Health ministry warns of vaccine's side effects (Japan)(www3.nhk.or.jp)
www3.nhk.or.jp
Health ministry warns of vaccine's side effects (Japan)
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20211204_12/
43 comments
The use of "males" is common in medical literature. This probably is an evidence that the report is prepared by a medical writer instead of a journalist which gives more credence to its veracity.
By itself this is a very boring article with very little information but something that bureaucrats need to write or something like that.
By itself this is a very boring article with very little information but something that bureaucrats need to write or something like that.
There is nothing new about the vaccine in this report. Only a change in the labeling in Japan. Frankly, even for the Japanese this is not that interesting of a development, let alone internationally.
Here is a US CDC page on the subject https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/my...
I just got a booster over the weekend, and I can't tell you if this was listed in the consent form I skipped through.
> It uses "males" instead of "men" in the image caption. That's very "Reddit-y" and not how journalists write.
Using male/female instead of men/women is standard in medical writing.
Here is a US CDC page on the subject https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/my...
I just got a booster over the weekend, and I can't tell you if this was listed in the consent form I skipped through.
> It uses "males" instead of "men" in the image caption. That's very "Reddit-y" and not how journalists write.
Using male/female instead of men/women is standard in medical writing.
Germany's Paul Ehrlich Institut (Germn federal agency, medical regulatory body and research institution for vaccines and biomedicines) periodically publishes vaccine security reports [1]. In the latest security report for Jan-Sep 2021 [2] (German only), it states in chapter 7.1.2 table 5 the rate of Myo-/Perikarditis per 100,000 vaccine doses of Pfizer (Corminaty) and Moderna (Spikevax) in different age groups:
11.41/100000 for age group 12-17 (based on 2 reports, hence unconfident)
11.71/100000 for age group 18-29
[1] https://www.pei.de/DE/newsroom/dossier/coronavirus/coronavir...
[2] https://www.pei.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/newsroom/dossiers...
11.41/100000 for age group 12-17 (based on 2 reports, hence unconfident)
11.71/100000 for age group 18-29
[1] https://www.pei.de/DE/newsroom/dossier/coronavirus/coronavir...
[2] https://www.pei.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/newsroom/dossiers...
From Yahoo Japan:
https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/c737f540fd3ae5a6b170ceb807...
The original seems to come from the Kyodo agency, but they don't have published it in english as far as I've seen.
There's a video making rounds too but it looks a bit suspicious.
The original seems to come from the Kyodo agency, but they don't have published it in english as far as I've seen.
There's a video making rounds too but it looks a bit suspicious.
> I'm reluctant to call bullshit on it, but
it's not because you can't find something in English that it does not exist.
it's not because you can't find something in English that it does not exist.
One of the amazing things about Google is that I can search in English and it'll actually search for things in every other language as well. So no, not that.
You can find a lot of hits if you use the following japanese headline: 新型コロナ ワクチン 心筋炎「重大な副反応」 厚労省、警戒度上げ
Among them this one: https://mainichi.jp/articles/20211204/ddm/012/040/084000c
Which seems from a major japanese newspaper if I'm not mistaken: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainichi_Shimbun
Among them this one: https://mainichi.jp/articles/20211204/ddm/012/040/084000c
Which seems from a major japanese newspaper if I'm not mistaken: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainichi_Shimbun
> you'd think an announcement from the health minister of G8 country would make more headlines.
The people that pay for the headlines are not interested in this news.
The people that pay for the headlines are not interested in this news.
Using the traditional question “cui bono” (to whom is it a benefit?), why would such a thing be faked?
why would such a thing be faked
It's impossible to answer a question like that without sounding like an Internet nutjob, but intelligence forces around the world have been tracking disinformation campaigns about vaccines, politics, etc for a long time. Here's a reputable source from this year - https://www.wsj.com/articles/russian-disinformation-campaign...
The actual purpose of them is beyond me. I simply don't know why Russia, or China, or any nation state would do that sort of thing. It does happen though, so no doubt they have their reasons. "Because they can" maybe.
It's impossible to answer a question like that without sounding like an Internet nutjob, but intelligence forces around the world have been tracking disinformation campaigns about vaccines, politics, etc for a long time. Here's a reputable source from this year - https://www.wsj.com/articles/russian-disinformation-campaign...
The actual purpose of them is beyond me. I simply don't know why Russia, or China, or any nation state would do that sort of thing. It does happen though, so no doubt they have their reasons. "Because they can" maybe.
Well, at least there is one country willing to take this seriously.
Whether by 'this' you mean vaccine side effects or free scientific inquiry barely matters. It is refreshing to see.
I don't understand how we don't have a clearly set control group in every single country where there are vaccination programs. Instead of that it's all anecdotes about Romania cases going up because of low vaccination rates (until the cases started to go down, then it disappeared from the news).
Ethics. It is routine to terminate a medical trial early when the results are so clear that you know you are harming the participants by continuing; wheather that harm is by negative effects on the treatment group, or depriving the control group of effective treatment.
Further, once you have an effective treatment, placebo controlled trials become unethical. You must compare your new treatment to the current standard of care.
Further, once you have an effective treatment, placebo controlled trials become unethical. You must compare your new treatment to the current standard of care.
That seems like a terrible idea for a rushed treatment during a global pandemic. If anything we need as much accurate and scientifically sound information as possible, if we want to make sensible decisions.
However you will probably be downvoted here and shutdown somewhere else just by stating this reasonable fact. The times we live in…
If you look at the Pfizer trials, (the scientific one, not the fact they were taken to court a few times and paid a pretty penny in compensations), their results are hardly “so clear”. 1 person died of covid in the control group, and 0 in the vaccinated group. If you know your statistics, the 95% or so positive outcome is due to relative and not absolute difference.
The trial was not designed to test the efficacy against death. It was designed primarily to test against confirmed covid-19 infection, with a secondary goal of testing against severe disease.
I don't have any insight into their motives, but that's not the trial they performed. The only time blanket testing occurred was to make sure no one in the vaccinated group was going to get counted as a breakthrough case when they got covid before full vaccination. Otherwise they only tested participants when they presented with symptoms, thus "these data do not address whether vaccination prevents asymptomatic infection" [0]. Accordingly, it was not testing Covid-19 infection except to the extent that it presented significant symptoms. The trial also didn't address (not clear how it could have) your ability to keep passing the virus along once vaccinated.
[0] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577 (see p 2612 of attached pdf).
[0] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577 (see p 2612 of attached pdf).
> Ethics. It is routine to terminate a medical trial early when the results are so clear that you know you are harming the participants by continuing;
Except that plenty of people already decided they don't want to vaccinate, so why not to ask them to participate? Of course a double-blind study would be unethical.
> once you have an effective treatment, placebo controlled trials become unethical
But this is a vaccine, not a treatment. And given the scale of vaccination, wouldn't it make sense to have a control group for analyzing long-term effects? Yes, I heard many times that long-term effects are "unlikely," but the tiny possibility becomes significant at scale.
Except that plenty of people already decided they don't want to vaccinate, so why not to ask them to participate? Of course a double-blind study would be unethical.
> once you have an effective treatment, placebo controlled trials become unethical
But this is a vaccine, not a treatment. And given the scale of vaccination, wouldn't it make sense to have a control group for analyzing long-term effects? Yes, I heard many times that long-term effects are "unlikely," but the tiny possibility becomes significant at scale.
plenty countries have given out warnings and adapted vaccination protocols because of this already, so I'm not sure what you are talking about?
He's talking about the mass deception by crony-capitalists with hands on the controls of the us government. Acknowledgment of only one opinion of truth has been rather blatant here in the states.
You've suffered some pretty bad deception if you think this is somehow news only Japan is taking serious and everybody else is suppressing, yes.
There are many opinions. Not all opinions carry, or should carry the same weight. Phrased more specifically, not all opinions should gain the same credence.
For example, we know the vaccines have side-effects, including these inflammation issues in young men (biologically male). We also know that unvaccinated people who actually contract COVID-19 and suffer a severe course (hospitalization) are anywhere from two to four times more likely to die within a year of hospitalization from all-cause mortality than those who've been vaccinated or never contracted COVID-19.
Given what we know, Bayesian reasoning should have us update our credence in the opinion that says you should get vaccinated, that you should wear masks indoors, and that you should observe rules of physical distancing if possible.
That these reasons happen to line up with crony-capitalist agendas is sad but coincidental. My opinion (attach whatever credence you like to it) is that this simply means we are being drastically overcharged for the vaccines, but still need them.
For example, we know the vaccines have side-effects, including these inflammation issues in young men (biologically male). We also know that unvaccinated people who actually contract COVID-19 and suffer a severe course (hospitalization) are anywhere from two to four times more likely to die within a year of hospitalization from all-cause mortality than those who've been vaccinated or never contracted COVID-19.
Given what we know, Bayesian reasoning should have us update our credence in the opinion that says you should get vaccinated, that you should wear masks indoors, and that you should observe rules of physical distancing if possible.
That these reasons happen to line up with crony-capitalist agendas is sad but coincidental. My opinion (attach whatever credence you like to it) is that this simply means we are being drastically overcharged for the vaccines, but still need them.
> Not all opinions carry, or should carry the same weight.
In a proper capitalist economy, they should, and every consumer should be free to evaluate every opinion independently. I'm glad that I can buy the holy bible, the selfish gene, the communist manifesto, and 1984 all within the same bookstore. My argument is that reputation and credence needs to be decentralized. A group of extremists should be allowed to give credence to whatever thoughts they wish, but they should not be silenced for having opinions that disagree with the state.
I don't doubt the science, that getting as many people vaccinated is the better solution in a classic trolley problem for saving the most lives in a pandemic, but silencing of alternative thought is far more problematic for society. If people don't want to take a magic pill that can prevent them from dying, it should not be the state's job to shove it down peoples throats. If people don't want to believe the world is round, the state should not ban books saying the earth is flat. Opinions regardless of whether or not they are right should be allowed to exist. At the end of the day the responsibility of determining truth should be on the consumer.
> That these reasons happen to line up with crony-capitalist agendas is sad but coincidental.
What I'm saying is that it should not be in the state's agenda to align with the agendas of the highest bidder. It may be coincidental, but even you as a statistics person should be able to see that these coincidences happen far more than it should.
I'm not arguing against science. I'm trying to get people like you to understand that crony-capitalism degrades the quality of the health service sector as well as the operation of the economy, and that trading away that freedom of speech to control the actions of others is detrimental to society.
In a proper capitalist economy, they should, and every consumer should be free to evaluate every opinion independently. I'm glad that I can buy the holy bible, the selfish gene, the communist manifesto, and 1984 all within the same bookstore. My argument is that reputation and credence needs to be decentralized. A group of extremists should be allowed to give credence to whatever thoughts they wish, but they should not be silenced for having opinions that disagree with the state.
I don't doubt the science, that getting as many people vaccinated is the better solution in a classic trolley problem for saving the most lives in a pandemic, but silencing of alternative thought is far more problematic for society. If people don't want to take a magic pill that can prevent them from dying, it should not be the state's job to shove it down peoples throats. If people don't want to believe the world is round, the state should not ban books saying the earth is flat. Opinions regardless of whether or not they are right should be allowed to exist. At the end of the day the responsibility of determining truth should be on the consumer.
> That these reasons happen to line up with crony-capitalist agendas is sad but coincidental.
What I'm saying is that it should not be in the state's agenda to align with the agendas of the highest bidder. It may be coincidental, but even you as a statistics person should be able to see that these coincidences happen far more than it should.
I'm not arguing against science. I'm trying to get people like you to understand that crony-capitalism degrades the quality of the health service sector as well as the operation of the economy, and that trading away that freedom of speech to control the actions of others is detrimental to society.
People like me understand full well that crony-capitalism is a boat anchor around the necks of the drowning in a republican democracy. Nor did I ever say that people shouldn't be free to consume any opinion, or hold their own as they see fit. No one, however, is entitled to their own facts, and some opinions are worth less than others.
Oh, you havent heard of the OSHA yet?
https://www.osha.gov/coronavirus/faqs#reporting
> Are adverse reactions to the COVID-19 vaccine recordable on the OSHA recordkeeping log?
> DOL and OSHA, as well as other federal agencies, are working diligently to encourage COVID-19 vaccinations. OSHA does not wish to have any appearance of discouraging workers from receiving COVID-19 vaccination, and also does not wish to disincentivize employers' vaccination efforts. As a result, OSHA will not enforce 29 CFR 1904's recording requirements to require any employers to record worker side effects from COVID-19 vaccination at least through May 2022. We will reevaluate the agency’s position at that time to determine the best course of action moving forward.
You are in good hands.
https://www.osha.gov/coronavirus/faqs#reporting
> Are adverse reactions to the COVID-19 vaccine recordable on the OSHA recordkeeping log?
> DOL and OSHA, as well as other federal agencies, are working diligently to encourage COVID-19 vaccinations. OSHA does not wish to have any appearance of discouraging workers from receiving COVID-19 vaccination, and also does not wish to disincentivize employers' vaccination efforts. As a result, OSHA will not enforce 29 CFR 1904's recording requirements to require any employers to record worker side effects from COVID-19 vaccination at least through May 2022. We will reevaluate the agency’s position at that time to determine the best course of action moving forward.
You are in good hands.
In my opinion you’re taking something completely reasonable and making it seem nefarious.
They are removing the requirement, not the ability to report.
Do you believe it makes sense for companies to be required to report sore arms, headaches or tiredness, all common and unremarkable side-effects during a massive vaccination campaign?
They are removing the requirement, not the ability to report.
Do you believe it makes sense for companies to be required to report sore arms, headaches or tiredness, all common and unremarkable side-effects during a massive vaccination campaign?
> They are removing the requirement, not the ability to report.
Removing the requirement for one of the most innovative (therefore untested) treatments ever. Sure, what could go wrong? I would not bet on naively trusting in Big Pharma as a good strategy. It's not like they were very ethical actors in the first place.
Gotta love btw HN people complaining about regulatory capture when it comes to Boing and the FAA, but when it comes to vaccines being blindly pushed by the FDA that's all peachy. The amount of brainwashing is impressive.
Removing the requirement for one of the most innovative (therefore untested) treatments ever. Sure, what could go wrong? I would not bet on naively trusting in Big Pharma as a good strategy. It's not like they were very ethical actors in the first place.
Gotta love btw HN people complaining about regulatory capture when it comes to Boing and the FAA, but when it comes to vaccines being blindly pushed by the FDA that's all peachy. The amount of brainwashing is impressive.
Quite a different thing than pretending that a country doing something weeks after others have reacted is the only one to care.
Not too familiar with the US system (why would a workplace regulation agency be responsible for vaccine side effects anyways?), but e.g. the US CDC also has put out information about this weeks ago. But your comment is specific criticism, that's good and not an obviously untrue over-exaggeration.
Not too familiar with the US system (why would a workplace regulation agency be responsible for vaccine side effects anyways?), but e.g. the US CDC also has put out information about this weeks ago. But your comment is specific criticism, that's good and not an obviously untrue over-exaggeration.
As far as I know, virtually every serious medical forum, whether it's pharmaceutical companies, health ministries, WHO, groups of hospitals, universities etc are constantly researching, monitoring and reporting on side-effects and taking this very seriously. What makes you say they aren't?
Japan's health ministry just reported a 15 per million, or 0.0015% risk of inflammation when taking Pfizer. This doesn't change their policy position, which is to recommend and urge as many people as possible to get the vaccine, as the risks of contracting covid and its effects far outweigh this 0.0015% sideeffect risk.
Japan's health ministry just reported a 15 per million, or 0.0015% risk of inflammation when taking Pfizer. This doesn't change their policy position, which is to recommend and urge as many people as possible to get the vaccine, as the risks of contracting covid and its effects far outweigh this 0.0015% sideeffect risk.
> side-effects and taking this very seriously. What makes you say they aren't?
because they are advocating for injecting 5 years old who have literally a negative benefit-risk ratio from the vaccine. You don't smell corruption much yet?
because they are advocating for injecting 5 years old who have literally a negative benefit-risk ratio from the vaccine. You don't smell corruption much yet?
My reading so far has been different. Indeed children are far less likely to be at risk, yet several dozen kids have died due to Covid already, and a larger group has complications from long-covid. The studies in contrast show no major side effects of this scale in children, certainly not deadly side effects.
To link this to corruption is a radical idea that requires proof.
https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-vaccine-for-ages-5-t...
Then there's a public health discussion that goes beyond the individual. Even if a measure has no benefit to an individual, but large benefit to the public, and very rare side effects, it makes total sense from a public policy perspective to encourage the measure. Taxes for example are a direct negative measure for individuals, but a very beneficial public measure that will in turn indirectly benefits individuals. I'll grant you that you can argue against making measures mandatory that are negative to the individual but positive to the public, but to encourage it as a voluntary measure of course makes total sense, and that's all the CDC has so far done for ages 5-11.
Given the exponential pandemic potential of Covid-19, one cannot simply exclude entire groups of people (e.g. young people) from access to vaccines and also expect Covid-19 to be mitigated as a public health disaster. Nor can you in the case of excluding a large group (young people), expect new and more dangerous variants to stop popping up. That's a public health matter, which indirectly also translates to negative effects on children's lives, e.g. parents who are stick or die, parents who lose jobs/businesses/income, kids who need to be homeschooled and fall behind academically and socially etc. That is why it is crucial for there to be wide public access to vaccines for all who wish to take it, as long as it is safe. These vaccines were tested and were found to be safe. The data from the study is public, I haven't seen anyone credible argue otherwise.
To link this to corruption is a radical idea that requires proof.
https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-vaccine-for-ages-5-t...
Then there's a public health discussion that goes beyond the individual. Even if a measure has no benefit to an individual, but large benefit to the public, and very rare side effects, it makes total sense from a public policy perspective to encourage the measure. Taxes for example are a direct negative measure for individuals, but a very beneficial public measure that will in turn indirectly benefits individuals. I'll grant you that you can argue against making measures mandatory that are negative to the individual but positive to the public, but to encourage it as a voluntary measure of course makes total sense, and that's all the CDC has so far done for ages 5-11.
Given the exponential pandemic potential of Covid-19, one cannot simply exclude entire groups of people (e.g. young people) from access to vaccines and also expect Covid-19 to be mitigated as a public health disaster. Nor can you in the case of excluding a large group (young people), expect new and more dangerous variants to stop popping up. That's a public health matter, which indirectly also translates to negative effects on children's lives, e.g. parents who are stick or die, parents who lose jobs/businesses/income, kids who need to be homeschooled and fall behind academically and socially etc. That is why it is crucial for there to be wide public access to vaccines for all who wish to take it, as long as it is safe. These vaccines were tested and were found to be safe. The data from the study is public, I haven't seen anyone credible argue otherwise.
For general average healthy kids out there, at some point you are adding an addition risk, albeit a small one, over the general Covid risk they already face.
There are certainly kids who have additional health factors that make them a higher risk for severe Covid illness if contracted, and I think it makes sense to consider vaccination there for best protection. However, it’s reasonable to me that some parents might express reluctancy at vaccinating a healthy child who is at such a statistically low risk of severe Covid disease especially since the vaccine does not necessarily protect against infection, instead seeming to provide much more benefit after infection at preventing severe disease.
I think the likelihood of severe disease with no vaccine and severe disease with vaccine in healthy children might be so low it’s statistically insignificant.
There are certainly kids who have additional health factors that make them a higher risk for severe Covid illness if contracted, and I think it makes sense to consider vaccination there for best protection. However, it’s reasonable to me that some parents might express reluctancy at vaccinating a healthy child who is at such a statistically low risk of severe Covid disease especially since the vaccine does not necessarily protect against infection, instead seeming to provide much more benefit after infection at preventing severe disease.
I think the likelihood of severe disease with no vaccine and severe disease with vaccine in healthy children might be so low it’s statistically insignificant.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29441794
It is just stress...
It is just stress...
- It uses "males" instead of "men" in the image caption. That's very "Reddit-y" and not how journalists write.
- It doesn't mention the name of the Japanese Health Minister at all.
- The only other link on the web about it is a YouTube video of a woman reading out the article verbatim (https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20211204_12/).
- If you search for Moderna with any of the cited numbers Google returns nothing.
I'm reluctant to call bullshit on it, but you'd think an announcement from the health minister of G8 country would make more headlines.