The Death of the Festival(charleseisenstein.org)
charleseisenstein.org
The Death of the Festival
https://charleseisenstein.org/essays/girard-series-part-1-the-death-of-the-festival/
80 comments
When I returned from my first burn I described it to friends as a carnival where everyone brings their own ride, and bonus points if its something ridiculous you imagined when you were a kid at your first carnival (a fire-breathing octopus for example)
It's a little bit too pat in its conclusions.
When watching livestreams of riots, it's really evident that the chaos they produce is rather like little bursts of action, and not so much a sustained pandemonium. These bursts are a thing that can actually take place anytime and don't gain special value because of the riot, they are just more common, more easily prompted. Everyone gets behind on their narrative of events in the process; though the observers'll say something is happening according to their beliefs, it's not literally the thing that is happening.
And that isn't so far removed from just an ordinary "wild party" that hurts people or gets stuff smashed. It's riotous specifically because of the context and political impact. There aren't "sides" in a party, unless there's a gang fight or something of that nature. But a riot always expresses some politics.
When watching livestreams of riots, it's really evident that the chaos they produce is rather like little bursts of action, and not so much a sustained pandemonium. These bursts are a thing that can actually take place anytime and don't gain special value because of the riot, they are just more common, more easily prompted. Everyone gets behind on their narrative of events in the process; though the observers'll say something is happening according to their beliefs, it's not literally the thing that is happening.
And that isn't so far removed from just an ordinary "wild party" that hurts people or gets stuff smashed. It's riotous specifically because of the context and political impact. There aren't "sides" in a party, unless there's a gang fight or something of that nature. But a riot always expresses some politics.
> But a riot always expresses some politics.
Counterpoint: The 2018 philly superbowl riot
https://www.syracuse.com/us-news/2018/02/philly_riots_eagles...
Counterpoint: The 2018 philly superbowl riot
https://www.syracuse.com/us-news/2018/02/philly_riots_eagles...
>Every human being knows, if only unconsciously, that we are not the roles and personae we occupy in the cultural drama of life.
Reminds me of Catcher in the Rye, only older and more cynical.
The author should reconsider "connection to a reality that is non-conventional": the physical activity he lists is only non-conventional to a select few, especially in the past. His evidence feels like an argument for festivals as a ward against idleness, not as a relief valve of simulated violence, which is poorly-justified.
Perhaps Girard put too much faith in what "genuine artists" sense out of something like a harvest festival, which is the leisure of hard-working laborers. The author might consider that daily labor could be more violent than playful festivals, and what Girard sensed may have been relief from that, not from a crisis averted.
Reminds me of Catcher in the Rye, only older and more cynical.
The author should reconsider "connection to a reality that is non-conventional": the physical activity he lists is only non-conventional to a select few, especially in the past. His evidence feels like an argument for festivals as a ward against idleness, not as a relief valve of simulated violence, which is poorly-justified.
Perhaps Girard put too much faith in what "genuine artists" sense out of something like a harvest festival, which is the leisure of hard-working laborers. The author might consider that daily labor could be more violent than playful festivals, and what Girard sensed may have been relief from that, not from a crisis averted.
As a fairly seasoned burner, I really had to shake my head at this article.
I found it really odd that the only mention of Burning Man is how the online version attempts last year didn't work so well. No mention of how Burning Man fits into this "death spiral" idea - or how Burning Man fails to fall into that spiral.
In particular, it makes this one comment stood out...
> A true festival is not a tame affair. It is a suspension of normal rules, mores, structures, and social distinctions. Girard explains:
OK yes, that sounds like Burning Man. But then it follows up with this part of Girard's explanation...
> As one might expect, this destruction of differences is often accompanied by violence and strife. Subordinates hurl insults at their superiors; various social factions exchange gibes and abuse. Disputes rage in the midst of disorder.
Violence and strife? Raging disputes? Hurled insults? (OK well there are those megaphone people.) Seriously, the author has never been to Burning Man. Or if they did go, it was a hugely different experience than what I and a lot of other people ever had.
Maybe Burning Man just isn't a festival. Or maybe burners just festival differently. Or maybe the author is talking about something else.
I found it really odd that the only mention of Burning Man is how the online version attempts last year didn't work so well. No mention of how Burning Man fits into this "death spiral" idea - or how Burning Man fails to fall into that spiral.
In particular, it makes this one comment stood out...
> A true festival is not a tame affair. It is a suspension of normal rules, mores, structures, and social distinctions. Girard explains:
OK yes, that sounds like Burning Man. But then it follows up with this part of Girard's explanation...
> As one might expect, this destruction of differences is often accompanied by violence and strife. Subordinates hurl insults at their superiors; various social factions exchange gibes and abuse. Disputes rage in the midst of disorder.
Violence and strife? Raging disputes? Hurled insults? (OK well there are those megaphone people.) Seriously, the author has never been to Burning Man. Or if they did go, it was a hugely different experience than what I and a lot of other people ever had.
Maybe Burning Man just isn't a festival. Or maybe burners just festival differently. Or maybe the author is talking about something else.
There's a lot missing in the article.
In particular, self-expression (IMO) has advanced a little bit. Hurling insults doesn't really mean much anymore, you can do it on any forum. But creating your art... that means something. Something that can't be said with words.
It's really amazing how different peoples experiences can be though. Even going to the big burn, many never reach that "escape velocity."
In particular, self-expression (IMO) has advanced a little bit. Hurling insults doesn't really mean much anymore, you can do it on any forum. But creating your art... that means something. Something that can't be said with words.
It's really amazing how different peoples experiences can be though. Even going to the big burn, many never reach that "escape velocity."
> Even going to the big burn, many never reach that "escape velocity."
Very true.
And you bring up an interesting point in terms of creating your own art. There are festivals where people arrive and proclaim, "Entertain me!" Whereas there are others (like Burning Man) where people often come to express themselves and share their creations. Even those not bringing a lot often go just to experience the joy of the creations of others.
Very true.
And you bring up an interesting point in terms of creating your own art. There are festivals where people arrive and proclaim, "Entertain me!" Whereas there are others (like Burning Man) where people often come to express themselves and share their creations. Even those not bringing a lot often go just to experience the joy of the creations of others.
When all one has is a hammer (Girardian festival analogy) all of the world's problems begin looking like nails... (socially engineer-able solutions)
I can't really tell, but I think this article is arguing that the carbon crisis would be solved so long as the smelly privileged are allowed to have orgies in fields.
I can't really tell, but I think this article is arguing that the carbon crisis would be solved so long as the smelly privileged are allowed to have orgies in fields.
> We know the rules of society are arbitrary, set up so that the show can be played out to its conclusion.
This seems wrong to me. Most society rules have a reason to exist. Maybe, in the past century a few of that rules have become obsolete. But humanity is excellent at creating rules that makes things good enough to keep going.
There is nothing that makes a society change its rules like a change on the environment.
> We should not be surprised that Western societies are showing signs of mass psychosis.
The "everything is going to hell" theory. And, as often happens, without any proof or care to explain.
> More generally, locked in, locked down, and locked out, the population’s confinement within the highly controlled environment of the internet is driving them crazy.
*Them. I guess that the author is immune to this effect.
I love festivals, and they make for a great opportunity to meet people and create community. Also, festivals are an opportunity for a community to present respect to folklore heroes and their moral values, and to laugh at villain and their lack thereof. Festivals are not to for "blow off steam".
This seems wrong to me. Most society rules have a reason to exist. Maybe, in the past century a few of that rules have become obsolete. But humanity is excellent at creating rules that makes things good enough to keep going.
There is nothing that makes a society change its rules like a change on the environment.
> We should not be surprised that Western societies are showing signs of mass psychosis.
The "everything is going to hell" theory. And, as often happens, without any proof or care to explain.
> More generally, locked in, locked down, and locked out, the population’s confinement within the highly controlled environment of the internet is driving them crazy.
*Them. I guess that the author is immune to this effect.
I love festivals, and they make for a great opportunity to meet people and create community. Also, festivals are an opportunity for a community to present respect to folklore heroes and their moral values, and to laugh at villain and their lack thereof. Festivals are not to for "blow off steam".
> Most society rules have a reason to exist.
Quite some rules are affected by such reasons as "power begets power" - incumbent rulers/influencers tweaking the rulebook to reward incumbent powers and compliant populace and punish contenders.
> Maybe, in the past century a few of that rules have become obsolete. But humanity is excellent at creating rules that makes things good enough to keep going.
> There is nothing that makes a society change its rules like a change on the environment.
From evolutionary perspective, I'd say people make up all sorts of changes, to a large degree at random, according to their own appetite. Then environment does its things, especially but not necessarily with factors not well understood by the societies, and wipes out the societies which can't survive in the new environment.
For example, the USSR has played out the game of "more power to the center, more limitations for the public, more punishments for the dissenters" until it couldn't operate anymore. And increasingly lots of people have seen it coming, some of them decades in advance.
Of course you can say "well but most people have survived and now the society has re-made itself", sure, but the society as in the set of definitive, durable, observable social constructs has ceased to exist.
Quite some rules are affected by such reasons as "power begets power" - incumbent rulers/influencers tweaking the rulebook to reward incumbent powers and compliant populace and punish contenders.
> Maybe, in the past century a few of that rules have become obsolete. But humanity is excellent at creating rules that makes things good enough to keep going.
> There is nothing that makes a society change its rules like a change on the environment.
From evolutionary perspective, I'd say people make up all sorts of changes, to a large degree at random, according to their own appetite. Then environment does its things, especially but not necessarily with factors not well understood by the societies, and wipes out the societies which can't survive in the new environment.
For example, the USSR has played out the game of "more power to the center, more limitations for the public, more punishments for the dissenters" until it couldn't operate anymore. And increasingly lots of people have seen it coming, some of them decades in advance.
Of course you can say "well but most people have survived and now the society has re-made itself", sure, but the society as in the set of definitive, durable, observable social constructs has ceased to exist.
The period directly before the fall of the Soviet Union was one of liberalization and opening up. If any thing, the history of the Soviet Union was on of decreasing repression (in fits and with some set backs) after Stalin's death. You also have to be really careful of historical predictions. Lots of people make lots of predictions. Most of them are wrong, and most of them aren't remembered.
Liberals cause communism, liberals cause the end of communism—it's just hard to keep these vague political bogeymen straight sometimes.
> Most society rules have a reason to exist.
Well, it depends how broad your definition of 'rules' is.
I've known people who consider it a 'rule' that when wearing a suit you should not do up the jacket's bottom button.
I can imagine a person who used this expansive definition might see a great many rules as arbitrary; and enjoy a festival where rules could be broken.
Well, it depends how broad your definition of 'rules' is.
I've known people who consider it a 'rule' that when wearing a suit you should not do up the jacket's bottom button.
I can imagine a person who used this expansive definition might see a great many rules as arbitrary; and enjoy a festival where rules could be broken.
> The "everything is going to hell" theory. And, as often happens, without any proof or care to explain.
How about an algorithmically-driven, heavily addicted, Brave-New-World-resembling globalized society?
Why has the concept of 'proof' been lifted so many thousand kilometers off its place as a useful tool in scientific conduct, and placed over common sense?
How about an algorithmically-driven, heavily addicted, Brave-New-World-resembling globalized society?
Why has the concept of 'proof' been lifted so many thousand kilometers off its place as a useful tool in scientific conduct, and placed over common sense?
> We know the rules of society are arbitrary
Author clearly has an underpowered pattern recognition module.
Author clearly has an underpowered pattern recognition module.
> > We know the rules of society are arbitrary, set up so that the show can be played out to its conclusion.
> This seems wrong to me. Most society rules have a reason to exist.
They do have a reason to exist but that doesn't mean the rules are not arbitrary.
Stop signs for example. They actually indicate that extra caution should be taken at the crossing. Actually stopping is rarely a necessity unless you want to obey the law to the letter. It's an arbitrary rule designed to decrease local accidents.
Flirting at the workplace is another. It's more complex, but it's still an arbitrary rule, one that we might do without, it's all about what specifically we're trying to achieve (less romantic/sexual complications - positive and negative - at the workplace) with this arbitrary rule.
There are less arbitrary rules of course, like not hurting other people, but most rules governing day-to-day life are highly arbitrary, to the point where you live an incredibly boring life unless you're a "criminal" - I don't stop at all stop signs for example, which by definition makes me a criminal. I also use drugs recreationally.
> Festivals are not to for "blow off steam".
Depends on the type of festival. I'd say all of them offer a fresh experience out of the regular day-to-day life (which could be defined as "blowing off steam"). Some might be more "transcendent" than others.
> This seems wrong to me. Most society rules have a reason to exist.
They do have a reason to exist but that doesn't mean the rules are not arbitrary.
Stop signs for example. They actually indicate that extra caution should be taken at the crossing. Actually stopping is rarely a necessity unless you want to obey the law to the letter. It's an arbitrary rule designed to decrease local accidents.
Flirting at the workplace is another. It's more complex, but it's still an arbitrary rule, one that we might do without, it's all about what specifically we're trying to achieve (less romantic/sexual complications - positive and negative - at the workplace) with this arbitrary rule.
There are less arbitrary rules of course, like not hurting other people, but most rules governing day-to-day life are highly arbitrary, to the point where you live an incredibly boring life unless you're a "criminal" - I don't stop at all stop signs for example, which by definition makes me a criminal. I also use drugs recreationally.
> Festivals are not to for "blow off steam".
Depends on the type of festival. I'd say all of them offer a fresh experience out of the regular day-to-day life (which could be defined as "blowing off steam"). Some might be more "transcendent" than others.
There is a really good reason for stopping fully at a stop sign. If your speed and that of the cross traffic vehicle is matched appropriately, the vehicle will occupy the same position (remain stationary) in your field of view. That can cause you to miss seeing the car. By stopping then looking, the car will appear in motion against a still background making it much more likely to stand out.
Sure, that's a good point, but it also applies to crossings without stop signs. :)
At least where I am (NE US), there are very few intersections that are uncontrolled in all directions.
Bicycles can also be completely blocked by the car pillars due to this effect.
>The natural order is unraveling. Plagues, floods, droughts, political unrest, riots, and economic crises strike one upon the next
Interesting concept of "natural order". What "natural" means in this context? What about "order"? Would lets say genocide be considered a part of natural order aswell?
>Societies have faced such circumstances repeatedly throughout history, just as we face them today.
Fake news. Doesn't understand History.
Interesting concept of "natural order". What "natural" means in this context? What about "order"? Would lets say genocide be considered a part of natural order aswell?
>Societies have faced such circumstances repeatedly throughout history, just as we face them today.
Fake news. Doesn't understand History.
I love this meme [1]. We’re living in the best society to date. On average, of course.
[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/memes/comments/aylts5/not_a_cellpho...
[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/memes/comments/aylts5/not_a_cellpho...
He's on to something. The prose drops little passages easy to criticize, but the overall essay has good reasoning. I strongly agree the events one attends creating an alternative reality are more therapeutic and necessary than many are willing to admit.
Where did you find any nugget of wisdom hiding in this dangerous bunkum? Holistc healing and organic farming are what we abandoned so we wouldn't starve to death or mistake sepsis for being bedevilled. There isn't any reason in any of it, the whole essay is abandonment of reason.
Holistic healing and organic farming haven’t been abandoned at all, industrial farming and pharmaceuticals have merely dwarfed them thanks to its economic efficiency.
But building soil and mixing a little wu with your morning stretches never hurt anyone (you do stretch in the morning, don’t you?)
But building soil and mixing a little wu with your morning stretches never hurt anyone (you do stretch in the morning, don’t you?)
I also liked the idea that true festivals (and riots) can serve as a regular reminder what it means to not have order in the society. It's a big immersive "what if" show.
It reminds me of the discussion of forest fires and whether to let the smaller fires burn to avoid the big, devastating fires. And then there is the question of intentionally starting fires to do the role of the smaller ones.
Given how that debate is not even agreed upon, it is hard to believe that one could come to much of an understanding of the Festival and its need with humans.
Given how that debate is not even agreed upon, it is hard to believe that one could come to much of an understanding of the Festival and its need with humans.
>None of the problems facing humanity today are technically difficult to solve.
What? None? So "plagues, floods, droughts, political unrest, riots, and economic crises" (which follow a highly-technical century as they 'strike one upon the next') are technically easy to solve?
The rest of this wild-haired rhetorical festival grows more sad and less relevant.
What? None? So "plagues, floods, droughts, political unrest, riots, and economic crises" (which follow a highly-technical century as they 'strike one upon the next') are technically easy to solve?
The rest of this wild-haired rhetorical festival grows more sad and less relevant.
The article mentions festivals as a "suspension of normal rules, mores, structures, and social distinction" and riots having a festive dimension. I don't know Girard's work enough to comment, but wonder if there is a connection between Girard and Temporary Autonomous Zones[1] (which Burning Man is a large scale example of)
As an aside, the article claims that online Burning Man failed because of it was too consumption based. It's not a good example since there were numerous issues including participants lacking VR headsets, userbase split up into different platforms (there was no singular "official" software), capacity constraints, etc. I tried it on burn night (Altspace VR) and the man was floating in mid-air as it was burning, so glitches too.
[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporary_Autonomous_Zone
As an aside, the article claims that online Burning Man failed because of it was too consumption based. It's not a good example since there were numerous issues including participants lacking VR headsets, userbase split up into different platforms (there was no singular "official" software), capacity constraints, etc. I tried it on burn night (Altspace VR) and the man was floating in mid-air as it was burning, so glitches too.
[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporary_Autonomous_Zone
The author has obviously never been to Comicon. The festivals are still there, they just aren't manditory anymore. We no longer inist that everyone enjoy the same setpiece festivals at the government-approved times and locations. Compared to the past, we are now all free to participate in or even create our own festivals.
"None of the problems facing humanity today are technically difficult to solve. Holistic farming methods could heal soil and water, sequester carbon, increase biodiversity, and actually increase yields to swiftly solve various ecological and humanitarian crises. Simply declaring a moratorium on fishing in half the world’s oceans would heal them too"
What kind of sanctimonious BS is this. I stopped reading because his thinking did not appear to be worth my time. And I came here to the comments to check if I was correct or not...
What kind of sanctimonious BS is this. I stopped reading because his thinking did not appear to be worth my time. And I came here to the comments to check if I was correct or not...
> sanctimonious BS
Ah yes, using big words and no actual critique. Can you please put more effort into this and explain why this post is “sanctimonious BS” to you?
Ah yes, using big words and no actual critique. Can you please put more effort into this and explain why this post is “sanctimonious BS” to you?
"None of the problems facing humanity today are technically difficult to solve." - yes, if you're trying to solve them the way a toddler would without considering secondary effects of your solutions.
"Simply declaring a moratorium on fishing in half the world’s oceans would heal them too" isn't going to heal the oceans suddenly. Shipping channels, pollution, and all the downstream effects of the missing calories people get from consuming ocean products would have massive secondary effects.
As I said, I didn't read the post, just this blurb that I quoted.
"Simply declaring a moratorium on fishing in half the world’s oceans would heal them too" isn't going to heal the oceans suddenly. Shipping channels, pollution, and all the downstream effects of the missing calories people get from consuming ocean products would have massive secondary effects.
As I said, I didn't read the post, just this blurb that I quoted.
[deleted]
This is mixing up the cause and the effect. What's happening isn't society fracturing for lack of occasions to break the rules, it's that society can't invent occasions to break the rules if it can't agree what the rules are. Which side of the culture war is going to be given up when "violent unanimity" is achieved at the end of the festival?
You could almost rework this to be a promotion for "The Purge" movies
I am a Girardian newb but Girard even mentions sporting events in the article.
IMO it isn't just sporting events though but violent sporting events that let us exercise the scapegoat mechanism. At least in the US. If your team wins, it doesn't matter your background if you are both fans of the same team. I really can't think of anything that quite brings us together like team sports in the 21st century.
Obviously, if you are not a sports fan this is much harder to see.
Burning man is too obvious, literal and it just isn't that many people vs the whole of society.
I can remember as a little kid the mimetic desire to become my favorite sports stars complete with wearing a jersey with their name on my back as if I was them.
On a side note, it is an absolutely ridiculous situation that Audible has one audio book by Girard. I would love to pass the time driving in the car with a wide selection of Girard to chew on.
IMO it isn't just sporting events though but violent sporting events that let us exercise the scapegoat mechanism. At least in the US. If your team wins, it doesn't matter your background if you are both fans of the same team. I really can't think of anything that quite brings us together like team sports in the 21st century.
Obviously, if you are not a sports fan this is much harder to see.
Burning man is too obvious, literal and it just isn't that many people vs the whole of society.
I can remember as a little kid the mimetic desire to become my favorite sports stars complete with wearing a jersey with their name on my back as if I was them.
On a side note, it is an absolutely ridiculous situation that Audible has one audio book by Girard. I would love to pass the time driving in the car with a wide selection of Girard to chew on.
I spent 4 marvellous days at a semi-private psychedelic trance festival in deep Russian woods this June, and I couldn't disagree more. I felt as if I witnessed an event of similar cultural significance as british late 80s raves were back in their day, but the one that nobody outside of the community really knows anything about.
The festival culture is alive and well, it's just got a little bit private, as it tries to conceal itself from authorities and masses. Burning Man, as well as many other festivals that attracted crowds lost a lot of intimacy and implied freedom; I just don't believe that you could feel the same way in a commercial festival that has more than a thousand of attendees.
The festival culture is alive and well, it's just got a little bit private, as it tries to conceal itself from authorities and masses. Burning Man, as well as many other festivals that attracted crowds lost a lot of intimacy and implied freedom; I just don't believe that you could feel the same way in a commercial festival that has more than a thousand of attendees.
These smaller festivals seem great for those who can attend, but it seems like for those who can't the largest option is commercialized subcultures, something like Star Wars Celebration to pick an example.
There are smaller festivals everywhere if you know where to look. And by that I don't mean they are secret or anything like that, just that they don't have the advertising budget of Star Wars conventions. A few Google searches is usually enough to give you some event close to you, and once you get there, if you are interested, people will tell you about more "underground" events.
And sure, Covid closed a lot of them, but the scene is not dead, in fact it is more than ready to start again as soon as they are allowed to. And by the virtue of being smaller, they are at an advantage: more flexible, less likely to exceed attendance thresholds, and sometimes a bit less legal.
And sure, Covid closed a lot of them, but the scene is not dead, in fact it is more than ready to start again as soon as they are allowed to. And by the virtue of being smaller, they are at an advantage: more flexible, less likely to exceed attendance thresholds, and sometimes a bit less legal.
> those who can attend
Why wouldn't someone be able to attend? Just to clarify, I saw startup founders with net worth of tens of million of dollars and "true hippies" living on $300 a month and I couldn't tell them apart.
Why wouldn't someone be able to attend? Just to clarify, I saw startup founders with net worth of tens of million of dollars and "true hippies" living on $300 a month and I couldn't tell them apart.
Not necessarily financially, but in terms of accessibility. For example I've personally never heard of a festival like this nearby me, outside of music festivals perhaps. Going by the article festivals were once more of a everyone or almost everyone affair.
But festivals like this are dedicated to music which is definitely is not everyone affair: most people just don't like it. If you want to judge for yourself, the festival in question had artists like Psykovsky and Fungus Funk. Do you think that this is something general public would enjoy listening? (No elitism intended, I don't think that my music taste is better than anyone else's. I just as a matter of fact know that it's a little different).
But if you're one of the people who like and follow this music scene, you'd probably go to some publicly announced psytrance parties, meet people there, and hear about this festival as well.
And finally, there's question of the authorities. Even if we forget about the very strong psychedelic tradition that follows this genre of music (it's literally in the name, and for a very good reason), it's not a good idea to draw attention to any music event in Russia, unless you have very good lawyers and serious money involved that can protect your interest.
But if you're one of the people who like and follow this music scene, you'd probably go to some publicly announced psytrance parties, meet people there, and hear about this festival as well.
And finally, there's question of the authorities. Even if we forget about the very strong psychedelic tradition that follows this genre of music (it's literally in the name, and for a very good reason), it's not a good idea to draw attention to any music event in Russia, unless you have very good lawyers and serious money involved that can protect your interest.
I guess it's not so much that I wish those festivals were open to the public, but that there was something that provided a similar experience that was available to everyone, or typically participated in by everyone if that makes sense. The closest example I can think of is Halloween as a kid, outside of the "go around eating candy" part.
Except those types of festivals are marketing events, not true festivals.
Can I ask, would a transgender person who speaks some Russian be able to reasonably safely go to Russia? I've practically almost been lynched in the USA so I am wary. I carry a gun and would feel pretty naked without it.
Pro: I used to live on the street so I don't think I would be too phased by anything like average Americans.
So, you think it's a good idea?
Pro: I used to live on the street so I don't think I would be too phased by anything like average Americans.
So, you think it's a good idea?
I wrote a big comment and deleted it, because it all depends on your notion of reasonable safety. If you look transgender, you will certainly get glances and some occasional verbal aggression, but as long as you follow the basic common sense safety rules, I doubt that you'll have to worry about something worse. Russia is a huge place, and living in a center of Moscow does feel like one of the most modern, shiny European cities. There's plenty of middle class (by US and Europe standards; they're at least upper-middle class by Russian standards) people living by progressive western values. But there's plenty of places that aren't that welcoming.
Well that certainly added every ingredient in the kitchen. Who can argue with such a sprawling word associative piece of prose? I’m not entirely sure I understood the latent threat, nor do I see any attempt to apply these concepts to seriously “modernly” repressed societies, oh let’s just take North Korea. Are they all just going to socially explode? What are the concrete consequences of removing all dangerous festivals from society?
> As for Burning Man and the transformational music & art festivals, these have exercised some of the festival’s authentic function – until recently, when their exile to online platforms stripped them of any transcendental possibility. Much as the organizers are doing their best to keep the idea of the festival alive, online festivals risk becoming just another show for consumption. One clicks into them, sits back, and watches. In-person festivals are different. They start with a journey, then one must undergo an ordeal (waiting in line for hours). Finally you get to the entrance temple (the registration booth), where a small divination ritual (checking the list) is performed to determine your fitness to attend (by having made the appropriate sacrifice – a payment – beforehand). Thereupon, the priest or priestess in the booth confers upon the celebrant a special talisman to wear around the wrist at all times. After all this, the subconscious mind understands one has entered a separate realm, where indeed, to a degree at least, normal distinctions, relations, and rules do not apply. Online events of any kind rest safely in the home. Whatever the content, the body recognizes it as a show.
I don't buy it. Surely there are still burns and de-facto lawless (as long as safety of others is not violated, and by that I'm not talking about social distancing or masks) festivals happening worldwide still? It's just that most government/corporate-backed ordeals, and huge (1k+ participants) events are called off.
Here in JP (an otherwise famously very restrictive and normative society), meat-space outdoors raves/festivals and rainbow-like gatherings have been thriving during the pandemic, even moreso now during the summer, likely due to the nerfing of indoor club events.
May be the case for other scenes as well; this is just the one I'm personally familiar with presently.
From my limited perspective the festival scene is more active than ever: There are multiple 1-to-3-day raves/music festivals happening every week within 2h drive from where I'm at in the sleepy conforming boonies, states of emergency or not. There is certainly code, but I argue at least the events my friend groups have been frequenting are easily breaking social norms enough that they're still valid under their definition. They may be smaller, but they're more in numbers and frequency.
From what I hear, the fetish subscenes also alive, active, and well.
If it still happens here, I'd be surprised if it wasn't the case most everywhere. I suspect the author hasn't been seriously surveying their locale.
(I certainly don't go rave every week; I know people who do, though. I gave up trying to preach to people that they should act COVID-safer. Party people gonna party people)
I don't buy it. Surely there are still burns and de-facto lawless (as long as safety of others is not violated, and by that I'm not talking about social distancing or masks) festivals happening worldwide still? It's just that most government/corporate-backed ordeals, and huge (1k+ participants) events are called off.
Here in JP (an otherwise famously very restrictive and normative society), meat-space outdoors raves/festivals and rainbow-like gatherings have been thriving during the pandemic, even moreso now during the summer, likely due to the nerfing of indoor club events.
May be the case for other scenes as well; this is just the one I'm personally familiar with presently.
From my limited perspective the festival scene is more active than ever: There are multiple 1-to-3-day raves/music festivals happening every week within 2h drive from where I'm at in the sleepy conforming boonies, states of emergency or not. There is certainly code, but I argue at least the events my friend groups have been frequenting are easily breaking social norms enough that they're still valid under their definition. They may be smaller, but they're more in numbers and frequency.
From what I hear, the fetish subscenes also alive, active, and well.
If it still happens here, I'd be surprised if it wasn't the case most everywhere. I suspect the author hasn't been seriously surveying their locale.
(I certainly don't go rave every week; I know people who do, though. I gave up trying to preach to people that they should act COVID-safer. Party people gonna party people)
I think the point of that passage is that “online” festivals no longer provide the function of the archetypal festival and are reduced to mere entertainment. Clearly, many festivals suffered this fate during the pandemic, and individuals accustomed to attending them had to go without or find alternatives.
Also, I’d argue that niche or underground “festival” activity doesn’t really live up the archetypal ideal anyway—traditional festivals cut across the societal spectrum.
Also, I’d argue that niche or underground “festival” activity doesn’t really live up the archetypal ideal anyway—traditional festivals cut across the societal spectrum.
Ironically COVID might save festival culture from total megacorp commercialization for another generation while giving back outdoor rave their clandestine feel, While being comparably safe compared to indoor booze-fests.
Regarding online, the emerging 'just chatting' Twitch rave scene is something to behold in it's anarchism.
Regarding online, the emerging 'just chatting' Twitch rave scene is something to behold in it's anarchism.
Could you give me some pointers to find them on twitch in that category? Do they use tags or common words in the titles? "Rave"?
A german article on that phenomenon is here:
https://www.dj-lab.de/reportage-die-fabelhafte-welt-der-twit...
Yes a bit german heavy, but quite remarkle in contrast with the polished stuff like `cercle`.
Yes a bit german heavy, but quite remarkle in contrast with the polished stuff like `cercle`.
Thanks!
[deleted]
Reads a lot like Jordan Peterson. Essays on psychological symbolism are hard to judge; I’ve read some Jung and Campbell but my comprehension still feels weak.
Other essays by the author are more overtly religious, and conspiratorial, similar to Peterson as well.
Or consider Wittgenstein. Maybe people attend festivals just because it’s fun.
Stopped reading at `Systemic use of natural and alternative healing modalities could vastly reduce covid mortality`
Ok, but please don't post unsubstantive comments to Hacker News.
Physical exercise, breathwork, healthy diets and diverse immune exposure all seem rather "holistic" and yet seem rather likely to reduce covid mortality -- perhaps much more so than, say, Remdesvir
When people refer to natural or alternative medicine, they're not usually talking about common sense lifestyle changes universally endorsed by the medical establishment. That's just regular medicine.
You'd think so, but no. My father had amazing cancer care but the idea of prescribing him yoga or actually any kind of light physical fitness program was considered "integrative" medicine and basically outside of the mainstream. This is changing. But "regular medicine" is, at present, very much not a holistic healing practice.
> Physical exercise, breathwork, healthy diets and diverse immune exposure
I've gone to "mainstream healing" doctors and they always recommend exercise, have a good diet, etc. When people say "alternative healing" that's not usually what they mean.
I've gone to "mainstream healing" doctors and they always recommend exercise, have a good diet, etc. When people say "alternative healing" that's not usually what they mean.
Why? You might disagree but the article is interesting?
Can you also assert that there’s nothing “natural” you can do that would systematically help with COVID prevention? Quitting smoking, running, healthy inmune system with dieting and so on?
Can you also assert that there’s nothing “natural” you can do that would systematically help with COVID prevention? Quitting smoking, running, healthy inmune system with dieting and so on?
Quitting smoking is not what natural means here. Natural & Alternative is a catch all term for holistic medicine.
That's not particularly alternative, it's interventions completely accepted by the medical system.
That's not what he means and you know it.
I’m honestly not sure what he means. I may disagree with most, but I’m just surprised about people stopping reading when they hear something they disagree with.
It’s not even the central point of the article.
It’s not even the central point of the article.
It's stopping reading at a sentence dripping with pseudo intellectualism. When writers try too hard to sound intelligent and erudite it's off-putting, and a "bullshit" indicator.
I agree that it puts me off as well but it's also feels a bit like a no true Scotsman fallacy. If we're always on the lookout for "bad words" then we will eventually set up impossible standards for how we speak.
Yeah this is a major problem in the political landscape overall. Like for example refusing to read anything by conservatives just because you happen to disagree with them on abortion issues. You're going to be a) missing out on a lot of insights and b) even worse, create a divide where you can't even understand the other side anymore just because you outright refuse to hear them out.
I tripped on that sentence myself but continued reading since it seemed like a minor point to the actual story and I wasn't disappointed.
I tripped on that sentence myself but continued reading since it seemed like a minor point to the actual story and I wasn't disappointed.
[deleted]
Feels like you're throwing out the baby with the bathwater a bit there.
[deleted]
[deleted]
Carnivals and festivals today are still role reversals, where some Burners described it to me as for a week in the desert, artists and working people become administrators and facilitators where in regular life they may have little formal authority in their own roles, but here they are the volunteer leaders and make the whole thing go, and then white collar people who spend their lives projecting an edgeless affect can walk around naked, anonymous, and high. No doubt it's more than that, but as something that puts the carnal in carnival, it was a useful description.
Personally, I think Girardian warnings of scapegoating rituals are late arriving words for a greater dynamic that appears to have been set in motion, as though if we've heard of his ideas and work, it's because we already needed to know them. The author's admonition that storm clouds are gathering is a pervasive sentiment in conversations I've had lately, but to extend the metaphor, everyone thinks they need to prepare for a storm, without considering that what they should be worried about is a flood and its aftermath.
I wish festivals could help relieve some of the tectonic social pressures of the last few years, but as he points out, whether they are sanctioned events with artists, or just riots and worse, they're going to happen one way or another.