Ancient Greek terms worth reviving(classicalwisdom.substack.com)
classicalwisdom.substack.com
Ancient Greek terms worth reviving
https://classicalwisdom.substack.com/p/12-ancient-greek-terms-that-should
246 comments
I fully agree with you but I do think many people are just speaking generally when they talk about wanting to live a happy life.
Obviously one should not always be happy. You shouldn't be happy at a funeral. You should also have cause to go to a funeral (having friends, family, etc.). You should also do things you might hate or cause pain because long term they are good. Studying, running, etc. Life if full of these struggles and they are good.
But there is also a common hedonistic misunderstanding where people seek pleasure, avoid pain, and think it will lead to happiness, or fulfillment, or however you want to characterize a "good" life. I see this a lot in the "self-care" advocates who justify unhealthy behavior by positioning it as championing some self-diagnosed mental health cause. It often looks like "I'm going to ignore my responsibilities because I feel bad and people shouldn't question me because I am the full authority on anything I categorize as my mental health."
Obviously one should not always be happy. You shouldn't be happy at a funeral. You should also have cause to go to a funeral (having friends, family, etc.). You should also do things you might hate or cause pain because long term they are good. Studying, running, etc. Life if full of these struggles and they are good.
But there is also a common hedonistic misunderstanding where people seek pleasure, avoid pain, and think it will lead to happiness, or fulfillment, or however you want to characterize a "good" life. I see this a lot in the "self-care" advocates who justify unhealthy behavior by positioning it as championing some self-diagnosed mental health cause. It often looks like "I'm going to ignore my responsibilities because I feel bad and people shouldn't question me because I am the full authority on anything I categorize as my mental health."
> You shouldn't be happy at a funeral
Shouldn't I? I suspect you're just unthinkingly exporting cultural expectations you've absorbed. I don't believe all cultures treat funerals as necessarily sad occasions, and I really don't like being told what I should feel by someone else (although I realise you probably didn't mean it that way).
(small edit)
Shouldn't I? I suspect you're just unthinkingly exporting cultural expectations you've absorbed. I don't believe all cultures treat funerals as necessarily sad occasions, and I really don't like being told what I should feel by someone else (although I realise you probably didn't mean it that way).
(small edit)
Good observation. As someone raised in a Catholic country, I am still weirded out by the Protestant idea to get together after a funeral to mourn, mingle and eat. (I'm not even sure what you call that)
In my mind mourning is a very private and too sad an event to have people around, and there is bound to be cultures where mourning is cause to celebrate, have fun, and enjoy life in all of its beauty.
In my mind mourning is a very private and too sad an event to have people around, and there is bound to be cultures where mourning is cause to celebrate, have fun, and enjoy life in all of its beauty.
That's interesting.
I was born and raised in Poland, a Catholic country, and we do gather after the funeral to mourn and eat together. However, apparently this custom dates back to Slavic times – this may explain the difference between our experiences.
I was born and raised in Poland, a Catholic country, and we do gather after the funeral to mourn and eat together. However, apparently this custom dates back to Slavic times – this may explain the difference between our experiences.
And I'm from Italy. Perhaps it's not a religious difference, but just cultural.
In English, the social event of mourning with others often with food, drink and sometimes even song, is often called a “wake”.
The "Irish Wake" is this... but _before_ the funeral.
And Ireland is VERY Catholic.
And Ireland is VERY Catholic.
Surely happiness is not continuous feeling of bliss and joy.
For example parenthood can be a large collection of frustration and exhaustion, and still be one of the most powerful gate to happiness.
For example parenthood can be a large collection of frustration and exhaustion, and still be one of the most powerful gate to happiness.
It's important that we cultivate a language of words with more precise meanings rather than always trying to interpolate what the writer meant using their context.
A better language and a better society has a more sophisticated set of words to communicate with.
A better language and a better society has a more sophisticated set of words to communicate with.
And a similar word:
"In Ancient Greek philosophy, ataraxia (Greek: ἀταραξία, from "a-", negation and tarachē "disturbance, trouble") is a lucid state of robust equanimity characterized by ongoing freedom from distress and worry. In non-philosophical usage, ataraxia was the ideal mental state for soldiers entering battle. Achieving ataraxia is a common goal for Pyrrhonism, Epicureanism, and Stoicism, but the role and value of ataraxia within each philosophy varies in accordance with their philosophical theories."
"In Ancient Greek philosophy, ataraxia (Greek: ἀταραξία, from "a-", negation and tarachē "disturbance, trouble") is a lucid state of robust equanimity characterized by ongoing freedom from distress and worry. In non-philosophical usage, ataraxia was the ideal mental state for soldiers entering battle. Achieving ataraxia is a common goal for Pyrrhonism, Epicureanism, and Stoicism, but the role and value of ataraxia within each philosophy varies in accordance with their philosophical theories."
> The Ancient Greeks resolutely did not believe that the purpose of life was to be happy
I bet Ancient Greeks didn't constitute a hivemind and had different opinions on the matter.
I bet Ancient Greeks didn't constitute a hivemind and had different opinions on the matter.
Yes, but it is also accurate to say "Americans believe in individualism" even though they aren't a hivemind either. It's short for "X is a cultural value of theirs".
+1 In fact there were many different schools of thought back there both within Athens and across city states. For me, learning about the vibrant debates between them was one of the most fun parts of studying Ancient Greece.
Manolis Kellis discussed similar concepts on the Lex Fridman podcast. He mentions the idea that the West is very big on resolution and 'happily ever after', whereas the Greeks have a taste for all emotions and experiences in their film, song and poetry.
It's discussed in the Life sucks sometimes and it's okay section of the podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t06rkOOUa7g#t=1h13m
It's discussed in the Life sucks sometimes and it's okay section of the podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t06rkOOUa7g#t=1h13m
> suffering physically or mentally, overburdened and in a tetchy mood. Many of life's most worthwhile projects will, at points, be quite at odds with contentment, but may be worth pursuing nevertheless. Henceforth, we shouldn't try to be happy
It's a non-sequitur if I've ever seen one. Although I agree with the idea, it's a disservice to present it with "There's a fancy word which means [...] Henceforth, you should do as I say."
It's a non-sequitur if I've ever seen one. Although I agree with the idea, it's a disservice to present it with "There's a fancy word which means [...] Henceforth, you should do as I say."
Eudaimonia means “good demons.” Plato used it to refer to the source of Socrates’ inspiration. Etymology of daimon might have it mean the apportioners, dividers or rationers.
“With artificial intelligence we are summoning the demon” — Elon Musk
Let’s hope for good demons! I’ve been thinking about it lately, and in a world that many believe is filled with intelligence and consciousness at different levels, it might make sense to dust off our Platonic and Neoplatonic philosophy. There are a lot of intriguing ideas there, like the immaterial world of forms.
I know that many people reactively disbelieve in immaterialism—but it is a quite common perspective among physicists. There, most probably agree that the basis of the world is not material stuff, but rather immaterial mathematics.
Just don’t anthropomorphize the daimonia. Human consciousness and intelligence clearly isn’t the only type of intelligence or consciousness in this world.
If you are interested in the intersection of the esoteric and AI, I’ll be giving a lecture June 1 at the Ritman Library of Hermetic Philosophy in Amsterdam. I just got tenure so I’ll be trying to push the envelope :) https://embassyofthefreemind.com/en/plan-your-visit/agenda#D...
“With artificial intelligence we are summoning the demon” — Elon Musk
Let’s hope for good demons! I’ve been thinking about it lately, and in a world that many believe is filled with intelligence and consciousness at different levels, it might make sense to dust off our Platonic and Neoplatonic philosophy. There are a lot of intriguing ideas there, like the immaterial world of forms.
I know that many people reactively disbelieve in immaterialism—but it is a quite common perspective among physicists. There, most probably agree that the basis of the world is not material stuff, but rather immaterial mathematics.
Just don’t anthropomorphize the daimonia. Human consciousness and intelligence clearly isn’t the only type of intelligence or consciousness in this world.
If you are interested in the intersection of the esoteric and AI, I’ll be giving a lecture June 1 at the Ritman Library of Hermetic Philosophy in Amsterdam. I just got tenure so I’ll be trying to push the envelope :) https://embassyofthefreemind.com/en/plan-your-visit/agenda#D...
The Ancient Greek word "daimon" doesn't mean "demon".
Daimon or Daemon (Ancient Greek: δαίμων, "god", "godlike", "power", "fate") originally referred to a lesser deity or guiding spirit such as the daimons of ancient Greek religion and mythology and of later Hellenistic religion and philosophy. The word is derived from Proto-Indo-European daimon "provider, divider (of fortunes or destinies)," from the root da- "to divide".
-- Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daimon)
The sorts of beings modern English refers to as "demons" are* daimons, but so are "guardian angels" and "saints".
Daimon or Daemon (Ancient Greek: δαίμων, "god", "godlike", "power", "fate") originally referred to a lesser deity or guiding spirit such as the daimons of ancient Greek religion and mythology and of later Hellenistic religion and philosophy. The word is derived from Proto-Indo-European daimon "provider, divider (of fortunes or destinies)," from the root da- "to divide".
-- Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daimon)
The sorts of beings modern English refers to as "demons" are* daimons, but so are "guardian angels" and "saints".
[deleted]
> During the event, we introduce a version of GPT that has been trained on the complete works of Plato and other esoteric texts, and invite attendees to ask deep questions of Plato. Our AI generates new dialogues in response, offering a unique opportunity to explore the value of dialectic between AI and esoteric philosophy.
That is brilliant. It's so refreshing to hear of Neoplatonism and Hermetic Philosophy, not just for historical study but as a living stream of thought and inspiration. People seem to forget that the roots of science is magic.
That is brilliant. It's so refreshing to hear of Neoplatonism and Hermetic Philosophy, not just for historical study but as a living stream of thought and inspiration. People seem to forget that the roots of science is magic.
Mathematics (can) model reality, not the other way around. I have immense respect for the humanities but your lecture looks like a lazy attempt to ride the AI hype.
Reality models mathematics! That’s a great way to put it. That’s why there are no perfect spheres in a material world—yet billions of material entities teleologically approximating spheres. Clearly the ideal sphere is ontologically prior to any specific material approximation.
You have immense respect for the humanities—but will casually call me a lazy hype monger? Pity.
You have immense respect for the humanities—but will casually call me a lazy hype monger? Pity.
This was also the name of the awesome downtown Berkeley gaming store that recently closed down.
RIP
RIP
No.
I think happy and fulfilled are more or less interchangeable. If you ask Google to define happy, it comes back with a definition from Oxford Languages (at least for me it does) and the definitions given are:
1. feeling or showing pleasure or contentment
2. having a sense of confidence in or satisfaction with
3. fortunate and convenient
I've always liked "akrasia"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akrasia
> Weakness of will to act against one's own better judgement.
It's everywhere in modern society, and I'd love to see it called out more.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akrasia
> Weakness of will to act against one's own better judgement.
It's everywhere in modern society, and I'd love to see it called out more.
I think you misquoted. The actual meaning is weakness of will to act according to one's better judgement.
From the wiki article ""lacking command" or "weakness", occasionally transliterated as acrasia or Anglicised as acrasy or acracy) is a lack of self-control, or acting against one's better judgment."
From the wiki article ""lacking command" or "weakness", occasionally transliterated as acrasia or Anglicised as acrasy or acracy) is a lack of self-control, or acting against one's better judgment."
It's "(weakness of will to act) against one's better judgement", or "weakness of will (to act according to one's better judgment)".
Seems similar to the experience of those with executive function disorders, where the sufferer knows that they should be doing an important task, but they prioritise some other less important but more engaging or satisfying task. (In other words: procrastination.)
Just missing punctuation I think - 'a weakness of will; to act against [...]'.
They didn't misquote, that was copy-pasted directly from Wikipedia. Maybe raise the issue with Wikipedia?
I guess it would be characterized by someone noticing water seeping into their house in the dead of night and then going back to sleep instead of trying to stem the flow.
Jon Elster’s ‘Ulysses and the Sirens’ is about akrasia, more or less; in situations where we know we are likely to act against our own best interests, how do we credibly commit ourselves to doing the right thing, like Ulysses binding himself to the mast? One of the best social science texts I ever read
Thanks for that resource. On doing a bit of digging, it seems that Elster's more recent `Ulysses Unbound` expands on the themes of `Ulysses and the Sirens` and might be a better first read. Are you familiar with it?
It's called out quite a lot, just not literally with the word akrasia. When it is called out, you're being "judgemental" or restricting someone's freedom/autonomy, which is of course sacrosanct to moderns.
Those responding in such a way are not in fact acting against their better judgement - they lack a judgment better than the one they have, therefore the criticism is moot.
Not true. Often they really do have a better judgement but choose to be offended when called out.
I don't know if we're talking about the same thing, but to me it seems like there's potentially two issues at play here: self control to act in accordance with one's supposed morals, and, the changing of the presumptive morals of a society.
For self control, I feel like it's universal human experience to always find this falling short. Throughout history we do things we know we shouldn't, as in, we agree they're bad for our health or unethical, but we're really good at doing it anyway for whatever reason. Reasons like forgetting in the heat of the moment or dreaming up some unreasonable justification. So, to say there's something new in modern society about this, I don't know if I agree. If anything I think each individual's ability to manage this is under direct attack by increasingly effective mechanisms manipulating our cognitive biases and flaws, such as notification bells and other UX dark/whatever patterns.
As for the changing of presumptive morals, this I feel is quite noticeable in modern society, and I wonder if when someone appears "offended for being called out," what's really happening is a misinterpretation of their morals. In fact they're acting out their morals just fine, and there's a disagreement.
The example of this I most often think about is laziness. I personally feel bad if I spend a day at home watching netflix or whatever. I think I should instead be reading my HUGE backlog of books I want to get through, or work on my personal projects, or go clean the local park, or do literally anything. If you catch me watching netflix, that's a failure to act out my morals.
That said, I don't have the strongest argument for my morals. After all, what's all that wrong with spending a lifetime sitting at home watching netflix? Honestly? Do we need to have massive expectations for all the billions of humans? Maybe we do, and maybe the person works really hard during the day, and that's good enough? Or maybe our technology has advanced to the point where perhaps it's just fine for us to relax and float on the river of life. In fact maybe technology has nothing to do with it, maybe it was always ok to do nothing. In Cory Doctorow's "Walkaway," there's a subset of the culture that exclusively do nothing, contribute nothing, so as to lessen the guilt of hardworkers when it's time for them to take a break: "Relax, there's no way you can be lazier than us after all!"
What examples of people being offended, for being called out for what, did you have in mind?
For self control, I feel like it's universal human experience to always find this falling short. Throughout history we do things we know we shouldn't, as in, we agree they're bad for our health or unethical, but we're really good at doing it anyway for whatever reason. Reasons like forgetting in the heat of the moment or dreaming up some unreasonable justification. So, to say there's something new in modern society about this, I don't know if I agree. If anything I think each individual's ability to manage this is under direct attack by increasingly effective mechanisms manipulating our cognitive biases and flaws, such as notification bells and other UX dark/whatever patterns.
As for the changing of presumptive morals, this I feel is quite noticeable in modern society, and I wonder if when someone appears "offended for being called out," what's really happening is a misinterpretation of their morals. In fact they're acting out their morals just fine, and there's a disagreement.
The example of this I most often think about is laziness. I personally feel bad if I spend a day at home watching netflix or whatever. I think I should instead be reading my HUGE backlog of books I want to get through, or work on my personal projects, or go clean the local park, or do literally anything. If you catch me watching netflix, that's a failure to act out my morals.
That said, I don't have the strongest argument for my morals. After all, what's all that wrong with spending a lifetime sitting at home watching netflix? Honestly? Do we need to have massive expectations for all the billions of humans? Maybe we do, and maybe the person works really hard during the day, and that's good enough? Or maybe our technology has advanced to the point where perhaps it's just fine for us to relax and float on the river of life. In fact maybe technology has nothing to do with it, maybe it was always ok to do nothing. In Cory Doctorow's "Walkaway," there's a subset of the culture that exclusively do nothing, contribute nothing, so as to lessen the guilt of hardworkers when it's time for them to take a break: "Relax, there's no way you can be lazier than us after all!"
What examples of people being offended, for being called out for what, did you have in mind?
> What examples of people being offended, for being called out for what, did you have in mind?
Just very simple things, like if you were to suggest to someone evidently overweight to perhaps move around a little more or watch their diet, they (or other people for that matter) are likely to call you judgemental and be offended.
Just very simple things, like if you were to suggest to someone evidently overweight to perhaps move around a little more or watch their diet, they (or other people for that matter) are likely to call you judgemental and be offended.
Strictly speaking you are being judgemental - assuming of course that like most people that say such things without invitation that you’re acting on a limited set of knowledge about that individual and their circumstances.
It’s one thing to state that collectively, people are more obese these days than in the past, and that certain proscriptions (food intake type and quantity, activity type and quantity) are called for. In most cases such statements would be unremarkable and get broad agreement. But you don’t know me or what I’ve been doing/trying etc, so on what basis do you think you can make a comment like that about me and expect me not to be offended? I find that expectation quite remarkable. It’s not that people are more offended these days as much as it is people find it perfectly acceptable to do and say what in the old days would be considered “rude” or “impolite”. Civility has been upended by “truth telling”. Can’t say I’m a huge fan tbh.
It’s one thing to state that collectively, people are more obese these days than in the past, and that certain proscriptions (food intake type and quantity, activity type and quantity) are called for. In most cases such statements would be unremarkable and get broad agreement. But you don’t know me or what I’ve been doing/trying etc, so on what basis do you think you can make a comment like that about me and expect me not to be offended? I find that expectation quite remarkable. It’s not that people are more offended these days as much as it is people find it perfectly acceptable to do and say what in the old days would be considered “rude” or “impolite”. Civility has been upended by “truth telling”. Can’t say I’m a huge fan tbh.
Which is a totally understandable reaction, since you overstepped a line and pretended you have the right to judge others. In my book, you only have the right to do this with your children, until they are 18 or something. After that, you are just being a dick.
Hey no offense intended, but this comment seems hypocritical and self-contradictory. Are you claiming?
1. Nobody has a right to judge others. 2. I judge everybody who disagrees with me to be dicks.
Either your own rulebook applies to everyone except you (hypocrisy) or your premise is false (selfcontradction). If you hold that people should not pretend they have the right to think at others, then you should stop doing so yourself. Or is it not the freedom of thinking but the freedom of speech you dislike? Of course because you yourself enjoy your right to judge others (and have done so here) it follows that your premise is false. Thus, everyone has a right to judge others. QED
The opposite claim is less wrong: nobody has a right to be free of judgement from others. To argue otherwise reduces to: I don't like shame, so I deny its validity by blaming others. Being shameless is some kind of behavior disorder predicate, not a virtue! For example here is some random guy in Arkansas who writes about these topics:
"when disturbed characters do perceive that someone is judging them in a negative manner, they easily think that it’s the other person who has the problem."
Source: https://www.drgeorgesimon.com/shameless-and-guiltless-thinki...
The social implications topic came up centuries ago in the Federalist v Antifederalist debate. Where IIRC there was a line of reasoning that the new USA didn't need certain organs of power (law enforcement?) because the 'coercive force of shame' within communities was sufficient to self regulate. I haven't read this stuff for decades but as I recall the counter argument went like: yeah maybe for you guys up north but that only works in your homogeneous post-puritan monoculture... down here in the south we have slave revolts to suppress, er property rights to enforce.
On a lighter note, this whole topic reminds me of:"oh you strenuously object?" from A Few Good Men:
https://youtu.be/bOnRHAyXqYY
1. Nobody has a right to judge others. 2. I judge everybody who disagrees with me to be dicks.
Either your own rulebook applies to everyone except you (hypocrisy) or your premise is false (selfcontradction). If you hold that people should not pretend they have the right to think at others, then you should stop doing so yourself. Or is it not the freedom of thinking but the freedom of speech you dislike? Of course because you yourself enjoy your right to judge others (and have done so here) it follows that your premise is false. Thus, everyone has a right to judge others. QED
The opposite claim is less wrong: nobody has a right to be free of judgement from others. To argue otherwise reduces to: I don't like shame, so I deny its validity by blaming others. Being shameless is some kind of behavior disorder predicate, not a virtue! For example here is some random guy in Arkansas who writes about these topics:
"when disturbed characters do perceive that someone is judging them in a negative manner, they easily think that it’s the other person who has the problem."
Source: https://www.drgeorgesimon.com/shameless-and-guiltless-thinki...
The social implications topic came up centuries ago in the Federalist v Antifederalist debate. Where IIRC there was a line of reasoning that the new USA didn't need certain organs of power (law enforcement?) because the 'coercive force of shame' within communities was sufficient to self regulate. I haven't read this stuff for decades but as I recall the counter argument went like: yeah maybe for you guys up north but that only works in your homogeneous post-puritan monoculture... down here in the south we have slave revolts to suppress, er property rights to enforce.
On a lighter note, this whole topic reminds me of:"oh you strenuously object?" from A Few Good Men:
https://youtu.be/bOnRHAyXqYY
or you’re a doctor.
Ah, then, this sounds to me of an example of misaligned ethics (you and example overweight person).
I suppose you could argue about the health and longevity benefits of being low bodyfat, restricting calories, regular cardiovascular activities, these are scientifically documented... however, allow me to assume for a second that you haven't maximized these to their utmost. Do you, personally, fast to the maximum recommended amount, do cardiovascular to the maximum recommended amount, maintain a super cut bodyfat %, etc? Maybe you do quite well, but do you do it perfectly? Never drink alcohol (increased risk of cancer for even 1 drink a week)? Apply sunscreen in all cases you're in the sun (melanoma)? Avoid eating meats (cancer, cardiovascular disease)?
I'm going to assume no, because, what a life, right? You probably make some sacrifices to your longevity, for a life that's a little more chaotic and fun. So now the question is just, to what degree? I think that degree of variability is high, and I think it's perfectly normal to be fat and rational. I'm an example, lol, because I was once 15% bodyfat, 2pl8 lifter, 5k every other day kind of guy, and now I'm 10kg overweight. The upside is I get to eat cake, which I am obsessed with, and sleep in. I found a balance I'm happy with. I fluctuate towards and away 10kg overweight, never over, and have a life I like.
So when you see me fat, are you going to say I've lost control of my life? I think I have things under control. I think my ethics are in line with my actions.
That's part 1 of my thoughts, part 2 is a challenge to you to take some of my values that I'm more than happy to defend vigorously as ethical, and ask yourself (and tell us if you're open to it, I'm curious) what you'd feel if I asked you these questions:
1. If you live in a place that has elections, have you voted in every single election for which you've been capable, after spending a decent amount of time researching candidates first?
2. Do you prioritize taking public transit? Or, bicycling and walking, or similar?
3. The times you drive a private vehicle, do you rigorously give right of way to pedestrians and bicycles, even if it's not strictly legally required to do so?
4. You don't ever litter, right?
5. You regularly attend civil rights protests, right?
6. You write your representative about civil rights and other issues frequently, don't you?
7. You push for open-sourcing any code you write with stakeholders, yeah? And you open source all your personal project code?
8. You support strikers by not buying goods from companies undergoing a strike, and not crossing a picket line, right?
9. You are a vocal LGBT ally, right? And you challenge family and friends when they voice bigoted ideas?
10. If you are a founder or similar, do you follow the principles of fairness in labor by either profit sharing, or incorporating as a co-op?
11. You don't buy from companies that engage in slavery, wage theft, exploitative labor practices, or extreme environmental harm, right? Generally speaking, you check into this before buying from these companies? And you only shop local businesses, rather than monopolizing companies like Walmart?
If you find these questions surprising, tiresome, offensive, annoying, stupid, or ridiculous, can you see how someone might feel the same if you suggested they reprioritize their life around weight loss? Because it's not just a question of ethics and capability of self control for implementing ethics, it's also a question of prioritizing certain ethics.
I suppose you could argue about the health and longevity benefits of being low bodyfat, restricting calories, regular cardiovascular activities, these are scientifically documented... however, allow me to assume for a second that you haven't maximized these to their utmost. Do you, personally, fast to the maximum recommended amount, do cardiovascular to the maximum recommended amount, maintain a super cut bodyfat %, etc? Maybe you do quite well, but do you do it perfectly? Never drink alcohol (increased risk of cancer for even 1 drink a week)? Apply sunscreen in all cases you're in the sun (melanoma)? Avoid eating meats (cancer, cardiovascular disease)?
I'm going to assume no, because, what a life, right? You probably make some sacrifices to your longevity, for a life that's a little more chaotic and fun. So now the question is just, to what degree? I think that degree of variability is high, and I think it's perfectly normal to be fat and rational. I'm an example, lol, because I was once 15% bodyfat, 2pl8 lifter, 5k every other day kind of guy, and now I'm 10kg overweight. The upside is I get to eat cake, which I am obsessed with, and sleep in. I found a balance I'm happy with. I fluctuate towards and away 10kg overweight, never over, and have a life I like.
So when you see me fat, are you going to say I've lost control of my life? I think I have things under control. I think my ethics are in line with my actions.
That's part 1 of my thoughts, part 2 is a challenge to you to take some of my values that I'm more than happy to defend vigorously as ethical, and ask yourself (and tell us if you're open to it, I'm curious) what you'd feel if I asked you these questions:
1. If you live in a place that has elections, have you voted in every single election for which you've been capable, after spending a decent amount of time researching candidates first?
2. Do you prioritize taking public transit? Or, bicycling and walking, or similar?
3. The times you drive a private vehicle, do you rigorously give right of way to pedestrians and bicycles, even if it's not strictly legally required to do so?
4. You don't ever litter, right?
5. You regularly attend civil rights protests, right?
6. You write your representative about civil rights and other issues frequently, don't you?
7. You push for open-sourcing any code you write with stakeholders, yeah? And you open source all your personal project code?
8. You support strikers by not buying goods from companies undergoing a strike, and not crossing a picket line, right?
9. You are a vocal LGBT ally, right? And you challenge family and friends when they voice bigoted ideas?
10. If you are a founder or similar, do you follow the principles of fairness in labor by either profit sharing, or incorporating as a co-op?
11. You don't buy from companies that engage in slavery, wage theft, exploitative labor practices, or extreme environmental harm, right? Generally speaking, you check into this before buying from these companies? And you only shop local businesses, rather than monopolizing companies like Walmart?
If you find these questions surprising, tiresome, offensive, annoying, stupid, or ridiculous, can you see how someone might feel the same if you suggested they reprioritize their life around weight loss? Because it's not just a question of ethics and capability of self control for implementing ethics, it's also a question of prioritizing certain ethics.
Obv I wasn't talking about going up to strangers and telling them to put the fork down.
Furthermore: your questions are about ethics, which mine may differ from yours. I wouldn't be offended by such questions and in fact I could quite vividly debate all of them.
However I may be concerned over someone's weight especially if they are close to me, for the objectively indisputable reason of health.
Furthermore: your questions are about ethics, which mine may differ from yours. I wouldn't be offended by such questions and in fact I could quite vividly debate all of them.
However I may be concerned over someone's weight especially if they are close to me, for the objectively indisputable reason of health.
> objectively indisputable reason of health
Sure, but will you engage the first part of my comment then, regarding degrees of healthiness, and the health choices you may not be making?
I'm basically arguing both that it's not as indisputable as you seem to say, and, that you may be missing the full picture here.
Sure, but will you engage the first part of my comment then, regarding degrees of healthiness, and the health choices you may not be making?
I'm basically arguing both that it's not as indisputable as you seem to say, and, that you may be missing the full picture here.
Of course, regarding degrees of healthiness: If they also let me know how they think I can do better in some regard why would I be offended?
That would be normal mutual care.
That would be normal mutual care.
In my opinion, there is no inherent good or bad when it comes to working or not working. Both are ways to lead a life. If that life is good depends on what you expect from it. You can work and work until you drop and be deeply dissatisfied. And you can just chill, regularly almost starve. But be happy. But most people feel they have the biggest chance for happiness by trying to balance these extremes. Most people tend to lean towards the "work too much" side of things until they drop.
We hate people who game the system by not working unless they gamed it in the right way (depends on who you ask).
I mean they have to live with the dissonance within their soul at the end of the day. Which I think Socrates was getting at with regards to how it can end up teaching what is actually in their best interests.
And there you go 12 ways to name your new software :D. My favorite (not in there) is ‘metanoia’ and it explains a bit the humanity current status
So, to sum up two comments on this page, as well as the last 2 years: Excessive eudaimonia demands led people to metanoia.
I'm always amused by the fact that I feel like every few generations invents a new term for akrasia, including but not limited to 'moral incontinence' and more recently 'the value-action gap'.
Ah, brilliant! I asked on a subreddit (I believe 'Tip of My Tongue'?) because I was trying to find a word that describes this.
It's not just everywhere, it's said to be a dominant form of government, acracy (as opposed to mere anarchy)
yes when I put this one they seemed to like it here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35562728
These are great suggestions. Adding these words to your own internal vocabulary is totally worth it for self-reflection.
Less seriously, a grammatical construction I wish we had in English is the Latin future passive participle, typically ending in -ndus, -nda, -ndum. It means that something needs/ought to be done.
For instance "Amanda" is "she who must be loved."
So if someone asks you why your feature isn't in production yet, you can say the pull request is reviewandum.
Or you can tell the kids that the trash is emptianda, or the dog is walkandus.
These are kind of lame examples, but once you get the idea you can find places where it'd be convenient several times a day.
Less seriously, a grammatical construction I wish we had in English is the Latin future passive participle, typically ending in -ndus, -nda, -ndum. It means that something needs/ought to be done.
For instance "Amanda" is "she who must be loved."
So if someone asks you why your feature isn't in production yet, you can say the pull request is reviewandum.
Or you can tell the kids that the trash is emptianda, or the dog is walkandus.
These are kind of lame examples, but once you get the idea you can find places where it'd be convenient several times a day.
Reminds me of one thing I loved about Esperanto. It has (almost) all the participles you could ever need: past, present, and future, in both passive and active voices. So "to love"/"ami" would have
You can create 9 combinations from these simple shapes (or 18 of you count passives), and if you draw them on a time-line they will correspond to distinct sub-sets.
There also some participles like "amanda/amindo/amenda" but I have simply forgotten what they each mean. I think one of them mean "worthy of being loved", another meaning "should be loved".
# Passive
amita - to have been loved
amata - to be loved
amota - to be going to be loved
# Active
aminta - to have been loving
amanta - loving
amonta - to be going to be loving
Li estis amita - He had been loved
Ŝi estas amanta - She is loving
Mi estos amota - I will be going to be loved
You can create 9 combinations from these simple shapes (or 18 of you count passives), and if you draw them on a time-line they will correspond to distinct sub-sets.
There also some participles like "amanda/amindo/amenda" but I have simply forgotten what they each mean. I think one of them mean "worthy of being loved", another meaning "should be loved".
> These are kind of lame examples, but once you get the idea you can find places where it'd be convenient several times a day.
I, for one, find myself wishing for the destruction of Phoenician cities multiple times a day[1].
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthago_delenda_est
I, for one, find myself wishing for the destruction of Phoenician cities multiple times a day[1].
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthago_delenda_est
To bring it full-circle, you just reminded me of one of my favorite HN comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11447851
"Ceterum censeo Charthaginem esse delendam."
The construction works best with words of actual classical origin. When dealing with a supermarket delivery I do sometimes refer to the things that need to go into the fridge as the "refrigeranda".
(There are some fairly ordinary English words derived from this construction. The agenda is those things that need to be done. The legend (of a map, graph, etc.) is the stuff you need to read.)
(There are some fairly ordinary English words derived from this construction. The agenda is those things that need to be done. The legend (of a map, graph, etc.) is the stuff you need to read.)
Oh, propaganda from the latin-lobby!
Or maybe that wasn't your agenda?
> propaganda
> agenda
I see what you did there.
> agenda
I see what you did there.
On the subject of grammar, Greek grammar (ancient? I assume this one has carried into modernity) has a handy construction I like in the form of the particles μέν and δέ, used to highlight counterpoint/point through something closer to grammar than word semantics. You might see it translated as "on the one hand x, on the other hand y" or "while x, y" or "x, but y", in English, it loses a lot of its punch. Like the verbal act of holding your hands up to demonstrate in a gesture the balance of the ideas.
Yep, Ancient Greek has great particle game that English just can’t translate at all.
And as you say, they’re really like gesture words, which make so much sense, especially as text is now read/written without any human speaking behaviour at all.
Arguably emojis fill this need, but I’m unconvinced.
And as you say, they’re really like gesture words, which make so much sense, especially as text is now read/written without any human speaking behaviour at all.
Arguably emojis fill this need, but I’m unconvinced.
Coptic had these as loan words, although whether they were literary or used in daily discourse I don't know. Afaik modern Greek does not have these very handy little words sadly.
It's more "but then", no? As in, "πάταξον μεν, άκουσον δε" ("hit me, but then listen to me")?
I never got too too far into the language, so I absolutely believe there are more layers and variances to the meaning than the basic glosses I learned! But that feels like it fits in the counterpoint/point kind of framework, I think? Just with an additional kind of "temporal" or "ordering" connotation.
It's not so much "on one hand yes, on the other hand no". It's more like "do the thing I want, but also at least do the thing I want too".
But there's also the meaning of "this and that", so you might be right.
But there's also the meaning of "this and that", so you might be right.
Yeah, that sounds right to me; like, "Sure that, but more importantly, this"?
I've heard a regional English construction for this: "needs X'd". For your examples:
- The pull request needs reviewed
- The trash needs emptied
- The dog needs walked
Just one(ish) extra syllable!
- The pull request needs reviewed
- The trash needs emptied
- The dog needs walked
Just one(ish) extra syllable!
They might be just removing "to be", that's what I love about English you can break and abuse it and it still mostly makes sense. You could even drop the
"the" and "-ed" from those phrases and most people would still understand what you mean by "dog needs walk".
yeah, they are just dropping "to be". But "dog needs walk" sounds wrong, whereas "the dog needs walked" sounds normal to the people who use it. I don't know whether there is a reason almost nobody says "dog needs walk", but I don't know much about linguistics :)
[deleted]
Northeast Ohio uses this construction rather than the “-ing” gerund. It took me awhile to change that when I moved to the East Coast.
Southern Hillbilly uses the same construction with a prefixed a: "This here dog needs awalkin'"
I've mentioned this before on HN, but one example of this I saw in the field was "abc_delenda" tables, which contain ids or records to be deleted. The naming appeared unnecessarily obscure to me at the time, but I find myself going back to it in subsequent jobs because it is a nice and concise way to express the intent.
What about `abc_trash(can)`? Although I like delenda better.
> For instance "Amanda" is "she who must be loved."
This is probably a joke but it still is an absurd category to think about.
How can anyone be compelled (by what force?) to love someone else?
This is probably a joke but it still is an absurd category to think about.
How can anyone be compelled (by what force?) to love someone else?
"Must" can mean "required" or "to have an obligation to". Thus, for example, we are morally obligated to love our children. But "love" here is not meant in the desiring sense of love (eros, another Greek word) in which one desires something for one's own objective good, or even in the modern squishy sense of having fleeting pleasant or affectionate feelings for. Rather, something like agape (still another Greek word) is meant as parents raise their children primarily for the good and benefit of the children and the common good, not their own self-interest or their own pleasure, even if those elements are present or result secondarily (i.e., the pleasure of selfless acts is not the motive behind selfless acts for that would render them no longer selfless and the pleasure or liberty from self that could follow would not obtain).
Morally obligated by whom? There still has to be some external force.
Must can mean "inevitable" as well as "required."
Indeed. For a different angle on the nuance, you will often see the gerundive translated as "worthy of". Miranda, worthy of beholding. Amanda, worthy of love.
I think "must" is too strong. It's better as "she who is to be loved".
You can interpret it as implying an obligation or compulsion; but I don't think obligation or compulsion are direct meanings of this verb-form.
You can interpret it as implying an obligation or compulsion; but I don't think obligation or compulsion are direct meanings of this verb-form.
> future passive participle, typically ending in -ndus, -nda, -ndum.
...
> It means that something needs/ought to be done.
> something needs/ought to be done.
> "she who must be loved."
All of your examples are in the present tense.
...
> It means that something needs/ought to be done.
> something needs/ought to be done.
> "she who must be loved."
All of your examples are in the present tense.
Some of those are contextual, but "ought to be done" is certainly future tense, it's referring to a future activity. It's a pretty apt example for future passive, juxtaposing the future active "will be done."
Or at least that's how I reason it. English is rather hard to analyze sometimes.
Or at least that's how I reason it. English is rather hard to analyze sometimes.
'something ought to be done' is also contrasted with 'something is done'. It's no different to 'should' in that regard.
"I am having a party next week." That's a present continuous sentence referring to a future activity.
Some argue that English doesn't even have a future tense. For these things it certainly is lacking, along with German it seems.
"I am having a party next week." That's a present continuous sentence referring to a future activity.
Some argue that English doesn't even have a future tense. For these things it certainly is lacking, along with German it seems.
> "I am having a party next week." That's a present continuous sentence referring to a future activity.
What about "I will have a party next week" or "there will be a party next week"?
> Some argue that English doesn't even have a future tense.
I learned this as: There's no language feature that denotes future tense (like a suffix), but it's done via grammar (and context).
I have to acknowledge that I'm not the right person to be debating this. Like most native speakers, my grasp of the rules often boils down to whether something "sounds" right.
What about "I will have a party next week" or "there will be a party next week"?
> Some argue that English doesn't even have a future tense.
I learned this as: There's no language feature that denotes future tense (like a suffix), but it's done via grammar (and context).
I have to acknowledge that I'm not the right person to be debating this. Like most native speakers, my grasp of the rules often boils down to whether something "sounds" right.
> 'something ought to be done' is also contrasted with 'something is done'. It's no different to 'should' in that regard.
Ought and should express objective and subjective opinion respectively.
Ought and should express objective and subjective opinion respectively.
Grammatically, it is present tense. Semantically, it is future time. And, for kicks, etymologically, it is past tense (owe - ought).
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse Amanda.
These are gerundives. I've never heard it reffered to as a future passive participle.
Addendum?
Yep! Quite a few other common examples, including agenda, propaganda, referendum, corrigenda.
Memorandum came to mind as well — something that must be remembered, I guess.
I've always seen the appeal of ancient Greek culture in the West as a cultural bedrock on which Christianity and Enlightenment built upon. The very fact that we consider democracy as the best political system shows that clearly the ideas resonated with us from a historical and cultural point of view.
However, in the modern age it seems like metamodernism has become king, and that is something that does not play well with ancient greek culture and its derivatives. I am a firm believer that the crisis of the West is a cultural crisis where the departure from the ideas that shaped us, lead us into this kind of metamodern nihilism that everyone sees around them.
Ancient greek ideas and philosophy are still relatively unspoiled from modern institutions (except Democracy of course, but thats another point), which means that reviving some of the ethos found there could actually help us find some purpose again.
However, in the modern age it seems like metamodernism has become king, and that is something that does not play well with ancient greek culture and its derivatives. I am a firm believer that the crisis of the West is a cultural crisis where the departure from the ideas that shaped us, lead us into this kind of metamodern nihilism that everyone sees around them.
Ancient greek ideas and philosophy are still relatively unspoiled from modern institutions (except Democracy of course, but thats another point), which means that reviving some of the ethos found there could actually help us find some purpose again.
I also see deconstruction, nihilism and post-modernism as an abused tool. It was understandable after the non-sensical WWII. Many people do not know, but pre-WW2 people believed heavily in the perfection of mankind through technology and other means (such as architecture and so on)
This was not only a thing in Nazism where this is very apparent, but it was a kind of embedded in that time.
Ofcourse after the wars, people kind of embraced this post modernist, brutalistic and nihilistic, or non sense attitude. Take the Cobra and Dada movements in art, the book the Lord of the Flies, Brutalism of Corbusier.
This was not only a thing in Nazism where this is very apparent, but it was a kind of embedded in that time.
Ofcourse after the wars, people kind of embraced this post modernist, brutalistic and nihilistic, or non sense attitude. Take the Cobra and Dada movements in art, the book the Lord of the Flies, Brutalism of Corbusier.
Πάν μέτρον άριστον. As they used to say. Everything in moderation. All of those things you mention arise on a societal level when the values that were once the guiding principle disappear. My thesis is that capitalism is eating itself by neglecting to appropriately allocate resources in cultural progression, instead it focuses solely on efficiency, and technological advancement.
Wouldn't be far fetched for the humans of our age to be seen as the generation of hubris by a less technologically advanced but ultimately surviving culture in the future.
We need to get our shit together and offer the people in the west a vision worth living for, or we will all happily turn into AI-made paperclips
Wouldn't be far fetched for the humans of our age to be seen as the generation of hubris by a less technologically advanced but ultimately surviving culture in the future.
We need to get our shit together and offer the people in the west a vision worth living for, or we will all happily turn into AI-made paperclips
Great comment. I am big fan of warm capitalism. It means you don’t choose for the cheapest, but the most sustainable.
It is always funny to me, seeing someone speaking about the Greek Language as a dead one.
Most of these terms are spoken in everyday life in Greece with the same meaning.
Old English are way harder to understand for an neo-English speaker than Homer writings, going back 3000 years, are for a neo-Greek speaker. Does this make English a dead language?
Also these terms exist in English in one way or the other, taking time to study a word gives it a lot more deeper meaning that it needs, especially when the word uses changes by time and place. Many of these Classics worshipers can be paralleled with the weird Japanese culture worshipers Weeabos.
Old English are way harder to understand for an neo-English speaker than Homer writings, going back 3000 years, are for a neo-Greek speaker. Does this make English a dead language?
Also these terms exist in English in one way or the other, taking time to study a word gives it a lot more deeper meaning that it needs, especially when the word uses changes by time and place. Many of these Classics worshipers can be paralleled with the weird Japanese culture worshipers Weeabos.
Old English (or Anglo Saxon) is really a different language from modern English, which was hugely changed by the Norman Conquest. Nobody speaks in Anglo Saxon/Old English, so yes: arguably it's a dead language.
Old English is somewhat mutually intelligible with Frisian, so may not be totally dead.
one of my pet peeves is to pronounce ancient greek just like modern greek, because that just makes sense. the ancient greek reconstructed pronunciation is just so wrong to do. we have a cultural tradition, continuing with the Roman empire until modernity.
Totally, it's actually harder for Greeks that already speak modern Greek to pronounce Ancient Greek using Erasmian pronounciation :).
While you are at it, consider reviving the term democracy as well.
Ancient Greeks didnt just invent it, they thought deeply about all systems of power and their failure modes. Techniques they used feel still a thing from the future for us modern "democrats".
For example, take the term ostracism/ostracize. Today the term has degenerated to mean a certain negative cultural phenomenon.
For them it was a democratic process, a sort of negative voting, to pre-emptively remove from power somebody becoming too entrenched.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostracism
Ancient Greeks didnt just invent it, they thought deeply about all systems of power and their failure modes. Techniques they used feel still a thing from the future for us modern "democrats".
For example, take the term ostracism/ostracize. Today the term has degenerated to mean a certain negative cultural phenomenon.
For them it was a democratic process, a sort of negative voting, to pre-emptively remove from power somebody becoming too entrenched.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostracism
Greek democracy was very different, as you suggest. It was not a system of universal suffrage. Only free male citizens with military training (roughly 30% of the population) were permitted to vote.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athenian_democracy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athenian_democracy
In this respect it was a slave-labor based economy like most of the civilizations of that time. It took millenia to deligitimize the notion of different classes of humans and that process is still mostly incomplete.
"Reviving" means obviously the good bits, unless you claim that the only possibility is an all-or-nothing replica.
"Reviving" means obviously the good bits, unless you claim that the only possibility is an all-or-nothing replica.
It probably made sense to have only the educated people vote, and not all the elotes as well. The uneducated and stupid are always easily manipulated. See trump being a president of the united states for example. Or bolsonaro. Or erdogan.
That's why developed countries tend to educate their citizen for free.
It's a blessing, but it takes generations. The quality of the educational system reflects the quality of society, so it is not an easy task to undertake.
30% seems a lot! I suppose that doesn't include the slaves.
Also, "Greek democracy" was diverse. Athenian democracy isn't at all the same as Spartan democracy.
Also, "Greek democracy" was diverse. Athenian democracy isn't at all the same as Spartan democracy.
Ancient greek (and etymology) are very interesting. I'd say ancient languages study is worth reviving, not just specific terms.
Why this matters? In Italy, my country, there is much talking of eliminating a type of high school where ancient greek and latin study is central and carried out through all five years of its duration. People that haven't attended such a school fail to grasp why it may be useful to some (and also some who did, but they're a minority).
For the programmers or aspiring programmers out there: what most shaped my problem solving and bug finding abilities is translating ancient greek and latin in high school. The skill of "reverse engineering" an ancient language is very similar to reverse engineering a (short but difficult) program, for instance.
Why this matters? In Italy, my country, there is much talking of eliminating a type of high school where ancient greek and latin study is central and carried out through all five years of its duration. People that haven't attended such a school fail to grasp why it may be useful to some (and also some who did, but they're a minority).
For the programmers or aspiring programmers out there: what most shaped my problem solving and bug finding abilities is translating ancient greek and latin in high school. The skill of "reverse engineering" an ancient language is very similar to reverse engineering a (short but difficult) program, for instance.
> For the programmers or aspiring programmers out there: what most shaped my problem solving and bug finding abilities is translating ancient greek and latin in high school. The skill of "reverse engineering" an ancient language is very similar to reverse engineering a (short but difficult) program, for instance.
Or, you know, we could teach that directly instead of using dead language as a proxy for it
Or, you know, we could teach that directly instead of using dead language as a proxy for it
By learning how to translate an ancient language you gain a skill that can translate (with more effort) to programming, and I'd argue, but this is of course an untested hypothesis as any opinion on this matter, that this translation is better than learning directly. But let's assume you get even a sub par skill: I'm not saying it's a proxy, even simply beacuse you also learn something else that can be useful for something else.
It's perfectly fine that schools teaching programming directly without ancient languages exist. But why eliminate the possibility for a student to learn those languages when almost all people who did are happy with it? Anyway, I won't debate the matter further: my example is merely set to say that learning doesn't always have barriers as we like to think. Learning some greek and less math doesn't mean you won't ever be a mathematician.
It's perfectly fine that schools teaching programming directly without ancient languages exist. But why eliminate the possibility for a student to learn those languages when almost all people who did are happy with it? Anyway, I won't debate the matter further: my example is merely set to say that learning doesn't always have barriers as we like to think. Learning some greek and less math doesn't mean you won't ever be a mathematician.
Xenia plays a very important role in both the Iliad and the Odyssey. The idea of obligations running in both directions makes it a much richer concept than simple “hospitality.”
Such a beautiful word, too. It's great to see it in a context outside of a tornado that destroyed a city in Ohio.
…but a great name for a city nevertheless.
That sounds very interesting. What were these obligations?
Xenia is all about the relationship between the host and guest. Both parties are expected to be well-behaved and generous in their interaction. There was also an expectation that such kindeness should be returned if the opposite situation were ever to arrive. The concept was also inter-generational, with family lines maintaining a mutual bond created through reciprocal hospitality of each other. In book 6 of the Iliad we see Diomedes and Glacaus have an interaction which makes them realise their family has a history of xenia going back multiple generations which instantly prompts a bond and an exhange of armour in a symbloic gesture of mutual trust and comradery.
These obligations seemed to be very important to the culture at the time. So much so that it was considered the domain of Zeus (Zeus Xenios) to protect strangers seeking shelter. There are plenty of examples in myth of people breaking the sanctity of xenia and receiving divine punishment for it.
These obligations seemed to be very important to the culture at the time. So much so that it was considered the domain of Zeus (Zeus Xenios) to protect strangers seeking shelter. There are plenty of examples in myth of people breaking the sanctity of xenia and receiving divine punishment for it.
Another interesting fact is the difference in quality of the armours exchanged. One was incredibly valuable (gold or bronze if I’m not mistaken) and the other one was relatively poor.
Xenia was such a powerful social norm that for a warrior, in the heat of battle, is perfectly fine to temporarily be nude, exchange your finest armour for a lower grade one, and still be happy about it.
Xenia was such a powerful social norm that for a warrior, in the heat of battle, is perfectly fine to temporarily be nude, exchange your finest armour for a lower grade one, and still be happy about it.
In addition to sibling comments, an author of a very recent translation has also written an article on xenia in the odyssey https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/12/the-ody...
See also their translator's note to their translation
See also their translator's note to their translation
Oops I was mistaken; The article I linked is just a review of the book (and another book). It was Emily Watson's Introduction to her transation of The Odyssey that I was thinking about that touched heavily on xenia. You will be able to read it in the kindle sample https://www.amazon.com/Odyssey-Homer-ebook/dp/B06XKNHGN1/ .
Well worth the read -- I saw both the Odyssey and the Trojan war in a different light after reading this essay.
Great article, thanks for sharing.
Pretty good summary here: https://ancient-literature.com/xenia-in-the-odyssey/
I have been several times confused by the word "arete" - because in French (arête) it's a kind of rock formation and has been taken up by the rock climbing community, and in Greek (ἀρετή) it's "excellence."
There's a coffee shop near me, attached to and co-operated by a climbing gear store, called arête. The proximity to the climbing store suggests one interpretation, but it is an excellent coffee shop.
There's a coffee shop near me, attached to and co-operated by a climbing gear store, called arête. The proximity to the climbing store suggests one interpretation, but it is an excellent coffee shop.
I was named after the rock formation, but sometimes I am excellent too :)
Interestingly, thesaurus.com lists arete as an English word that is a synonym for excellence. But when you look up that word, it gives crag and crest as synonyms.
This is because it's stripping the circumflex accent somewhere. English dictionaries list arête.
According to good old etymonline.com (thank you, Douglas!) the unaccented form exists in English, as well as the separate word of Greek origin:
https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=arete
A similar situation exists with the word parity which has two entirely different meanings: "number of pregnancies" (where the word shares etymology with parent and parentage) or equal status, from Latin paritas.
This ultimately traces back to a homonym in Proto Indo-European:
https://www.etymonline.com/word/*pere-
The number-of-pregancies parity traces back to (1) and "even parity; reaching parity" to (2).
One parity traces back
This is because it's stripping the circumflex accent somewhere. English dictionaries list arête.
According to good old etymonline.com (thank you, Douglas!) the unaccented form exists in English, as well as the separate word of Greek origin:
https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=arete
A similar situation exists with the word parity which has two entirely different meanings: "number of pregnancies" (where the word shares etymology with parent and parentage) or equal status, from Latin paritas.
This ultimately traces back to a homonym in Proto Indo-European:
https://www.etymonline.com/word/*pere-
The number-of-pregancies parity traces back to (1) and "even parity; reaching parity" to (2).
One parity traces back
Αρετή is more than excellence. Philosophers of the time go quite in length about its meaning, its a mix of excellence, honour, good, nobiety(?). I admittedly have hard time finding exact synonyms in english, but the point is that αρετή according to I think Aristoteles (need fact checking) is the ultimate virtue to strive for.
In Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance, Pirsig (or perhaps one should say Phaedrus, his former self from before he got electroshock therapy) stumbles upon arete while trying to define quality.
I found his two books very interesting and I had not heard of arete until reading him, even though I had read Homer (in Spanish).
I found his two books very interesting and I had not heard of arete until reading him, even though I had read Homer (in Spanish).
Excellent is a perfectly usable translation, if you extend it to the Bill&Ted interpretation: "be excellent to each other". It's just that excellent tends to be used in a much narrower way in present-day English.
arêter is a common verb in French that means to stop. It is a cognate of to arrest.
The ê before the t is evidence betraying the disappearance of a historic s, which is still present in English cognates:
hôpital -> hospital
forêt -> forest
The word arête means edge, similar to bord.
Not every bord is an arête; only some protruding ridge or sharp edge. It seems to be used for geological ridges, like mountain crests and such, but evidently it can also refer to the blade of a knife or sharp too or such.
The ê before the t is evidence betraying the disappearance of a historic s, which is still present in English cognates:
hôpital -> hospital
forêt -> forest
The word arête means edge, similar to bord.
Not every bord is an arête; only some protruding ridge or sharp edge. It seems to be used for geological ridges, like mountain crests and such, but evidently it can also refer to the blade of a knife or sharp too or such.
arrêter*
Thanks! Does that negate any link between the words?
French arête in the sense of "ridge" comes from Old French areste and Latin arista "bristle, fishbone", whose etymology is unclear [1] (Etruscan has been sometimes proposed, among other hypotheses), but which is certainly not related to Greek arete.
[1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/arista#Latin
[1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/arista#Latin
This is an artifact of transliteration. The French word is pronounced "a'ret", whereas the Greek is pronounced "are'ti".
Parrhesia
Parrhesia means literally "to speak everything" and by extension "to speak freely", "to speak boldly". It implies not only freedom of speech, but the obligation to speak the truth for the common good, even at personal risk.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parrhesia
Parrhesia means literally "to speak everything" and by extension "to speak freely", "to speak boldly". It implies not only freedom of speech, but the obligation to speak the truth for the common good, even at personal risk.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parrhesia
Foucault lectured on perrhesia as he was dying.
https://www.amazon.com/Courage-Truth-Government-Lectures-198...
https://www.amazon.com/Courage-Truth-Government-Lectures-198...
this word (as several others) made its way into Hebrew.
I'm fond of polis, which we do use as part of words like metropolis but not on its own. It's the word for the Greek city-state but also means the citizens or social fabric.
It's why we have the two sayings "Man is a political animal" and "Man is a social creature." They are different translations of the idea that "Man is a creature of the polis."
It's why we have the two sayings "Man is a political animal" and "Man is a social creature." They are different translations of the idea that "Man is a creature of the polis."
> citizens or social fabric
Consider "polity".
https://ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=polity
Consider "polity".
https://ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=polity
You do also use it on its own, "police".
The word police certainly has its origins or roots in the word polis but it doesn't remotely mean the same thing.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police
I also would think they are pronounced differently, but a quick Google isn't clarifying how polis is pronounced and my two classes of classical Greek taken eons ago aren't sufficient background for me to be confident about my pronunciation of the word.
If anyone could cast light on the pronunciation of polis, that would be cool.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police
I also would think they are pronounced differently, but a quick Google isn't clarifying how polis is pronounced and my two classes of classical Greek taken eons ago aren't sufficient background for me to be confident about my pronunciation of the word.
If anyone could cast light on the pronunciation of polis, that would be cool.
Polis is pronounced mostly the same as police, except the stress is on the first syllable.
I thought the stress would be on the first syllable.
I also thought this means the second syllable should be a short i, consistent with how we pronounce metropolis.
Because police stresses the second syllable, it sounds like ee not a short i. So I didn't readily make the connection between the two words in part because they are spelled different and in part because I don't think they sound alike.
I also thought this means the second syllable should be a short i, consistent with how we pronounce metropolis.
Because police stresses the second syllable, it sounds like ee not a short i. So I didn't readily make the connection between the two words in part because they are spelled different and in part because I don't think they sound alike.
Interesting but most of them seem to have English words or phrases that are equivalent. So I don't see this as really substantive. Unless your goal is pretension.
It would be different if it went into a bit of depth on a few of them. But this looks like a list of words to memorize for throwing out at dinner parties or something.
I guess practically speaking that's what most people really want.
It would be different if it went into a bit of depth on a few of them. But this looks like a list of words to memorize for throwing out at dinner parties or something.
I guess practically speaking that's what most people really want.
In this age of social media, the word sophrosyne should be revived.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophrosyne?wprov=sfti1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophrosyne?wprov=sfti1
I think this is close to the real meaning of "meek" as used in "the meek shall inherit the earth". It's not meekness as we know it but being gentle(manly|womanly).
From your link - "such as temperance, moderation, prudence, purity, decorum, and self-control."
From your link - "such as temperance, moderation, prudence, purity, decorum, and self-control."
I've been listening to Dr. Michael Sugrue's lectures on Plato, Socrates, and the Dialogues, and many of these words tend to come up often. I like his descriptions best. His one on arete would challenge this definition of "excellence of any kind" to be one of a specific kind. He uses an example of a horse trainer striving towards arete to become the best moral "techne"(technician) based on the knowledge they continuously seek.
Specifically:
To make a distinction between technē and arete, the value of technē is the end product while arete values choosing the action that promotes the best moral good.
Specifically:
To make a distinction between technē and arete, the value of technē is the end product while arete values choosing the action that promotes the best moral good.
Almost all these words still exist in modern Greek, they’re still being used
Clearly the author means "revived in modern intellectual discourse in the English language". And some of them already have, e.g. eudaimonia as described by the ancient Greeks is brought up all the time in the literature on "positive psychology".
It wasn't very clear to me, as "revive" has a connotation of "in the context it originally was". If I said "we should revive the dodo" I wouldn't immediately imagine a US zoo.
The Ancient Greek word “δαίμων” referred to a lesser god linked to a place (like the spirit of the hearth) or a person (like a guardian angel). Latin took this idea into the related word “genius” which in modern Romance languages can mean either an intelligent person or a person’s mood. In Spanish, “estar de mal genio” means “to be in a bad mood”. So then to have “ευδαιμονία” can mean “to be in a good mood” although it’s probably meant to be more permanent than that.
See:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/δαίμων#Ancient_Greek
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genius_(mythology)
See:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/δαίμων#Ancient_Greek
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genius_(mythology)
I am reminded of the name of Othello's wife, Desdemona, which shares a similar etymology (in fact they are antonyms of one another). The sense is "ill-fated" [0]
0: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Desdemona
0: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Desdemona
It's also the origin of daemon, as in NTP daemon.
Given the rise of AI, I think "enchiridion" might be a good one to start using, based on Stephenson's Diamond Age.
> From Ancient Greek ἐγχειρίδιον (enkheirídion), from ἐν (en, “in”) + χείρ (kheír, “hand”) + a neuter suffix.
And given how news, media, entertainment and politics always gravitates towards the least common denominator of knowledge and education forcing the rest of us to deal with both demagogues and TV shows about wealthy housewives, "ochlocracy" (mob rule) is another that needs a revival.
> From Middle French ochlocratie, from Ancient Greek ὀχλοκρατία (okhlokratía), from ὄχλος (ókhlos, “multitude, crowd”) + κράτος (krátos, “power”).
> From Ancient Greek ἐγχειρίδιον (enkheirídion), from ἐν (en, “in”) + χείρ (kheír, “hand”) + a neuter suffix.
And given how news, media, entertainment and politics always gravitates towards the least common denominator of knowledge and education forcing the rest of us to deal with both demagogues and TV shows about wealthy housewives, "ochlocracy" (mob rule) is another that needs a revival.
> From Middle French ochlocratie, from Ancient Greek ὀχλοκρατία (okhlokratía), from ὄχλος (ókhlos, “multitude, crowd”) + κράτος (krátos, “power”).
Ancient Greek was one of the best courses I had in university. It changed my view on language and western thinking quite a lot.
My favorite words are
μαθηματικὴ (mathematike): If I remember correctly, it means 1. learning, 2. letter or book and 3. "everything there is to know (for certain)".
χαίρε (chaire): Used as a greeting, literally "be happy!"
Also it is funny that βαίνω (baino) means: I am walking, while "Bein" means leg in German - the amount of Ancient Greek words in German and other languages is ridiculously high.
μαθηματικὴ (mathematike): If I remember correctly, it means 1. learning, 2. letter or book and 3. "everything there is to know (for certain)".
χαίρε (chaire): Used as a greeting, literally "be happy!"
Also it is funny that βαίνω (baino) means: I am walking, while "Bein" means leg in German - the amount of Ancient Greek words in German and other languages is ridiculously high.
I think it's more likely that–being an indo-european language–there are frequent cognates between Ancient Greek and other indo-european languages like German.
Here's[0] a massive list of them, and you can see cognates between languages you might not have thought would have them, like Sanskrit, Latin, and Ancient Greek sharing many cognates.
Fascinating subject, definitely.
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_vocabulary
Here's[0] a massive list of them, and you can see cognates between languages you might not have thought would have them, like Sanskrit, Latin, and Ancient Greek sharing many cognates.
Fascinating subject, definitely.
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_vocabulary
βαίνω and Bein are completely unrelated. "kommen" (and english "come") are related to βαίνω.
Cognate to Bein is „bone“ in English btw.
Yup! The German word Bein means both: Leg and Bone. Ethymology is a fascinating subject, for sure.
Wonderful list. Arete/ἀρετή immediately had me in self reflection examining where I've fallen short of my ideals.
I'd love to be skilled in Ancient Greek but alas it's not so. Unfortunately, my understanding of Ancient Grecian classics I've read comes only from English translations (Benjamin Jowett and others), and, no doubt, as good and as scholarly these translations are, my somewhat limited knowledge of modern languages such as French and German tells me that even the best translations fall short of the ideal—that of reading and understanding a text in its own language.
Every language has words whose meanings don't translate exactly into other languages, they've nuances that are lost in translation and even though skilled translators may understand their subtleties they have limited choices and must compromise.
More than ever, what this excellent little article has brought home to me is that those differences in meaning are much wider and more nuanced in Ancient Greek than in modern languages by virtue that ancient Greeks had a different perception of life and the world around them than those of us familiar with modern life.
It's logical sense that words used by those whose perceptions of life are foreign to ours have no simple or direct translation. However that could be to our advantage—with our newly acquired knowledge of these wonderful words it would nice if we could expand our own horizons. Perhaps difficult, but if we started using them in their Ancient Grecian context that may come with time (it seems those Ancient Greeks still have much to teach us).
Whilst I've considered these matters previously, reading this story has made them much more poignant
I'd love to be skilled in Ancient Greek but alas it's not so. Unfortunately, my understanding of Ancient Grecian classics I've read comes only from English translations (Benjamin Jowett and others), and, no doubt, as good and as scholarly these translations are, my somewhat limited knowledge of modern languages such as French and German tells me that even the best translations fall short of the ideal—that of reading and understanding a text in its own language.
Every language has words whose meanings don't translate exactly into other languages, they've nuances that are lost in translation and even though skilled translators may understand their subtleties they have limited choices and must compromise.
More than ever, what this excellent little article has brought home to me is that those differences in meaning are much wider and more nuanced in Ancient Greek than in modern languages by virtue that ancient Greeks had a different perception of life and the world around them than those of us familiar with modern life.
It's logical sense that words used by those whose perceptions of life are foreign to ours have no simple or direct translation. However that could be to our advantage—with our newly acquired knowledge of these wonderful words it would nice if we could expand our own horizons. Perhaps difficult, but if we started using them in their Ancient Grecian context that may come with time (it seems those Ancient Greeks still have much to teach us).
Whilst I've considered these matters previously, reading this story has made them much more poignant
English could get something shorter than "the day after tomorrow". Dictionaries show that "overmorrow" exists, but it isnt used much. Also it sounds confusing ("over... morrow").
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=now%201-d&geo=...
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=now%201-d&geo=...
I wonder how AI (ChatGPT) would think differently if its base language was something other than English. I asked it yesterday about Ancient Egyptian interested also to see how math (Greek/Egyptian) would be represented, but
ChatGPT on the language itself:
"To provide an example, let's consider a simple statement in English and explore how Ancient Egyptian could potentially convey additional information or nuances:
English statement: "The sun rises."
Equivalent statement in Ancient Egyptian (not a direct translation): "Ra, the life-giving sun, majestically ascends in the sky, illuminating the world and ushering in a new day."
In this example, the English statement conveys the basic idea that the sun rises. However, the Ancient Egyptian statement incorporates additional cultural and religious associations. It mentions Ra, the ancient Egyptian sun god, attributing the sun's rising to Ra's life-giving aspect. It also includes descriptions such as the sun's majestic ascension, its role in illuminating the world, and its symbolic significance of ushering in a new day.
By incorporating specific cultural references and poetic descriptions, the Ancient Egyptian statement provides a more elaborate and nuanced understanding of the sun's rising, capturing the broader context and symbolic layers associated with this natural phenomenon within the ancient Egyptian worldview.
Please note that the above example is a hypothetical representation and not a direct translation, as the complete nuances and intricacies of the Ancient Egyptian language and culture cannot be fully captured in English. It serves to illustrate the potential for additional information and cultural richness that can be conveyed in Ancient Egyptian beyond the basic content of an English statement."
"To provide an example, let's consider a simple statement in English and explore how Ancient Egyptian could potentially convey additional information or nuances:
English statement: "The sun rises."
Equivalent statement in Ancient Egyptian (not a direct translation): "Ra, the life-giving sun, majestically ascends in the sky, illuminating the world and ushering in a new day."
In this example, the English statement conveys the basic idea that the sun rises. However, the Ancient Egyptian statement incorporates additional cultural and religious associations. It mentions Ra, the ancient Egyptian sun god, attributing the sun's rising to Ra's life-giving aspect. It also includes descriptions such as the sun's majestic ascension, its role in illuminating the world, and its symbolic significance of ushering in a new day.
By incorporating specific cultural references and poetic descriptions, the Ancient Egyptian statement provides a more elaborate and nuanced understanding of the sun's rising, capturing the broader context and symbolic layers associated with this natural phenomenon within the ancient Egyptian worldview.
Please note that the above example is a hypothetical representation and not a direct translation, as the complete nuances and intricacies of the Ancient Egyptian language and culture cannot be fully captured in English. It serves to illustrate the potential for additional information and cultural richness that can be conveyed in Ancient Egyptian beyond the basic content of an English statement."
Your example is patently silly.
Do you really think that Ancient Egyptians didn't have a simple declarative statement that "the sun rises"?
Don't fall into exoticism. Ancient Egyptians were human beings speaking language for the purposes of communication in their day-to-day life, just like we do.
That being said, it definitely could be interesting to see how LLMs would work when trained on different language corpuses and other cultural contexts.
Do you really think that Ancient Egyptians didn't have a simple declarative statement that "the sun rises"?
Don't fall into exoticism. Ancient Egyptians were human beings speaking language for the purposes of communication in their day-to-day life, just like we do.
That being said, it definitely could be interesting to see how LLMs would work when trained on different language corpuses and other cultural contexts.
Not kairos?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kairos
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kairos
Nice thread about the word here:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28817494
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28817494
There are also the different words for love
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_words_for_love
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_words_for_love
My favourite awful example is Rhaphanidosis [1] -- the act of shoving a radish up a man's anus as a punishment, typically for adultery.
That sentence alone tells you an awful lot about the society it came from.
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhaphanidosis
That sentence alone tells you an awful lot about the society it came from.
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhaphanidosis
One of my favorite moments at Oracle was when we were on a business trip and had to get ready at 6:00 am (don't ask why). I said, "Ah, the rosy-fingered dawn!" and one guy actually got the reference.
============= This is Latin, not Greek, but ===========
Supposedly "Cicero" was pronounced "KICK-er-oo"
I don't care. I'm going to keep saying SISS-er-oh.
============= This is Latin, not Greek, but ===========
Supposedly "Cicero" was pronounced "KICK-er-oo"
I don't care. I'm going to keep saying SISS-er-oh.
And his name means Chickpea. :-)
Evidently (since it's the family name) it's because his ancestors farmed chickpeas, but I still like to imagine it as a personal nickname instead.
Evidently (since it's the family name) it's because his ancestors farmed chickpeas, but I still like to imagine it as a personal nickname instead.
I heard it was because of his ancestors' warts
The pronunciation of Latin will vary depending on whether you're relying on classical (restored/reconstructed) or ecclesiastical pronunciation. "Cicero" in the former is [ˈkɪkɛroː], whereas in the latter, it is [ˈtʃitʃero] which is close to the English pronunciation. In most European languages, the pronunciation is closer to the latter (e.g., the Polish "Cyceron"), while, e.g., in Greek it is closer to the former (Κικέρων).
[deleted]
And in modern Italian it's the latter.
https://phrontistery.info has been compiling ancient words, mostly of Greek origin, that have fallen out of use. The site's curator, Professor Chrisomalis, has been doing this for nearly thirty years, a labor of love, bringing color back into our vernacular.
Robwords (Rob Watts) YouTube channel about words and language had a Medieval words to bring back some of you may like too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wd08CqED0w&t=832s
"«Reviving»"? They are there.
eudaímonia: "a good spirit took you" - it is like saying, "a lucky star".
aretḗ: it is in the "arts", and in the idea of áriston, of the áristos ("aristocracy"). The "arya" is the noble because "artist" - That with a Goal ("artha").
phrónēma: that energetic inside - "frenetic".
kléos: today it would be "inclitus", but for some reason the term (which is present in some post-Latin languages) did not reach English. Edit: I am surprised (did not notice), the root of 'kléos' is the same of 'listen'.
And so on for the rest (still reading the list).
eudaímonia: "a good spirit took you" - it is like saying, "a lucky star".
aretḗ: it is in the "arts", and in the idea of áriston, of the áristos ("aristocracy"). The "arya" is the noble because "artist" - That with a Goal ("artha").
phrónēma: that energetic inside - "frenetic".
kléos: today it would be "inclitus", but for some reason the term (which is present in some post-Latin languages) did not reach English. Edit: I am surprised (did not notice), the root of 'kléos' is the same of 'listen'.
And so on for the rest (still reading the list).
Xenia is what the Xen hypervisor is named after.
Almost! :-)
I coined the term "Xenoserver" back in 1999, for a paper in IEEE HotOS proposing an architecture for allowing systems in core networks to safely accept and execute code from untrusted users (for a fee, of course!): https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/research/srg/netos/papers/1999-hoto...
I was inspired by the word "xenos" (meaning both stranger and guest, or in combination a stranger who you invited into your home) rather than the word "xenia" for the general concept of hospitality extended to such a stranger [EDIT: since I wasn't familiar with the word "xenia"].
The Xenoserver project at Cambridge University developed this idea, and eventually focused around the hypervisor, which took on the name Xen.
I coined the term "Xenoserver" back in 1999, for a paper in IEEE HotOS proposing an architecture for allowing systems in core networks to safely accept and execute code from untrusted users (for a fee, of course!): https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/research/srg/netos/papers/1999-hoto...
I was inspired by the word "xenos" (meaning both stranger and guest, or in combination a stranger who you invited into your home) rather than the word "xenia" for the general concept of hospitality extended to such a stranger [EDIT: since I wasn't familiar with the word "xenia"].
The Xenoserver project at Cambridge University developed this idea, and eventually focused around the hypervisor, which took on the name Xen.
Wow, HN is amazing. Thank you for the correction, the additional context, and your contributions to the field!
I was lucky enough to study Greek for two years in high school -- a lot of the early books of the Iliad focus around the concept of xenia (though unfortunately I don't remember the exact books we translated)
https://classicalwisdom.com/culture/literature/the-odyssey-b...
I hope Greek is still being taught, it's quite the puzzle.
https://classicalwisdom.com/culture/literature/the-odyssey-b...
I hope Greek is still being taught, it's quite the puzzle.
Not a term, but I’ve always found the fact that AG had two terms that map to nothing, e.g. my two favorite sayings: “toi sophoi xenon ouden” (the wise man is foreign to nothing) and “meden agan” (nothing in excess), one of the three Delphic Maxims: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphic_maxims
Ancient Greek has two negation particles:
>Ou is the negative adverb for facts and statements, negating both single words and sentences. Mê is the negative used in prohibitions and expressions of doubt meaning "not" and "no." As ou negates fact and statement; mê rejects, οu denies; mê is relative, ou absolute; mê subjective, ou objective.
The particles are found in the two words for "nothing" you mentioned, ouden/meden. Meden is usually found in imperatives, oaths, i.e. something you want to never happen, while ouden simply states that something never happens.
>Ou is the negative adverb for facts and statements, negating both single words and sentences. Mê is the negative used in prohibitions and expressions of doubt meaning "not" and "no." As ou negates fact and statement; mê rejects, οu denies; mê is relative, ou absolute; mê subjective, ou objective.
The particles are found in the two words for "nothing" you mentioned, ouden/meden. Meden is usually found in imperatives, oaths, i.e. something you want to never happen, while ouden simply states that something never happens.
As a Greek, living in Greece i second most of the terms. Know thyself (γνώθι σαυτόν) is a big one as well. Ancient Greeks were masters of psychology, i.e. what kind of animal humans are. Are we a good creature by nature or a bad one?
The more we study chimps the more we realize that we, as their descendants, are pretty vicious as well. Education by our parents, schools and social circles play a big role, to keep in check that viciousness. How much is any ones guess!
In my opinion we are gonna solve many of the psychological problems of humans in single digit years in the near future. Dr. Daniel Amen, have stated that after examining a hundred thousand brain scans of humans, every single psychological problem people have, is observed in brain scans, as reduced electrical signals in the brain. Problems like suicidal thoughts, depression you name it. Every one of them, means the brain do not fire enough electrical signals.
The best natural substance in the world, which we produce here in Greece from the ancient times, to solve that problem, is saffron. It is on par with the best synthetic anti-depressants, and probably better. Dr. Amen eats saffron every day, and i do as well.
So there is a solution for every person on the planet to be genius 1000x or a 1.000.000x, never suffer psychological ailments, and that is to eat a lot of saffron every day. Then most of the virtues in that list, will come natural to humans.
The more we study chimps the more we realize that we, as their descendants, are pretty vicious as well. Education by our parents, schools and social circles play a big role, to keep in check that viciousness. How much is any ones guess!
In my opinion we are gonna solve many of the psychological problems of humans in single digit years in the near future. Dr. Daniel Amen, have stated that after examining a hundred thousand brain scans of humans, every single psychological problem people have, is observed in brain scans, as reduced electrical signals in the brain. Problems like suicidal thoughts, depression you name it. Every one of them, means the brain do not fire enough electrical signals.
The best natural substance in the world, which we produce here in Greece from the ancient times, to solve that problem, is saffron. It is on par with the best synthetic anti-depressants, and probably better. Dr. Amen eats saffron every day, and i do as well.
So there is a solution for every person on the planet to be genius 1000x or a 1.000.000x, never suffer psychological ailments, and that is to eat a lot of saffron every day. Then most of the virtues in that list, will come natural to humans.
> "As a Greek, living in Greece i second most of the terms. Know thyself (γνώθι σαυτόν) is a big one as well. Ancient Greeks were masters of psychology, i.e. what kind of animal humans are. Are we a good creature by nature or a bad one?"
Cool! I hope we can learn from this rich vocabulary the Greeks have developed to describe and to understand our common nature.
> "So there is a solution for every person on the planet to be genius 1000x or a 1.000.000x, never suffer psychological ailments, and that is to eat a lot of saffron every day."
wait what
Cool! I hope we can learn from this rich vocabulary the Greeks have developed to describe and to understand our common nature.
> "So there is a solution for every person on the planet to be genius 1000x or a 1.000.000x, never suffer psychological ailments, and that is to eat a lot of saffron every day."
wait what
>Cool! I hope we can learn from this rich vocabulary the Greeks have developed to describe and to understand our common nature.
I have written an article recently, in which i renamed Tor -> Pandiodos, Torrent -> Logothece, Bitcoin -> Drattergon,
/google emporas lichess blog/ it is somewhere there.
I have written an article recently, in which i renamed Tor -> Pandiodos, Torrent -> Logothece, Bitcoin -> Drattergon,
/google emporas lichess blog/ it is somewhere there.
Yeah, that took a turn.
> The more we study chimps the more we realize that we, as their descendants
we are not descended from chimps
we are not descended from chimps
Your own link below implies this is an open debate; that it is at least arguable that the CHLCA is a species that would be correctly classified in Pan i.e. a chimp.
Yep, indeed i read it as well, there is not enough evidence to claim that for sure, but taxonomy is difficult even for living species on earth today. I thought, let's suppose for the sake of the argument, that Pan are different species.
I strongly recommend "You're Basically The Hagfish of Reptiles..." [1]. It will make your head spin.
[1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb_pvKbtWd8
I strongly recommend "You're Basically The Hagfish of Reptiles..." [1]. It will make your head spin.
[1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb_pvKbtWd8
To disambiguate, you mean we are evolutionary cousins, i think
we certainly share a common ancestor with chimps - exactly when the two current species diverged is a bit murky: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimpanzee%E2%80%93human_last_...
What's our closest relative animal, not gone extinct, which is alive in the world today, if not chimps?
Bonobos are exactly as close to us as chimpanzees (by descent). Maybe the “default“ human behavior, independent of the last x thousand years of culture, is closer to one or the other, but I don’t think there’s a good a priori reason to assume that we are “naturally” more chimp-like than bonobo-like.
I agree. Maybe the same variations between chimps and bonobos are exhibited between humans. So some of us are more like chimps, while others more like bonobos. Ancient Greeks said that "In peace, we are the best of the animals, in war, we are the worst".
that does not mean we are descended from them
Indeed it doesn't mean that, you are right. We share so many genes, so loosely speaking, we are their descendants. Which we are not, but for all practical purposes, we can approximately find correlations between our species, and that one, better than any other.
We are descended from chimps in the same way that I am descended from my cousin.
Edit: I'm realizing this could be a language barrier. "Descendent" is the inverse of "ancestor". A descendent is directly downward in lineage from an ancestor.
Edit: I'm realizing this could be a language barrier. "Descendent" is the inverse of "ancestor". A descendent is directly downward in lineage from an ancestor.
Oh, yeah, maybe that is. So with chimps we share a common ancestor. Even more accurate, chimps are our closest relative species living on earth today, with which we share the more close/recent ancestor.
First I'd heard of this, but there is some preliminary evidence that saffron has positive effects on depressive symptoms:
https://academic.oup.com/nutritionreviews/article/77/8/557/5...
But if this was really significant, you'd expect saffron-producing/eating countries to stand out. Iran is #1, are they really all 1,000,000x happy geniuses?
https://academic.oup.com/nutritionreviews/article/77/8/557/5...
But if this was really significant, you'd expect saffron-producing/eating countries to stand out. Iran is #1, are they really all 1,000,000x happy geniuses?
Actually it is very expensive. I am talking about consuming a lot of grams every day, 50 to 100 grams, which is not a lot given it is roughly 1/1000 of the weight of a normal human, but it is the luxury of a millionaire for the moment. It is true that we most probably don't see any statistical correlation between saffron consumption and intelligence, especially in a country level, but i would argue, that the dosage makes the genius.
Some of the virtues of the article, are a state of mind anyway, that's why i mention saffron. Many people are eating too much, only to feel better. Food has certainly the ability to alter our state of mind, which in some cases ends up in obesity.
Virtues in the article, like apatheia, ataraxia, eudaimonia include in their meaning, not indulging in every pleasure in excess, and food is one of them. Well, that can be automated by producing more saffron and lowering it's price.
Some of the virtues of the article, are a state of mind anyway, that's why i mention saffron. Many people are eating too much, only to feel better. Food has certainly the ability to alter our state of mind, which in some cases ends up in obesity.
Virtues in the article, like apatheia, ataraxia, eudaimonia include in their meaning, not indulging in every pleasure in excess, and food is one of them. Well, that can be automated by producing more saffron and lowering it's price.
> [take 50 to 100 grams of saffron]
The dose is the poison - take care with spices.
My friend died young of liver failure due to eating comfrey as a vegetable.
The dose is the poison - take care with spices.
My friend died young of liver failure due to eating comfrey as a vegetable.
> 50 to 100 grams
Saffron is toxic at that dose, very likely lethal. Please stay safe.
Saffron is toxic at that dose, very likely lethal. Please stay safe.
I haven't seen anywhere mentioning any toxicity to the spice. Everywhere i looked no side effects. That costs too much money for me anyway, to eat a lot of it, and i guess for most people. A millionaire who values his brain too much, may try it. Someone like PG or Marc Andersen.
[edit]I would love to see PG coming back, programming a new Common Lisp by hand, and writing a 1000 page manual just by himself, if he gets a supercharged brain. GPT and Artificial intelligence will be left back in the dust.
[edit]I would love to see PG coming back, programming a new Common Lisp by hand, and writing a 1000 page manual just by himself, if he gets a supercharged brain. GPT and Artificial intelligence will be left back in the dust.
Vouching for saffron, definitely great!
Just... not too sure how we ended up here considering the topic of OP.
Just... not too sure how we ended up here considering the topic of OP.
Well, given our modern understanding of chemicals in the brain, many of the states of mind Ancient Greeks advocated for, can be summarized as: avoid short dopamine hits. The brain really loves dopamine hits, it stimulates electrical activity. I am sure that there is a way, to stimulate electrical activity, without using machines, a natural way to stimulate our brain 1000x and 1.000.000x just by using some kind of food or natural occurring substance. In my opinion that problem will be solved by saffron.
How many people drive their car full speed without being in a hurry? Or how many people eat more than their energy requirements dictate to? I think there is a solution to that, and that is saffron.
How many people drive their car full speed without being in a hurry? Or how many people eat more than their energy requirements dictate to? I think there is a solution to that, and that is saffron.
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> …saffron…
superstition in Latin
superstition in Latin
One concept I liked recently in my life, in relation to the others mentioned, is "Edoni" (Pleasure) as expressed by Epicurus. I approach it as the cognitive, psychological and physical state where both your senses get enjoyed AND your being is improved.
An example from daily life, binging random digital content is not Pleasure, enjoying a documentary or music is.
An example from daily life, binging random digital content is not Pleasure, enjoying a documentary or music is.
If reading this explainer listicle awakens any curiosity in you, consider taking ancient philosophy course; coming to grips with the foreignness and yet the claim these terms still hold over wester civilization is one way of describing the basic task of such a course.
For what is worth, most of these words are still being used in modern Greece (I'm Greek).
Completely tangential to the list itself, I find the only illustration in this article a bit jarring. It lists the adventures of Odysseus during his journey home and prominently highlights "7 years 'forced' to be a sex slave" with that section in the accompanying bar chart marked with hearts. The quotation marks and hearts suggest this is intended to imply that the sex was voluntary and he was free to leave at any time. I find this pretty vile, especially given that sexual abuse and rape of men by women is still a social taboo.
The story of the Odyssee describes Odysseus as being (literally) charmed by Calypso, a nymph with magical powers. Odysseus is described as longing for his wife, crying himself to sleep and Calypso using him for sex against his will. This is as straightforward as it gets when it comes to a description in Ancient Greece of a man being raped by a woman.
After skimming a few of the other unpaid articles it seems the author prefers implying their biases over outright stating them, often publishing articles with promising or suggestive titles, presenting two sides of an argument, then leaving the conclusion to the readers whose responses may or may not end up in the next article's "mailbag" section. Upon closer inspection the two sides are rarely truly representative of the entire spectrum of an issue, instead revealing a consistent political bent, e.g. Ayn Rand being contrasted with a free market liberal opinion.
It's always worth widening your horizon by reading material from people with contrasting opinions but it's also worth keeping in mind the bias of an author when engaging with their work, especially if it tries to appear objective and neutral.
The story of the Odyssee describes Odysseus as being (literally) charmed by Calypso, a nymph with magical powers. Odysseus is described as longing for his wife, crying himself to sleep and Calypso using him for sex against his will. This is as straightforward as it gets when it comes to a description in Ancient Greece of a man being raped by a woman.
After skimming a few of the other unpaid articles it seems the author prefers implying their biases over outright stating them, often publishing articles with promising or suggestive titles, presenting two sides of an argument, then leaving the conclusion to the readers whose responses may or may not end up in the next article's "mailbag" section. Upon closer inspection the two sides are rarely truly representative of the entire spectrum of an issue, instead revealing a consistent political bent, e.g. Ayn Rand being contrasted with a free market liberal opinion.
It's always worth widening your horizon by reading material from people with contrasting opinions but it's also worth keeping in mind the bias of an author when engaging with their work, especially if it tries to appear objective and neutral.
What they call out as "phronesis" I've previously seen by a different, but presumably related name
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophrosyne
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophrosyne
I was lucky to have taken a greco-roman class in (public) high school and consider myself fortunate that the terms 'arete' 'oikos' and 'aidos' were covered. Fundamental to who I (hope) I am today.
For those interested in immersive learning of ancient Greek and Latin, I highly recommend Legio XIII: https://youtu.be/nl19S9lxADo
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnothi_seauton_(disambiguation...
was one i thought would be on there.
was one i thought would be on there.
More directly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_thyself
And generally speaking most of the Delphic maxims still have their validity despite the thousands of years that separate them from us: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphic_maxims
And generally speaking most of the Delphic maxims still have their validity despite the thousands of years that separate them from us: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphic_maxims
I'm disappointed to not find https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anasyrma on the list.
No we can't revive these terms, that would be prescriptivism.
"excellence", without any qualifiers, already means "of any kind". If it's not of any kind, that needs to be specified.
Tried a couple terms mentioned in the document w/ Bing GPT chat, and it gives really good answer, almost identical to this web page.
A bit less bare-bones list of 12 items:
https://rentry.co/12theses
https://rentry.co/12theses
my favorite of this is Episteme - i spend a lot of time thinking about how we know what we think we know, and wish that more people did as well before mouthing off completely incorrect or unexamined beliefs (esp not understanding when the dependencies under which they are true, are no longer true).
p.s. TIL that Odysseus was forced to be a sex slave for 7 years?
p.s. TIL that Odysseus was forced to be a sex slave for 7 years?
Forced!
Yes. He was captured by Calypso, and held on an island against his will. It's said he wept bitterly every night at the shore, longing to be back with his wife. He was not in control, he was not happy, he was not free to leave.
So yeah, forced seems right.
So yeah, forced seems right.
This list is missing "entelechy", which is a lovely word to say as well as having an interesting meaning.
Another interesting term is kairos, or "the right moment", which is crucial for the good outcome of an action.
All the rhetorical terms are useful and could use a comeback- logos, pathos and especially ethos.
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kleos renown, glory ==> Cleon (Foundation)?
No love for pleonexia?
Eudaimonia THIS IS AN ANCIENT GREEK WORD, normally translated as 'fulfilment', particularly emphasised by the philosopher Aristotle. It deserves wider currency because it corrects the shortfalls in one of the most central terms in our contemporary idiom: happiness. The Ancient Greeks resolutely did not believe that the purpose of life was to be happy; they proposed that it was to be fulfilled. What distinguishes happiness from fulfilment is pain. It is eminently possible to be fulfilled and, at the same time, under pressure, suffering physically or mentally, overburdened and in a tetchy mood. Many of life's most worthwhile projects will, at points, be quite at odds with contentment, but may be worth pursuing nevertheless. Henceforth, we shouldn't try to be happy; we should accept the greater realism, ambition and patience that accompanies the quest for eudaimonia.