Building a 100% New Commodore 64 [video](youtube.com)
youtube.com
Building a 100% New Commodore 64 [video]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qhdc-jgwqVQ
29 comments
I watched this just yesterday, and it was quite entertaining even though I never owned a C64 (and would likely just emulate it if I wanted to use one), as I have a few friends rebuilding or restoring C64s right now.
Coming from the Z80/Sinclair universe, I never really “got” the fascination/nostalgia about the C64, although I do appreciate the 6502 and that the C64 is a small enough computer to fully wrap one’s brain around while having has a plethora of interesting architecture/design features (not to mention the SID chip, which is my favorite aspect of it).
Still, it is nice to see a fully modern recreation of it, and I hope things like the Raspberry Pi 400 (despit some stock shortage - that hasn’t affected this model as much as others) can play a similar role in getting kids interested in computers.
Coming from the Z80/Sinclair universe, I never really “got” the fascination/nostalgia about the C64, although I do appreciate the 6502 and that the C64 is a small enough computer to fully wrap one’s brain around while having has a plethora of interesting architecture/design features (not to mention the SID chip, which is my favorite aspect of it).
Still, it is nice to see a fully modern recreation of it, and I hope things like the Raspberry Pi 400 (despit some stock shortage - that hasn’t affected this model as much as others) can play a similar role in getting kids interested in computers.
For me, the appeal of the C64 is that it was documented very well in the standard reference manual, which was thoughtfully spiral bound and only about 300 pages long. It included a detailed hardware schematic, the complete assembly language and machine codes, the BASIC language, explanations of how to use every component chip like the SID and video chips, and many example programs. The whole machine could be understood very thoroughly and programmed by a child, even with no access to additional materials, although I gobbled up magazines and books about the C64 as fast as I could.
The RPi is fantastic, but it's far too complex to be described down to the machine code level in only 300 pages. I don't think even a million pages would describe the RPi to the same level as what we had with a C64. Of course, by modern standards, a new machine similar to the C64 (without the keyboard) would be rightfully called a small microcontroller and sell for less than $1.
The RPi is fantastic, but it's far too complex to be described down to the machine code level in only 300 pages. I don't think even a million pages would describe the RPi to the same level as what we had with a C64. Of course, by modern standards, a new machine similar to the C64 (without the keyboard) would be rightfully called a small microcontroller and sell for less than $1.
It was programmed by a child, me, just using that manual. I was maybe 8 or 9? My parents did not help. I definitely didn't do anything amazing with it! But it amazed me nonetheless.
No disk drive and my dad made me unplug it between uses...
No disk drive and my dad made me unplug it between uses...
In my experience typical microcontrollers in that price range do not have dedicated graphics-drawing hardware, and often not even any video output hardware.
Sure you can perhaps use the much faster CPU core to do both drawing and output in software, but (to me) that doesn't feel the same as having dedicated hardware with known architecture and limitations, shared among all machines of the same type.
Sure you can perhaps use the much faster CPU core to do both drawing and output in software, but (to me) that doesn't feel the same as having dedicated hardware with known architecture and limitations, shared among all machines of the same type.
Yes, if you want to use a microcontroller to do all the stuff the C64 did, including video and audio signal generation, well, it can be done (check out LFT's "craft" and "phazor" demos). But you'll need a considerably faster CPU.
Can confirm. Was a child. LOVED learning to program in BASIC on my C64.
Just a little hint if you want a good RPI C64 replacement:
>>BMC64 is a bare metal fork of VICE's C64 emulator optimized for the Raspberry Pi. It has 50hz/60hz smooth scrolling, low video/audio latency and a number of other features that make it perfect for building your own C64 replica machine. For more details visit the github link below.
https://accentual.com/bmc64/
So there is not OS between VICE and the Hardware.
>>BMC64 is a bare metal fork of VICE's C64 emulator optimized for the Raspberry Pi. It has 50hz/60hz smooth scrolling, low video/audio latency and a number of other features that make it perfect for building your own C64 replica machine. For more details visit the github link below.
https://accentual.com/bmc64/
So there is not OS between VICE and the Hardware.
Oh yes, I have that in my bucket list. Someday…
The title is not entirly correct. Some chips cannot be reproduce by FPGAs or other techniques until today. So for example the CIA chips you see in the video are straight out of the 80ties! This is not the definition of 100% new. Nice video though!
Did you watch till the end? He replaces the motherboard around the 27 minutes mark with one that's 100% new but pre-assembled after admitting that the one he built up to that point wasn't technically 100% new because of those chips.
The pinned comment is actually exactly your criticism.
The pinned comment is actually exactly your criticism.
A lot of nostalgia projects seem to be reviving old computers by rebuilding the motherboards, but what's missing is the peripherals. The CRT monitors and the (how quaint!) clickity-clackity keyboards.
Can't watch the video, but the thing I'm most interested in: did they make the key caps also?
When it comes to these 100% new C64s, I kinda wonder about VIC-II (C64 video chip) and perhaps SID (sound chip). There might still be undiscovered VIC-II exploits.
After all, it's not that long ago sprite crunching was discovered. Perhaps there are still other useful undiscovered hacks you could pull off.
Are there any efforts to decap VIC-II and create a 100% clone?
After all, it's not that long ago sprite crunching was discovered. Perhaps there are still other useful undiscovered hacks you could pull off.
Are there any efforts to decap VIC-II and create a 100% clone?
Speaking of new Commodores, I just received word this morning that my mega65 has finally shipped from Germany. I think I tossed 5 bucks their way back in 2015 or so, got on a mailing list, been following quietly ever since and put in an order a couple years ago. And waited...and waited...and now it will soon be here!
I still have my "old" C=64 in a box out in the garage. It has a bad kernal (IIRC - it's been years) chip, so it's just taking up space out there, but oh well.
Watch video, buy new kernel ROM chip -> success
It is definitely on my "I'll get to it one day" list.
What I got most curious about right now is if my muscle memory still would remember how to navigate with the cursor keys.
Using Shift to move left/up.
Using Shift to move left/up.
These kinds of projects will become essential for those seeking auditable computing platforms for sneakernet comms
The chips were previously available, e.g. from Individual Computers, which also produced new, improved mainboards (the C64 Reloaded) and a lot of other hardware and accessories for the C64 (and also for the Amiga computers).
The case is from a previous kickstarter campaign, which you can also buy normally now.
New are the keycaps itself, which finally seem to be shipping from the crowd funding campaign. Most likely he also backed the first attempt from someone who found and bought the original molding machine for the keycaps, but got bogged down by small little details and sadly never delivered. So it's good to see, that the second crowdfunding campaign from a different person who recreated the keys in a 3D layout and then went on to let them cut/print elsewhere, but which also took a long time to finally happen. Not few - including me - thought they lost their money a second time.
Since there existed previous test samples from both key campaigns, I'm confident someone already built a completely new C64 this century.
So, there you have it. The original video headline is quite a bit clickbaity and I honestly expected he did the layout of a completely new C64 board; nevertheless the video is fun and I'm happy that the C64 (scene) lives on in so many hearts.