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Asm2D

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Asm2D
·4 maanden geleden·discuss
It would be great if Meta was able to sustain to support more open source projects, especially those they benefit from.

For example they use AsmJit in a lot of projects (both internal and open-source) and it's now unmaintained because of funding issues. Maybe they have now internal forks too.
Asm2D
·4 maanden geleden·discuss
That's interesting - 200kB should not be a big deal for it - maybe it uses something that I usually don't, like many function calls, or insane number of branches, etc... I would be interested in that case, but I'm not sure whether I would be able to blindly improve AsmJit without a comprehensive test.

Definitely good to know though. When it comes to low-latency compilation my personal goal is to make it even faster when generating small functions.
Asm2D
·4 maanden geleden·discuss
Indeed, but this also means that you would get drastically different performance on platforms that have more physical registers vs on platforms that have less. For example x86_64 only has 16 GP registers, while AArch64 has 32 - if you use 25 registers without any analysis and just go to stack with 10 of them, the difference could be huge.

But... I consider SLJIT to be for a different use-case than AsmJit. It's more portable, but its scope is much more limited.
Asm2D
·4 maanden geleden·discuss
AsmJit has only one place where a lot of time is spent - bin-packing. It's the least optimized part, which has quadratic complexity (at the moment), which starts to show when you have like hundreds of thousands of virtual registers. There is even a benchmark in AsmJit called `asmjit_bench_regalloc`, which shows that a single function that has 16MB alone, with 65k labels and 200k virtual registers takes 2.2 seconds to generate (and 40ms of that is time to just call `emit()`).

If this function is optimized, or switched to some other implementation when there is tens of thousands of virtual registers, you would get orders of magnitude faster compilation.

But realistically, which query requires tens of megabytes of machine code? These are pathological cases. For example we are talking about 25ms when it comes to a single function having 1MB of machine code, and sub-ms time when you generate tens of KB of machine code.

So from my perspective the ability to generate SIMD code that the CPU would execute fast in inner loops is much more valuable than anything else. Any workload, which is CPU-bound just deserves this. The question is how much the CPU bound the workload is. I would imagine databases like postgres would be more memory-bound if you are processing huge rows and accessing only a very tiny part of each row - that's why columnar databases are so popular, but of course they have different problems.

I worked on one project, which tried to deal with this by using buckets and hashing in a way that there would be 16 buckets, and each column would get into one of these, to make the columns closer to each other, so the query engine needs to load only buckets used in the query. But we are talking about gigabytes of RAW throughput per core in this case.
Asm2D
·4 maanden geleden·discuss
Because pg_jitter uses AsmJit's Compiler, which also allocates registers. That's much more work than using hardcoded physical registers in SLJIT case. There is always a cost of such comfort.

I think AsmJit's strength is completeness of its backends as you can emit nice SIMD code with it (like AVX-512). But the performance could be better of course, and that's possible - making it 2x faster would be possible.
Asm2D
·4 maanden geleden·discuss
I write JITs so I know, but I always try to write in a way that even non-JIT people can understand :)
Asm2D
·4 maanden geleden·discuss
If I recall research papers regarding Umbra it's also using AsmJit as a JIT backend, which means that theoretically the compilation times would be comparable if you only consider code emitting overhead.

The problem will always be queries where the compilation is orders of magnitude more expensive than the query itself. I can imagine indexed lookup of 1 or few entries, etc... Accessing indexed entries like these are very well optimized by SQL query engines and possibly make no sense JIT optimizing.
Asm2D
·4 maanden geleden·discuss
Many SQL engines have JIT compilers.

The problems related to PostgreSQL are pretty much all described here. It's very difficult to do low-latency queries if you cannot cache the compiled code and do it over and over again. And once your JIT is slow you need a logic to decide whether to interpret or compile.

I think it would be the best to start interpreting the query and start compilation in another thread, and once the compilation is finished and interpreter still running, stop the interpreter and run the JIT compiled code. This would give you the best latency, because there would be no waiting for JIT compiler.
Asm2D
·6 maanden geleden·discuss
How JIT kills compatibility if it's only enabled on x86 and aaarch64? You can compile Blend2D without it and it would just work.

So no, it doesn't kill any compatibility - it only shows a different approach.

BTW GPU-only renderers suck, and many renderers that have GPU and CPU engines suck when GPU is not available or have bugs. Strong CPU rendering performance is just necessary for any kind of library if you want true compatibility across various platforms.

I have seen many many times broken rendering on GPU without any ability to switch to CPU. And the biggest problem is that more exotic HW you run it on, less chance that somebody would be able to fix it (talking about GPUs).
Asm2D
·6 maanden geleden·discuss
I think Vello CPU would always struggle with raster images, because it does a bounds check for every pixel fetched from a source image. They have at least described this behavior somewhere in Vello PRs.

The obsession for memory safety just doesn't pay off in some cases - if you can batch 64 pixels at once with SIMD it just cannot be compared to a per-pixel processor that has a branch in a path.
Asm2D
·6 maanden geleden·discuss
Adding a power draw into the mix is pretty interesting. Just because a GPU can render something 2x faster in a particular test doesn't mean you have consumed 50% less power, especially when we talk about dedicated GPUs that can have power draw in hundreds of watts.

Historically 2D rendering on CPU was pretty much single-threaded. Skia is single-threaded, Cairo too, Qt mostly (they offload gradient rendering to threads, but it's painfully slow for small gradients, worse than single-threaded), AGG is single-threaded, etc...

In the end only Blend2D, Blaze, and now Vello can use multiple threads on CPU, so finally CPU vs GPU comparisons can be made more fairy - and power draw is definitely a nice property of a benchmark. BTW Blend2D was probably the first library to offer multi-threaded rendering on CPU (just an option to pass to the rendering context, same API).

As far as I know - nobody did a good benchmarking between CPU and GPU 2D renderers - it's very hard to do completely unbiased comparison, and you would be surprised how good the CPU is in this mix. Modern CPU cores consume maybe few watts and you can render to a 4K framebuffer with that single CPU core. Put rendering text to the mix and the numbers would start to be very interesting. Also GPU memory allocation should be included, because rendering fonts on GPU means to pre-process them as well, etc...

2D is just very hard, on both CPU and GPU you would be solving a little bit different problems, but doing it right is insane amount of work, research, and experimentation.
Asm2D
·6 maanden geleden·discuss
You need to rerun the benchmarks if you want fresh numbers. The post was written when Blend2D didn't have JIT for AArch64, which penalized it a bit. Also on X86_64 the numbers are really good for Blend2D, which beats Blaze in some tests. So it's not black&white.

And please keep in mind that Blend2D is not really in development anymore - it has no funding so the project is basically done.
Asm2D
·6 maanden geleden·discuss
You know nothing.

Skia is definitely not a good example at all. Skia started as a CPU renderer, and added GPU rendering later, which heavily relies on caching. Vello, for example, takes a completely different approach compared to Skia.

NV path rendering is a joke. nVidia though that ALL graphics would be rendered on GPU within 2 years after making the presentation, and it took 2 decades and 2D CPU renderers still shine.
Asm2D
·6 maanden geleden·discuss
Blend2D doesn't benchmark against GPU renderers - the benchmarking page compares CPU renderers. I have seen comparisons in the past, but it's pretty difficult to do a good CPU vs GPU benchmarking.