First 6 days of Iran war cost $11.3B(nbcnews.com)
nbcnews.com
First 6 days of Iran war cost $11.3B
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/first-6-days-iran-war-cost-11-billion-pentagon-tells-senators-rcna263060
83 comments
I don't know, if you look at public health consumption expenditures per capita, current prices, current PPPs, 2015-2024, US is up there. It's mostly medicaid and medicare. You might not like how the money is being spent but the idea that US doesn't spend money on these things compared to other Western countries is just not true.
Same with education
> In 2019, the United States spent $15,500 per full-time-equivalent (FTE) student on elementary and secondary education, which was 38 percent higher than the average of Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) member countries of $11,300 (in constant 2021 U.S. dollars). At the postsecondary level, the United States spent $37,400 per FTE student, which was more than double the average of OECD countries ($18,400; in constant 2021 U.S. dollars).
I get that it's cool to say US doesn't spend on these kinds of things, but it's just not true. It's a rich country
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-...
https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/cmd/education-exp...
Same with education
> In 2019, the United States spent $15,500 per full-time-equivalent (FTE) student on elementary and secondary education, which was 38 percent higher than the average of Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) member countries of $11,300 (in constant 2021 U.S. dollars). At the postsecondary level, the United States spent $37,400 per FTE student, which was more than double the average of OECD countries ($18,400; in constant 2021 U.S. dollars).
I get that it's cool to say US doesn't spend on these kinds of things, but it's just not true. It's a rich country
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-...
https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/cmd/education-exp...
It’s spending. Comparatively? Not sure. Health and education are wildly more expensive in the US as compared to other countries). Are US citizens getting similar/better outcomes? What is the comparison between exported/imported jobs and health care between countries?
The US spends more on health and education than developed countries and gets significantly worse outcomes.
There is no world where the way it is done now is “good”.
There is no world where the way it is done now is “good”.
True, but I don't think grandparent commenter claimed it was “good” - instead, I think they were replying to the claim that the US won’t or refuses to spend money on those things.
So the US doesn’t spend the money, and it doesn’t provide services to its citizens.
The citizens themselves have to pay from their own pocket, and they get substandard services because the whole thing is setup to maximize profits for private companies.
The citizens themselves have to pay from their own pocket, and they get substandard services because the whole thing is setup to maximize profits for private companies.
> So the US doesn’t spend the money, and it doesn’t provide services to its citizens. The citizens themselves have to pay from their own pocket
The three examples in bko's grandparent comment you'd replied to were education, medicaid, and medicare.
The three examples in bko's grandparent comment you'd replied to were education, medicaid, and medicare.
So it spends more than other countries, but gets worse results?
… that’s not a flex.
… that’s not a flex.
I read bko’s comment as merely pointing out that the claim that the US doesn't spend money on those things was untrue.
> that's not a flex
Was there something about bko’s comment that made you believe they thought it was a “flex”? (I'd similarly say the US spends a lot but doesn’t get good results.)
> that's not a flex
Was there something about bko’s comment that made you believe they thought it was a “flex”? (I'd similarly say the US spends a lot but doesn’t get good results.)
I think tech workers just often don't realize nearly half of the country is eligible for either Medicare or Medicaid and that we're just part of the class of sub-human subjects who get taxed into oblivion for transfer payments for almost half of everyone else but ourselves and on top of that have to pay (directly on indirectly through employment) for sky-high insurance rates that the medicare demographic disproportionately voted for policies that imposed such high rates on us.
Your insurance system is a scam, but socialized health care is preferable to the alternatives.
I think there has to be at least some level of tolerance for venting when you step out of work, walk up the street to the grocery store for a bite to eat. And on the street are drug addicts trying to sell you their food stamp card, which also means they are eligible for Medicaid, and meanwhile when your own family needs healthcare no one gives a flying fuck and you are on your own but by god you better pay taxes for half of everyone else to get that healthcare. All from personal experience. The message is if you contribute to society then you are left to die of whatever ailments you might get while being forced to cover half of everyone else's, but otherwise society will take care of your health if you choose to seek healthcare.
Regardless of your stance on single payer healthcare, anyone can see what we have is a highly corrupt and contemptable system and what I am receiving is not "socialized" health care.
Regardless of your stance on single payer healthcare, anyone can see what we have is a highly corrupt and contemptable system and what I am receiving is not "socialized" health care.
No, that's not socialised healthcare. If it were socialised it would be for everyone. Like here.
What you have there is profit maximisation. The poor guys can't afford healthcare anyway so they give it to them for free but you're still scraping by to fill the big guys pockets. Because you can.
But don't blame socialism for it because this is none of that.
What you have there is profit maximisation. The poor guys can't afford healthcare anyway so they give it to them for free but you're still scraping by to fill the big guys pockets. Because you can.
But don't blame socialism for it because this is none of that.
Somehow I'm paradoxically blaming socialism while also being acknowledged the thing I'm blaming isn't socialism and I explicitly said what I was getting was not that.
And this is why it's so hard to discuss, because you are always damned either way by someone declaring that whatever you were talking about was in the other half of it's Schrödinger's socialism state at whatever moment you were talking about it.
And this is why it's so hard to discuss, because you are always damned either way by someone declaring that whatever you were talking about was in the other half of it's Schrödinger's socialism state at whatever moment you were talking about it.
You're right you did say that, sorry. I overlooked that.
To be honest I'm a bit primed by the (mostly) republicans always attacking our welfare safety net, our healthcare, our kindness to immigrants etc. Even our lack of exploitative ultra-capitalism. Whereas for us these things work well. So I jumped to the defensive too quickly.
To be honest I'm a bit primed by the (mostly) republicans always attacking our welfare safety net, our healthcare, our kindness to immigrants etc. Even our lack of exploitative ultra-capitalism. Whereas for us these things work well. So I jumped to the defensive too quickly.
And then they spit on us anyway. Part of me wants to just CoastFI and take a lower paying job in spite.
Anything to keep ourselves comfortable. That's one of the reasons I see that we have representatives - so the population at large doesn't have to bear the burden of doing dirty work.
We then in the same breath complain about government but put forth no effort to fix it.
We then in the same breath complain about government but put forth no effort to fix it.
Is US Congress actually doing anything or do they just stand by and let Trump do whatever he likes?
My own country's parliament is having more debates about the Iranian war and we're just sending one warship to Cyprus!
My own country's parliament is having more debates about the Iranian war and we're just sending one warship to Cyprus!
Trump has mastered the bully pulpit and his steadfast popularity with his base to threaten any Republican who gets out of line by endorsing a primary challenger. This has been effective in replacing anyone who challenges him, and scaring the rest into line.
IIRC the argument isn't that there's no enough money but that it shouldn't be done. American public happens to believe that the current system is better, that's why no one is rioting. They may riot if someone introduces tax funded safety net.
> Why Americans are not rioting in the streets is beyond me.
That's not entirely fair. The January 6 rioters acted because they knew how bad for the country it would be if the wrong candidate got into office and started a war.
That's not entirely fair. The January 6 rioters acted because they knew how bad for the country it would be if the wrong candidate got into office and started a war.
"The January 6 rioters acted because they knew how bad for the country it would be if the wrong candidate got into office and started a war."
I don't think that's what they were told when they were given marching orders to fight like hell
I don't think that's what they were told when they were given marching orders to fight like hell
They were told that the election was stolen and the system was rigged. Under the pretense that you were told no more fair and free elections would you not go do exactly what the j6ers did, I think you would be foolish to say no.
The only core issue is that everything that was said that day was a whole a total lie and the responsibility hangs with the liars
The only core issue is that everything that was said that day was a whole a total lie and the responsibility hangs with the liars
They were the only people dumb enough to actually believe the obvious lies.
Sarcasm is a funny thing.
> Why Americans are not rioting in the streets is beyond me.
And why people still work for the military.
If I worked for the military I'd be willing to fight in defensive operations but not this kind of oil imperialism. This is only going to make the world less safe because there's a whole new generation of people whose families got killed and now have an axe to grind and they're going to come after those who did it. Iran isn't even that bad (it seems to be mostly military targets) but in Lebanon they're levelling entire city blocks again.
The last Iraq war created ISIS. The Afghan war didn't accomplish anything, things got back to square one in two months. What's the plan for Iran after the war? Oh wait there isn't one. Again. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/mar/12/israel-iran-us...
And why people still work for the military.
If I worked for the military I'd be willing to fight in defensive operations but not this kind of oil imperialism. This is only going to make the world less safe because there's a whole new generation of people whose families got killed and now have an axe to grind and they're going to come after those who did it. Iran isn't even that bad (it seems to be mostly military targets) but in Lebanon they're levelling entire city blocks again.
The last Iraq war created ISIS. The Afghan war didn't accomplish anything, things got back to square one in two months. What's the plan for Iran after the war? Oh wait there isn't one. Again. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/mar/12/israel-iran-us...
The thing about the military is, once you join, you don't get to decide whether you fight for this kind of oil imperialism -- it's follow orders or go to military prison. (You might, separately, be able to sue from military prison claiming the orders were illegal, but good luck with that.)
You definitely don't get to just quit.
You definitely don't get to just quit.
I thought you could resign your commission or something? I've heard of that.
I'm not in the military of course and I couldn't be, I'm not a team player and tou unstable, I would spiral out of control in such an environment. But I thought there were ways of getting out of it.
I'm not in the military of course and I couldn't be, I'm not a team player and tou unstable, I would spiral out of control in such an environment. But I thought there were ways of getting out of it.
> Why Americans are not rioting in the streets is beyond me.
I'm really am tired of reading this nonsensical hyperbolic line. No one is hurting enough to care to take to the streets. You know this, I know this, we all know this. Please stop repeating it.
I'm really am tired of reading this nonsensical hyperbolic line. No one is hurting enough to care to take to the streets. You know this, I know this, we all know this. Please stop repeating it.
Compared to other developed countries many tens of millions of Americans have a much worse quality of life.
Part of the problem is they just don’t know it.
How much paid maternity leave do you get? Paid time off to move house? How’s your healthcare when you take a few years off work to raise your kids, or learn to paint?
These are basic human rights for many around the world.
Part of the problem is they just don’t know it.
How much paid maternity leave do you get? Paid time off to move house? How’s your healthcare when you take a few years off work to raise your kids, or learn to paint?
These are basic human rights for many around the world.
75% of them are overweight or obese, 30% functionally illiterate. They have neither the physical, cognitive or cultural capabilities to do what's needed
the bombing of the girls school should never have happened and is inexcusable,
but otherwise increasing the future safety by annihilating the military structure of an aspiring nuclear power for say $50B / 250M inhabitants = $200 per person, sounds like a steal
if only this would have been done before and thus instead of a genocide in Gaza!
if only this would have been done before and thus instead of a genocide in Gaza!
This thing is far from over. Iran will indefinitely be able to block the straight. The us will be stuck in this defensive position for months, until it pulls out and effectively loses the war.
It's clear we are going to lose, because we cannot topple the regime without putting troops on the ground, which we will never do. Setting that as a war aim doomed this whole effort from the start.
It's clear we are going to lose, because we cannot topple the regime without putting troops on the ground, which we will never do. Setting that as a war aim doomed this whole effort from the start.
Ground invasion would literally be Vietnam again. And don't say they'll never do it. Reports from classified briefings indicate a draft is seriously being considered.
I'm not surprised they would consider it, but it seems hilariously stupid. Even as cynical as I am about politics in this country this will never fly with most of Trump's supporters.
We’ve heard this before…
This isn't targeting immigrants or Democrats though, unless they try to only draft Democrats it's going to be them, their sons, their brothers and husbands getting told they have to go die.
It would be figuratively Vietnam again.
Vietnam was all for nothing either. In the end nothing was accomplished and really it didn't matter that the communists took over a tiny unproductive piece of land across the world. It was a pointless war and many people on both sides (including many of their civilians) died needlessly just for a dick waving contest :( I really hope this won't come to that.
> but otherwise increasing the future safety by annihilating the military structure of an aspiring nuclear power for say
The problem is that there's always a very convenient aspiring nuclear power to hit. In hindsight they rarely never were a real threats (Iraq, Cuba). And what became real threats have historically been downplayed by the american government (North Korea).
The problem is that there's always a very convenient aspiring nuclear power to hit. In hindsight they rarely never were a real threats (Iraq, Cuba). And what became real threats have historically been downplayed by the american government (North Korea).
Iran is real threat to oil circulation in that region, they applied this tactics many times before. Now imagine if we come to current situation 5 years later when Iran has missiles with nuclear warheads?
> they applied this tactics many times before
Feel free to list the details about when, how and why it happened before ;) interestingly none of these scenario would even have happened if they had nukes to begin with, how weird
Feel free to list the details about when, how and why it happened before ;) interestingly none of these scenario would even have happened if they had nukes to begin with, how weird
Here is example: https://news.usni.org/2023/04/27/centcom-iranian-naval-force...
> interestingly none of these scenario would even have happened if they had nukes to begin with, how weird
this is very weird speculation, Iran would be way more aggressive in its action in the region if they would have nukes.
> interestingly none of these scenario would even have happened if they had nukes to begin with, how weird
this is very weird speculation, Iran would be way more aggressive in its action in the region if they would have nukes.
The only weird thing in this story is that we keep preemptively bombing the same people for at best vague reasons (they were about to attack us trust me bro) and at worst complete made up lies (they have mass destruction weapons, look at my jar of anthrax).
> they were about to attack us trust me bro
depends how you define "attack us". Iran is part of Iran-Russia-China axis, which goals are very explicit in expanding influence and territories (Ukraine, Taiwan, Syria, Iraq, Gulf states). If they succeed, Western world will be cut from semiconductors and oil and become much weaker.
depends how you define "attack us". Iran is part of Iran-Russia-China axis, which goals are very explicit in expanding influence and territories (Ukraine, Taiwan, Syria, Iraq, Gulf states). If they succeed, Western world will be cut from semiconductors and oil and become much weaker.
Might, may, could, potentially, maybe... Virtually nothing happened in decades and now that the US/Israel decided time was up the situation is more fucked than it has ever been, potentially pushing the Iranian government into more radicalism, good job! That will teach them. "we had to attack because they could theoretically cut us from oil in a distant future", how is it going so far?
How did it go in Iraq? Afghanistan? What's up with kidnapping Maduro? Is this what the "western world" is about? Securing resources by bombing people preemptively because they might do something you don't like one day?
You can't look at the recent history of the region and point the finger at literally anyone else other than the US with a straight face lmao, you're the blood thirsty nation who's military industrial complex got out of hand, just watch the latest videos posted by the official white house accounts, only psychopaths would come up with these
How did it go in Iraq? Afghanistan? What's up with kidnapping Maduro? Is this what the "western world" is about? Securing resources by bombing people preemptively because they might do something you don't like one day?
You can't look at the recent history of the region and point the finger at literally anyone else other than the US with a straight face lmao, you're the blood thirsty nation who's military industrial complex got out of hand, just watch the latest videos posted by the official white house accounts, only psychopaths would come up with these
> Virtually nothing happened in decades
it was decades of very intense proxy wars: Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Gaza, Lebanon. Iran didn't hesitate to attack oil assets: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abqaiq%E2%80%93Khurais_attack
> Is this what the "western world" is about? Securing resources by bombing people preemptively because they might do something you don't like one day?
sure, that's what humans do through centuries. If you don't do it, you get extinct because other forces become stronger and bomb you.
it was decades of very intense proxy wars: Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Gaza, Lebanon. Iran didn't hesitate to attack oil assets: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abqaiq%E2%80%93Khurais_attack
> Is this what the "western world" is about? Securing resources by bombing people preemptively because they might do something you don't like one day?
sure, that's what humans do through centuries. If you don't do it, you get extinct because other forces become stronger and bomb you.
> it was decades of very intense proxy wars: Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Gaza, Lebanon. Iran didn't hesitate to attack oil assets
Compared to the US and Israel who only mind their own business and never do any shady things of course. Russia says the same thing about the US in Ukraine, but there it's a dirty propaganda lie, when it comes to Iran it's just the Real Truth ™
Compared to the US and Israel who only mind their own business and never do any shady things of course. Russia says the same thing about the US in Ukraine, but there it's a dirty propaganda lie, when it comes to Iran it's just the Real Truth ™
Plenty of other nations (including Iran for decades) are not getting this stick. Carrots were even offered. The USA has remained remarkably calm remarkably long. Imagine this had been executed before Hamas parachuted a Jewish music festival? Gaza wouldn't have been sandwiched between Israel on one side and Iran's Hamas on the other. Imagine Iran had fallen (it hasnt yet) before that event. Israel wouldn't possibly have been able to "justify" doing a genocide in Gaza even to its own population!
Inaction is a weapon of mass destruction.
Inaction is a weapon of mass destruction.
you are putting words in the mouth of your discourse partner: approaching nuclear weapons capabilities is the reason for attack, waiting until its too late is obviously not considered an option.
Like when Iraq was just about to drop anthrax all over the US? We should study the psychology of normies falling over and over for the same propaganda techniques even when it goes again their own interests
maybe its unlike Iraq situation this time.
What makes you think Iran was not a real nuclear threat?
The USA even bungled up an operation (with the goal of gaining better intel and internal domestic spies in Iran) by convincing an Iranian physicist to carry convincing plans to an address in Iran. That physicist got so sh-scared (who wouldn't) that the nuclear bomb designs would be so transparently bugged that he feared for his life. He did the unexpected: he recognized which parts of the designs were obviously manipulated for failure and corrected them before indeed depositing at the address. He feared and figured that other physicists in Iran would quickly spot the same manipulations in the weapon design, and he would effectively be committing suicide by thus proving himself a spy!
What a cuck-op of an operation!
The USA even bungled up an operation (with the goal of gaining better intel and internal domestic spies in Iran) by convincing an Iranian physicist to carry convincing plans to an address in Iran. That physicist got so sh-scared (who wouldn't) that the nuclear bomb designs would be so transparently bugged that he feared for his life. He did the unexpected: he recognized which parts of the designs were obviously manipulated for failure and corrected them before indeed depositing at the address. He feared and figured that other physicists in Iran would quickly spot the same manipulations in the weapon design, and he would effectively be committing suicide by thus proving himself a spy!
What a cuck-op of an operation!
> What makes you think Iran was not a real nuclear threat?
decades and decades and decades of ...
https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2025/6/18/the-history-of-n...
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMiddleEast/comments/1l9t7yl/neta...
decades and decades and decades of ...
https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2025/6/18/the-history-of-n...
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMiddleEast/comments/1l9t7yl/neta...
do you deny they had the ambition?
you don't train such huge proportions of the population towards physics without nuclear weapon ambitions
you don't enrich uranium to absurdly high levels for peaceful energy production (sorting isotopes is expensive)
you don't assassinate with hydrogen cyanide (generic non-brand equivalent of Zyklon B) random minorities (like Mahsa Amini) just because they would like to study law, and happen to have a less-regime aligned attitude, unless you are running a chemical weapons program (which apparently wasn't really halted after the Iran-Iraq war)
you don't train such huge proportions of the population towards physics without nuclear weapon ambitions
you don't enrich uranium to absurdly high levels for peaceful energy production (sorting isotopes is expensive)
you don't assassinate with hydrogen cyanide (generic non-brand equivalent of Zyklon B) random minorities (like Mahsa Amini) just because they would like to study law, and happen to have a less-regime aligned attitude, unless you are running a chemical weapons program (which apparently wasn't really halted after the Iran-Iraq war)
> do you deny they had the ambition?
I have an ambition to marry MacKenzie Scott but doubt that’s happening :)
I have an ambition to marry MacKenzie Scott but doubt that’s happening :)
Attacking Iran has made the entire region less safe and so far there is no evidence Iran has been deterred. They continue to successfully hit targets with missiles and drones, and they have expanded operations to successfully close the Strait of Hormuz. Seems like it would have been a lot cheaper to not attack Iran and instead to rein in Israel, an existing nuclear power that is the primary destabilizing force in the Middle East.
Both Israel's as well as Iran's and for that matter all nuclear ambitions of any nation should be reigned in, as humanity was doing for a while after the first cold war, with the progressive reduction treaties etc. From the perspective of the USA, a medium-future nuclear attack by Israel was much less likely than a medium-future nuclear attack by Iran.
Closing the Strait of Hormuz is quite easy, scorched-earth-tactics (well scorched-sea-tactics) like sea-mines are a lot easier than conquering territory.
Just look Bosnia&Herzegovina and the huge minefields that were deposited there.
This doesn't show Iran's resilience, and sea mines can be cleared.
There's a long list of cards the USA holds and somewhere down that line there are options like announcing total destruction of neighborhoods of Teheran, and advising the inhabitants to leave, starting with the richest (and thus regime aligned) neighborhoods. Just gradually announce the carpet bombing neighborhoods and provide ample time for evacuation. Watch your demands being met one by one: defuse your sea mines, if one more goes off thats another richest neighborhood gone, give up your for-energy-generation-over-enriched uranium (there is no discussion of its existence as Iran was pleading an insignificant dilution of part of this stockpile) or that another richest-neighborhood-thats-left gone.
Unlike the human-shields / hostage-taking tactics of the IRGC / ayatollah, it would target not innocent third parties nor the lives but the possessions of the regime-aligned parts of the population.
All the people you forced to study physics for the megalomaniac dreams of the regime? Allow them to flee the country (and take their inkling nuclear skills with them) and welcome them with a new free life. In the west we don't gas your girlfriends, sisters, nieces over a few hairs sticking out from under their headwear.
People repeat the patterns of their breaktrhoughs / successes.
There were many factions around the time the current regime rose to power.
Which one won? Which one was reluctantly given bargaining power by the free world? The faction that took hostages.
Ever since, whenever the regime felt threatened (internally or externally) they resort to hostage taking and human shields.
No sane person puts a girls school in a semi-used military complex, especially not in that hotbed of the middle east, with Iraq as a neighbour, Israel not much further, and while sponsoring and weaponizing groups like Hamas.
Closing the Strait of Hormuz is quite easy, scorched-earth-tactics (well scorched-sea-tactics) like sea-mines are a lot easier than conquering territory.
Just look Bosnia&Herzegovina and the huge minefields that were deposited there.
This doesn't show Iran's resilience, and sea mines can be cleared.
There's a long list of cards the USA holds and somewhere down that line there are options like announcing total destruction of neighborhoods of Teheran, and advising the inhabitants to leave, starting with the richest (and thus regime aligned) neighborhoods. Just gradually announce the carpet bombing neighborhoods and provide ample time for evacuation. Watch your demands being met one by one: defuse your sea mines, if one more goes off thats another richest neighborhood gone, give up your for-energy-generation-over-enriched uranium (there is no discussion of its existence as Iran was pleading an insignificant dilution of part of this stockpile) or that another richest-neighborhood-thats-left gone.
Unlike the human-shields / hostage-taking tactics of the IRGC / ayatollah, it would target not innocent third parties nor the lives but the possessions of the regime-aligned parts of the population.
All the people you forced to study physics for the megalomaniac dreams of the regime? Allow them to flee the country (and take their inkling nuclear skills with them) and welcome them with a new free life. In the west we don't gas your girlfriends, sisters, nieces over a few hairs sticking out from under their headwear.
People repeat the patterns of their breaktrhoughs / successes.
There were many factions around the time the current regime rose to power.
Which one won? Which one was reluctantly given bargaining power by the free world? The faction that took hostages.
Ever since, whenever the regime felt threatened (internally or externally) they resort to hostage taking and human shields.
No sane person puts a girls school in a semi-used military complex, especially not in that hotbed of the middle east, with Iraq as a neighbour, Israel not much further, and while sponsoring and weaponizing groups like Hamas.
This was not about "nuclear ambitions" and we all know it. This has squat zero with nuclear threat, existing or even imagined.
Destroy civilian areas neighborhood by neighborhood until they comply? That's not only a war crime - that would create an international humanitarian crisis and millions of refugees. Tehran alone is a city of more than 9 million people. The IRGC doesn't care how many civilians the U.S. kills. It only strengthens their case that the war is existential and America/Israel want to obliterate Iran. They have a huge stockpile of missiles and drones that are not easily destroyed. Mines are not needed to close the strait, just the credible threat of drone and missile strikes, and no ship will sail through.
"Regime-aligned civilians" is a slippery slope that is essentially collective punishment. Most anyone in Iran can be tied to the government through jobs or family, and they are not segregated by level of "regime alignment", so you would be obliterating the homes of many civilians who might otherwise oppose the government.
Genuinely flabbergasted that you came up with that strategy unprompted when not even Hegseth ("drink blood from the skulls of our enemies") has suggested it AFAIK. Your post genuinely reads like the monologue of a cartoonish villain.
"Regime-aligned civilians" is a slippery slope that is essentially collective punishment. Most anyone in Iran can be tied to the government through jobs or family, and they are not segregated by level of "regime alignment", so you would be obliterating the homes of many civilians who might otherwise oppose the government.
Genuinely flabbergasted that you came up with that strategy unprompted when not even Hegseth ("drink blood from the skulls of our enemies") has suggested it AFAIK. Your post genuinely reads like the monologue of a cartoonish villain.
Why did Trump cancel the Iran deal then? US intelligence agencies all agreed they were not working towards a bomb anymore.
And even Israel puts military targets next to civilians.
Just embarrassing levels of hasbara.
And even Israel puts military targets next to civilians.
Just embarrassing levels of hasbara.
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Should America do this to every aspiring nuclear nation? All the time?
Yes bombing schools, cities, and countries into broken states ruled by warring factions is the only way to achieve peace.
At the time of the bombing that school was not on Open Street Map, instead the military base (where the school was installed!) had been added a bit more than 5 years ago. Obviously international law requires targets to be thoroughly verified, which obviously didn't happen.
I am not blaming OSM for what happened, but just to avoid having a great FOSS project being used for unverified targetting: perhaps we should have stronger requests for verification for military domains around the world. OSM could contact the governments and ask if any non-military entities reside in that base. If the government refuses to confirm or deny, or just pretend there is no school, then OSM can bring this response up at a later date.
I am not blaming OSM for what happened, but just to avoid having a great FOSS project being used for unverified targetting: perhaps we should have stronger requests for verification for military domains around the world. OSM could contact the governments and ask if any non-military entities reside in that base. If the government refuses to confirm or deny, or just pretend there is no school, then OSM can bring this response up at a later date.
> ... was not on Open Street Map
Would expect nothing less of the current administration than to use Open Street Map in their killing campaign (maybe Apple Maps should have been cross-checked)
Would expect nothing less of the current administration than to use Open Street Map in their killing campaign (maybe Apple Maps should have been cross-checked)
Hey, I typically avoid the use of proprietary maps, but I am very interested in how Apple Maps knew there was a school before the bombing.
I am also interested in seeing verifiable proof that Apple Maps displayed a school there before the attack occured, and I certainly agree all available maps should have been checked, including past satellite imagery, which surely would have betrayed the presence of large amounts of children (from shadow lengths). As I said before, what happened there was inexcusable.
What is known is that Israel and USA divided the targets according to respective materiel proximity, which MUST mean that a common list of targets would have been maintained and then divided by proximity / weapon range. This means that in theory Israel could have selected the target, just like USA may have selected certain more northern targets, and then misplaced trust could have enabled blindly bombing a target selected by the other nation state.
In other words I certainly see it as a possibility that Israel intentionally shared this target pretending not to know about the girls school. They certainly can be suspected of having a motive: revenge for the killings of their children on the music festival. The genocide in Gaza apparently doesn't sufficiently quench their thirst for revenge, especially since everyone knows Hamas is effectively Iran-in-Gaza. From the perspective of Israel it's also an excellent way to ensure sustained conflict between Iran and the USA, and thus force the USA to continue contributing firepower in this escalation.
IF the above were the case, in my opinion the best move for the USA is to acknowledge as quickly as possible that while they bombed the target location, that this target selection was by Israel.
I am also interested in seeing verifiable proof that Apple Maps displayed a school there before the attack occured, and I certainly agree all available maps should have been checked, including past satellite imagery, which surely would have betrayed the presence of large amounts of children (from shadow lengths). As I said before, what happened there was inexcusable.
What is known is that Israel and USA divided the targets according to respective materiel proximity, which MUST mean that a common list of targets would have been maintained and then divided by proximity / weapon range. This means that in theory Israel could have selected the target, just like USA may have selected certain more northern targets, and then misplaced trust could have enabled blindly bombing a target selected by the other nation state.
In other words I certainly see it as a possibility that Israel intentionally shared this target pretending not to know about the girls school. They certainly can be suspected of having a motive: revenge for the killings of their children on the music festival. The genocide in Gaza apparently doesn't sufficiently quench their thirst for revenge, especially since everyone knows Hamas is effectively Iran-in-Gaza. From the perspective of Israel it's also an excellent way to ensure sustained conflict between Iran and the USA, and thus force the USA to continue contributing firepower in this escalation.
IF the above were the case, in my opinion the best move for the USA is to acknowledge as quickly as possible that while they bombed the target location, that this target selection was by Israel.
With many they can't. They didn't do it to North Korea because that would involve China and cause WWIII and besides, they would level Seoul with conventional artillery.
But really, North Korea seems to be more quiet since they have them. I think the world would have been less safe if they'd been attacked.
But really, North Korea seems to be more quiet since they have them. I think the world would have been less safe if they'd been attacked.
I have seen no convincing evidence that NK has miniaturized nuclear weapons sufficiently to put in on an ICBM, nor have I seen convincing evidence that they can handle the complexities of re-entry. If they want to be taken seriously they should give actual demonstrations instead of posturing. You know, like how US / Russia used to allow each other to inspect each others submarines, count warheads, etc.
NK can feign concern like revealing trajectory choices, radar signatures etc. but those can all be addressed: stick a big retroreflector on it that drowns out any actual radar signature, use a ridiculous trajectory, that still puts a representative heat and temperature burden on the re-entry vehicle, and so on and so on.
It seems NK doesn't want to be taken seriously (and the same for Israel when it comes to nuclear weapons to be honest).
NK can feign concern like revealing trajectory choices, radar signatures etc. but those can all be addressed: stick a big retroreflector on it that drowns out any actual radar signature, use a ridiculous trajectory, that still puts a representative heat and temperature burden on the re-entry vehicle, and so on and so on.
It seems NK doesn't want to be taken seriously (and the same for Israel when it comes to nuclear weapons to be honest).
Oh I'd take them seriously alright. All they have to do is put one inside a ship and sail it inside a harbour. Or in the back of a semi.
That's a risk not worth taking. They have exploded several, they're a credible threat now. But they only seem to be interested in using it as a deterrent, which is the sane choice given mutually assured destruction. They won't use them offensively as they'll just get wiped out.
If they had been attacked before building them I'm sure many people in Seoul would have died from artillery attacks and perhaps China would have got into a hot war with the US. I think we're better off that it didn't.
I'm pretty sure Iran would have done the same thing.. They're pretty sane too. Evil and terrible murderers to their citizens but they're not going to play nuclear chicken with a thousand times more powerful enemy.
That's a risk not worth taking. They have exploded several, they're a credible threat now. But they only seem to be interested in using it as a deterrent, which is the sane choice given mutually assured destruction. They won't use them offensively as they'll just get wiped out.
If they had been attacked before building them I'm sure many people in Seoul would have died from artillery attacks and perhaps China would have got into a hot war with the US. I think we're better off that it didn't.
I'm pretty sure Iran would have done the same thing.. They're pretty sane too. Evil and terrible murderers to their citizens but they're not going to play nuclear chicken with a thousand times more powerful enemy.
They "obliterated" their nuclear program last june [0], unless you're calling them liars?
[0] https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/2025/06/irans-nuclear-fa...
[0] https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/2025/06/irans-nuclear-fa...
The US had a joint nuclear program with Iran for decades... After the revolution they didn't even pursue nuclear weapons until they understood it was the only thing you can get to protect yourself from Israel and American bullying.
> before and thus instead of a genocide in Gaza!
Lmao yeah OK buddy, your dollars are financing both, and many more, atrocities
> before and thus instead of a genocide in Gaza!
Lmao yeah OK buddy, your dollars are financing both, and many more, atrocities
You are making assumptions, I don't earn or pay tax dollars or euros.
I have a youth trauma, that I refuse to sponsor through (obligatory) healthcare and taxes. No taxes means no income. Fine I'm a homeless bum!
All I see is angry circumcised men being sent to fight another nation's angry circumcised men, instead of addressing the perpetrators of their traumas, work from the individual perspective not the collective one.
> After the revolution they didn't even pursue nuclear weapons until they understood it was the only thing you can get to protect yourself from Israel and American bullying.
I see this claim a lot, but it appears to not be true: plenty of nations have no nuclear weapons program and aren't being bullied; while Iran has a nuclear weapons program, and clearly is being "bullied".
Yes Trump is a clown, in most democracies we can select who brings the bad news and can do the posturing. Most policy is deep state and persists across electoral swings from one party to another. It's not because Trump has been selected as the mouthpiece in charge, that the plans weren't drafted by "deep state" (non-elected) servants and organizations.
The whole republicans vs democrats is a ridiculous joke, you don't have to tell me about it.
Republic: from latin Res publica (the affairs or decisions or matters that belong to and thus need to be decided by the public) so basically "power to the people"
Democracy: from greek dēmokratía, dēmos and krátos (people and rule or power) so basically "power to the people"
So we have 2 parties claiming to stand for the same thing "power to the people" and a never ending fight for the Greek term or the Latin term. Most US citizens don't even understand greek or latin!
What does every elite do in fear of its population? Divide and conquer: divide your population in half and have them fight for a greek term and have the other half fight for a latin term, but use dead old languages so people are blinded from seeing they want the same thing!
I have a youth trauma, that I refuse to sponsor through (obligatory) healthcare and taxes. No taxes means no income. Fine I'm a homeless bum!
All I see is angry circumcised men being sent to fight another nation's angry circumcised men, instead of addressing the perpetrators of their traumas, work from the individual perspective not the collective one.
> After the revolution they didn't even pursue nuclear weapons until they understood it was the only thing you can get to protect yourself from Israel and American bullying.
I see this claim a lot, but it appears to not be true: plenty of nations have no nuclear weapons program and aren't being bullied; while Iran has a nuclear weapons program, and clearly is being "bullied".
Yes Trump is a clown, in most democracies we can select who brings the bad news and can do the posturing. Most policy is deep state and persists across electoral swings from one party to another. It's not because Trump has been selected as the mouthpiece in charge, that the plans weren't drafted by "deep state" (non-elected) servants and organizations.
The whole republicans vs democrats is a ridiculous joke, you don't have to tell me about it.
Republic: from latin Res publica (the affairs or decisions or matters that belong to and thus need to be decided by the public) so basically "power to the people"
Democracy: from greek dēmokratía, dēmos and krátos (people and rule or power) so basically "power to the people"
So we have 2 parties claiming to stand for the same thing "power to the people" and a never ending fight for the Greek term or the Latin term. Most US citizens don't even understand greek or latin!
What does every elite do in fear of its population? Divide and conquer: divide your population in half and have them fight for a greek term and have the other half fight for a latin term, but use dead old languages so people are blinded from seeing they want the same thing!
> a never ending fight for the Greek term or the Latin term.
Oh, that never occurred to me. Now the two party system is even more ridiculous. Thanks for the insight.
Oh, that never occurred to me. Now the two party system is even more ridiculous. Thanks for the insight.
Sadly this is just as much money as was stolen from taxpayers and transferred to "The Board of Peace"
That's the cost of vibe bombing a country.
0ckpuppet(1)
Why Americans are not rioting in the streets is beyond me.