China promotes education drive to make boys more 'manly'(bbc.com)
bbc.com
China promotes education drive to make boys more 'manly'
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55926248
69 comments
That someone is perhaps a member of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference. I think a close equivalence is an MP in the UK or a congressman / congresswoman / senate in the US.
They make proposals on various aspects of life in China. Those proposals aren't official policies.
BBC should really have done a better job here.
It is also funny to see the top thread a few minutes ago quickly developed into something like military might and "China must be stopped".
They make proposals on various aspects of life in China. Those proposals aren't official policies.
BBC should really have done a better job here.
It is also funny to see the top thread a few minutes ago quickly developed into something like military might and "China must be stopped".
> They make proposals on various aspects of life in China. Those proposals aren't official policies.
> BBC should really have done a better job here.
The BBC has been flogging SJW agendas for a while now. Even though they're a state organ they need clicks just like anyone else -- and this gets traffic.
Mix in some good ole China xenophobia and voila, one of the most active posts on HN.
The formula works.
The BBC has been flogging SJW agendas for a while now. Even though they're a state organ they need clicks just like anyone else -- and this gets traffic.
Mix in some good ole China xenophobia and voila, one of the most active posts on HN.
The formula works.
nomdep(2)
The BBC is very quick on jumping to anything that can portray China in a negative light at the moment.
Now, there are many things that do, but a more prudent and balanced approach with more research would serve the BBC well.
Now, there are many things that do, but a more prudent and balanced approach with more research would serve the BBC well.
Anyone who follows main stream entertainment in China and social media would understand these events as a commonly occurring cultural phenomenon (roughly the equivalent of 'masculinity/identity crisis' lately).
Having lived in Europe for more than a decade I however, did find the english title very alarming and worrying, even while reading the same chinese text have no such feeling at all.... language works in different context I suppose...
Having lived in Europe for more than a decade I however, did find the english title very alarming and worrying, even while reading the same chinese text have no such feeling at all.... language works in different context I suppose...
Two things to note here, first that this isn't really different to any other part of the world. There's always some concern about feminisation of men by (usually) older people who had a rough childhood in the war or something and now project their ideals onto others.
The other thing to note, although its not particularly interesting, is that there's going to be a media bias against china from the west in general.
The other thing to note, although its not particularly interesting, is that there's going to be a media bias against china from the west in general.
Unrelated to the article, but let’s not forget that leeching of estrogen into the ecosystem. This is a real thing and very measurable by ecologists.
The US Army also tests such things as sperm count and has seen a rapid decline.
So the real solution is less pollution :)
The US Army also tests such things as sperm count and has seen a rapid decline.
So the real solution is less pollution :)
Hmm. Sudden off-topic thought: I regularly hear about the decline in violent crime, and hear it attributed to the end of leaded gasoline. Could it be due to falling sperm count instead (or due to the cause of the falling count)?
There are nuances and some culture differences in young people from asian and US background e.g. The feminine males are a big part in the mass media such as pop culture (Jpop or Kpop) and anime. Never have the muscular characters dominated any genre (just check any main guy in Japanese/Korean productions). The frail ones are a stereotypical archetype. But I guess you're right about the older generation projecting ideals onto youths nowadays...
Whatever China does lately seems to be tailored to inch its society toward more expansive mode and military values. A lot of nationalism in the curriculum, the "wolf warriors" ideas etc.
I do not think they are doing this for shits and giggles. They invest a lot overseas and must be aware that one day, one of their client countries will rebel and will need to be subdued militarily to protect the investments and dissuade others from going down the same road.
The question is what is the rest of the world going to do. So far we seem to be mostly ignoring this yet-soft development, maybe because the idea of having a Cold War 2.0 with a major industrial power is really uncomfortable.
I do not think they are doing this for shits and giggles. They invest a lot overseas and must be aware that one day, one of their client countries will rebel and will need to be subdued militarily to protect the investments and dissuade others from going down the same road.
The question is what is the rest of the world going to do. So far we seem to be mostly ignoring this yet-soft development, maybe because the idea of having a Cold War 2.0 with a major industrial power is really uncomfortable.
> The question is what is the rest of the world going to do.
Most of the world probably dislikes China as much as they dislike the USA. If anything, they will be indifferent to the conflict, unless they happen to be in a "proxy-conflict" zone.
Most of the world probably dislikes China as much as they dislike the USA. If anything, they will be indifferent to the conflict, unless they happen to be in a "proxy-conflict" zone.
The UK is siding strongly with the US on this - including sending a carrier group to the South China Sea:
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/british-carrier-strike-group...
I can't imagine, given the history between the two countries, that the Chinese are that delighted to have the Royal Navy active in their part of the world again.
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/british-carrier-strike-group...
I can't imagine, given the history between the two countries, that the Chinese are that delighted to have the Royal Navy active in their part of the world again.
When they are ready to do so I'm pretty sure that the Chinese Navy will send an aircraft carrier visit Russia (Murmansk, St Petersburg, or Kaliningrad) and they will make sure to sail through the Channel. Or maybe they will just 'patrol' the North Atlantic. Two can play that game.
A Chinese destroyer already sailed through the Channel in 2019 on its way to an event in St Petersburg.
At the end of the day the UK of the 21st century cannot keep up with the China of the 21st century. The Chinese economy is already 6x times larger than the UK's, with a population 20x larger. At some point the Chinese Navy will be able to align 10 aircraft carriers for every British Navy one if they want to.
A Chinese destroyer already sailed through the Channel in 2019 on its way to an event in St Petersburg.
At the end of the day the UK of the 21st century cannot keep up with the China of the 21st century. The Chinese economy is already 6x times larger than the UK's, with a population 20x larger. At some point the Chinese Navy will be able to align 10 aircraft carriers for every British Navy one if they want to.
Quite - I wasn't meaning to imply that I thought it was a good idea!
Even if what you say is true (it isn't) the world does NOT want major armed conflict between the two major powers. There would be a spillover of conflict, and major economic impacts.
Eh, I would count this just as some people not being comfortable with the social changes happening.
If you look at most of the pop culture that comes out from East Asia, the typical male archetype seems to be gentle, boyish looking men who are chivalrous and act cute at the same time. Typical masculine features like beards are generally considered unattractive on males. I guess, some people might not like it.
If you look at most of the pop culture that comes out from East Asia, the typical male archetype seems to be gentle, boyish looking men who are chivalrous and act cute at the same time. Typical masculine features like beards are generally considered unattractive on males. I guess, some people might not like it.
I'm no expert on anime, but the two big examples I'm familiar with, Sword Art Online and Demon Slayer both feature many masculine adult characters[1], but usually in a mentor or antagonist role. The protagonists are literally boys, who by definition are less masculine than grown men.
[1] The Legendary Hero Bercouli in SAO and Sakonji Urokodaki in Demon Slayer are two that immediately spring to mind.
[1] The Legendary Hero Bercouli in SAO and Sakonji Urokodaki in Demon Slayer are two that immediately spring to mind.
> So far we seem to be mostly ignoring this yet-soft development, maybe because the idea of having a Cold War 2.0 with a major industrial power is really uncomfortable.
The big question is: what can we do, really? The media in the West are quite frank about what is going on: China is a totalitarian state with all consequences. The politicians, though, seem terrified and bend over backwards in order not to offend the red dragon. There are small exceptions but in general China freaks out whenever anyone significant meets the Dalai Lama, for example.
A good example is Prague. Czechia is a tiny country in Central Europe with pro-China central government. However, the local government of its capital has a more free attitude and Beijing is getting furious each time the major of Prague meets the dissidents and so on. But most politicians in most countries are far less brave. Also they may realize the stakes are higher and higher.
The big question is: what can we do, really? The media in the West are quite frank about what is going on: China is a totalitarian state with all consequences. The politicians, though, seem terrified and bend over backwards in order not to offend the red dragon. There are small exceptions but in general China freaks out whenever anyone significant meets the Dalai Lama, for example.
A good example is Prague. Czechia is a tiny country in Central Europe with pro-China central government. However, the local government of its capital has a more free attitude and Beijing is getting furious each time the major of Prague meets the dissidents and so on. But most politicians in most countries are far less brave. Also they may realize the stakes are higher and higher.
There are a lot of things we can do, but that requires the EU, the US and China's neighbors to work together. It requires US to have a vision for countering China's growing sphere of influence. Unfortunately, the US is content to let China grow into the void that the US has left as it abdicates its role as superpower. The EU isn't fit to function as a counterweight to China.
I say all this as an EU citizen. For all its faults, the US is the one ally we have that could possibly coordinate an appropriate response (no, not military - financial, political and social, but also military if need be) and it's a tragedy that the US is just ... giving up.
I say all this as an EU citizen. For all its faults, the US is the one ally we have that could possibly coordinate an appropriate response (no, not military - financial, political and social, but also military if need be) and it's a tragedy that the US is just ... giving up.
It's a complex topic, and I sympathize with what you're saying but I think it's less a case of giving up and more of the US trying to benefit off of China's increasing dominance, combined with genuine laissez faire philosophy. I think that's changing now a bit but it's hard to say where it's going, especially in going from Trump to Biden.
I dont see this going anywhere.Most of China can be pushed to dark ages by a confident and experienced black ops (Mossad?).
Most of China's power is in its coastal densely populated cities that are not possible to defend in any meaningful way.
Most of China's power is in its coastal densely populated cities that are not possible to defend in any meaningful way.
Or more simply and less conspiracist, this is a mix of conservative values, public health (people are less active and fatter), and historical memory of what happened to them in the last 200 years (i.e. they should be able not to take any sh*t and to defend themselves).
Constantly bringing up how your country was wronged 200 years ago is the dictionary definition of nationalism.
First, "the last 200 years" is not the same as "200 years ago".
Second, history is what shapes cultures and people's views of the world. You cannot discuss and hope to make sense of what's going on in a country without understanding its history. The BLM movement, arguments about links to slavery, China's international policy, just to name a few, are all stemming directly from events that occurred in the past and continue to have an impact to this day.
And lastly, there is nothing wrong with nationalism when it means defending your own people and sovereignty of your own country. That's what all countries do and in fact is the basis of the existence of countries.
Second, history is what shapes cultures and people's views of the world. You cannot discuss and hope to make sense of what's going on in a country without understanding its history. The BLM movement, arguments about links to slavery, China's international policy, just to name a few, are all stemming directly from events that occurred in the past and continue to have an impact to this day.
And lastly, there is nothing wrong with nationalism when it means defending your own people and sovereignty of your own country. That's what all countries do and in fact is the basis of the existence of countries.
>And third, there is nothing wrong with nationalism
Welp, I'm out.
Welp, I'm out.
You might finish reading the sentence...
It’s oddly comforting to know Chinese social media and the influencers it creates seem to be just as insufferable as they are in the U.S.
People are people.
Superficially, it seems crazy.
That said, testosterone rates actually have been falling for a while now [1][2], and 'that's a thing'. Scientifically.
Also, we spend way too much time indoors as a species and there may possibly be a gendered aspect to it.
If we can talk all day about special needs, issues and accommodation for women, there's not reason we can't do so for men.
Never an athlete myself, and loathing the American focus on Collegiate sports - I've actually come to admire it. Maybe not to the 'they call get full ride' kind of admiration, but rather, a respect for the fact that physical vitality is part of our essential being.
1 hour of PT/sports per day should be standard literally all the way through life: Elementary, HS, College, integrated into the Workplace.
Just getting people moving would fundamentally change so many things. Probably ever aspect of life would improve, and if we want to make it a 'men's issue' I'll bet that rates of ADD, attention span etc. improve, as an unscientific hunch.
Edit: It's not a 'hunch' - physical activity will improve ADD [3], attention span [4].
[1] https://www.icenews.is/2010/05/17/testosterone-levels-decrea...
[2] https://www.reuters.com/article/health-testosterone-levels-d...
[3] https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/019394591664995...
[4] https://www.unh.edu/healthyunh/blog/2013/07/recent-study-tie...
That said, testosterone rates actually have been falling for a while now [1][2], and 'that's a thing'. Scientifically.
Also, we spend way too much time indoors as a species and there may possibly be a gendered aspect to it.
If we can talk all day about special needs, issues and accommodation for women, there's not reason we can't do so for men.
Never an athlete myself, and loathing the American focus on Collegiate sports - I've actually come to admire it. Maybe not to the 'they call get full ride' kind of admiration, but rather, a respect for the fact that physical vitality is part of our essential being.
1 hour of PT/sports per day should be standard literally all the way through life: Elementary, HS, College, integrated into the Workplace.
Just getting people moving would fundamentally change so many things. Probably ever aspect of life would improve, and if we want to make it a 'men's issue' I'll bet that rates of ADD, attention span etc. improve, as an unscientific hunch.
Edit: It's not a 'hunch' - physical activity will improve ADD [3], attention span [4].
[1] https://www.icenews.is/2010/05/17/testosterone-levels-decrea...
[2] https://www.reuters.com/article/health-testosterone-levels-d...
[3] https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/019394591664995...
[4] https://www.unh.edu/healthyunh/blog/2013/07/recent-study-tie...
The BBC article's intro implies that the Chinese government wants to draft more men into the military. But the actual issue has got nothing to do with the military or militarism at all.
At the heart of the issue is the perception that young men lack physical exercise. This government suggestion is receiving a lot of criticism inside China. Chinese netizens don't have anything against encouraging kids to exercise, but they are incensed that it's sold as a way to make boys more manly. https://radiichina.com/masculine-feminization-teenagers/
At the heart of the issue is the perception that young men lack physical exercise. This government suggestion is receiving a lot of criticism inside China. Chinese netizens don't have anything against encouraging kids to exercise, but they are incensed that it's sold as a way to make boys more manly. https://radiichina.com/masculine-feminization-teenagers/
[deleted]
It's quite easy to achieve: have women to be manly for.
One child policy ruined the life of hundreds of millions of men.
One child policy ruined the life of hundreds of millions of men.
Wait, I thought that was already the effect, no? With men outnumbering women by a good margin, surely men would try to "out-man" each other to find a mate?
You can't really out-man other men like we used to in the old days anymore.
(i.e. raid another village, kill the men, take the women)
Nowadays we do things more civilized by posing on social media with gym bods and expensive cars and other displays of sexual fitness. Trying to lure a mate instead of taking one.
Unfortunately, the numbers are what they are: a ~30 million gender imbalance. So however you turn it there's going to be 30 million men without a wife/family no matter what they do. Not a good thing if you want society to remain peaceful.
So they either import more women (via force or promise of a better living standard), or they get rid of the excess men (via war), or they suppress them with heavy policing and entertainment doping until the gender imbalance fades out over the next generation or so.
Nowadays we do things more civilized by posing on social media with gym bods and expensive cars and other displays of sexual fitness. Trying to lure a mate instead of taking one.
Unfortunately, the numbers are what they are: a ~30 million gender imbalance. So however you turn it there's going to be 30 million men without a wife/family no matter what they do. Not a good thing if you want society to remain peaceful.
So they either import more women (via force or promise of a better living standard), or they get rid of the excess men (via war), or they suppress them with heavy policing and entertainment doping until the gender imbalance fades out over the next generation or so.
Well, these things can go either way.
Almost by definition, a manly activity is one where you won't meet many women.
Almost by definition, a manly activity is one where you won't meet many women.
When there are so many men that they know that they will never have a girlfriend or wife in their lives, they stop competing....why go to the gym at that point?
Look good for other dudes? (gay or otherwise) Health and endorphins?
I don't go to the gym for the wife, but she sure appreciates it.
I don't go to the gym for the wife, but she sure appreciates it.
When I lived in a place with so many more guys, I was just depressed, even though I had very high salary. It was a mistake to not change location.
Ah, but if you convince them that the women are in other countries they might be more inclined to join the army.
Or the labour export. Iirc, it was a thing in Pakistan a few years back that the Pakistani govt had to clamp down on because it led to domestic abuse and abandonment in many cases.
Average testosterone levels have been dropping significantly all around the world, so this policy likely wouldn't be the cause of the feminization of men.
Too much Oestrogen in the water supplies perhaps?
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/12/101208125813.h...
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/12/101208125813.h...
[deleted]
That paper reminds me of Connections by James Burke.
High incomes leads to better spending on food leading to more cattle production leading to more soy use and more dairy consumption, which leads to more intake of oestrogen in water, leading to lower testosterone counts in consumers, leading to lower fertility rates.
High incomes leads to better spending on food leading to more cattle production leading to more soy use and more dairy consumption, which leads to more intake of oestrogen in water, leading to lower testosterone counts in consumers, leading to lower fertility rates.
That would only lead to higher oestrogen levels, I suppose.
> One child policy ruined the life of hundreds of millions of men
You’ve got the wrong gender.
You’ve got the wrong gender.
I'm sorry, you are right :(
Killed lots of girl embrios and babies and ruined life of men :(
Killed lots of girl embrios and babies and ruined life of men :(
Yäss! Gung Ho!
https://youtu.be/xhdcnlphz10?t=97
https://youtu.be/xhdcnlphz10?t=97
I wonder what their male to female teacher ratio is.
so.... no to tiktok should do it
[deleted]
The linked notice is titled 关于政协十三届全国委员会第三次会议第4404号（教育类410号）提案答复的函 教师提案〔2020〕475号 http://www.moe.gov.cn/jyb_xxgk/xxgk_jyta/jyta_jiaoshisi/2021...
About the Political Consultative Conference's 13th National Committee's third session, answer to the 4404th proposal (410th on education). Teaching proposal no. 475 (2020)
Yes, no doubts about its ultimate goal indeed.
The answer begins:
您提出的《关于防止男性青少年女性化的提案》收悉，现将涉及教育部业务部分答复如下：
Having received and read your "Proposal on the prevention of the feminization of male youth", the answers to the parts concerning the Ministry of Education are as follows:
(Then there's a bunch of blabla about improving school sports and whatnot, without any references to gender.)
So someone (who?) was concerned about feminization and asked the Ministry of Education to do something about that and they responded.
The BBC seems to have mistaken the title mentioned in the response for a statement of the Ministry of Education's official policy.
Maybe I should submit a "Proposal to replace Google Translate by fluent Chinese speakers" to the BBC so they can publish a headline "BBC to improve its reporting on China" but I'm not holding my breath.