The Rise of the $10M Disc Golf Celebrity(theringer.com)
theringer.com
The Rise of the $10M Disc Golf Celebrity
https://www.theringer.com/features/2021/6/21/22542839/disc-golf-niche-sports-million-dollar-endorsement-deals
103 comments
This is a terrific value for anyone new to disc golf. Hard to go wrong with this three disc set from Innova and it's also a great price.
https://www.dunhamssports.com/product/3-pack_disc_golf_combo...
To make it even simpler - a beginner could confidently play a course with only a mid-range disc. It's that simple. Don't get caught up looking at players who walk around with 30 disc sets in their bag. It's just simply not necessarily for a beginner.
https://www.dunhamssports.com/product/3-pack_disc_golf_combo...
To make it even simpler - a beginner could confidently play a course with only a mid-range disc. It's that simple. Don't get caught up looking at players who walk around with 30 disc sets in their bag. It's just simply not necessarily for a beginner.
>Don't get caught up looking at players who walk around with 30 disc sets in their bag
The only caveat here is that it's beneficial to have a few extra discs to replace those that you might lose along the way. I've "donated" a few discs to rivers, swamps, and the like.
The only caveat here is that it's beneficial to have a few extra discs to replace those that you might lose along the way. I've "donated" a few discs to rivers, swamps, and the like.
Yep, that starter pack looks good. Love that they include a 6 speed driver instead of a 9 speed!
Also watching this video is useful before going out: https://youtu.be/Sgn6Os4YSW0
The towel snap technique is useful to get an idea of how it should throw. I find I throw different discs for different throws (and one in particular is good for my forehand). But when I started every throw did the same thing no matter the disc. Then I worked through control shots at mid range, and only now is my driving distance increasing.
The towel snap technique is useful to get an idea of how it should throw. I find I throw different discs for different throws (and one in particular is good for my forehand). But when I started every throw did the same thing no matter the disc. Then I worked through control shots at mid range, and only now is my driving distance increasing.
As someone who has never disk golfed, but skipped rocks last week after not having done it for a decade:
Swinging is really hard on your shoulders. I spent a day surfing, hiking, running and skipping rocks. My pitching shoulder was the one that was most sore (and slightly hurt) the day after.
Just a probable warning for anyone who has shoulder issues. (probably also bad technique)
Swinging is really hard on your shoulders. I spent a day surfing, hiking, running and skipping rocks. My pitching shoulder was the one that was most sore (and slightly hurt) the day after.
Just a probable warning for anyone who has shoulder issues. (probably also bad technique)
I've found the best warm up for disc golf is to play catch with a baseball/softball. If I'm solo then I will literally throw rocks (at the course) to get the shoulder moving.
Also used sporting good stores will often have a large selection of used discs which can be an even cheaper way to get in to the game (and makes you feel less bad when you throw it in a river).
They will usually also carry some of the factory defect discs which are cheaper. And the defects are usually small or printing defects that would not be noticed when throwing.
They will usually also carry some of the factory defect discs which are cheaper. And the defects are usually small or printing defects that would not be noticed when throwing.
That's my same experience with actual golf!
When I was young, I was always better off the tee with a 3 or 5 wood, rather than the big ole' driver.
When I was young, I was always better off the tee with a 3 or 5 wood, rather than the big ole' driver.
Along the same lines I’d stick with the cheap plastic. At least for me it’s much easier to throw consistently.
Breaks in much faster (ie becomes understable) which can be a good with lower arm speeds.
The big thing with disc golf, is that you want a consistent flight with whatever you are throwing. If a disc starts to become unpredictable (often times very understable) then it usually gets rotated out, or kept in for specific use cases (big turnovers, rollers, etc).
Some advice I got which I used to build mechanics/power was to not throw any fast (high speed) driver until I could throw a putter ~250 feet consistently. The one exception to this rule is if your local course has a big dog leg (and a short hole) and you need something that really moves that direction quickly.
The big thing with disc golf, is that you want a consistent flight with whatever you are throwing. If a disc starts to become unpredictable (often times very understable) then it usually gets rotated out, or kept in for specific use cases (big turnovers, rollers, etc).
Some advice I got which I used to build mechanics/power was to not throw any fast (high speed) driver until I could throw a putter ~250 feet consistently. The one exception to this rule is if your local course has a big dog leg (and a short hole) and you need something that really moves that direction quickly.
For advanced players do the 9+ discs perform better?
People who throw really hard probably benefit from the higher speed discs, but there are also very good players that drive 9 speeds. Advanced players will carry a variety of drivers with differing speeds because they will want different flight paths depending on the given hole layout. Also, whether you are throw into a headwind or with a tailwind changes how fast the disc is flying (relative to the air).
In general, most drivers are designed to fly in a "S" shaped flight path. When you get this full flight path, you get the most distance. For a right hand player throwing backhand that means your throw should draw slightly to the right at first, straighten out, and then finish with a fade to the left.
If you throw a disc that is rated at too high a speed for you, it will just quickly fade to the left and go into the ground. You often see beginners chucking their drivers way out to the right in order to compensate for this quick turn to the left. It's just really hard to get distance when you do this because the high speed disc really wants to turn left and dive into the ground.
If you throw a disc that is rated too low a speed for you, it will draw too far to the right and will not straighten out and come back left. In this case, you should either throw a bit less hard or move up to a higher speed disc. For beginners it is better to start here because you can actually get a feel for how throwing speed changes the disc flight path.
In general, most drivers are designed to fly in a "S" shaped flight path. When you get this full flight path, you get the most distance. For a right hand player throwing backhand that means your throw should draw slightly to the right at first, straighten out, and then finish with a fade to the left.
If you throw a disc that is rated at too high a speed for you, it will just quickly fade to the left and go into the ground. You often see beginners chucking their drivers way out to the right in order to compensate for this quick turn to the left. It's just really hard to get distance when you do this because the high speed disc really wants to turn left and dive into the ground.
If you throw a disc that is rated too low a speed for you, it will draw too far to the right and will not straighten out and come back left. In this case, you should either throw a bit less hard or move up to a higher speed disc. For beginners it is better to start here because you can actually get a feel for how throwing speed changes the disc flight path.
The pros throw a lot of 12 and 13 speed discs which result in 400 - 500+ feet drives. I can only dream of accomplishing that kind of distance.
Btw, the 2021 Disc Golf World Championships just started. You can watch the first 9 holes here: https://youtu.be/b-OICF4pyK4
Btw, the 2021 Disc Golf World Championships just started. You can watch the first 9 holes here: https://youtu.be/b-OICF4pyK4
The best advice I can offer is that with whatever disc(s) you have - spend time practicing with those discs away from the course. All discs fly differently and it's best to get dedicated practice with your discs.
You usually want to throw as slow a disc as you can get away with. This allows you throw more directly at the target and they don't skip as far when they land on a hard surface (of course sometimes you want that). Another benefit of slower discs is that they tend not to kick as much to the side if they hit a tree.
Fast drivers are best in an open area where accuracy isn't the main goal. They tend to be more forgiving when the throwers form is off which is harmful for someone who's still learning how to throw.
It depends on what you mean by perform better? My faster speed disc (11+) go about 50 ft further, but I loose a lot of accuracy. I usually can hit my shots with a slower speed driver better but at the expense of greater distance.
If you have the power to throw faster speed discs they will go farther.
If you have the power to throw faster speed discs they will go farther.
doin the lord's work. I resisted for so long and my game jumped exponentially the day I played my first mid-range only round.
I want to Roc! (Roc!)
I want to Roc! (Roc!)
For anyone interested in the sport, UDisc is the “go-to” app for finding courses, viewing course maps, and tracking scores. I’m not affiliated with UDisc, but their dev team has done such a great job listening to feedback from users and actually implementing features requested by the community that I couldn’t help but give them a mention.
I also recommend UDisc. Good Apple Watch integration as well. They make it easy to track granular stats like the length of your drive or you can just use it to keep score during a friendly game. Worth the price.
For tournament directors I recommend Disc Golf Metrix. The UI isn't great but it's the most powerful tool out there.
One of the things I really appreciate about disc golf is the low barrier to entry. My local club does events where we give discs away to kids to get them started. We’ll give hundreds of putters away this year and it will cost about $1700.
For $15 we can outfit a kid with a three disc set once they’ve decided they like the sport enough to learn about the differences in discs.
The kids we give these away to are unlikely to get that money from family but a small org can raise the donations with out having to do big donor drives or the like.
For $15 we can outfit a kid with a three disc set once they’ve decided they like the sport enough to learn about the differences in discs.
The kids we give these away to are unlikely to get that money from family but a small org can raise the donations with out having to do big donor drives or the like.
Yup- no longer playing (moved to an area where there is no scene/courses), but I was a casual player for a few years. The cost inspires a lot of generosity. When I started I probably was tossed 10-20 discs over the first few months, precisely because it is such a low cost sport. Really helped get it's hooks in me and made some great friends
There is no public course in Chicago (where my club is located). Fixing that is a major long term goal of our club but we’ve had a lot of success working with the parks putting up temporary baskets.
Our club only exists because a buddy and me took a cheap basket down to the park to goof around and lots of like minded folks saw us. Now we have a pretty big Wed putting league in one park and temporary baskets we leave in others for putting & field work.
You might try just putting in a park with friends and see what happens.
Our club only exists because a buddy and me took a cheap basket down to the park to goof around and lots of like minded folks saw us. Now we have a pretty big Wed putting league in one park and temporary baskets we leave in others for putting & field work.
You might try just putting in a park with friends and see what happens.
There's tons just across the border here in Indiana! I live in Whiting and they just put up a great disc golf course in Forsythe Park here. Come out sometime and play! (And send me an email so I can join :)).
We play northern Indiana/Joliet/the suburbs a lot. Which is great for people with cars. Lots of great options.
We are trying to make the sport more accessible to kids on the south (east) side who can’t get out to anywhere else. IIT has a small course but it’s private and their security is known to hassle kids on campus who aren’t students. So having park sanctioned baskets is our focus.
https://hydeparkdiscgolf.com/
We are trying to make the sport more accessible to kids on the south (east) side who can’t get out to anywhere else. IIT has a small course but it’s private and their security is known to hassle kids on campus who aren’t students. So having park sanctioned baskets is our focus.
https://hydeparkdiscgolf.com/
I've been getting way into disc golf over the last month ever since I went down a namesake youtube rabbit hole in early May. Bought some discs and have been slugging it out at the local course. It seems less consistent than ball golf, the wind has a huge impact on a throw, which I find takes some of the pressure off. It's great fun, and the price barrier is super low. Would definitely recommend anyone to give it a shot.
A am very excited to watch the first round of the PDGA world championship tomorrow.
A am very excited to watch the first round of the PDGA world championship tomorrow.
I started playing about a year ago during the pandemic and it's been a really fun and cheap way to get outside, play a casual sport with friends or even solo.
I also highly recommend watching a tournament on JomezPro[0]. They do day-after post production of tournaments and their videos are absurdly high quality for the size and scope of their team. They really seem to take an iterative approach to their product and UX and are seemingly just an indie shop who blew away the existing competition over the years while innovating regularly. Even though they're not 'hard tech' I view them as startup-like and a blueprint for video/media companies of the future.
As mentioned in the parent comment, the PDGA world championship starts today (first video tomorrow!) and that's a great way to jump in. You can watch live, but I find the post-production far more consumable. Watching old tournaments is honestly enjoyable too. Very calming to put on in the background while working.
[0] Here's a highlight reel for some quick hits showing off both the production and great disc golf shots: https://youtu.be/DXTVIwOQG2M?t=29
I also highly recommend watching a tournament on JomezPro[0]. They do day-after post production of tournaments and their videos are absurdly high quality for the size and scope of their team. They really seem to take an iterative approach to their product and UX and are seemingly just an indie shop who blew away the existing competition over the years while innovating regularly. Even though they're not 'hard tech' I view them as startup-like and a blueprint for video/media companies of the future.
As mentioned in the parent comment, the PDGA world championship starts today (first video tomorrow!) and that's a great way to jump in. You can watch live, but I find the post-production far more consumable. Watching old tournaments is honestly enjoyable too. Very calming to put on in the background while working.
[0] Here's a highlight reel for some quick hits showing off both the production and great disc golf shots: https://youtu.be/DXTVIwOQG2M?t=29
I've been playing since 2007ish, and the highlight of my "career" was playing in a PDGA tournament in Idaho.
I got 3rd place in the amateur division (the lowest there is) and didn't stop grinning for a week!
Have fun out there, it's a great sport
Have fun out there, it's a great sport
> According to 2019 data from the athlete marketing platform Opendorse, only about 70 athletes in the world make at least a million dollars a year in endorsement deals. McBeth’s endorsement income from Discraft alone puts him on par with Bears linebacker Khalil Mack, Jazz guard Mike Conley Jr., and Astros pitcher Justin Verlander.
This doesn't pass the smell test at all. Opendorse doesn't give any transparency into how they arrived at those numbers; they could be pulled from thin air, and Opendorse are clearly ignoring some sports. For example, there are zero NHL players on the list despite Forbes listing at least 10 players who should be on that list, including several who make well over a million in endorsements.
I'd wager there are an order of magnitude more than 70 athletes with $1 million+ in endorsements.
This doesn't pass the smell test at all. Opendorse doesn't give any transparency into how they arrived at those numbers; they could be pulled from thin air, and Opendorse are clearly ignoring some sports. For example, there are zero NHL players on the list despite Forbes listing at least 10 players who should be on that list, including several who make well over a million in endorsements.
I'd wager there are an order of magnitude more than 70 athletes with $1 million+ in endorsements.
I'm also skeptical. There are no rock climbers on this list.
Climbing is still a relatively niche sport (though depending on where you are, it might be one of the most popular), but I'd wager participants collectively spend as much on climbing equipment as many more popular sports. The gear is quite expensive, and for safety reasons, much of it needs to be replaced with relative regularity. You'd be hard-pressed to find a sport where people who don't compete at any level spend $500-2000 per year on equipment (though skiing might give it a run for its money, especially when other expenses of skiing are taken into consideration)
As a result, 'professional' rock climbers (many of whom counterintuitively don't participate in competitive climbing), court a wide variety of sponsorships.
Climbing is still a relatively niche sport (though depending on where you are, it might be one of the most popular), but I'd wager participants collectively spend as much on climbing equipment as many more popular sports. The gear is quite expensive, and for safety reasons, much of it needs to be replaced with relative regularity. You'd be hard-pressed to find a sport where people who don't compete at any level spend $500-2000 per year on equipment (though skiing might give it a run for its money, especially when other expenses of skiing are taken into consideration)
As a result, 'professional' rock climbers (many of whom counterintuitively don't participate in competitive climbing), court a wide variety of sponsorships.
In skiing, only a few individuals at the very top make any real money.
Most "professional skiers" just get free gear and travel budgets to film a segment or go to competitions.
To be a professional, you either have to be a massive dirtbag, or have a trust fund; and the former has gotten much harder these days.
Same deal for professional climbers, AFIAK.
I also disagree in that climbing seems quite affordable compared to other outdoor recreation. Shoes and ropes are the biggest wearable expenses (the latter of which you can split with your partner).
You can even get a trad rack for ~500$ that will last you a decade (minus replacing a stuck piece occasionally).
Most importantly, climbing outside is free.
When I walk out of my house to go skiing, I probably have close to 7k in gear on me, all of which has to be replaced every 2-5 seasons :(
Most "professional skiers" just get free gear and travel budgets to film a segment or go to competitions.
To be a professional, you either have to be a massive dirtbag, or have a trust fund; and the former has gotten much harder these days.
Same deal for professional climbers, AFIAK.
I also disagree in that climbing seems quite affordable compared to other outdoor recreation. Shoes and ropes are the biggest wearable expenses (the latter of which you can split with your partner).
You can even get a trad rack for ~500$ that will last you a decade (minus replacing a stuck piece occasionally).
Most importantly, climbing outside is free.
When I walk out of my house to go skiing, I probably have close to 7k in gear on me, all of which has to be replaced every 2-5 seasons :(
Sponsored climbers are quite common. Climbers who would have no chance of winning a competition and are climbing nowhere near the frontier of the sport can become sponsored; it's often about building connections and a name for themselves (perhaps for being really good at one specific move, or doing some first ascents in a remote area).
I think very few climbers have made $1 million in a year from sponsorships. But if I had to guess, I'd say Alex Honnold and Lynn Hill have (and perhaps a handful of a few others). Sure, it's probably not $1mm every year, but I'd be surprised if they're not making that some years. Right now, the climbing "industry" is also going through a massive boom which has led to hundreds of new gear companies, so this might be the most lucrative time ever to be a sponsored rock climber.
And yes, it's not the most expensive sport either, I already acknowledged skiing is likely more expensive. As someone who climbs outside 30-50 times a year I personally would need to spend ~$400/year just to keep up with replacing helmets, harnesses, ropes, slings, shoes, and misc. lost/broken/damaged gear. It's more because I'm adding to my trad rack constantly, but I know lots of climbers who spend roughly this amount every year, none of whom climb competitively or professionally.
And you can get a trad rack for $500 (in the U.S.), but that would just be single cams from .3-3 with carabiners, a nut tool, and a handful of slings and nuts. And you'd still have to buy it used. Add in quickdraws, double cams, more nuts, and other gear (guidebooks, bouldering pads, totems, offsets, hexes, tricams, UFOs, aiders, big bros, portledges, pulleys, ascenders, haul bags), and as a non-professional climber, it can be very easy to spend >$1000/year.
Compare this with a soccer player who plays a couple of pickup games every week. Even if soccer is a much more popular sport for people to play/watch, it's easy to imagine how the same amount of money could be spent on climbing gear collectively.
I think very few climbers have made $1 million in a year from sponsorships. But if I had to guess, I'd say Alex Honnold and Lynn Hill have (and perhaps a handful of a few others). Sure, it's probably not $1mm every year, but I'd be surprised if they're not making that some years. Right now, the climbing "industry" is also going through a massive boom which has led to hundreds of new gear companies, so this might be the most lucrative time ever to be a sponsored rock climber.
And yes, it's not the most expensive sport either, I already acknowledged skiing is likely more expensive. As someone who climbs outside 30-50 times a year I personally would need to spend ~$400/year just to keep up with replacing helmets, harnesses, ropes, slings, shoes, and misc. lost/broken/damaged gear. It's more because I'm adding to my trad rack constantly, but I know lots of climbers who spend roughly this amount every year, none of whom climb competitively or professionally.
And you can get a trad rack for $500 (in the U.S.), but that would just be single cams from .3-3 with carabiners, a nut tool, and a handful of slings and nuts. And you'd still have to buy it used. Add in quickdraws, double cams, more nuts, and other gear (guidebooks, bouldering pads, totems, offsets, hexes, tricams, UFOs, aiders, big bros, portledges, pulleys, ascenders, haul bags), and as a non-professional climber, it can be very easy to spend >$1000/year.
Compare this with a soccer player who plays a couple of pickup games every week. Even if soccer is a much more popular sport for people to play/watch, it's easy to imagine how the same amount of money could be spent on climbing gear collectively.
It still sounds like you’re stretching a bit to make the sport sound expensive. Sure, a trad rack might set you back a couple thousand dollars, but nobody buys the whole thing at once.
You’ll build your rack slowly over a dozen years, maybe tricking in a new cam or two and the odd nut to replace stuff you’ve lost. But nobody ever retires cams, and no dirtbag climber has ever decided to spontaneously replace his entire trad rack.
Similarly, as a sport climber, I get a new rope every six or eight years if I’m trashing it, and a new rack of draws every fifteen. It’s not a regular occurrence.
I moved to Fontainebleau specifically for bouldering and am on the rocks 3 days a week. I go through 2 pairs of shoes a year and add a pad to the collection every few years. If I spend $500 on the sport in a year, that’s a big year.
Compare that to something like surfing, where I’ll spend more than that on baggage fees for one trip, and it just rounds to zero on the scale of expensive sports.
You’ll build your rack slowly over a dozen years, maybe tricking in a new cam or two and the odd nut to replace stuff you’ve lost. But nobody ever retires cams, and no dirtbag climber has ever decided to spontaneously replace his entire trad rack.
Similarly, as a sport climber, I get a new rope every six or eight years if I’m trashing it, and a new rack of draws every fifteen. It’s not a regular occurrence.
I moved to Fontainebleau specifically for bouldering and am on the rocks 3 days a week. I go through 2 pairs of shoes a year and add a pad to the collection every few years. If I spend $500 on the sport in a year, that’s a big year.
Compare that to something like surfing, where I’ll spend more than that on baggage fees for one trip, and it just rounds to zero on the scale of expensive sports.
It certainly can be done much cheaper, and bouldering alone is about as cheap as it gets. I live near Squamish and it's known for multi pitch climbing. People who just climb sport spend ~$400/year replacing gear. It's probably not the same everywhere, but lots of long climbs and rappels will wear at your rope. Even faster if you're taking falls on it. I know people who have only ever bought one rope, but they don't climb very much.
Personally I've been climbing outdoors for almost 3 years now and have had to buy a rope every year (2 ropes one year actually). I realize I'm not 'typical' of a climber, but I've probably spent $9000 USD total on equipment in the time frame. Mostly new equipment, but also mostly on sale 20-30% off retail price. But even the 'dirtbags' I know may save money by not paying rent, hitchhiking, living in vans, or camping, and still can spend $400-600 a year on climbing equipment
Personally I've been climbing outdoors for almost 3 years now and have had to buy a rope every year (2 ropes one year actually). I realize I'm not 'typical' of a climber, but I've probably spent $9000 USD total on equipment in the time frame. Mostly new equipment, but also mostly on sale 20-30% off retail price. But even the 'dirtbags' I know may save money by not paying rent, hitchhiking, living in vans, or camping, and still can spend $400-600 a year on climbing equipment
I agree with you on the the accessibility of climbing, but "moving to Fontainebleau" doesn't sound cheap! b^)
Had to be done though.
To be honest it’s pretty cheap living here. The little village were in isn’t on the train line to Paris, and it’s not a fashionable spot for parisien weekend houses. It’s just a farm village, with real estate priced accordingly. There’s no way you’d be able to buy so much as a tear down within 50 miles of a west coast city for the price of this house. And it wasn’t anywhere near the bottom end of the market.
You should probably come out for a season to see for yourself.
To be honest it’s pretty cheap living here. The little village were in isn’t on the train line to Paris, and it’s not a fashionable spot for parisien weekend houses. It’s just a farm village, with real estate priced accordingly. There’s no way you’d be able to buy so much as a tear down within 50 miles of a west coast city for the price of this house. And it wasn’t anywhere near the bottom end of the market.
You should probably come out for a season to see for yourself.
For sure, but trad/big wall climbers are the 1-5%. A lot of people who climb probably don't even own a rope. Of those that do, the vast majority just sport climb.
I climb ~50 days a year and I've got 5 year old draws that I'd still whip on.
I don't think soccer and climbing are even in the same ballpark when it comes to market size. I hope they never are because outdoor areas literally couldn't survive that level of popularity.
PS: Join the AAC if your aren't already. Gives you access to a bunch of discounts, including BD. Cams are in stock and 35% off rn.
I climb ~50 days a year and I've got 5 year old draws that I'd still whip on.
I don't think soccer and climbing are even in the same ballpark when it comes to market size. I hope they never are because outdoor areas literally couldn't survive that level of popularity.
PS: Join the AAC if your aren't already. Gives you access to a bunch of discounts, including BD. Cams are in stock and 35% off rn.
Where I live, at least 25% of lead climbers do at least some trad climbing (there's just so much of it in Squamish and you'd be missing out on most of the multi pitch if you're just doing sport).
But for argument's sake, let's say 5%. That's still 5% of climbers who are likely to spend more in a year on equipment than 99% of people who play soccer ever will. That's why I'm saying it's a sizable industry when you look at what people are spending.
But for argument's sake, let's say 5%. That's still 5% of climbers who are likely to spend more in a year on equipment than 99% of people who play soccer ever will. That's why I'm saying it's a sizable industry when you look at what people are spending.
Ya but Squamish is world class and has tons of beginner friendly single pitch, so I'd expect that.
I think your overestimating the profit margins on climbing gear (very thin) and underestimating the popularity of soccer (think every school has 20 kids buying expensive cleats that are mass produced).
I think your overestimating the profit margins on climbing gear (very thin) and underestimating the popularity of soccer (think every school has 20 kids buying expensive cleats that are mass produced).
This year will be a big pivot moment for the sport. Next month, 100s of millions of people are going to watch Olympic climbing. The speed climbing will definitely be front page news all around the world, just because people have never seen anything like it. Everyone's going to want to get down their local climbing gym and give climbing a go. But, you're correct - very few will end up outdoors. I hope that those that do are safe!
It's a little sad how being 'American' is such a huge plus when it comes to sponsorships.
Janja Garnbret has been the unquestioned top female climber since she started being a pro climber, but an American or British climber will always get more media coverage.
Janja Garnbret has been the unquestioned top female climber since she started being a pro climber, but an American or British climber will always get more media coverage.
What is a "dirtbag" in this context?
A "dirtbag" in climbing/skiing circles is someone who lives in a beat up van, has very little money and spends all their time and (meager) money driving for spot to spot, devoting their entire life to climbing/skiing.
You’re mistaken.
My wife was a sponsored rock climber when we met, and we know quite a few top level climbers (including a couple that non climbers might actually have heard of). Sponsorship keeps many of them going, but not at the level you’re thinking of.
Think “can afford to do a euro trip staying at Airbnb’s”. Which is cool, but you probably make more than any of them with your developer gig.
My wife was a sponsored rock climber when we met, and we know quite a few top level climbers (including a couple that non climbers might actually have heard of). Sponsorship keeps many of them going, but not at the level you’re thinking of.
Think “can afford to do a euro trip staying at Airbnb’s”. Which is cool, but you probably make more than any of them with your developer gig.
I'm certainly not arguing that many climbers are making $1 million/year from sponsorships, but I do think some are, or occasionally do anyway.
One of the interesting things about climbing though, is that this is often all the compensation climbers get. There aren't climbing leagues/teams that pay climbers a salary comparable to other sports (I suspect some competition climbers get paid a salary or stipend, but I doubt it's as much as a professional football/basketball player). But there is so much money to be made from selling climbing equipment, the manufacturers are heavily incentivized to get their names out. And the superstar climbers like Honnold will get sponsorships from other companies as well (Red Bull, Clif Bar, etc.)
One of the interesting things about climbing though, is that this is often all the compensation climbers get. There aren't climbing leagues/teams that pay climbers a salary comparable to other sports (I suspect some competition climbers get paid a salary or stipend, but I doubt it's as much as a professional football/basketball player). But there is so much money to be made from selling climbing equipment, the manufacturers are heavily incentivized to get their names out. And the superstar climbers like Honnold will get sponsorships from other companies as well (Red Bull, Clif Bar, etc.)
I guess what I’m trying to say is that we actually know the guys (and girls) who would be making those millions if anybody was. And they’re not.
One day hopefully.
One day hopefully.
I think the intended list of 'who would be making those millions' is limited to maybe 5 people (eg: Alex Honnold or Adam Ondra), not the hundreds who call themselves 'pro climbers' (ranging from the top echelon of rock and competition climbers to dirtbags getting a discount on shoes).
Might've changed since then, but Honnold is at a school appearance in Free Solo and a kid cheekily asks him if he's rich. He describes his financial situation as something like "a moderately successful orthodontist" which I wouldn't have thought would mean $1m in annual endorsements.
Honnold is one of the most humble dudes in the world (even about climbing, which he's very good at). I saw that clip too. I think he's made over $1mm/year since Free Solo came out, possibly just in endorsements/sponsorship. But he probably gives a lot of it away also, via his Foundation or other charities.
Yeah, the article seems to reference this post:
https://opendorse.com/blog/top-100-highest-paid-athlete-endo...
Yet, this article from Sports Illustrated claims Derrick Rose and John Wall have multi-million dollar endorsement deals with Adidas that would have been active in 2019.
https://www.si.com/nba/2018/02/06/derrick-rose-adidas-sneake...
This article from Forbes claims footballers like Sergio Ramos and Luis Suárez earned more than $1 million through endorsements in 2019.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/christinasettimi/2019/06/18/the...
It might not be an order of magnitude, but there are certainly many more professional athletes who earned more than $1 million in endorsements in 2019.
https://opendorse.com/blog/top-100-highest-paid-athlete-endo...
Yet, this article from Sports Illustrated claims Derrick Rose and John Wall have multi-million dollar endorsement deals with Adidas that would have been active in 2019.
https://www.si.com/nba/2018/02/06/derrick-rose-adidas-sneake...
This article from Forbes claims footballers like Sergio Ramos and Luis Suárez earned more than $1 million through endorsements in 2019.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/christinasettimi/2019/06/18/the...
It might not be an order of magnitude, but there are certainly many more professional athletes who earned more than $1 million in endorsements in 2019.
On second thought, judging by the endorsement deals of these tennis players in 2019, maybe it is an order of magnitude greater:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2019/08/26/high...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2019/08/26/high...
It would be mind blowing if Crosby isn’t making at least a million from those crappy Tim Hortons commercials.
I’m thinking they cherry-picked some names that aren’t worried about endorsement deals.
It’s a silly comparison. Mike Conley Jr. makes about $30m/year salary. He may not be that interested in endorsements.
It’s a silly comparison. Mike Conley Jr. makes about $30m/year salary. He may not be that interested in endorsements.
d
Those aren't endorsement deals, though. That's their salary.
Endorsement deals are a whole different ballgame than salary
Huge disc golf fan, collector, and player here. Check out the disc golf world championships this week, with lead-card official post-round coverage by JomezPro on YouTube. Paul McBeth will be playing for a chance at a potential sixth world champion title. It's a fantastic time of growth for the sport for professionals and casual players alike.
Jomez is an astonishingly well-done production for what I used to think was a niche sport. It was wholly responsible for getting me into watching it regularly. It's really easy to avoid spoilers about Disc Golf and so watching it non-live is nicer than more popular sports. So as a bonus you get to see a well-edited format (where the commentary is still unscripted as they watch the edited footage).
Im a sports fan and don’t play disc golf but I watch Jomez religiously. Just like tuning in for NBA on TNT.
This sport is my downtime activity, again, after about an 8 year break when I hurt my back a bit (not by playing the sport mind you - just being out of shape).
I can't say enough how much I love playing it. There's just something about flinging a disc a hundreds of feet around obstacles, walking around with your friends chatting about whatever that's a nice break from basically everything that's not disc golf.
It's had a serious effect on my overall happiness.
I can't say enough how much I love playing it. There's just something about flinging a disc a hundreds of feet around obstacles, walking around with your friends chatting about whatever that's a nice break from basically everything that's not disc golf.
It's had a serious effect on my overall happiness.
Just to add (and to maybe repeat what a few have said), those who may want to start playing who never have.
Although ball golf and disc golf share some of the same rules and name, don't get caught up in the trap that you need to have a bunch of discs to play. Unlike ball golf, you dont need a bunch of different discs for different distances. There are many times when you want to throw a high speed driver 100 feet, and even more times when you want to throw a putter off the tee.
One could get away with a starter pack for a good while, will come with fairly light weight fairway driver, midrange and putter. If you play much you will quickly get a feeling of what might be missing from that and start filling in the gaps.
You will often see people carrying around 20+ discs (I would fall into this category myself) but really if you were to look at my bag and watch me play much you'd see I probably throw the same 4-5 discs the vast majority of the time.
What usually ends up happening is you want to have a duplicate or 2 of the main discs, and maybe extra putters for practicing (or more so, throwing putters vs putting putters) and then will also have some more niche discs such as a roller disc (very understable) or super overstable discs (playing in headwind, or short approach you want a skip and to move left (right hand backhand) right (right hand sidearm) quickly.
But most of these things will be course dependent, and also not really mechanically useful until you have played quite a bit.
Although ball golf and disc golf share some of the same rules and name, don't get caught up in the trap that you need to have a bunch of discs to play. Unlike ball golf, you dont need a bunch of different discs for different distances. There are many times when you want to throw a high speed driver 100 feet, and even more times when you want to throw a putter off the tee.
One could get away with a starter pack for a good while, will come with fairly light weight fairway driver, midrange and putter. If you play much you will quickly get a feeling of what might be missing from that and start filling in the gaps.
You will often see people carrying around 20+ discs (I would fall into this category myself) but really if you were to look at my bag and watch me play much you'd see I probably throw the same 4-5 discs the vast majority of the time.
What usually ends up happening is you want to have a duplicate or 2 of the main discs, and maybe extra putters for practicing (or more so, throwing putters vs putting putters) and then will also have some more niche discs such as a roller disc (very understable) or super overstable discs (playing in headwind, or short approach you want a skip and to move left (right hand backhand) right (right hand sidearm) quickly.
But most of these things will be course dependent, and also not really mechanically useful until you have played quite a bit.
Ah, I love disc golf! I'm a Patreon supporter of JomezPro, and like everyone else here is saying, they just have shockingly good day-after production value coverage of tournaments, free on YouTube. Check it out! Always fun to watch, but as some folks say, rooting for Paul McBeth is like going to a casino and rooting for the house.
I'm also a fan of esports, having got into Rocket League a couple years ago. It's quite interesting the difference. There are professional players there, but I've never quite understood how esports works - it feels like a VC funded Ponzi scheme that will implode some day. Like, how are all these Rocket League players getting paid?
The difference, I think, with disc golf is that to play, you actually need to buy some physical things (discs), and those will eventually get beat up from hitting trees and concrete, or you'll lose them, so there's constantly people out there spending a bit of money. (Not a ton, mind you, and that's part of what I love about the sport; the vast majority of courses are free! Just a walk in a park, basically.) And so these disc manufacturers can afford to sponsor some pros and so on.
I imagine the Paul McBeth deal is so big in part to be splashy and bring attention to the sport, but it's not so outlandish to me like with esports.
I'm also a fan of esports, having got into Rocket League a couple years ago. It's quite interesting the difference. There are professional players there, but I've never quite understood how esports works - it feels like a VC funded Ponzi scheme that will implode some day. Like, how are all these Rocket League players getting paid?
The difference, I think, with disc golf is that to play, you actually need to buy some physical things (discs), and those will eventually get beat up from hitting trees and concrete, or you'll lose them, so there's constantly people out there spending a bit of money. (Not a ton, mind you, and that's part of what I love about the sport; the vast majority of courses are free! Just a walk in a park, basically.) And so these disc manufacturers can afford to sponsor some pros and so on.
I imagine the Paul McBeth deal is so big in part to be splashy and bring attention to the sport, but it's not so outlandish to me like with esports.
There's only so much room for a star in a niche sport. Cael Sanderson is one of the all time greatest collegiate athletes. He got a shoe deal.
None of the wrestlers he beat got a shoe deal, because wrestling isn't that big a market, and who wants to wear the loser's shoe?
A lot of good wrestlers lost to Cael. A guy named Daniel Cormier is one of them. Cormier went on to win championships at two different weightclasses in the UFC. But he never got a shoe deal.
None of the wrestlers he beat got a shoe deal, because wrestling isn't that big a market, and who wants to wear the loser's shoe?
A lot of good wrestlers lost to Cael. A guy named Daniel Cormier is one of them. Cormier went on to win championships at two different weightclasses in the UFC. But he never got a shoe deal.
Disc golf has a far far bigger reach than you prob realize. The biggest difference between discgolf and ballgolf is its accessibility. Almost every town has a free to play course, and you can be fully equipped to play for 40 bucks. After a couple months of playing or a trip to play-it-again, you can be as well equipped as some professionals.
The biggest difference between discgolf and other sports is that the popularity structure is inverted. Discgolf is popular as a played sport. Most other sports are popular as a watched sport. Not many people aren't taking off early on Friday to go to compete in beer league wrestling. Good luck on your local course Friday at 3pm.
It will be interesting to see if this has any effect on its watched popularity cure.
The biggest difference between discgolf and other sports is that the popularity structure is inverted. Discgolf is popular as a played sport. Most other sports are popular as a watched sport. Not many people aren't taking off early on Friday to go to compete in beer league wrestling. Good luck on your local course Friday at 3pm.
It will be interesting to see if this has any effect on its watched popularity cure.
> Almost every town has a free to play course
Possibly in the US - over here in the UK, https://discgolfuk.uk/where-to-play/ reports 64 (some are "coming soon") of which 45 are "pay to play".
Possibly in the US - over here in the UK, https://discgolfuk.uk/where-to-play/ reports 64 (some are "coming soon") of which 45 are "pay to play".
I mean, even 15 years ago the majority of US courses were 'guerrilla' courses. Basically, metal poles arranged in a forest or some other piece of marginal land and likely illegal or questionable in regards to its installation. People would just set out some 'tone' poles out in the woods or where ever and make up some other spots as 't-pads'. Eventually some one brings out some carpet and a 't-pad' becomes more legit. Eventually a community group forms around clearing the brush and debris from the course. Maybe they team up with the local parks and rec division and get some help. A few years later the disc golf course is a prime asset to the community and it becomes official.
Redwood Curtain, Peregrine Point, hell even world famous DeLaveaga all started out this way. A close friend of mine used to say "If a course didn't start out as a garbage dump, its probably not worth playing"
Redwood Curtain, Peregrine Point, hell even world famous DeLaveaga all started out this way. A close friend of mine used to say "If a course didn't start out as a garbage dump, its probably not worth playing"
In Norway I've seen the municipality put up courses on the outskirts of various parks, fields etc. So pretty accessible.
compared to ball golf where how many are free?
I'd expect none because they require a lot of upkeep and someone has to pay for that. There are, however, a whole bunch of public courses which have cheap green fees without membership for people who just want to rock up and play.
he's really going to open the door for what I like to call alternative sports getting big deals. You can make money doing anything if you're good enough and he definitely fits the bill
> You can make money doing anything if you're good enough
The thesis of the article seems to be that this isn’t enough. It’s the marketing and social media aspect that makes the money possible.
McBeth might not be the disc golf GOAT, but he’s close and he’s in the right place at the right time and is learning to market himself. His lifetime on the course earnings (again, from the article) are less than 5% of one year of his current endorsement deals.
The thesis of the article seems to be that this isn’t enough. It’s the marketing and social media aspect that makes the money possible.
McBeth might not be the disc golf GOAT, but he’s close and he’s in the right place at the right time and is learning to market himself. His lifetime on the course earnings (again, from the article) are less than 5% of one year of his current endorsement deals.
It does make me wonder when that will flip though. "Ball" golf (as disc golfers like to say) seems to be at a point where you can make a serious living without much to do on the social media side. Companies dump so much money into the purse because there are enough eyes on the game, and I think disc golf can get to that point.
But then again, maybe disc golf is coming of age in a different era, where social media will just be ingrained moving forward, and it will continue to be just as important, if not more, than your performance on the course.
But then again, maybe disc golf is coming of age in a different era, where social media will just be ingrained moving forward, and it will continue to be just as important, if not more, than your performance on the course.
There's definitely been a move towards social media promoters making sports, versus yesteryear's slower moving partnerships of manufacturers, league bodies, and sponsors. "Esports", though it has various early history, has fallen into being predominantly a construct of this kind of hustle; if you can get some bodies in the same in-game space and on a live feed, you can come up with a way to build events out of it, offer prizes and all the rest. Thus even some relatively obscure stuff like speedruns of modded NES games will boast a small scene.
I think of it not as one type of thing overtaking the other, so much as it is something like an unbundling of the traditional sportsfan experience. The individual athletes will have one set of content, the leagues will have another, and you can participate in either with fewer commitments. Sponsors get a smaller but more focused niche market to tap into.
I think of it not as one type of thing overtaking the other, so much as it is something like an unbundling of the traditional sportsfan experience. The individual athletes will have one set of content, the leagues will have another, and you can participate in either with fewer commitments. Sponsors get a smaller but more focused niche market to tap into.
> Companies dump so much money into the [golf] purse because there are enough eyes on the game, and I think disc golf can get to that point.
Maybe, but traditional golf also has the image, historically, of being a sport for the wealthy. I think this becomes sort of self-perpetuating, since it automatically attracts new wealthy people to the sport.
I think the spending power within the group of people that practices the game also affects the size of the total purse.
Maybe, but traditional golf also has the image, historically, of being a sport for the wealthy. I think this becomes sort of self-perpetuating, since it automatically attracts new wealthy people to the sport.
I think the spending power within the group of people that practices the game also affects the size of the total purse.
Ball golf has massive tv contracts and a wealthy (but shrinking and aging) fan base who doesn’t live on social media. That’s a big part of why the sponsors contribution to the purses is so big. Guaranteed TV time for the brand in front of the right people who will be watching.
I instantly recognized the name of Paul McBeth from a recent Youtube binge. The algorithm had suggested out of the blue that I watch some disc golf tournament, and I got sucked into it for a little while. Most of the videos had comments under them from people like me, who had never come in contact with the sport before, but were now there, thanks to the mighty algorithm.
What made it send us to the disc golf videos - my interest in Formula 1, combined with watching some esports? Or was it just a random suggestion, because the disc golf videos have a high like count and watch-through-score, because they are really well produced?
What made it send us to the disc golf videos - my interest in Formula 1, combined with watching some esports? Or was it just a random suggestion, because the disc golf videos have a high like count and watch-through-score, because they are really well produced?
Ah, that's nothing. Follow the suggestions, and eventually you'll end up with Jelle's Marble Runs.
And the Lockpicking Lawyer
I've watched some Disc Golf by happenstance recently on a sports channel and later on YouTube, and while it is a niche sport, it's tremendously entertaining.
You see four guys throw the disc in the same way, and a fifth one throw it some other way. With the second, third etc throws you get the flight paths of the earlier throws superimposed on the picture, so you can immediately compare those flight paths. You get instant distant measurements, and course overviews (like a mini map).
All this hooked me instantly.
I have no idea if "proper" golf has stuff like that, but if not, they should.
You see four guys throw the disc in the same way, and a fifth one throw it some other way. With the second, third etc throws you get the flight paths of the earlier throws superimposed on the picture, so you can immediately compare those flight paths. You get instant distant measurements, and course overviews (like a mini map).
All this hooked me instantly.
I have no idea if "proper" golf has stuff like that, but if not, they should.
The Color of Money (1986):
Eddie Felson: "If you got an area of excellence... you're the best at something, anything... then rich can be arranged. Rich can come fairly easy."
If you're one of the best at something, at that point you just need a lever, a platform of consequence to hitch up to and ride. Whether that's being the best toy reviewer on YouTube, or the best podcaster on a giant streaming service, or the best writer on Substack, or the best disc golfer.
Eddie Felson: "If you got an area of excellence... you're the best at something, anything... then rich can be arranged. Rich can come fairly easy."
If you're one of the best at something, at that point you just need a lever, a platform of consequence to hitch up to and ride. Whether that's being the best toy reviewer on YouTube, or the best podcaster on a giant streaming service, or the best writer on Substack, or the best disc golfer.
no.. business patterns generate money.. The vast majority of human activity across thousands of years do not fit those criteria. This short list of possible "best at" things are highly social, use communication media, and have money involved already..
Disc Golf is a great sport for all ages. It has effectively no barrier to entry and is good exercise to boot - it's more or less hiking with a game sprinkled in. Here's hoping it continues to amass what seems to be growing popularity.
I started playing during the pandemic and now I'm hooked. It's more fun than playing real golf, and I used to do a lot of that.
Lots cheaper, too. :)
Depends how many discs you lose, including the ones you threw in a tree to knock another one loose XD
I glued a small buzzer, battery and switch to my disc in the beginning to help track it down.
The Doppler effect was pretty sweet when you let it fly :)
The Doppler effect was pretty sweet when you let it fly :)
I've often thought about how one could rig up such a thing with either lights or sound, but without sacrificing the pretty carefully designed aerodynamic profile of the discs. Not sure how it'd be possible without molding it into the disc itself... :)
I'd recommend looking for "glow golf" near you. It's disc golf, but at night. Interesting solutions from glow in the dark tape, to the buzzers, and a pretty unique experience
If you aren't losing discs, you aren't playing enough.
Disc golf tourism great as well. Very easy to throw a putter a middie and a drive in a suitcase and try a new course in a new town.
Sorry if it's a very stupid question, but why don't they add some bumps in the border of the disk so it does not roll on the floor? Does that destroy the aerodynamic properties?
"Rolling on the floor" is an important part of the game. Depending on disc selection, the type and slope of terrain, and angle that the disc makes contact, the amount and direction (forehand vs backhand) of spin, etc it can "spike" into the ground, it can lightly touch and stop immediately, it can roll 20 feet to the left or to the right, it can "skip" and fly another 100 feet, it can roll for another 300 feet, etc. The best players can control this behavior and use it to shape their shots around trees, hills, hazards, rough grass, etc.
Discs with thick, round rims (generally "putters") already stop pretty short when they land. It's the distance drivers with sharp edges that can roll a long way, but those are very aerodynamically designed and bumps would probably mess that up.
Plus, there's regulations about the size and weight of discs, so it might not be allowed on PDGA tour anyway.
Discs with thick, round rims (generally "putters") already stop pretty short when they land. It's the distance drivers with sharp edges that can roll a long way, but those are very aerodynamically designed and bumps would probably mess that up.
Plus, there's regulations about the size and weight of discs, so it might not be allowed on PDGA tour anyway.
There are regulations governing the size and shape of the discs, so that type of modification would likely be illegal. But also, it would probably destroy the aerodynamics
https://infinitediscs.com/Quest-AT-Turbo-Putt
> It was originally approved in 2007, but had its approval rescinded the next year because it was argued that the disc did not have "radial symetry.
> It was originally approved in 2007, but had its approval rescinded the next year because it was argued that the disc did not have "radial symetry.
Technically, Olympic sports are niche sports as well - the only difference is they have a giant collaboration every four years. There's nothing to say that disc golf won't be part of the olympics or bowling (addressed in the article as well)
I've never tried disc golf but always wanted to. It's looks like a fun relaxing sport to play with anyhow.
I can't recommend it enough. It's fun even when you're not good at it if you simply adopt the mindset that nothing is more important than getting outside and moving your body a bit.
Also, I hate to generalize, but I've found that course regulars are extremely consistent about being welcoming and patient with newbies. The culture of letting people play through, giving people space to learn, and helping folks navigate tricky course layouts has been remarkably consistent.
My absolute favorite experience was playing in the San Juan islands. The locals were so excited to see us checking out their course... so much that their smiles and waving is still the thing I remember most about that entire trip.
Also, I hate to generalize, but I've found that course regulars are extremely consistent about being welcoming and patient with newbies. The culture of letting people play through, giving people space to learn, and helping folks navigate tricky course layouts has been remarkably consistent.
My absolute favorite experience was playing in the San Juan islands. The locals were so excited to see us checking out their course... so much that their smiles and waving is still the thing I remember most about that entire trip.
goldenchrome(2)
The speed rating on discs can be tricky for beginners. It's intuitive to think that a high speed rating on a disc means it will fly faster and further. However, a high speed rating actually means you need to throw that disc faster in order for it to fly it's proper flight path. If you do not throw a high speed driver hard enough, it will just go 100 feet and curve into the ground. Beginners and intermediates typically will throw lower speed discs farther than they would throw the high speed driver.