Poll: Are you a drinker or a teetotaler?
From https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8339667 - are you a drinker or not.
130 comments
I have been a regular drinker for most of my adult life.
Recently, I tried a "semi-dry July", where I told myself I would drink only once a week (with no limit on that day, i.e. binge drinking allowed). But when I got to that day, I felt only like having one beer or so, and same the following week.
Well, here's an amazing thing, shocking and totally counterintuitive: I felt much better while doing this than I did for years before that. My mental acuity went up noticeably, and was much longer lasting - I would wake up at 7am and feel mentally sharp within 15 minutes, and stay mentally sharp all the way to 10pm or so.
I was forced due to holidays and social circumstances to resume drinking in August. Well, now that the social circumstances and holidays are out of the way, I've gone back to not drinking. I'm still in the ramping up phase, and every day I feel better than the last.
I strongly recommend giving this a go to pretty much everyone on Hacker News: try going a month without alcohol, see how you feel.
Oh, I'll add that near the end of "semi-dry July", I had one instance where I had a couple of pints with a friend (social pressure!). I could feel that my brain was noticeably less sharp and my motivation was noticeably down compared to before. That lasted 2.5 days. TWO AND A HALF DAYS!
My conclusion: When you don't drink, it's as if you hired an extra one of you to work on your business. When you do, it's as if you fired that extra person. Are you resource-constrained? Stop drinking. You'll save money too - bonus!
Recently, I tried a "semi-dry July", where I told myself I would drink only once a week (with no limit on that day, i.e. binge drinking allowed). But when I got to that day, I felt only like having one beer or so, and same the following week.
Well, here's an amazing thing, shocking and totally counterintuitive: I felt much better while doing this than I did for years before that. My mental acuity went up noticeably, and was much longer lasting - I would wake up at 7am and feel mentally sharp within 15 minutes, and stay mentally sharp all the way to 10pm or so.
I was forced due to holidays and social circumstances to resume drinking in August. Well, now that the social circumstances and holidays are out of the way, I've gone back to not drinking. I'm still in the ramping up phase, and every day I feel better than the last.
I strongly recommend giving this a go to pretty much everyone on Hacker News: try going a month without alcohol, see how you feel.
Oh, I'll add that near the end of "semi-dry July", I had one instance where I had a couple of pints with a friend (social pressure!). I could feel that my brain was noticeably less sharp and my motivation was noticeably down compared to before. That lasted 2.5 days. TWO AND A HALF DAYS!
My conclusion: When you don't drink, it's as if you hired an extra one of you to work on your business. When you do, it's as if you fired that extra person. Are you resource-constrained? Stop drinking. You'll save money too - bonus!
I've been doing this all of September, thus far, but I've been trying to do it completely sober. And although I have had a couple of beers (for instance I had one on NFL opening weekend) they have only been one for the night, and usually with some friends in a celebration. I have been feeling great after days that I would normally go drink. On a Saturday morning I'll wake up full of energy and ready for a bike ride or a run. However on a typical weeknight, when I don't usually drink anyway, I haven't noticed much of a difference. One thing I have noticed is that, that one beer has more of an effect the next day than I thought it did though!
Various friends suggest "detoxing" ever now and again. The longest I've lasted has been 3 weeks. Never makes me feel any different. Just makes socialising harder work.
> Recently, I tried a "semi-dry July", where I told myself I would drink only once a week (with no limit on that day, i.e. binge drinking allowed).
I appreciated this part isn't the emphasis of your story, but I feel I should point out that the above approach is worse for your liver than having a couple of drinks everyday.
That aside, there's been a few studies (though I can't recall how scientific they were) which follows a group of drinkers who abstain for a month, and visa versa, to monitor the after effects drinking has on a persons cognitive abilities. Those studies also supported your anecdotes.
I appreciated this part isn't the emphasis of your story, but I feel I should point out that the above approach is worse for your liver than having a couple of drinks everyday.
That aside, there's been a few studies (though I can't recall how scientific they were) which follows a group of drinkers who abstain for a month, and visa versa, to monitor the after effects drinking has on a persons cognitive abilities. Those studies also supported your anecdotes.
My old boss's brother liked to drink, and he always spent one month a year dry in order to prove he was still in control. But she said he always made it February, because it was the shortest month...
I have a friend who does a similar thing with smoking - every year or so he'll stop for three to six months to prove to himself he still can.
The problem with both these is obviously what happens if you find you're not in control. Would you really admit it?
The problem with both these is obviously what happens if you find you're not in control. Would you really admit it?
I think this applies much more as you get older. Recovery from a few pints used to take a few hours out of the following day in my early twenties. In my early thirties it takes a few days.
That's a good point, I hadn't thought of that... I am 34 now, so perhaps that's why the effect seems so pronounced.
In Ireland, an old school country tradition is a dry November. I think the reason was to save for Christmas, but I think it's generally useful to have some cultural habits for mitigating these things.
The following comment/observation could be about anything - not specific to drinking. You wrote "I was forced ... to resume drinking...". No you weren't. You chose to do so. You may feel that you were pressured by other people to drink but I would bet a huge amount that no one tied your hands and used force to feed you alcohol. If you ever need motivation to refuse to drink, re-read the rest of your post and you should find all the good reasons to do so.
Sure - it was a bit tongue-in-cheek. I was on a Tango dancing holiday in Buenos Aires and, well, dancing is more fun when you've had a glass of wine :-)
There's a time for everything. The key insight, to me, is to realise that I am way sharper on zero-alcohol, and that every time I make an exception it takes two and a half days to get back to normal.
There's a time for everything. The key insight, to me, is to realise that I am way sharper on zero-alcohol, and that every time I make an exception it takes two and a half days to get back to normal.
Let's step back a second and use a very clear observation. This is like saying to someone overweight - why don't you stop eating crappy food. Look at the mis-information, man. Additionally, social "norms" force a lot of cultural influence to do so. This falls in line that America is a "drinking" society. Go watch Ken Burn's Prohibition just a fact of record. I haven't even touched on the addiction aspects, because I think its self-explanatory on how it plays out on people - no matter if its eating, smoking, drinking, etc.
No, this is like replying to someone's statement "I was forced to eat unhealthy foods." by pointing out that they are shifting the responsibility of their actions onto their circumstances and surroundings. Those may have an influence on you, but the best way to see change in your life is to accept responsibility for your actions and bring them in line with your goals.
Well I know I can't be the only person who had to look this up:
>Teetotalism refers to either the practice of, or the promotion of, complete personal abstinence from alcoholic beverages.
I mean, I kind of inferred, but this is my first time hearing the term.
Anyway, I only drink on special occasion or when I go out to a fancy restaurant. Other than that it's copious amounts of marijuana.
>Teetotalism refers to either the practice of, or the promotion of, complete personal abstinence from alcoholic beverages.
I mean, I kind of inferred, but this is my first time hearing the term.
Anyway, I only drink on special occasion or when I go out to a fancy restaurant. Other than that it's copious amounts of marijuana.
A while ago I was listening to some podcast discussion on beneficial "drugs" and some of the problems of classifying things as drugs, harmful or beneficial.
In any case, 'even alcohol can teach you some things" came up. It got me thinking. Most people experience (or semi-knowingly exhibit) reduced inhibition. If you're able to pay attention and observe, experiencing reduced inhibition has a side effect of shedding light on the existence and the nature of your inhibitions otherwise. It's interesting. It's not a 'nature of compassion' type of enlightenment, but potentially interesting nonetheless.
There's a resurgence of interest in psychedelic spiritual practices. The use of drugs in religious or cultural context is extremely ancient, possibly predating fully modern humans. But alcohol is also a part of that tradition. In fact, the use of alcohol in religious ceremony survives and is widespread in Christianity, Judaism and many other religions.
Ketamine is addictive and potentially harmful in several ways. Many are adamant that it's interesting and beneficial as well. I'm not sure those statements are competitive.
In any case, 'even alcohol can teach you some things" came up. It got me thinking. Most people experience (or semi-knowingly exhibit) reduced inhibition. If you're able to pay attention and observe, experiencing reduced inhibition has a side effect of shedding light on the existence and the nature of your inhibitions otherwise. It's interesting. It's not a 'nature of compassion' type of enlightenment, but potentially interesting nonetheless.
There's a resurgence of interest in psychedelic spiritual practices. The use of drugs in religious or cultural context is extremely ancient, possibly predating fully modern humans. But alcohol is also a part of that tradition. In fact, the use of alcohol in religious ceremony survives and is widespread in Christianity, Judaism and many other religions.
Ketamine is addictive and potentially harmful in several ways. Many are adamant that it's interesting and beneficial as well. I'm not sure those statements are competitive.
I can relate to that. The first few times I smoked weed, I noticed I was able to listen to music much more deeply. Somehow, it taught me how to appreciate music in a different way.
I think grass changes (or enhances) the way we make connections and associations. That's got all sorts of interactions with art. The "Woah! Dude. Have you ever thought.." cliche has a deeper, less silly version too.
Context is limited to the associations you make and a lot of meaning is dependent on context. It's a fairly good approximation for perspective another cliche way of describing the effects. If feel like I should say "mind expanding" just for completion's sake.
Speaking of associations, I'm remembering years ago hearing some old recording of Christopher Hitchens furiously defending Salman Rushdie and even more furiously attacking the apologists and appeasers. He apologized for all the cliches he was forced to use. Freedom is indivisible. Fascism means War. etc.
Cliches are easy and cheap but sometimes they contain a simple version of an insight, hidden behind a kind of cliche blindness. There's a reason they keep getting rediscovered.
Anyway.. Dude have you ever really listened to yellow submarine? I mean really listened? Dude...
Context is limited to the associations you make and a lot of meaning is dependent on context. It's a fairly good approximation for perspective another cliche way of describing the effects. If feel like I should say "mind expanding" just for completion's sake.
Speaking of associations, I'm remembering years ago hearing some old recording of Christopher Hitchens furiously defending Salman Rushdie and even more furiously attacking the apologists and appeasers. He apologized for all the cliches he was forced to use. Freedom is indivisible. Fascism means War. etc.
Cliches are easy and cheap but sometimes they contain a simple version of an insight, hidden behind a kind of cliche blindness. There's a reason they keep getting rediscovered.
Anyway.. Dude have you ever really listened to yellow submarine? I mean really listened? Dude...
I definitely learned a lot by drinking. Quite a few times, I went into a meditative state, where I was observing the way I feel/think/act while being drunk. Or I would go over the events that happened, before I got completely sober (and forgot most of what happened). I think I'm much more honest and open because of it (not always a good thing, but it's aligned with my principles and I like living like that). I don't drink that much any more.
I learned a TON from booze. But at some point it stopped helping and started hurting. Dunzo.
I haven't seen the term before too. It's etymology is interesting: 1830s, from total, the reduplicated tee being an intensifier – “T-total” (see https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/teetotal).
> from total, the reduplicated tee being an intensifier – “T-total”
Interesting. I wonder if there are other words formed in this same way. (Can't think of any.)
Interesting. I wonder if there are other words formed in this same way. (Can't think of any.)
UPDATE: I could not find any other such words in the more traditional dictionaries. But Urban Dictionary has some informal usages that follow that pattern:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=a-alike
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gee-gawker
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=p-pissed
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=a-alike
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gee-gawker
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=p-pissed
That seems like we need a follow up poll then - do you smoke weed! The discussion resulting from "do you smoke weed but not drink alcohol" might be interesting too?
Why leave it at that? Why not ask everyone if they do amphetamine daily or just once a week?
Ahem
"After 1971 he also took amphetamines, despite the concern of his friends, one of whom (Ron Graham) bet him $500 that he could not stop taking the drug for a month.[17] Erdős won the bet, but complained that during his abstinence, mathematics had been set back by a month: "Before, when I looked at a piece of blank paper my mind was filled with ideas. Now all I see is a blank piece of paper." After he won the bet, he promptly resumed his amphetamine use."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Erd%C5%91s#Personality
"After 1971 he also took amphetamines, despite the concern of his friends, one of whom (Ron Graham) bet him $500 that he could not stop taking the drug for a month.[17] Erdős won the bet, but complained that during his abstinence, mathematics had been set back by a month: "Before, when I looked at a piece of blank paper my mind was filled with ideas. Now all I see is a blank piece of paper." After he won the bet, he promptly resumed his amphetamine use."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Erd%C5%91s#Personality
It's important to remember this, quoting from another HN comment [1]:
> Erdős was a heavy user of many other stimulants (like coffee), but only started to use antidepressants and then amphetamines in 1971 when he was 58 after his mother died. He was already established as a first rate mathematician (he should have won the Fields Medal), and using amphetamines to work 19 hours a day was his way of coping with the death of his mother.
[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8316764
> Erdős was a heavy user of many other stimulants (like coffee), but only started to use antidepressants and then amphetamines in 1971 when he was 58 after his mother died. He was already established as a first rate mathematician (he should have won the Fields Medal), and using amphetamines to work 19 hours a day was his way of coping with the death of his mother.
[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8316764
Is Twitter's management team on HN? That could skew the results...
Would be interesting to see a poll on smoking weed, I would say a lot of people who do smoke weed would not drink alcohol that often, if none at all.
They've been done before.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=509614 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8021822 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7594543
Search Google with "site:news.ycombinator.com marijuana ask hn" and variations thereof.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=509614 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8021822 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7594543
Search Google with "site:news.ycombinator.com marijuana ask hn" and variations thereof.
Awesome thanks!
I wouldn't say I'm a heavy drinker since I mostly drink one beer per day but since it's the only option for me, I guess I'm a heavy drinker according to this poll.
I came here to post the same thing; it would be very odd for one drink per day to be considered "heavy drinking." There actually is a technical definition of heavy drinking available from the NIH[0] which defines it mostly in terms of binge drinking:
> SAMHSA defines heavy drinking as drinking 5 or more drinks on the same occasion on each of 5 or more days in the past 30 days.
According to the same source:
> moderate drinking is up to 1 drink per day for women and up to 2 drinks per day for men.
As a man who tends to drink one drink per day, I fall into "moderate," but I could actually drink twice as much as I do and still not be "heavy" by these definitions. Even ignoring technical definitions, I don't think I personally know anybody who would consider one drink a day to be "heavy" drinking.
I find this poll and its chosen terminology to be especially interesting given the recent discussion of an article about the health benefits of drinking daily[1].
[0] http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-your-health/overview-alcoho...
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8279949
> SAMHSA defines heavy drinking as drinking 5 or more drinks on the same occasion on each of 5 or more days in the past 30 days.
According to the same source:
> moderate drinking is up to 1 drink per day for women and up to 2 drinks per day for men.
As a man who tends to drink one drink per day, I fall into "moderate," but I could actually drink twice as much as I do and still not be "heavy" by these definitions. Even ignoring technical definitions, I don't think I personally know anybody who would consider one drink a day to be "heavy" drinking.
I find this poll and its chosen terminology to be especially interesting given the recent discussion of an article about the health benefits of drinking daily[1].
[0] http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-your-health/overview-alcoho...
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8279949
Usually in polls like this drinking without a stipulation of "just the one" infers "more than a unit or two of alcohol". It is rare that when I drink I just have the one.
Of course any set of definitions like this is going to put some in what they consider the wrong category. I drink a couple times a week, and avoid drinking at home unless I have guests around for that or a related event, but when I do drink there tends to be quite a bit involved. By the definitions here I'm a "regular drinker" but I think I better fit in the "heavy" category.
Of course any set of definitions like this is going to put some in what they consider the wrong category. I drink a couple times a week, and avoid drinking at home unless I have guests around for that or a related event, but when I do drink there tends to be quite a bit involved. By the definitions here I'm a "regular drinker" but I think I better fit in the "heavy" category.
The term for that is "binge drinking", and it's supposed to be more unhealthy than regular drinking.
I'm with you--I have a beer with dinner almost every night, but it is very rare for me to have three drinks in a night.
Same boat. I didn't put myself in the heavy drinker category, but I do usually have one with lunch or dinner (rarely both) and the occasional glass of wine after dinner.
Same here. I voted twice, once for Regular and once for Heavy as I guess I could be classified as both
I'd like to be able to do this. If I have just a single beer I can get quite tired/sleepy, so when I drink I tend to have a few. Actually, I was talking about this recently with a friend and quite often a hangover can be more intense if I have, say, 3 beers than if I have 6. Really strange.
The poll seems coloured/biased towards binge-drinking cultures. To say that someone who has a glass of beer with his dinner on most days is a "heavy drinker" sounds ridiculous.
> To say that someone who has a glass of beer with his dinner on most days is a "heavy drinker" sounds ridiculous.
Drink Aware tells me that eight cans of Coors Light per week ( a baseline I chose ) is 12 units.
http://www.drinkaware.co.uk/understand-your-drinking/unit-ca...
The UK recommended limit for men is 21 units per week. So you'd be just over halfway there, which doesn't give much leeway for any social events.
Drink Aware tells me that eight cans of Coors Light per week ( a baseline I chose ) is 12 units.
http://www.drinkaware.co.uk/understand-your-drinking/unit-ca...
The UK recommended limit for men is 21 units per week. So you'd be just over halfway there, which doesn't give much leeway for any social events.
> which doesn't give much leeway for any social events.
If social drinking is part of that culture (outside of common meals, like dinner).
If social drinking is part of that culture (outside of common meals, like dinner).
Wish there was a category for "Former drinker, now teetotaller". There are only so many times you can ask your friends to clean up your puke, talk the cops out of arresting you, and drag your passed-out-ass back to the hotel before you wake up and say, "maybe I shouldn't drink anymore"
Also there's no option for "never drinks but is not a teetotaler". I don't have anything against drinking, I could if I wanted to, but I don't. Teetotalism implies rigidness/preaching.
I know a few people who are total themselves, but don't preach. In fact one or two are happy to join us at the pub (though my regular circles are not "silly drinkers" so that might change if we were).
I never thought it implied that. I have certainly known some people who didn't drink, and were preachy about it, but they have been the minority. The vast majority of people I know who don't drink tend to be pretty cool about it. Though, being a sober person around a bunch of drunk people would try anyone's patience, so I tend to just stay away from places that I know will be filled with drunk people.
I'll join and complain about the lack of a "former teetotaller, now drinker" option.
Also, I want a "Formerly heavy drinker, then teetotaller, now social drinker, but afraid of slipping into heavy drinking again so considering simply avoiding all that by teetotalling again" option. I bet it'd get more than a few votes.
Also, I want a "Formerly heavy drinker, then teetotaller, now social drinker, but afraid of slipping into heavy drinking again so considering simply avoiding all that by teetotalling again" option. I bet it'd get more than a few votes.
I haven't asked my friends to do any of those for >5 years, but I'll still have five or six drinks several times a month. It's very possible to learn where your limits are, and use alcohol to enhance your socialising without having to hit the bad stuff you've described.
Some people really don't have that sort of self control after a little drink, so their only path to not being ill is to not have the first one.
I've not been ill through drink since a certain point in my early 20s when I was not in a fit mental state for a while (unless you count the occasion when I stupidly went out for a couple on an empty stomach after giving blood that afternoon). My body gives me advanced warning that I'm heading towards a state of having "had enough" and I have the good sense to listen to it even when quite "influenced", but I know people who do not seem so lucky.
People can react to alcohol (and other behaviour altering substances) quite differently, one rule does not fit all.
I've not been ill through drink since a certain point in my early 20s when I was not in a fit mental state for a while (unless you count the occasion when I stupidly went out for a couple on an empty stomach after giving blood that afternoon). My body gives me advanced warning that I'm heading towards a state of having "had enough" and I have the good sense to listen to it even when quite "influenced", but I know people who do not seem so lucky.
People can react to alcohol (and other behaviour altering substances) quite differently, one rule does not fit all.
I definitely fall under the "some people" group you referenced.
My biggest problem is that I eat and drink _very_ quickly. It is just a habit, my dad blames himself for inadvertently teaching us to eat and drink quickly.
This creates a problem because, while socializing, I can easily plow through a handful of cocktails before I feel the effects of any of them. Combine that with a not-great tolerance for alcohol, and I can be blacked-out before I knew what hit me.
I recognized this problem, and tried to correct it by drinking more slowly. But like I say elsewhere in this thread, I didn't _always_ remember to do that, and so would still have a "bad night" often enough that it came to affect my relationships.
My biggest problem is that I eat and drink _very_ quickly. It is just a habit, my dad blames himself for inadvertently teaching us to eat and drink quickly.
This creates a problem because, while socializing, I can easily plow through a handful of cocktails before I feel the effects of any of them. Combine that with a not-great tolerance for alcohol, and I can be blacked-out before I knew what hit me.
I recognized this problem, and tried to correct it by drinking more slowly. But like I say elsewhere in this thread, I didn't _always_ remember to do that, and so would still have a "bad night" often enough that it came to affect my relationships.
It's not necessarily self control. Responses to alcohol are significantly influenced by genetics.
Even if everyone had the same level of self control, some people would still tend towards teetotal behaviour, others would develop alcohol addiction.
There was a study proving a link to one specific gene in mice a while back:
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/press.office/press.release/item/a-gene-...
Human responses are more complex, but there's enough research to suggest a strong genetic component in problem drinking.
Even if everyone had the same level of self control, some people would still tend towards teetotal behaviour, others would develop alcohol addiction.
There was a study proving a link to one specific gene in mice a while back:
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/press.office/press.release/item/a-gene-...
Human responses are more complex, but there's enough research to suggest a strong genetic component in problem drinking.
I got it to the point where it wouldn't happen _every_ time I drank, but I still messed up often enough that it started to affect my relationships. I just decided it wasn't worth it. I'm not an alcoholic, I never _needed_ to drink, I just have a really difficult time stopping when I should.
How does it enhance your socializing?
It reduces inhibitions, makes you more relaxed, frequently more open, less judgemental. And, importantly, because people know you're drunk as well, it reduces their inhibitions around you as well, even if they're drinking less than you.
I hope I don't have to make the case as to why reducing inhibitions and making everyone more relaxed enhances socialising?
I hope I don't have to make the case as to why reducing inhibitions and making everyone more relaxed enhances socialising?
[deleted]
I'm a teetotaler. At every social gathering - be it work or relatives - somebody asks me the inevitable question "but why?". I never have a good answer. I have no idea why I'm a teetotaler, I just am. I did try alcoholic drinks exactly 3 times in my life, and didn't like anything about them. I think drinkers - even the casual ones - hate teetotalers.
In my experience there are three groups of teetotalers.
There are the ones who don't drink and don't have a problem with other people drinking. The people who are genuinely in this group, you don't even notice they don't drink. Drinkers have no quarrel with this group.
The second group are very vocal about their disapproval and are constantly telling you you shouldn't drink etc. They are irritating but can be ignored.
The third group thinks they are part of group 1, but they are actually closer to group 2. They never overtly tell you anything bad, but you get the constant sense that they are looking down on you. Drinkers don't like this group because they feel like they are constantly being judged, but not in a direct way they can challenge.
The three can probably be summed up by their response to the question, "Would you like a beer?"
Group 1: "No thanks, could I have a glass of water?"
Group 2: "No thanks, I'd rather not destroy my liver."
Group 3: "No thanks, I don't drink."
There are the ones who don't drink and don't have a problem with other people drinking. The people who are genuinely in this group, you don't even notice they don't drink. Drinkers have no quarrel with this group.
The second group are very vocal about their disapproval and are constantly telling you you shouldn't drink etc. They are irritating but can be ignored.
The third group thinks they are part of group 1, but they are actually closer to group 2. They never overtly tell you anything bad, but you get the constant sense that they are looking down on you. Drinkers don't like this group because they feel like they are constantly being judged, but not in a direct way they can challenge.
The three can probably be summed up by their response to the question, "Would you like a beer?"
Group 1: "No thanks, could I have a glass of water?"
Group 2: "No thanks, I'd rather not destroy my liver."
Group 3: "No thanks, I don't drink."
I have to add one group to your list, people who can't drink because of health issues or use of prescription drugs to treat health issues. I've been one of these persons for over a year now.
Group 4: "I would love to but I can’t. I’ll just have a glass of water (or a near-beer) instead"
Group 4: "I would love to but I can’t. I’ll just have a glass of water (or a near-beer) instead"
This is a disappointing line of thought. I'm firmly in group 1, but typically respond with "No thanks, I don't drink" to save myself from having to fend off drink offers for the rest of the night. For that, I am disliked....
This is just how I think about it. But then again, if you declined the first alcoholic drink then I wouldn't offer you another. You might be on medication, a teetotaler, or a recovering alcoholic for all I know, and I'm not the kind of person that needs to keep encouraging people around me to drink.
Yes, this also describes me - I have tried alcoholic drinks just twice (on my 21st birthday and champagne on my honeymoon), and thought them astringent and unpleasant.
More to the point, I've never even sought out, uh, non-sobriety, certainly the world's most popular avocation. I am apparently a mutant, and I definitely feel weird about it. I grew up in LA with no religious background, so it was decidedly countercultural.
Although when I went to Harvey Mudd, there was a definite teetotaling contingent among the self-experimentalists. There, if you brought up the Super Bowl, some would simply say "Spectator sports don't interest me." It was like that.
More to the point, I've never even sought out, uh, non-sobriety, certainly the world's most popular avocation. I am apparently a mutant, and I definitely feel weird about it. I grew up in LA with no religious background, so it was decidedly countercultural.
Although when I went to Harvey Mudd, there was a definite teetotaling contingent among the self-experimentalists. There, if you brought up the Super Bowl, some would simply say "Spectator sports don't interest me." It was like that.
I'm the same way. Alcoholic drinks never appealed to me in any way. To me they taste bad and smell bad. And the idea of becoming intoxicated is in no way appealing.
I am clearly in the minority of people in the world. But I really have no idea why alcohol is so popular.
I am clearly in the minority of people in the world. But I really have no idea why alcohol is so popular.
Sometimes the idea of becomming intoxicated is the appealing thing :)
I drink one almost every evening. If its really good wine, i drink two. Usually once a week i drink a few more, ranging from 2 to 10 or so, depending on the beer, wine or the occasion. Usually the next day i dont drink at all. I do feel shitty the next day. Sometimes I sort of enjoy having a hangover. Theres not mutch to think about then. All there is, is the hope I feel good again soon.
I used to binge occasionally, and used to regularly drink. I met a woman who doesn't drink, so I decided that I wouldn't either. I've had a few drinks since then, mostly in her presence and usually not more than one. I can say that I quit four years ago, but the last drink I had was about 8 months ago. Yea people think I'm weird if I tell them I don't drink, but I really don't care. And after I quit I was amazed at the amount of advertising for drinking is in everyday life, and how embedded it is into american culture. I don't miss waking up with a hangover.
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I am in my early twenties, and I have yet to drink my first alcoholic beverage. I made a decision a few years ago after weighing the negatives and positives of drinking against each other, and concluded that drinking alcohol provided very few benefits in comparison to the potential risks.
I grew up around a lot of alcoholics - it actually runs in my family. My mother and father have been split up since I was a baby - on opposide sides of the country. My dad only drinks once or twice a year, socially. My mom and step-dad drank all the time and were very open about it - letting me try things, etc. When I was a teenager, I stopped trying drinks and abstained 100%, even after my mom offered to buy me whatever I wanted. Her goal/theory was to teach me how to be responsible/mature with alcohol by learning to drink just one, etc... Instead of learning with my friends and getting wasted.
Well, I hated drunks, hated drunk driving, hated so many things about it... So I found a group of kids who knew how to have fun without it, and even after most of them started drinking (later than average), I still abstained.
Anyway, to the point... In my early 20's, I opened up a little, learned my limits, learned my preferences (I really don't like beer, but hard cider and mixed drinks are great - I like sour drinks like Margaritas and Whiskey Sours), etc... And that's when I learned the benefits of light usage. I enjoyed myself a lot more and found my altered state of mind liberating to a degree (less social inhibition, but I also feel like I can think clearer/faster when I am just a little tipsy).
If you believe you could be an alcoholic, then don't start... But otherwise, I'd recommend you break down some of those barriers you have against it - keep to a goal of only drinking once a month, and only 2 beers/ciders or one mixed drink until you are comfortable/stable.
Last - To the person who said they've only tried Bud Light - no wonder you don't like to drink... lol... Not exactly the cream-of-the-crop.
Well, I hated drunks, hated drunk driving, hated so many things about it... So I found a group of kids who knew how to have fun without it, and even after most of them started drinking (later than average), I still abstained.
Anyway, to the point... In my early 20's, I opened up a little, learned my limits, learned my preferences (I really don't like beer, but hard cider and mixed drinks are great - I like sour drinks like Margaritas and Whiskey Sours), etc... And that's when I learned the benefits of light usage. I enjoyed myself a lot more and found my altered state of mind liberating to a degree (less social inhibition, but I also feel like I can think clearer/faster when I am just a little tipsy).
If you believe you could be an alcoholic, then don't start... But otherwise, I'd recommend you break down some of those barriers you have against it - keep to a goal of only drinking once a month, and only 2 beers/ciders or one mixed drink until you are comfortable/stable.
Last - To the person who said they've only tried Bud Light - no wonder you don't like to drink... lol... Not exactly the cream-of-the-crop.
Late thirties here, and I've never drank, not once. Not for any religious reasons, but exactly what you said: I weighed the positives and negatives as a teen, and decided I'd have more fun watching my friends get drunk and making sure they got home okay, than ending up in the same mess as them.
I respect that decision, but it is a bit of a false dichotomy. You can responsibly drink w/o becoming "a mess". Granted, that probably works better as an adult than as a teenager. Personally, I follow the 'everything in moderation, even moderation' approach.
Well, that was my thought process as a teen. As I got older, I just never saw a need to start drinking. I guess I grew out of it without ever experiencing it. At this stage in my life, why bother?
Well, there is something to say about a good whiskey. It smells like so many things, and tastes like many others.. I can just smell my glass all evening without ever drinking. It's usually expensive enough that I don't even have enough to feel it, and it lasts a long time (since I keep smelling.. ).
What you say sounds to me as if you've never tried chocolate (the good kind, not the sugary cheap one).
What you say sounds to me as if you've never tried chocolate (the good kind, not the sugary cheap one).
I can understand that point of view; I love the smell of a good cigar. I just won't smoke one for personal reasons.
And yes, I've had gourmet chocolate; I'm not sure what that has to do with alcoholic drinks.
And yes, I've had gourmet chocolate; I'm not sure what that has to do with alcoholic drinks.
^This. Well, I'm 20 and I had half of a bud light at a block party. tasted like horse piss, and I haven't considered wanting a drink since.
You might want to consider drinking something tasty, a proper pilsener. Some things, like coffee or coriander, are acquired tastes. I don't encourage you to drink, but having an opinion about all alcoholic drinks after one try might be a bit harsh. If you dont like some vegetable the first time you try, will you never try it again?
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Risks?
On a side note; the distribution of alcohol habits in humans matches that of monkeys showing that our liking of alcohol is determined mostly by our genes. For more insight into this, watch this video from BBC Worldwide:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSm7BcQHWXk
Which may also the best 3-minute video on youtube ever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSm7BcQHWXk
Which may also the best 3-minute video on youtube ever.
Every Friday and Saturday I usually have a mad one, then I don't touch it during the drop. I'm aware alcohol's the same as nicotine, it's an addictive substance, I know that's why I drink. I'd like to one day be teetotal. I did go 2 month previously as I worry about what it's doing to my health, and I have to admit drinking isn't the only factor that comes into these two nights a week... but I found my friends stopped coming to visit because they thought they couldn't drink. I started to become a social pariah, I used to go out skateboarding at 2am alone. It was kind of awesome, but I felt like I was missing out on my friends activities etc.
Why not make it explicit to your friends that they are welcome to drink even if you're not drinking? I was at a BBQ yesterday, everyone was pissed, I just drank water... that wasn't a problem.
Just don't rub your non-drinking in people's faces, and let them drink as much as they want.
Just don't rub your non-drinking in people's faces, and let them drink as much as they want.
Well, they'd come to visit me on a Friday night for a drink, but when I wasn't drinking, they'd ring another friend that was going out for a drink if you see what I mean. I think they were afraid that if they came to me, they'd have to drink tea and watch youtube video's all night or something.
Simple solution is to invite them round, give them some beers, and sit down with your orange juice and be your usual self :-)
Not drinking doesn't mean you can't have a well stocked drinks cabinet/fridge!
Not drinking doesn't mean you can't have a well stocked drinks cabinet/fridge!
Where's - doesn't drink at all on the weekdays, and then drinks extremely heavily on the weekend? Best burnout mitigator.
It's weird when you encounter people who develop/code while drinking heavily. I know a crew that does this, spends evenings doing sessions with tons of beer.
Frankly I don't think it leads to much productivity, but there may be some social benefits. That said, me + beer + code = some cleanup the next morning.
I love beer and beer only, and leading the dev half of a startup + a new baby has really deprioritized that in my life. I drink on Friday and Saturday nights exclusively, no more than 4 drinks and always at home. Even then I feel a bit rough, grumpy and unproductive the following day.
I think that while age may play a role in this - the proverbial "I can't drink like when I was in my 20s" - I think it's more a matter of the amount of responsibilities and how that translates into recovery time. When I was 24, I could spend a whole Saturday and Sunday doing nothing but recovering from a hangover. If I did that today I'd spend months recovering from a divorce and a collapsed business.
Ultimately, my experience switching from casual drinking to limited drinking has cemented the fact that alcohol is generally bad for a human that needs to get things done every day. This a bummer for me because I'd otherwise be fine drinking 3 good beers a night.
Frankly I don't think it leads to much productivity, but there may be some social benefits. That said, me + beer + code = some cleanup the next morning.
I love beer and beer only, and leading the dev half of a startup + a new baby has really deprioritized that in my life. I drink on Friday and Saturday nights exclusively, no more than 4 drinks and always at home. Even then I feel a bit rough, grumpy and unproductive the following day.
I think that while age may play a role in this - the proverbial "I can't drink like when I was in my 20s" - I think it's more a matter of the amount of responsibilities and how that translates into recovery time. When I was 24, I could spend a whole Saturday and Sunday doing nothing but recovering from a hangover. If I did that today I'd spend months recovering from a divorce and a collapsed business.
Ultimately, my experience switching from casual drinking to limited drinking has cemented the fact that alcohol is generally bad for a human that needs to get things done every day. This a bummer for me because I'd otherwise be fine drinking 3 good beers a night.
Link to the discussion thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8339667
Wow, this really took off, looks like the right thread for a Friday.
(original poster here, sorry I couldn't make the poll, not enough karma - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8339667)
As I was saying, I am alcohol abstinent for about two weeks. I had been a daily drinker before, mainly beer, living in Belgium. I am not Belgian myself but I totally love Belgian beers. I tried them all. It's maybe the #1 reason to live here. There are several motives why I started this teetotaler challenge: I sometimes put myself to such challenges just to make my strong will stronger, I want to get healthier (this is debatable I know), and my wife said I couldn't do it :P
The thing is that my sleep pattern changed since I started this. I am waking up very early and tired around 6:30, though my alarm is set at 8:30. I turn in not very late, around 23:00. And I am tired most of the time. There might be other reasons for it (excited about my start-up and still doing the 9 to 5 as a contractor), but I'm wondering if any of you guys experienced this when you gave up alcohol.
As I was saying, I am alcohol abstinent for about two weeks. I had been a daily drinker before, mainly beer, living in Belgium. I am not Belgian myself but I totally love Belgian beers. I tried them all. It's maybe the #1 reason to live here. There are several motives why I started this teetotaler challenge: I sometimes put myself to such challenges just to make my strong will stronger, I want to get healthier (this is debatable I know), and my wife said I couldn't do it :P
The thing is that my sleep pattern changed since I started this. I am waking up very early and tired around 6:30, though my alarm is set at 8:30. I turn in not very late, around 23:00. And I am tired most of the time. There might be other reasons for it (excited about my start-up and still doing the 9 to 5 as a contractor), but I'm wondering if any of you guys experienced this when you gave up alcohol.
I suspect this varies a lot between regions. In the UK, I drinking one or 2 pints of beer in a pub is quite a common social activity; same in the states?
Well, what does "drinker" mean. I drink a beer almost every day, but seldom I drink more than that. I have friends who drink at least 5 beers every day. Obviously we don't compare, but we'd vote equally on this poll.
Also, it matters when you drink it. I drink very late in the evening, definitely after dinner, and way past I finished working. Some people drink in the morning or at lunch.
Also, it matters when you drink it. I drink very late in the evening, definitely after dinner, and way past I finished working. Some people drink in the morning or at lunch.
I often drink - beer, wine, liquor. Mostly because I like the taste, sometimes because of social situations. I rarely get drunk (a few times a year), mostly I drink so little (a glass or two) to feel no effects. When I get drunk, I drink as much water as I can until I get sober (before going to sleep!), that prevents the hangover the next day.
Grew up in a family where drinking is totally accepted as long as you don't get wrecked. I picked social drinker. I used to be a regular drinker at university, but when I finished I had no desire to drink regularly.
What I found interesting in my family is that, we all enjoy drinking and insist on having a couple of drinks whenever we meet up. I also think that because of the relaxed nature about it, it has contributed to my lack of desire to drink all the time. But then I have friends who drink like there is no tomorrow and their parents/family strictly practice teetotalism.
Something I try to live by: everything in moderation is fine. If I had a long week, its always nice to get out your favourite whiskey and have a glass with a mixer. It relaxing, the same way going to gym, playing on your gaming console,walking or meditating is relaxing.
What I found interesting in my family is that, we all enjoy drinking and insist on having a couple of drinks whenever we meet up. I also think that because of the relaxed nature about it, it has contributed to my lack of desire to drink all the time. But then I have friends who drink like there is no tomorrow and their parents/family strictly practice teetotalism.
Something I try to live by: everything in moderation is fine. If I had a long week, its always nice to get out your favourite whiskey and have a glass with a mixer. It relaxing, the same way going to gym, playing on your gaming console,walking or meditating is relaxing.
Here's one advice I wouldn't give in person because people may find it wrongly offensive: there are several ways of relaxing that don't have 'slowly destroying your brain' included. This is HN, so I suppose most people here see a lot of beauty in things that only shows with deep intellectual effort. The ability of enjoying this pleasure is one of the things I value the most.
Of course, only you have enough data to analyze wether the drinking toll will be a net positive or negative on your life, but I'm inclined to believe not drinking is favoured since the fun outta drinking is largely replaceable while your brain isn't.
Of course, only you have enough data to analyze wether the drinking toll will be a net positive or negative on your life, but I'm inclined to believe not drinking is favoured since the fun outta drinking is largely replaceable while your brain isn't.
There are plenty of ways to relax without 'destroying you brain', that's the reason why I said relaxing can be meditation, going to the gym or playing on your gaming console. Everybody is different, as the poll evidence suggest in this thread.
There is a reason why I said everything in moderation, because we don't live in a perfect world where everything can be performed to perfection. I am not defending or promoting the use of alcohol but looking at the problem at hand, alcohol gets a bad reputation because its abused.
If people on HN see beauty in things that only shows with deep intellectual effort, then why has this topic been voted up? Surly it is somewhat interesting to the intellectual minds in this community.
There is a reason why I said everything in moderation, because we don't live in a perfect world where everything can be performed to perfection. I am not defending or promoting the use of alcohol but looking at the problem at hand, alcohol gets a bad reputation because its abused.
If people on HN see beauty in things that only shows with deep intellectual effort, then why has this topic been voted up? Surly it is somewhat interesting to the intellectual minds in this community.
Teetotaler. Not very uncommon here(India) for my generation. It is a not a cultural thing and drinkers usually tried to hide the habit from their family (Though it is changing fast. It is considered cool now and movies and TV serials have at least one scene in a bar). Initially I didn't do it because it is generally considered as a bad habit and
none of my close friends or relatives drank. Later I decided not to do that because I didn't want to lose my senses. I still remember a company outing where a colleague got naked in front of everybody after drinking. I don't to end up like that :-)
I didn't find option for anti-social light drinker. once a week, alone at home.
I drink most days, maybe 2 beers, or split a bottle of wine with the SO. Some days I drink more, when out celebrating or after a really lousy day. I try not to get drunk, but it happens occasionally.
I have, generally, 1-2 drinks per day, where a drink is 1.5oz of something like bourbon or whisky or scotch. I use it to unwind when I get home from work, usually whilst working on personal projects. That being said the definitions you've given above are interesting. A "light drinker" who drinks a fifth of Jack in one night drinks significantly more than I do, but if he/she only does it once a week are they truly light drinkers?
Volume/time is probably a more accurate benchmark.
Volume/time is probably a more accurate benchmark.
I checked teetotaler but in an effort to be truthful, I'll state that I do drink very rarely (amounting to perhaps one or two glasses of wine a year). I don't think that makes me a "social drinker" but I also don't want to drag down a celebration by being "that vocal objector" (would you refuse to toast with champagne at a wedding?).
I find most people don't really see that as a problem. You probably already have another drink to use nearby.
True ... and often weddings will have sparkling grape juice available if there are children at the reception. I guess I also don't see drinking the champagne as a problem but when a business acquaintance has spent a thousand dollars on a bottle of wine to celebrate a milestone, he might in fact be offended that you're not even tasting "his favorite wine".
I was a heavy drinker for about two/three years. When I say heavy, I mean a fifth of rum every afternoon. I do my best not to drink like that any more, but I still have the habit. So if I'm not paying attention to what I'm doing, my beer will vanish in about a minute and a half, and I'll have another one, and another, and another etc.
I am tee total. There is no alcoholic drink that doesn't taste like vomit to me. I also really dislike the type of intoxication alcohol causes. That said, I see some people enjoy it and I understand why, and I will happily join them up until the point where they become incomprehensible...
I'm not a teetotaler but rarely drink. I think I started to drink very occasionally after 30. My parents were alcoholic when I grew up which may explain why i refrained from drinking when I was a teenager. However, I vaporise weed about once a week.
I'm probably a heavy drinker, maybe, depends on the week. I had a couple where I was drinking every day, then a dry week, then a holiday where I drank every day, now a dryish week. Mostly I drink more over the summer, more parties and such.
I'm a social drinker, but I'm not very social. (Male, 20s, London UK)
Used to drink beer every day because I like the taste. Quit because of dieting since taste is pretty much proportional to calories.
Beer is probably my second best drink, right after water. Too bad I can't drink it anymore.
Beer is probably my second best drink, right after water. Too bad I can't drink it anymore.
I drink a shot of Tequila every evening after dinner. So, pretty much every day, but only one drink. I very rarely drink more than 1 drink a day. Am I a heavy drinker or a regular drinker?
Tee-total. Male 30 living in London, UK. I used to drink in the teens but gave up at 18. Not had a drink since.
I also don't do any drugs so no weed for me.
I also don't do any drugs so no weed for me.
I'm a teetotaler, but not by choice. My body reacts violently to even the slightest hint of alcohol.
Used to be regular but now social - body can't take it well no more - age unfortunately
Yeah I guess my answer would be different if this pool wasn't created on Friday.
Abstinent is a better word - It implies a will of steel and a wish to not look so 45
I am a binge drinker (once or twice per week but usually in large quantities)
Formerly functioning heavy-drinker. 4.5 years dry. Much happier.
A drink a day makes you a "heavy drinker"??
Not sure why you got downvoted.
Current UK advice for men is two to three units max per day with some days drink free and don't binge.
A 330ml bottle of beer five days a week is well within those levels and would not be seen by most people in the UK as heavy or problem drinking.
It does get a bit trickier when you talk about glasses of wine. People have less idea of how much alcohol is in their glass, and small errors mulity over a week.
Current UK advice for men is two to three units max per day with some days drink free and don't binge.
A 330ml bottle of beer five days a week is well within those levels and would not be seen by most people in the UK as heavy or problem drinking.
It does get a bit trickier when you talk about glasses of wine. People have less idea of how much alcohol is in their glass, and small errors mulity over a week.
I'm Irish.
80% teetotaler, 20% social drinker
I'd say that I'm 16.
Straight edge, so, teetotal.
Teetotal here. :P
Don't drink, love my heroin though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Functional alcoholic here ...hic