Gaza toddler returned with alleged torture wounds after Israeli detention(independent.co.uk)
independent.co.uk
Gaza toddler returned with alleged torture wounds after Israeli detention
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gaza-toddler-torture-idf-israel-detention-b2947167.html
87 comments
The list keeps growing.
- Flour massacre
- World Central Kitchen drone strikes
- Gaza aid distribution massacres
- Rafah paramedics massacre
- Targeting of journalists
- Forced starvation
- Crop destruction
Israel will deny all of those. But the world have seen it with their own eyes.
- Flour massacre
- World Central Kitchen drone strikes
- Gaza aid distribution massacres
- Rafah paramedics massacre
- Targeting of journalists
- Forced starvation
- Crop destruction
Israel will deny all of those. But the world have seen it with their own eyes.
"Israeli politician Yitzik Kroizer endorses targeting children": https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/1s42uo8/isr...
"IDF assault and arrest CNN journalists covering the settlements": https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/1s5zzey/isr...
"Israel responsible for two-thirds of record 129 press killings in 2025" - https://www.theguardian.com/media/2026/feb/25/record-number-...
"IDF assault and arrest CNN journalists covering the settlements": https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/1s5zzey/isr...
"Israel responsible for two-thirds of record 129 press killings in 2025" - https://www.theguardian.com/media/2026/feb/25/record-number-...
There seem to be two fundamentally incompatible interpretations of "Never again" [1]. I thought it was a no brainer for universal adoption, but TIL that for some it means more of the same.
1: Never again - Wikipedia https://share.google/LGCVvfaJFeJOizox9
1: Never again - Wikipedia https://share.google/LGCVvfaJFeJOizox9
Let's not forget all the raping of prisoners
And the killing of Hind Rajab, her family, and the paramedics that went to help her.
Raping with the sharp end of knives requiring surgical intervention.
they are also coming in and taking lands from the Palestinians by being annoying. like tearing down the homes they try to fix.
This has been flagged twice by people of Hackernews.
I genuinely don't know how to respond to this in good faith but I will still try to do my best.
Previous discussion (at edit 27 points): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47553964
Unless someone gives me a genuine reason as to why people are flagging it and the people who are flagging it can come state the reason publicly, just as how I am able to defend that this should be talked about and discussed publicly. I will continue to re-post this.
I just want to raise awareness and not let censorship win.
This post is beyond political, its a humanitarian post. I hope I can convey that and I hope that the streisand effect plays a part here and people become well aware of this post.
@dang, can you please prevent such posts from getting flagged? Unless there is a reason as to why these might get flagged from a hackernews moderation standpoint, it feel as if a blatant misuse of the abuse feature.
Have a nice day.
I genuinely don't know how to respond to this in good faith but I will still try to do my best.
Previous discussion (at edit 27 points): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47553964
Unless someone gives me a genuine reason as to why people are flagging it and the people who are flagging it can come state the reason publicly, just as how I am able to defend that this should be talked about and discussed publicly. I will continue to re-post this.
I just want to raise awareness and not let censorship win.
This post is beyond political, its a humanitarian post. I hope I can convey that and I hope that the streisand effect plays a part here and people become well aware of this post.
@dang, can you please prevent such posts from getting flagged? Unless there is a reason as to why these might get flagged from a hackernews moderation standpoint, it feel as if a blatant misuse of the abuse feature.
Have a nice day.
> genuinely don't know how to respond to this in good faith
Not flagging, but also not upvoting. One, it’s an ambiguous archive link. Two, I’m not getting the sense that the source is unbiased [1]. For a contentious topic, I want to form my opinions—and hear those of fellow HN users—around rock-solid sourcing.
> post is beyond political, its a humanitarian post
If it’s not political, it’s irrelevant. Gawking at humanitarian disaster isn’t a popular pass-time outside narrow bands of the internet.
If you’re posting it to effect change, it is political. That’s fine. But I’m also sceptical why this would be expected to change the balance of views on the wars in the region. IDF and Hamas—the former, probably due to resources, at larger scale than the latter—being horrible to captives is well established.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East_Eye
Not flagging, but also not upvoting. One, it’s an ambiguous archive link. Two, I’m not getting the sense that the source is unbiased [1]. For a contentious topic, I want to form my opinions—and hear those of fellow HN users—around rock-solid sourcing.
> post is beyond political, its a humanitarian post
If it’s not political, it’s irrelevant. Gawking at humanitarian disaster isn’t a popular pass-time outside narrow bands of the internet.
If you’re posting it to effect change, it is political. That’s fine. But I’m also sceptical why this would be expected to change the balance of views on the wars in the region. IDF and Hamas—the former, probably due to resources, at larger scale than the latter—being horrible to captives is well established.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East_Eye
This subthread was originally in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47557437 before we merged the threads. (I mention this because otherwise the bit about archive links doesn't make sense.)
Dang, can we post topical Ukrainian news stories now? Because it wasn't allowed for so long and all the strong wording around it not being allowed most people have probably given up, but it would be good to know if the seemingly new policy applies to all conflicts now or just Gaza/Iran seeing as you are now un-flaging conflict related threads.
> it wasn't allowed for so long
Ukraine has been my pet war for years now. I never got this sense. It just needed to have a novel technological or geostrategic angle to make the front page. "Russia is being evil" didn't usually meet that threshold because it's not news, just colouring in between the lines.
Ukraine has been my pet war for years now. I never got this sense. It just needed to have a novel technological or geostrategic angle to make the front page. "Russia is being evil" didn't usually meet that threshold because it's not news, just colouring in between the lines.
> Not flagging, but also not upvoting. One, it’s an ambiguous archive link
This wasn't the case with the previous post that I mentioned yet it got flagged
? . Two, I’m not getting the sense that the source is unbiased [1]. For a contentious topic, I want to form my opinions—and hear those of fellow HN users—around rock-solid sourcing.
When the post had gotten flagged/ I had thought of giving another link like msn (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/gaza-toddler-released-f...) and this is a bit more in-depth (https://www.msn.com/en-us/war-and-conflicts/military/palesti...)
But I found no articles as thorough as this one. I don't believe as to if anything is factually wrong
Also oops, yea I had just the link of archive.org and not the proper link (https://web.archive.org/web/20260328122756/https://www.middl...)
I am editing this for that, thank you for suggesting this!
Edit: I can't edit the hackernews post, I am a bit sorry then to hackernews community for just sharing the archive.org link but I had accidentally pasted just the archive link instead, a bit sorry about that, perhaps moderators (if they wish) can change to this particular link or if someone wants to read it: https://web.archive.org/web/20260328122756/https://www.middl...
This wasn't the case with the previous post that I mentioned yet it got flagged
? . Two, I’m not getting the sense that the source is unbiased [1]. For a contentious topic, I want to form my opinions—and hear those of fellow HN users—around rock-solid sourcing.
When the post had gotten flagged/ I had thought of giving another link like msn (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/gaza-toddler-released-f...) and this is a bit more in-depth (https://www.msn.com/en-us/war-and-conflicts/military/palesti...)
But I found no articles as thorough as this one. I don't believe as to if anything is factually wrong
Also oops, yea I had just the link of archive.org and not the proper link (https://web.archive.org/web/20260328122756/https://www.middl...)
I am editing this for that, thank you for suggesting this!
Edit: I can't edit the hackernews post, I am a bit sorry then to hackernews community for just sharing the archive.org link but I had accidentally pasted just the archive link instead, a bit sorry about that, perhaps moderators (if they wish) can change to this particular link or if someone wants to read it: https://web.archive.org/web/20260328122756/https://www.middl...
> I found no articles as thorough as this one. I don't believe as to if anything is factually wrong
Did a physician ever evaluate the child? And were the neighbours’ accounts that the child was unharmed when handed over by the father to the IDF independently verified?
Torturing a toddler wouldn’t be out of character for the IDF right now. But just because something is believable doesn’t mean it’s true. The fact that nobody else is reporting on this should be cause for pause.
Did a physician ever evaluate the child? And were the neighbours’ accounts that the child was unharmed when handed over by the father to the IDF independently verified?
Torturing a toddler wouldn’t be out of character for the IDF right now. But just because something is believable doesn’t mean it’s true. The fact that nobody else is reporting on this should be cause for pause.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gaza-to...
There are details here including quotations from an unnamed doctor. If feel you can't trust the media credentials of the Independent, you could contact them for the identity of the unnamed doctor (who they are likely protecting based on the nature of the conflict) and ask them directly.
There are details here including quotations from an unnamed doctor. If feel you can't trust the media credentials of the Independent, you could contact them for the identity of the unnamed doctor (who they are likely protecting based on the nature of the conflict) and ask them directly.
The doctor is named in the article now, perhaps as part of a later edit.
Since people are questioning the objectivity of the other domain, we'll use this link you found for the merged thread. I'll put the original link in the top text.
Since people are questioning the objectivity of the other domain, we'll use this link you found for the merged thread. I'll put the original link in the top text.
SilverElfin(3)
Did you investigate it? If someone posted that Claude code created a new language that was typesafe and 50% more efficient for LLM coding and 20% faster for a human to review without any details about the language, would you not look it up?
No knock on you directly, just an observation about the attitude in our culture. If this is true a child was tortured, if it's false someone is lying and needs to be outed (with facts) so they are not trusted. Neither one is good but is no one looking into it?
No knock on you directly, just an observation about the attitude in our culture. If this is true a child was tortured, if it's false someone is lying and needs to be outed (with facts) so they are not trusted. Neither one is good but is no one looking into it?
> Did you investigate it?
Nope. Rejecting a source doesn’t mean I am obligated to investigate it. As I said, whether this is true or not doesn’t seem particularly politically relevant. It would be interesting to know. But purely for curiosity, not because I think it will have practical effects.
Nope. Rejecting a source doesn’t mean I am obligated to investigate it. As I said, whether this is true or not doesn’t seem particularly politically relevant. It would be interesting to know. But purely for curiosity, not because I think it will have practical effects.
I generally don’t like something not related to tech in hacker news.
Humanitarian crisis is happening across the world. There were no posts here for Sudanese people. None for Nigerian Christians or Bangladeshi Hindus. Or is humanitarian crisis only happen when certain people are involved in them?
I have noticed this all across the wider web. Only when Muslims suffer from hands of non Muslims, there are protests and posts in support of them.
Pakistan is openly committing human rights violations against baluchis and have done it against Bangladeshi Hindus. Sudan and Somalia have both been supported by the gulf countries. Maybe start protesting and have same amount of human feelings for non Muslims as well.
> Pakistan is openly committing human rights violations against baluchis and have done it against Bangladeshi Hindus
Hello, I am an Indian (Hindu) person, I have made my stance extremely clear when the recent attack on India was done by terrorists in which there was a religious angle as well where Islamist extremist terrorists asked to recite an Islamic prayer otherwise they were shot.
That event has traumatized me as well, I may not have submitted it but there has always been a conflict between Hindus and Muslims after the British divided us.
I also support the baloch movement, in the sense that, Pakistani corruption/militarial aggression has severely underfunded the region while its get its resources extracted from.
So, if anything, according to your comment, you should feel like I should be against all of muslims.
but that is not the case, there are good muslims and bad muslims, just as how there are good jews and bad jews and just as how there are good and bad hindus
Essentially, religion doesn't play a role in good or bad but religion certainly extremizes the elements
In this case it was religious extremist agression from Israel (Jewish faith) to Islam/Palestine.
In our case it was religious extremist aggression from Islamist Extremist terrorist to India in pahalgam attack which had shook the nation to its core.
My point is, I can't/won't see Innocent people/kids dying, and yes, this goes beyond religion, for the most part.
I have also been aware of the sudanese people, its a real tragedy where UAE/Dubai are funding opposite sides and rape/murder/slaughtering of Innocent people are also happening, its really scary as well.
> Maybe start protesting and have same amount of human feelings for non Muslims as well.
I kind of do, It's just that Innocent Muslims are dying in higher proportions simply because they are in war-torn regions caused by Israel/US in this case of Iran/Palestine.
I genuinely want all wars to go over and have either an element of co-existence or mutual agreement for the most part.
Hello, I am an Indian (Hindu) person, I have made my stance extremely clear when the recent attack on India was done by terrorists in which there was a religious angle as well where Islamist extremist terrorists asked to recite an Islamic prayer otherwise they were shot.
That event has traumatized me as well, I may not have submitted it but there has always been a conflict between Hindus and Muslims after the British divided us.
I also support the baloch movement, in the sense that, Pakistani corruption/militarial aggression has severely underfunded the region while its get its resources extracted from.
So, if anything, according to your comment, you should feel like I should be against all of muslims.
but that is not the case, there are good muslims and bad muslims, just as how there are good jews and bad jews and just as how there are good and bad hindus
Essentially, religion doesn't play a role in good or bad but religion certainly extremizes the elements
In this case it was religious extremist agression from Israel (Jewish faith) to Islam/Palestine.
In our case it was religious extremist aggression from Islamist Extremist terrorist to India in pahalgam attack which had shook the nation to its core.
My point is, I can't/won't see Innocent people/kids dying, and yes, this goes beyond religion, for the most part.
I have also been aware of the sudanese people, its a real tragedy where UAE/Dubai are funding opposite sides and rape/murder/slaughtering of Innocent people are also happening, its really scary as well.
> Maybe start protesting and have same amount of human feelings for non Muslims as well.
I kind of do, It's just that Innocent Muslims are dying in higher proportions simply because they are in war-torn regions caused by Israel/US in this case of Iran/Palestine.
I genuinely want all wars to go over and have either an element of co-existence or mutual agreement for the most part.
> There were no posts here for Sudanese people.
You've made two submissions, neither were about Sudan.
> None for Nigerian Christians
Here's one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45789043
> Only when Muslims suffer from hands of non Muslims, there are protests and posts in support of them.
There are vast numbers of posts about Ukraine and its attack by Russia. Daily I see many comments expressing human feelings for people across the spectrum, muslim, non muslim, male, female, et al.
Perhaps your impressions are a little blinkered.
You've made two submissions, neither were about Sudan.
> None for Nigerian Christians
Here's one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45789043
> Only when Muslims suffer from hands of non Muslims, there are protests and posts in support of them.
There are vast numbers of posts about Ukraine and its attack by Russia. Daily I see many comments expressing human feelings for people across the spectrum, muslim, non muslim, male, female, et al.
Perhaps your impressions are a little blinkered.
I have seen posts about Palestine here much more than the one you got for the Nigerian Christians. The one you got is from 2025 even when the issue is still ongoing.
Maybe your impressions are muddied?
Your impression was there were _none_.
That error on your part aside, submission _topics_ here on HN are biased toward US / Western / English speaking tech interests and geographies ...
Hence the low low number of Chinese posts about tech in rural China, etc.
The topics that are posted, however (eg: Gaza, Ukraine in the political sphere) attract a breadth of viewpoints (both pro Israel and pro Palestine in the Gaza example).
Your post above essentially laments that everything is pro Muslim on HN.
You are wrong.
That error on your part aside, submission _topics_ here on HN are biased toward US / Western / English speaking tech interests and geographies ...
Hence the low low number of Chinese posts about tech in rural China, etc.
The topics that are posted, however (eg: Gaza, Ukraine in the political sphere) attract a breadth of viewpoints (both pro Israel and pro Palestine in the Gaza example).
Your post above essentially laments that everything is pro Muslim on HN.
You are wrong.
The site moderators have said that they do not see @ mentions. If you want to reach them, use the email address on the contact page linked at the bottom of the page.
Re-submitting links to try to force attention to it is also not the correct approach. If you believe a story has been wrongly flagged, directly email the HN administrators with a link to the original submission.
Re-submitting links to try to force attention to it is also not the correct approach. If you believe a story has been wrongly flagged, directly email the HN administrators with a link to the original submission.
It just proves again how White people think suffering is only for "WHITE PEOPLE", for other barbarian people, it doesn't matter.
Hackernews is dominated by white people and Indians, it's not surprising they support rape and all other crimes of Israel. If it was not the case, then this should have been surprising.
Hackernews is dominated by white people and Indians, it's not surprising they support rape and all other crimes of Israel. If it was not the case, then this should have been surprising.
I am an Indian (Hindu), Ironically, People have accused me of only caring about only Muslim feelings (:
I don't stand with rape and all other crimes of Israel because I don't judge these actions by the religion of the victims and yes, even if that might mean that, that religion might have done the same to us (Pahalgam attack which shook the nation)
I think my point is, just because muslim extremism has impacted our lives doesn't mean that Innocent muslims, especially kids should be tortured. I am more than happy if everyone removes extremist element, period.
I have said this consistently here, but this goes beyond any religion. People are treating it as a muslim kid being impacted but I am seeing it as my kid being impacted.
This war started recently, the people living their didn't know this could happen to them
We dont know the future, what if something like this might happen to one of us where the enemy might be someone else, maybe even Extremist Islam
I have raised my voice against opresssion, I don't discriminate against who I speak or not as I try to speak against the wrong, as long as someone innocent is getting opressed, My heart goes out to them and religion shouldn't have to do too much with it.
My idea maybe is that too, that, if we show support of normal people even if religious differences collide, we can show that we are beyond religion and actually help bring down Extremism/will help them bring internal resistance too if something bad is done from their extremist side.
At some point, I believe in Humanity and sharing that Humanity, So its quite shocking to say, but, its best that we start treating muslim people as humans too.
Atleast that's what my religion has taught me personally, I really don't discriminate based on religion for the most part but I do understand why people might do that but I feel like all it does is seperate us even further and I wouldn't be able to have a coherent moral framework if I become hypocritical in who I criticize/don't and become partial to it.
I don't stand with rape and all other crimes of Israel because I don't judge these actions by the religion of the victims and yes, even if that might mean that, that religion might have done the same to us (Pahalgam attack which shook the nation)
I think my point is, just because muslim extremism has impacted our lives doesn't mean that Innocent muslims, especially kids should be tortured. I am more than happy if everyone removes extremist element, period.
I have said this consistently here, but this goes beyond any religion. People are treating it as a muslim kid being impacted but I am seeing it as my kid being impacted.
This war started recently, the people living their didn't know this could happen to them
We dont know the future, what if something like this might happen to one of us where the enemy might be someone else, maybe even Extremist Islam
I have raised my voice against opresssion, I don't discriminate against who I speak or not as I try to speak against the wrong, as long as someone innocent is getting opressed, My heart goes out to them and religion shouldn't have to do too much with it.
My idea maybe is that too, that, if we show support of normal people even if religious differences collide, we can show that we are beyond religion and actually help bring down Extremism/will help them bring internal resistance too if something bad is done from their extremist side.
At some point, I believe in Humanity and sharing that Humanity, So its quite shocking to say, but, its best that we start treating muslim people as humans too.
Atleast that's what my religion has taught me personally, I really don't discriminate based on religion for the most part but I do understand why people might do that but I feel like all it does is seperate us even further and I wouldn't be able to have a coherent moral framework if I become hypocritical in who I criticize/don't and become partial to it.
Yep, it's Global North, class, and privilege bias. Unconscious to conscious racism that pervades the Global North as superior and more meaningful than the suffering of others locally or in distant lands because they're not as rich or don't look like them. History and the modern day are replete examples: African slaves in the Americas, American Indians, (Monroe Doctrine), Armenia, Vietnam, Bosnia, Rwanda, East Timor, Sudan, Darfur, Afghanistan, Iraq, Uygurs, Rohingya, many more ... and then comes Ukraine and "Oh, no, not pale Europeans" solidarity lasted for a couple of years with not as much support as 2022.
OTOH, while the Shoah (Holocaust) is a crucial case study in history and human nature that hints at systematic repression and humiliation suffered by Jews and similar groups in various forms for 2300+ years, it was perverted by some into exceptionalism justification for neocolonial ethno-religio-nationalist supremacy in the realm of Kahanism and its allied supporters in government.
OTOH, while the Shoah (Holocaust) is a crucial case study in history and human nature that hints at systematic repression and humiliation suffered by Jews and similar groups in various forms for 2300+ years, it was perverted by some into exceptionalism justification for neocolonial ethno-religio-nationalist supremacy in the realm of Kahanism and its allied supporters in government.
xvxvx(1)
camgunz(3)
>"The claims that the IDF abused a toddler are completely unfounded and serve Hamas propaganda." The spokesperson said.
>"On the contrary: The toddler was brought by a Hamas operative into a dangerous area to be used as a human shield.
Same old denials as usual, aren't they getting tired? These spokespersons don't know anything, their only job is to deny that anything happened. Which does work a lot if there are no witnesses or video. Same deal with the ambulances or journalists like Shireen Abu Akleh.
Deny. Deflect. Gaslight. Obfuscate. And if irrefutable evidence emerges, they deserved it. Weaponised narcissism by a country.
>"On the contrary: The toddler was brought by a Hamas operative into a dangerous area to be used as a human shield.
Same old denials as usual, aren't they getting tired? These spokespersons don't know anything, their only job is to deny that anything happened. Which does work a lot if there are no witnesses or video. Same deal with the ambulances or journalists like Shireen Abu Akleh.
Deny. Deflect. Gaslight. Obfuscate. And if irrefutable evidence emerges, they deserved it. Weaponised narcissism by a country.
Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender (DARVO).
Apropos: 'Iran and Gaza Are ONLY THE BEGINNING' (Chris Hedges at Princeton) March 2026
https://youtu.be/TV9dkU2E8j0
Apropos: 'Iran and Gaza Are ONLY THE BEGINNING' (Chris Hedges at Princeton) March 2026
https://youtu.be/TV9dkU2E8j0
Well that was depressing. While I already held these opinions I had some hope that what I believed wasn't true, because I didn't like what that would say about the us. A lot of people are going to have their 'are we the baddies?' moment in the near future.
Are you claiming the Hamas does not use the entire civilian population under their rule as human shields? I hope not, because that reality is obvious. It's not merely individuals, either: it's policy.
(Before responding with rhetoric in the other direction, please note that I have not taken a position on Israel here.)
(Before responding with rhetoric in the other direction, please note that I have not taken a position on Israel here.)
Where would they go where there isn't civilians that isn't just target practice for Israel?
But let's flip it, Israel does it, like outting a military HQ in a mall.
It's just an excuse used by Israel to obliterate any building they want. Hamas shot some missile from there 10 minute's ago (why would they stay around?), so they send a bomb that takes out the block. Any civilians were just human shields anyway.
But let's flip it, Israel does it, like outting a military HQ in a mall.
It's just an excuse used by Israel to obliterate any building they want. Hamas shot some missile from there 10 minute's ago (why would they stay around?), so they send a bomb that takes out the block. Any civilians were just human shields anyway.
There are places in Gaza that are agricultural and suitable for rocket launches. It's not residential blocks from fence to fence.
Hamas is motivated to damage Israel's international reputation as much as possible. (Not that Netanyahu isn't helping with that). Deliberately launching from civilian areas then condemning Israeli retaliation is in alignment with Hamas rethoric and incentives.
If a Hamas rocket hit civilian areas nearby the Israeli military HQ and Hamas said it was the target, then it would be a militarily justified launch.
Hamas is motivated to damage Israel's international reputation as much as possible. (Not that Netanyahu isn't helping with that). Deliberately launching from civilian areas then condemning Israeli retaliation is in alignment with Hamas rethoric and incentives.
If a Hamas rocket hit civilian areas nearby the Israeli military HQ and Hamas said it was the target, then it would be a militarily justified launch.
So target practice then?
US managed to use ground forces against the Taliban without leveling the city.
So you do think Hamas stay around after launching a rocket? As it would take quite a few minutes for Israel to determine launch location, get a plane in the air and drop it on that location. Then they use block leveling bombs rather than a smaller precision bomb.
Do you think the lies and denial for the buried ambulances case or the killing of journalists like Shireen Abu Akleh were just one off cases?
US managed to use ground forces against the Taliban without leveling the city.
So you do think Hamas stay around after launching a rocket? As it would take quite a few minutes for Israel to determine launch location, get a plane in the air and drop it on that location. Then they use block leveling bombs rather than a smaller precision bomb.
Do you think the lies and denial for the buried ambulances case or the killing of journalists like Shireen Abu Akleh were just one off cases?
>So target practice then?
No, it's likely retaliation with a military excuse.
>US managed to use ground forces against the Taliban without leveling the city.
Not in Raqqa or parts of Mosul. Dense urban fighting produces major destruction. Neither was Afghanistan a sealed, prepared, hyper-dense urban enclave. The Taliban largely withdrew from key cities rather than making their last stand inside them. If you check the state department reports [1], neither did the USA use troops to assault entrenched Taliban positions. It was bombing, and then local proxy infantry.
>So you do think Hamas stay around after launching a rocket?
Probably not. But the alternative is Israel just intercepting rockets with no retaliation which is unrealistic.
>Then they use block levelling bombs rather than a smaller precision bomb.
They use a variety of munitions with varying sizes and precision.
>Do you think the lies and denial for the buried ambulances case or the killing of journalists like Shireen Abu Akleh were just one off cases?
I think many Israelis have been radicalised (like the Palestinians) and several army commanders are perpetrating war crimes and atrocities. I don't think their system directs or encourages it, but it certainly doesn't do enough to prevent it. The fog of war, deference to people on the ground, the bullshit the radicalised commanders feed upward, and the political cover from the extremism of the Israeli cabinet cause the system to defend the atrocities. Although, sometimes, when the case is very obviously unjust, Israelis are held to account.
[1] https://2009-2017.state.gov/j/ct/rls/crt/2001/html/10262.htm
No, it's likely retaliation with a military excuse.
>US managed to use ground forces against the Taliban without leveling the city.
Not in Raqqa or parts of Mosul. Dense urban fighting produces major destruction. Neither was Afghanistan a sealed, prepared, hyper-dense urban enclave. The Taliban largely withdrew from key cities rather than making their last stand inside them. If you check the state department reports [1], neither did the USA use troops to assault entrenched Taliban positions. It was bombing, and then local proxy infantry.
>So you do think Hamas stay around after launching a rocket?
Probably not. But the alternative is Israel just intercepting rockets with no retaliation which is unrealistic.
>Then they use block levelling bombs rather than a smaller precision bomb.
They use a variety of munitions with varying sizes and precision.
>Do you think the lies and denial for the buried ambulances case or the killing of journalists like Shireen Abu Akleh were just one off cases?
I think many Israelis have been radicalised (like the Palestinians) and several army commanders are perpetrating war crimes and atrocities. I don't think their system directs or encourages it, but it certainly doesn't do enough to prevent it. The fog of war, deference to people on the ground, the bullshit the radicalised commanders feed upward, and the political cover from the extremism of the Israeli cabinet cause the system to defend the atrocities. Although, sometimes, when the case is very obviously unjust, Israelis are held to account.
[1] https://2009-2017.state.gov/j/ct/rls/crt/2001/html/10262.htm
I think I should find some datsset about Israeli citizens and with a configurable radius determine how many civilians live within radius of an IDF or Mossad member. Then compare the numbers against Palestine.
Nothing shocks anymore
With all this brutality and dehumanisation, no wonder the IDF are seeing the highest rates of PTSD and suicide.
With all this brutality and dehumanisation, no wonder the IDF are seeing the highest rates of PTSD and suicide.
Genuine question. Are you indicating the IDF are not supporters or don’t believe in what they are doing? Their actions are forced because of duty?
I guess if a massacre is a massacre then it would have a high chance of affecting those involved regardless of belief.
I guess if a massacre is a massacre then it would have a high chance of affecting those involved regardless of belief.
I think even if they agree at first, this can be traumatic anyway. If I remember correctly, I read about Vietnam veterans that killed civilians including children out of anger and then were horribly traumatized. So both things can be true.
What are you comparing to? The Irish military?
It's sort of mind-blowing to see 1940s being repeated. Of course both times the victim group were viewed as sub-human/barbaric "other"...
Before someone yells "Godwin!", read the Wikipedia page about that law, Godwin himself said it's fine to mention Nazis when it's actually a comparable thing.
If you have 3 hours, there's a documentary you can watch, about a man who was part of a government-sanctioned killsquad to kill a lot of "communists" in 1960's Indonesia: The Act of Killing (available at e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TDeEObjR9Q ).
It's sort of understandable why the defenders of the genocide have to keep defending it. Stopping doing so today would mean admitting that until yesterday you've been defending utter inhumanity.
A review:
> Joshua Oppenheimer’s The Act of Killing is a challenging documentary. It is not only difficult to watch, but it also probes into one of the most grotesque aspects of human nature: the capacity for self-delusion in the face of horrific atrocities. This isn’t a film about history, facts, or statistics; it’s about the memories of the men who killed, the stories they tell themselves, and how they continue to live with the horrors they’ve inflicted on others. The film’s power lies in its ability to take the viewer beyond a surface-level understanding of evil and into the psychological abyss of those who have committed atrocities—and seemingly moved on with their lives.
From: https://docthisway.com/2024/09/23/the-act-of-killing-review/
If you have 3 hours, there's a documentary you can watch, about a man who was part of a government-sanctioned killsquad to kill a lot of "communists" in 1960's Indonesia: The Act of Killing (available at e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TDeEObjR9Q ).
It's sort of understandable why the defenders of the genocide have to keep defending it. Stopping doing so today would mean admitting that until yesterday you've been defending utter inhumanity.
A review:
> Joshua Oppenheimer’s The Act of Killing is a challenging documentary. It is not only difficult to watch, but it also probes into one of the most grotesque aspects of human nature: the capacity for self-delusion in the face of horrific atrocities. This isn’t a film about history, facts, or statistics; it’s about the memories of the men who killed, the stories they tell themselves, and how they continue to live with the horrors they’ve inflicted on others. The film’s power lies in its ability to take the viewer beyond a surface-level understanding of evil and into the psychological abyss of those who have committed atrocities—and seemingly moved on with their lives.
From: https://docthisway.com/2024/09/23/the-act-of-killing-review/
Someone had submitted the same article and I was reading that article and I was in complete and utter shock and then I reloaded the hackernews page and I saw the post flagged.
I really don't know/wish to know what your ideology is, but why this struck my mind was the imagination that this could've been my kid or this can be your kid, to whoever is reading this within wars and the brutality of this.
I just can't out of good faith, let that discussion be ended, it is worth talking and worth submitting again. I have also archived the web page on archive.org
"Mankind must put an end to war before war puts an end to mankind"
I just can't help but think, have we already lost mankind/(humanity?) in cases like these.
I wish for everyone to stay safe and hopefully, this time around, this post doesn't get flagged.
Have a nice day.
I really don't know/wish to know what your ideology is, but why this struck my mind was the imagination that this could've been my kid or this can be your kid, to whoever is reading this within wars and the brutality of this.
I just can't out of good faith, let that discussion be ended, it is worth talking and worth submitting again. I have also archived the web page on archive.org
"Mankind must put an end to war before war puts an end to mankind"
I just can't help but think, have we already lost mankind/(humanity?) in cases like these.
I wish for everyone to stay safe and hopefully, this time around, this post doesn't get flagged.
Have a nice day.
Thanks for your service in alerting us to this unsubstantiated and terrible incident. Are you going to make a new submission for each of the tens of thousands of Iranians killed or tortured by their own government? Where are your posts for the undisputed Hamas atrocities which instigated all of this? Are these not sufficiently traumatizing to insist that they be brought to the attention of the readers in this inappropriate forum? But now we should all just get along?
> Are you going to make a new submission for each of the tens of thousands of Iranians killed or tortured by their own government
Please go read my comments on Iranian regime. I have Iranian friends online and they all have spoken highly badly of Iranian regime.
You know that the people of Iran are the most haters of their own regime, because its their freedom which gets infringed upon, when you and I talk on a forum of freedom. They were literally protesting.
but the same innocent people are also being bombed by USA and Israel (Please refer to the post about Iranian Schools with girls getting bombed) and no, that isn't disputed by anybody.
So, to me, who has both Israeli and Iranian Friends. Do you really want to know what I believe?
I believe that this is an extreme blunder from the USA/Israeli Side to wage this war. They could've done this a month ago when protests were happening and the people of Iran would be on their side but they have essentially just made the nation get a common-enemy as innocents die as well.
And even my Israeli/Jewish and US friends are agreeing on me that this war has been a massive blunder. The straight of hormuz which was previously opened has now effectively given Iranian regime a tax on 20% of oil supply with a toll booth effectively.
If you want boots on the ground, its gonna be a forever war & innocents will die as well, just as they did in the last middle-east wars. Nearly nobody I know wants yet another Middle east war.
Iran was weakening by itself with protests from the people actually living inside. Either US/Israel had the tiny window during that to attack but as soon as the protests were brutally crushed, then launching a month after protests ended has led to this Iran war disaster.
Either way, Innocent lives of Iran are dying. I have met friends in my life of Iranian descent online who are now taken offline because of the war, I sometimes wonder if they are even alive or not, the same way during protests, I hate both their regime and Israel/US for this war and the way they are handling this war with innocents being killed, and no, once again, it has been confirmed in nearly all media reports that one finds where the natural conclusion is that, yes Innocent people are dying because of this war and this is what I am against.
I am against wars, period. I am not biased towards any one side because I somehow like the islamist theocratic regime, Again read my comments on hackernews or even on this thread. I and my nation have been on the opposing side of an Islamist extremism attack (India) and I was shook to my core.
But that doesn't mean that all muslims are bad or would not make me sad if a muslim boy is hurt, it hurts me equally as much as if it might hurt a boy of my own community.
Once again, there are good muslims and bad muslims, good jews and bad jews, good hindus and bad hindus.
At some point, there are good people and bad people and religion doesn't become a point of bias in my line of thinking.
Once again, please read my messages/learn a bit about me, if you wish to respond to me, I would really appreciate it.
Have a nice day.
Please go read my comments on Iranian regime. I have Iranian friends online and they all have spoken highly badly of Iranian regime.
You know that the people of Iran are the most haters of their own regime, because its their freedom which gets infringed upon, when you and I talk on a forum of freedom. They were literally protesting.
but the same innocent people are also being bombed by USA and Israel (Please refer to the post about Iranian Schools with girls getting bombed) and no, that isn't disputed by anybody.
So, to me, who has both Israeli and Iranian Friends. Do you really want to know what I believe?
I believe that this is an extreme blunder from the USA/Israeli Side to wage this war. They could've done this a month ago when protests were happening and the people of Iran would be on their side but they have essentially just made the nation get a common-enemy as innocents die as well.
And even my Israeli/Jewish and US friends are agreeing on me that this war has been a massive blunder. The straight of hormuz which was previously opened has now effectively given Iranian regime a tax on 20% of oil supply with a toll booth effectively.
If you want boots on the ground, its gonna be a forever war & innocents will die as well, just as they did in the last middle-east wars. Nearly nobody I know wants yet another Middle east war.
Iran was weakening by itself with protests from the people actually living inside. Either US/Israel had the tiny window during that to attack but as soon as the protests were brutally crushed, then launching a month after protests ended has led to this Iran war disaster.
Either way, Innocent lives of Iran are dying. I have met friends in my life of Iranian descent online who are now taken offline because of the war, I sometimes wonder if they are even alive or not, the same way during protests, I hate both their regime and Israel/US for this war and the way they are handling this war with innocents being killed, and no, once again, it has been confirmed in nearly all media reports that one finds where the natural conclusion is that, yes Innocent people are dying because of this war and this is what I am against.
I am against wars, period. I am not biased towards any one side because I somehow like the islamist theocratic regime, Again read my comments on hackernews or even on this thread. I and my nation have been on the opposing side of an Islamist extremism attack (India) and I was shook to my core.
But that doesn't mean that all muslims are bad or would not make me sad if a muslim boy is hurt, it hurts me equally as much as if it might hurt a boy of my own community.
Once again, there are good muslims and bad muslims, good jews and bad jews, good hindus and bad hindus.
At some point, there are good people and bad people and religion doesn't become a point of bias in my line of thinking.
Once again, please read my messages/learn a bit about me, if you wish to respond to me, I would really appreciate it.
Have a nice day.
I've read what you've written. I agree with some of it. There are many things which were done as ineptly as you'd expect from the current US government. Nonetheless, a thing worth doing is often worth doing badly.
It would have been better to have done this at the time of the initial Iranian protests. Unfortunately it takes time for the US to move all its hardware into place. If the US had proceeded to "do something" at that time and things didn't go well, the same people who are saying that now is too late would be saying that we should have been more prepared before acting.
It is disingenuous to say that the Iranian people are being bombed by the US and Israel. Surely you understand what the goals of the war are. Or maybe you don't since you bring up the girls' school as if that was intentional and not a mistake. Both the US and Israel would be thrilled if only the evil rulers of Iran could be eliminated with no innocent people being hurt.
People are wringing their hands about the economic fallout from the Iranian theocracy's control of the Strait. Maybe consider how much more effective that control would be if they were allowed to finish developing their nuclear weapons.
One thing I don't understand is why you thought it was important to amplify this particular incident by posting it here. You write as if you seek a cooperative solution yet you were seemingly unaware how incendiary and divisive posting that story would be. You also mention the girls' school yet again. Saying you're "against wars" is insipid. Everyone is against wars except the jihadists. Your protestations notwithstanding and your portrayal of yourself as some kind of pacifist, the things you have posted and have written here demonstrate that you are biased towards one side.
It would have been better to have done this at the time of the initial Iranian protests. Unfortunately it takes time for the US to move all its hardware into place. If the US had proceeded to "do something" at that time and things didn't go well, the same people who are saying that now is too late would be saying that we should have been more prepared before acting.
It is disingenuous to say that the Iranian people are being bombed by the US and Israel. Surely you understand what the goals of the war are. Or maybe you don't since you bring up the girls' school as if that was intentional and not a mistake. Both the US and Israel would be thrilled if only the evil rulers of Iran could be eliminated with no innocent people being hurt.
People are wringing their hands about the economic fallout from the Iranian theocracy's control of the Strait. Maybe consider how much more effective that control would be if they were allowed to finish developing their nuclear weapons.
One thing I don't understand is why you thought it was important to amplify this particular incident by posting it here. You write as if you seek a cooperative solution yet you were seemingly unaware how incendiary and divisive posting that story would be. You also mention the girls' school yet again. Saying you're "against wars" is insipid. Everyone is against wars except the jihadists. Your protestations notwithstanding and your portrayal of yourself as some kind of pacifist, the things you have posted and have written here demonstrate that you are biased towards one side.
> People are wringing their hands about the economic fallout from the Iranian theocracy's control of the Strait. Maybe consider how much more effective that control would be if they were allowed to finish developing their nuclear weapons.
Both the US and Israel had confirmed that they had previously completely and utterly destroyed Nuclear Bombs. I really don't think that its the reason.
And also the control of the strait, only happened, because Israel/US attacked it.
> One thing I don't understand is why you thought it was important to amplify this particular incident by posting it here
Because this particular incident goes beyond religion. I have tried saying this 5 times now, my friend. If you feel like I have some religious qualms, obviously I have none. I was deeply emotionally troubled by this story during that time and I felt like hackernews's flagging of it was somewhat unjustful (which has been promptly unflagged by courtesy of dang) and the story deserved more attention (which it promptly has gotten), I have tried to respond to every comment as much as I can too. I am not hidden behind anything. I have tried to explain my thinking process multiple times.
> Your protestations notwithstanding and your portrayal of yourself as some kind of pacifist, the things you have posted and have written here demonstrate that you are biased towards one side
This is ironic because if I should be biased towards one side as an Hindu, it might be against anti-Islam but according to you I am biased with Islam. Let me please restate that I simply am not biased towards any particular religion.
I want to know something my friend, What will be the outcome of all of this?? All of this bloodshed, all of these cries and screams of innocents. From both sides. Israel might have an upper hand right now but the tides may change or they may not change.
Even then when history reflects on this, Do you feel like even an ounce of hesitation that history will reflect negatively if it don't end up on winning side (or even if it does)?
Matt stone is Jewish and In a sense of irony, it is south park which best reflects what I mean within their episode of Israel-Palestine war. Everyone is going to hate on the jews now because of these wars and there will be even more resentment within the region between arabs and jewish faith. And I hope that it goes without saying, that my criticism of Israeli regime doesn't equal an criticism of Jewish faith as a whole.
Within the eyes of the public, It is Israel & USA who have started the wars, who have caused the forever war to happen.
As a Jewish person, if I may ask you my friend, do you feel hate online nowadays? and if so, are you feeling like my message is directed with hate?
Because I know that it isn't you directly who is causing this child harm, It's the Israeli Regime and I want you to know, that your direct or indirect support to the current Israeli Regime is, in a similar fashion to what you might feel of a Muslim person being in support of their Muslim Regime.
I sincerely recommend watching that South park Episode from Matt Stone, my friend. I want you to know that I am against the current Iranian but also the Israeli regime and I am neither against the Israeli or Iranian innocent people. Both the former will be my enemy and both the latter will be my friend. These are my morals.
Have a nice day, my friend. I hope I can say the same to my Iranian friends too who have gone off the grid because of previously their own regime but now the Iran-war. I can be wrong, and I usually am, but right now, I stand by everything with what I have said.
(I would also like to state that Israeli people can have an internal rising against an fascist Israeli regime, similar to how my friends in US are fighting for what they believe to be right within peaceful protests. I hope that you can peacefully protest within your country and your country allows this right, because, I genuinely feel like all of these things and especially supporting the Israeli regime right now isn't/might not be reflected within the best of light)
I have an exam tomorrow, I have taken an hour to write this comment to explain how I feel of all this, Anyways, Wish me luck for my exam and have a nice day!
Both the US and Israel had confirmed that they had previously completely and utterly destroyed Nuclear Bombs. I really don't think that its the reason.
And also the control of the strait, only happened, because Israel/US attacked it.
> One thing I don't understand is why you thought it was important to amplify this particular incident by posting it here
Because this particular incident goes beyond religion. I have tried saying this 5 times now, my friend. If you feel like I have some religious qualms, obviously I have none. I was deeply emotionally troubled by this story during that time and I felt like hackernews's flagging of it was somewhat unjustful (which has been promptly unflagged by courtesy of dang) and the story deserved more attention (which it promptly has gotten), I have tried to respond to every comment as much as I can too. I am not hidden behind anything. I have tried to explain my thinking process multiple times.
> Your protestations notwithstanding and your portrayal of yourself as some kind of pacifist, the things you have posted and have written here demonstrate that you are biased towards one side
This is ironic because if I should be biased towards one side as an Hindu, it might be against anti-Islam but according to you I am biased with Islam. Let me please restate that I simply am not biased towards any particular religion.
I want to know something my friend, What will be the outcome of all of this?? All of this bloodshed, all of these cries and screams of innocents. From both sides. Israel might have an upper hand right now but the tides may change or they may not change.
Even then when history reflects on this, Do you feel like even an ounce of hesitation that history will reflect negatively if it don't end up on winning side (or even if it does)?
Matt stone is Jewish and In a sense of irony, it is south park which best reflects what I mean within their episode of Israel-Palestine war. Everyone is going to hate on the jews now because of these wars and there will be even more resentment within the region between arabs and jewish faith. And I hope that it goes without saying, that my criticism of Israeli regime doesn't equal an criticism of Jewish faith as a whole.
Within the eyes of the public, It is Israel & USA who have started the wars, who have caused the forever war to happen.
As a Jewish person, if I may ask you my friend, do you feel hate online nowadays? and if so, are you feeling like my message is directed with hate?
Because I know that it isn't you directly who is causing this child harm, It's the Israeli Regime and I want you to know, that your direct or indirect support to the current Israeli Regime is, in a similar fashion to what you might feel of a Muslim person being in support of their Muslim Regime.
I sincerely recommend watching that South park Episode from Matt Stone, my friend. I want you to know that I am against the current Iranian but also the Israeli regime and I am neither against the Israeli or Iranian innocent people. Both the former will be my enemy and both the latter will be my friend. These are my morals.
Have a nice day, my friend. I hope I can say the same to my Iranian friends too who have gone off the grid because of previously their own regime but now the Iran-war. I can be wrong, and I usually am, but right now, I stand by everything with what I have said.
(I would also like to state that Israeli people can have an internal rising against an fascist Israeli regime, similar to how my friends in US are fighting for what they believe to be right within peaceful protests. I hope that you can peacefully protest within your country and your country allows this right, because, I genuinely feel like all of these things and especially supporting the Israeli regime right now isn't/might not be reflected within the best of light)
I have an exam tomorrow, I have taken an hour to write this comment to explain how I feel of all this, Anyways, Wish me luck for my exam and have a nice day!
Ignoring the possibilities bots and engagement for disingenuous purposes, there are many people who benefit from the status quo, still other horrible people who support it, and still others who patronizingly declare certain topics must be censored for some fanciful, tone-deaf ideals that fail to meet the moment. All will be remembered how they failed to stop suffering, destruction, and calamity or possibly cheered it on. There is no right or left, only right and wrong and ultra-rich vs. everyone.
Well said, I agree with you. Some things go beyond politics and this is one of them and you're either on the right side of the history or wrong.
It’s pretty safe at this point to directly associate any support for Israel as a form of violent racism.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-denies-repo...