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vandermik

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vandermik
·4 jaar geleden·discuss
> Gorbachev himself admitted there was no such formal agreement.

"There would be no extension of NATO’s jurisdiction for forces of NATO one inch to the east," Secretary of State James A. Baker told Mr. Gorbachev in 1989

The National Defense archives of George Washington University declassified this discussion on 12 December 2017. You can look it up.
vandermik
·4 jaar geleden·discuss
> Ukraine has no chance of joining NATO too (and never did while the conflict in eastern Ukraine continued).

Then why not declare it on paper with both Ukraine and NATO guarantees? That's all Russia wanted during negotiations last few months.

> NATO troops are already on their borders in the Baltics.

Yes, and Russia been told for many years it will not happen. That's why Russia now wants it to be legally declared. Not just promise.
vandermik
·4 jaar geleden·discuss
I was thinking you mentioned some fake "genocide" happened during the last 10 years. Both Russia and Ukraine blame this on each other sometime.

Yes, Holodomore did happened, and like it mentioned in the article it was only a part of a huge Soviet famine of 1932–1933 which affected not only ukranians but almost all nations in the south part of USSR including russians.

It's a shame that modern Russia not recognized this as a genocide, and not only ukranian genocide. Because it really happened. 100 years ago. Under USSR and Joseph Stalin.

So, if that is a valid point for Ukraine to join NATO now, would it be fair to Mexico to join Russia Military Alliance, because they will tell the world, they suddenly afraid of USA expansion and following culture suppression? I mean, what USA did to native americans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_removal
vandermik
·4 jaar geleden·discuss
What makes you think that? Are we discussing "Understanding the War in Ukraine" or calling each other names?

I'm not support this war in any sense. But at least I understand the reasons behind it.

I'm actually not awared of any sign of genocide from russians to ukranians (and vice verse). If you do, plese enlight me.
vandermik
·4 jaar geleden·discuss
sure, and good thing neither did happen
vandermik
·4 jaar geleden·discuss
> but Mexico somehow regained independence, would it really sound so strange if Mexico started seeking alliance with China to prevent it from happening again?

Absolutely not, and Ukraine has all the legal rights to do it. But that changes nothing to Russian perspective. Russia just will not allowed it. Same as US not allowed Cuba to place soviet nukes no matter what.
vandermik
·4 jaar geleden·discuss
US can elect a president that could actually build a wall
vandermik
·4 jaar geleden·discuss
Mexico was used in that analogy just because it's on US borders.

If this analogy seems unrealistic to you, try replace Mexico with Cuba. Could two independent countries (USSR and Cuba) agreed to place nukes close to US borders in the 60's? Legally, sure they can. Does US agree with it? Even if WW3 was the case they will never allowed it.

Same thing now with Ukraine. If Ukraine joins NATO, their troops will be on russia south border, which is unacceptable for Russia. And russian government thinks about it as an existential threat. Invasion is the direct result of failed negotiations between Russia and NATO about Ukraine neutrality.
vandermik
·4 jaar geleden·discuss
The good analogy on Ukraine crisis. Imaging if Mexico joined Russian military alliance (created specifically against US) and decided to put Russian troops and bases on their territory. What would happened to Mexico? Would US allowed that?
vandermik
·4 jaar geleden·discuss
To get better understanding what's really driving Russian government and Putin I strongly recommend to watch this talk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X7Ng75e5gQ