Shut Out at Home, Americans Seek Opportunity in China(nytimes.com)
nytimes.com
Shut Out at Home, Americans Seek Opportunity in China
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/11/business/economy/11expats.html
14 comments
They said that it was government data. For anyone who knows anything about China, that's a tip-off. Credulous reporting would leave that tidbit out and treat the statistic as fact.
For anyone who knows anything about China, that's a tip-off. It appears to me that the writer does not know anything about China then, because they make a non-obvious positive claim and then back it with government statistics.
[T]he Chinese economy is more hospitable for both entrepreneurs and job seekers, with [government lie]. Unemployment in urban areas is [government lie].
Absent the statistics, the "more hospitable" claim is the reporter pulling something totally out of their hindquarters to make the story work.
[T]he Chinese economy is more hospitable for both entrepreneurs and job seekers, with [government lie]. Unemployment in urban areas is [government lie].
Absent the statistics, the "more hospitable" claim is the reporter pulling something totally out of their hindquarters to make the story work.
Ambiguous reporting would also fail to specify which government's data.
Well it is probably correct. What they don't tell you here is that you technically need a permit to live in an urban city like Beijing. Indeed, you can't rise in any company without being a permanent resident of the city where it is based (or at least where your office is).
I've been working in Hong Kong for almost 6 months, and there definitely seems to be opportunity here. There is a lot more optimism than I've been seeing in the states when I go back, and software is perceived as an area in which the skill levels that you can find among the local Hong Kong population are lower than you would expect from westerners because there is such an emphasis on finance here.
Is Hong Kong still an appreciably freer market than mainland China? China has always seemed like it has problems with political corruption, to the point where having influence over the right people in the party/govt. is an essential business skill. How is Hong Kong on that?
There might be certain areas of the economy where this is the case but I haven't seen anything like that since I've been here. I work for a startup financial firm and we have no "local" partners I'm aware of. The regulatory requirements are similar to operating a financial business in the US or UK. The legal system here is based on common law, I'm able to read and understand contracts as well as I can in the states, and I've personally met people who received legal training in the UK and practice in Hong Kong. Frankly, I think the market here is appreciably freer than that in the US given that the taxes are much lower and the infrastructure is on par.
“It’s China’s fault that I’m still here,” he said. “It’s just so cheap to start a business.”
This is just an anecdote, but it really caught my attention and made me think about what the future may hold. That's a Harvard graduate who left the US and ended up starting a business in China.
This is just an anecdote, but it really caught my attention and made me think about what the future may hold. That's a Harvard graduate who left the US and ended up starting a business in China.
Is there a start-up scene in China?
I would think doing a web based company would be limiting if you have to deal with the government's internet policies.
I would think doing a web based company would be limiting if you have to deal with the government's internet policies.
most of Internet start-up here in China are, rip-off of existing sites and translate of interface and function.
And any user generated content is strictly forbidden by the government because eventually UGC will involve politics topics.
And corruption, you have to go through months apply process of a video site 'license', or blog site 'license' or news site 'license', and they are managed by different bureaucratic departments of the central government.
And big companies like QQ.com is likely to copy your idea and deploy it on their own QQ.com infrasture and overtake your start-up by one day.
So overall it's very hard to do start-ups in China, unless you have a very strong social background.
And any user generated content is strictly forbidden by the government because eventually UGC will involve politics topics.
And corruption, you have to go through months apply process of a video site 'license', or blog site 'license' or news site 'license', and they are managed by different bureaucratic departments of the central government.
And big companies like QQ.com is likely to copy your idea and deploy it on their own QQ.com infrasture and overtake your start-up by one day.
So overall it's very hard to do start-ups in China, unless you have a very strong social background.
I'm sorry, but nearly every single one of these statements is simply incorrect.
1. Chinese sites are all "[rip-offs] rip-off of existing sites and translate of interface and function"
When anybody comes up with a good idea, a dozen other people will try the same thing. Have you ever seen Freundfeed? How many blogging sites are there out there (livejournal, blogger, blogspot, wordpress)? Copying of your idea encourages competition and innovation.
Indeed, the reality is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you said: western companies fail here in China because they come and translate the interface and functionality, and then expect the locals to flock to their site and use it in the same way westerners would. They bring in a team of western managers to hire some locals to do the translation, and then basically sit there waiting for the $$ to roll in.
The problem is, the locals use the Internet in a radically different way from Westerners. The locals are nearly all kids, spend hours and hours a day in front of the computer, and are lonely and bored. (single child policy). They don't want to "connect" with their friends and post daily updates of what they're doing / eating for breakfast. They want to meet new people and play and talk about crap.
So, companies like xiaonei, that take the basic Facebook formula, but then add in tonnes of gaming and fun ways to interact with other people will of course kick the foreign companies' collective derrières. Ebay failed because they don't understand how locals pay for things. Taobao came along with a better idea and won the market.
2. "... any user generated content is strictly forbidden by the government ..."
China has a zillion BBSes (sorry, I don't have the exact number. It's huge). There are over 2 billion registered BBS users here in China - For only 300+ million internet users. People spend hours online with multiple accounts and personalities so that they can chat with their various girl- and boy- friends and take on different viewpoints in different places. (* note these are not old school dial-up BBSes but basically online community forum websites they just call BBSes).
People talk about politics all the time, either directly, or indirectly via codewords and the like. Avoid talking about organising large demonstrations and strikes, and you're likely to avoid the ire of any officials or censors.
Websites like Tudou.com, youku.com, and yupoo.com have massive massive massive amounts of content uploaded to them daily. Of course, lots of it is pirated TV and movies, but the locals are also constantly uploading the same kinda stuff you see on youtube and flickr. (Funny sidenote: the locals go to Herculean efforts to try and get around the ban on pr0n too. It turns out, they like it as much as anybody else in the world).
3. Months to get a license.
You can get an ICP, which is the local internet content license, in a matter of days. One of the big restrictions is that you usually need a local to do this registration for you. However, the reality of the matter is that few (if any) foreign companies succeed without local partners and the like here anyway (foreigners -really- don't get the local market), so it's not that onerous. Worst case, find somebody with a local husband or wife and just get them to help you with the whole process.
4. Companies copy your idea and overtake you.
What company in the US or Europe doesn't worry all the time that Google, Microsoft, or Apple isn't going to do the exact same thing? This is like saying "competition is bad". It's the cornerstone of what we're all doing here. And again, if your idea is good and you know what you're doing, you'll have a big edge over these guys. (There are one or two big examples to the contrary to what I've just said, but they're in court here in China and could very well go the way of the "little guy").
Every market in the world has its peculiarities, differences, and problems. China is no different. Look closer, spend some time really trying to understand the market, look at the numbers, and you'll find that this is a very fun place to do startups. Only 25% of the country is on the internet here right now. There are hundreds of millions of bored and lonely kids (and adults) who want to play and connect with others. The growth opportunities are staggering.
1. Chinese sites are all "[rip-offs] rip-off of existing sites and translate of interface and function"
When anybody comes up with a good idea, a dozen other people will try the same thing. Have you ever seen Freundfeed? How many blogging sites are there out there (livejournal, blogger, blogspot, wordpress)? Copying of your idea encourages competition and innovation.
Indeed, the reality is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you said: western companies fail here in China because they come and translate the interface and functionality, and then expect the locals to flock to their site and use it in the same way westerners would. They bring in a team of western managers to hire some locals to do the translation, and then basically sit there waiting for the $$ to roll in.
The problem is, the locals use the Internet in a radically different way from Westerners. The locals are nearly all kids, spend hours and hours a day in front of the computer, and are lonely and bored. (single child policy). They don't want to "connect" with their friends and post daily updates of what they're doing / eating for breakfast. They want to meet new people and play and talk about crap.
So, companies like xiaonei, that take the basic Facebook formula, but then add in tonnes of gaming and fun ways to interact with other people will of course kick the foreign companies' collective derrières. Ebay failed because they don't understand how locals pay for things. Taobao came along with a better idea and won the market.
2. "... any user generated content is strictly forbidden by the government ..."
China has a zillion BBSes (sorry, I don't have the exact number. It's huge). There are over 2 billion registered BBS users here in China - For only 300+ million internet users. People spend hours online with multiple accounts and personalities so that they can chat with their various girl- and boy- friends and take on different viewpoints in different places. (* note these are not old school dial-up BBSes but basically online community forum websites they just call BBSes).
People talk about politics all the time, either directly, or indirectly via codewords and the like. Avoid talking about organising large demonstrations and strikes, and you're likely to avoid the ire of any officials or censors.
Websites like Tudou.com, youku.com, and yupoo.com have massive massive massive amounts of content uploaded to them daily. Of course, lots of it is pirated TV and movies, but the locals are also constantly uploading the same kinda stuff you see on youtube and flickr. (Funny sidenote: the locals go to Herculean efforts to try and get around the ban on pr0n too. It turns out, they like it as much as anybody else in the world).
3. Months to get a license.
You can get an ICP, which is the local internet content license, in a matter of days. One of the big restrictions is that you usually need a local to do this registration for you. However, the reality of the matter is that few (if any) foreign companies succeed without local partners and the like here anyway (foreigners -really- don't get the local market), so it's not that onerous. Worst case, find somebody with a local husband or wife and just get them to help you with the whole process.
4. Companies copy your idea and overtake you.
What company in the US or Europe doesn't worry all the time that Google, Microsoft, or Apple isn't going to do the exact same thing? This is like saying "competition is bad". It's the cornerstone of what we're all doing here. And again, if your idea is good and you know what you're doing, you'll have a big edge over these guys. (There are one or two big examples to the contrary to what I've just said, but they're in court here in China and could very well go the way of the "little guy").
Every market in the world has its peculiarities, differences, and problems. China is no different. Look closer, spend some time really trying to understand the market, look at the numbers, and you'll find that this is a very fun place to do startups. Only 25% of the country is on the internet here right now. There are hundreds of millions of bored and lonely kids (and adults) who want to play and connect with others. The growth opportunities are staggering.
This link should get you past the registration: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/11/business/economy/11expats....
It's the same link?!
Credulously reporting unemployment statistics from the US government is naive. Credulously reporting unemployment statistics from a Communist dictatorship is journalistic malpractice.