CutiePi – A Raspberry Pi 4 tablet(cutiepi.io)
cutiepi.io
CutiePi – A Raspberry Pi 4 tablet
https://cutiepi.io/
175 comments
A friend & I have a dream of building an E-reader based on the 10" ED097OC4 E-ink display that was built into the Kindle DX and can now be had for around 30€ (old stock?).
Most parts of the stack are conceptually figured out:
A Pine64 SOPINE module (comparable to the Raspi CM, but cheaper), a Linux DRM driver based on tinydrm (https://github.com/notro/tinydrm) or gud (https://github.com/notro/gud/), as panel driver either vroland's ESP32 based EPDiy (https://hackaday.io/project/168193-epdiy-976-e-paper-control...) or a custom FPGA solution.
What's really missing and I just can't figure out is how to get a touch input layer on there. Because the format is so weird there's just nothing available off the shelf at a fitting size. Cutting a larger one to size doesn't seem feasible (or is it?), perhaps the most DIYable would be an infrared solution like early kindles and old larger touch screens have, but on that topic there's a distinct lack of information (best I could find is this EEVblog video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnZ9KfJNjRQ).
A button-only navigation would really suck, since even KOReader (the absolute minimum application to run, preferable would be a full Wayland desktop) doesn't seem to be compatible with that.
I figure this is the best place to ask: Does anyone have an idea how this could be solved? Also, would anyone be interested in E-reader kits like that?
Most parts of the stack are conceptually figured out:
A Pine64 SOPINE module (comparable to the Raspi CM, but cheaper), a Linux DRM driver based on tinydrm (https://github.com/notro/tinydrm) or gud (https://github.com/notro/gud/), as panel driver either vroland's ESP32 based EPDiy (https://hackaday.io/project/168193-epdiy-976-e-paper-control...) or a custom FPGA solution.
What's really missing and I just can't figure out is how to get a touch input layer on there. Because the format is so weird there's just nothing available off the shelf at a fitting size. Cutting a larger one to size doesn't seem feasible (or is it?), perhaps the most DIYable would be an infrared solution like early kindles and old larger touch screens have, but on that topic there's a distinct lack of information (best I could find is this EEVblog video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnZ9KfJNjRQ).
A button-only navigation would really suck, since even KOReader (the absolute minimum application to run, preferable would be a full Wayland desktop) doesn't seem to be compatible with that.
I figure this is the best place to ask: Does anyone have an idea how this could be solved? Also, would anyone be interested in E-reader kits like that?
There's https://www.crowdsupply.com/e-radionica/inkplate-6 in this vein already.
This looks great! Except that the sizes are not my favourite... a 6" one and a 9.7" one.. I think the ideal size for a small tablet/ebook reader is 8". Also I dislike the huge bezels of the devices, I wonder if it would be possible to make with minimal bezels.
This is one of my main motivations. I also hate bezels. Unfortunately there's just no touch layer that would allow small ones :(
If you want an 8" device there's a fairly good market around 300€ already, with my favorite being the Kobo Forma and the Kindle Oasis also being worth a look (along with some others). Both have fairly small bezels on 3 sides and a thick one on one for holding.
My dream would look about like those devices, but yeah - the touch panel issue. I can't imagine a decent UX just based on buttons yet. One possible way forward is finding/making/retrofitting a reader app that is buttom navigable and maybe having a thinkpad nib as a fallback, but I'm not too sure about that since it'd compromise the UX fairly significantly, I'd say.
If you want an 8" device there's a fairly good market around 300€ already, with my favorite being the Kobo Forma and the Kindle Oasis also being worth a look (along with some others). Both have fairly small bezels on 3 sides and a thick one on one for holding.
My dream would look about like those devices, but yeah - the touch panel issue. I can't imagine a decent UX just based on buttons yet. One possible way forward is finding/making/retrofitting a reader app that is buttom navigable and maybe having a thinkpad nib as a fallback, but I'm not too sure about that since it'd compromise the UX fairly significantly, I'd say.
There is a new 8" tablet with e-reader and note taking capability with color e-ink from Onyx [1].
[1]https://onyxboox.com/boox_nova3color
[1]https://onyxboox.com/boox_nova3color
All the best with your endeavor, If it works out consider an external E-ink display for the next project as there's a needgap[1] for it.
[1] https://needgap.com/problems/43-affordable-e-ink-large-exter... (Disclaimer : It's my platform).
[1] https://needgap.com/problems/43-affordable-e-ink-large-exter... (Disclaimer : It's my platform).
I would go with after market replacement parts for an existing tablet like
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000899975285.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000899975285.html
Let people use a usb or bluetooth keyboard/touch surface
There is the m5paper[1] that is around $80 with shipping. It uses an esp32 and is arduino compatible, and the provided libraries are pretty good.
[1] https://docs.m5stack.com/#/en/core/m5paper
[1] https://docs.m5stack.com/#/en/core/m5paper
Oh my gosh. I've spent hours looking for something like this, and was never able to find one. Unfortunately they're out of stock right now, but I'll be ordering one as soon as I can. Thanks!
I once bought a small E-Paper display [1] for a Raspi, and was very disappointed with the refresh rate, it was useless.
I wanted to use it to display room temperature and electrical information like home power consumption, solar panel power generation and stuff like that, and expected a refresh rate of around 1 update per second.
Having it blink and do stuff for around 7 seconds just to redraw the next frame made me send it back and replace it with a small LCD touchscreen [2].
[1] Waveshare 1.54 Inch E-Paper Raw Display Panel(B) V2,200x200 Resolution,3.3v [ https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B074P32F9B ]
[2] ELEGOO Display 3.5" Zoll TFT LCD Touch Screen Monitor 480x320 für Raspberry Pi mit Allen Daten und Touch Pen (SPI Schnittstelle) [ https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B01JRUH0CY ]
Edit:
Look at all that needs to happen just to update the minute counter as well as the temperature and humidity. It certainly is faster than the colored display I bought, but still, do you really want such a flashing display? https://youtu.be/v9sNzmtMSXo?t=164
I wanted to use it to display room temperature and electrical information like home power consumption, solar panel power generation and stuff like that, and expected a refresh rate of around 1 update per second.
Having it blink and do stuff for around 7 seconds just to redraw the next frame made me send it back and replace it with a small LCD touchscreen [2].
[1] Waveshare 1.54 Inch E-Paper Raw Display Panel(B) V2,200x200 Resolution,3.3v [ https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B074P32F9B ]
[2] ELEGOO Display 3.5" Zoll TFT LCD Touch Screen Monitor 480x320 für Raspberry Pi mit Allen Daten und Touch Pen (SPI Schnittstelle) [ https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B01JRUH0CY ]
Edit:
Look at all that needs to happen just to update the minute counter as well as the temperature and humidity. It certainly is faster than the colored display I bought, but still, do you really want such a flashing display? https://youtu.be/v9sNzmtMSXo?t=164
This apparently is about driving the ePaper correctly to produce intended image and not just using it as dumb framebuffer. The demo firmware for above mentioned M5Paper seems to have some support for intelligent driving of the display, sadly this is mostly not exposed to the (currently marked as alpha) MicroPython implementation for the device, where it only supports full (ie. "blinking") updates of rectangular regions.
Waveshare has some displays with really nice refresh rates, I bought a 6" one with ~300ms refresh rate: https://www.waveshare.com/6inch-HD-e-Paper-HAT.htm
Pity it deteriorates with ultraviolet rays
> "I love this concept, I just really want one with an e-ink screen instead."
How close would a hand-crank mechanism be to driving an e-ink tablet for a useful amount of time? A quick look at a clockwork crank-wind-up torch shows it has 300mAh battery and 30hrs of blinking SOS LED on a full charge, and they claim 1min of winding gives it 2hrs of blinking LED, so roughly 20mAh per minute of winding. How much computing can one do in 20mAh?
"Clockwork radio" and no-battery crystal radios must be quite low power, and one approach for e-ink screens is to only update a small changed area of screen at once. The FireBeetle ESP32 can deep-sleep on 0.011mA [1] and reference is at 39mA. Maybe 1min of clowkwork winding could drive it at reference power for 30 mins, and half-power for an hour?
What kind of computing UX/UI/OS could there be with primarily audio feedback[2] using a low power earphone, e-Ink style screen updated only on demand?
I carried on this thought to "treadle powered computer" thinking of a flywheel, and found someone has built one: https://scoraigwind.co.uk/2010/07/treadle-powered-computer/ which seems to be generating around 6 Watts and running a laptop.
[1] https://diyi0t.com/reduce-the-esp32-power-consumption/
[2] http://emacspeak.sourceforge.net/ - EMACSPEAK computing interface for the blind. Also ref the classic `ed` editor which doesn't print unless you ask, because it was from the days of printing on paper
How close would a hand-crank mechanism be to driving an e-ink tablet for a useful amount of time? A quick look at a clockwork crank-wind-up torch shows it has 300mAh battery and 30hrs of blinking SOS LED on a full charge, and they claim 1min of winding gives it 2hrs of blinking LED, so roughly 20mAh per minute of winding. How much computing can one do in 20mAh?
"Clockwork radio" and no-battery crystal radios must be quite low power, and one approach for e-ink screens is to only update a small changed area of screen at once. The FireBeetle ESP32 can deep-sleep on 0.011mA [1] and reference is at 39mA. Maybe 1min of clowkwork winding could drive it at reference power for 30 mins, and half-power for an hour?
What kind of computing UX/UI/OS could there be with primarily audio feedback[2] using a low power earphone, e-Ink style screen updated only on demand?
I carried on this thought to "treadle powered computer" thinking of a flywheel, and found someone has built one: https://scoraigwind.co.uk/2010/07/treadle-powered-computer/ which seems to be generating around 6 Watts and running a laptop.
[1] https://diyi0t.com/reduce-the-esp32-power-consumption/
[2] http://emacspeak.sourceforge.net/ - EMACSPEAK computing interface for the blind. Also ref the classic `ed` editor which doesn't print unless you ask, because it was from the days of printing on paper
Seconded. I looked into this at the start of the Pandemic -- there are a few crap ones on Amazon. I couldn't get them to work with my phone. I'd love to just have a set of web bookmarks and be able to load those or send it a URL from my device or even a page out of Notion.
My main use case: when I'm following a recipe, my devices go to sleep in a minute or two and it's a huge pain in the ass to wake it up and type in passwords while covered in sauce or flour or raw meat or whatever. I've started printing (or writing) recipes on blank paper just so I can move them around the kitchen and not worry about things going to sleep on me.
The press would eat it up with snark (Silicon Valley invents recipe cards. ha ha ha ha ha so clever!), but I don't want a rolodex full of cardboard that I have to stick in a drawer somewhere and sort/manage.
My main use case: when I'm following a recipe, my devices go to sleep in a minute or two and it's a huge pain in the ass to wake it up and type in passwords while covered in sauce or flour or raw meat or whatever. I've started printing (or writing) recipes on blank paper just so I can move them around the kitchen and not worry about things going to sleep on me.
The press would eat it up with snark (Silicon Valley invents recipe cards. ha ha ha ha ha so clever!), but I don't want a rolodex full of cardboard that I have to stick in a drawer somewhere and sort/manage.
It seems like the simple solution is just to change your phone’s sleep settings when you know you’re going to be cooking
Because there's nothing I love more than fiddling with obtuse settings menus just to have to do it again in couple of hours. This would maybe be acceptable if there was a charm/quick toggle like they do with Do Not Disturb, but I'd rather print it or write it than change the settings and then remember to change them back later.
[deleted]
I am surprised phones (I'll only speak for Android) don't make it easier to say "don't automatically sleep for the next 30 minutes."
I know individual apps can turn off sleep. The browsers ought to also be better at recognizing that you're looking at a recipe, and keep the phone from falling asleep.
I know individual apps can turn off sleep. The browsers ought to also be better at recognizing that you're looking at a recipe, and keep the phone from falling asleep.
My phones have a quick tile called "Caffeine" that lets you disable sleep for 5/10/30 minutes. I guess this might be limited to custom ROMs, but it absolutely exists.
Remarkable tablets are pretty hackable. They run Linux and let you ssh in and install othwr software by default. The screen is also a decent size and touch sensitive.
after reading https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26531119 I searched the page for Remarkable. It could be the Linux tablet of our collective dreams if enough developers notice it...
There are already some very skilled people active in the homebrew community. It runs Qt applications and up until recently, the company also published the developer toolchain (which will hopefully return soon).
Most of the device is Open Source and the compliance section gives you the root password of the device that has ssh via usb enabled by default.
There are also initial (unpolished) solutions for encrypting files with gocryptfs.
Most of the device is Open Source and the compliance section gives you the root password of the device that has ssh via usb enabled by default.
There are also initial (unpolished) solutions for encrypting files with gocryptfs.
When do the Pixel Qi / One Laptop Per Child (OLPC) / XO-PC screen patents expire? :) Why not both? :)
Update: oh holy shit, John Gilmore was a Pixel Qi investor, bought the patents to help the company close cleanly rather than go bankrupt, and licenses the patents with an generally-available Defensive Patent License[1]! What a story!!! Thanks John! Pixel Qi is from ~2010, so he's better than halved the time it took to get this amazing technology legally accessible to the world. The gotcha is that it's a somewhat "copy-left" gnu like license, so anyone unwilling to open some of their own patents for use (or not holding patents) is going to have to go to John to get these built, until these patents expire.
Just a quick word on the Pixel Qi screen, it's a LCD screen with a normal transflective mode, but it can also switch into a reflective black and white mode that works great outdoors. 10" 1024x600 screens go for a bit over $100 today.
[1] https://goodereader.com/blog/electronic-readers/the-rise-and...
Update: oh holy shit, John Gilmore was a Pixel Qi investor, bought the patents to help the company close cleanly rather than go bankrupt, and licenses the patents with an generally-available Defensive Patent License[1]! What a story!!! Thanks John! Pixel Qi is from ~2010, so he's better than halved the time it took to get this amazing technology legally accessible to the world. The gotcha is that it's a somewhat "copy-left" gnu like license, so anyone unwilling to open some of their own patents for use (or not holding patents) is going to have to go to John to get these built, until these patents expire.
Just a quick word on the Pixel Qi screen, it's a LCD screen with a normal transflective mode, but it can also switch into a reflective black and white mode that works great outdoors. 10" 1024x600 screens go for a bit over $100 today.
[1] https://goodereader.com/blog/electronic-readers/the-rise-and...
It's a big problem to get active matrix monochrome displays these days, let alone reflective ones.
License or not, if nobody bothers to make them it's still not going anywhere :'(
I'd love to have one too, I live in Spain and it would really help with outdoor use in the sun.
I'd love to have one too, I live in Spain and it would really help with outdoor use in the sun.
At EI-2030, we're working on developing an e-ink laptop.
We have two working groups. One's creating an e-ink laptop, and the other is using a low-power CPU/MCU with an e-ink display.
If interested, check us out at the EI-2030 forum or join our Discord channel.
https://forum.ei2030.org/c/working-groups/26 https://discord.com/invite/nnxKnxh
We have two working groups. One's creating an e-ink laptop, and the other is using a low-power CPU/MCU with an e-ink display.
If interested, check us out at the EI-2030 forum or join our Discord channel.
https://forum.ei2030.org/c/working-groups/26 https://discord.com/invite/nnxKnxh
Yes! I want a Home Assistant panel in my house but don't want to hack together some old Android monstrosity.
I did something similar, Raspberry Pi with e-ink display hooked up with HA API etc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0sHtZqs8Go
Me too. I'd like to have a cheap HA panel in each room. This CutiePi looks promising. I hope HA community will quickly support it and create some nice solutions.
A few months ago I built a E-ink picture frame, which displays an image that was taken today but x years ago. The picture frame now stands on my desk and already brought back some really nice memories.
In case anyone is interested: https://mindfulbytes.io/
In case anyone is interested: https://mindfulbytes.io/
I like this function on google devices to spark memories of old travel trips.
Without the Lena photo the side would be even cooler ;). https://www.nature.com/articles/s41565-018-0337-2
Without the Lena photo the side would be even cooler ;). https://www.nature.com/articles/s41565-018-0337-2
Your comparison is wrong. Kindle isn’t being sold with sustainable profit. A hardware company couldn’t operate with that margin. Plus Kindle has a huge volume. Not really comparable with an e-ink tablet what makes latter even more expensive.
You can get for that money 7,5” e-paper hat for Raspberry Pi. It goes for 71,99€ on German Amazon.
You can get for that money 7,5” e-paper hat for Raspberry Pi. It goes for 71,99€ on German Amazon.
They aren't saying that it needs to be $80. Just not 10x that price.
Well a kindle is actually $110 when it's not ad supported and boox is selling a comparable device for $185. So very similarly priced.
I would suspect the boox actually has more capable hardware because it needs to run android 10. I don't care enough to check though.
I would suspect the boox actually has more capable hardware because it needs to run android 10. I don't care enough to check though.
Kindle is not just subsidised by ads, the business model is based on the fact that you are going to buy ebooks. I wouldn't be surprised if the non-ad-supported Kindle was also being produced at a loss, just like the ad-supported model.
You are right that $185 might be a more realistic pricing, but that's a 68% increase over the price of the $110 Kindle so I wouldn't say that they are similarly priced.
You are right that $185 might be a more realistic pricing, but that's a 68% increase over the price of the $110 Kindle so I wouldn't say that they are similarly priced.
The stopgap solution for this is pascalw's kindle-dash[1]. I set it up on my jailbroken kindle and now it displays some headlines, my google calendar events, and the weather (via OpenWeatherMap API)
Last time it was on HN: [2]
[1] https://github.com/pascalw/kindle-dash
[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25939042
Last time it was on HN: [2]
[1] https://github.com/pascalw/kindle-dash
[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25939042
I got the BOOX Note 3 and it somewhat dooes what I need it to. It’s
mind boggling to me, however, that nobody has tapped into this market yet. I think Lenovo even made a laptop which had one e-ink as well as a regular display, but used the e-ink display in place of the keyboard. That just felt like they were rubbing it in tbh.
I have the note 3 as well and it would be rather perfect for many things if it would have a SD card slot.
I'm sure it has been stated before but I do wonder why e-ink displays remain still so out of reach even though the sort of parents that were encumbering them have expired? It really does seem that anything that involves e-ink panels comes with a huge markup.
Here's your answer:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26143779
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26143779
The CLEARink product in that thread looks _amazing_. Super excited to see that come to market. I'd buy a dozen of those displays for pairings with Pi's around the house.
I think that the initial Eink tech wasn't really suited for a general purpose computer. There have been recent advancements that fixed a lot of the issues, but this technology is still new and expensive.
Why don't you repurpose cheap e-book readers, such as Kobo, which run Linux? https://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/Debian_Linux_on_a_Kobo
or BQ Cervantes: https://github.com/bq/cervantes
or you can root the Nook e-reader running Android
or you can check out the Open Book Project: https://github.com/joeycastillo/The-Open-Book
Inkplate 6 looks good to me on paper, though I haven't seen a real one yet. https://www.crowdsupply.com/e-radionica/inkplate-6
The Inkplate 6 works pretty well - I am using it for my digital picture frame. The only disappointing thing for me is, that they haven't released the actual source files (Eagle, Kicad, etc..) for the hardware yet. [1]
[1] https://github.com/e-radionicacom/Inkplate-6-hardware/issues...
[1] https://github.com/e-radionicacom/Inkplate-6-hardware/issues...
Consider the Ares Lifebook $289, 7.8in and runs Android :) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0814RYMNF
Why the downvote? It's a decent eink tablet.
You can buy a 7.5” e-ink hat for the RPI for around 60$.
I can find some for $150-250. Can you share links to less expensive options?
Look at waveshare's website. Get one with a HAT if the description says it needed, and always check out the refresh rate, it varies wildly (from ~0.5 secs to 15+ secs)
I think they are Waveshare's supplier, you might even get cheaper/more specific stuff: https://www.good-display.com/product/6/
I think they are Waveshare's supplier, you might even get cheaper/more specific stuff: https://www.good-display.com/product/6/
Just wanted to drop a link here to a page I maintain tracking as many Pi CM4-based projects as I've found: https://pipci.jeffgeerling.com/boards_cm (including the CutiePi).
The Compute Module 4 is the first revision (similar to the regular 4 model B) that is fast enough to actually be a practical/sensible replacement for a great deal of use cases where traditionally low power PC hardware would be preferred (though often more expensive).
The one common theme though is the soldering of the hirose connectors is a bear to do manually.
The Compute Module 4 is the first revision (similar to the regular 4 model B) that is fast enough to actually be a practical/sensible replacement for a great deal of use cases where traditionally low power PC hardware would be preferred (though often more expensive).
The one common theme though is the soldering of the hirose connectors is a bear to do manually.
Jeff's YouTube channel is also a delight[1], totally worth subscribing to!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCR-DXc1voovS8nhAvccRZhg
---
[1] Red Shirt Jeff did not make me say this, honest.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCR-DXc1voovS8nhAvccRZhg
---
[1] Red Shirt Jeff did not make me say this, honest.
Some day there might be an actual reason for sawing the board in half...
The faq about battery concerns me a bit. "Achieved about 5 hours of standby time."
Reporting standby time seems like a question dodge.
Reporting standby time seems like a question dodge.
It's worth noting that their "standby time" measurement includes the screen being on at 1/2 brightness and maintaining a Wifi connection.
The processors in the Raspberry Pi don't support power management, so as far as I know, it's impossible to sleep a Raspberry Pi. The best you can do is to suspend to disk, at which point a battery life test would be relatively meaningless.
The processors in the Raspberry Pi don't support power management, so as far as I know, it's impossible to sleep a Raspberry Pi. The best you can do is to suspend to disk, at which point a battery life test would be relatively meaningless.
I see a sleep/wake button, but my Raspi 400 has no such feature, and googling about whether this can truly be done are inconclusive. 5h standby time suggests the sleep isn't a very deep one.
It might be hibernation, as in putting RAM on disk and shutting down.
Erm ... then the "standby time" would be forever.
I thought standby time is the device being fully on, but you're not doing anything on it (no video playing, no browsing, etc).
Only if the supporting electronics (whatever's watching the sleep/wake button) have zero power consumption.
It looks like they're using an STM32 for this, which I believe can be made to draw approximately zero power if it's just waiting for a button to be pressed.
It looks like they're using an STM32 for this, which I believe can be made to draw approximately zero power if it's just waiting for a button to be pressed.
Saw that too. Standby time usually means when it is not in use but can be woken up instantly. That's a far cry from actual usage time. :-| (Compare that too typical tablets where the standby time might be several days or longer, and usage time also much more than 5 hours. Or phones.)
I was more wondering about the display brightness value given. Is the display on during standby time measurements?
Two-hundred bucks is basically "impulse purchase" territory, but I'm nevertheless struggling to see the use case here.
If you're into maker projects with Raspberry Pis, then I'm not sure what this does for you. It's a Pi already built into a consumer device. Not seemingly a platform for new maker projects.
If you want a tablet with a Linux kernel buried in there somewhere, then there's probably a thousand Android options with better specs at the price point.
Just kinda seems like a tablet with with limited apps and terrible battery life, being marketed to Pi fans who think having "Pi" in its name will make it a good conversation piece.
If you're into maker projects with Raspberry Pis, then I'm not sure what this does for you. It's a Pi already built into a consumer device. Not seemingly a platform for new maker projects.
If you want a tablet with a Linux kernel buried in there somewhere, then there's probably a thousand Android options with better specs at the price point.
Just kinda seems like a tablet with with limited apps and terrible battery life, being marketed to Pi fans who think having "Pi" in its name will make it a good conversation piece.
Their software and hardware are open source. Far cry from alternative android tablets. Either way, building a tablet, even based on a raspberry pi, is no easy feat.
Why is it so hard though?
I guess the problem is always power management, and I guess writing drivers for the appropriate hardware?
I still fail to understand why there isn't more open source projects like this using android, since android is open source.
I mean using linux on a desktop is easily feasible, but "owning" a tablet or a phone seems like it's so difficult.
I guess the problem is always power management, and I guess writing drivers for the appropriate hardware?
I still fail to understand why there isn't more open source projects like this using android, since android is open source.
I mean using linux on a desktop is easily feasible, but "owning" a tablet or a phone seems like it's so difficult.
In reality, "open source" means next to nothing if you don't get any documentation... which Broadcom remains hesitant to provide.
At least for the Mediatek stuff there's some leaked datasheets and programming manuals as well as board layouts and such.
At least for the Mediatek stuff there's some leaked datasheets and programming manuals as well as board layouts and such.
I’ve been thinking about my kid’s first computer and something in this ballpark is interesting. More hackable than iPad, not quite the complexity of a laptop. Not sure this one is quite right’ especially compared to the Pi400, but nice to have the tablet form factor.
Pi400 is a fun thing. How much more powerful is the Pi400?
In theory the cm4 should match the 400: they're both based on the BCM2711 chip. There'll be differences in revision, though, and the 400 has a thumping great heatsink so it basically never throttles.
RAM-wise the CM4 they're using in the CutiePi has 2GB, while the 400 has 4GB.
RAM-wise the CM4 they're using in the CutiePi has 2GB, while the 400 has 4GB.
I was really hoping this would be a "bring your own pi" solution rather than a build in one. If it were BYOP then it'd be great for portable devices like field readings (hydroponic nutrient readings around the greenhouse, wilderness env readings, etc) or taking retropi gaming on the go. I feel like having it built in dampens that portability aspect, especially since RPIs are often reused for various projects.
There are exist laptop shells for your pi
One of the first things I bought for my Pi was a battery HAT and with VNC on, I use my iPad as its screen, and a BT keyboard from an old Mac. It’s the best of both worlds. I can take the Pi anywhere and work on some Python projects. I went out in nature and it is quite cool to have your tools of the trade with you. Perhaps this fits in that kind of -maybe niche- use case.
Can you please add details on what hardware you bought and what battery life you have achieved? I want to build something similar.
Sure! I bought this HAT : https://www.pishop.us/product/pijuice-hat-a-portable-power-p...
and I also bought the AUKEY model pb-t3 16000mAh as an external battery, as it was recommended for this setup by people on the Raspberry forums. You can charge the HAT 4 times, or your Ipad.
The battery lasts long enough, I run some services and some other tools and the HAT alone will last you a day or so. If you do something like video encoding, it will burn quicker obviously. Think phone battery levels of juice with the HAT.
The battery lasts long enough, I run some services and some other tools and the HAT alone will last you a day or so. If you do something like video encoding, it will burn quicker obviously. Think phone battery levels of juice with the HAT.
I have a use for this for sure. I got two 400 models for my 3 and 4 yo and installed all the Linux educational software. Recently I started working on my own educational games for them in C and having something like this I can carry around the house to code on vim while I watch them would be super handy.
A surface tablet with a linux image is underrated IMO. They are good and capable hardware and can be had for cheap. I don’t understand why PI is used for a tablet when its purpose is a standalone device with IO capabilities or for experimenting. I went on this path and bought a few linux first devices and while fun they did not perform even close to an consumer device which with the right image (linux) it could become a very good daily driver.
I'm writing educational games for the PI, so it makes sense for me to get a device with the same hardware to work on. Also I can test builds without taking over one of my kid's devices
I'm intrigued, which model Surface with which Linux distro would you recommend in the "impulse buy" territory?
https://github.com/linux-surface/linux-surface/wiki/Supporte... has a matrix of Surface devices and how well they work with Linux.
If 200$ is in impulse purchase territory I need to do a reality check with my wallet and humanity
The pitch of this project is not great imo.
Not sure saying it's an open source table is any better but calling it a tool for keeping projects on the go is also just weird.
Not sure saying it's an open source table is any better but calling it a tool for keeping projects on the go is also just weird.
I’ve been following this project for a while. I truly hope they succeed, but as always some caution is warranted about crowdfunding projects.
They ran a Kickstarter last year with a target ship date of late November, but I’m not sure how many orders they’ve filled. None of my friends who ordered have received theirs.
Their open source repositories are available here: https://github.com/cutiepi-io
Note this isn’t a tablet in the traditional sense. Think of it as a Raspberry Pi with external touchscreen, camera, and battery folded into a tablet-like form factor. They’ve done some cool things with software and hardware to bring it all together, but it needs to be viewed as hackable open source hardware and not a competitor to a cheap Android tablet from Amazon.
They ran a Kickstarter last year with a target ship date of late November, but I’m not sure how many orders they’ve filled. None of my friends who ordered have received theirs.
Their open source repositories are available here: https://github.com/cutiepi-io
Note this isn’t a tablet in the traditional sense. Think of it as a Raspberry Pi with external touchscreen, camera, and battery folded into a tablet-like form factor. They’ve done some cool things with software and hardware to bring it all together, but it needs to be viewed as hackable open source hardware and not a competitor to a cheap Android tablet from Amazon.
The reason they're late is because they switched from the Raspbarry Pi 3 compute module to the (then recently announced/released) Raspberry Pi 4 compute module very late into the project.
I would have preferred if they had shipped what they had, instead of delaying the project for that upgrade, but it seems most backers preferred to get the shiny new thing, even if it meant the project was delayed.
I would have preferred if they had shipped what they had, instead of delaying the project for that upgrade, but it seems most backers preferred to get the shiny new thing, even if it meant the project was delayed.
I think if they had stuck to the CM3 this would have lived a short life of "Oh, this is neat, but ugh so sluggish and can't really use it" to now it's an actually viable alternative to low powered laptop/tablet as you can upgrade it to the cm4 with 8gb ram
I love this idea, but I would like something more ambitious. This is a interesting addition to the stable of Linux Tablets - with the Pine Tab that is one and a half?
Thing is I am desperate to have a tablet with decent capabilities (and at about $500 price point) that is not a consumer device, and I need it nine months ago. Too late now - up to my eyebrows in Apple iPad nonsense.
I have been working on a application that uses a dedicated tablet (iPad FFS, why does Apple hate developers so much? I spent thirty years away from them - how fantastic they used to be... I digress) I would really like to have complete control of the tablet that the users are out using - controlling millions and millions of dollars of assets and revenue - not have a consumer device with all the cruft that implies.
Whilst it is possible to strip capabilities off of a consumer device, as a developer I am not in control of it. The only confidence I can have in it is based on Apple's engineering, and as a developer I have a inside look at that, and it is not what it was (or seemed to a younger me thirty years ago).
Nice start, too little, too late - for me.
Thing is I am desperate to have a tablet with decent capabilities (and at about $500 price point) that is not a consumer device, and I need it nine months ago. Too late now - up to my eyebrows in Apple iPad nonsense.
I have been working on a application that uses a dedicated tablet (iPad FFS, why does Apple hate developers so much? I spent thirty years away from them - how fantastic they used to be... I digress) I would really like to have complete control of the tablet that the users are out using - controlling millions and millions of dollars of assets and revenue - not have a consumer device with all the cruft that implies.
Whilst it is possible to strip capabilities off of a consumer device, as a developer I am not in control of it. The only confidence I can have in it is based on Apple's engineering, and as a developer I have a inside look at that, and it is not what it was (or seemed to a younger me thirty years ago).
Nice start, too little, too late - for me.
> Thing is I am desperate to have a tablet with decent capabilities (and at about $500 price point) that is not a consumer device
Reading your rant, I have no idea what your problem or requirements actually are. Why not buy $350 Surface Go tablets and put together a Linux image that runs on it?
Reading your rant, I have no idea what your problem or requirements actually are. Why not buy $350 Surface Go tablets and put together a Linux image that runs on it?
Because: (a) The money spent on the OS (b) The bios is not open so cannot do that (c) impossible to gain the confidence of bosses doing this, it has to come from a manufacturer (d) the expense of doing that for each device is not trivial, if done even half way properly.
I do not think that is a very good suggestion!
I do not think that is a very good suggestion!
Would love to see a bullet point about repairability somewhere. That's one of the most compelling points about indie projects like this for me.
Besides swapping the Pi out I'd imagine there's very little repair ability. PCB with tiny components, custom screen, etc.
Considering all the hardware and software is open source the repairability will be high, obviously you will need some tools to do it.
Tools are easy. But if a company can't supply replacement parts then your SOL with any repairs.
And the ability to run (an open flavor of) Linux.
> we plan to support Raspberry Pi OS desktop and apps via XWayland.
I am not familiar with the Linux Ecosystem, so I don't understand what this really means. Can someone please explain? Will any Linux apps run on it directly or do developers have to create separate apps just for the platform?
I am not familiar with the Linux Ecosystem, so I don't understand what this really means. Can someone please explain? Will any Linux apps run on it directly or do developers have to create separate apps just for the platform?
It's just a Pi running ARM64 Linux.
The default OS image that ships on the devices has their own touch UI shell which currently runs on EGLFS, which is basically an alternative to X or Wayland meant for embedded devices. So as it currently stands you can't run normal Linux apps in the default OS.
They're supposedly porting it to Wayland which will allow normal Linux applications to run within their custom shell. Their shell is a relatively straightforward Qt Quick application so it shouldn't take a huge amount of work to port. Though the most recent commit was a little over a year ago[1] so who knows when it'll actually get finished.
[1] https://github.com/cutiepi-io/cutiepi-shell/tree/wayland
The default OS image that ships on the devices has their own touch UI shell which currently runs on EGLFS, which is basically an alternative to X or Wayland meant for embedded devices. So as it currently stands you can't run normal Linux apps in the default OS.
They're supposedly porting it to Wayland which will allow normal Linux applications to run within their custom shell. Their shell is a relatively straightforward Qt Quick application so it shouldn't take a huge amount of work to port. Though the most recent commit was a little over a year ago[1] so who knows when it'll actually get finished.
[1] https://github.com/cutiepi-io/cutiepi-shell/tree/wayland
Yes, Linux apps should run natively.
X is the display server on Linux for decades back, and XWayland is the compatibility layer for it built into the newer display server Wayland.
X is the display server on Linux for decades back, and XWayland is the compatibility layer for it built into the newer display server Wayland.
Looking at the specs [1], I can't help but feel for $200 getting Wifi 4 (N, from 2008) and BT 4.0 (from 2010) leaves me underwhelmed. Maybe it was a cost decision, maybe licensing? Maybe due to power constraints? But damn, Wifi 4 is just objectively terrible and needs obliterating, it's borderline unusable and leaves me worried about the longevity of using such old standards in 2/3 years time (if that's the expecting lifetime of the product)
1: https://shop.cutiepi.io/products/cutiepi-tablet
1: https://shop.cutiepi.io/products/cutiepi-tablet
Probably you will be able to switch raspberry 4 compute module to raspberry 5 when it came out. No guarantee of course but probably slot will be the same.
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Worth noting that WiFi 5 is 802.11ac, which only applies to 5Ghz; any WiFi 5 gear is using 802.11n for 2.4GHz. (Edit: Pi 4 can do 5GHz) One wonders if they skipped doing a 5GHz antenna for cost/space/other reasons.
I'm kind of confused but by research [1] says the CM4 they've selected does indeed support wireless AC and BT 5.0 LE
[1]: https://www.seeedstudio.com/Raspberry-Pi-Compute-Module-CM41...
[1]: https://www.seeedstudio.com/Raspberry-Pi-Compute-Module-CM41...
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I wonder if they just recently decided to go with the CM4 module and failed to update the specs to match. The video shows them using the CM3 module, which does have lesser wifi/bt specs.
There was a previous version of this tablet using the CM3 with wifi/BT hardware on the carrier board, they probably just forgot to update that part of the specs page. The new carrier board does not have wifi so they are definitely using the CM4's onboard wireless hardware.
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Many older Thinkpad Models still have WiFi N, it's not that bad as you describe it.
> But damn, Wifi 4 is just objectively terrible and needs obliterating, it's borderline unusable
Care to elaborate a bit on why ? I have been using n for years at home and at my office without any problems. It seems much faster than b and g which I had before.
Care to elaborate a bit on why ? I have been using n for years at home and at my office without any problems. It seems much faster than b and g which I had before.
Primary issue with N tends to be client density, secondary speed, but really both are related anyways. Also the compute module is single antenna, most N devices were at least 2x2 which doubles the throughput. I.e. expect 100 Mbps half duplex throughput to be a "very good" connection on such a device.
That being said the device actually supports WiFi 5, the page just seems to be out of date. Still only 1x1 though which is the bigger travesty.
That being said the device actually supports WiFi 5, the page just seems to be out of date. Still only 1x1 though which is the bigger travesty.
Wifi 4 is more than fine.
Personally I've been waiting for the CutiePi to use the CM4, and now they have updated the platform I'll probably get one myself.
Having said that it looks like a missed opportunity here for supplying the masses with a Linux device for learning purposes especially in the developing countries during the pandemic or not. I think the best price for this device is USD$100 as promised by the ill fated OLPC laptop project. Perhaps USD$100 is not much by developed countries standard incomes but in most part of developing countries you are very lucky to have USD$100 disposable income at the end of the month (or year) to buy your children a tablet/laptop/computer.
It also interesting to note that the 2019 Galaxy Tab A (without LTE) with similar specs (8", 2 GB RAM, etc) to the CutiePie is probably cost about USD$100 nowadays [1].
The good news is that since CutiePie is based on open hardware system perhaps someone can use the open design to come up with a cheaper version closer to the USD$100 price point[2].
p/s: RPi 400 costs about USD$100 but the fact it does not has a built-in screen limits it impacts on usability department for children
[1]https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_tab_a_8_0_(2019)-976...
[2]https://github.com/cutiepi-io/cutiepi-board
Having said that it looks like a missed opportunity here for supplying the masses with a Linux device for learning purposes especially in the developing countries during the pandemic or not. I think the best price for this device is USD$100 as promised by the ill fated OLPC laptop project. Perhaps USD$100 is not much by developed countries standard incomes but in most part of developing countries you are very lucky to have USD$100 disposable income at the end of the month (or year) to buy your children a tablet/laptop/computer.
It also interesting to note that the 2019 Galaxy Tab A (without LTE) with similar specs (8", 2 GB RAM, etc) to the CutiePie is probably cost about USD$100 nowadays [1].
The good news is that since CutiePie is based on open hardware system perhaps someone can use the open design to come up with a cheaper version closer to the USD$100 price point[2].
p/s: RPi 400 costs about USD$100 but the fact it does not has a built-in screen limits it impacts on usability department for children
[1]https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_tab_a_8_0_(2019)-976...
[2]https://github.com/cutiepi-io/cutiepi-board
There are a lot of people with old tablets in a drawer.. it'd be nice if there was a way to re-purpose those old screens many of which are good quality (e.g. Ipad 2, HP Touchpad, etc). So a new shell would be needed, the new PCB, likely the new battery, so the only real hard part would be the interface between the pi and the screen.
If you just want to reuse the screen, you can get boards on Ebay or AliExpress that have HDMI inputs and can drive original iPad screens. Search for "LVDS HDMI" and you'll find a bunch, mostly based around the RTD2660 chip from Realtek.
This seems like a terrible Nexus 7 for twice the price and launching a decade later? That you have to charge every 5 hours?
Yeah, but you can bet that 10 years later you won't be running obsolete software on it.
What makes you think CutiePi Shell will be maintained that long? Android has withstood the test of time, and although you'd need a custom mod to update your Nexus 7, chances are CutiePi won't live that long.
I miss my nexus 7.
This was a Kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/745629624/cutiepi-raspb...
(I am a backer, but I haven't received mine yet, so don't yet have an opinion on the product)
(I am a backer, but I haven't received mine yet, so don't yet have an opinion on the product)
> EVERYTHING, from the hardware design, firmware, enclosure, all the way to the user interface, is open source.
The cutiepi-enclosure/CutiePi_ID_spec.pdf file is marked as "confidential". Isn't that a little odd?
Except VideoCore? Or has something changed?
Everything this team produces and sells.
This team isn’t involved with the Raspberry Pi team. They’re just using it in their open source product.
This team isn’t involved with the Raspberry Pi team. They’re just using it in their open source product.
This could be nice for a hobby project, as it will probably be much easier to customize and develop for than an Android tablet, but it has no GPIO pins. So I can't just connect it to a breadboard and use it as a console for a prototype. Still, this could be very interesting for certain types of applications.
So no GPIO access or anything? If someone told me they were working on a "Raspberry Pi Project" I would have assumed it would be something taking advantage of that hardware. Do they really only mean they are programming something on Linux?
It has gpio.
Does it?
Board photo from their GitHub shows version 2.0 with GPIO pins [1], but it looks like updated version 2.1 [2] ditched GPIO and put microphone in its place.
[1] https://camo.githubusercontent.com/1e615d82470b7e1dccbd18583...
[2] https://cutiepi.io/assets/pictures/board-detail.png
Board photo from their GitHub shows version 2.0 with GPIO pins [1], but it looks like updated version 2.1 [2] ditched GPIO and put microphone in its place.
[1] https://camo.githubusercontent.com/1e615d82470b7e1dccbd18583...
[2] https://cutiepi.io/assets/pictures/board-detail.png
What I really want: a non toy Crowpi2[0].
[0] https://www.elecrow.com/crowpi2.html
[0] https://www.elecrow.com/crowpi2.html
The pinebook pro is close to that. It has a different software ecosystem, but is also much faster when web browsing than a Pi4: https://www.pine64.org/pinebook-pro/
I want something I can put my favorite arm sbc inside.
You can do that with this laptop, as long as the RockPro64 is your favorite ARM SBC.
(Disclaimer: I think the specs match, but the form factor of the laptop board might vary.)
(Disclaimer: I think the specs match, but the form factor of the laptop board might vary.)
Yes! A good, close-to-pro level Pi based laptop. Brownie points if it includes a SDR.
I have this on my list as TODO for my kids. Mine will be with:
- 30k mAh battery, instead of 5k
- use of RPi HQ camera (12 MP, not 5)
- 8 GB RAM (not 2) & a 1 TB NVMe SSD
Projected price for above components is ~ $350. I want to introduce them to Linux (they do everything on Windows for now) and by exposing the RPi's GPIO to also introduce them to robotics.
- 30k mAh battery, instead of 5k
- use of RPi HQ camera (12 MP, not 5)
- 8 GB RAM (not 2) & a 1 TB NVMe SSD
Projected price for above components is ~ $350. I want to introduce them to Linux (they do everything on Windows for now) and by exposing the RPi's GPIO to also introduce them to robotics.
Is the rear-facing camera connected using standard CSI interface and can it be swapped for RPi HQ Camera?
I sometimes use HQ Cam in the field and for now I use RPi 4 with 7" touchscreen and external power bank so this tablet would be great usability upgrade.
I sometimes use HQ Cam in the field and for now I use RPi 4 with 7" touchscreen and external power bank so this tablet would be great usability upgrade.
This is very cool. I'm really looking forward to the day that I have a Linux tablet with something like an S-Pen. Every year is the Year of Linux on the Desktop, but I'm ready to add tablet and maybe phone to that too.
Title is from the shop page[0], which has lesser information.
[0]: https://shop.cutiepi.io/products/cutiepi-tablet
[0]: https://shop.cutiepi.io/products/cutiepi-tablet
One thing that really bothers me about this is the micro HDMI connector... It's a notoriously bad and unreliable connector and the board looks like it could've fit a full-sized HDMI.
Why do these things always have to be so chunky?
The CM4 is really small, should be possible to make something that's not a brick :) Not as svelte as some Android tablets no, but still better than this.
The CM4 is really small, should be possible to make something that's not a brick :) Not as svelte as some Android tablets no, but still better than this.
A device like this with a smaller display (but still including amplifier, speaker, and battery) might be nice for embedding in a music project. Does anyone know of a board like that?
Saw the handle on this thing and more and more I think someone is going to accidentally reinvent the old OLPC one day
If I buy a tablet with Raspberry Pi inside, I want to use genuine Linux (Ubuntu, Fedora, Arch, Alpine ... not Android) with different apps (terminal, vs code, python, node, java ...) besides the browser. I will type a lot on it. So, I need a bigger screen (bigger than the 12.9" ipad pro) and a keyboard and touchpad like the ipad magic keyboard. I also like to have 4 chargeable USB-C ports on 4 sides of the tablet. I think I'm dreaming :-)
Interesting that the device is thick enough, and the board has room for, an ethernet port ... but does not have one.
Congratulations and good luck.
I wish my kids could take their online classes using this device instead of their phones.
I wish my kids could take their online classes using this device instead of their phones.
Why only two gigs of RAM, I would be open to this if it somehow exposed the GPIO pins.
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How does it compare with a $200 phone performance wise?
They don't seem to have mentioned storage?
MicroSD, I think. Those can be a TB, if you want to pay for it.
Would be nice to load up on movies copied from DVDs I own for the kids to watch on road trips.
Would be nice to load up on movies copied from DVDs I own for the kids to watch on road trips.
I think there's a great niche for "embedded" devices around the home -- weather readout panels, lighting controls, music player, intercom, etc. -- but glowing rectangles mounted to the wall are just too... glowing. E-ink panels is where it's at, and a Raspberry Pi powering it is perfect.
Unfortunately, the only real general-purpose e-ink tablet I'm aware of is the Boox, but their models are all $400-800, which is way too expensive (when similar tech in a Kindle is $80).
All I want is a relatively low-power, low-memory, low-storage touchscreen e-paper tablet (i.e. specs of an old Kindle) that I can run Linux and a WebKit browser on.
And I want them to be cheap enough in bulk so that other companies and startups can build home devices on top of them to resell.