Amazon changes its review policy(madgeniusclub.com)
madgeniusclub.com
Amazon changes its review policy
https://madgeniusclub.com/2017/12/10/amazon-review-policy-change-more/
34 comments
> The moment you find a review with several pictures and paragraph-separated long texts you know it's a paid review with zero value.
Not always. I've seen tons of critical two- or three-star reviews that were multiple paragraphs and had pictures detailing the issues with the product. Piss off the right person with a shitty product or even an unfortunate lemon, and you'll get lambasted for it.
And then there's people like me; I don't review Amazon purchases often, maybe one in 20 items, but when I do I write a detailed review because either the item greatly impressed me, or seriously pissed me off. I've never done a compensated review (I wouldn't even know how to start doing that) and the few times a negative review resulted in a seller offering to refund or replace in exchange for five stars and a positive review, I've refused.
Only once did I change a review after interacting with a seller, and I left the entire negative text intact with an addendum stating their customer service was helpful and polite, and I was raising from two stars to three solely because their customer service attitude and promises to improve the product made up for the quality control issues in my mind. I did this without the seller requesting it, but they were greatly appreciative and refunded my purchase without me even asking for it.
Not always. I've seen tons of critical two- or three-star reviews that were multiple paragraphs and had pictures detailing the issues with the product. Piss off the right person with a shitty product or even an unfortunate lemon, and you'll get lambasted for it.
And then there's people like me; I don't review Amazon purchases often, maybe one in 20 items, but when I do I write a detailed review because either the item greatly impressed me, or seriously pissed me off. I've never done a compensated review (I wouldn't even know how to start doing that) and the few times a negative review resulted in a seller offering to refund or replace in exchange for five stars and a positive review, I've refused.
Only once did I change a review after interacting with a seller, and I left the entire negative text intact with an addendum stating their customer service was helpful and polite, and I was raising from two stars to three solely because their customer service attitude and promises to improve the product made up for the quality control issues in my mind. I did this without the seller requesting it, but they were greatly appreciative and refunded my purchase without me even asking for it.
In fairness - it's sometimes pretty fun to write a review for something. I kind-of enjoy it - probably why I'm also a prolific commenter on reddit and (less so) here.
Have never been compensated for a review. (Or a comment on HN or Reddit for that matter).
Have never been compensated for a review. (Or a comment on HN or Reddit for that matter).
> Not always. I've seen tons of critical two- or three-star reviews that were multiple paragraphs and had pictures detailing the issues with the product. Piss off the right person with a shitty product or even an unfortunate lemon, and you'll get lambasted for it.
Because those are irate customers who actually paid for the product and feel ripped off. I agree with OP: far more common are gushing, think pieces about how great this product that they got for free is. Often they disclose this fact but in many cases it seems they don't. The unbridled venality feels pathetic, like monkeys trained to do a dumb trick in return for more peanuts.
Because those are irate customers who actually paid for the product and feel ripped off. I agree with OP: far more common are gushing, think pieces about how great this product that they got for free is. Often they disclose this fact but in many cases it seems they don't. The unbridled venality feels pathetic, like monkeys trained to do a dumb trick in return for more peanuts.
You're assuming a review wasn't paid just because it is critical? Competitors pay for critical reviews too.
There are probably reviewers in good conscience and those who take advantage of the system.
The main problem compared to other environments is that reviewers on Amazon have no real accountability: try to sing praises of a bad videogame or movie as a journalist or youtuber and you'll be instantly known as a shill and a sellout.
On Amazon, more than taking a mental note of particularly suspect reviewers, there is really little you can do.
The main problem compared to other environments is that reviewers on Amazon have no real accountability: try to sing praises of a bad videogame or movie as a journalist or youtuber and you'll be instantly known as a shill and a sellout.
On Amazon, more than taking a mental note of particularly suspect reviewers, there is really little you can do.
For sure, the other typical 'long reviewers' are the 'Vine hopefuls'. People trying to build a reputation for good / helpful reviews so they can get 'free stuff' from the Vine program (where Amazon sends you products, ostensibly 'on (indefinite) loan') to review.
>> ostensibly 'on (indefinite) loan') to review.
They're yours to keep, although they reserve the right to ask you to send them back within 6 months (never happened with me). You can't give them away (you're expected to dispose/recycle them) and you're not allowed to post reviews of those products in other places, although I've seen that happen.
They're yours to keep, although they reserve the right to ask you to send them back within 6 months (never happened with me). You can't give them away (you're expected to dispose/recycle them) and you're not allowed to post reviews of those products in other places, although I've seen that happen.
I agree. The biggest problem is "I received this product in exchange for a fair and honest review" bullshit. Is Amazon doing anything to stop that?
Absolutely. Reviews get purged all the time, you simply don't see them because you're not actively monitoring them.
Amazon tends to remove reviews in waves. I suspect this is so that they can use known fraudulent reviewers to catch unknown fraudulent reviewers.
As a seller, it was a great day to see my number one and two competitor have their product reviews dropped to almost 0 overnight. I didn't lose a single review. I hope Amazon keeps up what they're doing because it will only make things better.
P.S. Other things to look at are:
1. Many reviews in a short time frame (Only 1-3% of people leave a product review, so if you see 20 reviews in 3 days, they would have needed to sell almost 700 units! Not impossible for a very well established product, but a new one? Almost impossible, report it.)
2. The very first reviews. These are almost always fake and unverified. No one ever looks for this but it is the most common indicator in my experience of faked reviews given how low the bar is.
After protecting yourself, protect others! The best thing you can possibly do is to report violations!
Amazon tends to remove reviews in waves. I suspect this is so that they can use known fraudulent reviewers to catch unknown fraudulent reviewers.
As a seller, it was a great day to see my number one and two competitor have their product reviews dropped to almost 0 overnight. I didn't lose a single review. I hope Amazon keeps up what they're doing because it will only make things better.
P.S. Other things to look at are:
1. Many reviews in a short time frame (Only 1-3% of people leave a product review, so if you see 20 reviews in 3 days, they would have needed to sell almost 700 units! Not impossible for a very well established product, but a new one? Almost impossible, report it.)
2. The very first reviews. These are almost always fake and unverified. No one ever looks for this but it is the most common indicator in my experience of faked reviews given how low the bar is.
After protecting yourself, protect others! The best thing you can possibly do is to report violations!
>> 2. The very first reviews. These are almost always fake and unverified. No one ever looks for this but it is the most common indicator in my experience of faked reviews given how low the bar is.
The unverified part is no longer true. A lot of companies now get reviewers to buy the product from Amazon and reimburse them for their costs via PayPal. So in general, when it comes to obscure Chinese brands, you can't trust the Verified Purchase label any more. I stopped doing incentivized reviews with the rule changes, but I know that's how they operate, as I've had many offers to go the PayPal route.
I rely too much on Amazon for my own purchases, and it wasn't worth getting banned from reviewing for that.
The unverified part is no longer true. A lot of companies now get reviewers to buy the product from Amazon and reimburse them for their costs via PayPal. So in general, when it comes to obscure Chinese brands, you can't trust the Verified Purchase label any more. I stopped doing incentivized reviews with the rule changes, but I know that's how they operate, as I've had many offers to go the PayPal route.
I rely too much on Amazon for my own purchases, and it wasn't worth getting banned from reviewing for that.
Yup, this is true as well. I could go on and on about all the stuff I see happen.
What you're talking about tends to happen over facebook or wechat. But there are "Amazon Launch Services" which are far more pervasive in my experience. You'll find countless services like Viral Launch, JumpSend, etc. that find some way to make it hassle free to get those first few crucial reviews.
The funniest thing I've ever seen happen is one person was scamming the sellers. They would place the order, get paid via PayPal, and then cancel the Amazon order. It was cathartically beautiful.
What you're talking about tends to happen over facebook or wechat. But there are "Amazon Launch Services" which are far more pervasive in my experience. You'll find countless services like Viral Launch, JumpSend, etc. that find some way to make it hassle free to get those first few crucial reviews.
The funniest thing I've ever seen happen is one person was scamming the sellers. They would place the order, get paid via PayPal, and then cancel the Amazon order. It was cathartically beautiful.
> The very first reviews. These are almost always fake and unverified.
Possibly for new items in the mainstream.
However for the long-tail of niche items the plurality of my Amazon reviews were the first and often they remain the only, particularly for older or out-of-print books.
Possibly for new items in the mainstream.
However for the long-tail of niche items the plurality of my Amazon reviews were the first and often they remain the only, particularly for older or out-of-print books.
Books are a very different beast. What I'm talking about is PL goods where you'll take $item and make it $item by CamelCaseName.
Books on the other hand are probably sold by sellers who bought them used/returned/wholesale and are flipping them. They could care less about your product review because they almost always have only one or two copies.
Books on the other hand are probably sold by sellers who bought them used/returned/wholesale and are flipping them. They could care less about your product review because they almost always have only one or two copies.
Generally when banning things it is better to do it in waves because it decouples the triggers you used to detect the bad action from the ban. You as the person doing the banning don't want to create a tight feedback loop that allows the bad actor to test out their various "attacks" against your banning system.
>> The biggest problem is "I received this product in exchange for a fair and honest review" bullshit. Is Amazon doing anything to stop that?
Those are legacy reviews. You're not allowed to do that anymore [source: I used to write incentived reviews]. Amazon has deleted a lot of reviews like that with their new rule changes.
The problem is not "I received this product in exchange for a fair and honest review" -- that statement is a result of Amazon's old rules, which required disclosure. This is not very different from a product getting a Vine review (I was also a Vine reviewer for a time). Vine reviews tend to skew to the positive side in spite of Amazon telling reviewers to be honest (but to be fair, most of the Vine stuff I was getting were indeed good products).
Not all reviewers who used that boilerplate disclosure statement were dishonest reviewers (I would like to think I was honest, but everyone's entitled their own perspective).
In my case - I didn't accept everything that was offered to me, just stuff that looked like it was decent quality that I thought I would like. I reviewed everything in the context of their selling price. Most of the stuff I got sold for cheap, and were surprisingly good for that price. The higher the price of the product, the more critical I was. I'm not going to review a $20 fitness band with the same critical eye as a $300 band, because in general, you do get what you pay for.
The required disclosure of "I received this product in exchange for a fair and honest review" is actually useful, because it's a signal to review readers that the review is incentivized. What companies are doing now is getting reviewers to buy the products to get "Verified Purchaser" status and paying them back via PayPal. That has made it MUCH worse than before, because people assume that a Verified Purchase review is safe.
Having said all of that, Amazon does have its fair share of shady reviewers. Most of the reviewers who were higher ranked than me were still getting free review products after the rule changes. The main difference was that they were no longer disclosing that fact. I could tell who they were because of the products they were reviewing often mapped to offers I was getting from companies wanting me to do the Paypal workaround.
The weirdest thing that happened after the rule change and my incentivized reviews were wiped was that my reviewer ranking went up significantly.
Those are legacy reviews. You're not allowed to do that anymore [source: I used to write incentived reviews]. Amazon has deleted a lot of reviews like that with their new rule changes.
The problem is not "I received this product in exchange for a fair and honest review" -- that statement is a result of Amazon's old rules, which required disclosure. This is not very different from a product getting a Vine review (I was also a Vine reviewer for a time). Vine reviews tend to skew to the positive side in spite of Amazon telling reviewers to be honest (but to be fair, most of the Vine stuff I was getting were indeed good products).
Not all reviewers who used that boilerplate disclosure statement were dishonest reviewers (I would like to think I was honest, but everyone's entitled their own perspective).
In my case - I didn't accept everything that was offered to me, just stuff that looked like it was decent quality that I thought I would like. I reviewed everything in the context of their selling price. Most of the stuff I got sold for cheap, and were surprisingly good for that price. The higher the price of the product, the more critical I was. I'm not going to review a $20 fitness band with the same critical eye as a $300 band, because in general, you do get what you pay for.
The required disclosure of "I received this product in exchange for a fair and honest review" is actually useful, because it's a signal to review readers that the review is incentivized. What companies are doing now is getting reviewers to buy the products to get "Verified Purchaser" status and paying them back via PayPal. That has made it MUCH worse than before, because people assume that a Verified Purchase review is safe.
Having said all of that, Amazon does have its fair share of shady reviewers. Most of the reviewers who were higher ranked than me were still getting free review products after the rule changes. The main difference was that they were no longer disclosing that fact. I could tell who they were because of the products they were reviewing often mapped to offers I was getting from companies wanting me to do the Paypal workaround.
The weirdest thing that happened after the rule change and my incentivized reviews were wiped was that my reviewer ranking went up significantly.
Yes I didn't mean that the disclosure was the problem. It's the incentivised reviews that are the problem because you really can't give an honest opinion even if you want to. You didn't pay for the item like a normal reviewer and you have an implicit incentive to give a good review so you aren't reviewing from the same point of view as the reviews people actually want.
It's the same reason many companies have policies that employees can't accept gifts. In theory they could have a rule "you can accept gives but don't let it affect your decisions", but people aren't robots. You can't turn that off.
It's the same reason many companies have policies that employees can't accept gifts. In theory they could have a rule "you can accept gives but don't let it affect your decisions", but people aren't robots. You can't turn that off.
I have to ask: Why? You just described amazon's Vine Voice program, where the score of the review is decoupled completely from whether the reviewer gets more free stuff - there's no incentive to post bogus reviews.
Further, having been on the receiving end of a couple of these solicitations myself, they usually took the form of "Hey, we noticed you bought $thing. We'll send you another $thing (or something similar) if you write us a review, good or bad"
Neither of these situations seems sketchy to me, inasmuch as I can't see how someone getting a product for review purposes is likely to taint their review.
Further, having been on the receiving end of a couple of these solicitations myself, they usually took the form of "Hey, we noticed you bought $thing. We'll send you another $thing (or something similar) if you write us a review, good or bad"
Neither of these situations seems sketchy to me, inasmuch as I can't see how someone getting a product for review purposes is likely to taint their review.
>> (using 100% OFF coupons so they appear as verified purchases)
Don't know about ES, but on CA, at some point in mid 2016, the 100% off coupon code purchases stopped appearing as verified purchases.
Instead of being dismissive about reviews with photos and lots of text, the warning signs you should look for are hyperbolic words. One sentence reviews regardless of whether they're incentivized or not tend to be useless and lacking in any real info, imo.
Not all incentivized reviewers are dishonest [full disclosure, I used to write incentivized reviews. I made an effort to be fair and honest, but when I looked at other reviews of the products I reviewed, I can definitely say there are a lot of lazy reviewers who would just post glowing reviews].
The things you should look out for are excessive use of superlatives (or in the rarer case of paid negative reviews, excessive use of highly negative terms) in the reviews. When I look at reviews for products (I buy a lot of stuff from Amazon), I generally take the figure skating approach of throwing out the highest and lowest scores and looking at the reviews in between.
Don't know about ES, but on CA, at some point in mid 2016, the 100% off coupon code purchases stopped appearing as verified purchases.
Instead of being dismissive about reviews with photos and lots of text, the warning signs you should look for are hyperbolic words. One sentence reviews regardless of whether they're incentivized or not tend to be useless and lacking in any real info, imo.
Not all incentivized reviewers are dishonest [full disclosure, I used to write incentivized reviews. I made an effort to be fair and honest, but when I looked at other reviews of the products I reviewed, I can definitely say there are a lot of lazy reviewers who would just post glowing reviews].
The things you should look out for are excessive use of superlatives (or in the rarer case of paid negative reviews, excessive use of highly negative terms) in the reviews. When I look at reviews for products (I buy a lot of stuff from Amazon), I generally take the figure skating approach of throwing out the highest and lowest scores and looking at the reviews in between.
> The moment you find a review with several pictures and paragraph-separated long texts you know it's a paid review with zero value.
Wait, I could be getting paid to be my normal long-winded self? Because that sounds like most, if not all, of my reviews that I've posted online.
Wait, I could be getting paid to be my normal long-winded self? Because that sounds like most, if not all, of my reviews that I've posted online.
How can you say all reviews that have pictures and multiple paragraphs offer zero value? I have reviewed 100+ Amazon products and go in-depth whenever I can, and always provide value by providing hands on experience of using the products where I think it will help other people looking to buy that product.
I'm definitely not a paid reviewer and I've done one or two of those multi paragraph reviews with pictures because either the product was comically bad or amazingly good. I'm a software engineer, definitely not a paid reviewer.
The described policy change of requiring a customer to have spent at least $50 to leave a verified review happened in 2016... [0]
[0] https://sellercentral.amazon.com/forums/message.jspa?message...
[0] https://sellercentral.amazon.com/forums/message.jspa?message...
My latest foray into Amazon review was this. Company contacts me asking to do review. They have me purchase the product with my own money. Then they send me the amount via paypal. So I don't think this policy will stop much assuming they all shift to that model.
I've stopped leaving Amazon reviews. Recently I was bored and went through a few bits of network equipment and PC hardware I purchased and reviewed a few of them. 3/6 of the reviews were rejected for being against community guidelines with no reason provided. Even after reading the guidelines it's not clear why they were rejected. I put in effort to describe why something got its rating from me. For example, I discussed the strengths/weaknesses the network equipment. From now on I might leave a star rating, but I'm not wasting time to get a review accepted. I'll leave that to the shills.
Same thing happened to me with Wikipedia. I made a time-consuming, cited edit to an article and it was immediately backed out. Now I completely ignore factual errors in Wikipedia, including one that I just looked up and found is still there at least 5 years later.
Want to link to that specific factual error? Someone here could probably fix it.
Google crippled their rewards for reviews (1TB for Local Guides dropped to 100GB now nothing) as they gained a critical mass of participants.
There has to be a way for Amazon to Mechanical Turk reviews of reviews -- however many layers deep required!
There has to be a way for Amazon to Mechanical Turk reviews of reviews -- however many layers deep required!
Great idea. At least they get some cash with a real name attached to the review. I hope they don't allow those pre-paid Visa cards.
I don't know that the banks "tell" vendors "This purchase was made with a pre-paid credit/bank card" - I've not seen a flag that shows that before.
Stripe give you a `funding` property on a card source [0], which at least in the UK distinguishes between debit, credit and prepaid cards somewhat reliably.
0: https://stripe.com/docs/api/python#card_object-funding
I assume this is not exclusive to Stripe.
0: https://stripe.com/docs/api/python#card_object-funding
I assume this is not exclusive to Stripe.
You can find lists of the BIN numbers for prepaid cards. Also, in the US, most of them fail AVS checks with a 'U' code.
As a former Redbox employee told me: this is a premium service from card issuers.
tldr; Amazon now requires fake accounts to pay them first.
And Amazon ES is full of those.