Mischa's Cursed Webring(cursed.lol)
cursed.lol
Mischa's Cursed Webring
https://cursed.lol
97 comments
Doing crazy things with CSS, including animations, has never been easier or more consistent between browsers, and yet creativity in web design has gone down practically to zero these days. I blame mobile, where nobody can seem to escape from the "responsive column of blandly styled content" paradigm.
My theory for why this is is that in the past when the web was arcane and challenging to learn to develop, this actually acted as a filter for people who had a special sort of intellectual curiosity and passion to really push through and make what they wanted to make. It’s great now that the web is so broadly accessible, but now no such filter exists, so truly creative sites are fewer and further between.
The web wasn't that arcane or challenging to develop for - plenty of people without that much deep technical know-how managed with raw HTML and CSS, copy and paste and w3schools. Although most people weren't that creative, either.
If anything, web development is far more arcane and challenging now. No one just writes HTML, CSS or JS in a text editor anymore, the bare minimum expectation is to use complex frontend frameworks and NPM and compile everything from other languages. Compared to the sprawling, byzantine nightmare of modern web development, JQuery plugins were a breeze.
I think, it's simply the case that the web has matured, and more people are concerned with content than the superficiality of quirky presentation nowadays. Just as it's possible for an author to publish a book without knowing typesetting or running their own press, one can publish to the internet without knowing even the basics of HTML, CSS or JS.
And of course the web has coalesced around a set of standard layouts and visual language, as any media paradigm inevitably does, mostly because it has done so around a few standard frameworks. But then let's be honest, most Geocities sites kind of looked the same, too.
If anything, web development is far more arcane and challenging now. No one just writes HTML, CSS or JS in a text editor anymore, the bare minimum expectation is to use complex frontend frameworks and NPM and compile everything from other languages. Compared to the sprawling, byzantine nightmare of modern web development, JQuery plugins were a breeze.
I think, it's simply the case that the web has matured, and more people are concerned with content than the superficiality of quirky presentation nowadays. Just as it's possible for an author to publish a book without knowing typesetting or running their own press, one can publish to the internet without knowing even the basics of HTML, CSS or JS.
And of course the web has coalesced around a set of standard layouts and visual language, as any media paradigm inevitably does, mostly because it has done so around a few standard frameworks. But then let's be honest, most Geocities sites kind of looked the same, too.
I mean, this is easy to say, but I don’t think anyone in their right mind would willingly go back to 90s era web development of they had a choice. JS was a pitiful version of its current self - and good luck debugging it without browser debugging tools. CSS was done primarily with tables. Iframes were used everywhere. The state of the art web development IDE was notepad++. Browser inconsistencies were rampant and I hope you enjoy working around browser bugs because IE5 is ridden with them.
See, the thing about all the modern development infra we have is that it wasn’t just invented for fun - it solves real problems. Jquery was created to smooth over browser inconsistencies. Webpack was made so that when you import 20 JS files they don’t all clobber each other’s namespaces (ok, there’s a bit more to it, but bear with me here). NPM was made so that you can install dependencies without having to hunt down the JS download on Google.
This whole thing of looking at the past with rose colored glasses is a bit too easy to take too far.
See, the thing about all the modern development infra we have is that it wasn’t just invented for fun - it solves real problems. Jquery was created to smooth over browser inconsistencies. Webpack was made so that when you import 20 JS files they don’t all clobber each other’s namespaces (ok, there’s a bit more to it, but bear with me here). NPM was made so that you can install dependencies without having to hunt down the JS download on Google.
This whole thing of looking at the past with rose colored glasses is a bit too easy to take too far.
Modern web development has also created its share of problems. Needing to import 20 JS files and manage namespaces isn't a problem anyone had before the JS community decided every "library" had to consist of only a single function rigged to an entire test suite with an arbitrarily deep dependency tree. Sure, finding libraries, adding them in script tags and uploading them directly to the server (or linking to a CDN) wasn't as convenient as using a package manager, but vast sections of the web didn't stop working because a repo got pulled or because the SPOF repository for the language went down.
And then you have compile-to-js languages like Typescript, and the entire paradigm of "javascript as bytecode" which, for all of their benefits in adding safety, also added exponential complexity. Frontend frameworks with their own unique paradigms that generate HTML and CSS entirely in JS, and ignore the separation of concerns the web is actually built around.
All of these have their place and their value, but the fact that "vanilla JS" is coming back as a trend might be a sign that things have strayed a bit too far in the wrong direction.
And then you have compile-to-js languages like Typescript, and the entire paradigm of "javascript as bytecode" which, for all of their benefits in adding safety, also added exponential complexity. Frontend frameworks with their own unique paradigms that generate HTML and CSS entirely in JS, and ignore the separation of concerns the web is actually built around.
All of these have their place and their value, but the fact that "vanilla JS" is coming back as a trend might be a sign that things have strayed a bit too far in the wrong direction.
I think it's just two camps. The vanillajs camp is people mostly working on their own, who can't imagine what all that overhead is for. The other camp is people mostly working at large corporations, who can't imagine any other way to deal with hundreds of engineers checking in code every day.
No idea why this has been down voted, I think there’s a lot of truth in it. That said I don’t agree with the conclusion ;) I think there _was_ a more interesting an varied texture to the web back in the day. A feeling of experimentation and a freedom from the pressure to produce something “professional”. It feels like the rules of the medium are much more rigid now and to break them you must choose to do so deliberately rather than just kind of having to because of the lack of existing convention.
So, where are 2021's version of 1990's web?
indie games
I mean, by the time we find it it won’t be niche and arcane any more :-)
Maybe roblox?
Maybe roblox?
Crappy remixes on TikTok and Instagram that can’t hold a candle to the hay day of YTMND?
The other poster is probably right, the indie game scene is pretty prolific with jams and remixes and has more collaboration than most early web phenomena.
The other poster is probably right, the indie game scene is pretty prolific with jams and remixes and has more collaboration than most early web phenomena.
I think that may be nostalgia talking. Some of the stuff my younger cousins send me from tiktok is genuinely hilarious - IMO definitely superior to ytmnd though YMMV.
It's the same reason why most modern books are bland streams of text set in brushed-up typefaces, while medieval manuscripts were written in whimsical hands and richly adorned with full-color illustrations and drop caps decorated over the top.
Back in 1995, a web page was an experimental medium, with very few experts in the field, and few businesses seeing it as a key asset. It could took long to develop, it could look fancy and whimsical, and there were few other sites to compare to, with the same properties. The chance for a web user to encounter something unusual was higher, because there was very little properly usual yet.
Today the web is the main medium, with a lot of standardization which comes from the need to be readable, accessible, look clean, and take as short to develop as possible. The consumer expects the same: simple, familiar packaging, easy access to the content which is usually a piece of text or a picture. This leaves especially little room for fancy on small-screen mobile devices. The web is not more of a place for artistic expression than newspapers were in 1970. Whimsical and fancy designs exist, but they are relatively rare and special-purpose, promo or art pages.
Back in 1995, a web page was an experimental medium, with very few experts in the field, and few businesses seeing it as a key asset. It could took long to develop, it could look fancy and whimsical, and there were few other sites to compare to, with the same properties. The chance for a web user to encounter something unusual was higher, because there was very little properly usual yet.
Today the web is the main medium, with a lot of standardization which comes from the need to be readable, accessible, look clean, and take as short to develop as possible. The consumer expects the same: simple, familiar packaging, easy access to the content which is usually a piece of text or a picture. This leaves especially little room for fancy on small-screen mobile devices. The web is not more of a place for artistic expression than newspapers were in 1970. Whimsical and fancy designs exist, but they are relatively rare and special-purpose, promo or art pages.
I think I had enough "creativity" from webdesign. Video backgrounds, fading,or reappearing text sections, absurd colour schemes,or overengineered SPAs. I'd happily trade all that shiny wrapping paper into something a bit more boring and consistent.
Absolutely agree. There are so many creative but obnoxious design patterns caused by a need to distinguish a brand or the designers seeing themselves as artists more than engineers. Coolness over usability is commonplace, but it's not a good mantra to follow, and it's genuinely refreshing to see stuff like https://www.nngroup.com/ that is usable and functional on all devices, as boring as it may look.
But it doesn't have to be this way. Look at https://play.date/ or https://tokio.rs/, functional yet interesting. Tokio.rs in particular has the best implementation of one of the worst patterns in the modern web: sticky content that changes when you scroll. It's a great visual aid in this case, but becomes annoying quickly when overused.
But it doesn't have to be this way. Look at https://play.date/ or https://tokio.rs/, functional yet interesting. Tokio.rs in particular has the best implementation of one of the worst patterns in the modern web: sticky content that changes when you scroll. It's a great visual aid in this case, but becomes annoying quickly when overused.
Webdesign is no different to physical product design or architecture. These are difficult fields and very few get it right, like Dieter Rams. Design, as a subject,is actually so far from art,even though,as you mentioned, some try to mix them together for some 'cool' results that almost always end up being ridiculously inconvenient to use.
yes, blame the SEO mantra of "mobile-first" which has poisoned products that are "mobile-rarely".
All behold the latest in web design: https://www.cameronsworld.net/
What a rabbit hole I went down. Ending at warrens world with the most delightfully poignant tribute to coco his little dog that passed away.
Teared up reading it.
So much love and work went into these homepages.
Teared up reading it.
So much love and work went into these homepages.
I came back tr gonna post that! Amazing site, if you like it you should try hypnospace outlaw.
I'm completely in awe of this, it's amazing.
Marvelous. Peak GeoCities has been achieved.
This is actually a thing of beauty.
This soothes my soul.
Had to throw http://durgasoft.com/ 's hat into the ring too for the garish web design subset.
Bleach my eyes
It's like the Ling's Cars [1] of Java and Python software development.
[1] https://www.lingscars.com/
[1] https://www.lingscars.com/
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I actually still occasionally see ads or videos for Indian programming courses, that look close to that.
Considering that visual austerity is a distinct feature of Western visual design and seems foreign to Chinese/Indian/Middle-Eastern tradition—I sometimes wonder what Eastern people consider as examples of stupid tasteless Western design.
Considering that visual austerity is a distinct feature of Western visual design and seems foreign to Chinese/Indian/Middle-Eastern tradition—I sometimes wonder what Eastern people consider as examples of stupid tasteless Western design.
Working in web hosting, I've hosted many sites like this and had to deal with some of the people who've made them. And I have to say that while it's fun to point and laugh at the websites, there are a few of these in the ring that are borderline troubling. It is clear that their authors are suffering from some serious mental illnesses and at the very least some major delusions.
I recall a case years ago where I hosted a site for someone who appeared to be a paranoid schizophrenic. They called in one day complaining that we'd moved one of their HTML tables to the left by a few pixels. Another one was a website by somebody who was "exposing" their local municipality for doing things like charging for water and "illegally incarcerating" the website owner, who viewed their stints in a mental hospital as an attack to their freedom.
On the other hand, Lings Cars made it on this webring, and it's well deserved. That site is awesome and horrible at the same time, and it's designed to make us gawk at it for fun.
I recall a case years ago where I hosted a site for someone who appeared to be a paranoid schizophrenic. They called in one day complaining that we'd moved one of their HTML tables to the left by a few pixels. Another one was a website by somebody who was "exposing" their local municipality for doing things like charging for water and "illegally incarcerating" the website owner, who viewed their stints in a mental hospital as an attack to their freedom.
On the other hand, Lings Cars made it on this webring, and it's well deserved. That site is awesome and horrible at the same time, and it's designed to make us gawk at it for fun.
At what point does appreciating content produced by the mental ill become exploitation of them? Gene Ray was clearly mentally ill, but few had any qualms about enjoying the WTF quality of the Time Cube website.
Some of the classic twentieth-century art by outsider artists like Adolf Wölfli was in large part the consequence of their illness, and yet it is appreciated nevertheless, so couldn’t the same persist today for the mentally ill’s analogous creations on the internet?
Some of the classic twentieth-century art by outsider artists like Adolf Wölfli was in large part the consequence of their illness, and yet it is appreciated nevertheless, so couldn’t the same persist today for the mentally ill’s analogous creations on the internet?
I think the main difference is whether what they are putting out is something beautiful and artistic, or... not. You do make an interesting point that I had not considered however. At what point does it stop becoming the ramblings of a mental patient and start becoming art? I don't know. But I do know that the sampling of what I saw on is web ring wasn't art ;)
Edit: It becomes art when the person creating it declares it as art. Otherwise it's just sad. Thank you @mulmen for brining this point out.
Edit: It becomes art when the person creating it declares it as art. Otherwise it's just sad. Thank you @mulmen for brining this point out.
Surely intent matters? If a person claims to be an artist then we can appreciate their art. If a percon claims to be an investigative journalist but actually doesn't understand the concept public utilities then I'm not sure we should treat that as entertainment.
Yes I agree with this.
Some club at my university organized a talk by him (the time cube guy) and a friend invited me. I ended up walking out because it felt exploitative and the organizer chased me down and argued with me. To this day I’m not sure if it was harmless fun (the man wanted an audience after all, and I hope got some of the money from the tickets) or cruel.
> who viewed their stints in a mental hospital as an attack to their freedom.
In fairness, this is an attack on their freedom.
In fairness, this is an attack on their freedom.
Indeed.
I don't have a better solution, but there has to be a better treatment for paranoid schizophrenia than kidnapping them, strapping them to a bed, transporting them in a windowless vehicle to a location they've never been, forcibly drugging them, and letting them wander around with other psychotics for a couple days.
I don't have a better solution, but there has to be a better treatment for paranoid schizophrenia than kidnapping them, strapping them to a bed, transporting them in a windowless vehicle to a location they've never been, forcibly drugging them, and letting them wander around with other psychotics for a couple days.
The current solution in California is to fire them and strip them of health insurance, wait for them to go broke, then dump them on the streets to live with other psychotics, and worse.
A few days at the funny farm is far more humane than this, even if a sane person occasionally gets stuck in a 24 hour medical hold.
A few days at the funny farm is far more humane than this, even if a sane person occasionally gets stuck in a 24 hour medical hold.
It's 72 hours and can be delayed if there are not enough doctors for you to be seen. YMMV thats FL, US
This is extremely well done. Academically, I look forward to any attempt at criticizing this project. It's a tricky thought experiment.
What is it exactly? There is no editorial to go with this. I love the time machine feel though. Hello tables!
I've been trying to make a list of "cursed" websites - some of them are really deep and vast and demonstrate some sort of twisted brain that was behind each site. Some are just bizarre. Most have cursed vibes.
You can spend hours on a lot of them just digging up fucked up shit.
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Cool, going to check it out later!
If 'cursed' is derogatory, then it seems unfair/mean to call sites cursed just for not keeping up with current web design trends. Shouldn't we be better than that?
Not exactly. "Cursed" in modern slang is more like something weird and unsettling in a way that's probably funny and may or may not actually be bad.
Your description sure sounds derogatory.
"Cursed" comes from meme culture. It's not derogatory.
I'm not really sure what's so "cursed" about this website? http://www.hytechshotz.com/default.asp
The website design is pretty bad but based off of the OP saying "most of them are really deep and demonstrate some sort of twisted brain that was behind each site" I'm not really sure why this one is on the list.
The website design is pretty bad but based off of the OP saying "most of them are really deep and demonstrate some sort of twisted brain that was behind each site" I'm not really sure why this one is on the list.
I don’t see how any of these is cursed really. I think it is fair to assume that most of these websites are the product of work and passion from individuals having put some time and effort into it.
One can perceive them as ugly, outdated, funny, or even pointless (I don’t, but it’s not the point). But using a domain like cursed.lol and a vocabulary like “twisted brain” or “fucked up shit” (OP’s comment) is a bit too much on the side of the mockery / disrespect / immaturity and doesn’t belong here IMO.
One can perceive them as ugly, outdated, funny, or even pointless (I don’t, but it’s not the point). But using a domain like cursed.lol and a vocabulary like “twisted brain” or “fucked up shit” (OP’s comment) is a bit too much on the side of the mockery / disrespect / immaturity and doesn’t belong here IMO.
This is it. I was expecting something qyestionable, or even mildly awful. Instead, they are quaint, and full of life. They are outdated only because of current UI trends, not because they are objectively outdated.
I miss the soul and work that went into sites of the 1990s where it was dense information with a point, not thousands of pixels filled with nothing.
I miss the soul and work that went into sites of the 1990s where it was dense information with a point, not thousands of pixels filled with nothing.
Exactly my feeling: this is the opposite of the hacker-in-the-best-sense appreciation for things done out of passion and personal dedication, even when they're strange or seemingly useless. This tears down without offering anything better.
Respectfully disagree. I take delight in observing these artifacts, it's unfortunate you cannot.
Sorry if my comment wasn’t clear, I actually do enjoy browsing these websites. My concern is about the mocking tone I perceive from OP and the webring curator (not sure it’s the same person).
I don't know how many of the cursed sites you've visited, but in addition to rudimentary styling, some of the sites contain some rather disturbing content.
Hence the "fucked up shit," and "twisted mind," comments. I don't think they are inappropriate or disrespectful.
I don't think tone policing is appropriate or beneficial.
Hence the "fucked up shit," and "twisted mind," comments. I don't think they are inappropriate or disrespectful.
I don't think tone policing is appropriate or beneficial.
I'd say that one gets in for having photos with "2019-2020", so clearly still being updated, but for feeling so very much like it's from 1999. Choosing to lead with an unremarkable aerial photography shot, and something about the saturation in the images, is so 1990s, not just the design. @aol.com contact email. The name is reminiscent of "icy hot stuntaz". The whole package is very special.
I think the “Buddy” and “sample” product images put it over the top.
Overlooking the ol' bezel trick,
High saturation text on a black background does not cancel out the overuse of high saturation colors. This looks like a flyer for Hempfest 2021.
(Why do pot smokers enjoy higher saturation than the rest of us? Has anyone studied this?)
High saturation text on a black background does not cancel out the overuse of high saturation colors. This looks like a flyer for Hempfest 2021.
(Why do pot smokers enjoy higher saturation than the rest of us? Has anyone studied this?)
Blood in the eye area, and half-mast eyelids
Do you think it's similar to fancy clothes in Kenya, where bold contrasts and high saturation seem to be the norm? Not because they're stoned, but because, as I learned as a child, if you spend all day in bright light and go inside you can't see shit because your photoreceptors aren't bouncing back quickly enough.
Some of these sites are just dope, like this 3d graphing software site
https://cursed.llolo.lol/dpgraph.com/
But have hideous design :D
But have hideous design :D
As it turns out, these are real sites that got scraped. http://www.dpgraph.com/index.html works, and it looks like the software is free to download now. I’m too much of a chicken to try though...
A lot of these sites don't support HTTPS, so they can't be iframed without being mirrored
I can't recall the last time I made a noise opening a web page.
This one sounded somewhere between a hiccup and vomiting. Kind of a 'Hulp!'
This one sounded somewhere between a hiccup and vomiting. Kind of a 'Hulp!'
Maybe like finding a Prada store in the middle of nowhere near marfra Texas... Either it's a cover or an artwork, or possibly someone That twisted at Prada headquarters decide that it was a good location
Apparently that's just an art installation
https://inspiredimperfection.com/adventures/prada-marfa/
https://inspiredimperfection.com/adventures/prada-marfa/
If you decide to go to https://www.lingscars.com/ do yourself a favor and right click the site and select "View Source".
Love this, there's so much personality in these. No JS cruft, no cosmetics, no filler, just cool (and in this case very weird) vibes.
How far the web strayed from this, it's a shame really. The soul has left :/
How far the web strayed from this, it's a shame really. The soul has left :/
I would disagree - the Web hasn't strayed, it's just gotten bigger. A lot more people on for a variety of reasons. If you look closely, you can still find creativity. For example, search up "digital gardens"
Mhh I suppose you're right, I should go on the hunt for this sort of stuff again. Not the small, homely thing of the 90s anymore.
Also of interest:
https://www.cameronsworld.net/
https://wiby.me/
https://www.cameronsworld.net/
https://wiby.me/
Cursed indeed. I am enjoying the web 1.0 insanity of the Atari parts maker for 8-bit machines. Somewhere there is a person still making a bit of cash from 1985 tech.
https://cursed.llolo.lol/best-electronics-ca.com/
https://cursed.llolo.lol/best-electronics-ca.com/
Best Electronics is a pretty amazing place. Here's an interview with the guy who runs it: https://ataripodcast.libsyn.com/antic-interview-5-the-atari-...
on the topic of web rings, check out this little webring I built for github profile readmes a few months back:
https://octo-ring.com/
Here's what the widget looks like on your profile -- there are some wild markdown table hacks to make the buttons individually clickable: https://github.com/veggiedefender/
https://octo-ring.com/
Here's what the widget looks like on your profile -- there are some wild markdown table hacks to make the buttons individually clickable: https://github.com/veggiedefender/
Wow, the greatest website of the ’90s that never was, it even has a Catsape browser embedded somewhere. Found that by coincidence — clicking around in this thing can have surprising results. It is also the first site that managed to get me this warning from Safari: “This webpage is using significant energy. Closing it may improve the responsiveness of your Mac”. I recommend the site for its entertainment value but make sure your battery is charged!
let's not forget about https://ytmnd.com/
Interesting project, however it seems it has a certain bias against a peculiar demographic, unfortunately this isn't surprising at all. Culture war permeates everything.
Could you expand on this? I can't figure out what you're getting at.
I really didn't understand this comment, and you didn't expand, so I assumed that it must have been something obvious and I was too insensitive to notice. So I did a survey of the first 20 sites it gave me and try to categorize by "demographic/culture." Here's what I got:
Or maybe you decided they were making fun of your demographic in particular, and confirmation bias led you to see only that? Are you seeing "culture war" where there isn't any, or am I still blind?
Unknown (math, science etc) 6
Asian 4
Christian 2
Middle America 2
Goth 1
Democrat 1
Irish 1
EU 1
Swiss 1
English 1
Or maybe you decided they were making fun of your demographic in particular, and confirmation bias led you to see only that? Are you seeing "culture war" where there isn't any, or am I still blind?
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Culture war does permeate everything, including any time you see something that's perfectly balanced demographically, which is how you know it was contrived and is probably an ad or other obsequious sanitized corporate communication designed not to be cancelable.