How I killed my start-up (a post mortem)(ryanleland.com)
ryanleland.com
How I killed my start-up (a post mortem)
http://ryanleland.com/2009/08/post-mortem-you-vs-me-com/
30 comments
From the original article: I think that the concept of the site was just too limiting
It's great that he was able to see that and not sink any more time into an idea with no future.
It's great that he was able to see that and not sink any more time into an idea with no future.
You mean how he killed his project/website? People love to slut the word startup around.
Can you explain the difference? Because I'm not seeing it.
I'll take a shot. In his post there is not one word about revenue, cashflow, plan for monetization , etc. It's the typical "Let's get more users" gauge of success.
Businesses make money.
Just look at exactly what he is saying. He is talking about his lack of user traction as a reason for why his startup fail. i.e. "my startup failed because i don't have enough users".
Businesses fail for one reason and one reason only. They spend more money than they make.
How is this a business?
Businesses make money.
Just look at exactly what he is saying. He is talking about his lack of user traction as a reason for why his startup fail. i.e. "my startup failed because i don't have enough users".
Businesses fail for one reason and one reason only. They spend more money than they make.
How is this a business?
While I can understand your values (and agree with them) your definition would make YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, and dozens more "not start-ups". Or businesses.
That might be closer to the truth than you think - Facebook being the exception, as it's actually pulling in decent revenues at the moment.
Imagine if every business was operated on the same principles as these magic-beans business model start-ups.....
Imagine if every business was operated on the same principles as these magic-beans business model start-ups.....
And even in facebook's case: Revenue is one thing, profit is another...
"Businesses fail for one reason and one reason only. They spend more money than they make."
True, but that's not the definition of a business. Facebook and Twitter are certainly businesses. The "get users, figure out monetization" path is a real-business path (though I happen to think it's riskier).
True, but that's not the definition of a business. Facebook and Twitter are certainly businesses. The "get users, figure out monetization" path is a real-business path (though I happen to think it's riskier).
No hockey stick after 5 months? Yeah, time to quit and move on.
Seriously? 5 months? That's it? I would have killed for any media exposure and even 100 signups after 5 months. It took me at least that long just to get some small-time bloggers to take me seriously.
Unless you've seriously f-ed up (like emailing your entire userbase telling them "I quit, eat me."), then you've still got a userbase and a decent idea. I really doubt that it's commercially viable (didn't see a single mention of a revenue plan), but if you're just doing it for fun then push forward.
Seriously? 5 months? That's it? I would have killed for any media exposure and even 100 signups after 5 months. It took me at least that long just to get some small-time bloggers to take me seriously.
Unless you've seriously f-ed up (like emailing your entire userbase telling them "I quit, eat me."), then you've still got a userbase and a decent idea. I really doubt that it's commercially viable (didn't see a single mention of a revenue plan), but if you're just doing it for fun then push forward.
off-topic, but i love your design on obsidianportal.com.
OP here. First off, I see a lot of the comments have a very similar theme. 5 months is too soon to give up. Well, I haven't given up, I've only decided there is no business model without overhauling the concept (which I am not prepared to do for the moment).
I have watched traffic, and the habits of the users. The bounce rate could be lowered by tweaking some things, but there is not enough to bring users back on a weekly, or even monthly basis. I am open to suggestions, and will continue to watch my traffic. I have too many other decent ideas to sink more time into a fun site that has no business model (and don't tell me ad-supported is a valid option).
I have watched traffic, and the habits of the users. The bounce rate could be lowered by tweaking some things, but there is not enough to bring users back on a weekly, or even monthly basis. I am open to suggestions, and will continue to watch my traffic. I have too many other decent ideas to sink more time into a fun site that has no business model (and don't tell me ad-supported is a valid option).
Instead of shutting it down, you should leverage on your existing user-base for your next project. I actually had a similar experience, I created a hobby project as I learn RoR, and the project did take off with substantial traffic generated. However, the idea itself is not monetizable, other than pathetic AdSense. With this huge user base, I have created a second project, but this time with a solid business model before I started a single line of code. I'm channeling lots of traffic from the non-profitable project to the profitable one.
fwiw, I think you're doing absolutely the right thing. The opportunity cost of sticking with it is too high when you have better ideas to work on.
"The idea was that people could create discussions, and vote on things they prefer. Using that data, I would work hard at calculating compatibility."
That's the first thing that went wrong. I still don't have a clue what it is. Hackers hate marketing, but you can't ignore the part where you figure out how to describe your product in a way that makes sense/resonates.
That's the first thing that went wrong. I still don't have a clue what it is. Hackers hate marketing, but you can't ignore the part where you figure out how to describe your product in a way that makes sense/resonates.
Ryan, don't give up. At the very least, make the "Get Started" button bigger... I had to squint 5 times to figure out what your site is even about and how to get started!
But before anything else, think about your goals first, before you just jump straight into another idea. If you can think back to that first time you wrote that first line of code, and all the excitement you felt from the vision you painted in your head... you'll realize, this idea ain't over yet. You just forgot parts of the vision that was essential to making it a success....
But before anything else, think about your goals first, before you just jump straight into another idea. If you can think back to that first time you wrote that first line of code, and all the excitement you felt from the vision you painted in your head... you'll realize, this idea ain't over yet. You just forgot parts of the vision that was essential to making it a success....
5 months in?
Why not spend some more time fixing the problems of what went wrong?
Why not spend some more time fixing the problems of what went wrong?
That's one of the problems with going solo -- it's way too easy to chalk it all up as a good experience and move on to the next "killer idea," armed with what you supposedly learned last time.
I can say this because I'm just as guilty of doing this as this guy -- if not more so. And that's one of the reasons I'm now no longer going solo.
I can say this because I'm just as guilty of doing this as this guy -- if not more so. And that's one of the reasons I'm now no longer going solo.
FALSE. This has nothing to do with going solo. What he didn't do was go through a concrete thinking process in selecting the idea. He probably just "jumped right into coding" -- I've done this before too, we all have.
When you go through a real thinking process and tether yourself to a set of goals that your idea tries to solve, and write down why your solution is valuable, it will do MORE THAN SUFFICIENTLY pull you up during the down slopes, and will also help you objectively analyze your next steps.
He's not failing because he doesn't have another dumb shit next to him telling him to "keep going!" He's failing because he didn't start with a solid foundation and vision.
When you go through a real thinking process and tether yourself to a set of goals that your idea tries to solve, and write down why your solution is valuable, it will do MORE THAN SUFFICIENTLY pull you up during the down slopes, and will also help you objectively analyze your next steps.
He's not failing because he doesn't have another dumb shit next to him telling him to "keep going!" He's failing because he didn't start with a solid foundation and vision.
One suggestion: post your project on HN and see if someone contacts you about taking over, with a fresh perspective.
Definitely doing it alone is a recipe for failure. Two people are way better than one. When you get discouraged (which you are right now), it's the end because you have no moral support.
Any takers?
Definitely doing it alone is a recipe for failure. Two people are way better than one. When you get discouraged (which you are right now), it's the end because you have no moral support.
Any takers?
well to me by admitting he was using smoke and mirrors, doesn't seem like he had a compelling product in the first place. After looking at his product objectively, he should of carried out his own evaluation, of moving it to a service or facebook app, rather than abandoning it. As others have pointed out, he gave up to early
His site sounds like digg's recommendation system or what reddit tried to do with their recommendation system.
It's really hard to be second mover without a significantly better algorithm or lots of money. In the search engine space, Google had that better algorithm and Bing has lots of money and an equivalent algorithm. He had neither. So unless he was able to come up with a working "compatibility" algorithm, it was going to be a really though haul.
Chalk it up as a lesson learned. Good luck on your next startup. I appreciate the honesty. On my startup, I have to keep focusing on making the product work well rather than being distracted by those other "gaping loops" like scaling, marketing and monetization. Those are useless without the product.
It's really hard to be second mover without a significantly better algorithm or lots of money. In the search engine space, Google had that better algorithm and Bing has lots of money and an equivalent algorithm. He had neither. So unless he was able to come up with a working "compatibility" algorithm, it was going to be a really though haul.
Chalk it up as a lesson learned. Good luck on your next startup. I appreciate the honesty. On my startup, I have to keep focusing on making the product work well rather than being distracted by those other "gaping loops" like scaling, marketing and monetization. Those are useless without the product.
I wouldn't give up so early, try building your facebook app idea.
Wow, this site looks pretty cool. I would not give up so early.
5 months is a looooong time for a web app (assuming he was working on it full time)
eh, not really. most webapps visible today spent more than 5 months in development, and usually had a small team of developers. This is just 1 guy doing it for 5 months. LinkedIn didn't get any growth in it's first 5 months, and delicious spent a year before seeing much growth, so 5 months is nothing for a webapp.
Wow. I was about to start a site with exactly this idea. I guess I'll have to figure something else out :)
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5 months in seems fairly soon to throw in the towel. Did you lose interest in the concept, or was there some other reason for abandoning the project?