Extremism pays. That's why Silicon Valley isn’t shutting it down(theguardian.com)
theguardian.com
Extremism pays. That's why Silicon Valley isn’t shutting it down
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/18/extremism-pays-why-silicon-valley-not-shutting-it-down-youtube
11 comments
Why does anyone trust essentially unaccountable big advertising companies like Google and Facebook to correctly draw the line on extremism?
While that’s definitely a factor, I wouldn’t umderestimate just how much shutting down expression rubs a significant number of people in tech the wrong way. Some will object on libertarian grounds, some will object on slippery slope grounds, even when the examples are obvious and heinous. A lot more will object to “shutting it down” when the line is blurry, or object to the notion of the likes of FB, Google, and Twitter as arbiters of what is and is not extreme.
I’m in the middle. There is a lot of obviously violent, vile crap on places like Reddit that needs “shutting down.” I’m unconcerned with the rights of child and animal abusers to freely express themselves. I’m equally unsympathetic to Nazis and white supremacists, but after that it gets a little hairy.
Are people in the “Drop The T” movement extremists? I disagree with them, but I don’t think they should be “shut down,” but plenty would leap at the chance. I think Peter Thiel is a blowhard and a prick, but I don’t think he should be censored. Who gets to draw the line? And redraw it? Who gets to say there is a line? I wouldn’t trust myself to do it. I’m not sure I’d trust anyone else either.
Maybe it really is better to have a free for all, than a free for none.
I’m in the middle. There is a lot of obviously violent, vile crap on places like Reddit that needs “shutting down.” I’m unconcerned with the rights of child and animal abusers to freely express themselves. I’m equally unsympathetic to Nazis and white supremacists, but after that it gets a little hairy.
Are people in the “Drop The T” movement extremists? I disagree with them, but I don’t think they should be “shut down,” but plenty would leap at the chance. I think Peter Thiel is a blowhard and a prick, but I don’t think he should be censored. Who gets to draw the line? And redraw it? Who gets to say there is a line? I wouldn’t trust myself to do it. I’m not sure I’d trust anyone else either.
Maybe it really is better to have a free for all, than a free for none.
> I’m equally unsympathetic to Nazis and white supremacists
What about Communists?
What about Communists?
a lot of regimes call(ed) themselves communist while being something very different. I’m not a fan of the ideology, not in the least because it always seems to fail in spectacularly ugly ways, such as Stalinism, Maoism, or that tragicomic Juche shit in North Korea. Having said that, I don’t believe that I’ve ever met an actual Communist, so I couldn’t say. If I did, I’d mostly point out the history of their ideology in practice, and be massively skeptical of either their motives, or intellect.
Does that satisfactorily answer your question?
Does that satisfactorily answer your question?
> Does that satisfactorily answer your question?
No, not really.
> Having said that, I don’t believe that I’ve ever met an actual Communist, so I couldn’t say.
Goalpost moving. What does meeting them have to do with it? I strongly doubt you've ever met any actual Nazis, either, since there haven't been any of those for about seventy years.
Dude, there are Marxists everywhere, primarily because it's somehow still socially acceptable to be a Communist -- which is the issue I'm trying get you to address.
> I’m not a fan of the ideology, not in the least because it always seems to fail in spectacularly ugly ways, such as Stalinism, Maoism, or that tragicomic Juche shit in North Korea
But not enough of a non-fan that you'd advocate that Marxist material be banned from, say, YouTube?
Communists have murdered far more people than the Nazis ever did.
Also, communists still control entire countries, with standing armies and nuclear weapons.
By contrast, the "Nazis" of today are mostly small groups of rednecks who can barely make the payments on their mobile homes.
Why is one worse/more of a danger than the other, to the extent that one group should have its material banned, but the other not?
No, not really.
> Having said that, I don’t believe that I’ve ever met an actual Communist, so I couldn’t say.
Goalpost moving. What does meeting them have to do with it? I strongly doubt you've ever met any actual Nazis, either, since there haven't been any of those for about seventy years.
Dude, there are Marxists everywhere, primarily because it's somehow still socially acceptable to be a Communist -- which is the issue I'm trying get you to address.
> I’m not a fan of the ideology, not in the least because it always seems to fail in spectacularly ugly ways, such as Stalinism, Maoism, or that tragicomic Juche shit in North Korea
But not enough of a non-fan that you'd advocate that Marxist material be banned from, say, YouTube?
Communists have murdered far more people than the Nazis ever did.
Also, communists still control entire countries, with standing armies and nuclear weapons.
By contrast, the "Nazis" of today are mostly small groups of rednecks who can barely make the payments on their mobile homes.
Why is one worse/more of a danger than the other, to the extent that one group should have its material banned, but the other not?
> I’m equally unsympathetic to Nazis and white supremacists, but after that it gets a little hairy.
It is far too easy to label people you disagree with Nazis and white supremacists.
I'm unsympathetic to people who think it's ok to gas Jews etc - but I don't trust the media, or YouTube, to accurately categorize people.
I certainly don't trust political activists.
It is far too easy to label people you disagree with Nazis and white supremacists.
I'm unsympathetic to people who think it's ok to gas Jews etc - but I don't trust the media, or YouTube, to accurately categorize people.
I certainly don't trust political activists.
Come again? Youtube isn't shutting down leftist extremist content. But right-wing channels are getting banned by the dozen. Even relatively moderate right-wing channels are going down.
Post some examples of this "leftist extremist" content? I'm curious.
Yeah, if it was purely 'extremism sells', then these sites wouldn't be banning right wing channels or subreddits or whatever else, but pushing them due to all the clicks they get and the easy controversy they stir up.
The fact one side can almost get away with murder on many social media platforms and one site has to walk on eggshells makes it seem like extremism isn't being pushed from both sides here.
The fact one side can almost get away with murder on many social media platforms and one site has to walk on eggshells makes it seem like extremism isn't being pushed from both sides here.
The biggest risk is in the rhetorical miscategorization of the content, which sidelines critical voices from the popular discussion by conflating them with those of conspiracy entertainment.
We should abandon the use of terms like “extremism” and the like, in favor of more specification. This will lessen the unwanted side effects of marginalizing important voices.