Ask HN: How do I act at work as to not be disadvantaged?
17 comments
Keep being nice. Ask other people questions, people like a good listener - but if they run on too much ask them to summarize. Be willing to say no, regularly, and if asked for explanations be blunt but not arrogant or helpless, eg 'I'd prefer not to take on more projects' rather than 'it's not interesting' or 'I don't have time.' Help others. Don't ask people to help, which requires them to work out what sort of help you need. Ask them to do specific things, which gives them an easy decision as long as your requests are not burdensome.
Take the initiative, which is often as simple as being the first person to leave a conversation or conversely make others wait a little to discover your opinion. Those can be your times to lead. Settling small disputes by saying you'll take responsibility will win you attention because so many people prefer to duck it.
Tell people it's nice to see them and look out for opportunities to give people small compliments. Don't talk too much. Don't forget to thank people. Thanks that come later make more of an impact than thanks in the moment.
In sum, limit your availability but make your presence enjoyable to others while providing a sense of direction.
Take the initiative, which is often as simple as being the first person to leave a conversation or conversely make others wait a little to discover your opinion. Those can be your times to lead. Settling small disputes by saying you'll take responsibility will win you attention because so many people prefer to duck it.
Tell people it's nice to see them and look out for opportunities to give people small compliments. Don't talk too much. Don't forget to thank people. Thanks that come later make more of an impact than thanks in the moment.
In sum, limit your availability but make your presence enjoyable to others while providing a sense of direction.
great advice here, thanks for sharing! these techniques could also be used outside the work environment too.
It kind of sounds to me like you’re guessing what people are thinking instead of having actual data to work with. Have asked anyone what they think of you? And have you asked your manager/superior what the qualifications are for promotions?
I encourage everyone to be open and friendly. You get more social credit by being friendly. That credit extends into benefits like promotions and distribution of work (you might end up getting the fun project rather than the dull one). Demeanor is something you can change on a whim - even if you don’t really feel like it. I haven’t ever heard of someone not being taken seriously because they were friendly. And I’ve never heard of anyone not getting promoted because they seemed like a happy person.
People get promoted usually because they’re doing good work and it gets noticed. The reward for a good job is more work.
I encourage everyone to be open and friendly. You get more social credit by being friendly. That credit extends into benefits like promotions and distribution of work (you might end up getting the fun project rather than the dull one). Demeanor is something you can change on a whim - even if you don’t really feel like it. I haven’t ever heard of someone not being taken seriously because they were friendly. And I’ve never heard of anyone not getting promoted because they seemed like a happy person.
People get promoted usually because they’re doing good work and it gets noticed. The reward for a good job is more work.
It feels to me like you're somewhat missing the issue. You have a lack of trust issue due to your self proclaimed reclusiveness.
Begin outside of your work. This will help drop the inherent fear of material security. Take a look at your relationships. List them out if you need to. Choose the ones you feel comfortable improving in some way. And here comes the important part. Promise yourself you're going to make it better and as soon as possible promise to someone you respect you're going to improve it. This will keep you accountable.
Depending on how it goes and where you are right now it might take a couple of years so be patient. At some point your experiences will more or less auto transfer to work. Aim at creating trust by e.g. organizing events, even remembering a birthday might help. Good luck!
Begin outside of your work. This will help drop the inherent fear of material security. Take a look at your relationships. List them out if you need to. Choose the ones you feel comfortable improving in some way. And here comes the important part. Promise yourself you're going to make it better and as soon as possible promise to someone you respect you're going to improve it. This will keep you accountable.
Depending on how it goes and where you are right now it might take a couple of years so be patient. At some point your experiences will more or less auto transfer to work. Aim at creating trust by e.g. organizing events, even remembering a birthday might help. Good luck!
It seems like you feel that you being open and friendly has hurt your chances at promotions/raises and then when you try to correct for that it also hurts your chances.
Instead of guessing if acting a certain way will get you a promotion, what you need to do is work with your manager to come up with a concrete plan with concrete steps to get promoted. Figure out exactly what criteria your manager is looking for and make sure you are learning how to do that, and whenever you make progress make sure your manager agrees with your own assessment of your progress. And if they don't agree, learn exactly why. Get it so clear that there is no hand waving or hiding behind excuses.
I am extremely open and friendly and I have had no problems getting promoted. On the other hand, at the beginning of my career I never got promoted despite being the best performer on every team I was on. Then one manager who noticed me started talking to me about what I needed to do to get promoted. Spoiler: It's not just technical skill. All of a sudden, my career took off like a rocket ship. Ever since then I've been the one who started the career conversations with my manager because I realized that I am the one in charge of my career and I don't want to rely on the competence of whomever I work for. I definitely wish I learned this lesson earlier, but I'm also happy that I learned it at all.
Instead of guessing if acting a certain way will get you a promotion, what you need to do is work with your manager to come up with a concrete plan with concrete steps to get promoted. Figure out exactly what criteria your manager is looking for and make sure you are learning how to do that, and whenever you make progress make sure your manager agrees with your own assessment of your progress. And if they don't agree, learn exactly why. Get it so clear that there is no hand waving or hiding behind excuses.
I am extremely open and friendly and I have had no problems getting promoted. On the other hand, at the beginning of my career I never got promoted despite being the best performer on every team I was on. Then one manager who noticed me started talking to me about what I needed to do to get promoted. Spoiler: It's not just technical skill. All of a sudden, my career took off like a rocket ship. Ever since then I've been the one who started the career conversations with my manager because I realized that I am the one in charge of my career and I don't want to rely on the competence of whomever I work for. I definitely wish I learned this lesson earlier, but I'm also happy that I learned it at all.
One of my most successful coworkers, who recently got a promotion this year, spends his time chatting with people, joking all day, and bantering with people in different departments. He's the go-to guy for figuring out if there's an existing solution to a problem or getting an opinion of if some work is going to run into problems later with some other changes someone is going to make.
The point I'm trying to make is, that it pays to be connected to your coworkers, because problems get solved when information is flowing between people.
It shouldn't be all work related conversations either. It's much easier to change subjects to something more serious when you have a rapport with someone and they are more likely to confide in you if they know you're on the same team.
And the answer to why give someone who's happy a raise, It's so they stay because they are becoming an essential part of the business and they're increasing everyone else's productivity as well. And if they don't give you a raise, you'll have built a large network of friends at your company who will probably want to bring you along as well if they leave.
The point I'm trying to make is, that it pays to be connected to your coworkers, because problems get solved when information is flowing between people.
It shouldn't be all work related conversations either. It's much easier to change subjects to something more serious when you have a rapport with someone and they are more likely to confide in you if they know you're on the same team.
And the answer to why give someone who's happy a raise, It's so they stay because they are becoming an essential part of the business and they're increasing everyone else's productivity as well. And if they don't give you a raise, you'll have built a large network of friends at your company who will probably want to bring you along as well if they leave.
It sounds like have come to the conclusion that you can either be taken seriously or you can be open and friendly, as though those two things are in conflict with each other and you need to choose between them. If you _have_ come to this conclusion then be aware that this is not the case. You most definitely can be taken seriously and seen as a leader _and_ be warm and open. It's helpful to view these two attributes as two different dimensions which you can maximise separately.
The book that really helped me with this is The Charisma Myth by Olivia Fox Cabane. It presents a really simple model for charisma as consisting of three components: power, warmth and presence, and gives a lot of advice to help you to strengthen each of those components by doing exercises that work on different aspects of your psychology. The key insight for me was realising that you can come across as both powerful/serious and as warm/compassionate/friendly, and that people who do this are described as charismatic. I genuinely didn't realise that until I read the book - I thought you had to choose between being nice and being taken seriously - and that's why you'll often find me recommending it on HN and elsewhere.
Another book that presents a different but similar model is Radical Candor by Kim Scott. The premise of this book is that you might think that you have to choose between giving candid feedback (including negative feedback) to your teammates or caring about their wellbeing, but that this is not the case. You absolutely _can_ do both and, again, it's extremely valuable to do so.
How does the above sound? Does it address your situation or does it miss the point? I'd be interested to hear any feedback or further questions that you have.
The book that really helped me with this is The Charisma Myth by Olivia Fox Cabane. It presents a really simple model for charisma as consisting of three components: power, warmth and presence, and gives a lot of advice to help you to strengthen each of those components by doing exercises that work on different aspects of your psychology. The key insight for me was realising that you can come across as both powerful/serious and as warm/compassionate/friendly, and that people who do this are described as charismatic. I genuinely didn't realise that until I read the book - I thought you had to choose between being nice and being taken seriously - and that's why you'll often find me recommending it on HN and elsewhere.
Another book that presents a different but similar model is Radical Candor by Kim Scott. The premise of this book is that you might think that you have to choose between giving candid feedback (including negative feedback) to your teammates or caring about their wellbeing, but that this is not the case. You absolutely _can_ do both and, again, it's extremely valuable to do so.
How does the above sound? Does it address your situation or does it miss the point? I'd be interested to hear any feedback or further questions that you have.
A critical self evaluation of your personality wouldn't hurt. Check out the Big 5 personality model. Unlike the Meyers Briggs its based on a search for answers in actual data, some call it science. There's plenty of tests out there and plenty of youtube videos. Here's my favorites:
https://www.understandmyself.com/
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLx8EASkSeQ
https://www.understandmyself.com/
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLx8EASkSeQ
I see two different questions here:
Do you want more money and more responsibility?
Or do you want to be liked and accepted by your peers?
Some more questions: Do you like the person you are right now? Would talking and communicating more be very uncomfortable for your personality and cause you fear or anxiety?
Some more questions: Do you like the person you are right now? Would talking and communicating more be very uncomfortable for your personality and cause you fear or anxiety?
Have you read "How to Win Friends and Influence People" ? It's often recommended here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influen...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influen...
I second this. For a long time the title was a turn off for me but I finally decided to give it a chance and it’s was awesome!!
It is not as manipulative as the book title suggests. It’s more like “what actually IS being _nice_”
It is not as manipulative as the book title suggests. It’s more like “what actually IS being _nice_”
Be kind. Be yourself. When you feel like making more money leave and get a new job. If you liked the company and didn't want to leave, go back a year later for better money and title.
Edit: I just realized you didn't say what you do. Results may vary if you try this outside of software.
Edit: I just realized you didn't say what you do. Results may vary if you try this outside of software.
Be cool. Don't try so hard to be liked. Don't think. Give
fewer f's what other people think because YCPEATT.
Note to self: easy access to the internet is making me stupid. Instead of trying to figure out what YCPEATT meant, I immediately tried duckduckgo. When that failed, I tried google. When that failed, I spent a whole 5 seconds figuring out the initialism.
If I’m reclusive, people consider me detracted and dull to be around and nobody wants to do much with the dull, reclusive man.
If I’m open and friendly, I find that people don’t take me as serious and I potentially miss out on promotions and raises. Why give the man who’s happy a “please stay” raise? He’s happy! Why give him a promotion? We need somebody who’s not so friendly with people and is looked at as a leader not a peer. I also find it’s hard to be seen as a leader amongst peers if you’re friendly with them.
How does one balance these two extremes? I want to be friendly and kind but I also want people to take me seriously.