[untitled]
10 comments
[deleted]
> Italy has 58 million inhabitants. At 280k/year, together with the 8% of immigrants already there, such a policy would reduce native Italians to just 62% of their own country in a mere century. However, that ignores their sub-replacement fertility, which would probably see them become a minority in this time, in what used to be their country.
> Italians themselves evidently don't want their grandchildren to lose claim over the only country they can call home. But because their food doesn't pass some ridiculous purity test, the author believes their desire not to share Italy with the whole world is illegitimate?
This assumes that the migrants for that 100 years go live in decoupled ghettos and never integrate with the native population. Otherwise, what do you call someone born in Italy, to parents born in Italy, and their grandparents were born in Italy, Italy, Nigeria and Ukraine? I think most people, including in Italy, would happily call them Italian.
> Italians themselves evidently don't want their grandchildren to lose claim over the only country they can call home. But because their food doesn't pass some ridiculous purity test, the author believes their desire not to share Italy with the whole world is illegitimate?
This assumes that the migrants for that 100 years go live in decoupled ghettos and never integrate with the native population. Otherwise, what do you call someone born in Italy, to parents born in Italy, and their grandparents were born in Italy, Italy, Nigeria and Ukraine? I think most people, including in Italy, would happily call them Italian.
> This assumes that the migrants for that 100 years go live in decoupled ghettos and never integrate with the native population.
There is a sizable Turkish minority in Germany, starting from the Gastarbeiter programs of the 1960s, around 80 years ago. Integration hasn't been great, with even today those of Turkish ethnic origin being 20% unemployed vs. 6% for the ethnic Germans.
Of course, there are many complex reasons for this: Germans didn't want Turks to become Germans to a degree, with those of Turkish origin not being eligible for German citizenship until 2000. Erdogan gave a speech on German soil encouraging Turks to not assimilate into German culture. And obviously someone of Turkish origin whose family immigrated 80 years ago would likely behave differently than a newcomer.
> Otherwise, what do you call someone born in Italy, to parents born in Italy, and their grandparents were born in Italy, Italy, Nigeria and Ukraine?
Half of their ancestry is Italian and that might convince most Italians to call them Italian, if they speak, behave, and mostly look like other Italians. But what if their grandparents were born in Nigeria, Ukraine, Iraq, and Pakistan? Old World countries are not the same as New World countries in that regard. The majority of Koreans, for example, would not consider someone who wasn't ethnically Korean to be Korean even if they spoke the language fluently, was in tune with the culture, and was born in Korea. Jus sanguinis applies culturally as well as legally.
There is a sizable Turkish minority in Germany, starting from the Gastarbeiter programs of the 1960s, around 80 years ago. Integration hasn't been great, with even today those of Turkish ethnic origin being 20% unemployed vs. 6% for the ethnic Germans.
Of course, there are many complex reasons for this: Germans didn't want Turks to become Germans to a degree, with those of Turkish origin not being eligible for German citizenship until 2000. Erdogan gave a speech on German soil encouraging Turks to not assimilate into German culture. And obviously someone of Turkish origin whose family immigrated 80 years ago would likely behave differently than a newcomer.
> Otherwise, what do you call someone born in Italy, to parents born in Italy, and their grandparents were born in Italy, Italy, Nigeria and Ukraine?
Half of their ancestry is Italian and that might convince most Italians to call them Italian, if they speak, behave, and mostly look like other Italians. But what if their grandparents were born in Nigeria, Ukraine, Iraq, and Pakistan? Old World countries are not the same as New World countries in that regard. The majority of Koreans, for example, would not consider someone who wasn't ethnically Korean to be Korean even if they spoke the language fluently, was in tune with the culture, and was born in Korea. Jus sanguinis applies culturally as well as legally.
I don't know anyone that wouldn't consider someone, whose family lived in country X for 100 years, to not be native to country X.
Ask them how many native Americans there are in the US, and you'll see how shallow this belief is.
Seriously? Replacement Theory?
If I made any factual errors, corrections are welcome.
[deleted]
Italy has 58 million inhabitants. At 280k/year, together with the 8% of immigrants already there, such a policy would reduce native Italians to just 62% of their own country in a mere century. However, that ignores their sub-replacement fertility, which would probably see them become a minority in this time, in what used to be their country.
Italians themselves evidently don't want their grandchildren to lose claim over the only country they can call home. But because their food doesn't pass some ridiculous purity test, the author believes their desire not to share Italy with the whole world is illegitimate?
> “Nigerians are not going to let you come and copy-and-paste. We will hold you accountable.”
I don't even know what this is supposed to mean. "let you come"? Are Italians flooding into Nigeria? And are Italians to hold Nigerians accountable for the use of their innovations, culinary and otherwise? A brief glance at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Italian_inventions_and... suggests that would be a lot of "accountability", as it includes such things as the battery, pasta industrial production, television, the typewriter, antibiotics, and germ theory. I'm truly confused what accountability should be demanded for learning from others.