Tiny, cheap smart speakers unlocked the rise of digital payments in India(restofworld.org)
restofworld.org
Tiny, cheap smart speakers unlocked the rise of digital payments in India
https://restofworld.org/2023/india-sound-boxes-paytm-phonepe/
146 comments
> In my latest trip, I don't believe I paid cash in any shop and I was in a second tier city the whole time, not one of the big metropolitan cities.
If you’re a tourist or business visitor, this isn’t possible. UPI isn’t available to you. Also note that many smaller shops which accept cards and do accept India-issued MasterCard/Visa/Rupay won’t take MC/Visa issued abroad, because their payment providers charge them extra.
Digital payments for business visitors and tourists in India are pretty terrible outside of upscale places.
If you’re an Indian living abroad, for now, you need to keep an Indian phone number active to use UPI (this should change soon). You can use cards though, especially if you have an India-issued card — those have much wider acceptance.
If you’re a tourist or business visitor, this isn’t possible. UPI isn’t available to you. Also note that many smaller shops which accept cards and do accept India-issued MasterCard/Visa/Rupay won’t take MC/Visa issued abroad, because their payment providers charge them extra.
Digital payments for business visitors and tourists in India are pretty terrible outside of upscale places.
If you’re an Indian living abroad, for now, you need to keep an Indian phone number active to use UPI (this should change soon). You can use cards though, especially if you have an India-issued card — those have much wider acceptance.
Yes, visitors can make UPI payments now. See recent news:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/nri/invest/in-bound-tra...
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/nri/invest/in-bound-tra...
This is promising, but it’s not as exciting as one would assume — it’s a very limited rollout, ensuring the use/don’t use UPI decision has to be made quite quickly for people unfamiliar with it, which is most tourists.
> To start with, it will be available to travelers from G-20 countries, at select international airports (Bengaluru, Mumbai and New Delhi).
> Eligible travellers would be issued Prepaid Payment Instruments (PPI) wallets linked to UPI for making payments at merchant outlets.
> The PPIs shall be issued after physical verification of the passport and visa of the customers at the point of issuance.
Also good luck finding the UPI PPI sale point. And of course it’s extremely limited, to 20 countries.
And the big one
> PPIs can be issued in the form of wallets linked to UPI and can be used for merchant payments (P2M) only.
This is “limited UPI” — you can’t use it for P2P payments or paying your friends and acquaintances. And does UPI Merchant Payments have payment protection / easy dispute resolution yet? If not, tourists would be far better off sticking to cards.
So yeah, good on the RBI for making a start, but this doesn’t help tourists realise even a fraction of UPI’s convenience.
I’m sure one day visitors and regular tourists will be prompted to set up a UPI wallet when they get their visa / eVisa, top up UPI online across the length and breadth of India, and in fact be able to top up their UPI wallets before landing in the country. But there are many bureaucratic barriers before that happens.
> To start with, it will be available to travelers from G-20 countries, at select international airports (Bengaluru, Mumbai and New Delhi).
> Eligible travellers would be issued Prepaid Payment Instruments (PPI) wallets linked to UPI for making payments at merchant outlets.
> The PPIs shall be issued after physical verification of the passport and visa of the customers at the point of issuance.
Also good luck finding the UPI PPI sale point. And of course it’s extremely limited, to 20 countries.
And the big one
> PPIs can be issued in the form of wallets linked to UPI and can be used for merchant payments (P2M) only.
This is “limited UPI” — you can’t use it for P2P payments or paying your friends and acquaintances. And does UPI Merchant Payments have payment protection / easy dispute resolution yet? If not, tourists would be far better off sticking to cards.
So yeah, good on the RBI for making a start, but this doesn’t help tourists realise even a fraction of UPI’s convenience.
I’m sure one day visitors and regular tourists will be prompted to set up a UPI wallet when they get their visa / eVisa, top up UPI online across the length and breadth of India, and in fact be able to top up their UPI wallets before landing in the country. But there are many bureaucratic barriers before that happens.
I would say, there isn't much of "dispute resolution" in digital payments in India. Sure if someone steals your ATM ad stuff and transfers money, you can go to bank and they will try to get that back but on the whole, it is generally understood once the payment is received, its gone from your end.
We don't have charge backs or fraudulent claims because everything is conscious, with an otp so buyer beware
We don't have charge backs or fraudulent claims because everything is conscious, with an otp so buyer beware
It's surprisingly common to just forget tourists/newcomers to your country exist. I've visited Brazil and I could not activate a SIM card I bought because it expected me to put in a CPF, a local equivalent of a SSN which obviously, as a tourist, I did not have. Many places which offered services to tourists (in English!) still expected a CPF to let me book entrance, for example.
Even living in the EU, oftentimes showing any other document than a citizen ID card issued in the country you're in will cause stress, confusion and nervous phone calls.
Even living in the EU, oftentimes showing any other document than a citizen ID card issued in the country you're in will cause stress, confusion and nervous phone calls.
I agree, India in general has pretty bad bureaucracy against tourists, it feels like the government doesn't care at all about attracting them.
But I recently saw that Wise supports transferring money to India via UPI (also more anecdotally - I am living in Singapore and saw that some local banks have this feature as well). I guess this won't be as comfortable as just scanning a QR, but couldn't this technically work for tourists?
But I recently saw that Wise supports transferring money to India via UPI (also more anecdotally - I am living in Singapore and saw that some local banks have this feature as well). I guess this won't be as comfortable as just scanning a QR, but couldn't this technically work for tourists?
I visited India at the start of this year and attempted to pay for my accomodation with Wise (the business didn't have a credit card terminal that took foreign cards). The payment was accepted and marked as sent by Wise, then I went to reception and they said their bank doesn't allow them to receive foreign payments and it would be returned in a few days (which it was). So off to the ATM I went again...
Totally. UPI has made things awesome for the residents but far far worse for the visitors.
Just to add to this, digital payments in India got popular well before COVID, significantly increasing after the demonetization charade (which imo was a bad decision and total chaos).
Demonetization induced usage reduced once cash was back in circulation. It was COVID era fear of touching cash and compulsion of lockdowns that really made digital payments hit the stratosphere.
Pre COVID transcations per month stood at 1.5b and now at 8.5B.
COVID might have convinced few people that's all.
Demonetization's effect is not clear since UPI came out just a year before Demonetization took place.
It took off because of young generation and costs nothing as simple as that. They forced businesses and other to embrace it.
Fun fact, i have been using UPI ever since it came out and used to pay for coconut/veggies with it even back in 2017
COVID might have convinced few people that's all.
Demonetization's effect is not clear since UPI came out just a year before Demonetization took place.
It took off because of young generation and costs nothing as simple as that. They forced businesses and other to embrace it.
Fun fact, i have been using UPI ever since it came out and used to pay for coconut/veggies with it even back in 2017
Curious about your math that equates 7 billion transactions per month to a "few people." That's a relative increase of more than 400%. I think you could argue that we were already on that trajectory, but it sure looks (to me) like Covid accelerated things, which matches my anecdotal experience.
At the end of the day, nothing beats convenience. If the tech and the ecosystem was the same as it is today, it would have found adoption even without demonetization.
The increase due to demonetization cancelled out afterwards. The grown we see now came organically, later
I sometimes go weeks without realizing that I have literally zero cash in my wallet.
I was using UPI so much that my credit card usage had dropped to almost nothing. Literally had to force myself to use the credit card more to accumulate some rewards.
I was using UPI so much that my credit card usage had dropped to almost nothing. Literally had to force myself to use the credit card more to accumulate some rewards.
Ditto. I close few credit cards because of usage drop. Paying with UPI is easier and at least 10x accepted.
Moreover, within a year or so, UPI will start accepting Credit card linking as well. Things are really moving FAST here.
Moreover, within a year or so, UPI will start accepting Credit card linking as well. Things are really moving FAST here.
Credit Card linking with UPI is live for sometime now [0], currently limited to Rupay cards. I have been using my HDFC Rupay CC to pay for Merchant Payments that accept UPI for last month or so.
[0]: https://www.rupay.co.in/rupay-credit-card-on-upi
[0]: https://www.rupay.co.in/rupay-credit-card-on-upi
Any good cards on Rupay? Last time I checked, all the good rewards were on Visa/Mastercard
The good rewards are only possible if the merchants are paying for it through transaction costs. I'd bet on "no" since the national alternatives to Visa/MasterCard usually advertise themselves as "cheaper".
>I sometimes go weeks without realizing that I have literally zero cash in my wallet.
That's pretty much my experience in the US. I probably have the same cash in my wallet that I've had for 5 or more years ... if there's any in there .. duno.
The difference is that I have that experience because of credit cards.
That's pretty much my experience in the US. I probably have the same cash in my wallet that I've had for 5 or more years ... if there's any in there .. duno.
The difference is that I have that experience because of credit cards.
Ironically, it's for Uber (and Ola) - the services that made us move away from cash for taxi and auto in the first place - that I have to carry cash for since the drivers just won't come without cash payments. UPI is better, but they will have the have to fill petrol excuse.
I may be misremembering, but I thought you can fill petrol with UPI too?
I haven't used cash since COVID started and very rarely see anyone else use it either.
I do have enough cash in a side section of my wallet to get me home by taxi from a reasonable distance - just in case.
I do have enough cash in a side section of my wallet to get me home by taxi from a reasonable distance - just in case.
After reading this article so much makes sense. I’m currently at the end of my annual trip here seeing family and I have been hearing these things all over the shop.
I didn’t pay much thought to it until now if I am honest. Genius and great to see tech companies do something to actually help people solve real world problems.
I didn’t pay much thought to it until now if I am honest. Genius and great to see tech companies do something to actually help people solve real world problems.
This makes so much more sense than illiteracy. The phone app could just have a thumbs up with a number or a thumbs down, after all.
It suggests having a tv-like display would work about as well, and be less noisy / distracting.
It suggests having a tv-like display would work about as well, and be less noisy / distracting.
What do you think is cheaper, a touch display with a a chip that can render graphics etc or a speaker playing an audio stream from a webservice?
From a hobby point of view (meaning that I purchase these things in very small quantities), then cost of both of these is comparable.
I'm ignoring the "touchscreen" part, though, because that's not necessary. I'm thinking just a basic, small TFT display.
I'm ignoring the "touchscreen" part, though, because that's not necessary. I'm thinking just a basic, small TFT display.
Why would you need a touch screen? An 8-segment display with 2 clicker buttons for looping through history, and a little bit of memory (like in a calculator) would be enough.
I think a display might consume much more power than a speak, these look like they could, if they aren't already, powered with batteries, while a display could also be powered with batteries it wouldn't last nearly as long, not to mention that you can hear this even if you're not looking at it.
100%, Many small street vendors don't have a power connection. They literally have a LED light connected to a rechargeable battery at night. I have seen these sound boxes, they probably come with their own chargeable battery. Display cost would be factor too. But most importantly they can service fast while not taking their eyes off, like when they are cooking (for street food vendors)
> The device just says the amount received out loud and at that point, the customer can leave with the goods. Haven't seen this tech anywhere else.
I’ve seen this in China many years ago on both PoS terminals and smartphones. Guess it shouldn’t be surprising that Paytm brought this to India, given that Alibaba/Ant Financial at one point had a significant stake in it.
I’ve seen this in China many years ago on both PoS terminals and smartphones. Guess it shouldn’t be surprising that Paytm brought this to India, given that Alibaba/Ant Financial at one point had a significant stake in it.
This role is played by the smart phones in China. The customers pay by scanning the printed QR code, and upon success, the WeChat or Alipay app on the vendor's phone reads out the amount loud.
This has been standard for years in China.
It's amazing how fintech can create actual value when they aren't all just fighting over who gets to salami slice a nation's commerce!
> Digital payments have taken off in a big way in India in recent years due to the government’s unified payments interface (UPI)... But this boom hasn’t helped fintech companies in India as they do not make money from facilitating UPI transactions.
> Digital payments have taken off in a big way in India in recent years due to the government’s unified payments interface (UPI)... But this boom hasn’t helped fintech companies in India as they do not make money from facilitating UPI transactions.
There was definitely massive digital payments drive before the speakers, and the article is exaggerating it’s effects. However, there was a good chunk of vendors who were not happy with the ‘check your phone every time you get a payment’ routine and this solution works out for them perfectly.
Same is happening in Indonesia. The central bank standardized a QR code format for ~all digital payments and people can do cross-platform payments. Makes stuff so much easier.
Literacy rates in India look to be ~80% and climbing about 1% per year. Obviously it'll reach an asymptote, but it's looking like India already surpasses the US in this regard. Of course, given the large population, more Indians are illiterate than there are people in almost every nation. Nonetheless, wouldn't this solution be quite niche?
Source: https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/IND/india/literacy-rat...
Source: https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/IND/india/literacy-rat...
I've interacted with several vendors who use these sound boxes. The article is a bit misleading in the sense that illiteracy is not the primary driver of the usage of these devices. It is a better check-out experience. Vendors were busy and annoyed by the fact that they have to use their phone to confirm payments which often hindered them from doing their routine to sell more stuff. Think about vendors making street foods, actively selling vegetables, etc.
Now all they have to do is listen to the confirmation, directly streamed from the payment gateway vendor's server as soon as receive the money. Minor convenience, agreed, but the service isn't expensive to run (thanks to the minimal hardware it needs and the low data prices in India) and surprisingly even small vendors are okay with paying a subscription fee for it.
Now all they have to do is listen to the confirmation, directly streamed from the payment gateway vendor's server as soon as receive the money. Minor convenience, agreed, but the service isn't expensive to run (thanks to the minimal hardware it needs and the low data prices in India) and surprisingly even small vendors are okay with paying a subscription fee for it.
Yes right.
> The 48-year-old, who can neither read nor write, would need to call his son to confirm that the payment had been received.
Looks like the author made up a narrative. These vendors definitely can read numbers, they manage loads of cash through the day. They do lightening fast calculation in their head - which would put a Math grad student to shame.
They may not be able to read, write English (or other languages) but they are very comfortable with numbers and operations on them (addition, subtractions...).
And they would not need "their son" to confirm the amount (they can read), and also they would recognize a very large green checkmark (an icon to confirm successful transaction), so don't need "their son" for that too.
> The 48-year-old, who can neither read nor write, would need to call his son to confirm that the payment had been received.
Looks like the author made up a narrative. These vendors definitely can read numbers, they manage loads of cash through the day. They do lightening fast calculation in their head - which would put a Math grad student to shame.
They may not be able to read, write English (or other languages) but they are very comfortable with numbers and operations on them (addition, subtractions...).
And they would not need "their son" to confirm the amount (they can read), and also they would recognize a very large green checkmark (an icon to confirm successful transaction), so don't need "their son" for that too.
I wouldn't be so sure about the author making up the narrative, it very well could be real but it is definitely not the majority.
I get what you are saying, but none of this would put "a Math grad student to shame". If you really think it does, you definitely have no clue what grad students do - sincerely, a grad student whose best friend is a math grad student.
I get what you are saying, but none of this would put "a Math grad student to shame". If you really think it does, you definitely have no clue what grad students do - sincerely, a grad student whose best friend is a math grad student.
I saw college students (not indian) fail to answer basic arithmetic questions like 50-13 stuff like that.
He meant they do basic calculations very fast with out a calculator.
He meant they do basic calculations very fast with out a calculator.
I am pretty sure many math grad students are not that great at mental arithmetic, which is the topic here. We are obviously not talking about the kind of advanced maths grad students to.
It is an interesting topic. I remember seeing an article about teaching maths to shopkeepers kids in third world countries. By western standards, they are quasi-illiterate. They are however remarkably good at tasks like giving change. When asked about their reasoning, it involves exchanging bills and goods rather than abstract numbers, and IIRC, they do better than western schoolkids of the same age.
It is an interesting topic. I remember seeing an article about teaching maths to shopkeepers kids in third world countries. By western standards, they are quasi-illiterate. They are however remarkably good at tasks like giving change. When asked about their reasoning, it involves exchanging bills and goods rather than abstract numbers, and IIRC, they do better than western schoolkids of the same age.
Fraud was another reason for the emergence of these sound boxes.
Android store was filled with fake payment screenshot generator apps. People would show the (fake) payment screenshot and leave the shop premises (saying “must be a network problem at your end.”)
After multiple complaints from merchants, Paytm and the likes innovated this affordable idea.
After multiple complaints from merchants, Paytm and the likes innovated this affordable idea.
+1. First time I came across these speakers was when I had tea in a road side tea stall off an highway. The shop was crowded and I held my phone at the owner to show him the evidence of payment which he ignored and within a couple of seconds my payment was announced on the speaker. Great experience!
How exactly does the experience work? e.g:
- How does the customer know how much to send and where?
- How quickly does the confirmation come through? Does it say who the money is from?
- What happens if the vendor is distracted and misses the confirmation for a particular order?1. The merchant tells them the amount and there's a QR code on the box to scan.
2. Within seconds. When I paid while over there it was 2 - 5 seconds. It doesn't say who the money is from though.
3. The merchant has to check their phone or trust the screen on the customers phone.
It works surprisingly well for 95% of use cases. Usually more than one person isn't checking out in parallel. It lets the merchant continue cooking / packing your items / pouring a tea for someone else / etc.
Video demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUR84Qz0KbM
2. Within seconds. When I paid while over there it was 2 - 5 seconds. It doesn't say who the money is from though.
3. The merchant has to check their phone or trust the screen on the customers phone.
It works surprisingly well for 95% of use cases. Usually more than one person isn't checking out in parallel. It lets the merchant continue cooking / packing your items / pouring a tea for someone else / etc.
Video demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUR84Qz0KbM
I would just assume that the vendor's payment app would just play a chime and maybe a readout of the amount received. Every payment app I've used has a notification with name and total when I get money. I'm pretty sure Android can already handle this anyway. Connect the phone to a speaker if you need it louder. Seems like a much cheaper solution than buying a speaker with a built-in modem that you have to pay a monthly fee for unless you just don't own a smartphone.
Not being a street vendor, I’d guess that you:
A) definitely don’t want to leave a smartphone someplace easy to check
B) don’t want to take the time to unlock your smartphone to see the notification
C) do want something that can notify you without taking your attention away from three other customers
A) definitely don’t want to leave a smartphone someplace easy to check
B) don’t want to take the time to unlock your smartphone to see the notification
C) do want something that can notify you without taking your attention away from three other customers
>It is a better check-out experience.
This is exactly it! I remember the time before these speakers became commonplace. You had to wait while the vendor checked his phone, argue if there is a delay in SMS notification, crowded environments meant waiting your turn and in general it was a very real hassle. With these speakers, you do the payment, yell out saying you have done it and go your way (async I/O :-) .
It is one of those small things whose impact is huge in practice. It is a lesson to us techie folks to always concentrate on the "real user experience" rather than imagined ones.
This is exactly it! I remember the time before these speakers became commonplace. You had to wait while the vendor checked his phone, argue if there is a delay in SMS notification, crowded environments meant waiting your turn and in general it was a very real hassle. With these speakers, you do the payment, yell out saying you have done it and go your way (async I/O :-) .
It is one of those small things whose impact is huge in practice. It is a lesson to us techie folks to always concentrate on the "real user experience" rather than imagined ones.
Hmm... but the phones too have speakers, they could have just made their to app read it just like the speaker does it.
Would you live your smartphone out?
And it would also eventually drain the battery/fall/get wet
I really think the form factor is great.
I guess you can’t choose tips so American can’t use it. But I find it a good example of less intrusive tech.
I really think the form factor is great.
I guess you can’t choose tips so American can’t use it. But I find it a good example of less intrusive tech.
Even busy vendors are hopefully able to triangulate. If fraud like that takes off I imagine they’d just relocate the speakers to a high, rear location where customers could never fake it.
> it's looking like India already surpasses the US in this regard
Different standards. India is measuring base literacy, being able to "read and write with understanding a short simple statement about their everyday life" [1]. The comparable counter-statistic in the U.S. is Level 1 illiteracy, or being able to "unable to successfully determine the meaning of sentences, read relatively short texts to locate a single piece of information, or complete simple forms" in English [2]. That figure is 4.1%. (A Spanish-speaking physics PhD would count.)
[1] https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/IND/india/literacy-rat...
[2] https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2019/2019179.pdf
Different standards. India is measuring base literacy, being able to "read and write with understanding a short simple statement about their everyday life" [1]. The comparable counter-statistic in the U.S. is Level 1 illiteracy, or being able to "unable to successfully determine the meaning of sentences, read relatively short texts to locate a single piece of information, or complete simple forms" in English [2]. That figure is 4.1%. (A Spanish-speaking physics PhD would count.)
[1] https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/IND/india/literacy-rat...
[2] https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2019/2019179.pdf
You think you can get a PhD in physics without learning to read basic English? Not this century.
I thought you were joking about India surpassing the US in literacy rates, and then I looked it up. It's 75 - 85% depending on how you count. What?!
How is this number not 99.9%? Developed countries are at 100% or minus rounding error. Even Canada is at 99%, and that's next door. What is going on in the US?
How is this number not 99.9%? Developed countries are at 100% or minus rounding error. Even Canada is at 99%, and that's next door. What is going on in the US?
I would suggest you double check what definition of literacy the different countries are using. Perhaps the US has a more stringent definition?
As an example, for a long time Germany used a way to measure unemployment that yielded consistently higher numbers than most of the rest of the world. So any honest international comparison had to make adjustments.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States
> In many nations, the ability to read a simple sentence suffices as literacy, and was the previous standard for the U.S. The definition of literacy has changed greatly; the term is presently defined as the ability to use printed and written information to function in society, to achieve one's goals, and to develop one's knowledge and potential.[3]
As an example, for a long time Germany used a way to measure unemployment that yielded consistently higher numbers than most of the rest of the world. So any honest international comparison had to make adjustments.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States
> In many nations, the ability to read a simple sentence suffices as literacy, and was the previous standard for the U.S. The definition of literacy has changed greatly; the term is presently defined as the ability to use printed and written information to function in society, to achieve one's goals, and to develop one's knowledge and potential.[3]
You also need to see if it’s from official reports based on testing or statistical reports based on surveys. Many people who are counted literate are functionally illiterate- they car recognize street signs, their name, etc but not much more.
It is not a fair comparison. In India, the definition of "literacy" does not mean functional literacy in India ... merely knowledge of the alphabet is enough to qualify ("akshar gyan").
> depending on how you count
I think you got it right there. Be wary of cross-nation statistics without context.
I think you got it right there. Be wary of cross-nation statistics without context.
I suspect a lot of this is variance on surveying methods. I could see "Literacy" be defined anywhere from "able to read the survey enough to pick out where to mark "yes/no" and "sign here"" to "Able to read YA novels", and in the US it could well be "English literacy" versus "Any literacy". I knew plenty of kids growing up who had grandparents living with them that could read Mandarin or Spanish just fine, but who had pretty limited English skills.
I'm not sure our Department of Education is effective, and I think some children actually are being left behind, despite the "no child left behind" effort.
Why even consider that another standard could be in use, like others have pointed out in the thread, when you have political priors to confirm? Stay classy HN!
I was stunned to learn that the average American reads at a 5th grade level. It's true though. I've been wondering why for a while, since it explains so much... Here's my best guess:
13 million children face daily hunger, and politicians fight to take away school lunches. Hungry kids don't learn too good.
Fear porn is blasted over every corporate media outlet constantly, to the point where it saturates culture. People who feel unsafe don't learn too good.
Schools are funded based on local taxes. Neither political 'team' seems determined to change this. Teachers often have to buy school supplies out of their own meagre pocket. Kids in schools that don't have money don't learn too good.
School boards refuse to integrate modern understanding of best practices - homework is useless, school starts too early, multi-modal learning works way better, spaced repetition works great, bullying isn't a fact of life to be accepted and ignored. Bullied, tired kids don't learn too good.
Publishing monopolies charge hundreds of dollars for textbooks, altering 1984 and children's stories to be "safer", and holding back anything that might upset their comfortable position.
Hundreds of years of the world's most sophisticated anti-intellectual propaganda has allowed America to be world leaders in producing people that think education is scary.
Blaming poor people for their own problems is a national sport.
These attitudes have been with America for hundreds of years, and no amount of fight from Mark Twain, or Thoreau, or Einstein, or Bernie has changed those fundamentals of American culture.
There's no political motive to change any of this. As George Carlin put it so well: "Governments don't want a population capable of critical thinking, they want obedient workers, people just smart enough to run the machines and just dumb enough to passively accept their situation." America are undisputed world leaders in this (except in America, where this is seen as socialist talk and therefore safe to ignore).
Media, corporations and government conspire to prevent any third party or group from changing the social situation - look at what happened to OWS, or MLK, or Fred Hampton.
Any progression toward helping people get safe and educated is labeled communism, and the DNC conspires with media to mess up anyone too "radical" that runs as a Democrat.
Nobody on TV talks about how many teachers we could have trained with the 20 trillion dollars spent bombing Middle Eastern families - it's a lot.
So, a lot is going on in America. I didn't even mention the drugs, the housing situation, the bank crises, the environmental poisoning, the disconnection from nature, the lack of exercise, the poor quality food or God knows how much else.
Some will say I must hate America to write this stuff - people who say things like this get accused of being Putin's puppets, or worse, socialists. But I love America, which is why I hate to see what is happening to it and refuse to pretend these problems will be solved without even acknowledging them.
13 million children face daily hunger, and politicians fight to take away school lunches. Hungry kids don't learn too good.
Fear porn is blasted over every corporate media outlet constantly, to the point where it saturates culture. People who feel unsafe don't learn too good.
Schools are funded based on local taxes. Neither political 'team' seems determined to change this. Teachers often have to buy school supplies out of their own meagre pocket. Kids in schools that don't have money don't learn too good.
School boards refuse to integrate modern understanding of best practices - homework is useless, school starts too early, multi-modal learning works way better, spaced repetition works great, bullying isn't a fact of life to be accepted and ignored. Bullied, tired kids don't learn too good.
Publishing monopolies charge hundreds of dollars for textbooks, altering 1984 and children's stories to be "safer", and holding back anything that might upset their comfortable position.
Hundreds of years of the world's most sophisticated anti-intellectual propaganda has allowed America to be world leaders in producing people that think education is scary.
Blaming poor people for their own problems is a national sport.
These attitudes have been with America for hundreds of years, and no amount of fight from Mark Twain, or Thoreau, or Einstein, or Bernie has changed those fundamentals of American culture.
There's no political motive to change any of this. As George Carlin put it so well: "Governments don't want a population capable of critical thinking, they want obedient workers, people just smart enough to run the machines and just dumb enough to passively accept their situation." America are undisputed world leaders in this (except in America, where this is seen as socialist talk and therefore safe to ignore).
Media, corporations and government conspire to prevent any third party or group from changing the social situation - look at what happened to OWS, or MLK, or Fred Hampton.
Any progression toward helping people get safe and educated is labeled communism, and the DNC conspires with media to mess up anyone too "radical" that runs as a Democrat.
Nobody on TV talks about how many teachers we could have trained with the 20 trillion dollars spent bombing Middle Eastern families - it's a lot.
So, a lot is going on in America. I didn't even mention the drugs, the housing situation, the bank crises, the environmental poisoning, the disconnection from nature, the lack of exercise, the poor quality food or God knows how much else.
Some will say I must hate America to write this stuff - people who say things like this get accused of being Putin's puppets, or worse, socialists. But I love America, which is why I hate to see what is happening to it and refuse to pretend these problems will be solved without even acknowledging them.
There are two causes to consider. The failure of society to provide equal opportunities to all, and the failure of individuals to capitalize on what opportunities they have available.
The trouble with your criticism is that you are focusing entirely on society’s failures, when a more complete analysis would consider what can be done on either side.
The trouble with your criticism is that you are focusing entirely on society’s failures, when a more complete analysis would consider what can be done on either side.
> and the failure of individuals to capitalize on what opportunities they have available
Yeah, we could blame the 5 year olds for their lack of grit and determination to create their foundation for their reading skills. Alternatively, we can look at what other societies achieve, and try to improve our own.
Also you are completely ignoring that plenty of people have functional difficulties learning to read and write. Anecdotally I would say over 10% based on my dyslexic or illiterate friends and family, some of which had professional focused help beyond what schooling provides. I agree with you that the education system has its faults, and some people “fail to capitalise opportunities”. However there is a large segment of people that are motivated, work hard, get good educational opportunities, and yet still struggle to read and write. There are people with denial or bullshit reasons too, but too many of my friends and family have symptoms that I have good reasons to believe they are not making anything up.
My 10% figure ignores functional meta-level difficulties for lacking motivation. Perhaps born without grit and determination; perhaps never taught it; perhaps other home problems trump it.
Yeah, we could blame the 5 year olds for their lack of grit and determination to create their foundation for their reading skills. Alternatively, we can look at what other societies achieve, and try to improve our own.
Also you are completely ignoring that plenty of people have functional difficulties learning to read and write. Anecdotally I would say over 10% based on my dyslexic or illiterate friends and family, some of which had professional focused help beyond what schooling provides. I agree with you that the education system has its faults, and some people “fail to capitalise opportunities”. However there is a large segment of people that are motivated, work hard, get good educational opportunities, and yet still struggle to read and write. There are people with denial or bullshit reasons too, but too many of my friends and family have symptoms that I have good reasons to believe they are not making anything up.
My 10% figure ignores functional meta-level difficulties for lacking motivation. Perhaps born without grit and determination; perhaps never taught it; perhaps other home problems trump it.
We shouldn’t blame 5 year olds, sure, but their parents? Fair game IMO.
This is not to say that society is without blame, but I feel that personal responsibility is increasingly left out of the public discourse
This is not to say that society is without blame, but I feel that personal responsibility is increasingly left out of the public discourse
Sure, everyone ought to do what they can to better themselves. That's for another comment, because the question was, what is it about America that has literacy skills at such a shameful level.
It's not Brad's fault that he can't read good. It's not Chad's fault that he hasn't picked up a book. These hypothetical kids are 6, 7, 8 years old.
That's on us, and our willingness to allow their home lives to be miserable rather than pay for mental health supports and education as a society.
It's not Brad's fault that he can't read good. It's not Chad's fault that he hasn't picked up a book. These hypothetical kids are 6, 7, 8 years old.
That's on us, and our willingness to allow their home lives to be miserable rather than pay for mental health supports and education as a society.
Parents should be putting books into these kids hands. Society can not replace the role of a parent.
We can and should help the parents, and the first step is assessing the root of the problem, and sometimes that looks a lot more like laying blame than some folks are willing to do
We can and should help the parents, and the first step is assessing the root of the problem, and sometimes that looks a lot more like laying blame than some folks are willing to do
> Schools are funded based on local taxes. Neither political 'team' seems determined to change this. Teachers often have to buy school supplies out of their own meagre pocket. Kids in schools that don't have money don't learn too good.
This one is mostly a myth. States and federal grants will equalize money per pupil across different school districts. Some of the worst performing school districts in the country also have the highest per-capital spending.
This one is mostly a myth. States and federal grants will equalize money per pupil across different school districts. Some of the worst performing school districts in the country also have the highest per-capital spending.
This stat probably includes older Americans in their 80s and 90s. Many immigrated in their teens, from small villages, in the early 1940s/50s. Let's say you left rural Italy in 1940, as an 11 year old. Started working in America at 16, in 1946. Many jobs in America at that time didn't require much literacy, for example working in a textile mill, or an assembly line.
Your post includes some good commentary identifying issues with the educational system, specifically about fostering a healthy, effective learning environment as well as commentary about mis-allocating resources. However, it also includes lots of specific blaming and accusations which, to me, distracted from the helpful elements.
I'm curious if you think the best path forward would be to keep pushing for the federal government to do better with education, or if it would be better to empower more local entities to improve. This could be state, county, or city governments, or even private school systems.
I'm curious if you think the best path forward would be to keep pushing for the federal government to do better with education, or if it would be better to empower more local entities to improve. This could be state, county, or city governments, or even private school systems.
How does Finland do it? Copy them as much as possible, since it's clearly working. Gaps in Finlands system? Pay experts to figure it out. I don't claim to be an expert - you don't need to be, to see how bad the current system is.
If we can afford $20 trillion on interest payments for illegal wars on the other side of the planet, we can figure out how to fund schools.
Not sure what you mean by "specific blaming and accusations" - there are real forces fighting back against educating children in a safe and happy environment.
They're not even that sneaky about it. Pretending that extremely well funded and organised and power groups are not, for example, banning books, abortion, cutting school funds, cancelling school lunch programs, giving millions in TANF funds to dried out quarterbacks, etc, etc, is like ignoring the termites eating away at the foundations of your house while spending all your money on grenades to protect from home invaders.
If we can afford $20 trillion on interest payments for illegal wars on the other side of the planet, we can figure out how to fund schools.
Not sure what you mean by "specific blaming and accusations" - there are real forces fighting back against educating children in a safe and happy environment.
They're not even that sneaky about it. Pretending that extremely well funded and organised and power groups are not, for example, banning books, abortion, cutting school funds, cancelling school lunch programs, giving millions in TANF funds to dried out quarterbacks, etc, etc, is like ignoring the termites eating away at the foundations of your house while spending all your money on grenades to protect from home invaders.
> If we can afford $20 trillion on interest payments for illegal wars on the other side of the planet, we can figure out how to fund schools.
This assumes that schooling makes a difference.
This assumes that schooling makes a difference.
Public education has been gutted for decades in this country.
Public K-12 education spending increased from 2.3% of American GDP in 1950 to 5.5% of GDP in 2015. [0]
See https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/us-education-expenditure-... (as linked from https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/education-commentary-is... )
Educational achievement in the US has been roughly the same as in the 1950s. It seems almost as if public education doesn't matter?
[0] Keep in mind that American real GDP per capital increased enormously over time as well. See https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/A939RX0Q048SBEA
See https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/us-education-expenditure-... (as linked from https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/education-commentary-is... )
Educational achievement in the US has been roughly the same as in the 1950s. It seems almost as if public education doesn't matter?
[0] Keep in mind that American real GDP per capital increased enormously over time as well. See https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/A939RX0Q048SBEA
There is more going on here than literacy. Even if you are illiterate, if you tell someone to pay 10 rupees you could see if 10 rupees made it to your account.
Do those vendors not have smartphones? That's what I am suspecting. If they did, an app could announce it and you wouldn't need the external speaker.
The speakers seem to be directly connected to the cellular network. And rented for ridiculously small fees.
Do those vendors not have smartphones? That's what I am suspecting. If they did, an app could announce it and you wouldn't need the external speaker.
The speakers seem to be directly connected to the cellular network. And rented for ridiculously small fees.
Yes, the vendors have smartphones. The smartphones' speakers are not loud enough to announce over the road noise and general buzz in Indian shops. It would also be too distracting to keep looking down on the phone.
Now that I think about it, I am not sure why they didn't just announce using the smartphone speaker - I've seen several vendors with smartphones still using these boxes.
Granted, many vendors don't have smart phones, and perhaps sound boxes started with them. I think the fintech companies saw the opportunity and decided to not implement it their app for users with smartphone. Given that they are so cheap, I guess the vendors even with smart phones decided to get them anyway.
Granted, many vendors don't have smart phones, and perhaps sound boxes started with them. I think the fintech companies saw the opportunity and decided to not implement it their app for users with smartphone. Given that they are so cheap, I guess the vendors even with smart phones decided to get them anyway.
But it's good that there are options. Many of us aged 40+ can't read HN-sized text anymore, and the prevalence of presbyopia among UI designers is evidently 0%. Throw in glare from sunlight, a busy storefront where you constantly need your hands and eyes elsewhere, etc.
Africa is possibly another target. Its literacy rates are a little bit under India's, and it's another place where digital payments have gone big, even earlier than India.
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/SSF/sub-saharan-africa...
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/SSF/sub-saharan-africa...
20% (~300M) illiterate skews old, higher % of whom are active in workforce and will be for decades. Not that ~300M is "niche" as you said, but think of it technology that helps 50% of the workforce vs 20% of population.
> Obviously it'll reach an asymptote
I think you mean the increase will level off.
An "asymptote" would mean it is always getting closer to some target number, and there is no reason that would be 'obviously' true.
I think you mean the increase will level off.
An "asymptote" would mean it is always getting closer to some target number, and there is no reason that would be 'obviously' true.
"Obviously, it'll asymptotically approach an upper bound and level off." I do think my meaning was clear, but yes you're correct.
Not mentioned in the article but I asked a shopkeeper why they use it. Answer is fraud. Earlier, customers would download a "fake" app, which miciked online gateway's UI. Customer would punch in money, and show to shopkeeper that "payment went through". Customer takes goods with them and leaves. Shopkeeper looses money.
With this sound box, shopkeeper gives goods ONLY after the box makes sound. Now imagine if a elderly or illiterate relative of shopowner is manning the shop. They may not know how to operate their "banking" app to make sure money has reached. The sound box removes that problem.
With this sound box, shopkeeper gives goods ONLY after the box makes sound. Now imagine if a elderly or illiterate relative of shopowner is manning the shop. They may not know how to operate their "banking" app to make sure money has reached. The sound box removes that problem.
"Fraud" is too friendly a word for this. It's just theft from a person who probably is having a much harder time making ends meet than the person stealing. Theft is never a pleasant topic but stealing from somebody with much less financial means than you is morally bankrupt.
It's mentioned.
> Balwant Singh, 32, runs a grocery store in New Delhi with his mother. He bought a Paytm Soundbox in 2020 after realizing digital payment receipts could be doctored. “[Before sound boxes], people were using apps to create fake payment receipts. I got conned a few times,” he told Rest of World.
The soundbox does seem useful. What you mentioned is all in the article.
> Abbas Ali, a vegetable vendor in an upscale neighborhood in New Delhi, started accepting digital payments in 2021. But every time a customer paid online, the 48-year-old, who can neither read nor write, would need to call his son to confirm that the payment had been received.
> Balwant Singh, 32, runs a grocery store in New Delhi with his mother. He bought a Paytm Soundbox in 2020 after realizing digital payment receipts could be doctored. “[Before sound boxes], people were using apps to create fake payment receipts. I got conned a few times,” he told Rest of World.
The soundbox does seem useful. What you mentioned is all in the article.
> Abbas Ali, a vegetable vendor in an upscale neighborhood in New Delhi, started accepting digital payments in 2021. But every time a customer paid online, the 48-year-old, who can neither read nor write, would need to call his son to confirm that the payment had been received.
Another thing that helps this boom is, in India no one has any problem in sharing their phone number with strangers. Delivery workers, Cab drivers, Restaurant waitlist, you name it. So payment send and receive with just mobile number as the primary key becomes easier.
Wow not true at all, everybody hesitates to bring forced to give mobile number at the supermarket it cloth stores for no good reason than to feed into FB/Google in bulk.
For paying a bill you're just scanning the QR most of the time, it's only P2P like cabs/autos when you may have to scan the drivers personal QR. Gpay & others apart from BHIM tend to already generate or allow alphanumeric UPI ID.
For paying a bill you're just scanning the QR most of the time, it's only P2P like cabs/autos when you may have to scan the drivers personal QR. Gpay & others apart from BHIM tend to already generate or allow alphanumeric UPI ID.
This is one of the most unique things about India that I haven't seen in any other country - the openness and community between its citizens. Especially proud to be Indian!
There is also Virtual Payment Address (VPA) attached to account wiht legit number and bank acct which is good enough to use (share /scan QR code ) with merchant/user name.
That seems to be working in Singapore as well.
video of it in action (english subtitles)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUR84Qz0KbM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUR84Qz0KbM
Interesting thank you for the video.
I was going to comment on this post wondering how it's more efficient than just the merchant looking at a fixed screen which shows the incoming transactions.
But the video demonstrates why the audio interface is better, it allows them to multi-task. Sort of like how listening to radio/podcasts doesn't tie you down to somewhere like watching the TV does.
I was going to comment on this post wondering how it's more efficient than just the merchant looking at a fixed screen which shows the incoming transactions.
But the video demonstrates why the audio interface is better, it allows them to multi-task. Sort of like how listening to radio/podcasts doesn't tie you down to somewhere like watching the TV does.
Exactly! I expounded in a comment below, but among the benefits, imagine being elbow deep in batter and having to check transactions, better a speaker that tells you.
So the merchant has to buy/rent a device. I expected it to be phone-to-phone for such wide acceptance.
from my research, here is what I've found:
1- The govt insists the payments be done on their national backbone, which works on 0 markup, so companies have to find different avenues for revenue
2- The device is essentially a mobile phone with no display(newest version has a small pocket-calculator sized lcd, but most do not) and just four buttons: power, volume up, volume down, and repeat last message. It takes a SIM and has a rechargeable battery and a loud speaker.
3- This means essentially operators a renting a very specialised "dumb-phone"; one which has a simple audio output but no input (and thus access) to the actual app. They can leave this "phone" out in the public, while keeping their smartphone separate and secluded.
4- The device rent is lowered or even waived if you have a high-enough transaction volume. So for people who have a low usage, they can stick with checking their phone; for people with more frequent usage, it pays for it self.
----
I see a lot of benefits for this. AFAIK, each device is keyed to the user, so stealing it not beneficial, but even if some one did, no can use it to access the app or your funds, since all it does is receive confirmation SMS.
There no training involved, and more importantly, no handover of a device anytime you to step away from a counter; anyone can take over and just listen to the confirmation message.
one benefit the article mentioned is that people would dupe the seller by showing fake screenshots of a transaction, how that was eliminated by the device; no sound message, no payment.
But the best benefit is the multi-tasking; you can use your hands and eyes to keep focused on the task at hand while using your ears to keep track of payments. Imagine a food-stall seller having to wipe their grease/sauce covered hands and fiddle with a slippery phone, anytime a customer paid, it would never work.
1- The govt insists the payments be done on their national backbone, which works on 0 markup, so companies have to find different avenues for revenue
2- The device is essentially a mobile phone with no display(newest version has a small pocket-calculator sized lcd, but most do not) and just four buttons: power, volume up, volume down, and repeat last message. It takes a SIM and has a rechargeable battery and a loud speaker.
3- This means essentially operators a renting a very specialised "dumb-phone"; one which has a simple audio output but no input (and thus access) to the actual app. They can leave this "phone" out in the public, while keeping their smartphone separate and secluded.
4- The device rent is lowered or even waived if you have a high-enough transaction volume. So for people who have a low usage, they can stick with checking their phone; for people with more frequent usage, it pays for it self.
----
I see a lot of benefits for this. AFAIK, each device is keyed to the user, so stealing it not beneficial, but even if some one did, no can use it to access the app or your funds, since all it does is receive confirmation SMS.
There no training involved, and more importantly, no handover of a device anytime you to step away from a counter; anyone can take over and just listen to the confirmation message.
one benefit the article mentioned is that people would dupe the seller by showing fake screenshots of a transaction, how that was eliminated by the device; no sound message, no payment.
But the best benefit is the multi-tasking; you can use your hands and eyes to keep focused on the task at hand while using your ears to keep track of payments. Imagine a food-stall seller having to wipe their grease/sauce covered hands and fiddle with a slippery phone, anytime a customer paid, it would never work.
> it would never work
Ask Thailand and their QR-code based payments, TrueMoney and "Thai QR", because that's exactly how they work. Maybe scammers are less prevalent in Thailand than in India so they go by trust, even in 7-Elevens.
Ask Thailand and their QR-code based payments, TrueMoney and "Thai QR", because that's exactly how they work. Maybe scammers are less prevalent in Thailand than in India so they go by trust, even in 7-Elevens.
I'd be really surprised if 7-Eleven employees used personal or company-provided smartphones to confirm payments.
For most QR payment systems, the flow for smaller merchants is customers scanning a printed QR code (optionally with common amounts pre-populated) and the merchant receiving a notification (so no need to actually open any app to confirm payments, and the merchant app could easily assign different ringtones to different payment amounts). This is the use case in which these speakers make a lot of sense.
But for larger merchants with a POS, the clerk usually scans the customer's (dynamic) QR code and initiates the payment that way. Alternatively, an existing POS payments terminal can display a one-time and transaction-linked code that the customer scans.
For tax and reporting reasons alone, payments practically need to be bound to a given transaction/receipt number.
For most QR payment systems, the flow for smaller merchants is customers scanning a printed QR code (optionally with common amounts pre-populated) and the merchant receiving a notification (so no need to actually open any app to confirm payments, and the merchant app could easily assign different ringtones to different payment amounts). This is the use case in which these speakers make a lot of sense.
But for larger merchants with a POS, the clerk usually scans the customer's (dynamic) QR code and initiates the payment that way. Alternatively, an existing POS payments terminal can display a one-time and transaction-linked code that the customer scans.
For tax and reporting reasons alone, payments practically need to be bound to a given transaction/receipt number.
> For tax and reporting reasons alone, payments practically need to be bound to a given transaction/receipt number.
Cash doesn't work like that, so some countries might not require this link even for some cashless payments. Heck I receive money transfers in EU and US that don't have any numbers in them, and they're not $2.
Cash doesn't work like that, so some countries might not require this link even for some cashless payments. Heck I receive money transfers in EU and US that don't have any numbers in them, and they're not $2.
It's just not screenshots. Initially the payment apps added moving icons/pictures to differentiate screenshots with actual payment confirmation screens. As a response, some people made specialized apps which dynamically recreated the same exact payment confirmation screen of the popular apps with moving parts, fake transaction id etc.
I imagine in thailand, the person elbow deep in batter is not the person checking payments?
I wonder how it works for one-person stalls...
I wonder how it works for one-person stalls...
Nope, same, they also have one-person street food vendors
do you think such payment flow would work in the US / in the EU as well? I know that for example in Sweden Swish is super popular and you can pay with it in stores by scanning QR code (and then showing your phone to the merchant) - seems like such device could fit there perfectly.
It definitely could, but I really hope it doesn't. Contactless payments are both more convenient and more secure than (even dynamic) QR code payments. (Whether the device manufacturer should have a monopoly on NFC-based payments is a different question, and one under active regulatory scrutiny at that.)
So, in addition to the QR code, add a NFC device to the speaker, the rest of the story is the same, IMHO
In America there's contactless payments with your phone. The merchant's POS will confirm the transaction like it would with card or cash.
They talk about how sometimes people would show them doctored receipts to scam them- how much longer before people start recording the "Paid Rs 50" voice and playing it back off their phones?
Not sure what the fix for that would be- reading off the time/date, a small integrated display, or maybe it's just not an issue.
Not sure what the fix for that would be- reading off the time/date, a small integrated display, or maybe it's just not an issue.
This speaker is with the merchant. I am sure the merchant can distinguish between a sound coming from their speaker vs sound coming from someone's mobile.
The vendor being able to instantly take out a loan is the real kicker here. If even a relatively small percentage of shopkeepers do this it will enable economic growth only seen in places like China in the 1990s, the effect will be multiplicative throughout the economy
Only if they can pay back the loan otherwise you just end up with a banking crisis.
True but this isn’t inflation of assets it’s money for goods purchases by the sounds of it which is a lot less susceptible to bubbles
I was so happy to read that part. A triumph of capitalism, if it takes off.
Everyone deserves the right to a fair and quick evaluation of their default risk to get access to capital on margin. It’s the best way to get people to invest in themselves and their communities.
Everyone deserves the right to a fair and quick evaluation of their default risk to get access to capital on margin. It’s the best way to get people to invest in themselves and their communities.
> Six months after subscribing, Singh received an instant loan of 3 lakh rupees (around $3,600) from Paytm. He used the money to add more products to his store. “I had never thought of taking up a loan since it involves lots of paperwork and could take months to get processed. Here, I got it instantly so I took it up,” he said. After he paid it off, Singh took another loan from Paytm for 5 lakh rupees (around $6,000).
This a brilliant strategy for generating proof of financial transactions and thus making small businesses eligible for credit.
This a brilliant strategy for generating proof of financial transactions and thus making small businesses eligible for credit.
Am I crazy here? If you're buying a device, why not buy an EFTPOS (credit card/touch pay) machine that facilitates the transaction?
Is Google/Apple Pay not prevelant in India? Given they're paying by their phone, surely it is?
I feel like I'm missing something here, this method seems more complex than the now standard "tap your phone on the machine" in my country. The banks give them out for free or a small fee (they take a fee per transaction) or the vendors use a third party like Square.
Is Google/Apple Pay not prevelant in India? Given they're paying by their phone, surely it is?
I feel like I'm missing something here, this method seems more complex than the now standard "tap your phone on the machine" in my country. The banks give them out for free or a small fee (they take a fee per transaction) or the vendors use a third party like Square.
The reason could because of how these payments apps evolved.
People already had cheap android phones in their hand. After the 4g boom, many got their first smartphone.
UPI related playment apps started with QR code scanning, just like in China.
There is no extra cost to the vendor. All they need is a sticker with their QR, which customers can scan. Later, they came up with a (bluetooth) speaker which can announce payments. It doesn't even need a connected smartphone.
If they used cards, they need to manufacture it and the readers. Ship them to their home addresses (which is complicated and lossy), train them about card usage.
For many vendors who accepted UPI payments, it was their first time accepting something other than cash as payments.
People already had cheap android phones in their hand. After the 4g boom, many got their first smartphone.
UPI related playment apps started with QR code scanning, just like in China.
There is no extra cost to the vendor. All they need is a sticker with their QR, which customers can scan. Later, they came up with a (bluetooth) speaker which can announce payments. It doesn't even need a connected smartphone.
If they used cards, they need to manufacture it and the readers. Ship them to their home addresses (which is complicated and lossy), train them about card usage.
For many vendors who accepted UPI payments, it was their first time accepting something other than cash as payments.
The tap & pay model is an extension of payment using credit cards which has been the preferred payment method in the west for decades. On the other hand, credit cards never caught on in India, specially among the middle and lower middle class folks which is a large chunk of the population. So while the west underwent evolution from paper currency to credit cards to digital payments, India skipped the credit card generation and went straight for digital payments thanks to cheap android phones and free/subsidized/cheap 3G/4G data costs.
PhonePe translates to "on the phone" in Hindi. And, of course, it reads like "phone pay" in English. A nice touch.
Sounds very much like the Vipps system we have in Scandinavia, particularly Norway, with the addition of something like the Android Voice Notify app which reads Android notification. My mobile phone has been doing this for years. Whenever I receive a payment it reads it out to me. No need for any new devices.
Is it a crazy suggestion that you could put a display on the smart speaker and teach a small subset of literacy for them to see what is being said?
Could someone learn a small amount that way?
I've seen countless stories of people who come to the US and learn some english by watching TV with the close captions turned on, has to work elsewhere?
Could someone learn a small amount that way?
I've seen countless stories of people who come to the US and learn some english by watching TV with the close captions turned on, has to work elsewhere?
As discussed in other comments, illiteracy is not the primary driver of these devices. To some extent it is, but not a significant chunk. It’ll probably also make the device more expensive.
More likely the audible confirmation allows everyone to know you paid, and the shopkeeper doesnt have to keep his eyes on a device all day. Easier for everyone.
What's cheaper to program and produce: a speaker or a display and chip?
I think that this device is super smart. It's a "cell phone" chip that "reads" the texts out loud when received from a hardcoded number. It could cost a few dollars.
The only cheaper thing would be upcycling existing smartphones, but that would be a support nightmare.
I think that this device is super smart. It's a "cell phone" chip that "reads" the texts out loud when received from a hardcoded number. It could cost a few dollars.
The only cheaper thing would be upcycling existing smartphones, but that would be a support nightmare.
I remember seeing these at vegetable stands and thinking it was a goofy shopkeeper quirk, didn't realize how useful of a feature this was to shopkeepers. Kudos to PayTM for a very good solution to speeding up digital payments across society
Why is it taking 10 minutes to confirm payment...?
Edit: For some reason it's mentioned nowhere in the article, but it's because these are cryptocurrency transactions
Edit: For some reason it's mentioned nowhere in the article, but it's because these are cryptocurrency transactions
Another user is claiming:
>Not mentioned in the article but I asked a shopkeeper why they use it. Answer is fraud. Earlier, customers would download a "fake" app, which miciked online gateway's UI. Customer would punch in money, and show to shopkeeper that "payment went through". Customer takes goods with them and leaves. Shopkeeper looses money.
I don't think half of India is using crypto currency transactions everyday. So this explanation makes more sense.
>Not mentioned in the article but I asked a shopkeeper why they use it. Answer is fraud. Earlier, customers would download a "fake" app, which miciked online gateway's UI. Customer would punch in money, and show to shopkeeper that "payment went through". Customer takes goods with them and leaves. Shopkeeper looses money.
I don't think half of India is using crypto currency transactions everyday. So this explanation makes more sense.
You might be right. I searched the name of the company and the CEO is a strong supporter of cryptocurrency, but there's no indication that their products are actually cryptocurrency related.
Still wouldn't make sense for there to be a 10 minute wait, unless the backend servers are just as clogged and unusable as popular blockchains are.
(Possibly crazy conspiracy theory w/ no basis in reality: The company is putting in `sleep(5mins + jitter)` into each transaction to prepare a fresh open-minded market for future cryptocurrency adoption when the legislative environment allows for it)
Still wouldn't make sense for there to be a 10 minute wait, unless the backend servers are just as clogged and unusable as popular blockchains are.
(Possibly crazy conspiracy theory w/ no basis in reality: The company is putting in `sleep(5mins + jitter)` into each transaction to prepare a fresh open-minded market for future cryptocurrency adoption when the legislative environment allows for it)
They do charge a subscription fee for it, but sadly enough this could have been done with any speaker they had & using the official app as well
But could it have been done with the resilience/volume/sound quality/redundancy/etc of the speaker?
A situation that comes to mind is a vendor stepping away to go to the bathroom, and asking their neighboring vendor to sell while they are gone. A cheap enough, but fail proof and versatile solution is not necessarily a waste.
A situation that comes to mind is a vendor stepping away to go to the bathroom, and asking their neighboring vendor to sell while they are gone. A cheap enough, but fail proof and versatile solution is not necessarily a waste.
At less than a USD a month--currency vs. cost of living conversion--this subscription is extremely cheap considering the many positives: confirmation of payment from a new revenue stream, multiple language support, low-ish latency, fraud prevention for the seller. While a lot of Indians have smartphones, this speaker is the ideal example of a device that solves one specific problem and nothing else.
That would require leaving a smartphone and a speaker lying around where they might be stolen. Having it be a cheap, single-use device reduces the incentive for theft.
You can buy a smartphone good enough for the job for less than 60 GBP even in the UK, I'm sure they can be had for considerably less in India. And it doesn't need to be lying around, the user can have it on them.
It's 200 Rs/mo as per a shopkeeper I talked to. It's pretty affordable for many shops as it cuts down on fraud a bit and they see utility in it.
i can see how this might seem like a foreign idea for a speaker to announce how much you spent in a store to everyone nearby. but in practice, for small neighbourhood stores, this is just fine. a good implementation of hdi.
Digital payment transactions stand at 8.5B per month. It's just mind-blowing
Sounds like globalists want to enslave India as well.
More than anything to do with literacy, this basically allows Shopkeeper to keep doing what they are doing without fiddling with their phones etc to confirm they received money. The device just says the amount received out loud and at that point, the customer can leave with the goods. Haven't seen this tech anywhere else.
In my latest trip, I don't believe I paid cash in any shop and I was in a second tier city the whole time, not one of the big metropolitan cities.