Movebubble, an app that aims to make renting in London suck less, raises $1.6M(techcrunch.com)
techcrunch.com
Movebubble, an app that aims to make renting in London suck less, raises $1.6M
http://techcrunch.com/2016/02/15/movebubble/
50 comments
This doesn't appear to solve the real issues I have with flat-hunting in London, namely that the agents are terrible people, and that it's impossible to search for the things you want. You can't search for "is not falling apart", "has internet over 2Mbps", "has a supermarket nearby", or "is under a 30 min commute for these 2 offices". These are the things I care about, but no one is solving these as issues.
Equally noise levels between flats and houses, some you can hear a pin drop next door others you can hold a party without disturbing neighbours- whole aspect overlooked and no rating system, unlike heat loss.
Add to that:
Landlord is not a criminal
Does not have rats
Landlord is not a criminal
Does not have rats
I don't think London's rental market problems can be solved by startups, at least not beyond what's already been achieved.
The Deposit Protection Scheme was introduced in 2007, and that made a huge difference. Landlords could no longer expect to steal deposits.
There's already schemes to license landlords renting a "House for Multiple Occupancy", whose definition varies by area. Typically, it's 3 or more people who aren't related to each other. This should be extended to all landlords.
I lived in an illegally converted flat for a year, though I didn't realise it. At the end of the year, an inspector from the council appeared, and said there shouldn't be a "37A", "37B", "37C", but just a "37". The house had been converted without planning permission _fifteen years earlier_.
3 million Londoners weren't born in the UK, and in my experience are less aware of the rights they do have. I don't know how to solve that one.
But 39% of Tory MPs, and 22% of Labour MPs, are landlords, so I don't expect the situation to change. [1]
[1] http://www.theguardian.com/housing-network/2016/jan/14/mp-la...
The Deposit Protection Scheme was introduced in 2007, and that made a huge difference. Landlords could no longer expect to steal deposits.
There's already schemes to license landlords renting a "House for Multiple Occupancy", whose definition varies by area. Typically, it's 3 or more people who aren't related to each other. This should be extended to all landlords.
I lived in an illegally converted flat for a year, though I didn't realise it. At the end of the year, an inspector from the council appeared, and said there shouldn't be a "37A", "37B", "37C", but just a "37". The house had been converted without planning permission _fifteen years earlier_.
3 million Londoners weren't born in the UK, and in my experience are less aware of the rights they do have. I don't know how to solve that one.
But 39% of Tory MPs, and 22% of Labour MPs, are landlords, so I don't expect the situation to change. [1]
[1] http://www.theguardian.com/housing-network/2016/jan/14/mp-la...
Is not next to a squat
Not a council house
Was not previously occupied by criminals
It doesn't have elderly neighbours
No kebab / chicken shops within x metres
Not a council house
Was not previously occupied by criminals
It doesn't have elderly neighbours
No kebab / chicken shops within x metres
I'm curious - why would you not want elderly neighbours?
Because some are difficult - for example being nosy, over-sensitive to noise and so on.
Everyone can be difficult - I rented a room in London where the guy below us had a habit of playing shooter games on his home cinema system around 10-11 pm. During those hours, it felt like living in the warzone (constant loud explosions, shooting etc.)
That is true, but I found out that issues with living among elderly neighbours are much more troubling. So I would like to filter that out if I was ever to look for a flat again.
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Hi Dan, Aidan here from Movebubble. We are working really hard to listen to all you renters out there facing problems. We will be adding more features like you have suggested in the next few months. We are working hard for renters to solve the problems you mentioned and trying to making renting better for all of you. If want to come along to our user sessions please get in touch.
The issue with the websites already in use by agents is that the property is almost always out-of-date.
Agents are not incentivised towards keeping listings fresh. It's better for them if they can tell the person that gets in contact that it's "just gone" and hem-and-haw about how the market is very hot at the moment. They can then show you a selection of over-priced, not as attractive properties and try to extract a purchase from a slightly more anxious version of you.
I'm not sure if this is solvable with an app to be honest. And, you will be competing against listings with attractive-looking properties that aren't actually on the market, so on the surface-level won't look as good. Good luck!
Agents are not incentivised towards keeping listings fresh. It's better for them if they can tell the person that gets in contact that it's "just gone" and hem-and-haw about how the market is very hot at the moment. They can then show you a selection of over-priced, not as attractive properties and try to extract a purchase from a slightly more anxious version of you.
I'm not sure if this is solvable with an app to be honest. And, you will be competing against listings with attractive-looking properties that aren't actually on the market, so on the surface-level won't look as good. Good luck!
If renters can report a place as "gone" and once a few of those reports are in, the place gets delisted (or, at least, visibly marked as "reported gone" and removed from searches) will encourage agents to keep things up-to-date.
Doesn't really encourage them - if anything it gives them an excuse to never take down out-of-date listings if users are doing it for them (eventually).
Hi Aidan, would definitely be interested in coming to a user session, this is a problem I'd love to see solved! Will get in touch.
I think a lot of the issues would be solved by moving the power from the agents and lettings management services to the tenants and landlords. OpenRent is already trying to do this, and I've had good experiences with them so far.
I think a lot of the issues would be solved by moving the power from the agents and lettings management services to the tenants and landlords. OpenRent is already trying to do this, and I've had good experiences with them so far.
I'd feel more excited about something that comes up with a way to completely get rid of agents. In my opinion, services for letting should look at establishing a more transparent and direct operating channel between the tenants and landlords. The paperwork is generally standard. There are deposit protection schemes to protect the tenant's deposit. Landlords can directly get in touch with agencies that do reference checks and property damage checks before and after tenancy. This information can be made available on the app/website for those interested. If an app makes it easy enough to do all this, even for the not so tech-savvy (these are the types of landlords I've come across through agents), this letting agency menace can be gotten rid of altogether. I always thought this was the point of using the internet for property letting. Of course, my opinion is biased from the point of view of someone who has not had such a good experience with letting agents.
I know openrent.co.uk is trying to head in that direction. Universities also have their own housing departments that put students in touch with prospective landlords who have registered with them at no cost at all to either party. Maybe employers/corporates could also start doing the same.
I know openrent.co.uk is trying to head in that direction. Universities also have their own housing departments that put students in touch with prospective landlords who have registered with them at no cost at all to either party. Maybe employers/corporates could also start doing the same.
Agents are mostly there to promote the property and conduct viewings. Many landlords don't have the time or inclination to handle that side of things. Software can do a lot of the agent's work, but not all of it for all people.
The reference checks are just profit centres for the agents, so they actually want you to overpay for a new check each time.
The reference checks are just profit centres for the agents, so they actually want you to overpay for a new check each time.
Also, a lot of the landlors just live outside of London (usually in a cheaper city/country).
Unless you change the quantity and quality of rental flats available in London, you will not make it suck less; you will just make the existing suck happen faster.
There is no shortage of estate agents, in fact it's often said that there are too many. There's no lack of aggregation sites either.
There is no shortage of estate agents, in fact it's often said that there are too many. There's no lack of aggregation sites either.
I disagree. I think that if you have listings with two flats side by side for £1700pcm and one of them has a review with photos showing mold and cramp and the other has a review saying it was OK then you will start to force a price differential and eventually will force landlords and agents to stop being so crap.
Personally I'm hoping these guys launch their solution and fix the issues in the next few weeks (lol) as I'm about to dive back into that particular abyss (no lol).
Personally I'm hoping these guys launch their solution and fix the issues in the next few weeks (lol) as I'm about to dive back into that particular abyss (no lol).
The reality of London is that even the property with mould and crap won't be on the market for long enough for somebody to bother reviewing it if it's in a popular area.
Unlike other reviewed products, properties are exclusive and don't regularly appear on the market, and there are very strong incentives for people that want to bid the price up or down to lie.
Unlike other reviewed products, properties are exclusive and don't regularly appear on the market, and there are very strong incentives for people that want to bid the price up or down to lie.
The one with reviews for mold and other horrible stuff will probably just deactivate their account and create a new one without the bad reviews or photos.
If your site doesn't let them do this then they'll just list on a different site.
If your site doesn't let them do this then they'll just list on a different site.
Hi, I agree we cant solve the supply and demand issue around renting a property but we can make it such more transparent, Personal and renter friendly. We are not an estate agent or an aggregation site. Movebubble is here to help and put renters first! we are building products that will enable to renters to have a much more efficient process to rent a property and help them waste less time during this stressful period.
Thankfully I'm not in that market now, but I hear things from friends who are.
What makes finding a rental flat stressful and a waste of time is the process of chasing down suitable leads and getting a deposit in before anyone else does. Speeding that up for everyone is not going to make it less stressful, is it?
What makes finding a rental flat stressful and a waste of time is the process of chasing down suitable leads and getting a deposit in before anyone else does. Speeding that up for everyone is not going to make it less stressful, is it?
What is the concrete difference between you and an estate agent or aggregation site?
Apart from we are 100% focused on looking out for the renters. We do not make money from agents or landlords therefore are here to innovate for the renters. So of the key product feature are...
- Renters helping renters to provide real time property availability via sharing data in the app.
- Booking and schedule viewings via the app.
- Rating agents/properties to help other renters get better experience.
- Shortly you will be able to rent the property via the app.
This is an easy problem to solve, and others have pointed out what needs to happen.
1. Provide automatic contract and deposit protection flows into the middle
2. Renters and landlords should both be credit-checked and reviewed by others. If guarantors are necessary, manage that process and credit check them too.
3. Provide check-in/check-out inventories that can be ticked off and checked by all parties.
This is 90% of the value letting agents provide.
The rest is about better listings themselves: commute times to key locations; what broadband options and speeds are available in that location; the average price and food safety rating of local pubs, cafes, restaurants and takeaways; crime rates; ambulance response times; council tax rates (everybody forgets these and then gets surprised unless they move to LBH&F which has some of the lowest in the country); parking details and costs; night bus routes in the vicinity; voting histories in recent elections; and so on.
All of this data is out there, and easy to build tools for and it's the only way to make things better AND get rid of the letting agency model that needs to happen almost urgently.
Just providing a veneer over the letting agent? Doomed to fail like so many that have come before it.
1. Provide automatic contract and deposit protection flows into the middle
2. Renters and landlords should both be credit-checked and reviewed by others. If guarantors are necessary, manage that process and credit check them too.
3. Provide check-in/check-out inventories that can be ticked off and checked by all parties.
This is 90% of the value letting agents provide.
The rest is about better listings themselves: commute times to key locations; what broadband options and speeds are available in that location; the average price and food safety rating of local pubs, cafes, restaurants and takeaways; crime rates; ambulance response times; council tax rates (everybody forgets these and then gets surprised unless they move to LBH&F which has some of the lowest in the country); parking details and costs; night bus routes in the vicinity; voting histories in recent elections; and so on.
All of this data is out there, and easy to build tools for and it's the only way to make things better AND get rid of the letting agency model that needs to happen almost urgently.
Just providing a veneer over the letting agent? Doomed to fail like so many that have come before it.
You mean like OpenRent [1]?
OpenRent is the largest agency in the UK. Why? Because it solves these pain points, and does so at scale.
There a few steps you've missed out, like giving tenants protection against bad data and rogues (not solved by typical classifieds) - and fulfilling the other legal requirements for landlords (gas safety certs, etc). So whilst perhaps not an easy problem to solve (many have tried and failed), there is a solution already in the market.
What is the number 1 tenant complaint? Admin fees. Something also solved by OpenRent, along with removing dead listings and providing a transparent process.
[1] - https://www.openrent.co.uk
OpenRent is the largest agency in the UK. Why? Because it solves these pain points, and does so at scale.
There a few steps you've missed out, like giving tenants protection against bad data and rogues (not solved by typical classifieds) - and fulfilling the other legal requirements for landlords (gas safety certs, etc). So whilst perhaps not an easy problem to solve (many have tried and failed), there is a solution already in the market.
What is the number 1 tenant complaint? Admin fees. Something also solved by OpenRent, along with removing dead listings and providing a transparent process.
[1] - https://www.openrent.co.uk
"it’s not currently possible to actually rent a property through the Movebubble app"
So this is just another aggregator like Rightmove? They're promising real-time availability information, but why would a letting agent update the availability on Movebubble and not Rightmove? What makes it more likely to be real-time than any other aggregator?
So this is just another aggregator like Rightmove? They're promising real-time availability information, but why would a letting agent update the availability on Movebubble and not Rightmove? What makes it more likely to be real-time than any other aggregator?
>> "The problem with Rightmove and Zoopla is that they don’t see the renter through to the point of viewing properties – renters have to ring up so many different estate agents (there are over 2,000 in London) that it’s nearly impossible to keep track of bookings and you have to note down all these details elsewhere"
This is a problem? I've rented several times in London, including recently. Calling someone and writing a time down in your calendar is not a problem. I also don't see how feedback/review or properties is going to be useful. People have very different expectations. When moving and renting out my old room I've had people think the place was amazing and others think it was terrible. You need to see places yourself, in person. Honestly I think the whole 'renting in London is hard' thing is overblown. I'm working on a pretty low budget and I can find rooms that are good enough for me quite easily. I've also gone through the process of renting an entire apartment (as opposed to just a room) and it's even easier. You call several estate agents, tell them your budget and requirements, and when something comes up they call you. And it's free.
This is a problem? I've rented several times in London, including recently. Calling someone and writing a time down in your calendar is not a problem. I also don't see how feedback/review or properties is going to be useful. People have very different expectations. When moving and renting out my old room I've had people think the place was amazing and others think it was terrible. You need to see places yourself, in person. Honestly I think the whole 'renting in London is hard' thing is overblown. I'm working on a pretty low budget and I can find rooms that are good enough for me quite easily. I've also gone through the process of renting an entire apartment (as opposed to just a room) and it's even easier. You call several estate agents, tell them your budget and requirements, and when something comes up they call you. And it's free.
Having just finished this process (found a flat 2 days ago), I couldn't disagree more. Finding a flat was essentially a full time job for me for a week. Agents don't respect your time, or your budget, the good stuff isn't on Rightmove because it's gone by the time the agent gets around to adding it, viewings have to be within 48 hours or else the place is gone, etc. It's honestly one of the most stressful things I have to do. (although I don't think this app solves that)
>I also don't see how feedback/review or properties is going to be useful.
If there were a public 'issue tracker' for properties that would be very useful. Seeing how quickly and how well Landlords respond to things like a broken heating system or mold would be invaluable when finding a place to live, and having this information made public would also kick some of them into action.
Similarly, if renters could have their payment history tracked so landlords know that they pay on time and that previous landlords didn't have any disputes with you, that would be invaluable.
If there were a public 'issue tracker' for properties that would be very useful. Seeing how quickly and how well Landlords respond to things like a broken heating system or mold would be invaluable when finding a place to live, and having this information made public would also kick some of them into action.
Similarly, if renters could have their payment history tracked so landlords know that they pay on time and that previous landlords didn't have any disputes with you, that would be invaluable.
>Movebubble, the startup that wants to make renting in London suck a little less, has picked up $1.6 million in further funding, bringing total investment to just over $3.4 million.
>Meanwhile, it’s not currently possible to actually rent a property through the Movebubble app
So I guess the MVP didn't include actually helping people rent a place and getting their perspective on the entire process in a "real world" sense before raising $3.5m?
Disclosure: I work for jumpshell (https://www.jumpshell.com/), where we are launched in Boston and Chicago and people can actually complete the rental process through the platform as well getting your feedback about the entire process so we can better align the incentives of the different market participants.
>Meanwhile, it’s not currently possible to actually rent a property through the Movebubble app
So I guess the MVP didn't include actually helping people rent a place and getting their perspective on the entire process in a "real world" sense before raising $3.5m?
Disclosure: I work for jumpshell (https://www.jumpshell.com/), where we are launched in Boston and Chicago and people can actually complete the rental process through the platform as well getting your feedback about the entire process so we can better align the incentives of the different market participants.
This is just another front for slimy estate agents.
Hi Ciudilo,
I'm Nick from Movebubble. I understand why you'd be sceptical about the app simply taking estate agent properties and passing them along to users. But our model is renter first. We don't make any money from agents. We work very hard to make sure we deal with agents that offer a good service for renters. We are also continually monitoring property listings to help ensure they are good quality and of a certain standard.
So where does the money come from? The tenants?
This TechCrunch and the app was presented at a TC disrupt event. You can't expect criticism from them.
Will the rate stats include the history of rent increases? Or for that matter how the landlord behaved when the previous tenant moved out? Rental market in London is an absolute car crash. Most of us don't even bother doing anything about how we're treated and so the next tenant will have no way of knowing what they'll encounter within or at the end of their tenancy. I hope this app will make some difference but the best fix to London rental market bug is to move out of London.
As a software developer, living in London, who was in the process of finding a new flat until 2 days ago, this was not marketed particularly well! I'm right in the middle of the target market and have never heard of this.
You're right. We're just starting to get our message out there with an increased focus on marketing. You will hopefully see and hear about us more over the coming weeks/months.
Is there no way to search for properties on a desktop computer, or am I an idiot?
Well. As a small landlord in Watford, I'd rather appreciate the service that brings me good tenants. Non smoking (hash included), tolerable to kids next door and caring for a shared garden.