Celebrities say they are being censored by TikTok after speaking out against ICE(pride.com)
pride.com
Celebrities say they are being censored by TikTok after speaking out against ICE
https://www.pride.com/culture/celebrities/tiktok-censoring-megan-stalter-and-finneas
257 comments
Not sure why this is flagged? One of the largest social media platforms in the industry changed ownership, its user base is noticing an unexplained change in functionality? Surely that warrants a discussion among tech people?
these topics are controversial for people who support the current US government, they don't want to see it on their tech-news website (even though it's called hacker news, the spirit of the hacker manifesto is not alive here).
Funnily enough, these flagged topics seem to spark a lot of conversation, and the voices of the government supporters are not heard here...So they just flag and move on, not even trying to defend their position
Funnily enough, these flagged topics seem to spark a lot of conversation, and the voices of the government supporters are not heard here...So they just flag and move on, not even trying to defend their position
It only takes 4 HN users in support of something to silence opposition to it
That's the acutal number, 4 flags from users allowed to flag with a full weight? Where did you learn that?
[deleted]
> the voices of the government supporters are not heard here
This is sad to me because I really want to hear the other perspective, and there is no place that exists (that I know of) for people who disagree with each other to have a real conversation. Nothing left but echo chambers.
But I think HN falls into this trap because the down vote button is used when people disagree with the other person, which imo is a misappropriation and what prevents people from sharing unpopular opinions.
This is sad to me because I really want to hear the other perspective, and there is no place that exists (that I know of) for people who disagree with each other to have a real conversation. Nothing left but echo chambers.
But I think HN falls into this trap because the down vote button is used when people disagree with the other person, which imo is a misappropriation and what prevents people from sharing unpopular opinions.
Respectfully, I think it’s impossible to have “real conversation” on a site where users are (essentially) anonymous, discussions are threaded, and comments are boosted or hidden based on their upvotes. For deep, nuanced discussions where people can actually change their minds, you want a discussion board — but it’s a paradigm that’s difficult to scale, and so isn’t compatible with the modern notion of social media.
I'd replace "real conversation" with "community". And I think communities don't prohibit anonymity. I think the impossibility is really having a community with a very large active userbase. A macro version of Dunbar's number.
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The solution if you really want to hear from the other side is to visit their echo chamber.
But most people who talk politics aren't really interested in changing their perspective. That's why these echo chambers exist.
But most people who talk politics aren't really interested in changing their perspective. That's why these echo chambers exist.
> The solution if you really want to hear from the other side is to visit their echo chamber.
That's not a solution at all, the point isn't to hear unopposed, highly selective talking points, we know all that already, the media is full of it. The point is to see them defend their positions against fairly simple criticism which they block and the mainstream media doesn't address.
That's not a solution at all, the point isn't to hear unopposed, highly selective talking points, we know all that already, the media is full of it. The point is to see them defend their positions against fairly simple criticism which they block and the mainstream media doesn't address.
Patriots.win if you want to see what they really think
This will sound crazy but this is why I still use 4chan. Everyone is anonymous, there is no voting, and the only moderation is to remove illegal things or flagrant rule breaking. It's 99% dogshit (and worse), but if you go into it knowing that, you can find some good stuff sometimes. Not good as in morally good, just sometimes someone will post a link to a video or an article that will actually make me think.
Here, and on reddit, and anywhere with voting or people caring about the number next to their username, it's the most popular opinions at the top and everything else at the bottom or flagged. I genuinely don't understand what people get out of that.
And I guess I should specify that this is also why political topics get flagged. Sure, it probably has a lot to do with people flagging stuff that goes against their beliefs. But I also think that political threads here offer absolutely nothing aside from reaffirming existing beliefs. No one is trying to change anyone's minds, everyone is just yelling at each other. Threads about actual tech stuff can be very interesting and I do learn things from them sometimes. But political threads here are worthless.
edit: I do not mean /pol/, no one should ever go there
Here, and on reddit, and anywhere with voting or people caring about the number next to their username, it's the most popular opinions at the top and everything else at the bottom or flagged. I genuinely don't understand what people get out of that.
And I guess I should specify that this is also why political topics get flagged. Sure, it probably has a lot to do with people flagging stuff that goes against their beliefs. But I also think that political threads here offer absolutely nothing aside from reaffirming existing beliefs. No one is trying to change anyone's minds, everyone is just yelling at each other. Threads about actual tech stuff can be very interesting and I do learn things from them sometimes. But political threads here are worthless.
edit: I do not mean /pol/, no one should ever go there
> This will sound crazy but this is why I still use 4chan. Everyone is anonymous, there is no voting, and the only moderation is to remove illegal things or flagrant rule breaking.
What you see is a mirage.
The problem with 4chan is that the loudest voices are the ones that have no lives, and can flood the board with their bullshit. You could be having a conversation with someone in one thread, meanwhile they're busy posting about the same damn thing in 3-4 other threads at the same time.
And that's assuming the person on the other end is real. These days, there are bot armies of paid shills or AI to worry about, flooding the zone with their narrative to the point where your voice gets drowned out.
You cannot have a decent social space without some form of active moderation and some protection against sockpuppeting. Not every place with both of those gets it right, but without both you're guaranteed to fail, and 4chan has neither.
What you see is a mirage.
The problem with 4chan is that the loudest voices are the ones that have no lives, and can flood the board with their bullshit. You could be having a conversation with someone in one thread, meanwhile they're busy posting about the same damn thing in 3-4 other threads at the same time.
And that's assuming the person on the other end is real. These days, there are bot armies of paid shills or AI to worry about, flooding the zone with their narrative to the point where your voice gets drowned out.
You cannot have a decent social space without some form of active moderation and some protection against sockpuppeting. Not every place with both of those gets it right, but without both you're guaranteed to fail, and 4chan has neither.
it would be interesting to see up and down levels rather than just a net effect. That lets a user see this is 50/50 split issue or like 70/30 split maybe it has more substance
I think the downvote on comments is; it's the flagging that's the problem because it essentially hides the post from the HN community (which is why I now always go to /active instead of the home page).
...replying to my self to point out that ironically my post is being downvoted.
I guess wanting to hear the other side's perspective is not looked upon favorably here, just like everywhere else.
I guess wanting to hear the other side's perspective is not looked upon favorably here, just like everywhere else.
Be careful though. It's easy to think you know why you are being downvoted (BTW, it looks like the pendulum has swung the other way—you don't look downvoted to me).
When you have a handful of sentences in your post, it may well be the one you're not expecting that triggered the downvotes.
When you have a handful of sentences in your post, it may well be the one you're not expecting that triggered the downvotes.
> voices of the government supporters are not heard here...So they just flag and move on, not even trying to defend their position
Why are you're assuming flagging indicates support of the government?
Maybe they're flagging because it's a topic that will generate much more heat than light. It doesn't have to be deeper than that.
Why are you're assuming flagging indicates support of the government?
Maybe they're flagging because it's a topic that will generate much more heat than light. It doesn't have to be deeper than that.
There's a clear pattern of stories that paint oligarchs in a bad light being flagged. Even simple tech-based articles about Tesla get flagged if they highlight a negative about the company or cars.
> not even trying to defend their position
Hard to do when your position is essentially indefensible.
Hard to do when your position is essentially indefensible.
It is defensible.
First, there is no evidence that they were censored because of keywords. Crazily enough, they may have been censored by god (or simply datacenter issues).
Second, if there were such censorship features, then it shows that the US was right to buy TikTok. Imagine if National Socialists or those who are against liberty and justice had access to such features.
Third, we are in a time of great danger, thus requiring great actions. What is the danger? It cannot be explained. What is the solution? To re-use the past. In early 1000s, the Germans were both holy and roman and justly created living space in the East. Hundreds of years later, we started Manifest Destiny. Similar to 南进 of the Vietnamese, we should recognize the job has not been finished. This requires rewriting history. While China existed for 5000 years, the US has existed for 6000. The Jewish, Christian, and American spirits merged together, and people of 100s of different dialects were pulled into the area, and the wave of freedom moved back abroad. This was the formation of the American language, a true melting pot. While many Americans have genetic ties to Europe, they have one difference, a spirit that is free and mobile. Unlike the Europeans who stay in one place and look down at the wandering Roma, the Americans are inherently mobile, experiencing new ways at life. This is the Spirit and what allows for Americans to manifest the destiny of the world from East to West.
First, there is no evidence that they were censored because of keywords. Crazily enough, they may have been censored by god (or simply datacenter issues).
Second, if there were such censorship features, then it shows that the US was right to buy TikTok. Imagine if National Socialists or those who are against liberty and justice had access to such features.
Third, we are in a time of great danger, thus requiring great actions. What is the danger? It cannot be explained. What is the solution? To re-use the past. In early 1000s, the Germans were both holy and roman and justly created living space in the East. Hundreds of years later, we started Manifest Destiny. Similar to 南进 of the Vietnamese, we should recognize the job has not been finished. This requires rewriting history. While China existed for 5000 years, the US has existed for 6000. The Jewish, Christian, and American spirits merged together, and people of 100s of different dialects were pulled into the area, and the wave of freedom moved back abroad. This was the formation of the American language, a true melting pot. While many Americans have genetic ties to Europe, they have one difference, a spirit that is free and mobile. Unlike the Europeans who stay in one place and look down at the wandering Roma, the Americans are inherently mobile, experiencing new ways at life. This is the Spirit and what allows for Americans to manifest the destiny of the world from East to West.
Most original "hacker" (1980s, 1990s) and open source people are quietly right wing anyway.
Maybe, but the fundamental ideas of sharing knowledge/software and preventing corporate control of technology is far more left wing than right wing.
Left vs right distinction is not accurate nor does help us to reflect the reality of our current world any more.
Fascism and authoritarianism can come in both left, right, color, sizes, sex and age.
Fascism and authoritarianism can come in both left, right, color, sizes, sex and age.
like who?
"Cool? It's commie bullshit." -Hackers.
My problem with these type of posts in HN is that the discussion doesn't offer ANYTHING constructive.
I comment a lot about these matters on Reddit, and I'm very much against all that's happening in the USA.
But the reality is that the discourse i see here in these types of political posts is the same as on Reddit and the like. (Whether For or against )
It would be great if somehow the discussion added something different. Like the post about Iran censorship and the suggestions on technology to bypass it (I learned about Snowflake) .
But the problem with US related politics is that HN people are very emotionally invested (being Americans most of them) and that makes the discussion become very visceral.
I comment a lot about these matters on Reddit, and I'm very much against all that's happening in the USA.
But the reality is that the discourse i see here in these types of political posts is the same as on Reddit and the like. (Whether For or against )
It would be great if somehow the discussion added something different. Like the post about Iran censorship and the suggestions on technology to bypass it (I learned about Snowflake) .
But the problem with US related politics is that HN people are very emotionally invested (being Americans most of them) and that makes the discussion become very visceral.
> My problem with these type of posts in HN is that the discussion doesn't offer ANYTHING constructive.
They offer a chance for awareness, which is literally step one. Americans are some of the most propagandized people on Earth, and most don't even know it.
It's crucial that the tech community develops more awareness around censorship - no small share of the responsibility is with us.
Censoring stories about censorship, on a premier tech community and investment forum, just because the discussion gets 'visceral' is simply capitulation to any entity willing to try and make a discussion toxic. We need to do a lot better than that.
They offer a chance for awareness, which is literally step one. Americans are some of the most propagandized people on Earth, and most don't even know it.
It's crucial that the tech community develops more awareness around censorship - no small share of the responsibility is with us.
Censoring stories about censorship, on a premier tech community and investment forum, just because the discussion gets 'visceral' is simply capitulation to any entity willing to try and make a discussion toxic. We need to do a lot better than that.
I was talking to my uncle last September who is a chaplain in the US Army, and I was shocked by the disparity between what he understood was going on in the US and what I understood. That's not to say that I'm not influenced in certain ways either, but it really cemented my understanding that people in the US (and here in Canada and I'm sure other countries too) are operating within two entirely different realities.
He's not even what I would call MAGA, but it still seemed like a gulf that is impossible to bridge.
He's not even what I would call MAGA, but it still seemed like a gulf that is impossible to bridge.
> people in the US (and here in Canada and I'm sure other countries too) are operating within two entirely different realities
They're not entirely different though. The similarities are critical to understand; the parts where both parties differ wildly from reality in the exact same way.
For example: 98.15% of 2024 voters didn't hold openly arming genocide as a red line for their vote. I don't believe you can blame the 2 party system for that, not entirely - every adult human has an extremely clear moral and legal duty not to be voting for anyone arming genocide.
Speaking to Americans about this will furnish extremely consistent and predictable responses; none of which hold the smallest amount of weight. There is no rationale for genocide, ever. There is never a good reason to enable the mass slaughter of children, the bombing of an entire healthcare system, the mass targeting of journalists and their families, the poisoning of wells, etc etc etc.
Yet no matter how predictable the responses, there's still no getting through. We all know how delusional the MAGA crowd can be - but Biden repeated lies about 40 beheaded babies long after they were debunked to virtually zero pushback. That lie, and the one about mass rape, was used to 'justify' genocide. Millions of people still believe it. No one was ever held responsible for those lies, not so much as a slap on the wrist.
Biden vetoed 4 UN ceasefires against a genocide that had been already called out by virtually every relevant human rights org. And even after those vetoes, people like AOC - the supposed left wing of the supposed left wing party - told us he was "working tirelessly for a ceasefire". The entire political and media class chose to overlook this, and instead get worked up about, Idk, the 8 trans people competing in professional sports instead.
A party that can inspire such loyalty that it's members overlook participation in genocide can only be described as a cult. The blue cultists says the red cult are in a cult, and the red cultists say the blue cultists are in a cult.
And then there's the other third of the voting population - the faction who intensely dislike both parties, but can't be bothered to vote for a third option even against the most documented genocide in history. Absolutely astounding propaganda work.
And that's just regular people. Imagine how much worse it is for people in the military, where only Murdoch media is permitted and you can get jailed for reading things like Wikileaks. Imagine growing up in a 'privileged' elite bubble, where poverty is "necessary" and "deserved", where every billionaire "earned" their wealth, where some families with generational wealth are simply genetically "superior". Ugh.
So yes, many people live in wildly different realities - but the parts where the blue cult and the red cult have the exact same opinions, and so do even the "independents" (again, things like the 'necessity' of tolerating genocide from your leaders, or the socialist evils of feeding hungry children)... Wow. Truly, there is a vast, almost unimaginable gulf between America and the rest of the world.
... And they think they're free. They think the US is hated for its freedoms. It's fascinating, and terrifying - and the tech community has played no small part in every aspect of things getting this way, for decades.
They're not entirely different though. The similarities are critical to understand; the parts where both parties differ wildly from reality in the exact same way.
For example: 98.15% of 2024 voters didn't hold openly arming genocide as a red line for their vote. I don't believe you can blame the 2 party system for that, not entirely - every adult human has an extremely clear moral and legal duty not to be voting for anyone arming genocide.
Speaking to Americans about this will furnish extremely consistent and predictable responses; none of which hold the smallest amount of weight. There is no rationale for genocide, ever. There is never a good reason to enable the mass slaughter of children, the bombing of an entire healthcare system, the mass targeting of journalists and their families, the poisoning of wells, etc etc etc.
Yet no matter how predictable the responses, there's still no getting through. We all know how delusional the MAGA crowd can be - but Biden repeated lies about 40 beheaded babies long after they were debunked to virtually zero pushback. That lie, and the one about mass rape, was used to 'justify' genocide. Millions of people still believe it. No one was ever held responsible for those lies, not so much as a slap on the wrist.
Biden vetoed 4 UN ceasefires against a genocide that had been already called out by virtually every relevant human rights org. And even after those vetoes, people like AOC - the supposed left wing of the supposed left wing party - told us he was "working tirelessly for a ceasefire". The entire political and media class chose to overlook this, and instead get worked up about, Idk, the 8 trans people competing in professional sports instead.
A party that can inspire such loyalty that it's members overlook participation in genocide can only be described as a cult. The blue cultists says the red cult are in a cult, and the red cultists say the blue cultists are in a cult.
And then there's the other third of the voting population - the faction who intensely dislike both parties, but can't be bothered to vote for a third option even against the most documented genocide in history. Absolutely astounding propaganda work.
And that's just regular people. Imagine how much worse it is for people in the military, where only Murdoch media is permitted and you can get jailed for reading things like Wikileaks. Imagine growing up in a 'privileged' elite bubble, where poverty is "necessary" and "deserved", where every billionaire "earned" their wealth, where some families with generational wealth are simply genetically "superior". Ugh.
So yes, many people live in wildly different realities - but the parts where the blue cult and the red cult have the exact same opinions, and so do even the "independents" (again, things like the 'necessity' of tolerating genocide from your leaders, or the socialist evils of feeding hungry children)... Wow. Truly, there is a vast, almost unimaginable gulf between America and the rest of the world.
... And they think they're free. They think the US is hated for its freedoms. It's fascinating, and terrifying - and the tech community has played no small part in every aspect of things getting this way, for decades.
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I don't go to Reddit or other forums that discuss politics. HN is the only forum I visit, and it's important to be aware, and talk about, these issues that involve large tech companies but also have to do with politics, because of the widespread implications. The comments are sometimes informative of what similar things may be happening elsewhere, or technical-oriented perspectives on the matter, which aren't going to come up in a NYT or similar article.
There is another post about this exact topic on the front page:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46779809
So I can only assume this one is flagged because the source is pride.com
Make of that what you will.
So I can only assume this one is flagged because the source is pride.com
Make of that what you will.
[deleted]
your link was posted a few hours after this post was flagged
There is a certain proto-fascist contingent here that sees it to their duty to stifle all discussion critical of the regime.
And there are people who own and run this website with extremely aligned interests.
Altman and Thiel have long had YC connections (obv); and for the last year or so Garry Tan and PG have been full-throatedly cheerleading Musk and DOGE on their Twitter pages.
Then there's the many connections between YC and the 'defense' industry; you know, the one making billions of dollars from wars that people speak out about on social media.
It's very easy to explain why posts get flagged here. It's a lot harder to digest why they don't get unflagged. Especially when all the posts about it are quickly removed, every single one.
Altman and Thiel have long had YC connections (obv); and for the last year or so Garry Tan and PG have been full-throatedly cheerleading Musk and DOGE on their Twitter pages.
Then there's the many connections between YC and the 'defense' industry; you know, the one making billions of dollars from wars that people speak out about on social media.
It's very easy to explain why posts get flagged here. It's a lot harder to digest why they don't get unflagged. Especially when all the posts about it are quickly removed, every single one.
Cue the usual dang copypasta how there is no evidence of flag brigading, and how they "moderate less", and so on.
To be fair, dang's position has consistently been (and he posted as such yesterday[1]) that the flag brigading comes from two distinct groups: 1. Users who don't want to see "politics" and 2. Users who are partisan and want to hide politics they don't like.
My view is that these are essentially the same group. "Not wanting to see politics" is itself just a partisan view in favor of whatever the Status Quo currently is. So if you're going through and flagging articles describing wrongdoing or calling for change, because they are "political," then you're just operating in the service of whoever is currently in power.
1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46771917
My view is that these are essentially the same group. "Not wanting to see politics" is itself just a partisan view in favor of whatever the Status Quo currently is. So if you're going through and flagging articles describing wrongdoing or calling for change, because they are "political," then you're just operating in the service of whoever is currently in power.
1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46771917
> My view is that these are essentially the same group. "Not wanting to see politics" is itself just a partisan view in favor of whatever the Status Quo currently is. So if you're going through and flagging articles describing wrongdoing or calling for change, because they are "political," then you're just operating in the service of whoever is currently in power.
But some people do that regardless who is currently in power, what do you call that? I'd call that "not wanting to see politics" and not being partisan.
But some people do that regardless who is currently in power, what do you call that? I'd call that "not wanting to see politics" and not being partisan.
Agreed.
Given the consistency and speed of flags though, I don't think #2 is just "organic" flagging.
Given the consistency and speed of flags though, I don't think #2 is just "organic" flagging.
> Given the consistency and speed of flags though, I don't think #2 is just "organic" flagging.
Thousands of people view these very quickly once they hit the frontpage, its enough 0.1% of those are willing to flag to see consistent near instant flagging.
Thousands of people view these very quickly once they hit the frontpage, its enough 0.1% of those are willing to flag to see consistent near instant flagging.
Yep.
Followed by the usual sycophantic support: "You're doing a great job dang, we all love you so don't worry about these cranks", and "Well I'VE never noticed any censorship so it obviously doesn't exist" (Yeah dude that's how it works lol).
Followed by the usual sycophantic support: "You're doing a great job dang, we all love you so don't worry about these cranks", and "Well I'VE never noticed any censorship so it obviously doesn't exist" (Yeah dude that's how it works lol).
Can’t make a man understand something when his paycheck depends on him not understanding it.
Dan sold out his moral compass.
Dan sold out his moral compass.
By now it’s confirmed full-blown fascism. Nothing proto about it.
It's flagged because so much of the HN userbase are aligned with the SV oligarchs that took over TikTok-US, and don't want them criticized in public.
fascists are going to fascist. Dang et al will just look away and say. "we don't have any power over what our users do. Email us to let us know." Because apparently the mods don't visit their own website? They'll just keep their heads buried in the sand. Everything is fine as long as that sweet ycombinator check keeps getting cashed.
Minihands's fans tend to flag anything unfavourable to Dear Leader.
This is quite out of character for a lawn mower; lawn mowers shouldn't care.
for those curious about the lawn mower: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zRN7XLCRhc&t=2312s
More context: the video speaks about Oracle and TikTok has been bought by an investor group headed by Oracle's Larry Ellison (which the article also references).
Is the lawn mower already in control of TikTok?
As of a few days ago, yes: https://newsroom.tiktok.com/announcement-from-the-new-tiktok...
Only TikTok in the U.S., though; everywhere else it's Bytedance still.
Only TikTok in the U.S., though; everywhere else it's Bytedance still.
I guess ICE's videos are going to be much harder to find from now on.
Not if censoring was part of the deal, then its just a payment.
it does not care. it just want to make more money.
Is the country falling apart? So many extreme events is happening over there.
Makes sense since Oracle now has complete control of it.
Celebrities need to stop giving their sht to these SM companies and used Federated social media. So they can own their product and not have to worry about being censored for being anti-government.
Which is hilarious sentence now because this government so pro free speech!!! sarcasm*
But seriously this is something that if my main gig was to create music or some art form, I wouldn't want to be on a corp run platform. I would want to own it myself and the all that data.
Which is hilarious sentence now because this government so pro free speech!!! sarcasm*
But seriously this is something that if my main gig was to create music or some art form, I wouldn't want to be on a corp run platform. I would want to own it myself and the all that data.
You expect Billie Eilish fans to be on Mastodon?
Celebrities should consider maybe not using social media things controlled by the regime? Like, other social media is available.
This specific social media was not controlled by the regime, and they are taking every step necessary to correct that.
They will follow wherever the network effect goes, the same way that more influencers are posting to Bluesky in addition to Twitter now, and some of them are making the move entirely.
They're celebrities. The network will follow where they go.
> Like, other social media is available.
Social media that actually have a large audience and that cannot be easily pressured by the US government?
Social media that actually have a large audience and that cannot be easily pressured by the US government?
This isn't very compelling. It's 2 anecdotes and a pretty damning final paragraph. Is there any more reliable data?
Data? No. None of these companies are making their data freely available for analysis or being transparent about how their algorithms work. People have complained for a while that Twitter / X seems to suppress the visibility and reach of profiles or posts that disagree with Musk’s views. The recent open sourcing of their algorithm is meaningless since there’s no evidence of what they actually have in production or what data / configuration is used with it.
So the best we can do is anecdotal examples. And it’s also obvious that Trump avoided banning TikTok for months, illegally, because he wanted to have another platform serve as a mouthpiece. He now has that by forcing a sale of TikTok to his friend, Larry Ellison.
So the best we can do is anecdotal examples. And it’s also obvious that Trump avoided banning TikTok for months, illegally, because he wanted to have another platform serve as a mouthpiece. He now has that by forcing a sale of TikTok to his friend, Larry Ellison.
The fact that social media companies aren't mandated by law to provide transparency into reach / visibility is a travesty.
It should be fucking table stakes for being able to run a business with that much power and influence.
It should be fucking table stakes for being able to run a business with that much power and influence.
I believe the headline is missing a “mistakenly”. Very strange article given the headline.
Anecdata is strong, I have multiple cases myself just from browsing this morning.
But I'm leaning towards incompetence. Some US generated stuff was most likely moved to Oracle shitboxes, causing encoding issues and unreliable streaming.
...or it's malice and they're scanning the data and intentionally throttling traffic for unwanted content.
But I'm leaning towards incompetence. Some US generated stuff was most likely moved to Oracle shitboxes, causing encoding issues and unreliable streaming.
...or it's malice and they're scanning the data and intentionally throttling traffic for unwanted content.
Would the incompetence include deleting messages that used the word "Epstein"?
https://i.redd.it/2stz13v1bsfg1.jpeg
There are quite a few reports on Reddit of users having any dm using that word being deleted.
https://old.reddit.com/r/TikTok/comments/1qnxxgi/were_being_...
https://i.redd.it/2stz13v1bsfg1.jpeg
There are quite a few reports on Reddit of users having any dm using that word being deleted.
https://old.reddit.com/r/TikTok/comments/1qnxxgi/were_being_...
Well, shit. It really was malice, they're just trying to claim incompetence: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46779809
That’s not a very convincing article. One person leaving TikTok claiming she was silenced, and another where a claim of silencing is made but, within 24 hours, the ‘silenced’ video "has more than 220,000 views and over 70,000 likes”. Perhaps there is some silencing going on, but it doesn’t appear that there is much evidence of it in this particular article.
I have a bit of experience with video platforms.
It’s really hard to say which video will work or not. What people react to and what not.
All I’m saying is that this could also potentially be explained by "The Algorithm" per se.
It’s really hard to say which video will work or not. What people react to and what not.
All I’m saying is that this could also potentially be explained by "The Algorithm" per se.
There’s lots of myths in social media, some weeks ago I kept seeing people on TikTok claiming that if you put some keyword in you profile(I think it was “Oracle”) or some of your post you will start seeing the protest again because the algorithm will “reset”. I assumed that someone was trying to farm accounts interested in politics or maybe indeed the algorithm steers by the introduction of the new for the account word.
Anyway, considering that the purchase of the American TikTok was done with a purpose and there is documented collusion between the involved tech Billionaires and the political class behind the street executions in American cities that drive those protests, I wouldn’t be surprised that they are actually throttling this time.
Anyway, considering that the purchase of the American TikTok was done with a purpose and there is documented collusion between the involved tech Billionaires and the political class behind the street executions in American cities that drive those protests, I wouldn’t be surprised that they are actually throttling this time.
Support for ICE is in minority (although a large one). I don't think algorithm would suppress negative opinions on it, especially among viewership of celebrities that don't appeal to the right side of political spectrum.
Well, you're wrong. This article has more info but is login- or paywalled.
https://www.theverge.com/news/867625/tiktok-down-weekend-bro...
https://www.theverge.com/news/867625/tiktok-down-weekend-bro...
I didn't say it's the effect of the censorship. I just said it's unlikely to be the effect of normal operation of their algorithm. If the actual explanation was the accidental outage then I was right.
You should qualify your statement with "amongst the few people I talk to and the narrow spectrum of media I consume."
Also, do you mean minority of the total US population or minority of the voting population?
For one reference point I fully support ICE. And I think it's wild you have local and state politicians encouraging actions against federal agents who are enforcing federal law.
Also, do you mean minority of the total US population or minority of the voting population?
For one reference point I fully support ICE. And I think it's wild you have local and state politicians encouraging actions against federal agents who are enforcing federal law.
More Americans support than oppose abolishing ICE.
The Gestapo, too, was federal agents enforcing federal law.
https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/53939-more-americ...
The Gestapo, too, was federal agents enforcing federal law.
https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/53939-more-americ...
In this case can you honestly say federal law is wrong?
Polling seems to suggest you're wrong.
The whole point of the forced sale of TikTok was for the American-Israeli hegemony to exert control over the narrative of the platform. And now it is doing exactly that. Color me surprised.
No no no no no, it was because TikTok was owned by the CCP and was literally and directly controlling the minds of millions of people and indoctrinating them with communist propaganda, turning them against the United States.
You may have gone onto the platform and seen nothing but the same sort of vapid memes as anywhere else, but you see that's just how insidious and clever those Chinese are.
We're not exerting control over the narrative, we're protecting the truth from foreign influence.
There is no genocide in ba sing se.
You may have gone onto the platform and seen nothing but the same sort of vapid memes as anywhere else, but you see that's just how insidious and clever those Chinese are.
We're not exerting control over the narrative, we're protecting the truth from foreign influence.
There is no genocide in ba sing se.
This is so American.
They raise alarms because they have low TikTok view counters. But mass killings of Iranian protesters is Iran's own business.
They raise alarms because they have low TikTok view counters. But mass killings of Iranian protesters is Iran's own business.
> according to TechCrunch, this language has been included in the privacy policy since Aug. 2024, and wasn’t changed in response to the Trump administration’s latest escalation of immigration enforcement, and is “primarily there to comply with state privacy laws like California’s Consumer Privacy Act.”
This is the problem with any kind of censoring media. The initial intentions of those policies might have been good, but these kind of policies can so easily be abused for malign intentions.
This is the problem with any kind of censoring media. The initial intentions of those policies might have been good, but these kind of policies can so easily be abused for malign intentions.
In transparency will do this.
No one can know what TikTok censors or penalizes in its algorithms. All other social media platforms are equally intransparent, what is new is that TikTok is not American.
No one can know what TikTok censors or penalizes in its algorithms. All other social media platforms are equally intransparent, what is new is that TikTok is not American.
TikTok is now owned by an American company. As soon as that change happened, the censorship began.
https://www.theverge.com/news/867625/tiktok-down-weekend-bro...
https://www.theverge.com/news/867625/tiktok-down-weekend-bro...
In this particular case the censoring of anti-ICE post is most likely because TikTok is getting American (read: Trump allied) handlers.
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/cp374n3ggngt
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/cp374n3ggngt
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Get used to it. Both TikTok and X(twitter) have been used and will be used to manipulate the public opinion in favour of Trump. I'm aware that I can't prove it; however, this explains how Trump won, and how he will win again - manipulating the zombies.
There are studies on it but the conclusions are pretty thin right now because data collection is hard, but I'd say youre right
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/00104140241306955
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/00104140241306955
hasn't this been pretty clear since Cambridge Analytica?
I'd agree clear, verifiable much harder. As long as the issue remains hard to prove Im not sure what we can do to fix it.
Seems like there's a pattern:
https://www.npr.org/2026/01/27/nx-s1-5689104/tiktok-epstein-...
https://www.npr.org/2026/01/27/nx-s1-5689104/tiktok-epstein-...
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Current administration have plenty of time, 3 years to be exact, to turn USA into another Iran.
it's almost like it's better to have an external owner of social media companies
pretty impressive how quickly Ellisons managed to make this whole situation suck and reek badly. they'll turn down the heat & stuff the frog back in the pot, then crank the heat up a bit slower this time, but there is just going to be such endless utterly preposterous censorship and algorithmic biasing for the right wing & ultra capitalist agenda, on and on now.
incredible beyond words that this was a unanimous decision by the supreme court. letting the us government set up whatever arraigned marriage it felt like for buying a social network is some wild meddling with businesses. and here we are, with the ultra capitalists doing exactly what they want to with one of the most popular social networks.
excellent write up for this absolute madness of a court decision, TikTok v. Garland and the First Amendment Anticanon by Evelyn Douek, https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=6118706
incredible beyond words that this was a unanimous decision by the supreme court. letting the us government set up whatever arraigned marriage it felt like for buying a social network is some wild meddling with businesses. and here we are, with the ultra capitalists doing exactly what they want to with one of the most popular social networks.
excellent write up for this absolute madness of a court decision, TikTok v. Garland and the First Amendment Anticanon by Evelyn Douek, https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=6118706
Capitalism is when bad things happen. And the more badder they are the more capitalism it is!
This was the logic the West used throughout the life of the Soviet Union but for [Cc]ommunism.
Arguably people still do this with 'socialism'. Calling everything communism is now a bit _too_ cliche.
No, calling things/people/ideas communist is still 100% in play by the Republican party. McCarthy-ism is in full swing, and they've even added "antisemite" as another hot label they can throw on people to tarnish them. They have called the people protesting "raging commies" and other, similar phrases. Trump has called judges that act against him communist as well [1]
[1] https://www.milwaukeeindependent.com/featured/calling-commun...
[1] https://www.milwaukeeindependent.com/featured/calling-commun...
I don't think the parent said it was. This is clearly closer to mercantilism, given the degree of government involvement.
They've claimed this is the result of or at the behest of 'ultra capitalism'. I don't even mind hyperbole--call it fascism if you want--but at least use the dimensionally-correct terms. This is like when people call everything 'neoliberal'.
Isn't neoliberal just Friedman and the Chicago boyz' liberalism? So policies enacted by Reagan, Pinochet and Thatchers?
Sort of and to varying degrees. Neoliberal is a funny one because it's used as a thoughtless pejorative by both the left and right.
I've heard people say housing policy has failed because it's too neoliberal meaning too free market, and then other people say it's failed because it's too neoliberal i.e. too much government intervention.
Neoliberalism is basically just markets-by-default and evidence-based alternatives when they fail.
I've heard people say housing policy has failed because it's too neoliberal meaning too free market, and then other people say it's failed because it's too neoliberal i.e. too much government intervention.
Neoliberalism is basically just markets-by-default and evidence-based alternatives when they fail.
> Neoliberalism is basically just markets-by-default and evidence-based alternatives when they fail.
That's not though. I think the name is from the 'New classical school', oppose Keynesian economics. I think the meaning drifted to mean supply-side economics (direct inheritor from the Chicago school and the new classical school).
Neoliberalism can't be 'evidence-based' when it rejects basic observation (like those from MMT. You can reject MMT 'solutions', that's fine, I do too. Don't reject evidence though).
That's not though. I think the name is from the 'New classical school', oppose Keynesian economics. I think the meaning drifted to mean supply-side economics (direct inheritor from the Chicago school and the new classical school).
Neoliberalism can't be 'evidence-based' when it rejects basic observation (like those from MMT. You can reject MMT 'solutions', that's fine, I do too. Don't reject evidence though).
Let's be honest, even being an MM theorist is a form of self selection that enables another kind of discussion. Neoliberal disagreement with MMT is categorically different from e.g. its disagreements with neocons or socdems in general. The latter are often just moral beliefs or running with first principles in a way that niche economic frameworks are not.
I think your criticism of it as not being 'evidence based' because it 'rejects basic observation' is emotive but fundamentally it's still a technical criticism, not a moral one. Neocon criticisms of neoliberalism (even if they misidentify what that means) revolve around the decay of traditional values, for example. Socdems around inequality (which to them is ipso facto bad).
I think your criticism of it as not being 'evidence based' because it 'rejects basic observation' is emotive but fundamentally it's still a technical criticism, not a moral one. Neocon criticisms of neoliberalism (even if they misidentify what that means) revolve around the decay of traditional values, for example. Socdems around inequality (which to them is ipso facto bad).
I think i disagree? Socdems are mostly weird keynesians, and think of the economy from the demand side. For them, inequality is fundamentally bad because it reduce aggregate demand. You know the legend about Ford paying its employee more so they could afford cars (it was not, competent auto/metallurgy workers were rare and took time to train, he paid them more because he had to to keep them working for him)? That's basically a socdem wet dream (that's why some socdems accepted trickle-down economics like neolibs (i.e without any shred of evidence), because it conform with the theory).
But that's true that a lot of socdems don't really understand economic theory and so some criticism seems empty, because they repeat a criticism they did not understood. And that's ok, because macroeconomics is the less scientific of all social science field (for good reason), and who would want to bother with it (unless you're an idiot who took that in college because it seemed to pair well with math :/)
But that's true that a lot of socdems don't really understand economic theory and so some criticism seems empty, because they repeat a criticism they did not understood. And that's ok, because macroeconomics is the less scientific of all social science field (for good reason), and who would want to bother with it (unless you're an idiot who took that in college because it seemed to pair well with math :/)
I recently saw an interesting explanation. The point was, that capitalism is not (just) an economical system. It's a system of power in which capital can (and almost always does) overrule everything else. If you take this stance, capitalism is to blame for all the good and bad things that happen in the capitalist country. Democracy is just the way how capital rules.
> It's a system of power in which capital can (and almost always does) overrule everything else. ... Democracy is just the way how capital rules.
That’s a contradiction.
That’s a contradiction.
“It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see..."
"You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?"
"No," said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, "nothing so simple. Nothing anything like so straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."
"Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."
"I did," said Ford. "It is."
"So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't people get rid of the lizards?"
"It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want."
"You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"
"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."
"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"
"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in. Got any gin?"
- Douglas Adams, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
"You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?"
"No," said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, "nothing so simple. Nothing anything like so straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."
"Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."
"I did," said Ford. "It is."
"So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't people get rid of the lizards?"
"It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want."
"You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"
"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."
"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"
"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in. Got any gin?"
- Douglas Adams, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
Perfect drivel.
Depends on how you understand democracy.
It's a contradiction only if you understand democracy as a theoretical ideal. Practical democracies, as implemented in western countries, in recent decades proven themselves to be completely controllable by capital, both the democratic elites and democratic masses.
I think we should rather go with practical outcome not the stated theoretical ideas. It's also a good way of evaluating communism and probably other systems.
It's a contradiction only if you understand democracy as a theoretical ideal. Practical democracies, as implemented in western countries, in recent decades proven themselves to be completely controllable by capital, both the democratic elites and democratic masses.
I think we should rather go with practical outcome not the stated theoretical ideas. It's also a good way of evaluating communism and probably other systems.
I see we are going with the definition of democracy where it is one in the headlines and stops being one if you go into the text or interrogate it.
Aren't all country-scale (economic, governance, etc.) systems also 'systems of power'? It's not like the most powerful people of the USSR didn't leverage that system.
Whatever the rules are, people end up adapting to and gaming them to entrench and grow their own position, typically at the expense of everyone else.
Whatever the rules are, people end up adapting to and gaming them to entrench and grow their own position, typically at the expense of everyone else.
I’m reading “ultra-capitalists” here as “those that control an extreme proportion of capital” rather than “those who believe really strongly in capitalism as a system”, though tbf that venn diagram may well be a donut…
Technically, Venn Diagrams don't show _degree_ of overlap :)
Although re your actual point: the current admin only gifts things like this to a chosen few; a small subset of those with extreme capital. So it seems much more appropriate to call it cronyism, or some such thing, rather than capitalism in the sense of merely controlling capital.
Although re your actual point: the current admin only gifts things like this to a chosen few; a small subset of those with extreme capital. So it seems much more appropriate to call it cronyism, or some such thing, rather than capitalism in the sense of merely controlling capital.
Crony capitalism is a well-established term for a reason.
Right, to distinguish it from regular capitalism. Specifically to denote it as not-really-capitalism. _Crony_ is really the operative term.
Wait until you try to criticise Israel.
Happening because TikTok is under US laws. Use https://www.douyin.com/ then.
And if they wouldn’t, they would be blocked or prevented of doing business in the US.
And if they wouldn’t, they would be blocked or prevented of doing business in the US.
US laws, hmm.
Wasn't there something about an amendment to their constitution? I believe it might've even been the first? Something about freedom of speech?
Maybe I'm just misremembering, but I could've sworn conservatives kept harping on about it.
Wasn't there something about an amendment to their constitution? I believe it might've even been the first? Something about freedom of speech?
Maybe I'm just misremembering, but I could've sworn conservatives kept harping on about it.
The Constitution is silent on the matter of the cutting room floor and Ellison lawnmowers.
It only restricts the Federal government (later extended to state governments IIRC?)
This is one of many reasons Federal government is now partnered with private business.
It only restricts the Federal government (later extended to state governments IIRC?)
This is one of many reasons Federal government is now partnered with private business.
Did you have the same concerns when Biden's DoJ was colluding with social media to censor narratives they didn't like politically?
https://judiciary.house.gov/media/press-releases/google-admi...
https://judiciary.house.gov/media/press-releases/google-admi...
You mean "politely asking social media to censor narratives, with the implied force of the federal government if they choose not to comply." Which every administration has done since social media became a thing.
joe_mamba(1)
Ellison’s Murdoch killer flexing its muscles for a mild warmup.
They got Paramount and CBS and TikTok, are allied with Twitter, and still have a chance of grabbing Warner.
I don’t think American billionaires ever particularly liked Murdoch, an Australian, controlling so much of the media environment in their country. Maybe they’ll make an offer for Fox News that the Murdoch heirs can’t refuse.
They got Paramount and CBS and TikTok, are allied with Twitter, and still have a chance of grabbing Warner.
I don’t think American billionaires ever particularly liked Murdoch, an Australian, controlling so much of the media environment in their country. Maybe they’ll make an offer for Fox News that the Murdoch heirs can’t refuse.
those who were OK with malinformation being suppressed by every platform for two years (from 2020-02 to 2022-02) should be OK with this as well.
That a handful of private companies (of which, Ellison has big investments in several) have cornered the market on NAND and DRAM -- with some sources saying that these reservations extend into 2029 -- should be far more concerning. They're sprinting toward super-intelligence, while potential competitors can't even buy equipment. Both pro-immigrant and anti-immigrant arguments will seem fatuous when we are all slaves.
Maybe no-one is interested in celebrities virtual signalling any more?
Finneas (Billie Eilish's brother) isn't one for virtue signaling from what I've seen over the years from his posts. He keeps it very real and down to earth as far as celebrities go.
Poor celebrities. Having their voice stifled by foreign governments on a platform they helped promote.
It's their own government, at least for US citizens since TikTok was forced to sell their business in the US.
You're missing the point, celebrities just happen to have a huge reach and noticed the reach being cut.
This probably means everyone else is also getting their reach crippled.
Remember that even with clear video evidence, the administration lies about the events and tries to spin it as domestic terrorism.
So imagine what they are doing, and will do, without video evidence.
This is probably one of the darkest times in America... You have an administration that normalizes lying and violence, and a tens of millions of Americans that are choosing to close their eyes and suspend their morals because they're scared and confused.
This probably means everyone else is also getting their reach crippled.
Remember that even with clear video evidence, the administration lies about the events and tries to spin it as domestic terrorism.
So imagine what they are doing, and will do, without video evidence.
This is probably one of the darkest times in America... You have an administration that normalizes lying and violence, and a tens of millions of Americans that are choosing to close their eyes and suspend their morals because they're scared and confused.
First, they’re screaming OH, THE HUMANITY! over censorship before their favorite puppets take the wheel. Then, they’re the first ones ridiculing anyone else for complaining about the exact same thing.
voice stifled by oracle inc you mean?
It's being stifled by their own government. US TikTok has been taken over by a government-linked oligarch.
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