Ask HN: Do not rent and live in basements
45 comments
What you're saying is just plain wrong.
You're not a super old person stuck in a chair that needs to see things from the inside. Go outside.
If you are young, you should view the place you are living as your basecamp to sleep so you can go out and explore your world - not look at it through a window.
Plus basement dwellings tend to be cheaper in which you can use the extra money you save for exploring.
You're not a super old person stuck in a chair that needs to see things from the inside. Go outside.
If you are young, you should view the place you are living as your basecamp to sleep so you can go out and explore your world - not look at it through a window.
Plus basement dwellings tend to be cheaper in which you can use the extra money you save for exploring.
This is a hilarious example of how people push their own worldviews and personalities.
> You're not a super old person stuck in a chair that needs to see things from the inside. Go outside.
You may not enjoy windows, but I do, and lots of other people do as well. I would prefer my home to not be a solid box. I go outside, but sometimes I come home, and when I do I like windows.
> If you are young, you should
Unless you're basing your next words on what the reader's personal interests are, this would be better phrased as "when I was young, I liked to [...]". Your lifestyle goals are obviously different from mine and so your advice has little relevance to my life.
> basement dwellings tend to be cheaper in which you can use the extra money you save for exploring.
Again you take for granted that everyone cares about exploring as much as you do.
> What you're saying is just plain wrong
This would have been better phrased as "What you're saying is not how I live my life". Wouldn't it be more helpful to first learn more about what the reader actually wants, instead of just assuming everyone is the same as you? If the OP is unhappy about living in basements, they probably won't benefit from being told "you're wrong" lol. I'm happiest when I have a comfortable home with big windows and a great view, and when I spend almost all of my waking life inside that home. The pandemic lockdowns were the best times of my life because I didn't have to see people or leave my home. There are people out there who enjoy different lifestyles than you, and conversations would probably be more effective if we started with that in mind.
> You're not a super old person stuck in a chair that needs to see things from the inside. Go outside.
You may not enjoy windows, but I do, and lots of other people do as well. I would prefer my home to not be a solid box. I go outside, but sometimes I come home, and when I do I like windows.
> If you are young, you should
Unless you're basing your next words on what the reader's personal interests are, this would be better phrased as "when I was young, I liked to [...]". Your lifestyle goals are obviously different from mine and so your advice has little relevance to my life.
> basement dwellings tend to be cheaper in which you can use the extra money you save for exploring.
Again you take for granted that everyone cares about exploring as much as you do.
> What you're saying is just plain wrong
This would have been better phrased as "What you're saying is not how I live my life". Wouldn't it be more helpful to first learn more about what the reader actually wants, instead of just assuming everyone is the same as you? If the OP is unhappy about living in basements, they probably won't benefit from being told "you're wrong" lol. I'm happiest when I have a comfortable home with big windows and a great view, and when I spend almost all of my waking life inside that home. The pandemic lockdowns were the best times of my life because I didn't have to see people or leave my home. There are people out there who enjoy different lifestyles than you, and conversations would probably be more effective if we started with that in mind.
> This is a hilarious example of how people push their own worldviews and personalities.
No, this is just how people should live.
> Unless you're basing your next words on what the reader's personal interests are, this would be better phrased as "when I was young, I liked to [...]". Your lifestyle goals are obviously different from mine and so your advice has little relevance to my life.
So then this post is moot so crap on the OP rather than my post
> Again you take for granted that everyone cares about exploring as much as you do.
Well if they want to be stuck inside like a hermit then don't complain about a lack of sunlight - go outside.
> This would have been better phrased as "What you're saying is not how I live my life". Wouldn't it be more helpful to first learn more about what the reader actually wants, instead of just assuming everyone is the same as you? If the OP is unhappy about living in basements, they probably won't benefit from being told "you're wrong" lol. I'm happiest when I have a comfortable home with big windows and a great view, and when I spend almost all of my waking life inside that home. The pandemic lockdowns were the best times of my life because I didn't have to see people or leave my home. There are people out there who enjoy different lifestyles than you, and conversations would probably be more effective if we started with that in mind.
Nope, was phrased correctly. Going outside is not a lifestyle - it's what normal people do.
No, this is just how people should live.
> Unless you're basing your next words on what the reader's personal interests are, this would be better phrased as "when I was young, I liked to [...]". Your lifestyle goals are obviously different from mine and so your advice has little relevance to my life.
So then this post is moot so crap on the OP rather than my post
> Again you take for granted that everyone cares about exploring as much as you do.
Well if they want to be stuck inside like a hermit then don't complain about a lack of sunlight - go outside.
> This would have been better phrased as "What you're saying is not how I live my life". Wouldn't it be more helpful to first learn more about what the reader actually wants, instead of just assuming everyone is the same as you? If the OP is unhappy about living in basements, they probably won't benefit from being told "you're wrong" lol. I'm happiest when I have a comfortable home with big windows and a great view, and when I spend almost all of my waking life inside that home. The pandemic lockdowns were the best times of my life because I didn't have to see people or leave my home. There are people out there who enjoy different lifestyles than you, and conversations would probably be more effective if we started with that in mind.
Nope, was phrased correctly. Going outside is not a lifestyle - it's what normal people do.
> No, this is just how people should live
You can say that all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that it's an opinion. I think people should live far apart from each other and definitely not in cities, but saying that won't do anything to change your opinion either.
> Well if they want to be stuck inside like a hermit then don't complain about a lack of sunlight - go outside.
You seem incredibly upset that some people enjoy being indoors. You also write as if windows and doors don't exist. Enjoying the indoors and an outside view at the same time is fundamental to human nature, as shown by thousands of years of windows. If anything, there is more evidence to say that your opinion is wrong, that humans shouldn't live with windows.
> Going outside is not a lifestyle - it's what normal people do.
Normal people also go back indoors lol, and normal people enjoy windows when they're inside. I can't begin to imagine why you take it so personally that somebody would dare to want an apartment with windows. I won't be responding further but I hope you enjoy your chosen way of life
You can say that all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that it's an opinion. I think people should live far apart from each other and definitely not in cities, but saying that won't do anything to change your opinion either.
> Well if they want to be stuck inside like a hermit then don't complain about a lack of sunlight - go outside.
You seem incredibly upset that some people enjoy being indoors. You also write as if windows and doors don't exist. Enjoying the indoors and an outside view at the same time is fundamental to human nature, as shown by thousands of years of windows. If anything, there is more evidence to say that your opinion is wrong, that humans shouldn't live with windows.
> Going outside is not a lifestyle - it's what normal people do.
Normal people also go back indoors lol, and normal people enjoy windows when they're inside. I can't begin to imagine why you take it so personally that somebody would dare to want an apartment with windows. I won't be responding further but I hope you enjoy your chosen way of life
> You can say that all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that it's an opinion. I think people should live far apart from each other and definitely not in cities, but saying that won't do anything to change your opinion either.
Everyone has opinions, but OP's is in the minority and some opinions are less valid than others - you can't hide behind an opinion.
> You seem incredibly upset that some people enjoy being indoors. You also write as if windows and doors don't exist. Enjoying the indoors and an outside view at the same time is fundamental to human nature, as shown by thousands of years of windows. If anything, there is more evidence to say that your opinion is wrong, that humans shouldn't live with windows.
I enjoy being indoors just as much as outdoors - doesn't mean I'm a hermit. Windows are fine. But who cares if you don't have them when you're young and should be grinding.
> Normal people also go back indoors lol, and normal people enjoy windows when they're inside. I can't begin to imagine why you take it so personally that somebody would dare to want an apartment with windows. I won't be responding further but I hope you enjoy your chosen way of life
They do! I'm not taking it personally. You and OP seem to think living in a basement is not ok. You're young - life is not perfect - get out of your house.
My chosen way of life is the right way.
Everyone has opinions, but OP's is in the minority and some opinions are less valid than others - you can't hide behind an opinion.
> You seem incredibly upset that some people enjoy being indoors. You also write as if windows and doors don't exist. Enjoying the indoors and an outside view at the same time is fundamental to human nature, as shown by thousands of years of windows. If anything, there is more evidence to say that your opinion is wrong, that humans shouldn't live with windows.
I enjoy being indoors just as much as outdoors - doesn't mean I'm a hermit. Windows are fine. But who cares if you don't have them when you're young and should be grinding.
> Normal people also go back indoors lol, and normal people enjoy windows when they're inside. I can't begin to imagine why you take it so personally that somebody would dare to want an apartment with windows. I won't be responding further but I hope you enjoy your chosen way of life
They do! I'm not taking it personally. You and OP seem to think living in a basement is not ok. You're young - life is not perfect - get out of your house.
My chosen way of life is the right way.
Absolutely. I lived in a basement apartment for a couple of years right after college and it was great. It was inexpensive, it met my needs, and it allowed me to save a lot of money for the next stage of my life.
Remote working happens, and its adoption increased during the pandemic.
Some lifestyles may not need change to live in such places, for some some room for improvement may exist, and for others you will get some damage anyway.
And, of course, you should take into account country, city, culture and so on to see if that fits for you and there.
You can use the extra money inside too, like, I don't know, pictures or screens showing nature, fish bowls, furniture and so on, if you have to stay there for too much time anyway. But maybe it may be a better investment to use what you save to go to somewhere else better by some definition, if you can't change too much how depressing it is for you.
Some lifestyles may not need change to live in such places, for some some room for improvement may exist, and for others you will get some damage anyway.
And, of course, you should take into account country, city, culture and so on to see if that fits for you and there.
You can use the extra money inside too, like, I don't know, pictures or screens showing nature, fish bowls, furniture and so on, if you have to stay there for too much time anyway. But maybe it may be a better investment to use what you save to go to somewhere else better by some definition, if you can't change too much how depressing it is for you.
This is true. I don't understand the downvotes.
Nothing got me out of my apartment like living in a crappy place.
Though I can imagine that it can wear you down along with other things that may be going on in your life, at which point perhaps it's time to change things up in a big way, like moving, to reset your disposition and find new experiences.
10 years in a place you despise seems like one of those points.
Though I can imagine that it can wear you down along with other things that may be going on in your life, at which point perhaps it's time to change things up in a big way, like moving, to reset your disposition and find new experiences.
10 years in a place you despise seems like one of those points.
Yes, BUT: COVID.
The last few years have been significantly worse for out-of-home adventuring. Yes the parks exist, yes there's tons of outdoor stuff you can do. But the baseline "go to the grocery and passively see other human beings" fell of a cliff. Basements don't help with that.
Also, something something vitamin D?
I dunno. I spent a lot of the Pandemic working out of my basement. I did not enjoy it at all. I'm making fairly large & expensive changes to avoid it in the future.
The last few years have been significantly worse for out-of-home adventuring. Yes the parks exist, yes there's tons of outdoor stuff you can do. But the baseline "go to the grocery and passively see other human beings" fell of a cliff. Basements don't help with that.
Also, something something vitamin D?
I dunno. I spent a lot of the Pandemic working out of my basement. I did not enjoy it at all. I'm making fairly large & expensive changes to avoid it in the future.
While I'm inclined to agree - I wonder why you are still in a basement if you're renting?
Surely the benefit of renting is the ability to quickly change living environment as you want, rather than stay somewhere you're unhappy for ten years?
Surely the benefit of renting is the ability to quickly change living environment as you want, rather than stay somewhere you're unhappy for ten years?
This sort of assumes one lives someplace where rents are cheap. If you rented that basement apartment in the first place, it's a pretty good sign you were in need of somewhere extremely cheap... And in markets like NYC where you need a minimum of 4x the monthly rent just to move in, it can be hard to climb out of the basement (both metaphorically and literally)
Ah got you. I live in the Scottish countryside where property is cheap. Forgot about insane city prices.
Depending on the zoning laws it might be legal for the landlord to rent the house to two families, so they might only be renting the (finished) basement with limited rights to using amenities like the garage and kitchen.
Not OP, but a few things come to mind:
1) Possibly to decrease coats of living?
2) Location might not have much better to offer? (Dunno how likely?)
3) Social situation (family, friends, niche industry?)
1) Possibly to decrease coats of living?
2) Location might not have much better to offer? (Dunno how likely?)
3) Social situation (family, friends, niche industry?)
Some people have no choice. In NYC, basement apartments are the only units you can find for under $1000/month. If you're an immigrant new to the US, if you're trying to find your footing after a tragedy, or if you're a new graduate looking for your first job after school-- it works as a (hopefully temporary) solution.
Lived in a basement apartment as a child for a decade. I came out fine. But yes, would certainly not recommend if there are alternatives.
Lived in a basement apartment as a child for a decade. I came out fine. But yes, would certainly not recommend if there are alternatives.
Why is moving out of that city not a choice?
Maybe you have job opportunities that don’t exist outside the city. Maybe you have family or community there.
It's not a realistic option for many living paycheck to paycheck. Hunting for a job in other cities is potentially expensive when in person interviews are required - most employers will not pay travel costs (let alone relocation expenses), and there's the opportunity cost of hours not worked at a current job. Many employers engage in resume discrimination where resumes with anything but local phone numbers or addresses get thrown out. Even if you do land a gig elsewhere, the costs of locating a new place to live, of moving, of potentially breaking a lease...are all above what many in the working class can reasonably afford. And all of the above becomes more complicated if partners and/or children are involved.
Also, people don't exist in a vaccuum. Many are grounded in certain places because of familial obligations. Others - particularly recent immigrants in places like NYC - are tied to a local ethnic or expatriate community that they rely on for social and emotional support.
Also, people don't exist in a vaccuum. Many are grounded in certain places because of familial obligations. Others - particularly recent immigrants in places like NYC - are tied to a local ethnic or expatriate community that they rely on for social and emotional support.
Yes, I think maybe some people underestimate how important natural sunlight is for physical and mental health.
I own a house but my remote work space is at the basement. There's a small window but it's quite dark and cold here still. Not ideal but way better than coding in the kids' room as I did still year ago.
Also, it is more private, or personal. I don't know what word to use but you can work uninterrupted and that's very nice.
Many years ago I worked for a "Megacorp" and our team was in the basement of one of the buildings on their corporate campus. We joked about working with the mushrooms.
One day, some other engineers from a Norwegian company came to visit, looked around at our spaces and were astounded. They said that this would be illegal in Norway - they said workplaces in Norway were required to have windows!
Even when living above-ground, pay attention to how much natural light you will receive. I spent years living in apartments with windows facing North, and it was depressingly cold and dark even in sunny California. When I finally moved somewhere with windows facing South, the difference was astounding. Even better if you can get a corner unit with windows on the south and east sides. Of course it will take longer to find housing with ample natural light, and you can expect to pay a premium for it, but I think it is worth it.
That being said, I prefer to have my office on the North side of a building, as there is less glare to deal with on my monitor, and the temperature is more consistent.
That being said, I prefer to have my office on the North side of a building, as there is less glare to deal with on my monitor, and the temperature is more consistent.
I stayed in my parents basement during high school and again for some time after college graduation. I've found it okay. It takes some getting used to, and you need to make an effort to go outside periodically and get some sunshine, but I've found staying in the basement gives me a better sense of privacy and control (my parents were less concerned with what I might rearrange in the basement hallways than say the upstairs hallways).
Still, sunshine is a good idea generally for both physical and mental health, and its easy to slip out of a reasonable sleep cycle when staying in the basement away from the rhythms of the sun. So your mileage may vary.
Still, sunshine is a good idea generally for both physical and mental health, and its easy to slip out of a reasonable sleep cycle when staying in the basement away from the rhythms of the sun. So your mileage may vary.
I agree with the general sentiment of this & wish I had a better view. My office is currently in my basement (only practical place in our house for it). I probably spend around 60% of my working hours there, the other 40% I'm on my laptop in various locations around the house to keep it fresh.
One thing I've found to help is growing some plants indoors. I have a few grow lights on 12h timers that keep me a little grounded to the rhythm of the Earth. However nothing beats the energy you get from a natural view.
One thing I've found to help is growing some plants indoors. I have a few grow lights on 12h timers that keep me a little grounded to the rhythm of the Earth. However nothing beats the energy you get from a natural view.
That's a good one. I have another one:
Never live in a place where there's a lot of house renewals going on. I lived in Lisbon, Portugal for a while and still after a few years the sound of a jackhammer in the distance still stresses me out. I had construction workers drilling through the dinning room ceiling by mistake, or removing the the ceiling of the downstairs appartment with a hammer just below me. An all that pain only to see your rentals not being renewed because of the ongoing gentrification process.
Never live in a place where there's a lot of house renewals going on. I lived in Lisbon, Portugal for a while and still after a few years the sound of a jackhammer in the distance still stresses me out. I had construction workers drilling through the dinning room ceiling by mistake, or removing the the ceiling of the downstairs appartment with a hammer just below me. An all that pain only to see your rentals not being renewed because of the ongoing gentrification process.
I have rented a basement for 10 years.
This is the problem. Unless you have absolutely no other options, don't rent one place for a decade. Try to move onwards. Rent a basement at the start, but as you progress in your career rent an apartment with a view, a whole house, maybe buy somewhere of your own eventually.
Don't settle until you're where you want to be. Accepting something that you're not happy with is what leaves scars. This applies to much more than just the place you call home.
This is the problem. Unless you have absolutely no other options, don't rent one place for a decade. Try to move onwards. Rent a basement at the start, but as you progress in your career rent an apartment with a view, a whole house, maybe buy somewhere of your own eventually.
Don't settle until you're where you want to be. Accepting something that you're not happy with is what leaves scars. This applies to much more than just the place you call home.
This could be good advice for people who are cheap but otherwise I can imagine most of the people living in basements do so because they don't have money to live elsewhere.
I'd more worry about humidity/mold problems and mobile network signal issues. At least that was my only experience with living in basement for few weeks, once in a life was enough. And I had actually big full sized 2m glass door with empty space in front of them, it was just under the regular surface level, but still technically basement.
That is a bit one sided.
Living in a basement allowed me to live in a substantially larger place than a studio apartment, 50m from a big park with playground, 100m from the main public transit of the city (train) and save so much in rent that I can now afford to buy. All of this while happy, now have two kids (still in the basement)
Living in a basement allowed me to live in a substantially larger place than a studio apartment, 50m from a big park with playground, 100m from the main public transit of the city (train) and save so much in rent that I can now afford to buy. All of this while happy, now have two kids (still in the basement)
I agree 100%. I have been lucky enough to not have to live in a ground-level apartment, let alone a basement, for my adult life so far, and I never will until I buy a house. The boost to quality of life from having nice windows and a view is immeasurable to me.
You have a similar problem at very high floors, you are disconnected from street life (in fact, the higher you are, the less frequently you leave the dwelling), but at least higher up you get sunlight. I think the sweet spot is the 2nd to 5th floors.
I rented a basement apartment for my last two years of college. It was totally great because I got a cheap place to rest my head but was rarely home otherwise. I think the real advice here is to not become a hobbit.
There are a lot of NYC apartment that also do not have windows at all. Priced at $2k and above.
NYC leaves a severe mental scar on me (not just windows, but everything pretty much), yet I am still here because I need the money.
NYC leaves a severe mental scar on me (not just windows, but everything pretty much), yet I am still here because I need the money.
There are zero legal apartments in NYC without windows. Hell, there are zero legal bedrooms in NYC without windows.
Even with recent price moves one can readily find an apartment for less than $2k here in decent parts of Brooklyn and Queens. And if your housing budget is $2k, one can find absolutely incredible places anywhere in the city if you’re willing to have a housemate or two… you shouldn’t have a problem finding a duplex in a nice brownstone, and you could each have a separate floor and entrance.
Even with recent price moves one can readily find an apartment for less than $2k here in decent parts of Brooklyn and Queens. And if your housing budget is $2k, one can find absolutely incredible places anywhere in the city if you’re willing to have a housemate or two… you shouldn’t have a problem finding a duplex in a nice brownstone, and you could each have a separate floor and entrance.
You know, there is money to be made in other places as well. People have been doing it for a long time now. I know some people who literally live in the woods and they also make money.
Here is an interesting analysis of the film Parasite which underlines the basement conundrum.
https://youtu.be/AvO8-925Edc?t=214
https://youtu.be/AvO8-925Edc?t=214
This is tagged as "Ask HN", but I don't see any question.
Anyway, for The IT Crowd, basements are essential.
Anyway, for The IT Crowd, basements are essential.
I'd like to introduce to you this thing called going outside. Or moving if you can afford it.
Radon gas issues too.
My cubicle has no windows either ...
I wish I were a dwarf.
[deleted]
Good shout
If you are young, learn from my mistake. If you are not at the stage where you can buy a house, take different steps.
Avoid basement. It leaves a severe mental scar on you for lifetime.