Types of Deceptive Design(deceptive.design)
deceptive.design
Types of Deceptive Design
https://www.deceptive.design/types
38 comments
> On that note, if you dislike sleazy dark patterns, stay away from Audible.
What, having to confirm 6 times in a row is a dark pattern now? heh.
Amazon.com is pretty bad at this too.
What, having to confirm 6 times in a row is a dark pattern now? heh.
Amazon.com is pretty bad at this too.
Network Solutions is probably worse :angry:
"wait 5 days for us to actually transfer your domain name"
"oh, and you have 3 remaining logins (not attempts, logins) before we need something extra from you"
I don't remember what that something extra was (probably more personal info), only that I didn't stick around once I transferred away my domain name. Used up all three logins to do it, too.
"oh, and you have 3 remaining logins (not attempts, logins) before we need something extra from you"
I don't remember what that something extra was (probably more personal info), only that I didn't stick around once I transferred away my domain name. Used up all three logins to do it, too.
Exactly what I'm complaining about. Their whole business model looks like a dark pattern
I have just signed up to Audible so I was a bit worried about this. However, on my mobile device I went to my membership settings and it said "If you signed up for Audible through Amazon [which I did] then you will find the account settings on the Audible site". I navigated there, to "View membership details", and there's a link that plainly says "Cancel membership".
Now, maybe the US version is different, and uses dark patterns, but for me it seems very easy.
Now, maybe the US version is different, and uses dark patterns, but for me it seems very easy.
I love how a product owner for a job board I used to work at insisted that we keep the 'I am not interested' button super hidden. He thought that would make people click 'I am interested' more as if that's what career choices are pushed by.
Ultimately, I think it might work as he says, but the metrics just showed a drop in 'engagement' cause people would close the page without clicking, so we had to add the button back up because the higher-ups thought 'engagement' was more important.
Ultimately, I think it might work as he says, but the metrics just showed a drop in 'engagement' cause people would close the page without clicking, so we had to add the button back up because the higher-ups thought 'engagement' was more important.
What makes some dark design patterns possible is linear web workflows
based on several pages of chained forms. At each step the user becomes
more invested in the process. Egregious steps appear last when the
user has a sunk cost. For some products it may take hours to work
through the forms, saving and returning after finding or creating some
data.
If users were able to fast forward and see the whole workflow, and what will be asked for on later pages, many would not even start.
Without a very good technical reason there should be a first page overview or summary of all information the process will require. Any contractual data should legally be offered up front.
Of note, an audio-book publisher called Findaway really pissed me off. It took me many hours to fill in their workflow, and only on the last page was I able to read the actual contract. At the end, after a blank page IIRC, was a lonely clause assigning rights to Apple to use my voice recordings for training their machine learning. I emailed the company and told then this was unacceptable. They sheepishly suggested I could just sign the contract and then "opt out" of distributing with Apple. Needless to say that was the end of that conversation and my interest in Findaway. I had to take the hit of losing several hours of my time.
If users were able to fast forward and see the whole workflow, and what will be asked for on later pages, many would not even start.
Without a very good technical reason there should be a first page overview or summary of all information the process will require. Any contractual data should legally be offered up front.
Of note, an audio-book publisher called Findaway really pissed me off. It took me many hours to fill in their workflow, and only on the last page was I able to read the actual contract. At the end, after a blank page IIRC, was a lonely clause assigning rights to Apple to use my voice recordings for training their machine learning. I emailed the company and told then this was unacceptable. They sheepishly suggested I could just sign the contract and then "opt out" of distributing with Apple. Needless to say that was the end of that conversation and my interest in Findaway. I had to take the hit of losing several hours of my time.
TurboTax asked me about 4 times to spend money on their 'upgraded' service, which is why this will be the last year I use TurboTax.
You are missing so much more.
Ecommerce: "Timed" offers or "low/limited" stock for FOMO, fake customer reviews for validation - outright made up (Shopify) or from another product (Amazon), real-time "purchases" ticker, priming, etc.
[1] Dark patterns list: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27328863
Below is an example of Disney using priming for deceptive marketing - these are used in ecommerce in a diff. manner
If you watched the movie, you know that it has nothing to do with the other Avengers, yet this ad makes imprints Avenger's images at the start to increase the probability of people watching the film. PS: The end was just to gather interest for a sequel
[2] Shang-Chi promo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pgdfDDdYpo
[3] Priming: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priming_(psychology)
Ecommerce: "Timed" offers or "low/limited" stock for FOMO, fake customer reviews for validation - outright made up (Shopify) or from another product (Amazon), real-time "purchases" ticker, priming, etc.
[1] Dark patterns list: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27328863
Below is an example of Disney using priming for deceptive marketing - these are used in ecommerce in a diff. manner
If you watched the movie, you know that it has nothing to do with the other Avengers, yet this ad makes imprints Avenger's images at the start to increase the probability of people watching the film. PS: The end was just to gather interest for a sequel
[2] Shang-Chi promo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pgdfDDdYpo
[3] Priming: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priming_(psychology)
I'll bite on this one, I'm not sure Shang-Chi is deceptive. I've seen a lot of the Avengers movies but I am not an Avengers fan, I've just been around fans.
Maybe I can't see the deception because I'm not privy to what makes an Avenger and Avenger, but it seems like from the movies I've seen an Avenger is typically a superhero in the Marvel comic universe.
They are technically showing other superheros in the Marvel comic universe. I hadn't heard of Shang-chi, but apparently they show up for the first time in a Marvel comic in '73.
So... I get that Disney as a whole is a company that uses dark patterns and therefore has lost the good faith 'we don't use dark patterns' moral heirarchy, but I'm not sure I think that this deceptive marketing has a huge difference.
I could very well be wrong, I wonder what the populations of Avengers fans but not Marvel fans is compared to Avengers and Marvel fans is.
Maybe I can't see the deception because I'm not privy to what makes an Avenger and Avenger, but it seems like from the movies I've seen an Avenger is typically a superhero in the Marvel comic universe.
They are technically showing other superheros in the Marvel comic universe. I hadn't heard of Shang-chi, but apparently they show up for the first time in a Marvel comic in '73.
So... I get that Disney as a whole is a company that uses dark patterns and therefore has lost the good faith 'we don't use dark patterns' moral heirarchy, but I'm not sure I think that this deceptive marketing has a huge difference.
I could very well be wrong, I wonder what the populations of Avengers fans but not Marvel fans is compared to Avengers and Marvel fans is.
"Those that came before us..." refers to Shang Chi's family tree, not the Avengers, that is the deceptive message here. It leverages fan's loyalty to sell a non-established hero.
Plus, depending on your interpretation, it might sound like Shang Chi is a combination or is more powerful than its "predecessors": "made us who we are today"
The key with priming is that it occurs subtly, without the viewer suspecting its effect on later actions - serving the purpose of a deception, under fans' noses
Plus, depending on your interpretation, it might sound like Shang Chi is a combination or is more powerful than its "predecessors": "made us who we are today"
The key with priming is that it occurs subtly, without the viewer suspecting its effect on later actions - serving the purpose of a deception, under fans' noses
> "Those that came before us..." refers to Shang Chi's family tree, not the Avengers, that is the deceptive message here.
I kinda feel like if you know enough about Marvel to know that that line can refer to the Avengers, you also know enough about Marvel, to know that it doesn't.
I have never seen an Avenger Movie, and I couldn't see this tied in more or less with other Marvel movies than ... I don't know. That one with the black thing that looks like Spawn?
I kinda feel like if you know enough about Marvel to know that that line can refer to the Avengers, you also know enough about Marvel, to know that it doesn't.
I have never seen an Avenger Movie, and I couldn't see this tied in more or less with other Marvel movies than ... I don't know. That one with the black thing that looks like Spawn?
As /u/wsinks pointed out, you could have really picked a better example for "deceptive" priming.
> it has nothing to do with the other Avengers
_Yet_. If you've watched any of the other MCU movies you can easily predict that Shang-Chi will be part of the next lineup of the Avengers. They give you the impression that you will get a Marvel Avenger origin story, and that's what the movie delivers. Nothing deceptive about that. (Apart from that it also has plot connections to Iron Man 2.)
> it has nothing to do with the other Avengers
_Yet_. If you've watched any of the other MCU movies you can easily predict that Shang-Chi will be part of the next lineup of the Avengers. They give you the impression that you will get a Marvel Avenger origin story, and that's what the movie delivers. Nothing deceptive about that. (Apart from that it also has plot connections to Iron Man 2.)
Focus on the specific line delivered on that priming instance, not the Avengers broader story.
Replied above, the difference is subtle and barely noticeable if you don't pay attention - being a fan is a bias.
Replied above, the difference is subtle and barely noticeable if you don't pay attention - being a fan is a bias.
Going through @darkpatterns and @internetofshit on Twitter makes my blood boil. I hope at some point we'll start seeing generic "Don't be an asshole" legislation to cover most of these cases at once instead of just "Click to unsubscribe".
Yes, the legislation is coming, see e.g. https://www.reuters.com/legal/legalindustry/dark-patterns-ne... or is already included in laws like GDPR (the pervasive consent dialogs HN loves to complain about are illegal).
The problem is enforcement. Don't expect anything to change until companies get fined out of existence.
The problem is enforcement. Don't expect anything to change until companies get fined out of existence.
That makes me hopeful. I'm glad that California is doing something about it since many of these companies are based there.
> The problem is enforcement. Don't expect anything to change until companies get fined out of existence.
Smaller companies will certainly continue but Microsoft’s LinkedIn could receive a sizable fine.
> The problem is enforcement. Don't expect anything to change until companies get fined out of existence.
Smaller companies will certainly continue but Microsoft’s LinkedIn could receive a sizable fine.
Just ran into one at the airport.
We had a couple of bags that were slightly overweight, one by 5 lbs, one by 2 lbs. Often they will let these small overages slide, especially for high “status” frequent flyers such as moi.
This time the desk agent sentenced us to $100 per bag. With a long line of people behind us, my traveling companion became flustered and said “just pay it”.
I said “No way, it’s pure rent seeking, which they only do when they think you’ll be flustered in front of a crowd. We have an unused baggage allowance, which they could apply to an average weight. They choose to set a high enough penalty that I will seek options. In this case, let’s calmly and deliberately extract the spare fold-up duffel I always carry, shift a few items from both bags, and spend the $200 on champagne and caviar in Paris.”
This was a winning argument, and it was done.
I suppose I could carry a small luggage scale, but they are hardly accurate. Hotels, airports, rental car counters, etc., could provide more accurate ones, but they don’t usually. I usually fly with only carry-on, so it’s not in my sights.
The check-in agent went from “beleaguered jobsworth” to “chuckling co-conspirator” once I explained what was really going on here.
If someone is an insider and can explain convincingly why a slightly heavy bag places a $100 burden on the baggage handling system, I will retract.
As a pricing decision maker for a deadline driven product, we always create a ramp at the end rather than stand up a brick wall. In this case, they could have set a lower fee for the first 5 or 10 lbs over, and I would very likely have paid two $25 fees. By going straight to punitive, no way.
What do we call this practice in the context of the OP? How about “public shaming for minor infractions”? Feh.
We had a couple of bags that were slightly overweight, one by 5 lbs, one by 2 lbs. Often they will let these small overages slide, especially for high “status” frequent flyers such as moi.
This time the desk agent sentenced us to $100 per bag. With a long line of people behind us, my traveling companion became flustered and said “just pay it”.
I said “No way, it’s pure rent seeking, which they only do when they think you’ll be flustered in front of a crowd. We have an unused baggage allowance, which they could apply to an average weight. They choose to set a high enough penalty that I will seek options. In this case, let’s calmly and deliberately extract the spare fold-up duffel I always carry, shift a few items from both bags, and spend the $200 on champagne and caviar in Paris.”
This was a winning argument, and it was done.
I suppose I could carry a small luggage scale, but they are hardly accurate. Hotels, airports, rental car counters, etc., could provide more accurate ones, but they don’t usually. I usually fly with only carry-on, so it’s not in my sights.
The check-in agent went from “beleaguered jobsworth” to “chuckling co-conspirator” once I explained what was really going on here.
If someone is an insider and can explain convincingly why a slightly heavy bag places a $100 burden on the baggage handling system, I will retract.
As a pricing decision maker for a deadline driven product, we always create a ramp at the end rather than stand up a brick wall. In this case, they could have set a lower fee for the first 5 or 10 lbs over, and I would very likely have paid two $25 fees. By going straight to punitive, no way.
What do we call this practice in the context of the OP? How about “public shaming for minor infractions”? Feh.
> If someone is an insider and can explain convincingly why a slightly heavy bag places a $100 burden on the baggage handling system, I will retract.
IIRC, at a specific weight special handling kicks in; not sure if it’s union or OHSA rules but it becomes a two person job.
That doesn’t cost $100, sure, but some of that fee is, as you noted, a deterrent rather than raw cost passed along.
IIRC, at a specific weight special handling kicks in; not sure if it’s union or OHSA rules but it becomes a two person job.
That doesn’t cost $100, sure, but some of that fee is, as you noted, a deterrent rather than raw cost passed along.
> I suppose I could carry a small luggage scale, but they are hardly accurate.
I have a cheap one that's basically an LCD display in a handle with a loop you put on the real handle, and then lift the bag up. It has always seemed plenty good enough, and I've never been accidentally over the limit at the check-in counter.
I have a cheap one that's basically an LCD display in a handle with a loop you put on the real handle, and then lift the bag up. It has always seemed plenty good enough, and I've never been accidentally over the limit at the check-in counter.
there's this thing on linkedin; anytime i search for a job i will be automatically subscribed to a zillion job emails and i have to manually unsub one by one, so annoying.
i guess you could put it as a kind of "taking an action as implicit permission to perform another action", although its not really implicit
i guess you could put it as a kind of "taking an action as implicit permission to perform another action", although its not really implicit
Quora seems especially bad about this too.
You search for something, and then Quora takes that as an invitation to send you a bunch of spam. To make it worse, it seems impossible to control/prevent this through account settings. Opt-out doesn’t work. It got so bad I had to just completely block all email from quora.com.
I still avoid clicking Quora links in search results because of this, even though I’ve blocked email from them. I guess it is a grudge.
The bad thing is, I used to be active on Quora and enjoy its content, but something happened at some point a few years ago, where they became aggressively spammy.
You search for something, and then Quora takes that as an invitation to send you a bunch of spam. To make it worse, it seems impossible to control/prevent this through account settings. Opt-out doesn’t work. It got so bad I had to just completely block all email from quora.com.
I still avoid clicking Quora links in search results because of this, even though I’ve blocked email from them. I guess it is a grudge.
The bad thing is, I used to be active on Quora and enjoy its content, but something happened at some point a few years ago, where they became aggressively spammy.
For at least some locales, you need to sign up with an email address and choose a valid password before Netflix will show they package options and prices.
I’m not sure if that’s a deceptive design or just a downright sleazy one.
I’m not sure if that’s a deceptive design or just a downright sleazy one.
"Hey, this looks like darkpatterns.org. ...oh, it is."
Does anyone know why the author renamed the website? Well, I guess because they are now preferring to use the term "deceptive design", which is new to me... So anyone know why the author suddenly switched terms?
I personally preferred 'dark patterns'.
I personally preferred 'dark patterns'.
>Bait and switch
>You set out to do one thing, but a different, undesirable thing happens instead.
This was back in the day, but I used to always go to IMDB to search for movie details. Inevitably, when I'd go to click on the search box, the site would suddenly get around to loading in a banner in the exact spot, pushing the search box down, and resulting in me inadvertently clicking the banner. I was almost certain it was by design.
This was back in the day, but I used to always go to IMDB to search for movie details. Inevitably, when I'd go to click on the search box, the site would suddenly get around to loading in a banner in the exact spot, pushing the search box down, and resulting in me inadvertently clicking the banner. I was almost certain it was by design.
Requiring answering the same question multiple times (refusing discounted renewals when cancelling, for example) to complete the stated/indicated action.
Good examples include subscription cancellation call center scripts, Reddit's "please use the app" popup, and Twitter's auto-revert to algo timeline after you explicitly selected the revchron one.
Good examples include subscription cancellation call center scripts, Reddit's "please use the app" popup, and Twitter's auto-revert to algo timeline after you explicitly selected the revchron one.
This seems like a nice thing to have badges for. Couldn’t there be a certification programme for ‘dark-pattern free’ websites?
Ah I really love newspaper subscriptions where you can subscribe with a click but in order to cancel you have to personally hand them a picture of bigfoot signed with the blood of your firstborn on a full moon night.
To learn about deceptive design, try to order a flower bouquet online and have it delivered to someone. Then try to figure out how to control costs.
'Tiny close/cancel button surrounded by open/launch button' needs to be added to the list.
No RSS feeds for any of their pages. Really sad.
And no email. They want you to twitter at them. Lol, kids.
And no email. They want you to twitter at them. Lol, kids.
Just encountered this in a major way trying to cancel my Audible subscription - searched for 10-15 mins on both the app and mobile web, there’s an option to temporarily pause, but could not for the life of me figure out how to actually cancel my subscription. Maybe there’s a way on desktop web?
Regardless, pure sleaze tactic, and whenever I encounter it, I definitely never come back, and am sure to give terrible word of mouth. I’m going to cancel anyways, why ruin my perception of your product on the way out?
On that note, if you dislike sleazy dark patterns, stay away from Audible.