shmat · HackerTrans

6 jaar geledendiscuss

I read a study that said that in your native language you only need to hear 1/3 - 1/2 of the syllables and your brain will automatically fill in the rest, which is why you can understand conversations in a noisy environment. In a foreign language, unless you've achieved a very high level, you need to hear everything so noisy environments are a problem.

shmat

6 jaar geledendiscuss

Krashen never said that you can learn to speak and write just by listening and reading. He has said that it's a waste of time to speak too early, before you have understood a lot of input. You still have to produce a lot to get better at it. There's also a huge number of studies that show that people who read a lot in their native language speak and write better and studies that show the same effect when learning foreign languages. There's also the practical point that it's useless to be able to speak well if you can't understand the responses you get.

shmat

6 jaar geledendiscuss

Thanks. Good luck to you as well. You said in your post that listening comprehension was your weakest skill. Are you listening to more and different content? I've found some podcasts that include people with different French regional accents (not Québecois) and I've found that helps even if I struggle sometimes with them.

shmat

6 jaar geledendiscuss

Production is absolutely important, but harder to do. I talk to 3 French people every week, 30 minutes in French in exchange for 30 minutes in English. I also have conversations with myself in French (like a schizophrenic). Where I have been lazy is writing. I need to write more and get it corrected.

shmat

6 jaar geledendiscuss

That's one thing I disagree with in the original post. Like you, I created my own Anki deck and I'm convinced it's a better way to learn.

shmat

6 jaar geledendiscuss

We certainly haven't mastered language teaching, at least at public schools. What I remember most is being tested on verb conjugations of irregular verbs. Worst possible way to learn a language.

shmat

6 jaar geledendiscuss

I completely agree that there is a huge gap between B2 and that level you describe as automatic. I'm currently trying to bridge that gap, but I can't live in France so I think it will take me years. I know people who have done it without immersion, so I know it's possible. My solution is to "immerse" myself at home. I do 90% of my reading in French. 90% of the podcasts I listen to are in French. I watch French TV shows and YouTube channels. I listen to French whenever I'm driving, exercising, doing errands, cooking, cleaning, etc. I'm also spending 3 weeks a year in France. That's not full immersion but it helps. When I'm in France, I stay with French speaking hosts and do tours in French. I avoid English at all costs. It'll be interesting to see how far I can get.

shmat

6 jaar geledendiscuss

I studied French from 7th-12th grade in an American High School. After that, I could not understand any French beyond "bonjour". I could not have a conversation in French. I could conjugate verbs and I could read some. Fast forward 45 years and I retired and decided to actually learn French. I followed a very, very similar method and after 9 months of self study took a 2 week intensive course in France where I was told I was at B2 level. Obviously I didn't start at A0 but when I first started with Duolingo, I remembered nothing. 45 years is a long gap. What he describes works. Even an old fart like me can get to B2 level with self study if they are motivated and use good resources. It's never been easier to learn a language with all the excellent resources available.

shmat

7 jaar geledendiscuss

My experience as a language learner (French) supports the study. When I use English (native language) subtitles, my listening doesn't improve at all. However, my improvement with or without French subtitles depends on my level of comprehension. If I can understand most of the show without subtitles (~60% or more) I improve faster without subtitles. If I understand half or less, I improve with the subtitles. I guess this is evidence for Stephen Krashen's theory of comprehensible input.

shmat

7 jaar geledendiscuss

Sometimes new techniques turn out to be a disaster. I-495 in Massachusetts was built using a new technique for concrete roadways. Concrete is normally not used to build roads in New England because it doesn't handle frost heaves. The new technique "solved" that problem. The result was that every inch of I-495 has had to be rebuilt. Even worse, the first "rebuild" was to lay asphalt over the concrete and then subsequently everything had to be ripped out and done again.

shmat

7 jaar geledendiscuss

I've worked with Swedes, and they were all basically bilingual in English. Except for a bit of an accent, their English was better than many native speakers. Of course, my sample size is only 20, but I was impressed. I was told that many schools in Sweden dedicate one school day a week to English with all subjects being taught in English during that day. Those students end up fluent.

shmat

7 jaar geledendiscuss

I wonder how much of the adult language learning research is like the research on physical fitness. There's decades of research about the precipitous decline in fitness and strength that comes with age. More recent research shows that the decline had more to do with decades of an increasingly sedentary lifestyle than physical decline. Yes, a fit 60 year old is less fit than a fit 30 year old, but still may be quite fit. Probably the decline in ability to learn languages is real but may not be nearly as pronounced as some studies show.

shmat

7 jaar geledendiscuss

When I first started learning French, I watched videos intended for French kids and I picked up a lot quickly. The biggest problem for me was, unlike a kid, I couldn't stand to watch them for very long. As an adult, boredom set in pretty quickly and thus loss of focus. However, it was still very useful until I got to a level where I could understand more adult content. It was certainly more useful than most traditional language learning materials.

shmat

7 jaar geledendiscuss

I started learning French 20 months ago at age 63. I've gone from beginner to B2 (upper intermediate) level in that period. It takes a lot of time. I immerse myself as much as possible. Whenever I'm doing chores, cooking, walking I listen to French podcasts. I watch French YouTube channels. In the evening I watch French TV shows and documentaries. I talk to French people regularly on Skype. I read French novels and French newspapers. Essentially, I try to live as if I were in France. It's working. I have the huge advantage of being retired, so I have more time and I'm kind of obsessive about achieving goals. If you put in the time, you can become fluent in a foreign language at any age, especially with all the resources on the internet.

shmat

7 jaar geledendiscuss

Learning morse code directly from audio is absolutely essential. Once you have learned all the characters by sound, I found it helpful to listen to code at a faster level than you can handle. You will miss characters, but I found it speeds up your ability to copy well. For example, back when I was taking morse code tests for licenses, I would listen to code at 20 wpm to prepare for the 13 wpm test and 30 wpm to prepare for the 20 wpm test. The tests seemed easy. BTW, I cannot read morse code without making the sounds in my head from the visual representation.

comments