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wwalker3

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wwalker3
·4 jaar geleden·discuss
That's a great article! 1) I'd seen a lot of other cool stuff from the same author over the years (see https://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/README.html), but had somehow missed this one.

1) "Struggles with the Continuum" by John Baez
wwalker3
·4 jaar geleden·discuss
If you use the theory of nonlinear partial differential equations to analyze the behavior of compressible materials, you can find what are called the "characteristic" speeds, which are the speeds that various types of waves propagate at.

Compressible materials tend two have two different characteristic speeds, one for sound waves and one for shock waves.

The speed of sound basically works out to speed = sqrt(stiffness / density). So as a material gets stiffer, the speed of sound goes up. An infinitely stiff (i.e. incompressible) material by implication would have an infinite speed of sound, though this can't happen in any real material.

Shock waves travel faster than sound, at a speed related to the pressure difference across the shock. The greater the pressure difference, the faster the shock travels. So if you had an infinite pressure difference, you could have an infinitely fast shock wave, but again this can't happen in the real world.

However, sound and shock speeds only apply to pressure waves in a material. Other influences like gravity and electromagnetism travel at the speed of light. So for example, if you're doing fluid dynamics for plasma, then you'll have a third characteristic speed, the speed of light, because of the charged nature of the material attracting and repelling itself.

There are also more exotic characteristics, like the speed of a propagating combustion front in a flammable material. But when you get to this level you're no longer just solving one simple set of differential equations.
wwalker3
·4 jaar geleden·discuss
If mathematicians could solve these kinds of problems, they could answer valuable questions like "Will this equation always have a physically meaningful solution?" If the answer was "No", then we would know that the equation can't be a faithful model of reality.

We already know that the incompressible Euler equations can't be a faithful model, for reasons I've mentioned elsewhere in the thread. But I think the hope is that if they can answer these questions for incompressible Euler, then they can eventually extend their techniques to more complex fluid equations like Navier-Stokes, which people generally assume (but can't yet prove) is physically reasonable.

Simulation has great practical value, but it doesn't give you any guarantees about the behavior of the solutions for all the cases you haven't actually tried.
wwalker3
·4 jaar geleden·discuss
It's the equations themselves that are singular. When we write simulators, we usually have to paper over the singularities that are inherent in the math.

For example, if you're simulating charged particles moving around, and you use a force equation F = k q1 q2 / d^2 (1), then when d approaches 0 (i.e. when the distance between particles approaches zero), then the force F goes to infinity.

For atoms, it works the same way. If you use a force law like Lennard-Jones (2), it also has the interatomic distance in the denominator, so the equation has a singularity baked right in.

You could always adopt a more complex force equation that doesn't have a singularity in it. But in practice, it's easier to use a simple but singular equation, and then selectively ignore its bad behavior.

1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coulomb%27s_law

2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interatomic_potential
wwalker3
·4 jaar geleden·discuss
The density can be constant, but it doesn't have to be. If the density field starts out with some variation in it, then those variations move around as the fluid flows. Incompressibility just means that those density variations can't get bigger or smaller, they can only move, shear, and rotate.
wwalker3
·4 jaar geleden·discuss
Pretty much any mathematical model of a real phenomenon can have some sort of singularity or discontinuity in it.

If you model atoms as dimensionless points (1), then any kind of force law with the distance between atoms in the denominator can lead to a singularity when that distance is zero. In practice, you write the simulator to disallow this, but it's still there in the equations, you're just ignoring it.

If you model your atoms as finite-sized but incompressible billiard balls, then when they hit each other it's a discontinuity, since they instantly change direction when they collide. These collisions conserve total momentum and energy, but they're unphysical because real physical quantities can't jump from one value to another (in classical physics).

Even if you model your atoms as little rubber balls, the model can still be singular. Linear elasticity (the most common choice) allows you to compress a finite-sized object down to zero size with finite energy, which yields infinite energy density. Again, you'd have to disallow that in the simulator, which is very practical, but not theoretically satisfying.

1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_dynamics is the typical method of atomistic simulation.

2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_elasticity
wwalker3
·4 jaar geleden·discuss
Wow, I'm honored :) These days, I try to only comment when an article is really in my wheelhouse, but that's not very often, given my narrow interests in fluid dynamics and computational physics.
wwalker3
·4 jaar geleden·discuss
The incompressible Euler equations model a fluid as a two-valued field. This means that at every point in space, the field has two values, density and velocity (1).

To me (2), a singularity in a field like this means that one or more of the field values "blows up", i.e. goes to infinity as you run the time variable forward.

But how could this ever happen? The Euler equations model the "conservation" (i.e. constant-ness) of three real physical quantities: mass, momentum, and energy. If these three quantities are finite and constant when you add them up over the whole field, how can any part of it "blow up" into an infinite value?

The answer is that the blow-up must occupy a volume that shrinks as the blow-up grows, so the conserved quantities are still constant. The singularity would be infinitely small in space, and have an infinite value of density or velocity (or both).

The hard question is, are these blow-ups merely artifacts of a particular numerical simulation technique, or are they essential somehow to the incompressible Euler equations themselves? That's what these papers are trying to figure out.

To me, an "essential" (i.e. inherent-in-the-equations) blow-up seems intuitively reasonable because of the acausal nature of the field. When you simulate the incompressible Euler equations, it superficially looks like it's a physical fluid doing physical-fluid things, swirling and flowing around. But in a real fluid, a change in one part of the fluid propagates to the other parts at finite velocity, creating real cause and effect.

An Euler fluid's time evolution is not a phenomenon that ripples forward through time in a normal way. Instead, every point in the fluid responds to every other point simultaneously. If you poke a cube of incompressible Euler fluid with your finger, there is no pressure wave that ripples through it, where the fluid parcels push each other along and get out of each other's way. Instead, the whole cube of fluid somehow instantly adopts a new flow pattern that conserves mass/momentum/energy in response to that finger-poke.

1) Note that velocity is a vector, since it has a direction. This means that in 2D the velocity is two numbers, and in 3D it's three numbers. So technically the 3D incompressible Euler equations have four values at every point: one density, and three velocity components, one each in the x, y, and z directions.

2) I'm a numerical simulation guy, not a mathematician. Real math experts have rigorous definitions of a singularity, e.g. in https://arxiv.org/pdf/2203.17221.pdf "Singularity formation in the incompressible Euler equation in finite and infinite time," Theodore D. Drivas and Tarek M. Elgindi.
wwalker3
·4 jaar geleden·discuss
The question that the referenced paper (1) is trying to answer is "do the 3D incompressible Euler equations develop a finite time singularity from smooth initial data of finite energy?" This is an important question in the theory of nonlinear partial differential equations, but is probably not as relevant to real fluid flow as a lay reader might imagine.

The incompressible Euler equations model a very strange and unphysical kind of fluid. Incompressibility means that the speed of wave propagation in such a fluid is infinite, which means that normal causality is not respected. Effects in such a fluid happen simultaneously with their causes.

For example, if you apply a force to one end of a pipe full of Euler fluid, the fluid instantly starts coming out of the other end of the pipe, with no time taken for this effect to propagate from one end of the pipe to the other. You could use a long pipe full of Euler fluid as a superluminal communication device!

Intuitively, it seems reasonable that in such an unphysical fluid, it would be possible to form a singularity even from smooth initial conditions. The difficulty, of course, is proving that intuition, which is what the paper is trying to do.

1) https://arxiv.org/pdf/2210.07191.pdf "Stable nearly self-similar blowup of the 2D Boussinesq and 3D Euler equations with smooth data", Jiajie Chen and Thomas Y. Hou.