Why a ‘paperless world’ still hasn’t happened(theguardian.com)
theguardian.com
Why a ‘paperless world’ still hasn’t happened
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/29/american-reams-why-the-paperless-world-hasnt-happened
159 comments
Great post, many good examples, but the elephant in the room is "Yes yes, I know people still do some of the above things." and the question is how much will remain being done.
The babyboomers are on their way out. They're the people born right after WWII and they're in their 50/60/70s. They were born in a world where TV at home was a novelty. They witnessed the smartphone revolution in their late adulthood.
When people who grow up in our current society, with the changes as you put, become adult without the old reference then we will see how important something like pen and pencil remain. And how usable will it be? For example, when I had to scribble down notes the other day, my handwriting was even more abysmal than it used to be because of a lack of practice.
The movie Er Ist Wieder Da (which I saw recently on Netflix) where Hitler returns in Germany in the 21st century and gets confronted with a changed Germany also articulates these changes.
The babyboomers are on their way out. They're the people born right after WWII and they're in their 50/60/70s. They were born in a world where TV at home was a novelty. They witnessed the smartphone revolution in their late adulthood.
When people who grow up in our current society, with the changes as you put, become adult without the old reference then we will see how important something like pen and pencil remain. And how usable will it be? For example, when I had to scribble down notes the other day, my handwriting was even more abysmal than it used to be because of a lack of practice.
The movie Er Ist Wieder Da (which I saw recently on Netflix) where Hitler returns in Germany in the 21st century and gets confronted with a changed Germany also articulates these changes.
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> paper is on life-support, and is going to be DOA in another decade or two.
I'm not sure what the indicators of this would be, for or against, but extrapolating the current trend to zero seems premature.
I can see paper use continuing it's rapid decline, but I genuinely believe it will plateau at a relatively high level. I think paper will always have it's place, in some fashion.
I'm not sure what the indicators of this would be, for or against, but extrapolating the current trend to zero seems premature.
I can see paper use continuing it's rapid decline, but I genuinely believe it will plateau at a relatively high level. I think paper will always have it's place, in some fashion.
Why do you believe this?
I can't imagine paper being used for things like documents or communication 100 years from now at all. I could imagine it still being used for arts but if there aren't other widespread uses for it then it will probably be rare enough to be pretty expensive for artistic usage.
I'm also not convinced all that many people will even want to use it for artistic purposes when, by then, you'll have things Google's Tilt Brush but with 100 years of advances on top of it.
I can't imagine paper being used for things like documents or communication 100 years from now at all. I could imagine it still being used for arts but if there aren't other widespread uses for it then it will probably be rare enough to be pretty expensive for artistic usage.
I'm also not convinced all that many people will even want to use it for artistic purposes when, by then, you'll have things Google's Tilt Brush but with 100 years of advances on top of it.
Paper is an incredibly versatile tool:
1. You can cut, tear, fold, roll, crumple, burn, sew, staple, glue, laminate, etc. it, including sticking found objects to it, wrapping things with it, making it into 3-dimensional structures, ...
2. It comes in a wide variety of colors, textures, thicknesses, and sizes – if you want you can cover your whole wall with one piece of paper. Some paper is translucent and can be used for tracing.
3. You can draw/write/paint over it with a wide variety of substances with a wide variety of appearances. You can fit visible information more densely on paper than pretty much any other available medium.
4. There are many nice tools for interacting with paper, such as rulers, compasses, french curves, pantographs, planimeters, ... You never run into a case where two drawing tools can’t be used together because they run different operating systems.
5. You can easily make physical copies of electronic documents and images onto paper, easily manipulate paper documents, easily copy paper documents from one piece of paper to another, and easily put paper documents back into digital form.
6. It’s incredibly cheap.
7. The right kinds of paper stored properly last a really really long time (centuries if not millennia).
8. It is light and portable, can be stuck up pretty much anywhere.
9. It requires no batteries, no legacy systems, no software updates, no expensive equipment, no special training, ....
10. It is its own concrete physical record, which can be effectively checked for tampering and made difficult to forge at scale. (Hence use for money, ballots, contracts, titles, ...)
1. You can cut, tear, fold, roll, crumple, burn, sew, staple, glue, laminate, etc. it, including sticking found objects to it, wrapping things with it, making it into 3-dimensional structures, ...
2. It comes in a wide variety of colors, textures, thicknesses, and sizes – if you want you can cover your whole wall with one piece of paper. Some paper is translucent and can be used for tracing.
3. You can draw/write/paint over it with a wide variety of substances with a wide variety of appearances. You can fit visible information more densely on paper than pretty much any other available medium.
4. There are many nice tools for interacting with paper, such as rulers, compasses, french curves, pantographs, planimeters, ... You never run into a case where two drawing tools can’t be used together because they run different operating systems.
5. You can easily make physical copies of electronic documents and images onto paper, easily manipulate paper documents, easily copy paper documents from one piece of paper to another, and easily put paper documents back into digital form.
6. It’s incredibly cheap.
7. The right kinds of paper stored properly last a really really long time (centuries if not millennia).
8. It is light and portable, can be stuck up pretty much anywhere.
9. It requires no batteries, no legacy systems, no software updates, no expensive equipment, no special training, ....
10. It is its own concrete physical record, which can be effectively checked for tampering and made difficult to forge at scale. (Hence use for money, ballots, contracts, titles, ...)
I would add:
11. Your whole organization won't likely ever be brought on its knees by a virus or ransomware attached to a piece of paper or fax.
12. Even if your device batteries are low, or you are in a blackout, the piece of paper can still be read [1]
[1] This is specific to plane tickets/boarding passes, I have been mocked for printing them by the same people that had it on their smartphone (and I already saw it happen twice that the battery/device died at the time of boarding/passing checks)
11. Your whole organization won't likely ever be brought on its knees by a virus or ransomware attached to a piece of paper or fax.
12. Even if your device batteries are low, or you are in a blackout, the piece of paper can still be read [1]
[1] This is specific to plane tickets/boarding passes, I have been mocked for printing them by the same people that had it on their smartphone (and I already saw it happen twice that the battery/device died at the time of boarding/passing checks)
I wonder if the flu virus could get carried on a piece of paper.
11: if your company doesnt have cold storage backups at that point, its just begging to get their day ruined.
12. this doesn't get solved with paper copies because the workers still won't know what needs to be done because at least half of the documents will be digital. They will at most be able to organize their paper copies, which is something which wouldn't be necessary if they'd gone digital-only.
your plane ticket/boarding pass mention is also flawed. You will eventually get into trouble if you have a single point of failure. It doesn't matter if its a paper or a phone on which the data is stored. A paper can get damaged or lost just as well as a phone's battery can die at an inopportune time. Thankfully, you're not limited to a single copy nowadays. Its easy to a. print the ticket for security and b. use the app for check-in
12. this doesn't get solved with paper copies because the workers still won't know what needs to be done because at least half of the documents will be digital. They will at most be able to organize their paper copies, which is something which wouldn't be necessary if they'd gone digital-only.
your plane ticket/boarding pass mention is also flawed. You will eventually get into trouble if you have a single point of failure. It doesn't matter if its a paper or a phone on which the data is stored. A paper can get damaged or lost just as well as a phone's battery can die at an inopportune time. Thankfully, you're not limited to a single copy nowadays. Its easy to a. print the ticket for security and b. use the app for check-in
I never said that the company/organization can't stand up again (after restore, i.e. after several hours of frantic works by the IT guys), only that it can be brought on its knees.
And as well, the same people who lose the paper ticket (or have it stolen) may well have lost their smartphone (or I would say with some more probabilities, have it stolen).
But I appreciate the single point of failure note.
And as well, the same people who lose the paper ticket (or have it stolen) may well have lost their smartphone (or I would say with some more probabilities, have it stolen).
But I appreciate the single point of failure note.
Agreed. I’ve tried many, many alternatives and paper and pen are still the most convenient and intuitive form for taking notes, sketching, constructing etc. I have a system where these notes get digitalised at some point of time though.
And you will most likely be able to do all of that and more with apps like google tilt brush. I'm guessing you don't know what it actually is, so i'll leave a link here
https://www.tiltbrush.com/
Its amazing what humans were/are able to do with paper though. It just won't be as relevant as technology advances.
https://www.tiltbrush.com/
Its amazing what humans were/are able to do with paper though. It just won't be as relevant as technology advances.
> rulers, compasses, french curves, pantographs, planimeters
I had never heard of a planimeter[1], but what a fascinating device it is! I'm surprised that such a thing is possible: that you can calculate the area of an arbitrarily complex shape just by tracing the perimeter with a simple mechanical device. Unfortunately, how it works is not at all intuitive but seems to require a fair amount of math to understand.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planimeter
I had never heard of a planimeter[1], but what a fascinating device it is! I'm surprised that such a thing is possible: that you can calculate the area of an arbitrarily complex shape just by tracing the perimeter with a simple mechanical device. Unfortunately, how it works is not at all intuitive but seems to require a fair amount of math to understand.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planimeter
If you have ever studied vector calculus, the idea is a straightforward application of Green's theorem. The discrete version is the 'shoelace formula'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green%27s_theorem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoelace_formula
This kind of thing is one of the more important ideas from 19th century math/physics, and is studied by most STEM undergraduates in their first or second year.
This kind of thing is one of the more important ideas from 19th century math/physics, and is studied by most STEM undergraduates in their first or second year.
>I had never heard of a planimeter[1], but what a fascinating device it is!
Not only, it was (is) extremely accurate if used properly.
I am old enough (unfortunately) to have used planimeters professionally in the '80's (just before drawing started becoming digital), at the time they were largely used because they were much faster than calculating exactly (and already hand calculators with trigonometric functions existed) some data in roads cross-sections.
So, for temporary accounting, planimeter based measures of areas were accepted (usually reduced by 5% or 10%).
Basically you had a (hand drawn) inked drawing of each cross section of the road (usually one every 20 m or so) where you would draw a pencil line at the level that was reached in the works, and then use the planimeter to get the area (and consequently volume) of the earthworks done at the date.
When the level was final, the amount would be calculated analitically, still manually, usually, but I managed somehow to write for the HP97[1][2] (constrained by 256 steps!) a small program capable of automatically calculating that, of course typing the measures manually.
Large stretches of the road earthworks had already been calculated by the planimeter and when re-calculated, the differences were very small, within 1% or 2%.
[1] http://www.hpmuseum.org/hp6797.htm [2] http://www.hpmuseum.org/97.jpg
Not only, it was (is) extremely accurate if used properly.
I am old enough (unfortunately) to have used planimeters professionally in the '80's (just before drawing started becoming digital), at the time they were largely used because they were much faster than calculating exactly (and already hand calculators with trigonometric functions existed) some data in roads cross-sections.
So, for temporary accounting, planimeter based measures of areas were accepted (usually reduced by 5% or 10%).
Basically you had a (hand drawn) inked drawing of each cross section of the road (usually one every 20 m or so) where you would draw a pencil line at the level that was reached in the works, and then use the planimeter to get the area (and consequently volume) of the earthworks done at the date.
When the level was final, the amount would be calculated analitically, still manually, usually, but I managed somehow to write for the HP97[1][2] (constrained by 256 steps!) a small program capable of automatically calculating that, of course typing the measures manually.
Large stretches of the road earthworks had already been calculated by the planimeter and when re-calculated, the differences were very small, within 1% or 2%.
[1] http://www.hpmuseum.org/hp6797.htm [2] http://www.hpmuseum.org/97.jpg
I know a researcher (Olivier Bournez) who uses the planimeter as an introduction to analog computing. His claim is that planimeters are single-purpose analog computers, much like calculators are single-purpose digital computers.
He then logically generalizes planimeters into General purpose analog computers, which I find quite fascinating.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_purpose_analog_compute...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_purpose_analog_compute...
Depends what you mean by paper.
Toilet paper, cardboard boxes, sales packaging, food packaging, etc.
Are they paper?
Just looking up paper usage worldwide, there's been no decline over the last 10 years[1], it's been flat. before that, though I'm having trouble pinning down. There's also this[2] which claims there is no significant decline in the type of paper you're talking about. I find that hard to believe though given what I remember about offices in the 2000s.
[1]https://www.statista.com/statistics/270317/production-volume...
[2]http://www.thepaperlessproject.com/facts-about-paper-the-imp...
Toilet paper, cardboard boxes, sales packaging, food packaging, etc.
Are they paper?
Just looking up paper usage worldwide, there's been no decline over the last 10 years[1], it's been flat. before that, though I'm having trouble pinning down. There's also this[2] which claims there is no significant decline in the type of paper you're talking about. I find that hard to believe though given what I remember about offices in the 2000s.
[1]https://www.statista.com/statistics/270317/production-volume...
[2]http://www.thepaperlessproject.com/facts-about-paper-the-imp...
Private contracts with huge risk fallout should there be either unauthorized viewing, copying, or modification, are highly useful to keep on paper. All parties get one or more copies, and they can be put into physical safe deposit boxes. This helps prevent or at least better assign liability to catastrophic events like deed fraud. If county governments with poor IT security should have an undetected breach, it could be a real mess without a paper trail.
Paper was useful a thousand years ago, people find paper useful today, and it's likely people will find it useful a thousand years hence. The digital device you're using, the operating system it's running, and any apps running on it will likely be considered obsolete garbage within a year.
Within a year? Seriously?
Fair enough, maybe that was a bit hyperbolic. An electronic device still wouldn't be useful as long as paper, at least not for the average person. There's no planned obsolescence or EOL with paper.
So what? I have an MP3 file on my laptop that I first downloaded in 1999. Who cares if the physical support that encodes it is long gone? It's not like we're going to give up on using computers even if we do keep using paper, so there's no savings there, only extra waste.
Most of the books I own will crumble to dust in 100 years, I understand. That said, so will most data formats.
I once did a thought experiment on what it would take to replace the paper scoring sheets for horse competition. It was fairly daunting. It needs to be simple enough for a lay person to use well. Recording, corrections, and commenting all needed to seamless. Since there are multiple riders on course, the user needs to be able to react quickly and potentially out of order. Paper is really hard to beat in that case. Corrections are just using the pencil eraser or crossing out. Field selection is just where you have the pen at that moment. Communication sucks in that the sheets are picked up by a runner. But even on that count going digital adds it's own complications. I assume that someone will do it eventually but for such a seemingly simple case the constraints are deceptively tight.
Why is digital paper not an option here? If we're talking about a timeline of 100 years, I'm almost certain we'll have something thin, reusable, with low power that you can write on with a stylus.
After all, we're almost there today: we're just missing the thin part.[0][1][2]
[0]: http://myboogieboard.com/
[1]: http://remarkable.com
[2]: http://noteslate.com/
After all, we're almost there today: we're just missing the thin part.[0][1][2]
[0]: http://myboogieboard.com/
[1]: http://remarkable.com
[2]: http://noteslate.com/
The low technical nature of paper is a huge factor.
The new version will just be nano bots holding hands.
Because virtually all previous forms of media are still in (limited) use, so paper is unlikely to be an exception.
Because not everybody will be plugged into a 100% electronic society and will need paper for documentation and exchange of goods. At the very least we're still going to need toilet paper and cardboard boxes.
Then at least paper-less, if not paperless.
Yet I still receive piles of garbage in the mail
The reason why papyer is here and here to stay - is the frailty that software has shown again and again.
Paper survies the absence of humans, software and devices dont. Operating systems decay, reading software and devices wither away, the revenue stream drys up and soon a whole eco-system decays from a oasis of data back to the dust it came.
We know how frail and vurnerable the whole affair is, deep down. That is why we use ink to sign important contracts, that is why we store copys at seperat places. We would burn them in clay so they outloast us, if we still had a comfortable way to do so.
There is a market for durable softare there, for durable hardware, for the guarantee to withstand times tests. But in the end, it would be a lot- like paper made from sand.
Paper survies the absence of humans, software and devices dont. Operating systems decay, reading software and devices wither away, the revenue stream drys up and soon a whole eco-system decays from a oasis of data back to the dust it came.
We know how frail and vurnerable the whole affair is, deep down. That is why we use ink to sign important contracts, that is why we store copys at seperat places. We would burn them in clay so they outloast us, if we still had a comfortable way to do so.
There is a market for durable softare there, for durable hardware, for the guarantee to withstand times tests. But in the end, it would be a lot- like paper made from sand.
Alternatively you could step into a time machine, i.e. a flight to Japan (where pretty much your whole list is still standard, just replace paper mail with fax in some cases).
We don't play board games anymore, we play video games.
Except... this isn't true. Right now is considered the golden age of board games. Just this past year somewhere between 3000 and 4000 new board games were released. Every one of these use paper in abundance.
Except... this isn't true. Right now is considered the golden age of board games. Just this past year somewhere between 3000 and 4000 new board games were released. Every one of these use paper in abundance.
Anecdata, but my circle of friends spend about 20x as much time playing board and card (we're just getting into Bridge and... we may not need any other card games now?) games together as we do board games. Probably more like 40-50x if you count pen & paper RPGs. Our digital gaming is all solo stuff. If we play video games together it's almost always local coop, and probably "classic"—something on Gamecube (I assume Double Dash is considered "classic" by now), the Perfect Dark HD update on the XBox360, that kind of thing.
We're technically Millennials (though early ones). I went to my first convention this year (with one other person from same circle of friends) and it was for board games. It was social, it was fun, every single person I met there was awesome. I'll probably go to the same one next year. I'd never go to a video game con, however much I like video games.
We're technically Millennials (though early ones). I went to my first convention this year (with one other person from same circle of friends) and it was for board games. It was social, it was fun, every single person I met there was awesome. I'll probably go to the same one next year. I'd never go to a video game con, however much I like video games.
Try settling an estate - 7 out of 9 on your list.
If one's life is at all realistic, the statement that paper will be gone is laughable.
- Sent mail for something requiring physical proof and evidence of delivery like court related correspondence.
- Sent fax to financial institution demanding medallion signature; they have an app but didn't work.
- Not for a job but for applying for credit, had to send in identifying information via mail.
- Any tax situation that is slightly complicated involves forms not available for eFile, guess what, paper forms.
- Still get tax forms in mail, it's a paper trail that won't disappear in 1, 2, 7, or 10 years and then have to pay $25 to retrieve; plus long-term safe, secure storage of readable data is difficult.
- Not sure what the difference is here; photocopiers are scanners.
- Still use checks for rent because landlords don't care to be raped by processor fees.
- Hotel sends paper WSJ and USA Today every day.
- Physical books, especially textbooks, are everywhere since eReaders can't render math worth sh*t; nobody reads anything serious, e.g. academic literature on eReaders, so it's print and mark up.
Paper is far from dead since there is no replacement for some of these things or the replacement is worse or expensive.
- Sent mail for something requiring physical proof and evidence of delivery like court related correspondence.
- Sent fax to financial institution demanding medallion signature; they have an app but didn't work.
- Not for a job but for applying for credit, had to send in identifying information via mail.
- Any tax situation that is slightly complicated involves forms not available for eFile, guess what, paper forms.
- Still get tax forms in mail, it's a paper trail that won't disappear in 1, 2, 7, or 10 years and then have to pay $25 to retrieve; plus long-term safe, secure storage of readable data is difficult.
- Not sure what the difference is here; photocopiers are scanners.
- Still use checks for rent because landlords don't care to be raped by processor fees.
- Hotel sends paper WSJ and USA Today every day.
- Physical books, especially textbooks, are everywhere since eReaders can't render math worth sh*t; nobody reads anything serious, e.g. academic literature on eReaders, so it's print and mark up.
Paper is far from dead since there is no replacement for some of these things or the replacement is worse or expensive.
For complex ebooks tablets are good to use. Similar for comics, which might be the main reason many students have them in the first place.
Ebooks are great on tablets (especially the 7" ones). I've never enjoyed reading comics on even a larger tablet. I've got a bunch of electronic graphic novels that I've been putting off reading, because I'm not looking forward to dealing with the tablet.
I'm probably younger than you are - I don't really remember the 80s nor much of anything in the 90s - and I have probably done half of the things on your list on paper within the last year. Some of those are by choice and some are by necessity. This doesn't invalidate your point but I think that you will be surprised in a decade or two just how much stuff is actually still done on paper.
Electronic statements are particularly nasty because the bank might make records older than 24 or 36 months inaccessible and then charge you to retrieve them unless you thought ahead to download your statement PDF each month. Not that that has stopped me from going paperless for day-to-day things but I am rather fond of collecting and filing tax forms on paper.
Electronic statements are particularly nasty because the bank might make records older than 24 or 36 months inaccessible and then charge you to retrieve them unless you thought ahead to download your statement PDF each month. Not that that has stopped me from going paperless for day-to-day things but I am rather fond of collecting and filing tax forms on paper.
We email them resumes and they got the attachment printed so that their managers could draw circles and lines on it, with a pen.
Sure, paper is still used for temporary stuff, like taking notes. However, for long-term use I prefer electronic storage - way easier to search. (Almost all my Visual Studio projects, for example, have a "notes.txt" file containing TODOs or general observations.)
Why would anyone e-file their taxes? It's at least $25 for the most basic e-filing software, or 49 cents to drop in the mail.
There are more countries than America.
I do it each year for free.
I do it each year for free.
Yup. There you do it in your browser, which is free.
[deleted]
> It's at least $25 for the most basic e-filing software
False. There are free options.
Having a piece of software do that calculations for me, and even enter most of my information, based on my already-electronic W-2, is worth a good bit of money to me anyhow. Even with software guiding me, I've got to have a couple of hours free to file my taxes.
False. There are free options.
Having a piece of software do that calculations for me, and even enter most of my information, based on my already-electronic W-2, is worth a good bit of money to me anyhow. Even with software guiding me, I've got to have a couple of hours free to file my taxes.
Assuming you are referring to filing taxes in the US, and you live in the US, that may be true. But there are an estimated 9 million US citizens living abroad many of whom probably find it a lot safer and more convenient to file electronically even though it might cost more.
Anyone in the US who makes under $64k can e-file for free[0]
https://www.irs.gov/filing/free-file-do-your-federal-taxes-f...
https://www.irs.gov/filing/free-file-do-your-federal-taxes-f...
I love how lots of people here assume America is the only land in the world. Most European countries have had online taxing for ages now at a cost of 0.
I have been e-filing state and federal free for years.
>We don't send documents via fax or courier, we send them digitally.
We still send messages via fax, because a document you sign and send by email isn't a legally signed document, wheras a fax is. I had to print out a PDF, sign it, and and fax it a week ago for this reason.
We still send messages via fax, because a document you sign and send by email isn't a legally signed document, wheras a fax is. I had to print out a PDF, sign it, and and fax it a week ago for this reason.
Is that true? In NZ a digital signature is a legal signature. You dont have to print and scan it, just type your name. Legit signed.
For acknowledgement of disclosure this is done or sometimes for vouching for truthfulness. These seem like relieving another party of liability. But for giving up rights and such, I haven't seen that (typing a name) being sufficient.
There is technology to do true cryptographic digital signatures (not these fake "digital" signatures), but society doesn't seem particularly interested in that at the moment.
There is technology to do true cryptographic digital signatures (not these fake "digital" signatures), but society doesn't seem particularly interested in that at the moment.
There seemed to be a movement in that direction a few years back, but I haven't seen anything in awhile.
In Estonia, an email is a legally signed document. We also have Digital Signatures via our Electronic IDs. You must live in a third world country, because I haven't even seen a fax machine in the past 15 years.
Excellent points. It just takes time.
Just like with the "job-stealing automation", despite the hysteria in the press. These things take decades.
Just like with the "job-stealing automation", despite the hysteria in the press. These things take decades.
[deleted]
A decade or two? Did you think that through? I really, really doubt that is going to happen. Just take books for example: there's a couple of millions of books published & printed yearly. Replacing that and the market and the users within 20-something years? That would require a revolution of some kind. For which there is no significant drive whatsoever.
We don't read physical books, we read e-books.
I do, and really e-ink displays were truly a revelation to me, but it's not a book. Ok I'm one of those people who crave the feeling of well-designed materials/tools/things/whatever and some books fullfill that perfectly in a way no e-book-reader will ever do: a properly bound hardcover weighing over a kg and packed with information on a subject I care about? Gimme! But even for more 'normal' people: I'm wondering how many of those are saying 'I've got an e-book now, haven't read any paper books since'? I know none, but that's just anecdotal of course, they all say 'e-book is nice, but ...'. Not saying that cannot change. But a couple of decades? I'll be extremely surprised. And in any case, I'll still have and use many of the physical books I have now.
We don't read physical books, we read e-books.
I do, and really e-ink displays were truly a revelation to me, but it's not a book. Ok I'm one of those people who crave the feeling of well-designed materials/tools/things/whatever and some books fullfill that perfectly in a way no e-book-reader will ever do: a properly bound hardcover weighing over a kg and packed with information on a subject I care about? Gimme! But even for more 'normal' people: I'm wondering how many of those are saying 'I've got an e-book now, haven't read any paper books since'? I know none, but that's just anecdotal of course, they all say 'e-book is nice, but ...'. Not saying that cannot change. But a couple of decades? I'll be extremely surprised. And in any case, I'll still have and use many of the physical books I have now.
My first ebook reader was the Franklin eBookMan [1]. Since I bought that one, back in 200X (don't remember when but it was after 9/11), I stopped reading paper books. I have a few (technical) books I was forced to read on paper, because reading them on a Kindle is a disaster, but I solved that once I got my 10-inch tablet.
My Kindle has 1,029 books on it at the moment... though at least 50% of those are fanfiction, which I prefer to original books.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_eBookMan
My Kindle has 1,029 books on it at the moment... though at least 50% of those are fanfiction, which I prefer to original books.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_eBookMan
Ha I knew there wouldbe people giving up on paper books :] However where reading e-ink is almost like paper I really can't get used to lots of reading on a backlit screen (assuming your tablet is like that). Anyway, TIL there's a thing called fanfiction. Any recommendations? I read practically all genres but since English isn't my mother language preferrably something without too much uncommon vocabulary.
Recommendations... woohoo. Depends on what fiction you like (I prefer Sci-Fi and Fantasy). I'll give you a couple I prefer.
For Buffy fans, [1] has a huge number of stories, both in-universe and crossovers with other worlds. [1a] to [1e] are a few of my favorite authors. Hotpoint's crossover between X-COM and SG-1 is absolutely amazing.
For other worlds, [2] to [5] are the most well-known sites for fanfiction. One of my favorite stories is [6].
===
What I normally do is I download the stories in the .mobi format - tth and ao3 have that feature in the site, and for the others you can use the FanFicFare plugin for Calibre - and then upload them to my Kindle. This allows me to read in bed, which is bad for my sleep but I like it :)
===
By the way, English isn't my maternal language either - reading a lot of stuff on the internet is pretty much how I learned it.
[1] https://www.tthfanfic.org
[1a] https://www.tthfanfic.org/Author-3980/Speakertocustomers.htm
[1b] https://www.tthfanfic.org/Author-7859/becuzitswrong.htm
[1c] https://www.tthfanfic.org/Author-15310/Cordyfan.htm
[1d] https://www.tthfanfic.org/Author-22082/DianeCastle.htm
[1e] https://www.tthfanfic.org/Author-7284/Hotpoint.htm
[2] https://www.fanfiction.net
[3] https://forums.spacebattles.com/
[4] https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com
[5] http://archiveofourown.org/
[6] https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/taylor-varga-w...
For Buffy fans, [1] has a huge number of stories, both in-universe and crossovers with other worlds. [1a] to [1e] are a few of my favorite authors. Hotpoint's crossover between X-COM and SG-1 is absolutely amazing.
For other worlds, [2] to [5] are the most well-known sites for fanfiction. One of my favorite stories is [6].
===
What I normally do is I download the stories in the .mobi format - tth and ao3 have that feature in the site, and for the others you can use the FanFicFare plugin for Calibre - and then upload them to my Kindle. This allows me to read in bed, which is bad for my sleep but I like it :)
===
By the way, English isn't my maternal language either - reading a lot of stuff on the internet is pretty much how I learned it.
[1] https://www.tthfanfic.org
[1a] https://www.tthfanfic.org/Author-3980/Speakertocustomers.htm
[1b] https://www.tthfanfic.org/Author-7859/becuzitswrong.htm
[1c] https://www.tthfanfic.org/Author-15310/Cordyfan.htm
[1d] https://www.tthfanfic.org/Author-22082/DianeCastle.htm
[1e] https://www.tthfanfic.org/Author-7284/Hotpoint.htm
[2] https://www.fanfiction.net
[3] https://forums.spacebattles.com/
[4] https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com
[5] http://archiveofourown.org/
[6] https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/taylor-varga-w...
It's quite simple. Paper is a near-perfect technology. What replaces it has to be similarly perfect. When people look at what replaces paper, they think screens. Screens are pretty-near perfect too. But screens are not what replace paper. Files are. Screens merely display information, files store it.
And file storage and manipulation is still in the Stone Age. It's about as far from perfect as any technology can be. To kill paper you have to make it perfectly easy for people to design applications without it. Because it's already perfectly easy to design applications and systems that use paper.
We have to fix software development before we can truly kill paper.
And file storage and manipulation is still in the Stone Age. It's about as far from perfect as any technology can be. To kill paper you have to make it perfectly easy for people to design applications without it. Because it's already perfectly easy to design applications and systems that use paper.
We have to fix software development before we can truly kill paper.
Office IT is almost uniformly terrible. I see a lot of companies trying to achieve a paperless office, but very few spending the money it takes to make it a reality.
Paperless workers need two large high-res monitors, not one crappy 21" 1080p monitor or a laptop with a 1366x768 panel. They need at least one tablet with a decent pen interface. They need a good document management system. They need the training and support to make use of it all.
Paperless workers need two large high-res monitors, not one crappy 21" 1080p monitor or a laptop with a 1366x768 panel. They need at least one tablet with a decent pen interface. They need a good document management system. They need the training and support to make use of it all.
And, to add to what you're saying, paper is infinitely easier for people to interact with. It's a physical, tangible object which they can see, touch/feel, and manipulate just like every other object in the world. The paper we use today is the product of hundreds of years of iterative design - conscious, and otherwise. Plus, of course, paper never runs out of batteries.
I do though believe we eventually will create computers which are as natural for us to use as paper is today.
I do though believe we eventually will create computers which are as natural for us to use as paper is today.
While paper used to be the near-perfect technology for storing and distributing non-ephemeral information nowadays this has been turned on its head to the extent that using paper for these purposes has become downright detrimental:
Information stored on paper in some filing cabinet in some office for all practical purposes simply doesn't exist. It can't be easily searched, retrieved or accessed by someone who's not in the same room and doesn't exactly know what he's looking for. In other words: That information is lost.
Old habits unfortunately die hard, which is why people still seem to be thinking that storing non-ephemeral information or knowledge on paper is a good idea.
Information stored on paper in some filing cabinet in some office for all practical purposes simply doesn't exist. It can't be easily searched, retrieved or accessed by someone who's not in the same room and doesn't exactly know what he's looking for. In other words: That information is lost.
Old habits unfortunately die hard, which is why people still seem to be thinking that storing non-ephemeral information or knowledge on paper is a good idea.
Information locked away on some local user's desktop also doesn't exist. If information isn't stored on a dedicated application-specific storage system staffed with people skilled in it's use and repair, then it's the exact same thing.
We can't just take information and dump it on a block storage device. It needs proper archival. This is the same with paper, only if you lose the key to your file cabinet or the drawers stop sliding so easily, you can still get at the information.
If your RAID backplane dies and you don't know how to fix it, you're in for a bad day.
There is a skillset you can learn to work with paper more efficiently. But most people can muddle through without those skills. Not so with digital.
We can't just take information and dump it on a block storage device. It needs proper archival. This is the same with paper, only if you lose the key to your file cabinet or the drawers stop sliding so easily, you can still get at the information.
If your RAID backplane dies and you don't know how to fix it, you're in for a bad day.
There is a skillset you can learn to work with paper more efficiently. But most people can muddle through without those skills. Not so with digital.
>Information locked away on some local user's desktop also doesn't exist. If information isn't stored on a dedicated application-specific storage system staffed with people skilled in it's use and repair, then it's the exact same thing
Office365, GSuite. Small and medium businesses have options.
Office365, GSuite. Small and medium businesses have options.
Small and medium businesses can keep their documents like this because the expected lifetime of those businesses is less than time until major breaking change on the cloud office suite platform (or its shutting down).
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This is a great point, and one of the reasons I doubt there will be much demand for IPFS.
Ok. What do you actually disagree with.
I disagree with the notion that every comment has to be a counterpoint to previous one.
Agreed
I work in this very field. My company sells enterprise content management (ECM) software that helps organizations go paperless.
In my experience, it's not just about archival, search and retrieval. The system also needs to have robust automation capabilities, and be able to do things like automatically rename the files in a consistent way based on storage location, file content (text, voice, etc.), and identify when people store things in the incorrect location and correct those mistakes or at least flag the files for manual correction.
The other thing to realize is that information doesn't get generated in a vacuum. It's generated via various business processes. So if you can automate those using software, and the automation routines are tied to the content management system such that things are filed in the correct location based on business process data (e.g. which department initiated the process, who approved what, etc.) then you're basically 80% of the way to paperlessness.
In my experience, it's not just about archival, search and retrieval. The system also needs to have robust automation capabilities, and be able to do things like automatically rename the files in a consistent way based on storage location, file content (text, voice, etc.), and identify when people store things in the incorrect location and correct those mistakes or at least flag the files for manual correction.
The other thing to realize is that information doesn't get generated in a vacuum. It's generated via various business processes. So if you can automate those using software, and the automation routines are tied to the content management system such that things are filed in the correct location based on business process data (e.g. which department initiated the process, who approved what, etc.) then you're basically 80% of the way to paperlessness.
I was recently researching some of things archivists have to do, and the general consensus is that their skills are needed even more in the digital age, not less, because it introduces a whole host of new problems: files that fork, forgeries, losing the ability to read old file formats, etc.
There was also a project by MoMA (I can't find the original article), where they had to get a whole team together to create formats that will ensure survival in the future by doing things like including the instructions to view the format in a readable way.
There was also a project by MoMA (I can't find the original article), where they had to get a whole team together to create formats that will ensure survival in the future by doing things like including the instructions to view the format in a readable way.
Reminds me of a quote from the early days of the internet. It went something like "The internet is like a library with every book in the world. But all the books are on the floor."
That’s not true at all. You use one of any number of filing systems.
I worked on a pretty huge paper to electronic record conversion project... millions of pages. We made it much easier to access, although about 25x more expensive, but 95% of searches align with the indexing systems in place for the paper process.
Even in my life, I use a traditional 43 folders system for some things. Very accessible.
I worked on a pretty huge paper to electronic record conversion project... millions of pages. We made it much easier to access, although about 25x more expensive, but 95% of searches align with the indexing systems in place for the paper process.
Even in my life, I use a traditional 43 folders system for some things. Very accessible.
Any system probably is better than no system in this case.
Still, there's the fundamental problem with paper-based system that when you design an indexing system you have to correctly anticipate how people will use the system for the foreseeable future (i.e. until the next reorganization).
It's much easier to find scientific books and papers online than by using IR systems in university libraries designed for exactly that purpose by librarians, whose entire profession is built on organising information. The reason for this isn't that those librarians don't know how to do their job. It's that information stored on paper alone (i.e. without a digital representation) can't be easily searched for.
Still, there's the fundamental problem with paper-based system that when you design an indexing system you have to correctly anticipate how people will use the system for the foreseeable future (i.e. until the next reorganization).
It's much easier to find scientific books and papers online than by using IR systems in university libraries designed for exactly that purpose by librarians, whose entire profession is built on organising information. The reason for this isn't that those librarians don't know how to do their job. It's that information stored on paper alone (i.e. without a digital representation) can't be easily searched for.
> It can't be easily searched, retrieved or accessed by someone who's not in the same room and doesn't exactly know what he's looking for
To a lot of people in a lot of scenarios, that is a feature. Modern cryptography has yet to match the ease of use, comfort and security of a single piece of paper locked away somewhere only you would think to look.
To a lot of people in a lot of scenarios, that is a feature. Modern cryptography has yet to match the ease of use, comfort and security of a single piece of paper locked away somewhere only you would think to look.
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> Information stored on paper in some filing cabinet in some office for all practical purposes simply doesn't exist. It can't be easily searched, retrieved or accessed by someone who's not in the same room and doesn't exactly know what he's looking for. In other words: That information is lost.
You can't find anything if you don't know what you're looking for, be it through a search box or a pile of drawers filled with paper. A search engine is just a sophisticated index. Information, in any form, is only retrievable once a certain hierarchy is imposed upon it (be it scarce or not) and some sort of index is there (be it in your mind---the invoice is in New Folder (3)---or actually written down somewhere, or somehow generated and operated by a search tool). Yes you certainly can't grep paper (you can try though, there's OCR if one wants to go to those lengths, and that certainly can be useful for lots of tasks, even in the personal scale), but you can't grep your text files if you don't have a search term at hand.
You can't find anything if you don't know what you're looking for, be it through a search box or a pile of drawers filled with paper. A search engine is just a sophisticated index. Information, in any form, is only retrievable once a certain hierarchy is imposed upon it (be it scarce or not) and some sort of index is there (be it in your mind---the invoice is in New Folder (3)---or actually written down somewhere, or somehow generated and operated by a search tool). Yes you certainly can't grep paper (you can try though, there's OCR if one wants to go to those lengths, and that certainly can be useful for lots of tasks, even in the personal scale), but you can't grep your text files if you don't have a search term at hand.
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What innovations in file storage and manipulation would characterize a progression to the Bronze Age?
I would say when files become easily storable and accessible. Right now untold amounts of human labor are destroyed whenever the computer systems those humans are using fail. When I think about how most people use computers, I get the distinct feeling like I'm watching an episode of Primitive Technologies.
Systems like Dropbox are a good first step, but the archival of files is still far too complicated. This stuff needs to be easy enough for your 80 year old grandma to master.
I'd say we're probably 20-50 years out. We're eventually going to figure out a basic file format that all applications will use and extend. Then it'll become necessary for all applications to support it. It'll have solved the encoding problem, and it'll have built-in error correction.
Sort of a Unicode for file formats.
Once that's in place, then cloud storage and backup solutions will finally become useful.
Systems like Dropbox are a good first step, but the archival of files is still far too complicated. This stuff needs to be easy enough for your 80 year old grandma to master.
I'd say we're probably 20-50 years out. We're eventually going to figure out a basic file format that all applications will use and extend. Then it'll become necessary for all applications to support it. It'll have solved the encoding problem, and it'll have built-in error correction.
Sort of a Unicode for file formats.
Once that's in place, then cloud storage and backup solutions will finally become useful.
> We're eventually going to figure out a basic file format that all applications will use and extend.
The general trend seems to skip that and is moving towards renting hosted software applications. Google docs is already pervasive in certain corners, and not only can I not tell you what version of Google docs I'm using, but I can't really tell you what its file formats are, or even where it's even actually stored other than "in the cloud".
Assuming that trend continues, what, then, even are file formats?
The general trend seems to skip that and is moving towards renting hosted software applications. Google docs is already pervasive in certain corners, and not only can I not tell you what version of Google docs I'm using, but I can't really tell you what its file formats are, or even where it's even actually stored other than "in the cloud".
Assuming that trend continues, what, then, even are file formats?
The hiding of file formats behind the application isn't new, but that doesn't make them go away. Should the app ever die, necessitating a migration, then the file formats will suddenly become painfully relevant again.
We need a universal file format similar to plaintext but has standards-based extensions for storing data in that all applications can extract to. That way software can finally achieve paper's universality.
It's the first step on the road to making information technology truly worthy of the name. The next would be easy-to-use programming platforms. Like Excel or Visual Basic but not shitty.
We need a universal file format similar to plaintext but has standards-based extensions for storing data in that all applications can extract to. That way software can finally achieve paper's universality.
It's the first step on the road to making information technology truly worthy of the name. The next would be easy-to-use programming platforms. Like Excel or Visual Basic but not shitty.
IMO one of the problems with cloud storage in general is how complicated it is. There are so many moving parts and so many things that could go wrong that there are inevitably many states a file could be in and asking them to troubleshoot these is impossible.
For example, my wife is syncing several GBs of data up to Google Photos as we speak. Periodically, the sync process will complain about something and stop. There is nothing we can do except ask it to exit and we try again. What went wrong? Who knows. We certainly don't. The app UI isn't telling us anything. So we cross our fingers, restart the sync app and hope it works. This isn't the future.
"A file" needs to be have the qualities we need as a paper-replacement as an intrinsic property of itself, not conceptual software design properties that are merely abstractions.
For example, my wife is syncing several GBs of data up to Google Photos as we speak. Periodically, the sync process will complain about something and stop. There is nothing we can do except ask it to exit and we try again. What went wrong? Who knows. We certainly don't. The app UI isn't telling us anything. So we cross our fingers, restart the sync app and hope it works. This isn't the future.
"A file" needs to be have the qualities we need as a paper-replacement as an intrinsic property of itself, not conceptual software design properties that are merely abstractions.
I conjecture that error detection (and recovery) are layers beneath the file format it's self. They belong in the filing system and storage layers within/under that.
Application code should never need to worry about error recovery.
We're kind of close to this for text files, if only Windows and related programs would join the rest of the sane world. Stop adding 'BOM Marks' and just assume everything is UTF-8 (at least for any txt file created after 2000 and all application stdin/out/errs).
However the biggest barrier here is a complete disconnect between interested parties. Adobe wants to make money and keeps 'pdf' locked away. It's also bad because paper size is enforced, instead of having an aspect ratio, and positioning for different elements. Even HTML rendering isn't that simple, and NO designer is working using those tools. Additionally that complexity is FAR above what the average user can handle and WAY above what they want to deal with even if they can.
Any format which /is/ user friendly will have to support things like 'drawings' / sketches which may or may not be auto OCRed for searching.
I'm of the opinion that this won't really be solved until we have //strong// AI to do transcription and formatting for the lazy humans.
Application code should never need to worry about error recovery.
We're kind of close to this for text files, if only Windows and related programs would join the rest of the sane world. Stop adding 'BOM Marks' and just assume everything is UTF-8 (at least for any txt file created after 2000 and all application stdin/out/errs).
However the biggest barrier here is a complete disconnect between interested parties. Adobe wants to make money and keeps 'pdf' locked away. It's also bad because paper size is enforced, instead of having an aspect ratio, and positioning for different elements. Even HTML rendering isn't that simple, and NO designer is working using those tools. Additionally that complexity is FAR above what the average user can handle and WAY above what they want to deal with even if they can.
Any format which /is/ user friendly will have to support things like 'drawings' / sketches which may or may not be auto OCRed for searching.
I'm of the opinion that this won't really be solved until we have //strong// AI to do transcription and formatting for the lazy humans.
Dropbox is fine until they go bankrupt or get acquired by another company which isn't interested in acting as your archive.
Not the OP, but 98% of the time that someone sends me a .key file for a Mac Keynote presentation, my Keynote application is out of date and cannot open the file. Additionally, it sometimes cannot update either, unless other components are updated, such as the entire OS itself.
A bare minimum requirement for me would be, "a computer can be reasonably expected to open the file". Yes, a computer without the correct application installed could not reasonably be expected to open the file. But here is a computer, perfectly capable of displaying the file, but choosing not to do so. Note that these are not files that are created with the new Keynote that I may not have installed. These are normal Keynote files created in the same version I have - but now my version isn't good enough to open files any more, it would seem.
A piece of paper would never do that.
A bare minimum requirement for me would be, "a computer can be reasonably expected to open the file". Yes, a computer without the correct application installed could not reasonably be expected to open the file. But here is a computer, perfectly capable of displaying the file, but choosing not to do so. Note that these are not files that are created with the new Keynote that I may not have installed. These are normal Keynote files created in the same version I have - but now my version isn't good enough to open files any more, it would seem.
A piece of paper would never do that.
> Yes, a computer without the correct application installed could not reasonably be expected to open the file.
I disagree.
I write my presentations in Org. Perfectly readable even to peooole without Emacs.
I do my accounting using hledger. Perfectly readable etc.
I do my $task using ${plain text format}, peefectly readble even to people without ${tool that helps me format the document nicely}. Etc.
I disagree.
I write my presentations in Org. Perfectly readable even to peooole without Emacs.
I do my accounting using hledger. Perfectly readable etc.
I do my $task using ${plain text format}, peefectly readble even to people without ${tool that helps me format the document nicely}. Etc.
You're part of a minority among a minority. And many institutions require you use some certain application software and file formats.
I'll cut in rudely with my own reply.
Sharing files is unbelievably inconvenient. Sharing files to my mum in the other room involves copying files to a USB drive and moving them manually, after I reformat a USB to ntfs or fat32. It doesn't matter that both of our computers are on a LAN because by default we have no pre-existing convenient ways to share files. With her being on Windows and me being on GNU/Linux, I'm not even sure which program I would pick if I could install one. For anyone that isn't in USB drive proximity, I have to brainstorm a solution every single time I want to share a file for every person I want to give it too. This is all despite the fact that theoretically, there are a million different ways that we could share a file.
Sharing files is unbelievably inconvenient. Sharing files to my mum in the other room involves copying files to a USB drive and moving them manually, after I reformat a USB to ntfs or fat32. It doesn't matter that both of our computers are on a LAN because by default we have no pre-existing convenient ways to share files. With her being on Windows and me being on GNU/Linux, I'm not even sure which program I would pick if I could install one. For anyone that isn't in USB drive proximity, I have to brainstorm a solution every single time I want to share a file for every person I want to give it too. This is all despite the fact that theoretically, there are a million different ways that we could share a file.
You can share directories between Windows and Linux. The Ubuntu machine I'm typing on has a folder shared with the Windows 7 machine next to it. You can set this up entirely from the GUI. It's called "Samba" on Linux.
For these cases, I use a trivial program I wrote myself that just serves a specified directory over HTTP, optionally with basic auth.
Most home routers have dynamic DNS updates enabled, so the only instruction for the other side is "put $hostname into your browser window", sometimes followed by a "prefix it with http://" if their browser insists on searching Google for that name.
It requires some effort and knowledge on my side but tends to work pretty well for the other person. Even better when you have some instant messaging channel available where you can just send a direct link.
Most home routers have dynamic DNS updates enabled, so the only instruction for the other side is "put $hostname into your browser window", sometimes followed by a "prefix it with http://" if their browser insists on searching Google for that name.
It requires some effort and knowledge on my side but tends to work pretty well for the other person. Even better when you have some instant messaging channel available where you can just send a direct link.
I mean, if you have python installed, no need to write your own:
python -mSimpleHTTPServer
There are numerous better options than a usb drive: Email, cloud storage, almost any messaging client, etc.
But isn't it a bit sad to send files to some cloud-storage or email server farm, probably half-way around the world, just to share between machines which are on the very same LAN?
Yes well that's kind of the problem isn't it? Too many options and no default cross-platform standard.
Most alternatives are really inadequate, especially for large files.
When you are in the same room or even city, I should be able to just move large amounts of data from one computer to a physically adjacent computer without having to go through the internet.
For long distance transfers, I agree with various cloud storage. Upload some files and create a share link. But even this is an annoyance for a large file.
When you are in the same room or even city, I should be able to just move large amounts of data from one computer to a physically adjacent computer without having to go through the internet.
For long distance transfers, I agree with various cloud storage. Upload some files and create a share link. But even this is an annoyance for a large file.
AirDrop on Mac solves this problem. But how do you propose getting Microsoft and Apple to implement a cross platform standard when they have financial incentive to not do so? Cloud storage is the best answer, even though it is an extra technically unnecessary step for local transfer. That said, Even my 60+ technically illiterate mother can do it reliably. I think this is an excellent example of letting “perfect be the enemy of good enough”.
AirDrop is brilliant. I shared 10 pictures with my mother with one click. She accepted with one click and the pictures were instantly available on her iPhone, iPad, mac and Apple TV.
the only problem I have with it is that it can take a few seconds before nearby devices shows up on the sharing screen.
When you read about Kay's Dynabook idea (and get past how the machine mockup looks) you see that he's essentially describing the "computational equivalent" to paper. With such a medium, one could create digital forms as easily as they draw printed forms on paper. And we do not have these types of machines or systems today.
Additionally, there is no better read experience than paper. And consider archiving: digital documents are much harder to preserve than paper documents, and this has enormous implications for public policy, history, and democracy.
Additionally, there is no better read experience than paper. And consider archiving: digital documents are much harder to preserve than paper documents, and this has enormous implications for public policy, history, and democracy.
> Paper is a near-perfect technology
Paper is far from perfect, but it does have some features that certain business processes have come to rely on which files lack. For example: the ability to physically bind an authorization (a signature) to the information that authorization is associated with by putting both on the same sheet of paper.
Paper also doesn't require batteries. It's much more robust in the face of certain kinds of physical abuse.
But paper takes a lot more space to store, and it's a lot harder to transfer from one place to another.
Paper is far from perfect, but it does have some features that certain business processes have come to rely on which files lack. For example: the ability to physically bind an authorization (a signature) to the information that authorization is associated with by putting both on the same sheet of paper.
Paper also doesn't require batteries. It's much more robust in the face of certain kinds of physical abuse.
But paper takes a lot more space to store, and it's a lot harder to transfer from one place to another.
Even as display it sucks. Where's the e-paper that was promised decades ago?
Paper (and pen) have stood the test of time for thousands of years. Warped tech nuts believe they can be replaced by substandard junk electronics. I'm glad consumers aren't so gullible.
Paper (and pen) have stood the test of time for thousands of years. Warped tech nuts believe they can be replaced by substandard junk electronics. I'm glad consumers aren't so gullible.
Paper isn't perfect. For one thing, it costs a hell of a lot more to store paper than to store digital files; we pay a huge amount to store files offsite. And paper used for ephemeral content is inherently wasteful.
Paper is slowly but surely going away. We just finished digitizing all our employee records; all records from now on will be digital. We used to print reams of reports and store them in filing cabinets, shelves, etc but we don't do that anymore. We aren't paperless but it's been a slow and steady march for decades now.
Paper is slowly but surely going away. We just finished digitizing all our employee records; all records from now on will be digital. We used to print reams of reports and store them in filing cabinets, shelves, etc but we don't do that anymore. We aren't paperless but it's been a slow and steady march for decades now.
It's kinda funny, I worked for years as an artist and never used paper and then I became a programmer and I'm drowning in paper. I use post-it notes, notebooks, and loose sheets of paper to track progress, work through concepts, sketch layouts, etc...
I'm not sure what it would take to replace that. Working on paper allows me to disconnect from the digital world and concentrate on logic, it also allows me to organize my information physically.
Maybe a very advanced augmented reality system could offer me everything there plus the ability to hang my post-it notes in mid-air. I'd give that a whirl.
I'm not sure what it would take to replace that. Working on paper allows me to disconnect from the digital world and concentrate on logic, it also allows me to organize my information physically.
Maybe a very advanced augmented reality system could offer me everything there plus the ability to hang my post-it notes in mid-air. I'd give that a whirl.
If you've tried the new iPad Pro with Apple Pencil then you'll have your answer. It's fantastic for sketching and taking notes - the new display eliminates all lag between the stylus and the screen.
It is an expensive solution for sure, but as that kind of technology becomes cheaper, the use case you describe for paper will be reduced as well.
It is an expensive solution for sure, but as that kind of technology becomes cheaper, the use case you describe for paper will be reduced as well.
It wouldn't really replicate my multiple notebooks scattered precisely across my table, unless I had like 5 ipads. Also, not really a fan of Apple's mobile ux, so it's not the solution for me.
I have managed to get rid of some paper usage by having multiple dry erase boards of various sizes. One digital solution I have considered is something like the boogie board. If you're not familiar, it's basically a 10 inch digital whiteboard that can save the screen to an image and costs around $20. That's cheap enough I could have a pile of them and mostly replicate my current process.
I have managed to get rid of some paper usage by having multiple dry erase boards of various sizes. One digital solution I have considered is something like the boogie board. If you're not familiar, it's basically a 10 inch digital whiteboard that can save the screen to an image and costs around $20. That's cheap enough I could have a pile of them and mostly replicate my current process.
iPad UX has changed a lot with iOS 11, I think you’d be surprised at how easily you can switch between notebooks on an iPad or have them side by side. One thing I would suggest is to go to the Apple Store, buy the 10.5” iPad Pro and try it out for 2 weeks with an app called Notability and then return it before 14 days is up if you dislike it. They have a great no-questions-asked return policy at the Apple store. If you end up liking it, you can look for a used model if the new one is too expensive for your tastes.
I think it’s a better long term solution than the boogie boards because it has handwriting recognition and it’s seamless + synced to the cloud without you doing anything. Also, the 120hz refresh rate on the new displays make it behave closer to the physical experience than on past displays where there was a short lag between your stroke and the stroke appearing on screen.
The boogie board is also a great solution if most of your notebooks are meant to be throwaway scratchpads. It might be a better solution than iPad if you don’t intend on keeping the stuff you sketch out. Plus it’s cheaper like you said.
All I’m saying is that it’s something worth trying out at the very least since you can try it with no cost. It’s been working very well for me.
I think it’s a better long term solution than the boogie boards because it has handwriting recognition and it’s seamless + synced to the cloud without you doing anything. Also, the 120hz refresh rate on the new displays make it behave closer to the physical experience than on past displays where there was a short lag between your stroke and the stroke appearing on screen.
The boogie board is also a great solution if most of your notebooks are meant to be throwaway scratchpads. It might be a better solution than iPad if you don’t intend on keeping the stuff you sketch out. Plus it’s cheaper like you said.
All I’m saying is that it’s something worth trying out at the very least since you can try it with no cost. It’s been working very well for me.
> I'm not sure what it would take to replace that. Working on paper allows me to disconnect from the digital world and concentrate on logic, it also allows me to organize my information physically.
How about a device not connected to the internet?
How about a device not connected to the internet?
I'm similar to the poster you were replying to. I think there are two big reasons I use paper. 1) is that I can very quickly format.my notes however I want, draw diagrams and pictures quickly, there's just no restrictions as opposed to using a text editor or notetaking program. 2) is that when I write things by hand I tend to remember them better, and have an easier time understanding concepts when I sketch them out by hand. I really wish I could replace paper with a suitable program, but so far I haven't found it.
What a human can manually generate with pen and pencil is usually a fairly trivial.
Look back a few decades and people used to have shelves full of manuals and binders full of product specs. The cubicle designs are totally different now, partly because we don't have all that printed stuff to deal with.
Look back a few decades and people used to have shelves full of manuals and binders full of product specs. The cubicle designs are totally different now, partly because we don't have all that printed stuff to deal with.
Paper is high-tech. We tend to look down on certain technologies just because they're older, but paper and paperless both have pros and cons.
There's a chasm of complexity between paper and its alternatives. In addition, we already have tons of experience using paper, along with the knowledge of how it should be handled and preserved.
I suspect that much data will be lost due to bit rot, proprietary formats, legacy adapters, DRM, etc. AFAIK, we're still figuring out how long data can be safely stored in many of these newer mediums.
IMO, it's highly desirable to have both options available. I don't really want everything I do passing through computers over which I have no control.
There's a chasm of complexity between paper and its alternatives. In addition, we already have tons of experience using paper, along with the knowledge of how it should be handled and preserved.
I suspect that much data will be lost due to bit rot, proprietary formats, legacy adapters, DRM, etc. AFAIK, we're still figuring out how long data can be safely stored in many of these newer mediums.
IMO, it's highly desirable to have both options available. I don't really want everything I do passing through computers over which I have no control.
Part of it might be generational. I'm older. Any time I'm in a meeting with a presentation, I print it out and make margin notes while the discussion happens.
This really increases my recall and understanding of what was discussed. I've tried digital equivalents of this and it just doesn't work the same for me.
I have noticed that this type of thing is more prevalent with people in my age group (40+). Writing things down, even if you throw it away right afterwards, seems to increase recall more than typing it.
This really increases my recall and understanding of what was discussed. I've tried digital equivalents of this and it just doesn't work the same for me.
I have noticed that this type of thing is more prevalent with people in my age group (40+). Writing things down, even if you throw it away right afterwards, seems to increase recall more than typing it.
> Writing things down, even if you throw it away right afterwards, seems to increase recall more than typing it.
Your intuition here is spot on and backed up by actual research:
https://www.npr.org/2016/04/17/474525392/attention-students-...
Your intuition here is spot on and backed up by actual research:
https://www.npr.org/2016/04/17/474525392/attention-students-...
All else being equal, yes. But the larger benefit of using digital notes like org mode is the ability to apply structure to notes that matches your mental model, thus strengthening your mental model. It's hard to do this with paper without erasing.
On a side note, I am still looking for a simple solution for paper to archivable, searchable PDFs.
The tools coming with my printer/scanner are horrible.
Something without the need to compile a million dependencies and setting up a DBMS.
Ideal process would be: scan to folder, tool runs cleanup and OCR, creates searchable PDF (perhaps with a nice file name) moves to archive folder, done.
Ideas would be more than welcome :)
Something without the need to compile a million dependencies and setting up a DBMS.
Ideal process would be: scan to folder, tool runs cleanup and OCR, creates searchable PDF (perhaps with a nice file name) moves to archive folder, done.
Ideas would be more than welcome :)
Now this is a startup that I would totally be evangelist for.
See also: attempts to replace whiteboards/blackboards.
We bought some Cisco whiteboard thing at work. Great! Collaborative whiteboarding with our team in Austin.
Guess what one fucking feature it didn't have?
That's right! You couldn't just dial another whiteboard on the network and start immediately drawing together with another person.
(Ironically, when I tried to demonstrate this issue to one of our IT folks, the damn smartboard refused to start right up because it needed to install a firmware upgrade - that provided this functionality.)
Guess what one fucking feature it didn't have?
That's right! You couldn't just dial another whiteboard on the network and start immediately drawing together with another person.
(Ironically, when I tried to demonstrate this issue to one of our IT folks, the damn smartboard refused to start right up because it needed to install a firmware upgrade - that provided this functionality.)
I'm glad the article mentioned ReMarkable. Mine arrived about a month ago and I love it -- carry it everywhere now. It's done a great job of taking care of my need for scratch paper to jot notes on, and it's really kind of an improvement over keeping track of lots of bits of paper or having a separate notebook.
It's so far the best of both worlds of paper and electronics.
Bit pricey though.
https://remarkable.com/
(I haven't been paid, reimbursed, or otherwise incentivized for this in any way, except that I think it's cool and I want it to be successful.)
It's so far the best of both worlds of paper and electronics.
Bit pricey though.
https://remarkable.com/
(I haven't been paid, reimbursed, or otherwise incentivized for this in any way, except that I think it's cool and I want it to be successful.)
What do you intend to replace it with? PDFs?
If there's to be a universal "digital paper", it would need a lot of planning and agreement. With the amount of churn of stuff in technology these days I don't see anything stable enough to "replace paper" anytime soon.
Thinking about this problem reminds me of the transition from linotype machines at the New York Times, to fully computerised systems in 1978.
The computer systems are shown at the end of the wonderful documentary 'Farewell, Etaoin Shrdlu' https://vimeo.com/127605643#t=24m55s
The amount of thought and preparation put into those systems, and the thought and preparation put into the change from ink-and-metal to pixels-and-bytes seems remarkable. Perhaps the (lack of) co-ordination between hardware and software today is to blame? Many industries have their IT problems handled with software-only solutions, generally with little thought for what the solution will look like 10--or even 5--years down the road.
I would love to hear from people in industries like medical software, and flight software; where thought and preparation is--hopefully--given some budget and priority.
If there's to be a universal "digital paper", it would need a lot of planning and agreement. With the amount of churn of stuff in technology these days I don't see anything stable enough to "replace paper" anytime soon.
Thinking about this problem reminds me of the transition from linotype machines at the New York Times, to fully computerised systems in 1978.
The computer systems are shown at the end of the wonderful documentary 'Farewell, Etaoin Shrdlu' https://vimeo.com/127605643#t=24m55s
The amount of thought and preparation put into those systems, and the thought and preparation put into the change from ink-and-metal to pixels-and-bytes seems remarkable. Perhaps the (lack of) co-ordination between hardware and software today is to blame? Many industries have their IT problems handled with software-only solutions, generally with little thought for what the solution will look like 10--or even 5--years down the road.
I would love to hear from people in industries like medical software, and flight software; where thought and preparation is--hopefully--given some budget and priority.
I blame the lack of good open source tools for creating and verifying signed PDF (or an alternative format).
Faxes are deeply misunderstood, I still occasionally have vendors and clients say "we need an original" or "we need a signature" or some other brain damaging excuse. And these aren't companies in the sticks that don't know it's 2018, these are large (legacy) companies in big cities.
Faxes are deeply misunderstood, I still occasionally have vendors and clients say "we need an original" or "we need a signature" or some other brain damaging excuse. And these aren't companies in the sticks that don't know it's 2018, these are large (legacy) companies in big cities.
When I look at banks they incentivize you to go back to paper. I signed up for paperless for a while only to realize that they allow you to retrieve online statements only for the last 2 years. If you have a business and need to be ready for an audit, you are better off with paper statements.
Why I don't go Paperless..
1. Only My paper bank statements posted to me are correct.
My bank statements printed off from the internet and replacement ones posted out are incorrect.
The interest income earned is only shown on the correct dates on the original paper copies posted out, all the others the interest dates are shown in the incorrect month and thus don't match up what should be shown in my income tax return and don't agree with the interest summary by the bank.
2. Only my original posted Credit card statements are guaranteed correct.
I have had changes made by the bank IN PREVIOUS FINANCIAL YEARS!!!! on the online versions of my statements, such as changes to amounts paid!!!!
Without the original paper copies I could never argue my case.
1. Only My paper bank statements posted to me are correct.
My bank statements printed off from the internet and replacement ones posted out are incorrect.
The interest income earned is only shown on the correct dates on the original paper copies posted out, all the others the interest dates are shown in the incorrect month and thus don't match up what should be shown in my income tax return and don't agree with the interest summary by the bank.
2. Only my original posted Credit card statements are guaranteed correct.
I have had changes made by the bank IN PREVIOUS FINANCIAL YEARS!!!! on the online versions of my statements, such as changes to amounts paid!!!!
Without the original paper copies I could never argue my case.
A "pay per less" world has happened; each year you pay the same, but get less.
Whenever I fill up PDFs for my work visa to the US, I saw paperwork reduction act or something written on the PDFs. I thought it was to reduce paper usage or was it paperwork ?.
But in the end, there is always a pile of paper. I would say in the last mile of the process paper is used. I applied for Canadian immigration fully online. But in the end they asked "signed certified photocopies", statements, declarations, consents, affidavits everything in paper with notary's ink seal and sign.
Maybe the laws has to change too. Many laws & processes still needs ink seal and signatures. A digital signature or a digital photo is not enough.
Maybe the laws has to change too. Many laws & processes still needs ink seal and signatures. A digital signature or a digital photo is not enough.
If we could snap our fingers and have ultra thin flexible paperwhite lcd sheets how would they be best put to use?
I could see binding 100 of them together that you could 'flash' to create a true e-book
I could see binding 100 of them together that you could 'flash' to create a true e-book
Star Trek comes to mind for me. PADDs, though (ironically enough) bulkier and clunkier than any real-world tablet device today, are treated as basically disposable. Characters are usually shown with one at a time, but it's implied they can get as many as they want, with a few scenes where a character has five or six PADDs laid out to compare different texts in a physical way despite them (presumably) all accessing the same data source.
Paper seems to have greater weight in court than electronic records, so people keep everything on paper in case they need to show documents in court one day.
Could you imagine how much wasted paper comes out of a supermarket in the form of receipts? Most are printed by default then discarded.
I reckon at least 10 garbage bags worth of paper a day at least from one store alone. Maybe I'll run some quick numbers later on.
Paperless in that case would be gold. Just email my receipts so I can archive 'em because I'll only ever need them in the future, not the present.
I reckon at least 10 garbage bags worth of paper a day at least from one store alone. Maybe I'll run some quick numbers later on.
Paperless in that case would be gold. Just email my receipts so I can archive 'em because I'll only ever need them in the future, not the present.
If it were up to me I'd shut down the postal service. Everything I get in the mail could come digitally (such as bills), not at all (freaking junk mail), or via Fed Ex/UPS/Joe's Courier Service (anything someone really, really thinks I need to have physically and wants to pay for).
I hate dealing with paper. I especially hate it when it is redundant. Hate it with a passion.
I hate dealing with paper. I especially hate it when it is redundant. Hate it with a passion.
I just want fax to go away.
What did you use it for last time?
A lot of massive companies still use fax to place orders. Supporting it is a nightmare.
It's still in big use in many spaces. Like withdrawal from a 401k, or sales orders from a manufacturer, etc. The hinge seems to be that faxes are exempt from PCI/HIPPA and other privacy regulations.
In healthcare, all the time: https://www.vox.com/health-care/2017/10/30/16228054/american... . Faxes help impede competition and raise provider profits.
Our healthcare industry seems to be unwilling to leave the 20th century.
The only aspect that left 20th century is the cost of it.
As both an interface (including actively functional, not just passive, e.g. mark-up) and a data store, it still has advantages.
Of itself, and in the way we function, cognitively (e.g. spacial orientation).
P.S. Thank god they still haven't managed to make it blink at me. Harry Potter and his animated pictures, be damned! ;-)
Of itself, and in the way we function, cognitively (e.g. spacial orientation).
P.S. Thank god they still haven't managed to make it blink at me. Harry Potter and his animated pictures, be damned! ;-)
When new mediums appear, usually they don't get rid of the previous ones but coexist with them. Besides, paper is really good at some things, changing it just because it is more techy is not something valuable to anyone.
The aim is not to get rid of paper but to use the best tool for the job. So paper still is the best tool but for less and less jobs. We won’t ever need to get rid of paper though.
I've noticed eGovernance increases paper usage
Majority of paper is used as toilet paper while rest of the paper usage is being slowly replaced by digital means. So stop using toilet paper. Use bidets. Having diarrhoea equals many trees ! As long as there is demand for toilet paper, there won't be a paperless world. Western world will find this difficult to admit this, but any counter arguments are welcome.
My world has been (near) paperless for almost a decade. Perhaps I'm special?
TLDR: sales decrease in paper for printing & writing more than being offset by Amazon effect (packaging; food and drink too) & tissue.
Analog will always be practical.
- We don't send physical letters in envelopes anymore, we send emails.
- We don't send documents via fax or courier, we send them digitally.
- We don't apply for jobs by mailing in resumes, we apply online.
- We don't file taxes or other applications using snail mail, we send them online.
- We don't receive statements and invoices in our mailbox, we get them in our inbox.
- We don't send photocopies, we send pictures.
- We don't use checks or even currency notes, we use credit cards.
- We don't read physical newspapers, we read articles online via HN.
- We don't read physical books, we read e-books.
Yes yes, I know people still do some of the above things. But the quantity of paper-use for the above has fallen precipitously, and it's falling even further everyday.
I still use pen-and-paper occasionally to sketch out my thoughts in an unstructured way, and I do like sending letters as a gesture of my extended effort. But for any kind of business dealing or inter-person interaction, paper is on life-support, and is going to be DOA in another decade or two. And everytime I think of paper statements and requests for photocopies to be mailed in, all I can say is good riddance.