Notable – A Markdown-based note-taking app(github.com)
github.com
Notable – A Markdown-based note-taking app
https://github.com/notable/notable
105 comments
Author here, I realize how from the user perspective if the app stayed open-source and I still kept working on it full-time that would have been better, but that scenario is unrealistic, I just couldn't justify to myself working on it full-time without getting any revenue out of it and releasing everything as open-source, and I've been working on it for about 18 months now.
If somebody else can justify that proposition to themselves they are more than welcome to fork the app from the last available open-source version and take the open-source path.
Open-sourcing it again is not out of the table, but I need to make the project financially sustainable before considering this.
By the way a lot of the interesting libraries used inside the app are released as open-source still, mostly under my profile: https://github.com/fabiospampinato?tab=repositories&type=sou...
If somebody else can justify that proposition to themselves they are more than welcome to fork the app from the last available open-source version and take the open-source path.
Open-sourcing it again is not out of the table, but I need to make the project financially sustainable before considering this.
By the way a lot of the interesting libraries used inside the app are released as open-source still, mostly under my profile: https://github.com/fabiospampinato?tab=repositories&type=sou...
Has the open source branch of the project stopped entirely or is it more of the "open source core" approach used by Sidekiq and others?
How do you think about the growth/monetization trade-offs?
How do you think about the growth/monetization trade-offs?
> Has the open source branch of the project stopped entirely or is it more of the "open source core" approach used by Sidekiq and others?
No further commits. However most of the core libraries I wrote for it are open-source, so in some sense it's not entirely closed.
> How do you think about the growth/monetization trade-offs?
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by that.
No further commits. However most of the core libraries I wrote for it are open-source, so in some sense it's not entirely closed.
> How do you think about the growth/monetization trade-offs?
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by that.
All of this said, I've recently found Foam hard to beat. Awesome markdown "thought web" experience built right into VSCode. Refreshing approach after years of mediocre Electron apps
https://github.com/foambubble/foam
https://github.com/foambubble/foam
I use this too but have already extended it a lot. What I don't really understand is what the Foam extension itself does (I think nothing yet?!).
I'm not interested in publishing so I instead focused on adding extensions for things like tags (to get closer to the Zettelkasten principle) and more features like graphs (e.g. using mermaid). I would recommend installing 'Markdown Preview Enhanced' to really improve the experience.
I'm not interested in publishing so I instead focused on adding extensions for things like tags (to get closer to the Zettelkasten principle) and more features like graphs (e.g. using mermaid). I would recommend installing 'Markdown Preview Enhanced' to really improve the experience.
2nd for FOAM. Its really awesome. this VSCode as a platform is taking off. There are other markdown renderers like dotgraph that can easily be embedded in your visuals using other extensions. And then all the power of VScode editing on top. It's a shame for obsidian tho...
I also like Typora as a markdown editor. Nice in-page editing. Obsidian is good for a project overview, with the map (graph) view but it's not that great as a single-page editor tool.
I also like Typora as a markdown editor. Nice in-page editing. Obsidian is good for a project overview, with the map (graph) view but it's not that great as a single-page editor tool.
Author here, commenting on the "I am not sure how I feel about OSS projects getting some attention and then closing source" part of your message.
I think that sounds sketchy to some people, but hear me out:
1. I couldn't stand using Evernote anymore, I couldn't find a Markdown-based alternative that I really liked, I thought I would make one for myself.
2. After the app was "done", at least enough for it to be usable for me, I released it on GitHub, essentially because open-source is my default, and shared it on the internet.
3. The app got a bit of traction and I thought I would continue working on it maybe for a bit longer.
4. At some point months of my time had been put into it, and many more months were needed before the app could start to generate some revenue (I'm ~18 months in now, and no revenue yet), so I couldn't justify releasing all the code anymore, but I still wanted to improve the app.
At this point in the story what would you do? I saw the following options:
1. Abandon Notable and move onto other projects. But why would I do that? I like working on it, and people seem to like it.
2. Rename Notable into something else and make another repo. I think this would have been considered the "fairer" option for some people here, but if you think about it it doesn't really make sense: Notable-open would still receive no further open-source commits, I would have to ask all my existing users to move to another app for some reason (breaking automatic updates), and frankly I would even need to find a new name, which I had made a logo for, bought the "notable.md" domain and registered a bunch of online accounts with that name already.
3. Releasing the code with a more restrictive license, but I don't really believe in licenses, like a license to me is not a law of nature that fundamentally forbids people from copying the entire app, making a few tweaks, and selling a competing product out of that, it just means that if I'm convinced somebody has done that, and there are laws in his/her country, and if I sue him/her, then probably I will win. For a project that has net me a negative income essentially in opportunity cost, so far at least, why would I go for that trouble?
4. The path that I ended up taking.
Do you people see any other options? Do you have any strong arguments for why I should have taken another path?
Slight rant: I'd be much more impressed if the people strongly criticizing how I spent my time, largely solely to the benefit of Notable's users and the open-source community as a whole (almost all core components of the app are standalone libraries I'm open-sourcing fully), had taken the path they are advocating for themselves.
I think that sounds sketchy to some people, but hear me out:
1. I couldn't stand using Evernote anymore, I couldn't find a Markdown-based alternative that I really liked, I thought I would make one for myself.
2. After the app was "done", at least enough for it to be usable for me, I released it on GitHub, essentially because open-source is my default, and shared it on the internet.
3. The app got a bit of traction and I thought I would continue working on it maybe for a bit longer.
4. At some point months of my time had been put into it, and many more months were needed before the app could start to generate some revenue (I'm ~18 months in now, and no revenue yet), so I couldn't justify releasing all the code anymore, but I still wanted to improve the app.
At this point in the story what would you do? I saw the following options:
1. Abandon Notable and move onto other projects. But why would I do that? I like working on it, and people seem to like it.
2. Rename Notable into something else and make another repo. I think this would have been considered the "fairer" option for some people here, but if you think about it it doesn't really make sense: Notable-open would still receive no further open-source commits, I would have to ask all my existing users to move to another app for some reason (breaking automatic updates), and frankly I would even need to find a new name, which I had made a logo for, bought the "notable.md" domain and registered a bunch of online accounts with that name already.
3. Releasing the code with a more restrictive license, but I don't really believe in licenses, like a license to me is not a law of nature that fundamentally forbids people from copying the entire app, making a few tweaks, and selling a competing product out of that, it just means that if I'm convinced somebody has done that, and there are laws in his/her country, and if I sue him/her, then probably I will win. For a project that has net me a negative income essentially in opportunity cost, so far at least, why would I go for that trouble?
4. The path that I ended up taking.
Do you people see any other options? Do you have any strong arguments for why I should have taken another path?
Slight rant: I'd be much more impressed if the people strongly criticizing how I spent my time, largely solely to the benefit of Notable's users and the open-source community as a whole (almost all core components of the app are standalone libraries I'm open-sourcing fully), had taken the path they are advocating for themselves.
Author here, it's nice to see Notable linked to on HN by somebody else! I was planning on posting about it myself after v1.9 gets released though, as pretty much everything changed since the last version available in that repo.
If you want to try a not-yet final version of v1.9 you can find it here: https://github.com/notable/notable-experimental/releases It's quite stable at this point and I would trust it more with my data over v1.8, but I haven't written the new tutorial notes and built-in documentation for it yet, and I need to rewrite the search engine before releasing v1.9 final.
If you want to get a quick sneak peek about v1.9 I had recorded a video about it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8ERHvuhFH8 It's about 2 months old now, and it only goes over a bunch of new features I had implemented at that point in time.
We also have a chat by the way, if you'd like to keep track of the progress more closely: https://chat.notable.app
Hopefully I'll see you back soon once v1.9 gets released, that will be a lot more exiting than the current v1.8.4.
If you want to try a not-yet final version of v1.9 you can find it here: https://github.com/notable/notable-experimental/releases It's quite stable at this point and I would trust it more with my data over v1.8, but I haven't written the new tutorial notes and built-in documentation for it yet, and I need to rewrite the search engine before releasing v1.9 final.
If you want to get a quick sneak peek about v1.9 I had recorded a video about it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8ERHvuhFH8 It's about 2 months old now, and it only goes over a bunch of new features I had implemented at that point in time.
We also have a chat by the way, if you'd like to keep track of the progress more closely: https://chat.notable.app
Hopefully I'll see you back soon once v1.9 gets released, that will be a lot more exiting than the current v1.8.4.
My biggest problem with these note-taking apps is that there is no way to have a manual order in the file list.
I could name everything as `001-scene1.md`, `002-scene2.md`. But if I want to change the order, it's an O(n) operation by hand, which is painful.
Another thing is that I really want a good pen support. Many notes I take are not texts.
The reason we have so many "Yet-another-note-taking-app" is probably that everyone has a few personal quirks when taking notes, thus the requirement differs from person to person.
I could name everything as `001-scene1.md`, `002-scene2.md`. But if I want to change the order, it's an O(n) operation by hand, which is painful.
Another thing is that I really want a good pen support. Many notes I take are not texts.
The reason we have so many "Yet-another-note-taking-app" is probably that everyone has a few personal quirks when taking notes, thus the requirement differs from person to person.
Notable's author here.
> My biggest problem with these note-taking apps is that there is no way to have a manual order in the file list.
This has come up a few times, I don't have anything against it, I'm just not sure how it should work exactly. Like since the app supports sorting notes by a few dimensions (title, creation date, modification date), how would a manual sort order fit into this? Would that be a separate sorting dimension? Would that work alongside the built-in dimensions? How do you know if a note is being rendered at position X because a built-in rule or because you manually moved there? How should the user remove manually-set note orders?
If you have any suggestions I'm all hears, so far I haven't been able to think of a really good solution to this.
> The reason we have so many "Yet-another-note-taking-app" is probably that everyone has a few personal quirks when taking notes, thus the requirement differs from person to person.
I can't speak for all people who made note-taking apps but I would personally agree with this.
Slight rant: part of the problem IMHO is that people have hundreds of note-taking apps to choose from, some of which even completely free and open source, and they just don't want to pay for them, often not even technical users, and if a project is not financially sustainable _eventually_ it's going to die, or it will never get to implement the features needed by those other people that will eventually end up starting new note-taking apps, maybe that's a factor that contributed to the proliferation of all these apps too.
> My biggest problem with these note-taking apps is that there is no way to have a manual order in the file list.
This has come up a few times, I don't have anything against it, I'm just not sure how it should work exactly. Like since the app supports sorting notes by a few dimensions (title, creation date, modification date), how would a manual sort order fit into this? Would that be a separate sorting dimension? Would that work alongside the built-in dimensions? How do you know if a note is being rendered at position X because a built-in rule or because you manually moved there? How should the user remove manually-set note orders?
If you have any suggestions I'm all hears, so far I haven't been able to think of a really good solution to this.
> The reason we have so many "Yet-another-note-taking-app" is probably that everyone has a few personal quirks when taking notes, thus the requirement differs from person to person.
I can't speak for all people who made note-taking apps but I would personally agree with this.
Slight rant: part of the problem IMHO is that people have hundreds of note-taking apps to choose from, some of which even completely free and open source, and they just don't want to pay for them, often not even technical users, and if a project is not financially sustainable _eventually_ it's going to die, or it will never get to implement the features needed by those other people that will eventually end up starting new note-taking apps, maybe that's a factor that contributed to the proliferation of all these apps too.
> Like since the app supports sorting notes by a few dimensions (title, creation date, modification date), how would a manual sort order fit into this?
Just store a position on the note. When someone doesn't have a sort order, order by the position. When you do, order first by the value then by the sort order.
Just store a position on the note. When someone doesn't have a sort order, order by the position. When you do, order first by the value then by the sort order.
Even that is tricky, what's a position? Is it tied to the current sorting dimension only? And all my other questions I still don't have good answers for.
Not the person you're asking and I'm not sure if it's a good example to base anything off of, but the only example I could think of is Jira.
It has a "rank" attribute that it somehow keeps track of for tickets. Somehow that rank still works when you have a list of tickets from multiple projects (each with tickets that could have their own rank as well).
IMO a custom order should only be relevant to whatever the native view is that that note shows up in. I haven't used notable (yet), but I assume you have folders/notebooks/etc that the note is stored in. When in a view that shows the contents of that folder (and nothing else), you could allow users to move the note's sort position.
In any sort of search or tag view that shows notes from multiple folders, I would expect the notes to be ordered by date/name and not by this custom order.
It has a "rank" attribute that it somehow keeps track of for tickets. Somehow that rank still works when you have a list of tickets from multiple projects (each with tickets that could have their own rank as well).
IMO a custom order should only be relevant to whatever the native view is that that note shows up in. I haven't used notable (yet), but I assume you have folders/notebooks/etc that the note is stored in. When in a view that shows the contents of that folder (and nothing else), you could allow users to move the note's sort position.
In any sort of search or tag view that shows notes from multiple folders, I would expect the notes to be ordered by date/name and not by this custom order.
I'll take a look at Jira, if you like how they handle this they probably have got the logic figured out well already.
One solution when going with lexicographical ordering is to use a bigger step, so that you can reorder things without having to renumber all the files.
Linux conf files often use this technique so that they can load in the right order while still making it easy for you to insert your own additions at any point: e.g. /etc/fonts/conf.d/{nn}-{slug}.conf, the numbers I have in there are 10, 10, 20, 30, 40, 45, 45, 49, 50, 51, 60, 60, 65, 65, 69, 80, 90.
You can also just add more digits after the number and disregard any neatness of scheme; 0011-{slug} and so forth will go after 001-{slug}.
I don’t say either of these are good solutions, but they’re possibilities.
Linux conf files often use this technique so that they can load in the right order while still making it easy for you to insert your own additions at any point: e.g. /etc/fonts/conf.d/{nn}-{slug}.conf, the numbers I have in there are 10, 10, 20, 30, 40, 45, 45, 49, 50, 51, 60, 60, 65, 65, 69, 80, 90.
You can also just add more digits after the number and disregard any neatness of scheme; 0011-{slug} and so forth will go after 001-{slug}.
I don’t say either of these are good solutions, but they’re possibilities.
I had my own note taking app a while back. And that’s exactly what I realized. There will never be a mass market note taking app because of that. However, it’s also nice in way because there will be many many niche players.
Personally I have been a fan of Joplin https://joplinapp.org for note taking.
It is also markdown-based with all kinds of features and is MIT licensed.
I am a huge fan of Joplin. Love that it has both a GUI as well as terminal interface and syncs via Dropbox. I can use vim emulation in the GUI and real vim when running from the terminal.Oh - and it has a mobile app too. All libre software.
I've been incredibly happy with Joplin, to the point of a recurring subscription on Patreon. It's got everything I want: cross-platform, FOSS, sync with webDAV, and a good clean interface. I strongly recommend it.
Joplin has a broken mobile interface on iOS. I had hopes, but they were dashed.
Yeah, it works but needs some serious help. Apart from it not acting like an iOS app at all, the one thing it REALLY needs is the "send to" support.
What’s broken about it? Admittedly I haven’t been using it for more than a month, but the interface seems to work just fine on my iPhone.
I remember trying some basic operations a few months ago and it was just not working properly at all. Like I couldn't scroll when the keyboard was up levels of borked.
The iOS-can’t-scroll bug was killing me for about 5 months, they finally fixed recently. It’s free software and all but...oof.
I love joplin.
I have two portable installs in different folders - one journaling. The other for work notes. The problem is that only one instance of joplin can work at a time. So to use one, I'd have to kill the other. That is the only reason I'm looking for an alternative
I have two portable installs in different folders - one journaling. The other for work notes. The problem is that only one instance of joplin can work at a time. So to use one, I'd have to kill the other. That is the only reason I'm looking for an alternative
I'm looking for a not taking app, currently using omni notes
Can you share notes with joplin?
Can you backup to my own webdav?
Can you share notes with joplin?
Can you backup to my own webdav?
WebDAV, Nextcloud, Dropbox and one drive are all supported sync endpoints.
Sadly there really isn't any sharing. I mean, you could possibly do it via sharing the same sync endpoint, but there is no control to what would be seen.
Sadly there really isn't any sharing. I mean, you could possibly do it via sharing the same sync endpoint, but there is no control to what would be seen.
> Can you backup to my own webdav?
I used to use Joplin with Fastmail's webdav.
I used to use Joplin with Fastmail's webdav.
Yet another electron-based notetaking app.. There's already so many of those. And it's not even open source (anymore, since version 1.5.1). Why go to closed-source for something like this?
I really miss the old Tomboy. It was lightning fast and you could hotlink to another note just by typing its name. It had keyboard shortcuts for everything and searches were pretty much instant. But it's not maintained anymore, and the "NG" version lost the speediness of it (it was a complete rewrite)
The only thing I didn't like about it was that it was based on mono/.net and that it didn't have a CLI version. But despite using mono it was still really fast, it was just a bit of an installation hassle. I'd still use it today if it was still viable, but the lack of HiDPI support in particular makes it really difficult to use today.
One thing about Tomboy that I was a bit divided about was the lack of images. Today I use OneNote because it's basically the only thing my work supports. But I took much better notes with Tomboy as I always had to type content in my own words, whereas with OneNote I got lazy and just screenshot presentation sheets (which aren't searchable and make the database huge and slow).
I really miss the old Tomboy. It was lightning fast and you could hotlink to another note just by typing its name. It had keyboard shortcuts for everything and searches were pretty much instant. But it's not maintained anymore, and the "NG" version lost the speediness of it (it was a complete rewrite)
The only thing I didn't like about it was that it was based on mono/.net and that it didn't have a CLI version. But despite using mono it was still really fast, it was just a bit of an installation hassle. I'd still use it today if it was still viable, but the lack of HiDPI support in particular makes it really difficult to use today.
One thing about Tomboy that I was a bit divided about was the lack of images. Today I use OneNote because it's basically the only thing my work supports. But I took much better notes with Tomboy as I always had to type content in my own words, whereas with OneNote I got lazy and just screenshot presentation sheets (which aren't searchable and make the database huge and slow).
> Why go to closed-source for something like this?
I used it when it first came out, but immediately moved away when he started talking about monetization and giving up on open source. I fully understand the desire to make money. It's just that it's a notes app and it does the same thing as a gazillion similar apps. When this app goes away you've wasted your money and your time for no reason.
I used it when it first came out, but immediately moved away when he started talking about monetization and giving up on open source. I fully understand the desire to make money. It's just that it's a notes app and it does the same thing as a gazillion similar apps. When this app goes away you've wasted your money and your time for no reason.
> I fully understand the desire to make money.
I don't think people understand that generally if something is financially unsustainable it will die, it's sad that even computer people don't like paying for the software they depend on.
I don't think people understand that generally if something is financially unsustainable it will die, it's sad that even computer people don't like paying for the software they depend on.
Author here, commenting on the "Why go to closed-source for something like this?":
I just couldn't justify to myself continuing working on it full-time, while still not making any revenue, and open-sourcing all of it. So far I've been working on it for about 18 months full-time and I haven't made a penny from it really, some people are generous enough to donate some money to me, but it's extremely difficult to make a living off of open-source.
If anybody doesn't feel the same way about this they are more than welcome to fork the app and take the full open-source path themselves of course.
I just couldn't justify to myself continuing working on it full-time, while still not making any revenue, and open-sourcing all of it. So far I've been working on it for about 18 months full-time and I haven't made a penny from it really, some people are generous enough to donate some money to me, but it's extremely difficult to make a living off of open-source.
If anybody doesn't feel the same way about this they are more than welcome to fork the app and take the full open-source path themselves of course.
Thanks for the reply! Like I said below to another poster, for me it would be a detractor when choosing a new app. For me it's about continuity. Especially in case you couldn't continue working on it for whatever reason, it would still maintain a lot of important data for me. I'd be more comfortable if the source was available so it could be continued if abandoned.
Also (also mentioned this below), hinting that there's monetisation coming up but not specifying any details, will put potential users off.
There's so many payment models you could go for, like a monthly/yearly or lifetime license. I personally hate subscription-based services, no matter how cheap they are, I prefer to spend a bigger amount once. Other people will feel differently, but by not saying anything you're leaving this as a potential concern in a customer's mind as the price and payment model may not suit them in the future.
One thing you might consider is open the source but not legally leaving it open, so using a more restrictive license. Electron apps are never really closed-source anyway as it uses interpreted languages. Opening the source doesn't really preclude charging for it.
I wasn't saying this because I want the app for free (even though it seems to be free right now?). It was just my thoughts as a potential user. I personally have a pet peeve against electron, and what I would be looking for would be more barebones and keyboard-oriented anyway, so I won't use it either way. But I'm sure it will fit the needs of many others.
Anyway not all users/customers are the same but these are just my personal concerns when I saw this. I wasn't aware of Notable. I do wish you the best of luck though and I hope you can make it deliver a decent income!
Also (also mentioned this below), hinting that there's monetisation coming up but not specifying any details, will put potential users off.
There's so many payment models you could go for, like a monthly/yearly or lifetime license. I personally hate subscription-based services, no matter how cheap they are, I prefer to spend a bigger amount once. Other people will feel differently, but by not saying anything you're leaving this as a potential concern in a customer's mind as the price and payment model may not suit them in the future.
One thing you might consider is open the source but not legally leaving it open, so using a more restrictive license. Electron apps are never really closed-source anyway as it uses interpreted languages. Opening the source doesn't really preclude charging for it.
I wasn't saying this because I want the app for free (even though it seems to be free right now?). It was just my thoughts as a potential user. I personally have a pet peeve against electron, and what I would be looking for would be more barebones and keyboard-oriented anyway, so I won't use it either way. But I'm sure it will fit the needs of many others.
Anyway not all users/customers are the same but these are just my personal concerns when I saw this. I wasn't aware of Notable. I do wish you the best of luck though and I hope you can make it deliver a decent income!
> Like I said below to another poster, for me it would be a detractor when choosing a new app. For me it's about continuity. Especially in case you couldn't continue working on it for whatever reason, it would still maintain a lot of important data for me. I'd be more comfortable if the source was available so it could be continued if abandoned.
Right, but if it doesn't make economic sense to put development time into the app in the first place you can essentially consider an app dead already. Potentially this may sound counter intuitive, but paying for closed-source software (closed because otherwise most people won't open up the wallet) may make the software you depend on _more_ sustainable than if it was open-source.
> Also (also mentioned this below), hinting that there's monetisation coming up but not specifying any details, will put potential users off.
How did you get that feeling? It probably happened that I didn't fully quality what I meant by that for the 100th time somewhere, but I tend to remember to write that the mobile app will be paid essentially.
> I personally hate subscription-based services, no matter how cheap they are, I prefer to spend a bigger amount once.
Right, I've heard this comment a bunch of times. So how much do you think you should pay Notable for hosting all your notes and attachments forever? Let's not even account for development time or anything else.
> One thing you might consider is open the source but not legally leaving it open, so using a more restrictive license. Electron apps are never really closed-source anyway as it uses interpreted languages. Opening the source doesn't really preclude charging for it.
Any binary can be patched, using Electron doesn't mean that apps are open-source.
> I personally have a pet peeve against electron, and what I would be looking for would be more barebones and keyboard-oriented anyway, so I won't use it either way.
Notable's zen mode is about as bare-bones as it gets, and if you try the shortcuts system in one of the alphas of v1.9 it's even better than vscode's in some areas.
Right, but if it doesn't make economic sense to put development time into the app in the first place you can essentially consider an app dead already. Potentially this may sound counter intuitive, but paying for closed-source software (closed because otherwise most people won't open up the wallet) may make the software you depend on _more_ sustainable than if it was open-source.
> Also (also mentioned this below), hinting that there's monetisation coming up but not specifying any details, will put potential users off.
How did you get that feeling? It probably happened that I didn't fully quality what I meant by that for the 100th time somewhere, but I tend to remember to write that the mobile app will be paid essentially.
> I personally hate subscription-based services, no matter how cheap they are, I prefer to spend a bigger amount once.
Right, I've heard this comment a bunch of times. So how much do you think you should pay Notable for hosting all your notes and attachments forever? Let's not even account for development time or anything else.
> One thing you might consider is open the source but not legally leaving it open, so using a more restrictive license. Electron apps are never really closed-source anyway as it uses interpreted languages. Opening the source doesn't really preclude charging for it.
Any binary can be patched, using Electron doesn't mean that apps are open-source.
> I personally have a pet peeve against electron, and what I would be looking for would be more barebones and keyboard-oriented anyway, so I won't use it either way.
Notable's zen mode is about as bare-bones as it gets, and if you try the shortcuts system in one of the alphas of v1.9 it's even better than vscode's in some areas.
The problem arises when you are a dev trying put food on the table.
It's easy to talk about how other people's work should be given for free when you have a source of income every month, and your basic needs are covered.
But if the author is trying to live of his work, as it's the case here, it's a decision that should be respected.
And Yes, you can disagree with him, and in that case, you can vote with your wallet by not buying it and using any other app.
It's easy to talk about how other people's work should be given for free when you have a source of income every month, and your basic needs are covered.
But if the author is trying to live of his work, as it's the case here, it's a decision that should be respected.
And Yes, you can disagree with him, and in that case, you can vote with your wallet by not buying it and using any other app.
Well in this case he offers the binary app for free anyway (he only asks for voluntary contributions), so I don't really see how making it closed-source would affect this.
I often support open-source projects financially and I would be a lot less likely to support this now that it's not. It's not just a matter of giving anything for free. It's about continity: That someone else can carry on with the app (and the data I've put in it!) if he decides to give up on it.
But like I said I don't like this particular app anyway for the reasons I mentioned so I don't use it. It would however be a big detractor for me when looking for a new app.
Especially this thing would put me off: "I've decided to figure out how to make it sustainable first before figuring out potentially how to license it, in order to make this less risky for me."
So in other words, there will be monetisation coming later, but no indication on what kind of price or payment model (think monthly, lifetime etc) he will go for. This would be a big uncertainty for me if I were to consider spending time to put my data into this thing. Who knows if I'll find the upcoming price acceptable. This and the continuity thing would make it a non-starter for me, and I assume many others too. Don't forget the market of notetaking apps is very crowded.
I often support open-source projects financially and I would be a lot less likely to support this now that it's not. It's not just a matter of giving anything for free. It's about continity: That someone else can carry on with the app (and the data I've put in it!) if he decides to give up on it.
But like I said I don't like this particular app anyway for the reasons I mentioned so I don't use it. It would however be a big detractor for me when looking for a new app.
Especially this thing would put me off: "I've decided to figure out how to make it sustainable first before figuring out potentially how to license it, in order to make this less risky for me."
So in other words, there will be monetisation coming later, but no indication on what kind of price or payment model (think monthly, lifetime etc) he will go for. This would be a big uncertainty for me if I were to consider spending time to put my data into this thing. Who knows if I'll find the upcoming price acceptable. This and the continuity thing would make it a non-starter for me, and I assume many others too. Don't forget the market of notetaking apps is very crowded.
> Well in this case he offers the binary app for free anyway (he only asks for voluntary contributions), so I don't really see how making it closed-source would affect this.
Building the thing that one can sell takes time you know.
> I often support open-source projects financially and I would be a lot less likely to support this now that it's not.
Do you think honestly that you would spend more on software if everything you depend on was closed source or less? It's not a matter of being greedy, it's just human nature, if one can get something for free it's way less likely that one's going to pay for it, or pay fairly for it.
> It's about continity: That someone else can carry on with the app (and the data I've put in it!) if he decides to give up on it.
I'm not sure I agree with that, if I decide to abandon Notable because it doesn't make financial sense to me, how do you think is going to continue its development? Like if something is not financially sustainable it's probably dead int he first place.
Plus this argument for an app like Notable where notes are written in Markdown and they really truly _are_ the database of the app doesn't make a lot of sense, I don't think you can get less "no vendor lock-in" than this.
> So in other words, there will be monetisation coming later, but no indication on what kind of price or payment model (think monthly, lifetime etc) he will go for.
I haven't figured out the pricing yet, it's probably going to be something around 5 bucks a month. Lifetime licenses are unsustainable, like how much do you think you should pay Notable for hosting all your notes and attachments forever?
Building the thing that one can sell takes time you know.
> I often support open-source projects financially and I would be a lot less likely to support this now that it's not.
Do you think honestly that you would spend more on software if everything you depend on was closed source or less? It's not a matter of being greedy, it's just human nature, if one can get something for free it's way less likely that one's going to pay for it, or pay fairly for it.
> It's about continity: That someone else can carry on with the app (and the data I've put in it!) if he decides to give up on it.
I'm not sure I agree with that, if I decide to abandon Notable because it doesn't make financial sense to me, how do you think is going to continue its development? Like if something is not financially sustainable it's probably dead int he first place.
Plus this argument for an app like Notable where notes are written in Markdown and they really truly _are_ the database of the app doesn't make a lot of sense, I don't think you can get less "no vendor lock-in" than this.
> So in other words, there will be monetisation coming later, but no indication on what kind of price or payment model (think monthly, lifetime etc) he will go for.
I haven't figured out the pricing yet, it's probably going to be something around 5 bucks a month. Lifetime licenses are unsustainable, like how much do you think you should pay Notable for hosting all your notes and attachments forever?
> Building the thing that one can sell takes time you know.
I know, but open-source does not mean free (as in beer), and closed-source does not mean paid. They are essentially unrelated things. You can publish the source but not license it.
> I'm not sure I agree with that, if I decide to abandon Notable because it doesn't make financial sense to me, how do you think is going to continue its development? Like if something is not financially sustainable it's probably dead int he first place.
This disregards the many great free apps that are around :)
But anyway this point came from having the bad experinece of having all my notes in a system that pretty much got abandoned, and it really helped that it was open source to export my notes from its XML format. That's the main reason for that point from my side.
> I haven't figured out the pricing yet, it's probably going to be something around 5 bucks a month. Lifetime licenses are unsustainable, like how much do you think you should pay Notable for hosting all your notes and attachments forever?
Ah, like I said I didn't use the app but I wouldn't really want a note system that uses third-party servers anyway. I'd want to self-host it. With Tomboy I used to just sync its files with OwnCloud (because the built-in sync server was not great).
However that pricing comes very close to other commercial options that are highly regarded, like EverNote (7 euro/month) or OneNote (you can get OneNote on a 5 euro per month O365 subscription that also includes email hosting and 1TB OneDrive). The 'hosted' notetaking market is very competitive. I'm not looking for a hosted option myself but I do know the market (and I use OneNote in work as it's the only thing I'm allowed to use there :( )
I know, but open-source does not mean free (as in beer), and closed-source does not mean paid. They are essentially unrelated things. You can publish the source but not license it.
> I'm not sure I agree with that, if I decide to abandon Notable because it doesn't make financial sense to me, how do you think is going to continue its development? Like if something is not financially sustainable it's probably dead int he first place.
This disregards the many great free apps that are around :)
But anyway this point came from having the bad experinece of having all my notes in a system that pretty much got abandoned, and it really helped that it was open source to export my notes from its XML format. That's the main reason for that point from my side.
> I haven't figured out the pricing yet, it's probably going to be something around 5 bucks a month. Lifetime licenses are unsustainable, like how much do you think you should pay Notable for hosting all your notes and attachments forever?
Ah, like I said I didn't use the app but I wouldn't really want a note system that uses third-party servers anyway. I'd want to self-host it. With Tomboy I used to just sync its files with OwnCloud (because the built-in sync server was not great).
However that pricing comes very close to other commercial options that are highly regarded, like EverNote (7 euro/month) or OneNote (you can get OneNote on a 5 euro per month O365 subscription that also includes email hosting and 1TB OneDrive). The 'hosted' notetaking market is very competitive. I'm not looking for a hosted option myself but I do know the market (and I use OneNote in work as it's the only thing I'm allowed to use there :( )
> I know, but open-source does not mean free (as in beer), and closed-source does not mean paid. They are essentially unrelated things. You can publish the source but not license it.
And what has that to do with your comment about not seeing the point of closing the source when the app is still free? I've answered why releasing the code with a stricter license (or no license) wasn't a viable strategy for me in a reply to the first comment in this HN posting.
> This disregards the many great free apps that are around :)
Which apps have at least the equivalent of somebody working full-time on them for free? And how long do you think that can go on?
> Ah, like I said I didn't use the app but I wouldn't use a note system that uses third-party servers anyway. I'd want to self-host it.
Of course you do, what do you think a fair pricing for that would be then?
> However that pricing comes very close to other commercial options that are highly regarded, like EverNote (7 euro/month) or OneNote (you can get OneNote on a 5 euro per month O365 subscription that also includes email hosting and 1TB OneDrive).
I wouldn't say Evernote is highly regarded, but anyway it's not always about finding the cheapest thing out there, for example I want to write my notes with Markdown, it doesn't matter to me if Evernote or OneNote are free if I can't do that with those apps.
And what has that to do with your comment about not seeing the point of closing the source when the app is still free? I've answered why releasing the code with a stricter license (or no license) wasn't a viable strategy for me in a reply to the first comment in this HN posting.
> This disregards the many great free apps that are around :)
Which apps have at least the equivalent of somebody working full-time on them for free? And how long do you think that can go on?
> Ah, like I said I didn't use the app but I wouldn't use a note system that uses third-party servers anyway. I'd want to self-host it.
Of course you do, what do you think a fair pricing for that would be then?
> However that pricing comes very close to other commercial options that are highly regarded, like EverNote (7 euro/month) or OneNote (you can get OneNote on a 5 euro per month O365 subscription that also includes email hosting and 1TB OneDrive).
I wouldn't say Evernote is highly regarded, but anyway it's not always about finding the cheapest thing out there, for example I want to write my notes with Markdown, it doesn't matter to me if Evernote or OneNote are free if I can't do that with those apps.
Hey I don't want to keep discussing as it starts to feel like an argument and that was never my intention :)
But I'd pay 20-40 euro for a good notetaking app with self-host capability. Maybe 50 if it's really good.
But I'd pay 20-40 euro for a good notetaking app with self-host capability. Maybe 50 if it's really good.
I agree the discussion in starting to get annoying.
Let me just mention that with that amount of money I can buy about 2~5 fresh pizzas, if a good note-taking app provides about the same value to you maybe you don't even need one.
Let me just mention that with that amount of money I can buy about 2~5 fresh pizzas, if a good note-taking app provides about the same value to you maybe you don't even need one.
For some historical perspective, consider this. When Tomboy was new, people complained about its ‘bloat’. Why? Because it’s ‘unnecessarily’ written in .NET, and Mono was a ‘huge and bloated’ dependency.
It was a little more than that. It was the only app on the live CD of several major distros that relied on Mono. That meant, back in the days of CD's that could hold 800 MB (?) you had to remove a whole lot of other stuff from the live CD, all for an app that most people didn't use. (As was pointed out at the time, what's the purpose of a notes app on a live CD, where you don't even have persistent storage?) It was widely perceived, correctly in my opinion, as a way to get Mono installed on everyone's machines. After the pushback Miguel de Icaza got pissed, trashed Linux every chance he had, and switched to Mac. I'm not going to relitigate all of that, but it wasn't just that Mono was bloated.
* Here's just one link: https://tirania.org/blog/archive/2013/Mar-05.html
"Machine would suspend and resume without problem, WiFi just worked, audio did not stop working, I spent three weeks without having to recompile the kernel to adjust this or that, nor fighting the video drivers, or deal with the bizarre and random speed degradation that my ThinkPad suffered."
* Here's just one link: https://tirania.org/blog/archive/2013/Mar-05.html
"Machine would suspend and resume without problem, WiFi just worked, audio did not stop working, I spent three weeks without having to recompile the kernel to adjust this or that, nor fighting the video drivers, or deal with the bizarre and random speed degradation that my ThinkPad suffered."
Haha that random speed degredation happened to me even in Windows. Turned out to be a bug in the T470 firmware that throttled the cores down to a couple of hundred Mhz when on battery. I could literally watch the windows being drawn. Not sure if this was what happened for him, probably not as he wrote that years before the T470 was released, but I'm just saying it's not necessarily Linux related.
But overall I've had no such issues with Linux during the last years. I use all 3 desktop platforms a lot, and my favourite was Mac, but due to Apple's constant "dumbing down" (both the OS and hardware) to appeal to the iPhone/iPad userbase it meets my needs as a power users less and less.
But overall I've had no such issues with Linux during the last years. I use all 3 desktop platforms a lot, and my favourite was Mac, but due to Apple's constant "dumbing down" (both the OS and hardware) to appeal to the iPhone/iPad userbase it meets my needs as a power users less and less.
I know, and I don't like the fact that it uses .NET either.. Especially because it doesn't use plain .NET but GTK as well. It's a bit of a hassle installing, even on Windows systems that come with .NET but not GTK.
However its performance is amazing, it's the fastest notetaking app I've ever used. And I also really loved the lack of the concept of 'saving'. Everything you type is automatically saved.
However its performance is amazing, it's the fastest notetaking app I've ever used. And I also really loved the lack of the concept of 'saving'. Everything you type is automatically saved.
One key difference is that you don't have to bundle a full copy of .NET with your app, consuming additional download bandwidth, install space, and RAM when running. Running 6 Electron apps is running 6 different browsers all at the same time.
Yes this is exactly why I don't like Electron.
But also: The UI. Electron apps have a very distinct "non-native" UX about them. Sure they look kinda pretty in many cases but they don't integrate well with every client OS. They all do their own UI thing, just like in the early days of Linux on the desktop.
There's a few gems that use Electron really well. VS Code comes to mind. But even Microsoft itself publishes some really poor electron apps, like Skype for Business and Teams for Mac that are horrible resource hogs.
But also: The UI. Electron apps have a very distinct "non-native" UX about them. Sure they look kinda pretty in many cases but they don't integrate well with every client OS. They all do their own UI thing, just like in the early days of Linux on the desktop.
There's a few gems that use Electron really well. VS Code comes to mind. But even Microsoft itself publishes some really poor electron apps, like Skype for Business and Teams for Mac that are horrible resource hogs.
Is there something (very) similar to Tomboy? Man I loved that thing and considered multiple times that I should write my own version (besides are horrible vue app approach I failed on this).
Yeah I know, I miss it so much too. It was just the perfect app. Not trying to do too much, not too little, and really efficient at what it did. I could type out structured notes while on a call without even having to look at the screen. And finding them back was so much easier than in OneNote.
As I mentioned there is Tomboy-NG: https://github.com/tomboy-notes/tomboy-ng/releases/tag/v0.29 . It's a complete rewrite in a different language (Pascal with Qt).
It doesn't have the same ultra-fast feel of the old one though. And hyperlinks to other notes don't seem to update instantly like on the old one. I've tried it once but I never had that real "wow" feeling of the original.
As I mentioned there is Tomboy-NG: https://github.com/tomboy-notes/tomboy-ng/releases/tag/v0.29 . It's a complete rewrite in a different language (Pascal with Qt).
It doesn't have the same ultra-fast feel of the old one though. And hyperlinks to other notes don't seem to update instantly like on the old one. I've tried it once but I never had that real "wow" feeling of the original.
I didn't even realise it wasn't open source anymore! But it is indeed up to them! Perhaps they have something planned
Now that Notable is closed-source, it feels like a feature-incomplete version of Inkdrop: https://www.inkdrop.app/
Also suspicious that Ink is the only markdown editor not listed in your comparisons, despite being the one most similar to your project
Also suspicious that Ink is the only markdown editor not listed in your comparisons, despite being the one most similar to your project
Author here, I can add Inkdrop to the comparison table.
There are hundreds of note-taking apps out there, believe it or not when I first made the comparison table I didn't know about Inkdrop, later on I learned about it of course, it should be added to the table. Adding a new app to the table isn't exactly a fun experience as you can imagine, I guess I prioritized more doing other things.
There are hundreds of note-taking apps out there, believe it or not when I first made the comparison table I didn't know about Inkdrop, later on I learned about it of course, it should be added to the table. Adding a new app to the table isn't exactly a fun experience as you can imagine, I guess I prioritized more doing other things.
I spent a lot of time recently looking for a good note taking app. Notable (electron), QOwnNotes (Qt), and Joplin (electron) are very similar, with a markdown format with the ability to switch to the rendered view or have them split side-by-side. Joplin has an experimental combined rendered markdown editor view but it's still a bit rough around the edges.
Ultimately I settled on Zettlr. It can be used as a normal notebook, and most importantly it's killer feature to me is that it allows you to paste images from your clipboard into a note, and then view that image inline in the markdown editor instead of having to switch to the rendered view to see the image. All of the other applications show a markdown ![image-filename]() link inside the note editor, requiring you to switch to the rendered view to see the actual image. The only other applications I found which can do this are: Joplin with the experimental editor, OneNote (no linux support, proprietary format), Bear Note (Apple devices only), and a few desktop note taking applications with a non-markdown format and no mobile application. With any of the markdown ones you can sync to Syncthing, NextCloud, Dropbox, etc. and then access them on your phone with the Joplin mobile application. But Zettlr just feels better than Joplin on the desktop, has some nice themes, and the editor is more refined than Joplin's experimental one.
Given this, I don't really see any reason to use Notable over Joplin and Zettlr. QOwnNotes is also good if you really don't want electron and can live without inline images. I used all four of these for quite a while before forming this opinion.
Ultimately I settled on Zettlr. It can be used as a normal notebook, and most importantly it's killer feature to me is that it allows you to paste images from your clipboard into a note, and then view that image inline in the markdown editor instead of having to switch to the rendered view to see the image. All of the other applications show a markdown ![image-filename]() link inside the note editor, requiring you to switch to the rendered view to see the actual image. The only other applications I found which can do this are: Joplin with the experimental editor, OneNote (no linux support, proprietary format), Bear Note (Apple devices only), and a few desktop note taking applications with a non-markdown format and no mobile application. With any of the markdown ones you can sync to Syncthing, NextCloud, Dropbox, etc. and then access them on your phone with the Joplin mobile application. But Zettlr just feels better than Joplin on the desktop, has some nice themes, and the editor is more refined than Joplin's experimental one.
Given this, I don't really see any reason to use Notable over Joplin and Zettlr. QOwnNotes is also good if you really don't want electron and can live without inline images. I used all four of these for quite a while before forming this opinion.
Author here. One practical reason to switch to Notable from Joplin is that notes in Notable are just plain files on disk, and that's extremely powerful. In Joplin instead you can only open notes one by one in the default app, the difference is that Joplin essentially copies the note out of its database, opens that in the external editor, and then synchronizes its changes back with the database. In Notable the files on disk _are_ the database.
In practice this means that you should be getting better startup times with Joplin's approach, but anything that has to do with manipulating a lot of notes with an external tool is trivial in Notable, but you can't really do it with Joplin.
Plus each note in Notable contains its own metadata in the YAML frontmatter section of the note. Last time I checked Joplin just doesn't expose this at all.
I don't know enough about QOwnNotes to compare it in the same level of detail.
If you want to give Notable another spin you should probably try one of the alphas of v1.9: https://github.com/notable/notable-experimental/releases the app changed quite significantly. For one now all shortcuts are customizable like they are in VSCode, and theming too is pretty much like in VSCode, in fact I ported all themes from VSCode to Notable, they are installable via the "Theme: Install..." command in the command palette.
In practice this means that you should be getting better startup times with Joplin's approach, but anything that has to do with manipulating a lot of notes with an external tool is trivial in Notable, but you can't really do it with Joplin.
Plus each note in Notable contains its own metadata in the YAML frontmatter section of the note. Last time I checked Joplin just doesn't expose this at all.
I don't know enough about QOwnNotes to compare it in the same level of detail.
If you want to give Notable another spin you should probably try one of the alphas of v1.9: https://github.com/notable/notable-experimental/releases the app changed quite significantly. For one now all shortcuts are customizable like they are in VSCode, and theming too is pretty much like in VSCode, in fact I ported all themes from VSCode to Notable, they are installable via the "Theme: Install..." command in the command palette.
I really like the comparison chart. I wish every project had that. The first thing I think when I see a project like this and there are a ton of options is "why?". This helps with answering that.
I usually assume these projects exist because the creator looked for a solution to their problems but couldn't find one. So it's nice to have their research presented like this instead of having to try to figure it out myself.
I usually assume these projects exist because the creator looked for a solution to their problems but couldn't find one. So it's nice to have their research presented like this instead of having to try to figure it out myself.
Author here. I agree with your comment wholeheartedly.
The only issues with the comparison table are that it takes quite a bit of time to try all the features in all the apps, if you want to add a new row you are in for a wild ride downloading many note-taking apps, and the more apps you add the less the table becomes easy to read. And of course the reader may disagree with the content in the table, but it's impossible to make everybody happy about everything.
The only issues with the comparison table are that it takes quite a bit of time to try all the features in all the apps, if you want to add a new row you are in for a wild ride downloading many note-taking apps, and the more apps you add the less the table becomes easy to read. And of course the reader may disagree with the content in the table, but it's impossible to make everybody happy about everything.
Looks like a clone of Bear, which is an awesome mark-down based note app: https://bear.app/
Edit: This is nice, it's also out on linux and windows, unlike Bear which was one of the big negatives for me (day job is on Windows 10 where a note app like this is lacking). Def giving it a try.
Edit: This is nice, it's also out on linux and windows, unlike Bear which was one of the big negatives for me (day job is on Windows 10 where a note app like this is lacking). Def giving it a try.
It most likely isn't a clone. While Bear predates Notable, the timeline does not seem like Notable was a deliberate clone at all.
I don't mean to imply it was intentional but rather a good sign, Bear is awesome. Nice to have a similar app for other platforms.
I recently set up Syncthing on my laptops and my phone. I have always edited my notes in plain text in Vim and dumbly I would email these to myself (and reply to the email) on my phone so I could access my notes when afk. But now that I have Syncthing and Markor (a markdown/text editor) on my phone, I feel like I am in note-taking bliss.
Maybe someone here is interested in Noteless, an open-source Android note-taking app which aims to be compatible with Notable. https://github.com/redsolver/noteless
I've been on Quiver for quite a few years now — https://happenapps.com – and I am pretty satisfied. I can't say if it's been updated at all for most of that time. I just don't pay attention to it.
I'd probably switch if something great came along. I liked a lot of things about Bear but the pricing model drove me away.
I tried to just use iA Writer for plain markdown but the structure/search isn't usable.
A part of me just wants something simple as http://notational.net/
I'd probably switch if something great came along. I liked a lot of things about Bear but the pricing model drove me away.
I tried to just use iA Writer for plain markdown but the structure/search isn't usable.
A part of me just wants something simple as http://notational.net/
I used to be a huge fan of quiver, until one day I was writing a very useful piece of text, later, the day finished and I turned off my computer. When I turned it back on and opened Quiver, the note was gone. And it had 0 trace of it.
That time I understood that I undermined the importance of a simple note taking app. Which drives me away for the new electron based app of the month. Because they can just stop being maintained and my content is stuck there.
That time I understood that I undermined the importance of a simple note taking app. Which drives me away for the new electron based app of the month. Because they can just stop being maintained and my content is stuck there.
I was also a fan until I discovered that there is no search and replace feature.
The issue for it was opened in 2016 but the dev doesn't seem interested. Search and replace should be core functionality for any text or code based editor IMHO.
https://github.com/HappenApps/Quiver/issues/417
The issue for it was opened in 2016 but the dev doesn't seem interested. Search and replace should be core functionality for any text or code based editor IMHO.
https://github.com/HappenApps/Quiver/issues/417
There seems to be a markdown note-taking app trend... I just want to throw out there that I have been using jupyter lab as a daily journaling markdown editor for nearly a year now and am very much happy with my setup.
For me, ability to quickly expand/collapse headings/sub-headings is essential when I am working with markdown. After some effort got it working in Sublime Text.
Notable looks good, but not sure if it can be made to do this.
Notable looks good, but not sure if it can be made to do this.
I struggle with this in sublime, I would love to hear how you figured it out.
I installed the SyntaxFold package and customized the key binding. There needs to be 2 empty lines between sub/headings for folding to work.
It's not the prefect solution but good enough.
It's not the prefect solution but good enough.
This just made my day, thank you so much.
Folding is implemented in the editor in the latest alphas of v1.9 already: https://github.com/notable/notable-experimental/releases
I haven't gotten to implementing the analogous thing but for rendered notes yet.
I haven't gotten to implementing the analogous thing but for rendered notes yet.
I tried the latest alpha. It works as expected. Thanks!
Been using it myself for a few years now. Mostly at work for code snippits, scripts, or commands as it has decent syntax highlighting. Synced to dropbox. Love its minimalist UI and feature set.
Would love to simply see this as a website. Why doesn't chrome make it easier to create desktop apps with a web shell? 63MB download again :(. That's like 0.1% app, 99.9% chromium + nodejs. That's why I don't install the desktop slack app. It's not an efficient user of my computer's resources. VSCode is the only electron app I have.
Soz for the rant. Great app though. Well done.
Soz for the rant. Great app though. Well done.
I've been using notable for a few months now. Its really good for a basic note taking up but clearly theres a lot more in the pipeline that excites me :)
If you don't know about the alphas of v1.9 already you should probably give them a try: https://github.com/notable/notable-experimental/releases
Many of the interesting features you might be referring to are available there.
Many of the interesting features you might be referring to are available there.
If curious see also
2018 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18765482
2018 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18765482
@dang I'm Notable's author. I had planned to post on HN about the next update of the app in a few weeks, which I've been working on for about 6 months now, the current post has been made with a bit of an unfortunate timing by a user. Hopefully this will be to ok you and the other people moderating the site. The app changed quite significantly in almost all areas, it's essentially like another app that looks similar to the older one at this point, the post won't be "more of the same thing" if people will actually comment on the app, I'll try to push for a healthier discussion.
It's really striking that there are so many markdown-based note-taking apps out there. It seems like there's a new one on show HN every week.
Anyone have any idea why this is? I assume the ones that show up here are mostly people scratching their own itch, but are note-taking needs all that diverse?
Anyone have any idea why this is? I assume the ones that show up here are mostly people scratching their own itch, but are note-taking needs all that diverse?
I find it striking as well! At least in this case:
> I couldn't find a note-taking app that ticked all the boxes I'm interested in: notes are written and rendered in GitHub Flavored Markdown, no WYSIWYG, no proprietary formats, I can run a search & replace across all notes, notes support attachments, the app isn't bloated, the app has a pretty interface, tags are indefinitely nestable and can import Evernote notes (because that's what I was using before).
> So I built my own.
> I couldn't find a note-taking app that ticked all the boxes I'm interested in: notes are written and rendered in GitHub Flavored Markdown, no WYSIWYG, no proprietary formats, I can run a search & replace across all notes, notes support attachments, the app isn't bloated, the app has a pretty interface, tags are indefinitely nestable and can import Evernote notes (because that's what I was using before).
> So I built my own.
I use simplenote but I still feel like the added features to this are enough to convince me to switch
You should give the last alpha of v1.9 a spin, it blows v1.8.4 out of the water in many ways: https://github.com/notable/notable-experimental/releases
I just tried Notable the other day, realized how slow and jittery the app and animations were and quickly moved on. I really wish electron would die already, it’s ruining good apps imo.
Did you try v1.8.4 or one of the alphas of v1.9? (https://github.com/notable/notable-experimental/releases)
In either case can you provide some steps that would help me reproduce the slowness you experienced?
And you should blame that entirely on me, Electron doesn't really have much to do with this.
In either case can you provide some steps that would help me reproduce the slowness you experienced?
And you should blame that entirely on me, Electron doesn't really have much to do with this.
It would've been v1.8.4.
Machine is 2020 MBP 13" i7 32gb. Drag the window and you'll see white flash on the background. This complaint is pedantic for sure, just as a note. I was having issues with dragging the separators before but these don't seem to be reproducible currently, so perhaps it was specific to my machine.
Another note is that typing in Notable pushes my CPU to about 10%+ usage. It doesn't do this with Notes. Also the smoothness of typing in native Notes vs this app is quite apparently, everything seems more fluid on the native app (it seems like Notable is, at times, struggling to keep up with rendering).
Again I'll note I'm very pedantic about the native feel of apps and I very much dislike electron / non-native type apps, so take my criticisms with appropriate amounts of salt. Nice job on the app!
Machine is 2020 MBP 13" i7 32gb. Drag the window and you'll see white flash on the background. This complaint is pedantic for sure, just as a note. I was having issues with dragging the separators before but these don't seem to be reproducible currently, so perhaps it was specific to my machine.
Another note is that typing in Notable pushes my CPU to about 10%+ usage. It doesn't do this with Notes. Also the smoothness of typing in native Notes vs this app is quite apparently, everything seems more fluid on the native app (it seems like Notable is, at times, struggling to keep up with rendering).
Again I'll note I'm very pedantic about the native feel of apps and I very much dislike electron / non-native type apps, so take my criticisms with appropriate amounts of salt. Nice job on the app!
> Drag the window and you'll see white flash on the background. This complaint is pedantic for sure, just as a note. I was having issues with dragging the separators before but these don't seem to be reproducible currently, so perhaps it was specific to my machine.
I'm on a 2014 MBP and I can indeed reproduce this issue with the last version of the app, that indeed is one of the few things Electron makes harder on the developer to remove, but I think there might be ways to fix that, I'll look into it.
> Another note is that typing in Notable pushes my CPU to about 10%+ usage.
That might be harder to fix, although on my 6yo machine I can see similar numbers when writing inside Notes as well, maybe they fixed it in Catalina or Big Sur. I can't really see any difference in smoothness, are you using an external high refresh rate display perhaps?
> Again I'll note I'm very pedantic about the native feel of apps and I very much dislike electron / non-native type apps, so take my criticisms with appropriate amounts of salt. Nice job on the app!
I know how some people have almost an ideological stance on this, don't worry about it.
I'm on a 2014 MBP and I can indeed reproduce this issue with the last version of the app, that indeed is one of the few things Electron makes harder on the developer to remove, but I think there might be ways to fix that, I'll look into it.
> Another note is that typing in Notable pushes my CPU to about 10%+ usage.
That might be harder to fix, although on my 6yo machine I can see similar numbers when writing inside Notes as well, maybe they fixed it in Catalina or Big Sur. I can't really see any difference in smoothness, are you using an external high refresh rate display perhaps?
> Again I'll note I'm very pedantic about the native feel of apps and I very much dislike electron / non-native type apps, so take my criticisms with appropriate amounts of salt. Nice job on the app!
I know how some people have almost an ideological stance on this, don't worry about it.
> That might be harder to fix, although on my 6yo machine I can see similar numbers when writing inside Notes as well, maybe they fixed it in Catalina or Big Sur. I can't really see any difference in smoothness, are you using an external high refresh rate display perhaps?
Sorry for the delayed response, yes it is a 100hz external display.
Sorry for the delayed response, yes it is a 100hz external display.
QOwnNotes is the best thing to come along in this space in a long time, IMO.
https://www.qownnotes.org/
https://www.qownnotes.org/
I tried using Notable for a while. I ended up sticking with Mark Text. I enjoy the more Bear-like WYSIWYG editor I can switch to for normal note taking.
Big fan of Notable, thought I'd share it!
I use standard-notes for its focus on zero knowledge design and simple markdown plus potential economic viability.
I was wondering what's the difference between the two.
Zettlr, RemNote, Roam, Obsidian - these are some of the titles a modern note-taking app should be compared to.
Except the import from evernote feature, other features are already supported by modern editor/IDE
Well, kind of. The TL;DR is that I don't think people using Notion would be very happy if they had to switch to a general-purpose text editor like vscode.
General-purpose text editors are not focused on note-taking, so while apps like vscode are powerful enough that you can kind of hack on top of it and build your own note-taking app on it, it just doesn't make a lot of sense for vscode itself to support printing notes, or hyperlinking between them, or adding a tagging system, or searching all notes containing a particular attachment etc.
And vscode has been developed for way longer than most of these new apps, eventually the set of features provided by these note-taking apps you would want to use that vscode just doesn't provide, either at all or in an integrated-enough way, should grow considerably.
General-purpose text editors are not focused on note-taking, so while apps like vscode are powerful enough that you can kind of hack on top of it and build your own note-taking app on it, it just doesn't make a lot of sense for vscode itself to support printing notes, or hyperlinking between them, or adding a tagging system, or searching all notes containing a particular attachment etc.
And vscode has been developed for way longer than most of these new apps, eventually the set of features provided by these note-taking apps you would want to use that vscode just doesn't provide, either at all or in an integrated-enough way, should grow considerably.
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No Android app?
I really like Notable, so I made an open-source Android app which is compatible with notes saved in Notable. https://github.com/redsolver/noteless
Not yet! As notes are just Markdown files on disk some people have been editing their notes on Android with Markor: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.gsantner.m...
The comparison matrix made me close the tab immediately.
What's the problem with it? It can be changed if you have any suggestions.
I liked it.
[1] https://github.com/notable/notable/issues/432