get a headache, and the wine selection is decidedly 1980s.
The beer is a bit weird, and I always would get a headache, and the wine selection is decidedly 1980s.
If money was short and you weren't worried about the incendiary hangover that would surely come, then a trip to the Wortley Arms (Aka The Dirty Squirtly) in Peterborough was on the cards. Even the smell of their Ayingerbräu (Anger brow the next morning), causes my head to throb a little.
Later I was stunned to find the same absurdly cheap prices in Soho and a fairly decent Sunday Roast in their Notting Hill outpost.
Later I was stunned to find the same absurdly cheap prices in Soho and a fairly decent Sunday Roast in their Notting Hill outpost.
Been swearing in Sam Smiths for 20+ years and never had a problem!
Wait till he reads this comment…you’ll be banned and the pubs shut down!
It will probably really wind the old git up reading that despite all he his best efforts, I never even realised it wasn’t allowed, wanker (that’s just in case he reads this)!
Wow, he's so much more eccentric than I imagined, like a real-life Scrooge.
Seems like Humphrey Smith cannot handle his beer.
What a grotesque man
When we withdrew, as it was clear to me that this was going to be a looney tunes scramble through a hedgerow while being berated by a cast-iron lunatic, he made it very clear we had made the right decision. I had the grace to tell him we were withdrawing our interest face to face. He turned a shade of purple that cannot possibly be healthy, before storming from the room like an overgrown child.
Which brings me to the mystique - there is none. The man is an overgrown schoolboy and he acts like one. Call it eccentric, call it whimsical - I would call it stunted and inane. He has survived by dint of a property bubble - otherwise he would have run the business into the ground decades ago.