Tinnitus Seems Linked with Sleep(theconversation.com)
theconversation.com
Tinnitus Seems Linked with Sleep
https://theconversation.com/tinnitus-seems-linked-with-sleep-understanding-how-could-bring-us-closer-to-finding-a-cure-182711
86 comments
Here’s something better I’ve found to improve on it: you can get a $30 massage gun from Amazon with one of those round soft heads, gently put it to the back of your head where doing the manual exercise above hits with your fingers and run it at the slowest setting. It’s exactly the same thing, and it’s very effective for shutting off tinnitus. I do this when mine gets bad.
I’ve also noticed my tinnitus is inversely proportional to the last night’s sleep quality for me, so the article bears out on an anecdotal standpoint.
I’ve also noticed my tinnitus is inversely proportional to the last night’s sleep quality for me, so the article bears out on an anecdotal standpoint.
WTF tried this and my tinnitus diminished for half a minute. It's back now, but that was interesting.
I think it has to do with how quiet is the environment, as the finger snaps are very loud and drown the tinnitus, but putting on my noise-cancelling headphones without music make it feel louder. Maybe a fan/rain/white noise generator would help people who have trouble sleeping because of tinnitus.
I think it has to do with how quiet is the environment, as the finger snaps are very loud and drown the tinnitus, but putting on my noise-cancelling headphones without music make it feel louder. Maybe a fan/rain/white noise generator would help people who have trouble sleeping because of tinnitus.
Isn't tinnitus part of your inner ear vibrating itself dysfunctionally (normally only moves sound-dependent for protection), and by giving it one large vibration, you're making it do the "protection" thing, stopping the vibrating?
My understanding was more like the Stereocilia at places corresponding to certain frequencies no longer convert motion to signals.
The flick might be a simulation of an impulse signal which covers all frequencies and tricks the brain into thinking that the absent frequencies were also included in the heard impulse.
The flick might be a simulation of an impulse signal which covers all frequencies and tricks the brain into thinking that the absent frequencies were also included in the heard impulse.
Most tinnitus is the subjective kind that doesn’t involve any known physical vibration, it’s just the brain inventing signals. TIL, elsewhere in this thread, that to your point there is also sometimes “objective tinnitus” which is the ear vibrating itself. Mine is the subjective type. There are sound therapies that work for me, temporarily, and the thinking is mainly that hearing tones near the ringing frequencies causes the neurons to send real signal, so that when it stops your brain finally registers that it’s not hearing the tone anymore.
That does not seem like a plausible explanation since the noise does go away and is not persisting. But I'm really curious about why it did work, in the hopes of a permanent solution.
I have pretty loud tinnitus at night but I find it has the same effect as rain on the roof, comforting. I like it when it really roars, I will just drift off then. Didn't realise it could be loud in a way that could wake you up. Its just a hissing squeel roar for me, basically pink noise... the type of thing that puts babies to sleep. I wonder if its anxiety about the tinnitus rather than the sound itself that is disturbing? Or my tinnitus is only really mild.
Are you talking about actual snapping of the fingers or just tapping with the fingers on your skull? “Snapping” is a specific action with a couple of fingers to make a loud “snap” sound. If that is what you mean, I’m not clear how this operation can be performed.
I know this seems like ‘If all else fails ‘hit with lunar boot’, but hit the back of your head pretty hard.
It’s a weird motion so practice with you hand in front of you.
- Hold your right hand in front of you.
- Cross your index finger over your middle finger
- Press your index finger and your middle finger together pretty hard
- Let your index finger slip off the middle finger (You will notice the index finger has quite a bit of power)
- Now place the palms of your hands over their respective ears, covering them completely. Pointing your finger back around your head.
- Repeat the index/middle finger motion above but let the index finger smack the back of your skull (It should sound like a very loud thump)
- Repeat this 40-50 times (Your fingers will likely get tired)
- Remove your hands from your ears and hopefully you will have some relief from the tinnitus (The effectiveness and duration seems to be highly variable from person to person and type of tinnitus)
Good Luck
It’s a weird motion so practice with you hand in front of you.
- Hold your right hand in front of you.
- Cross your index finger over your middle finger
- Press your index finger and your middle finger together pretty hard
- Let your index finger slip off the middle finger (You will notice the index finger has quite a bit of power)
- Now place the palms of your hands over their respective ears, covering them completely. Pointing your finger back around your head.
- Repeat the index/middle finger motion above but let the index finger smack the back of your skull (It should sound like a very loud thump)
- Repeat this 40-50 times (Your fingers will likely get tired)
- Remove your hands from your ears and hopefully you will have some relief from the tinnitus (The effectiveness and duration seems to be highly variable from person to person and type of tinnitus)
Good Luck
Tinnitus is a difficult topic because it’s a catch-all term for several different conditions that cause ear noise. There’s even a category of tinnitus for sounds within the ear that can be objectively heard by someone other than the sufferer - This is known as “objective tinnitus”.
So it's like "anxiety" - a catch-all term when doctors have no clue.
If I were a doctor and I had no clue, I'd definitely have anxiety.
Kind of,
Tinnitus refers to the symptom not the cause.
I have both. I can hear blood rushing around my ears where the sound varies from windy/water rushy sounds to faint very high-pitched sounds. Then when I exert myself physically (e.g. get up suddenly after not moving a long while) there can be a kind of thud followed by very loud high (but not very high) frequency ringing. Once that happens regardless of how idle I am it doesn't go away for hours. Sometimes it just creeps up slowly from nothing in particular. The first kind mostly don't notice and forget it's there, the other is very distracting so play music or white-noise.
Strangely I don't know that either of them interfere with falling asleep. It may very well be that I just don't even try to sleep unless tired and quiet, can't tell--I don't do it consciously. Lately I usually start something on Netflix or YouTube without autoplay so perhaps that's what I accidentally found to work.
Strangely I don't know that either of them interfere with falling asleep. It may very well be that I just don't even try to sleep unless tired and quiet, can't tell--I don't do it consciously. Lately I usually start something on Netflix or YouTube without autoplay so perhaps that's what I accidentally found to work.
>> There’s even a category of tinnitus for sounds within the ear that can be objectively heard by someone other than the sufferer - This is known as “objective tinnitus”.
This doesn't make sense. If it can be heard by someone else, its by definition an aural stimulus event and not tinnitis.
This doesn't make sense. If it can be heard by someone else, its by definition an aural stimulus event and not tinnitis.
That was my first thought as well, but it’s a thing. One of those times I learned the definition of a word wasn’t exactly what I thought it was (or, more precisely that the commonly used definition of a word actually needs a technical/clinical qualifier to be complete, such as “subjective” in this case, because other qualified definitions exist). https://www.medlink.com/articles/objective-tinnitus
“Objective tinnitus is a perceived sensation of sound that occurs in the absence of external acoustic stimulation, but it can also be heard by the examiner (eg, by placing a stethoscope over the patient's external auditory canal). Objective tinnitus can occur either from perception of an abnormal somatosound or abnormal perception of a normal somatosound. Objective tinnitus is much less common than subjective tinnitus, but it often has an identifiable cause and may be curable, whereas subjective tinnitus is often idiopathic and is seldom curable.”
“Objective tinnitus is a perceived sensation of sound that occurs in the absence of external acoustic stimulation, but it can also be heard by the examiner (eg, by placing a stethoscope over the patient's external auditory canal). Objective tinnitus can occur either from perception of an abnormal somatosound or abnormal perception of a normal somatosound. Objective tinnitus is much less common than subjective tinnitus, but it often has an identifiable cause and may be curable, whereas subjective tinnitus is often idiopathic and is seldom curable.”
The ears are capable of generating sound.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otoacoustic_emission
The main function of this system is to protect the ear from loud sounds—noise canceling and/or modulate sensitivity as a function of spectrum.
The main function of this system is to protect the ear from loud sounds—noise canceling and/or modulate sensitivity as a function of spectrum.
I have had periodic tinnitus in my left ear for maybe 10 years and I'm 55. I would say that it "comes and goes" after sleeping. Rarely have I noted it going away or coming back while I'm awake.
I have some high frequency hearing loss in this ear, probably due to using noisy machinery in my 20s without proper hearing protection. Anytime I do loud things nowadays, I wear hearing protection.
I have noticed my tinnitus seems less frequent if I stay properly hydrated. I have a tendency to forget to drink water and making a point of it seems to help.
I have some high frequency hearing loss in this ear, probably due to using noisy machinery in my 20s without proper hearing protection. Anytime I do loud things nowadays, I wear hearing protection.
I have noticed my tinnitus seems less frequent if I stay properly hydrated. I have a tendency to forget to drink water and making a point of it seems to help.
When I was in the army, during training, my room mate had tinnitus, from stress and a loud noise. He was asked to drink a LOT of water by the medics.
This was almost 20y ago, so I don‘t remember the details, but hydration seems to be a treatment. I only remember since it seemed weird to me at the time.
The link might be through sleep bruxism. The ear is very close to the jaw and I suppose that jaw tension might have an effect in the ear. TMD sufferers also frequently complain about tinnitus.
Generally stress often manifests in tight jaw muscles. And the jaw is close to the nerves that cause one form of tinnitus. And the jaw muscles are also connected to the muscles in neck and shoulders. And these muscles are often strained with people that spend their days hunched over computer screens.
So, jaw relaxation, posture, sports does it for me.
So, jaw relaxation, posture, sports does it for me.
That sounds plausible, yet I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere! Mind expanding on what worked for you?
Simple exercises like pulling the jaw down and to the fromt or chewing in a circular motion (“like a camel”). Chewimg gum. Chewing on something hard, like carrots. Giving the jaw something to do. Massaging the point where the jawbone meets the skull. Rotating the shoulders front and back. Taking walks. Imagining that the head is a melon that needs to be balanced on the shoulders without falling over. Making sure one has enough times without appointments and duties. Being in nature. Spending time with animals.
This is very interesting to me. I have bruxism (extra bone growth on the top of my jaw by my back teeth) as well as mild tinnitus, and I have firm pillows I sleep on. I will do some research on TMJ/bruxism-specific or just softer pillows. I'm sure it'll be a very long-term fix and not see immediate results, but the link between TMJ/bruxism and tinnitus is an interesting area, and might be my own cause. Thank you for the comment!
I had vague problems in that area and changed pillows - I had a harder latex sort of pillow that was moulded, moved to a cheapo supermarket pillow and seems to have gone away.
I will just note I went to physical therapy for shoulder pain for a few months until I realized I just needed a less-firm pillow.
Meta lesson: just try things!
Meta lesson: just try things!
Unfortunately I have 3 types of tinnitus: caused by hearing loss, caused by neck muscles, caused by too much stimulus (stress, a long drive, too much caffeine, and so on).
Hearing loss can not be healed but the other two types always go away after good sleep.
If you got tinnitus it is good to figure out if there is a cause that can be taken away. Sometimes you are in luck and a good deep sleep can improve things.
Hearing loss can not be healed but the other two types always go away after good sleep.
If you got tinnitus it is good to figure out if there is a cause that can be taken away. Sometimes you are in luck and a good deep sleep can improve things.
>the other two types always go away after good sleep
In other words, it seems the other two types of tinnitus are sensitive to the amount of reactive oxygen species (ROS).
When you sleep, the ROS are suppressed by glutathione. Then, you feel fresh and rested when you wake up.
When you go through your day, the amount of ROS slowly but steadily increases until you sleep and allow glutathione to do its job again. The cycle repeats.
Given that your tinnitus seems to depend on ROS, I would suggest to experiment with NAC 600 mg and see whether it improves the symptoms. NAC is a glutathione precursor and causes the immediate suppression of ROS.
If there is a correlation then the condition can be treated and improved.
In other words, it seems the other two types of tinnitus are sensitive to the amount of reactive oxygen species (ROS).
When you sleep, the ROS are suppressed by glutathione. Then, you feel fresh and rested when you wake up.
When you go through your day, the amount of ROS slowly but steadily increases until you sleep and allow glutathione to do its job again. The cycle repeats.
Given that your tinnitus seems to depend on ROS, I would suggest to experiment with NAC 600 mg and see whether it improves the symptoms. NAC is a glutathione precursor and causes the immediate suppression of ROS.
If there is a correlation then the condition can be treated and improved.
Is there a medical specialist that one can go talk to about this approach? I am open to trying it, but would rather do so using someone with a medical license versus Internet wisdom
This is pretty new area so chances that you will be able to find a corresponding specialist around the corner are dim. Probably the closest matches are nutritional neurologists and holistic doctors.
There are some public materials by people like Elliot Overton and Sten Ekberg. As far as I know, they do general practices combined with private consulting as well. You can try to reach them remotely or physically by visiting their clinics.
There are some public materials by people like Elliot Overton and Sten Ekberg. As far as I know, they do general practices combined with private consulting as well. You can try to reach them remotely or physically by visiting their clinics.
How do you isolate and identify the different causes? I think I have all three of these at times, and I suspect neck muscles because cervical traction seems to help sometimes. But it’s really hard to pin anything down concretely, tinnitus seems so evasive. Sometimes I can’t even match tones I can hear loud and clear when using a tone generator.
This is just experience over the years. I started to notice what caused it.
> Hearing loss can not be healed
My friend had a tinnitus for a while and later found out it's due to hearing problems on both ears. He then got hearing aids and the tinnitus went away.
So it looks like, _some_ form of hearing loss induced tinnitus can be treated.
My friend had a tinnitus for a while and later found out it's due to hearing problems on both ears. He then got hearing aids and the tinnitus went away.
So it looks like, _some_ form of hearing loss induced tinnitus can be treated.
Where do you even find a doctor who can tell you? I haven't been able to get past: "well your hearing looks fine, good luck" (even though I've done independent tests to see that I have significant loss in the tinnitus side above 10khz; they just didn't test that high).
I had the same thought, to be fair, the doctors did get me to make a few exams, but the end result was still "well your hearing looks fine, good luck".
It's been a few years now. I'm lucky since the noise in my ear is not too strong and often I don't think about it unless I'm alone in silence, but it somewhat sad to think of never being able to hear silence again.
It's been a few years now. I'm lucky since the noise in my ear is not too strong and often I don't think about it unless I'm alone in silence, but it somewhat sad to think of never being able to hear silence again.
After a good night's sleep, your blood pressure also goes down. I've been monitoring my blood pressure for a few months and I've noticed that my tinnitus gets better or worse depending on how high my blood pressure is.
It would be cool to additionally match this with blood glucose levels. It may give some good hints.
For example, if tinnitus gets worse while blood pressure and glucose both go up (without eating) then it may be a hint of an underlying metabolic problem.
To confirm this further, you can then eat 15 g of sugar and see what happens next. If tinnitus improves then the hypothesis of metabolic underlying problem becomes very, very probable.
For example, if tinnitus gets worse while blood pressure and glucose both go up (without eating) then it may be a hint of an underlying metabolic problem.
To confirm this further, you can then eat 15 g of sugar and see what happens next. If tinnitus improves then the hypothesis of metabolic underlying problem becomes very, very probable.
Sugar and spicy food without doubt aggrevate my symptoms.
What if you stay hungry for several hours? Is there an improvement of symptoms?
I don't eat after 5pm during the week so I do experience odd bouts of hunger. Not sure whether the aleviation of symptoms is connected to this or just coincidental of other attempts to keep my blood pressure low?
I worked on lowering my blood pressure and for certain my tinnutus has become a lot milder, and my life a lot more liveable as a consequence.
Anyone have good coping resources or tips to share?
If my tinnitus is bad during the day, I use these pages, and they do often help in varying degrees.
https://generalfuzz.net/acrn/
https://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/whiteBurstsNoiseGenerator....
https://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/neuromodulationTonesGenera...
If my tinnitus is bad during the day, I use these pages, and they do often help in varying degrees.
https://generalfuzz.net/acrn/
https://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/whiteBurstsNoiseGenerator....
https://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/neuromodulationTonesGenera...
I have tinnitus so badly that some days I am incapacitated. It's bad. I use white noise machines to get through the day - it masks it but doesn't make it go away.
The thing that I've discovered that actually makes it go away: extreme bass. Massive, 18" speaker cabinets and kilowatt amplifiers for long periods of time, the kind that makes your whole body vibrate, while wearing ear protection. I discovered my first this after DJ'ing a club with a proper bass soundsystem and have confirmed it since. The effect lasts from weeks to months.
I found a few things in the medical literature which support this as a real possibility and emailed a researchers about it who said the same thing. I am seriously considering opening up a crackpot bass-therapy clinic to help other sufferers, but need to have other people confirm it works for them first.
The thing that I've discovered that actually makes it go away: extreme bass. Massive, 18" speaker cabinets and kilowatt amplifiers for long periods of time, the kind that makes your whole body vibrate, while wearing ear protection. I discovered my first this after DJ'ing a club with a proper bass soundsystem and have confirmed it since. The effect lasts from weeks to months.
I found a few things in the medical literature which support this as a real possibility and emailed a researchers about it who said the same thing. I am seriously considering opening up a crackpot bass-therapy clinic to help other sufferers, but need to have other people confirm it works for them first.
I’ve read about a proposed treatment of listening to notched white noise. The theory is that, by listening to white noise with a notch filter at the frequency that matches your tinnitus frequency, your ears or brain will become less sensitive to your tinnitus frequency. There are websites with reference tones to help find your tinnitus frequency and YouTube videos of white noise notched at different frequencies (supposedly, I haven’t verified).
I have tinnitus and listen to white, brown, and pink noise throughout the day. I tried notched white noise for a couple months, but didn’t notice any change compared to regular white noise. My favorite noise these days is “space ship engine noise” videos on YouTube. I get to pretend I’m working on the Enterprise. :)
I have tinnitus and listen to white, brown, and pink noise throughout the day. I tried notched white noise for a couple months, but didn’t notice any change compared to regular white noise. My favorite noise these days is “space ship engine noise” videos on YouTube. I get to pretend I’m working on the Enterprise. :)
Whoa never heard this before! Thanks for sharing, will definitely be trying it. I’ll report back here when I do.
Btw, how long do you listen to bass sounds? And do you have thoughts/opinions on what frequencies and how much variation is needed? Just wondering if I should use a tone generator or put on some EDM, and whether I should try at home or it’ll take long enough that I should go somewhere that the neighbors won’t hear it for hours.
Btw, how long do you listen to bass sounds? And do you have thoughts/opinions on what frequencies and how much variation is needed? Just wondering if I should use a tone generator or put on some EDM, and whether I should try at home or it’ll take long enough that I should go somewhere that the neighbors won’t hear it for hours.
The point is that it is _tactile subbass_, bordering on infrasound. It is a type of bass that most people probably haven't experienced unless they are going to real reggae or club events, and most clubs in the US don't have real soundsystems, just PAs pushed to the red.
I've tried, I can't just listen to a low sin note on headphones to fix it (in fact maybe this makes it worse). I actually don't think the ears are important, it is being physically vibrated that does it. I tried with a SubPac transduction woofer and it maybe worked? But not to the degree I'm really talking about here. A strange phenomena. I don't even like reggae that much but I got to the monthly reggae dance here just to get vibrated.
I've tried, I can't just listen to a low sin note on headphones to fix it (in fact maybe this makes it worse). I actually don't think the ears are important, it is being physically vibrated that does it. I tried with a SubPac transduction woofer and it maybe worked? But not to the degree I'm really talking about here. A strange phenomena. I don't even like reggae that much but I got to the monthly reggae dance here just to get vibrated.
I wonder if going to a top fuel drag race would have a similar effect[0]. The sound pressure levels are intense, to the level of moving one's internal organs around if one is close to the cars. It is something that has to be experienced.
If one is going for the first time, I'd recommend going to the qualifying rounds. It's often cheaper and usually less crowded. Make sure top fuel funny cars or dragsters are racing -- the lower classes are significantly quieter.
[0] Wearing hearing protection. I'd recommend the kind that go in the ear, covered by the kind that go over the ear.
If one is going for the first time, I'd recommend going to the qualifying rounds. It's often cheaper and usually less crowded. Make sure top fuel funny cars or dragsters are racing -- the lower classes are significantly quieter.
[0] Wearing hearing protection. I'd recommend the kind that go in the ear, covered by the kind that go over the ear.
[deleted]
Low frequency physical vibrations of the body tend to improve other neurological conditions as well. Never was able to find any official explanations for it, but experienced this on several occasions.
My personal hypothesis is that the vibrations may somehow stimulate local physical interconnectivity in damaged tissues leading to their improved recovery.
Riding a car has a similar effect, especially when the road is a bit rocky.
My personal hypothesis is that the vibrations may somehow stimulate local physical interconnectivity in damaged tissues leading to their improved recovery.
Riding a car has a similar effect, especially when the road is a bit rocky.
That's so interesting and co-incidental that it's how I probably got it (18" speaker cabinets and kilowatt amplifiers but without the hearing protection).
I'd come in for this therapy. I think the most bothersome of my tinnitus is that it makes hearing certain speech difficult and could detract from enjoying certain parts of music.
I'd come in for this therapy. I think the most bothersome of my tinnitus is that it makes hearing certain speech difficult and could detract from enjoying certain parts of music.
That sounds so country intuitive because it seems likely that the loud base and DJing caused the hearing damage and tinnitus in the first place. Not saying it doesn't work but questioning, why it works if it does
That explains the (literally, no exaggeration) deafening music especially the subwoofers from the bars a couple streets below...
The world needs more people boldly experimenting, I commend you! (And be careful)
> Around 15% of the world’s population suffers from tinnitus
As someone who has had chronic and constant tinnitus for nearly two decades I find this claim pretty questionable, or at least not clearly articulated (following through to the linked Lancet article didn't help much). Whenever I mention this fact in conversation people seem horrified, and in the sample "nearly everyone I have known for years" never encountered anyone who replies with "oh yea, same here".
I'm assuming that 15% of the world's population does not suffer from constant/chronic tinnitus, but I would also expect far greater than 15% has ever had tinnitus, so I'm not sure what this number means. The linked Lancet article didn't offer much help and mostly references a handbook that doesn't appear to be trivially findable online.
Curious if anyone has discovered some clarification around this?
As someone who has had chronic and constant tinnitus for nearly two decades I find this claim pretty questionable, or at least not clearly articulated (following through to the linked Lancet article didn't help much). Whenever I mention this fact in conversation people seem horrified, and in the sample "nearly everyone I have known for years" never encountered anyone who replies with "oh yea, same here".
I'm assuming that 15% of the world's population does not suffer from constant/chronic tinnitus, but I would also expect far greater than 15% has ever had tinnitus, so I'm not sure what this number means. The linked Lancet article didn't offer much help and mostly references a handbook that doesn't appear to be trivially findable online.
Curious if anyone has discovered some clarification around this?
I'd say there are tons of weird semi-medical things that people have that are basically benign that they just live with. I've had bouts with tinnitus; I went to the gun range with my cousin who I've known my whole life and mentioned the importance of hearing protection and to try and keep my tinnitus minimized. He mentioned he has the same issue.
I also had what has been called "Alice in Wonderland Syndrome" as a child where I had strange sensations of my body feeling larger or smaller when going to sleep. I never thought much of it, but eventually I heard that it happens to other people too.
I also had what has been called "Alice in Wonderland Syndrome" as a child where I had strange sensations of my body feeling larger or smaller when going to sleep. I never thought much of it, but eventually I heard that it happens to other people too.
The link does clarify a bit about what they mean.
“the scatter of prevalence estimates is wide, although most study results have shown rates of between 10% and 15% of the adult population. The largest and most scientifically reliable study was undertaken as part of the National Study of Hearing in England (n=48 313).3 The results of the study showed a prevalence of 10·1% among adults, with the tinnitus described as moderately annoying by 2·8% of respondents, severely annoying by 1·6%, and at a level that severely affected ability to lead a normal life by 0·5%. Results from studies in Egypt,4 Japan,5 and Nigeria,6 indicate tinnitus prevalence is broadly similar in these countries to in Europe and the USA.”
“the scatter of prevalence estimates is wide, although most study results have shown rates of between 10% and 15% of the adult population. The largest and most scientifically reliable study was undertaken as part of the National Study of Hearing in England (n=48 313).3 The results of the study showed a prevalence of 10·1% among adults, with the tinnitus described as moderately annoying by 2·8% of respondents, severely annoying by 1·6%, and at a level that severely affected ability to lead a normal life by 0·5%. Results from studies in Egypt,4 Japan,5 and Nigeria,6 indicate tinnitus prevalence is broadly similar in these countries to in Europe and the USA.”
I have tinnitus, nobody ever asked me though. Any figure quoted is likley bullshit.
I have this condition called visual snow syndrome, a neurological condition which causes my tinnitus. Symptoms are always there, but luckily, mine are mild. The tinnitus is the most noticeable though unless I'm listening to music.
Did you get diagnosed by a professional? I suspect I suffer from the same rare symptoms but I am too affraid to ask an ophthalmologist on such a rare condition.
I don't have an official diagnosis, but I did see an optometrist because I was afraid I was going blind who said "I know exactly what you're describing." I then saw my GP who ordered an MRI to make sure it wasn't MS.
The MRI found absolutely nothing. My eye doctor says my eyes are extremely healthy.
My symptoms line up exactly with VSS and I had a lot of peace of mind knowing what I was experiencing and that I wasn't going blind, so I didn't pursue the proper further test (PET scan, I think).
Honestly, the peace of mind was worth it, but be armed with research on it.
The MRI found absolutely nothing. My eye doctor says my eyes are extremely healthy.
My symptoms line up exactly with VSS and I had a lot of peace of mind knowing what I was experiencing and that I wasn't going blind, so I didn't pursue the proper further test (PET scan, I think).
Honestly, the peace of mind was worth it, but be armed with research on it.
Thank you! I will probably follow suit with my GP. It's always good to find people suffering from the same condition. Helps with managing your psychological issues.
I have this too. Is there some study showing it is the same underlying problem causing both symptoms? I only knew that you are more likely to have tinnitus and migraines if you have visual snow.
There are some treatments for both symptoms. The ones I've tried involve listening or looking at static. Neither had much effect on me.
The best way I've found to deal with it is to ignore it. focusing on treatments preversly makes me more aware of the annoyance.
There are some treatments for both symptoms. The ones I've tried involve listening or looking at static. Neither had much effect on me.
The best way I've found to deal with it is to ignore it. focusing on treatments preversly makes me more aware of the annoyance.
There may be the same underlying problem for both tinnitus and visual snow. The problem can be characterised as a systemic neurological damage. For example, it can be caused by the loss of myelin in nerve fibres.
In turn, that condition is commonly caused by the underlying metabolic problems, which can be caused by genetic mutations in mitochondria, toxins, episodes of hypoxia, unhealthy lifestyles, oxidative stress.
When this happens, the other symptoms may include chronic fatigue, acquired insulin resistance, T2DM, sometimes various neurological manifestations in different parts of the body, and even dementia. Personal mileage may vary, it really goes from 1 to 11.
In turn, that condition is commonly caused by the underlying metabolic problems, which can be caused by genetic mutations in mitochondria, toxins, episodes of hypoxia, unhealthy lifestyles, oxidative stress.
When this happens, the other symptoms may include chronic fatigue, acquired insulin resistance, T2DM, sometimes various neurological manifestations in different parts of the body, and even dementia. Personal mileage may vary, it really goes from 1 to 11.
After seeking medical help, my doctor did discover I had a critical B12 deficiency, but AFAIK there is no connection even though I had nerve damage from the B12 issues.
Apparently a healthy number is 500+, most people will present with issues in the 250-300 range, and I was at 166 when critical is 144ish.
I have to take a daily pill for the rest of my life and things have improved, but the VSS is still the same.
Apparently a healthy number is 500+, most people will present with issues in the 250-300 range, and I was at 166 when critical is 144ish.
I have to take a daily pill for the rest of my life and things have improved, but the VSS is still the same.
There is a connection. You can imagine a nerve as a cord and when it gets damaged even slightly the signal dropouts do occur. Just like an analog TV gets noisy when the coaxial cord or its connection gets subpar, the human visual field gets distorted in a similar way. You can apply that analogy to hearing problems (e.g. tinnitus) as well.
For a long time we believed that when neurons die the condition stays forever and cannot be improved.
However the consequent observations on WW2 veterans proved the opposite - neuro tissues do recover but they do so extremely slowly.
If you had such a good response to B12 means that not all is lost.
What you can try to achieve is to provide the conditions for faster neurological recovery: speed-up the cellular ATP production to provide the energy for anabolism while slightly suppressing the immune system response so it does not get in the way. You biological machinery will do the rest.
The first part of the equation is reached with specific combinations of vitamins and coenzymes. For example, here is a combination that can serve as the basis: B1 in therapeutical doses (pills, >= 250 mg per day) + multivitamin. The second part of the equation is reached with NSAIDs.
Such treatment may allow you to reach some notable improvements just in few months. And those improvements will persist and accumulate.
For a long time we believed that when neurons die the condition stays forever and cannot be improved.
However the consequent observations on WW2 veterans proved the opposite - neuro tissues do recover but they do so extremely slowly.
If you had such a good response to B12 means that not all is lost.
What you can try to achieve is to provide the conditions for faster neurological recovery: speed-up the cellular ATP production to provide the energy for anabolism while slightly suppressing the immune system response so it does not get in the way. You biological machinery will do the rest.
The first part of the equation is reached with specific combinations of vitamins and coenzymes. For example, here is a combination that can serve as the basis: B1 in therapeutical doses (pills, >= 250 mg per day) + multivitamin. The second part of the equation is reached with NSAIDs.
Such treatment may allow you to reach some notable improvements just in few months. And those improvements will persist and accumulate.
I really appreciate this— I'll look into it!
I had never heard of visual snow, it's interesting that the symptoms seem to primarily be the brain not rejecting normal noise sources like floaters and white blood cells.
That's how I understand it, that it's some combination of interference getting into the nerves after the images are merged from the eyes, but also that the brain also doesn't filter out things that it normally does.
After reading your comment, I looked up visual snow syndrome, and I think I have it, too. I guess not much one can do about it?
Search for Beriberi. This is a condition caused by a malnutrition. The end result is onset of an acquired mitochondrial dysfunction which leads to some degree of a neurological damage.
There are various possible causes for acquiring a mitochondrial dysfunction beyond the malnutrition. The good news is that it can treated if it is not caused by a genetic defect.
The treatment is similar to treating Beriberi, regardless of the original cause. The unpleasant part is that it takes some time and patience ranging from months to years.
There are various possible causes for acquiring a mitochondrial dysfunction beyond the malnutrition. The good news is that it can treated if it is not caused by a genetic defect.
The treatment is similar to treating Beriberi, regardless of the original cause. The unpleasant part is that it takes some time and patience ranging from months to years.
I’ve recently been diagnosed with tinnitus. It started happening after I got Covid for a second time. I went to an ENT and she was entirely useless. It’s disheartening. Luckily my sleep doesn’t seem to be affected, but I’m not sure how good my actual sleep is.
I’m not sure if Covid causes it, or it’s stress that is causing it. I notice it’s worse on some days and other days I don’t notice it until I’m in a very quiet area. It’s frustrating to go to the doctor and spend money and essentially just be told I’m fucked.
Should I look for another doctor and get a second opinion? Is there any therapies I can do to help alleviate it? Any help would be greatly appreciated
I’m not sure if Covid causes it, or it’s stress that is causing it. I notice it’s worse on some days and other days I don’t notice it until I’m in a very quiet area. It’s frustrating to go to the doctor and spend money and essentially just be told I’m fucked.
Should I look for another doctor and get a second opinion? Is there any therapies I can do to help alleviate it? Any help would be greatly appreciated
The way I would interpret the article relates to my experience with lucid imaging. Sort of like dreaming but I'm really just seeing a scene rather than experiencing something. I can only do this in similar conditions as lucid dreaming (but I've very rarely experienced that). The thing I found is that you have to have no external perceptions for my imagined ones to form. Once I've seen the real world, it's near impossible to forget it and get back to my imagined one.
I suspect that tinnitus is similar in that the lack of an external signal allows for filling in with imagined sounds. Since there's no external reset the default could be simple tones (at least that's what I hear). For the analogy to hold the pitches of the sounds imagined should match frequencies of hearing loss. I tried to match up what I imagine I hear with recorded tones and it's close to the limit, e.g. I can hear faintly up to about 16 kHz and the tone I imagine is about 15 kHz--I don't recall the exact numbers but it was relatively like that.
I suppose with practice one could imagine hearing something while awake in those frequencies to the point it's indistinguishable from actually hearing it. I don't think I'd want to learn how to induce specific sounds or voices in my head that I can't turn off at will. At least you can know that the high-pitched sounds aren't real.
I suspect that tinnitus is similar in that the lack of an external signal allows for filling in with imagined sounds. Since there's no external reset the default could be simple tones (at least that's what I hear). For the analogy to hold the pitches of the sounds imagined should match frequencies of hearing loss. I tried to match up what I imagine I hear with recorded tones and it's close to the limit, e.g. I can hear faintly up to about 16 kHz and the tone I imagine is about 15 kHz--I don't recall the exact numbers but it was relatively like that.
I suppose with practice one could imagine hearing something while awake in those frequencies to the point it's indistinguishable from actually hearing it. I don't think I'd want to learn how to induce specific sounds or voices in my head that I can't turn off at will. At least you can know that the high-pitched sounds aren't real.
I've had tinnitus as long as I can remember. Watching a Bugs Bunny cartoon where Elmer Fudd got hit over the head and he says "somebody answer that phone" or some such, I didn't get the joke so I asked my dad. He told me some people have ringing in their ears. I couldn't have been more than 7 and that was how I learned it was abnormal. I have always had poor hearing too. Don't know why to either of them.
Definitely me.
Tinnitus: check,
Sleeping disturbances: check,
Night terrors: check
Funnily enough, I have mild tinnitus, but sleep very soundly. I have a fan on 24/7 in my bedroom that helps enough for drowning out the tinnitus sound. I rarely if ever wake up in the middle of the night, and wake up fairly refreshed. I even fall asleep relatively fast compared to some other people I know.
Elsewhere in this thread, it's been mentioned that there are several types of tinnitus (it's apparently an umbrella term), and some tinnitus can be caused by a firm pillow and bruxism, which fits my description.
I wonder if the type of tinnitus has more or less effect on sleep than others.
Elsewhere in this thread, it's been mentioned that there are several types of tinnitus (it's apparently an umbrella term), and some tinnitus can be caused by a firm pillow and bruxism, which fits my description.
I wonder if the type of tinnitus has more or less effect on sleep than others.
I never put two and two together but I think this tracks with my experience. I don't get deep sleep like I used to. For the last few years, I dream and wake up multiple times every night. I used to sleep through the night and only dream here and there. I also got tinnitus a few years ago. I couldn't swear that these happened at the same time but it makes sense.
I thought it is totally normal to have sleep wake cycles? This is not science obviously but my Sleep Cycle app gives me lower scores when I don’t have these cycles, compared to when I have several (3-4) such cycles.
Alternatively, what contributed to your sleep issues also contributed to your tinnitus.
I'm saying that because that was the case for me. A back then undiscovered dose of mercury led to all kinds of back then mostly ignored ("it's not that bad and it'll probably go way" - I was young) issues, and some tinnitus was just a part of it, but also some serious sleep issues.
Any such environmental factors are rarely diagnosed, because that's really hard unless it's so bad that it's severe acute poisoning. But any less than that probably won't ever be discovered and will all be attributed - by the person themselves too (in my case definitely) - to "stress" (even if there is not that much) or aging. You can't detect it with imaging, symptoms are inconclusive at best, and forget blood tests, they are only useful for said acute poisonings.
> and only dream here and there
You would not know if you dreamed, normally. Only if you wake up while still dreaming. Even then usually you quickly forget most or all of what it was about. To remember more you have to wake up right in the middle of it.
By the way, speaking about dreams, during the years when I had those issues my dreams often were nightmares, they were full of feelings of helplessness, being unable or barely able to move, and generally very unpleasant. I had more than once during those harder times dreams where parts of my body were very seriously diseased including total tissue disintegration and open holes in my body, inside the dream.
Those dreams came from "below", from the "hardware", not from my (completely unconcerned) consciousness (I hope I kind of get across what I mean, not sure how to formulate this correctly). What I mean is, at the time I had no worries about my health whatsoever. All my problems, even though something like almost-asthma allergy coming out of nowhere and suddenly, seemed normal and manageable and as if it would all go away given some time, so I just coped (for example, hyposensitization treatment) and worked around the issues but didn't think much of it.
Since the problem was actually diagnosed (university clinic, lab tests) and solved (chelators, for years) my dreams have become AMAZING, and super interesting too. I'm so glad I had to wake up during some of them (alarm was set) so that I actually remember some. I never knew what great fantasies, sophistication and city-, house- and landscapes my brain was capable of generating, it was just terrible before.
Given that experience, I think even if it's kind of useless because it's way too vague and probably very dependent on the individual, the contents of dreams might give some indications to a body's health status too.
I'm saying that because that was the case for me. A back then undiscovered dose of mercury led to all kinds of back then mostly ignored ("it's not that bad and it'll probably go way" - I was young) issues, and some tinnitus was just a part of it, but also some serious sleep issues.
Any such environmental factors are rarely diagnosed, because that's really hard unless it's so bad that it's severe acute poisoning. But any less than that probably won't ever be discovered and will all be attributed - by the person themselves too (in my case definitely) - to "stress" (even if there is not that much) or aging. You can't detect it with imaging, symptoms are inconclusive at best, and forget blood tests, they are only useful for said acute poisonings.
> and only dream here and there
You would not know if you dreamed, normally. Only if you wake up while still dreaming. Even then usually you quickly forget most or all of what it was about. To remember more you have to wake up right in the middle of it.
By the way, speaking about dreams, during the years when I had those issues my dreams often were nightmares, they were full of feelings of helplessness, being unable or barely able to move, and generally very unpleasant. I had more than once during those harder times dreams where parts of my body were very seriously diseased including total tissue disintegration and open holes in my body, inside the dream.
Those dreams came from "below", from the "hardware", not from my (completely unconcerned) consciousness (I hope I kind of get across what I mean, not sure how to formulate this correctly). What I mean is, at the time I had no worries about my health whatsoever. All my problems, even though something like almost-asthma allergy coming out of nowhere and suddenly, seemed normal and manageable and as if it would all go away given some time, so I just coped (for example, hyposensitization treatment) and worked around the issues but didn't think much of it.
Since the problem was actually diagnosed (university clinic, lab tests) and solved (chelators, for years) my dreams have become AMAZING, and super interesting too. I'm so glad I had to wake up during some of them (alarm was set) so that I actually remember some. I never knew what great fantasies, sophistication and city-, house- and landscapes my brain was capable of generating, it was just terrible before.
Given that experience, I think even if it's kind of useless because it's way too vague and probably very dependent on the individual, the contents of dreams might give some indications to a body's health status too.
I cured my tinnitus for several years by taking 3mg melatonin @ 21:00 daily, thereby regularizing my sleep schedule. Then I slacked off when the melatonin stopped making me sleepy, and the tinnitus came back. It's also affected negatively by alcohol (positively, initially, but then the rebound anxiety kicks in) and also positively by benzos (again, unless I don't titrate after the dose I take to break a spike, and then there's hellish rebound anxiety and corresponding tinnitus amplification).
No. 1 learning for me: it's stress. Sleep, stress, and anxiety are all wound up in a big ball that vibrates at about 13kHz inside my head, slightly biased to the left.
No. 1 learning for me: it's stress. Sleep, stress, and anxiety are all wound up in a big ball that vibrates at about 13kHz inside my head, slightly biased to the left.
I will watch this with great interest.
Beginning to hear tinnitus is one of my backstop signals for tiredness, where I can avoid sleep deprivation inertia on waking, if I go to bed within half-an-hour to 2 hours of onset.
It seems to reliably relate to changes in muscle tension I sense around my ear and upper neck, often some slow twitching as well. It's a related sensation to satisfying yawns, stretching that eustachian tube.
Beginning to hear tinnitus is one of my backstop signals for tiredness, where I can avoid sleep deprivation inertia on waking, if I go to bed within half-an-hour to 2 hours of onset.
It seems to reliably relate to changes in muscle tension I sense around my ear and upper neck, often some slow twitching as well. It's a related sensation to satisfying yawns, stretching that eustachian tube.
Seeems very plausible. Anecdotal evidence datapoint: I just woke up from an afternoon nap and my ears were buzzing with high-pitched noise. The nap was exactly an hour long and it was an alarm that woke me up. By the time I read the article, the buzzing went away. Hope they figure it out.
I came to this article expecting it to be about a potential cause for tinnitus in disturbed sleep, but the claim within it actually seems to be that tinnitus causes sleep disturbance, specifically of slow-wave sleep.
My (relatively mild) tinitus completely dissapeated when I was severely modifying my diet.
I do not know what exactly is that cause of it but I lean in the direction that it's one of these
1) Blood electrolyte levels
2)meat
3) carbs/sugars in large amount
One could experiment with a keto diet for start.
I do not know what exactly is that cause of it but I lean in the direction that it's one of these
1) Blood electrolyte levels
2)meat
3) carbs/sugars in large amount
One could experiment with a keto diet for start.
Laying down increases cranial pressure. A symptom of high cranial pressure is tinnitus.
On support forums people often wonder why head pain is worse after laying down for awhile.
See “Idiopathic intracranial hypertension” Also called: pseudotumor cerebri
On support forums people often wonder why head pain is worse after laying down for awhile.
See “Idiopathic intracranial hypertension” Also called: pseudotumor cerebri
It is definitely related to (lack) of sleep for me.
Basically cover your ears with your palms and snap your index fingers loudly on the back of your skull. 40 or 50 times and when I remove my hands, it is blessed silence for at least a few minutes and often long enough to fall asleep.
https://lifehacker.com/this-weird-trick-might-give-you-brief...