Does anyone here use Dvorak?
It is a keyboard layout that i've been using for the past 9 months. I think it is a good layout for me. what about you?
19 comments
While Dvorak is a good layout, in 2021 I would always advocate using Colemak instead (at least for English typists). Colemak is:
- easier to transition from QWERTY since it changes fewer keys (particularly the QAZXCVB shortcut keys)
- scores marginally better than Dvorak in different models, e.g. http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?colemak
That said, if you're already this deep into Dvorak, I don't think the gains are worth the effort involved in another switch.
- easier to transition from QWERTY since it changes fewer keys (particularly the QAZXCVB shortcut keys)
- scores marginally better than Dvorak in different models, e.g. http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?colemak
That said, if you're already this deep into Dvorak, I don't think the gains are worth the effort involved in another switch.
I used Dvorak for about 15 years and loved it. There are probably incrementally better layouts now, but Dvorak was available when I switched. I found it very much more comfortable than QWERTY. Perhaps a little faster. But ending the pain in my hands was the big win. I would strongly encourage others to switch to an improved layout.
That said, I switched back to QWERTY about 5 years ago when Parkinson's stopped me from touch typing with my right hand. Now I type with my left hand and one finger on the right. I have to look at the keyboard. I use too many different keyboards to practically relabel the keys. It didn't take more than a few weeks to re-learn QWERTY on the left hand. My hands hurt more now, but at least keyboards are better now than they used to be.
That said, I switched back to QWERTY about 5 years ago when Parkinson's stopped me from touch typing with my right hand. Now I type with my left hand and one finger on the right. I have to look at the keyboard. I use too many different keyboards to practically relabel the keys. It didn't take more than a few weeks to re-learn QWERTY on the left hand. My hands hurt more now, but at least keyboards are better now than they used to be.
How hard was the mental brain remapping/muscle memory remapping?
Much of my work history involved lots of travel and working on sites and it wouldn't have been realistic to try and adopt it. It was tough enough working on French keyboards. AZERTY?
I did visit a client in Chicago once and sat down at the guys desk to find a Dvorak keyboard on a solaris desktop. After 2 minutes of finger picking and eye scanning i kind of picked it up.
I also largely typed on US QWERTY keyboards for a couple of years as thats what we had at Sun, to the point when i went back to GB layouts i just have a switch that when i type SHIFT-3 i take note of whether i get a # or a £ and my brain seems to auto remap on the spot
Much of my work history involved lots of travel and working on sites and it wouldn't have been realistic to try and adopt it. It was tough enough working on French keyboards. AZERTY?
I did visit a client in Chicago once and sat down at the guys desk to find a Dvorak keyboard on a solaris desktop. After 2 minutes of finger picking and eye scanning i kind of picked it up.
I also largely typed on US QWERTY keyboards for a couple of years as thats what we had at Sun, to the point when i went back to GB layouts i just have a switch that when i type SHIFT-3 i take note of whether i get a # or a £ and my brain seems to auto remap on the spot
I found it easier to learn ten-finger touch typing with a whole new layout, than to unlearn years of terrible habits with QWERTY. Took about a week to easily exceed my QWERTY speed.
As far as I can tell, it has not affected my speed with QWERTY at all. Using QWERTY is slightly frustrating as I'm about half as fast as with Dvorak, but I still do the same old annoying 30 - 40 wpm with my four-finger peck technique that I couldn't unlearn.
It does take a few seconds sometimes to adjust when I switch layouts, but I can hop between them pretty easily. The two never really interfere with each other. With Ctrl-C etc., I seem to associate that with a letter, not a physical movement, and it maps too. (Video games are a different question. I usually end up remapping everything.)
As far as I can tell, it has not affected my speed with QWERTY at all. Using QWERTY is slightly frustrating as I'm about half as fast as with Dvorak, but I still do the same old annoying 30 - 40 wpm with my four-finger peck technique that I couldn't unlearn.
It does take a few seconds sometimes to adjust when I switch layouts, but I can hop between them pretty easily. The two never really interfere with each other. With Ctrl-C etc., I seem to associate that with a letter, not a physical movement, and it maps too. (Video games are a different question. I usually end up remapping everything.)
interesting, thanks
I've used Dvorak for the past ~20 years.
When I first started, I found it easier to learn touch-typing in Dvorak because I couldn't cheat and look at the keys.
It's great when I'm using my own devices, but is irritating when I have to use someone else's computer, so I have to suddenly become a hunt-and-peck loser again.
On the positive, nobody else can use my computer either. :-P
I've gone the whole hog and use an Ergodox as well, for maximum non-interoperability.
When I first started, I found it easier to learn touch-typing in Dvorak because I couldn't cheat and look at the keys.
It's great when I'm using my own devices, but is irritating when I have to use someone else's computer, so I have to suddenly become a hunt-and-peck loser again.
On the positive, nobody else can use my computer either. :-P
I've gone the whole hog and use an Ergodox as well, for maximum non-interoperability.
I've used it since 2001. IMO, it doesn't matter what layout you use, the key is learning to touch type properly if the goal is speed. Some layouts are probably truly awful, but the primary ones are all about as good as each other. The main pro, for me, of Dvorak is that it actually feels a lot more natural with Emacs' default key bindings (my primary text editor) than QWERTY ever did.
Muscle memory is a strange thing. I tried picking up Colemak last year and stopped because I made no progress. I then tried again recently and started right where I left off, at a slightly higher WPM.
It's odd that I could just continue progress that quickly and there's been absolutely no problem switching between keyboard layouts.
It's odd that I could just continue progress that quickly and there's been absolutely no problem switching between keyboard layouts.
This was basically my experience in learning morse. Stopped after I somehow couldn't learn the next letter properly.
Come back a year later, and I was way better at it --- with no practice whatsoever in between.
Come back a year later, and I was way better at it --- with no practice whatsoever in between.
I switched to Dvorak in college because hunt and punch was too slow to write all the papers I needed to write, and I kept looking at the keyboard with qwerty.
I still remember the day when I lay on the grass outside my dorm room with my laptop on my stomach typing a paper while looking at clouds. It was wonderful.
I still remember the day when I lay on the grass outside my dorm room with my laptop on my stomach typing a paper while looking at clouds. It was wonderful.
I lerned to touch type using Dvorak in 2001. I’m useless at Qwerty! If it’s the only way you can realistically learn to touch type, stick with it. Absolutely no RSI - but I might just be lucky. I don’t have Emacs pinky either… :)
The hardest part of learning dvorak is losing the ability to type Crtl + C, Crtl + V with one hand.
I recommend getting a gaming mouse were you can remap hot keys to spare buttons.
I recommend getting a gaming mouse were you can remap hot keys to spare buttons.
Yep, started in ‘96 or ‘97. There are layouts that might be marginally better, but Dvorak hits a sweet spot by being ubiquitous and extremely good.
The Hell No. Because it is for Ænglish, which is spelled wrongly and illogically.
In most (perhaps all) languages, assuming they are spelled phonetically, a syllable-based organization would be best. In most (perhaps all) languages syllables are mostly consonant-wovels-sequences.
So the bestest keyboard would be: consonant on the left and vowels on the right. The vertical organization would be: most common syllables are on the same horizontal line and the mostest common on the top (or center?) line, but those details depend of course on the particular language.
In most (perhaps all) languages, assuming they are spelled phonetically, a syllable-based organization would be best. In most (perhaps all) languages syllables are mostly consonant-wovels-sequences.
So the bestest keyboard would be: consonant on the left and vowels on the right. The vertical organization would be: most common syllables are on the same horizontal line and the mostest common on the top (or center?) line, but those details depend of course on the particular language.
On that note: Most common letters and syllables form a logical tree structure. If you are multi-lingual, it might even make sense to switch the layout with the language. And even more, it might even be that the keyboard learns from you and organizes layout accordingly. And next step is of course that the keyboard organizes itself all the time as you write, instead of giving suggestions on the screen. But nothing to do with Ænglish, as mentioned.
I switch between Dvorak and Programmer Dvorak depending on if I’m writing code or not. Helped keeping my RSI in check for the last 8 years.
I've been using it since 2016 and I love it. I guess you could say I'm deep in the rabbit hole of Dvorak.
I can switch between Dvorak and QWERTY in just seconds.
I can spot when someone else is a Dvorak typist based on their typos: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29407601
I have a custom Dvorak layout for any ortholinear keyboard with at least 36 keys: https://github.com/1MachineElf/qmk_firmware/tree/_sb4dv/keyb...
Sometimes I go on odd rants about how common shortcuts can be easier to use in Dvorak in combination with a left-handed mouse: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26796214
So how did you go about learning it? My pathway was GNU Typist: https://www.gnu.org/savannah-checkouts/gnu/gtypist/gtypist.h...
What made you want to learn it? For me, the Dymaxion map in this XKCD cartoon appealed to me because I liked XML and shoes with toes (like Vibrams): https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/977:_Map_Projecti...
I can switch between Dvorak and QWERTY in just seconds.
I can spot when someone else is a Dvorak typist based on their typos: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29407601
I have a custom Dvorak layout for any ortholinear keyboard with at least 36 keys: https://github.com/1MachineElf/qmk_firmware/tree/_sb4dv/keyb...
Sometimes I go on odd rants about how common shortcuts can be easier to use in Dvorak in combination with a left-handed mouse: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26796214
So how did you go about learning it? My pathway was GNU Typist: https://www.gnu.org/savannah-checkouts/gnu/gtypist/gtypist.h...
What made you want to learn it? For me, the Dymaxion map in this XKCD cartoon appealed to me because I liked XML and shoes with toes (like Vibrams): https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/977:_Map_Projecti...
I use it for over 14 years.
Because I was showing signs of carpal tunnel pain.
I use it using a Split keyboard,
I use it using a Split keyboard,
Uh, we all use Colemak.