Incels: A new terror threat to the UK?(bbc.co.uk)
bbc.co.uk
Incels: A new terror threat to the UK?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58207064
43 comments
There is a lot of things people can be inspired by to commit horrible acts of violence. A decade ago it was GTA and video games. A decade more it was rap. Before that all the classic 90s action films.
What I would be worried about is the social environment which had a person that was able to consider murdering 10 people. The classical profile would be a person with no social support, no attachment to their near environment, and borderline personality disorder. Looking at the details about the attack, it was a high school teen who moved to Toronto with no attachment to the new home, was a social outcast at the bottom of their perceived social ladder, and suffered from a personality disorder. While its only a very small portion of such people that are able to consider becoming a mass murdered, much of the risk factors were preventable. As a society we are much better off if we focused on fixing the risk factors than what ever is an currently popular inspiration once a person has decided that it is okey to kill an other human being.
What I would be worried about is the social environment which had a person that was able to consider murdering 10 people. The classical profile would be a person with no social support, no attachment to their near environment, and borderline personality disorder. Looking at the details about the attack, it was a high school teen who moved to Toronto with no attachment to the new home, was a social outcast at the bottom of their perceived social ladder, and suffered from a personality disorder. While its only a very small portion of such people that are able to consider becoming a mass murdered, much of the risk factors were preventable. As a society we are much better off if we focused on fixing the risk factors than what ever is an currently popular inspiration once a person has decided that it is okey to kill an other human being.
I learned recently the term incel. It seems to have a bad connotation even though it describes something very human. I've long theorized that a lot of terrorism would be gone if dudes would get laid. It's not for no reason that some groups promise hundreds of virgin women in heaven if you get killed in combat.
Two interesting things from the point of view of someone who doesn't know much about the term incel, but:
* I think technology is going to put a dent into this. It's easier and easier to meet someone else via apps like Tinder.
* At the same time it's interesting that this "minority" found itself as a community thanks to social medias.
Two interesting things from the point of view of someone who doesn't know much about the term incel, but:
* I think technology is going to put a dent into this. It's easier and easier to meet someone else via apps like Tinder.
* At the same time it's interesting that this "minority" found itself as a community thanks to social medias.
Tinder for men is super complex. You have to be at least average to stand a chance.
Their attractiveness puts them right into the "swap to reject" category.
Their attractiveness puts them right into the "swap to reject" category.
I got hitched quickly after tinder became a thing, so haven’t had much time but it already helped me do some dates in a place where it was hard to get one. Lots of my friends have had lots of success with it while little to no success without. It really seems like a game changer.
> I've long theorized that a lot of terrorism would be gone if dudes would get laid.
Daesh fighters often have/had multiple wives. Many of the 9/11 hijackers were married. The history of the IRA, and ETA are full of married dudes blowing up civilians.
Only a very narrow type of mass murderer fits the incel mold.
Daesh fighters often have/had multiple wives. Many of the 9/11 hijackers were married. The history of the IRA, and ETA are full of married dudes blowing up civilians.
Only a very narrow type of mass murderer fits the incel mold.
Anecdotic but I remember watching a documentary in France about someone going undercover and meeting these terrorist wannabes. At some point they tried to get one of the guys to marry another girl he had never met, for the cause, perhaps to add more credibility or something. That scene was like that guy’s most beautiful day ever (from his pov).
When I think of more organized jihadists, I also think about people fighting for a cause and blaming, rightly or wrongly, the US for a lot of the problems in the middle east. The ones that act within their own western countries seem to have become extremists for much more frustration-related reasons. My 2 cents.
When I think of more organized jihadists, I also think about people fighting for a cause and blaming, rightly or wrongly, the US for a lot of the problems in the middle east. The ones that act within their own western countries seem to have become extremists for much more frustration-related reasons. My 2 cents.
I think technology made the problem worse. These guys get together and share their anecdotal stories about being rejected by women and it cements their world view. They get black pilled and feel it's out of their control.
It is the opposite of a self-help group. If these guys actually wanted to improve, they'd go to the gym, fix their clothes, be more hygienic, hold themselves accountable and etc. Instead they all share their rejection stories and blame society for their problems. Eventually it comes to a head.
It is the opposite of a self-help group. If these guys actually wanted to improve, they'd go to the gym, fix their clothes, be more hygienic, hold themselves accountable and etc. Instead they all share their rejection stories and blame society for their problems. Eventually it comes to a head.
Are incels only about this more “redpill” group? Or is it more nuanced and it’s also about peaceful and self improvement groups as well?
Short answer: Nuanced.
Long answer: There are many "pills" for different mindsets, and I don't believe incels subscribe to any specific "pill" in their entirety. I don't have enough first hand experience with incel groups to say which is most prevalent, but I would assume it's a toss up between the red and black pill. These guys fault society and women for their problems instead of attempting to fix it themselves.
Here are the main pills I've seen used online. Some have political connotations attached to them;
White pill - Having hope and optimistic look on the future. You probably won't see this in incel communities.
Black pill - Everything is out of my control, and I have no power over outcomes.
Red pill - This is the most ambiguous of the "pills". It is about recognizing "how the world really is". This is a huge spectrum from "The media lies" to extreme racism. Sometimes it is also used to describe someone joining the Republican party.
Blue pill - Believing main stream media narratives. Often used as a synonym for "ignorant" and "naive." Sometimes used to describe someone joining the Democratic party.
Those are the main pills I've seen used online. There are more, and the ADL[1] has a decent breakdown of others that I won't go over here. Some of these I've never heard of and are NSFW.
NSFW! [1] - https://www.adl.org/blog/the-extremist-medicine-cabinet-a-gu...
Long answer: There are many "pills" for different mindsets, and I don't believe incels subscribe to any specific "pill" in their entirety. I don't have enough first hand experience with incel groups to say which is most prevalent, but I would assume it's a toss up between the red and black pill. These guys fault society and women for their problems instead of attempting to fix it themselves.
Here are the main pills I've seen used online. Some have political connotations attached to them;
White pill - Having hope and optimistic look on the future. You probably won't see this in incel communities.
Black pill - Everything is out of my control, and I have no power over outcomes.
Red pill - This is the most ambiguous of the "pills". It is about recognizing "how the world really is". This is a huge spectrum from "The media lies" to extreme racism. Sometimes it is also used to describe someone joining the Republican party.
Blue pill - Believing main stream media narratives. Often used as a synonym for "ignorant" and "naive." Sometimes used to describe someone joining the Democratic party.
Those are the main pills I've seen used online. There are more, and the ADL[1] has a decent breakdown of others that I won't go over here. Some of these I've never heard of and are NSFW.
NSFW! [1] - https://www.adl.org/blog/the-extremist-medicine-cabinet-a-gu...
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Sex is important but computers are more.
Rabbits and rats have a lot of sex but they can not do a simple "Hello World" program.
If you can not have sex do sports and play with computers.
Rabbits and rats have a lot of sex but they can not do a simple "Hello World" program.
If you can not have sex do sports and play with computers.
Sounds like a whole bunch of generalizations made by someone only because they need to write words to get paid.
In a weird way, I kind of have to agree. Granted I'm only familiar with the cartoonish, hyper-stylized internet version of the involuntary celebate, but in this version they are always white, right and misogynistic even though they love women (in a very twisted and immature fashion), but submissive to women when women talk to them (real or imagined). Thus frustration then turns into violence when whatever fantasy is not reciprocated.
There are a few things wrong with the version I've read, as is plain to see. An involuntary celibate would have no race - surely. I've known enough nerds in my time who had trouble with girls where no explanation is necessary. So it isn't just that.
If it's truly "an online community" as has been posited elsewhere in these forums, I have a doubt that these young men are going on suicide runs. Community tends to have the opposite effect on that. Being part of a community, even one as depraved as a white power group or whatever is theorized by this writer, keeps people from committing suicide (and white trash girls don't have the highest standards, if it's just a sex thing).
To be honest, this seems a lot like "nerd shaming", to borrow a turn of phrase. It almost feels like to add insult to (literal) injury, these people are screaming "VIRGIN!" instead of looking for what really drove a person to do something horrible, like some fratboy d-bag trying his least to come up with a solution.
There are a few things wrong with the version I've read, as is plain to see. An involuntary celibate would have no race - surely. I've known enough nerds in my time who had trouble with girls where no explanation is necessary. So it isn't just that.
If it's truly "an online community" as has been posited elsewhere in these forums, I have a doubt that these young men are going on suicide runs. Community tends to have the opposite effect on that. Being part of a community, even one as depraved as a white power group or whatever is theorized by this writer, keeps people from committing suicide (and white trash girls don't have the highest standards, if it's just a sex thing).
To be honest, this seems a lot like "nerd shaming", to borrow a turn of phrase. It almost feels like to add insult to (literal) injury, these people are screaming "VIRGIN!" instead of looking for what really drove a person to do something horrible, like some fratboy d-bag trying his least to come up with a solution.
Incels are an online community responsible for real world terrorists attacks.
Is this community in the room with you right now?
Are you an incel? It’s a very real thing and you pretending it’s not does little to change the minds of everyone else about the danger of these people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Isla_Vista_killings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Isla_Vista_killings
I guess it’s not really up to me, what with it being involuntary and all.
The lack of women falling to the ground with legs spread wide to accept having sex done to them is involuntary. The brand of "incel" is a choice.
Note: I don't actually belief women are objects and men are owed sex. That first sentence is intended to be descriptive.
Note: I don't actually belief women are objects and men are owed sex. That first sentence is intended to be descriptive.
Are you accusing someone of being a terrorist?
Isn't sex work legal in the UK, and shouldn't that have a damping effect on the incel thing? I mean, it's hard to be enraged to the point of mass-murder when you can get laid for 100 quid.
Came here to ask this same question. Amazing how peaceful things are when everyone gets the full Maslow hierarchy experience.
You can jerk off. It is cheaper and it have less moral issues.
Incels are a community--if an incel were to see a sex worker, they would no longer be an incel, and would lose access to the community. The real driver of the community is ostensibly access to sex but I think it's really about being in a tribe of people that identify as ugly/failures/losers.
That's not always true as most don't count paid-for sex to break their inceldom. Though some even have trouble paying for sex being that they are so unattractive.
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They aren’t mad because they can’t get laid they are mad because they can’t get hot girls to sleep with them for free. If they worked on their careers and charisma they could probably land an attractive girl but I digress.
It’s this strange phenomenon where they claim they desperately want a relationship, but also have ludicrously specific requirements as to what the person in that relationship should be like. Those requirements are often thinly veiled hatred for perceived qualities of the other gender (such as an incel disqualifying nearly every woman for being “sluts”). Incels have adopted a worldview that disqualifies essentially all living humans as valid romantic partners - they don’t want just any partner, they want an impossibly idealized partner.
Heck, there are both male and female incel communities (each claiming they can’t find anybody of the other gender to form a relationship with) which would be funny were it not so grim.
So to your comment: I don’t think it necessarily matters how well groomed or charismatic or conventionally attractive they are. As long as they have that hate of the other gender any potential partner will be rejected.
Heck, there are both male and female incel communities (each claiming they can’t find anybody of the other gender to form a relationship with) which would be funny were it not so grim.
So to your comment: I don’t think it necessarily matters how well groomed or charismatic or conventionally attractive they are. As long as they have that hate of the other gender any potential partner will be rejected.
> female incel communities
In their case, the solution they seem to arrive at is to buy/adopt more cats. Incel men really need to get a similar hobby.
In their case, the solution they seem to arrive at is to buy/adopt more cats. Incel men really need to get a similar hobby.
Tbh this essentially just like saying to a depressed person: "have you tried not being depressed?". Of course they could get a girl if they were more attractive.
Plenty of unattractive men get girls. The "ugly man/hot woman" dynamic is so common it's cliche. Guys would be surprised how far simple hygiene and a good personality (which includes treating women like people) will get them.
I'm sorry it wasn't clear. I meant attractive as a whole package, not just physical appearance.
Maybe. But I think the point is that incels cultures promotes this idea that they deserve some platonic ideal of a pretty virgin girl that just doesn’t, and has never, existed. They are mad because the girls they know in real life don’t want to fuck them and the girls don’t want them because they are incels. If they lowered their standards and put as much effort into improving themselves (in a real world sense) as they did into being hateful online they could probably get girlfriends.
For the life of me, I can't understand why everybody in modern society is supposed to get some sympathy for being marginalized or a victim of some kind, but a group of people who can't achieve some kind of basic human connection for whatever reason are so outright hated on by the media and establishment politics.
It's a good question, but it does have an answer: violence. When members of a community do violence, especially generalized violence, it seeds terror in the population. It's not fair that the entire community is blamed for the actions of a few; in an ideal world we'd be able to understand that distinction. But from all the history I've read, that's not how humans work. We make snap judgements, generalize and approximate about large groups based on anecdotal evidence. (It probably doesn't help that "incel" connotes "terror cell".)
Because they are targeting people (an actual marginalized group: women) and killing them.
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Remember: always be lifting, never give a shit about what others think about you, look to what the successful people do and not what they say, don't cargo cult, and always be trying to improve your day to day routine.
Incels aren't a threat to the UK, incels are a byproduct of western society crumbling under 60 years of gross mismanagement. What caused them to exist is the threat. Here in the US, you can thank the people who ushered Reagan into the White House, in the UK, whoever their neo-lib equivalents are.
Incels aren't a threat to the UK, incels are a byproduct of western society crumbling under 60 years of gross mismanagement. What caused them to exist is the threat. Here in the US, you can thank the people who ushered Reagan into the White House, in the UK, whoever their neo-lib equivalents are.
Incels are surely a byproduct of our society, not only the West but also my country (Japan) and other regions (so called "ethnicels"[1]), and a threat at the same time.
They have already crossed the line. Violence, especially femicide, due to their misogyny and self-pity is not able to be justified by any words.
> What caused them to exist is the threat.
I agree with that it is a threat and removing it is the fundamental solution. But we should also have symptomatic treatment for making the world of today safer.
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel#Lexicology
> What caused them to exist is the threat.
I agree with that it is a threat and removing it is the fundamental solution. But we should also have symptomatic treatment for making the world of today safer.
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel#Lexicology
I live right in the middle of his path of destruction. My wife crossed that street not 10 minutes before the attack. This isn't a hypothetical to us anymore.
Ideologies that denigrate specific groups of people will always have fringes that decide it's okay to murder those people. We cannot, as a society, tolerate these groups. I don't like the word 'terrorist' because it's mostly used as a means for governments to be excused for abusing rights. But I also don't think government should sit idly by, watching as a such an ideology grows.