Looking for work is a full time job(resumevue.com)
resumevue.com
Looking for work is a full time job
https://www.resumevue.com/board
53 comments
We're seeing a flood of fake AI generated job applications basically DDOSing our hiring funnel. Not sure how widespread it is but it has become enormously frustrating to sift the complete garbage from the good resumes. I'm sure a lot of good people have been accidentally filtered out
It's rough out there right now. Also, not even sure what the benefit or angle is for spamming fake job applications. State actors trying to sabotage?
Edit: We can tell that some of the applications are fake because we have people fail background screenings and often the attached LinkedIn profile is using AI generated images and job histories that don't add up.
It's rough out there right now. Also, not even sure what the benefit or angle is for spamming fake job applications. State actors trying to sabotage?
Edit: We can tell that some of the applications are fake because we have people fail background screenings and often the attached LinkedIn profile is using AI generated images and job histories that don't add up.
> I've been a Full Stack Machine Learning Data Scientist DevOps Engineer for 3 years. I've used every cloud platform, every provisioning tool, every major operating system release (Windows and Linux) going back to 2003. I write code in every major language and have used every major queueing system, web server, application server, networking stack, and database engine. I read in binary, ternary, octal, decimal, and hexadecimal and process information at 12.9 exaFLOPS.
The reason you are getting spammed is because a) agencies are trying to secure an interview before they have a candidate; b) they are trying to convince you to use their offshore teams. Ask around inside your company if any offers from offshore providers have been submitted/talks are being conducted. DDoS-ing hiring funnels is a way to convince you that "no good people are available".
Intriguing... Any other info you can provide on this, sources, articles, etc?
This is based on my own experience and conversations with hiring managers and recruiter over the last two years. I have also been involved in screening CVs. It's impossible to keep up with the flood of fake CVs.
Its perfectly nefarious! Was just wondering if there was anything written about it yet. Thanks!
When I see an ad for a hybrid role that pays £200 pd inside IR35 I know it is designed to "prove" that there are no suitable candidates interested in it in the UK.
Clever tactic, info overload them, then sell the solution
> not even sure what the benefit or angle is for spamming fake job applications
Ok, tinfoil hat time. Suppose for a moment that the AI hype is true, and that two years from now everyone will have access to god-like coding ability on the cheap. Even if it's untrue, there are plenty who believe this is the case. Seems to me like there are two ways for that to go:
1. Coding jobs get scarcer and scarcer and the only remaining ones are populated people willing to work unreasonably hard to keep them.
2. Coders being the group with the most on-the-job experience re: driving an AI (acquired back in the days when coding was all it was good for) all quit their jobs to start their own companies--because why bother with the bureaucracy of a large company when you can now do the same work with four employees?
I'm not sure who exactly would want to influence the general vibe towards 1 and away from 2, I guess somebody who believed the hype enough to see 2. as a threat, but not enough to see it as an ideal outcome. Or maybe someone whose product is more valuable against a backdrop of an impossible-to-navigate job market. Whoever they are, DDOSing job applications would be a way to achieve that goal.
Ok, tinfoil hat time. Suppose for a moment that the AI hype is true, and that two years from now everyone will have access to god-like coding ability on the cheap. Even if it's untrue, there are plenty who believe this is the case. Seems to me like there are two ways for that to go:
1. Coding jobs get scarcer and scarcer and the only remaining ones are populated people willing to work unreasonably hard to keep them.
2. Coders being the group with the most on-the-job experience re: driving an AI (acquired back in the days when coding was all it was good for) all quit their jobs to start their own companies--because why bother with the bureaucracy of a large company when you can now do the same work with four employees?
I'm not sure who exactly would want to influence the general vibe towards 1 and away from 2, I guess somebody who believed the hype enough to see 2. as a threat, but not enough to see it as an ideal outcome. Or maybe someone whose product is more valuable against a backdrop of an impossible-to-navigate job market. Whoever they are, DDOSing job applications would be a way to achieve that goal.
Its crazy at the moment, you can use bots to just automatically apply. Also the ease of Quick Apply on LinkedIn makes it so simple to just apply and not really consider if your right for the role. I suppose it feels like your making progress but your right it is spamming, I was 100% guilty of this for the first few weeks thinking it would be easy and quick to land a few interviews and offers!
Anecdotally, one of these AI generated people made it THROUGH my company’s hiring funnel, apparently HR didn’t check references. Not the worst performer I’ve ever seen, clearly a fake and they got weeded out after a couple of weeks, but it seemed way more like a “get as many remote jobs as possible and if you get fired from one then just keep the process rolling”
Thats sad and hilarious at the same time. Agree, I feel HR KPIs are based on number of applicants Vs quality or finding the right one
Exactly. LLMs make it worse for both the employers and the job seekers. Receiving hundreds of applications per day is extremely difficult to handle for a small company, especially that it's extremely apparent that around 1% reads the job description at all.
> I’ve been job hunting for the past three months, and it’s been painfully repetitive and time-consuming.
With full recognition of the challenge you're having, I'll append that the difficulty level ratchets up from there.
The first thing my kids learned after high school is that ~100% of job portals silently discard applications from 1st-time job applicants.
And from that point, the difficultly levels ratchets upward further for the most minor of criminal records.
Past that there are any number of hidden, algorithmic blackmarks against applicants, from wrong zip codes to sub-stellar credit reports.
Finally, there's one nearly unhireable class, people who interview poorly (ex:freeze up).
With full recognition of the challenge you're having, I'll append that the difficulty level ratchets up from there.
The first thing my kids learned after high school is that ~100% of job portals silently discard applications from 1st-time job applicants.
And from that point, the difficultly levels ratchets upward further for the most minor of criminal records.
Past that there are any number of hidden, algorithmic blackmarks against applicants, from wrong zip codes to sub-stellar credit reports.
Finally, there's one nearly unhireable class, people who interview poorly (ex:freeze up).
What kind of dystopian nightmare do we live in than LinkedIn is now basically required to get a job? We built this nightmare too. Darn it.
Having a project you are trying to turn into a business is often a red flag. A company considering hiring you wonders if you will jump ship as soon as you have the opportunity to go full time on your own project
Thanks, not really trying to do that, more built it out of frustration. I've heard this can be an advantage in an interview to essentially sell 'look what I built in my down time' etc - Who knows.
Totally, it's good to have projects or a portfolio, it's not so much to have marketing & payment pages or look like it's an early startup
it cuts both ways! it is hard to find engineers who are self-motivated to think about product, customers, and conversion. this project gives the candidate strong credibility there.
I have also been burnt with employees leaving to start their own thing, but that's more the exception compared to engineers who don't deliver much value because they're not actually interested in building stuff or only interested in the programming part of building stuff.
I have also been burnt with employees leaving to start their own thing, but that's more the exception compared to engineers who don't deliver much value because they're not actually interested in building stuff or only interested in the programming part of building stuff.
We programmers certainly come in a lot of varieties!
Should this be under Show HN?
https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html
https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html
The title of this post has sparked a good discussion here but it links directly to a job board? I was expecting an article.
Indeed, the title given here doesn't seem to appear on the page at all, which makes this seem like clickbait. The title should be changed to 'Private jobs board' or similar.
But then no one would click on it or upvote it. I assume a lot of people vote and comment without clicking the links on HN. Would have been better as a 'show hn' post - Dallas_b below is the op and also made the site but I don't think they make that very clear in their post.
But then no one would click on it or upvote it. I assume a lot of people vote and comment without clicking the links on HN. Would have been better as a 'show hn' post - Dallas_b below is the op and also made the site but I don't think they make that very clear in their post.
I started the thread - Not click bait at all. If you read my comment you can see what I built etc. But, yes its got some traction, seems people are pretty fired up (me included) about the state of the job market and just how hard it is to land a interview let alone a offer
This really should have been "Show HN: I built a job board", or something along those lines.
It’s a great title and idea for an article.
Maybe start a blog for the board, and create that article?
Signed, Non-expert in content marketing
Maybe start a blog for the board, and create that article?
Signed, Non-expert in content marketing
Good luck finding work - you are clearly talented if you can make a site like this.
Re the titling/clickbait comment - I was referring to the policy here that posts should follow the page title of the site you are linking to: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
But as you can see here in other comments, others note this too.
Re the titling/clickbait comment - I was referring to the policy here that posts should follow the page title of the site you are linking to: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
But as you can see here in other comments, others note this too.
I still have nightmares about going back to the getting my foot in the door stage. I was fresh out of college, and over the next six months I sent hundreds of applications and did tens of interviews.
This was 2006 so the landscape was a little different. I had less direct competition here, but outsourcing was in full swing. I had actually been advised by my high school's consoler not to go into programming because "all the jobs are going to India".
One interview that had gone particularly well was a couple miles from where I now live. Everyone I spoke to seemed very enthusiastic and understood I was right out of college. They never called. Every single time I drive by I tell my wife that I am still waiting for them to call me back. I googled them a few years back and they had gone out of business.
The private college I attended had a department dedicated to job placement, and they would check in with me every couple weeks after I graduated. They were sold as "working directly with employers to place students" but they never had anything like that for me. Honestly, their pushing was a big piece of why I didn't give up. I didn't want to lie to them and I didn't want to let them down.
This was 2006 so the landscape was a little different. I had less direct competition here, but outsourcing was in full swing. I had actually been advised by my high school's consoler not to go into programming because "all the jobs are going to India".
One interview that had gone particularly well was a couple miles from where I now live. Everyone I spoke to seemed very enthusiastic and understood I was right out of college. They never called. Every single time I drive by I tell my wife that I am still waiting for them to call me back. I googled them a few years back and they had gone out of business.
The private college I attended had a department dedicated to job placement, and they would check in with me every couple weeks after I graduated. They were sold as "working directly with employers to place students" but they never had anything like that for me. Honestly, their pushing was a big piece of why I didn't give up. I didn't want to lie to them and I didn't want to let them down.
Crazy, I got hired at the same time directly out of high school from my first job application. Just a casual interview with the startup founder (yes I had a code to show/a portfolio) and that was it. The only job placement help I got was the school counselor threatening that I'd be the "smartest guy in [my] gang" (in all fairness to her, I had been a smart guy in a gang).
People and their life histories are incredibly different!
People and their life histories are incredibly different!
I will check out this tool later, but given the title of the post.
I know this is something that my parents have told me before, but being on the market myself right now. It feels like there is really only so much time I can spend looking for a job. In the first week or 2 I am catching up on all of the jobs already up but after that only so many new jobs are posted.
It feels like I can spend at most an hour or 2 a day actually applying. Sure add in calls/interviews. I say this currently being unemployed. At some point there is nothing else to look at.
I am curious if people are really spending 40+ hours applying to jobs a week? I am finding I am spending most of my time brushing up on tech and working on side projects to keep my skills up.
I know this is something that my parents have told me before, but being on the market myself right now. It feels like there is really only so much time I can spend looking for a job. In the first week or 2 I am catching up on all of the jobs already up but after that only so many new jobs are posted.
It feels like I can spend at most an hour or 2 a day actually applying. Sure add in calls/interviews. I say this currently being unemployed. At some point there is nothing else to look at.
I am curious if people are really spending 40+ hours applying to jobs a week? I am finding I am spending most of my time brushing up on tech and working on side projects to keep my skills up.
There's been a flood of third-party job boards on HN recently. As a job searcher, is there any reason to check any of these job boards in addition to Indeed?
From what I've seen I don't think there is a lot of 'exclusivity' of job posting on one platform or another, perhaps timing of jobs going live...
I suggest setting up the daily alerts on LinkedIn with your role title, doing the same for Indeed as well. I check BuildIn as well every few days just for good measure as they claim to have good hiring rates for tech.
Also see if there is any value in what I've built as well.
I suggest setting up the daily alerts on LinkedIn with your role title, doing the same for Indeed as well. I check BuildIn as well every few days just for good measure as they claim to have good hiring rates for tech.
Also see if there is any value in what I've built as well.
I switched to becoming a data analyst. It's odd, I feel more appreciated too as I'm clearly the most technical person on the team. I help them with certain hard skills and they teach me certain soft skills (and certain domain specific hard skills), all the while I feel more closely connected to society since I'm working in a marketing department.
For me, an ambiverted software engineer in Europe, it's definitely been a good move.
What helped me getting the job is that I did 2 bachelor programs at uni, one in psychology, the other in computer science with a business minor. I feel that data analysis is a mix of psychology and computer science while the marketing department is the business part. The path to becoming a data analyst wasn't clear, I simply applied to job postings that I vibed with, I didn't really care about the role. If the job vacancy itself seemed fun, I applied.
I didn't do that enough, in retrospect I should've done it a lot more. That'd be the advice I give myself: just read a lot of job vacancies and just trust your intuition about which one you vibe with (aka feel good about).
For me, an ambiverted software engineer in Europe, it's definitely been a good move.
What helped me getting the job is that I did 2 bachelor programs at uni, one in psychology, the other in computer science with a business minor. I feel that data analysis is a mix of psychology and computer science while the marketing department is the business part. The path to becoming a data analyst wasn't clear, I simply applied to job postings that I vibed with, I didn't really care about the role. If the job vacancy itself seemed fun, I applied.
I didn't do that enough, in retrospect I should've done it a lot more. That'd be the advice I give myself: just read a lot of job vacancies and just trust your intuition about which one you vibe with (aka feel good about).
FYI: It takes between 3-12 months to find a contract in the UK in the IT space now.
>> FYI: It takes between 3-12 months to find a contract in the UK in the IT space now.
Is that because the market rates have changed? I'm in the US and there is definitely a rate-filltime curve. At a certain rate, filltimes become almost immediate, because it makes sense to just hire for option value. However, at 2021 rates, I can see that filltime would be long. (NOT saying that the market clearing rates are actually living wages for on-site positions, but thats the challenge of an inflationary market with employer advantage.)
Or is there some regulatory barrier (e.g. mandatory notice periods?)
Is that because the market rates have changed? I'm in the US and there is definitely a rate-filltime curve. At a certain rate, filltimes become almost immediate, because it makes sense to just hire for option value. However, at 2021 rates, I can see that filltime would be long. (NOT saying that the market clearing rates are actually living wages for on-site positions, but thats the challenge of an inflationary market with employer advantage.)
Or is there some regulatory barrier (e.g. mandatory notice periods?)
Most contract jobs went to big consultancies who benefitted from a change in legislation related to contracting. That resulted in lowering of contract rates at first, then shipping large numbers of offshore contractors to the UK from non-EU countries, and finally to roles being moved offshore altogether. A lot of UK contract roles are no longer advertised in the UK, but offshore. It's so bad that offshore recruiters are now seeking UK-based contractors for remote EU roles. UK politicians allowed a massive takeover of IT roles by offshore consultancies, recruiters, and contractors.
In the UK. Freelance. A major client put their project on hold and (looking to fill gap) its been a long time since I saw so few opportunities for things I used to find it easy to get work in (e.g. Django, which can be boring but has always been solid bread and butter).
Interestingly, since some of my colleagues are actually looking to jump ships, I lend them some networking. Last week when we were having a coffee, everyone had the same complaint, all the shiny tech are missing, the old tech are now all the rage. Basically last when I checked, anyone with TS(nest), Python(django/flask), Go(Echo) were swimming in offers. Now literally every job is Java(springboot) or Rails(RoR) and every job needs years of experience with every AWS(and some GCP) components.
It is very strange, seems like the market is just suddenly very different. Even senior engineers are not well trusted with adapting new language or tools, while previously I actually onboarded several senior engineers to entirely new stack (e.g. TS -> Go, C++ -> TS, Zig -> Kotlin, frontend engineer with vanilla JS -> Java). The whole market is insane(or entirely irrational).
Reference: Am in one of the EU countries where BMW originates.
It is very strange, seems like the market is just suddenly very different. Even senior engineers are not well trusted with adapting new language or tools, while previously I actually onboarded several senior engineers to entirely new stack (e.g. TS -> Go, C++ -> TS, Zig -> Kotlin, frontend engineer with vanilla JS -> Java). The whole market is insane(or entirely irrational).
Reference: Am in one of the EU countries where BMW originates.
That is interesting.
Is Django shiny? I have been doing it for so long it feels like old tech to me. YMMV I suppose.
Is Django shiny? I have been doing it for so long it feels like old tech to me. YMMV I suppose.
It started in 2019 with the introduction of IR35 legislation. HMRC scared the living daylights out of clients using contractors, they even went after the government contractors. That opened the market to umbrella companies and large consultancies who switched paperwork, lowered rates, then shipped roles offshore.
I did not think of that as a possible cause because I do not do any work that could conceivably fall under IR35. I did find the market pretty healthy until very recently myself.
I do think contractors were to blame too. Using ridiculous schemes (like the borrowing from an offshore company one) was only going to lead to a crackdown on both individuals and in general.
I do think contractors were to blame too. Using ridiculous schemes (like the borrowing from an offshore company one) was only going to lead to a crackdown on both individuals and in general.
These schemes were used by high-profile celebs, not ordinary IT contractors. Most of the cases brought up by HMRC related to contracting are against umbrella companies or people who tried to be "clever" on a much smaller scale, certainly not trying to avoid paying hundreds of thousands or millions of pounds in tax.
LinkedIn has become a waste of time.
What worked better for me was following founders, recruiters, and other key connections. I’d wait for them to post about roles in their network and apply directly. This strategy landed me a few interviews.
To make this process less manual, I built a tracker that highlights posts from people sharing roles with their private networks. It’s free, so feel free to check it out if you’re in the job market.
I’m also testing video-based applications, which let you track who’s viewing your resume and profile. This feature is paid to help cover server cost. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated and hopefully this helps you land a role!