Mike Judge, the Bard of Suck(nytimes.com)
nytimes.com
Mike Judge, the Bard of Suck
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/13/magazine/mike-judge-the-bard-of-suck.html
73 comments
I think Mike Judge's humor lands best with people who recognize the behavior on the screen as driven by impulses they feel in themselves. It simultaneously gratifies those impulses and teaches us what the world looks like without the moderating influences of culture and experience. "Beavis and Butt-Head" is a celebration of crudity, a lesson in empathy and humility, and a reminder that "refinement" and "education" are not just silly, fancy things but aspects of every person's experience. The distance between us and Beavis and Butt-Head was created by myriad formative experiences with parents, friends, teachers, and culture, who not only influenced us directly but also taught us which influences to be open to. If you take perverse delight in their misadventures then you truly know: there but for the grace of good fortune go I.
This may be the most intelligent paragraph ever written with the word "Butt-Head" in it.
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I really like a some of Mike Judges work but B&BH is not part of that.
Where is the humor in killing an ant with a magnifying glass.
I see were it was heading/went for the better but no. Don't like B&BH.
It was a non clever, be cruel but true to parady show to start IMO. It had truths but not cleverness.
Where is the humor in killing an ant with a magnifying glass.
I see were it was heading/went for the better but no. Don't like B&BH.
It was a non clever, be cruel but true to parady show to start IMO. It had truths but not cleverness.
I think you were not the target demographic, so it doesn't make sense to you. If you were never an unpopular, troublemaking loser (the kind that Beck sang about), there is a lot of stuff you wouldn't get.
Interesting read, although it's mostly a (deserved) pat on the back kind of article.
But they completely leave out King of the Hill?!?!
But they completely leave out King of the Hill?!?!
>If you set aside his long-running TV show “King of the Hill,” which is much too loving to be considered satire, Judge’s corpus of work cleaves neatly into two pieces.
Set it aside? Having grown up in that region of Texas it certainly is (wonderfully) satirical to me. It certainly isn't a hateful satire, but "too loving to be considered satire" misses it. In an otherwise very good article I'm also surprised by such a dismissal of a huge part of hit work.
Set it aside? Having grown up in that region of Texas it certainly is (wonderfully) satirical to me. It certainly isn't a hateful satire, but "too loving to be considered satire" misses it. In an otherwise very good article I'm also surprised by such a dismissal of a huge part of hit work.
It was too accurate. Growing up in Texas, I couldn't watch it for a long time because I didn't see where the humor was - it was just a show about people who were like my neighbors.
Yeah, I don't know how it plays to out-of-staters, but there comes a point where a weekly KotH was too much.
Sorta like it is hard to rewatch Office Space or Idiocracy. Have to be in the right mood, every 4 or 5 years. OS was filmed in my neighborhood and until the credits rolled I thought Stephen Root (Milton) was a former coworker (physical doppelgänger) where we literally had a TPS form.
Going out for lunch with coworkers, "I hope Judge isn't sitting behind us" became a thing people would say. Freakish accuracy.
Sorta like it is hard to rewatch Office Space or Idiocracy. Have to be in the right mood, every 4 or 5 years. OS was filmed in my neighborhood and until the credits rolled I thought Stephen Root (Milton) was a former coworker (physical doppelgänger) where we literally had a TPS form.
Going out for lunch with coworkers, "I hope Judge isn't sitting behind us" became a thing people would say. Freakish accuracy.
When I saw OS in the theater my jaw was in my lap the entire time, because I had worked with a slightly taller version of Peter. Disaffected guy who dressed the same, had the same haircut, talked constantly about leaving, took the wall off his cube to see out the window. Same lip curl when he was about to lose it.
I had the exact same experience, but now that I revisit it after a decade living in California, I find it hilarious.
it's funny cause it's true
Agreed! I grew up outside Fort Worth, and a lot of the jokes, characters, and scenes in King of the Hill (like Silicon Valley) hit painfully close to home
As someone with no experience in that region, and as someone whose taste is much more toward the satirical (Seinfeld, Family Guy, Simpsons), I have a hard time trying to recall anything satirical in KotH.
Instead, I consider KotH to be similar to the Cosby Show, Roseanne, or even All in the Family - a respectful look at the type of family that was not historically portrayed in TV or the movies.
Instead, I consider KotH to be similar to the Cosby Show, Roseanne, or even All in the Family - a respectful look at the type of family that was not historically portrayed in TV or the movies.
> a huge part of hit work
Freudian slip of the most correct kind. It really was a hit, very odd to ignore it (fellow Texan here).
Freudian slip of the most correct kind. It really was a hit, very odd to ignore it (fellow Texan here).
I know right? People like to focus on Idiocracy because they want to segueway into their issue with modern life they find idiotic. Lapsing over a 13 season home run is just ponderous though, especially since they mentioned Milton and B&B. I suppose the guy is just so prolific many people love him for different works and different reasons. I'm a fan boy of pretty much everything he's done.
Even just the one running thread of "propane and propane accessories" through King of the Hill paints a deep satirical portrait of middle class salesmanship, an equal to (if not a successor/better) "Death of a Salesman". I'd even possible put it up against Vonnegut's Breakfast of Champions for levels of grim pathos and determination despite broken systems that don't allow for advancement while claiming that they do.
All of that seems like hyperbole perhaps, but it's an admirable trait to King of the Hill that it can inspire such questions and discussions... and that's just one of the many long-running satire threads in King of the Hill.
All of that seems like hyperbole perhaps, but it's an admirable trait to King of the Hill that it can inspire such questions and discussions... and that's just one of the many long-running satire threads in King of the Hill.
> segueway
Just so you know, "segue" is pronounced "seg-way" by itself. No need to throw an additional "way" on the end.
Just so you know, "segue" is pronounced "seg-way" by itself. No need to throw an additional "way" on the end.
> they completely leave out King of the Hill?!?!
cause this is a PR piece for the new season of silicon valley
cause this is a PR piece for the new season of silicon valley
It doesn't fit the article's thesis.
I find that it neatly fits the thesis; "King of the Hill" is a delightful satire of the inhabitants of a sleepy Texas town, and it's clearly influenced by Judge's time in Texas the same way that "Silicon Valley" was influenced by his time in the Bay, and Judge himself has confirmed this.
I think that it makes coastal city folk uncomfortable to talk about and celebrate KotH because satirizing urban Texan values, beliefs, and practices is self-seen as aggrandizing city-slicker behavior.
I think that it makes coastal city folk uncomfortable to talk about and celebrate KotH because satirizing urban Texan values, beliefs, and practices is self-seen as aggrandizing city-slicker behavior.
Kenneth from 30 Rock doesn't make them uncomfortable. They don't get KotH because they don't get the humor. Because they don't get lower middle class red state suburban culture. They see it as an absence of culture. They'd rather move to New Zealand (another HN thread that's going on right now) than learn about domestic cultures.
Oh puh-leeeeeeeeze, KotH has a broad appeal and heaps of "city slickers" watched and enjoyed it without irony or disdain for the characters. People haven't been completely retarded by living in cities, most of the stories in the KotH are fundamentally human and very relatable.
Apparently Willy Staley of the New York Times missed all the satire in KotH. Someone in the critical analysis business who understood towns like Garland, TX well wouldn't dismiss the satire in KotH offhand. Shows can be relatable and funny and still be misunderstood.
And I don't think cities necessarily corrupt people somehow. Obviously Garland itself is part of the DFW metroplex! It's probably more that people with a certain brand of cosmopolitan ethnocentrism end up in (or stay in) coastal cities.
And I don't think cities necessarily corrupt people somehow. Obviously Garland itself is part of the DFW metroplex! It's probably more that people with a certain brand of cosmopolitan ethnocentrism end up in (or stay in) coastal cities.
People know it's very dry, that's why they like it. You're not giving the viewers enough credit.
aanm1988(1)
There is a really great story on Fresh Air about how Mike Judge's neighbors fixed his fence for him. It provided inspiration for the Hank Hill character.
http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?story...
http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?story...
I fucking love Mike Judge, King of the Hill is one of the best shows of all time.
I have frankly no idea what to make of the show. It feels so alien it might as well be european.
Agreed. King of the Hill is amazing and is always underrated.
I'd love to see Mike Judge team up with Trey Parker and Matt Stone on a project.
Id imagine it would be a instant classic, hilarious hard-hitting social commentary.
Id imagine it would be a instant classic, hilarious hard-hitting social commentary.
It seems to me that Mike Judge doesn't actually need Trey Parker and Matt Stone to do this (having done it several times already).
Judge has way, way more heart that Parker and Stone put together, and I think that relation would probably doom any project between them. Unlike P/S, Mike Judge is never mean.
If you ask me, I'd suggest he do something with Mike Mills.
If you ask me, I'd suggest he do something with Mike Mills.
Technically they already have. Mike Judge was the voice of Kenny in the South Park movie.
He moved to Silicon Valley, where he lasted three months each at two different jobs. In a way, he felt tricked. When he was growing up in Albuquerque, everyone told him that if he wanted a lucrative and satisfying career, all he had to do was get a technical degree. “Guidance counselors just pound it into us: science, college, science,” he says. But he had a technical degree and could barely afford his rent. His next-door neighbor worked as an auto mechanic, and not only did he make more money than Judge, but he kept flexible hours and seemed to be substantially happier.
Makes one wonder if his next door neighbor was the inspiration for the character Lawrence in Office Space.
From the article: "He would serve as inspiration for Lawrence, the construction-worker neighbor in “Office Space”"
That's what I get for reading the comments before the article. Lawrence was a great character, and his reaction to the hypothetical about being asked about "having the case of the Mondays"[0] is classic.
0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4B0pLDqYqI
0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4B0pLDqYqI
That would make sense. Lawrence was a construction worker. Peter was shown at the end of the film blissfully working in his hard hat alongside Lawrence, "This ain't so bad huh? Makin' bucks. Gettin' exercise. Workin outside..."
That's the mythology Judge tells. In reality he worked in tech for less than a year, and quit because he wanted to be an artist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Judge#Early_life_and_educ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Judge#Early_life_and_educ...
Ironically I feel like I'm cheating my company by taking in six figures while just coding.... and even then, nothing that matters. And i haven't the degree.
He was lied to. What matters are skills. Schools barely teach them anymore.
He was lied to. What matters are skills. Schools barely teach them anymore.
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Life imitates art, which makes Mike Judge more of a perpetrator than a chronicler.
I never understood this, "Let's blame Nietzsche for the holocaust" mentality.
Only if you think he has in any way been causal.
One problem with satire (or cynicism in general) is that it's a cheap way to feel smart about one's self. Idiocracy really seems to have been designed to encourage this in people. However, the movie is divided into two parts, the first five minutes and the next eighty-five. The first part is basically an advertisement for eugenics, and the rest is slapstick. People always feel smart because they "get" the second part.
I disagree. Idiocracy IMHO was designed to show one possible result - in satirical form - of the race to the bottom that we see every day.
If it's a "cheap way to feel smart", then perhaps those that feel smart merely by watching the movie don't realize they are part of it.
Others don't need to feel smart, and simply find it funny and disquieting. I thought it was a brilliant satire when I watched it some years ago.
If it's a "cheap way to feel smart", then perhaps those that feel smart merely by watching the movie don't realize they are part of it.
Others don't need to feel smart, and simply find it funny and disquieting. I thought it was a brilliant satire when I watched it some years ago.
By any measure, people are smarter today than they ever have been in the past.
I suspect we are better educated overall, but people are not "smarter".
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/are-you-smarter...
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/are-you-smarter...
> I disagree. Idiocracy IMHO was designed to show one possible result - in satirical form - of the race to the bottom that we see every day.
It's pretty disturbing that it explicitly endorses eugenics to do that, though.
Edit: If you disagree, please explain how "the world is going to hell because stupid people are breeding too much" isn't eugenics.
It's pretty disturbing that it explicitly endorses eugenics to do that, though.
Edit: If you disagree, please explain how "the world is going to hell because stupid people are breeding too much" isn't eugenics.
That's not the definition of eugenics. Eugenics implies taking deliberate action to influence the gene pool in a direction that you believe/hope will be beneficial.
Because eugenics means doing something about it, usually with state power. Also, eugenics is the negation of the movie's premise, not the movie's premise.
Perhaps they would encourage smart people to go against their instincts and breed more.
That's eugenics, yes. And, just to be clear, it wouldn't actually work, because the whole decline-of-society thing that we're annoyed about is cultural, not genetic, and doesn't work the way you think it does. https://xkcd.com/603/
I couldn't agree more about your analysis of Idiocracy. While the movie is entertaining, I found it surprising that it ignored the developing world (where intelligence/IQ/appropriate-proxy is increasing and poverty decreasing).
The whole movie seemed to be a cheap dig on stereotypes of rural/redneck behavior rather than any meaningful look at society. The conclusion that it hand-holds the audience is that the "wrong" kind of Americans don't respect intellectuals enough and they will ruin the country. The movie literally ends by the educated savior being respected for being smart.
I don't agree with your indictment of satire in general; I consider Idiocracy to be pretty ham-fisted in that regard. Especially compared to much better Mike Judge works like Office Space and Silicon Valley.
The whole movie seemed to be a cheap dig on stereotypes of rural/redneck behavior rather than any meaningful look at society. The conclusion that it hand-holds the audience is that the "wrong" kind of Americans don't respect intellectuals enough and they will ruin the country. The movie literally ends by the educated savior being respected for being smart.
I don't agree with your indictment of satire in general; I consider Idiocracy to be pretty ham-fisted in that regard. Especially compared to much better Mike Judge works like Office Space and Silicon Valley.
You're missing a big aspect of it: what about the ownership corporations have over society? That has nothing to do with "dumb rednecks", and it's certainly not subtle. From Carl's Jr. taking custody of a woman's children, many people named after brands, the diatribe on Brawndo owning the FCC and FDA, the Costco law school, language ("Listen, I supersize with you but you broke the law"), etc.
I thought the main point of the movie was that people's intelligence deteriorated past the point to recognize that they had lost their agency. Mocking lowbrow culture was an aspect of the satire, but I didn't see it as the main point.
I thought the main point of the movie was that people's intelligence deteriorated past the point to recognize that they had lost their agency. Mocking lowbrow culture was an aspect of the satire, but I didn't see it as the main point.
Thanks, I had missed that aspect of the movie in my analysis. To me the eugenics premise overshadowed the things you mention.
Indeed, the fact that the entire economy is managed by automation and is outside of the control of actual people was an interesting look at the future.
Indeed, the fact that the entire economy is managed by automation and is outside of the control of actual people was an interesting look at the future.
Yeah, I agree that the beginning feels very eugenics-y, but it evolves into something that is in some ways a more crass, pessimistic version of Wall-E.
Of all the great filter scenarios, that's one of the less horrifying.
Of all the great filter scenarios, that's one of the less horrifying.
An apparent life lesson for Mike Judge: if you posit a bunch of "scary" stuff and associate it to stupidity, people will feel smart about being scared of the stuff even if it's implausibly ridiculous because it's in service of a comedy film.
Satire is not a form of cynicism.
Shut up. You went to a 4th rate school and are a 4th rate intellect doing backend web dev because you are 4th rate. Accept your lot in life, swallow it, and move on.
> talks about cheap ways to feel smart by posting scathing commentary on hacker news
Please don't. If you have a substantive point to make, make it thoughtfully; otherwise please don't post until you do.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html
This was a substantive critique and well made. The grandparent post was barbed; people who dish out criticism must be willing to have it served back to them.
If that's the game you want to play, or watch, HN is not the place. Here the game is de-escalation. It's sort of like leaving a campsite in better shape than you found it.
The problem with trading barbs is that it triggers worse and ends in doom. There's plenty of room for critique that doesn't destroy the threads.
The problem with trading barbs is that it triggers worse and ends in doom. There's plenty of room for critique that doesn't destroy the threads.
I don't think you understood my point, Dan. You're not engaged in de-escalation, but in validating whoever goes low first by picking on the person who points out their behavior.
It's essentially the same as putting the blame for a schoolyard fight on the person who threw the last punch rather than the one who initiated the conflict. It creates an incentive for people to talk negatively knowing that the consequences of any conflict are more likely to fall upon those who challenge the negative behavior.
You're a good moderator but I've seen you do this many times (>10) and I'd like you to think about that.
It's essentially the same as putting the blame for a schoolyard fight on the person who threw the last punch rather than the one who initiated the conflict. It creates an incentive for people to talk negatively knowing that the consequences of any conflict are more likely to fall upon those who challenge the negative behavior.
You're a good moderator but I've seen you do this many times (>10) and I'd like you to think about that.
How exactly are comments like the one at the top of this chain constructive? It's been downvoted and people have responded in ways which do break the rules.
It's essentially saying if you like this movie, you are either a moron or support eugenics.
Earlier in the thread there is a post basically saying that people don't like KotH because they are arrogant coastal elitists who shit on small town culture because they don't understand it.
It's essentially saying if you like this movie, you are either a moron or support eugenics.
Earlier in the thread there is a post basically saying that people don't like KotH because they are arrogant coastal elitists who shit on small town culture because they don't understand it.