Birds Build Nests from Anti-Bird Spikes(nytimes.com)
nytimes.com
Birds Build Nests from Anti-Bird Spikes
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/13/science/magpies-birds-nests.html
82 comments
Kinda reminds me of how some older people would pick up their prescriptions at my Dad's pharmacy and tell him "Don't give me any of those child-proof caps. I don't have any children at home to open them for me."
Continuing tangent:
The Optum RX mail-order pharmacy has caps where both sides can be the "bottom" and screw onto the bottle, but one side is childproof and the other is just a normal screw attachment. Since they come with the childproof side of the cap engaged, this does present the bootstrapping problem of getting the bottle open to begin with, but thereafter you can just use the other side of the cap.
The Optum RX mail-order pharmacy has caps where both sides can be the "bottom" and screw onto the bottle, but one side is childproof and the other is just a normal screw attachment. Since they come with the childproof side of the cap engaged, this does present the bootstrapping problem of getting the bottle open to begin with, but thereafter you can just use the other side of the cap.
I believe those bottles are common at many US pharmacies these days.
I've heard of these but never seen one. I don't have any prescriptions though.
They're pretty common. I had a sinus infection earlier this year that wouldn't go away and had to get some antibiotics. I picked up the RX from a local Walmart pharmacy (closer to where I live) and they use the same double-sided caps.
But again, it's like the other OP said: The childproof side is the one that they put on first which could present an issue for older people. I'd imagine you could ask them not to do that, though. I never really thought about it.
But again, it's like the other OP said: The childproof side is the one that they put on first which could present an issue for older people. I'd imagine you could ask them not to do that, though. I never really thought about it.
[deleted]
They often look like this, note the threads on the top of the cap, they can be flipped over and used as a simple threaded cap with no child lock:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/Walgreen...
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/Walgreen...
https://archive.is/7QMu7
Previous discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36689463
It's hard to forget that hair.
Previous discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36689463
It's hard to forget that hair.
Auke-Florian is great. He's a talented presenter in addition to being a scientist. In The Netherlands, he is sometimes flown in for sciency sound bites on national television. Memorable hair, indeed. https://youtu.be/UgnK483jiDE
What does the NYTimes article add to the previous article at naturalis.nl other than a paywall?
Better pictures. I read the naturalis article and had no real clue what I was looking at.
I have a shed in my backyard that contains a hobby electronics workbench. A couple of years ago, I could swear that I was going through through hole 104 capacitors faster than I could reconcile.
Around this time I noticed that a vent hole in the side of the shed was uncovered, and likely had been for some time, which I fixed.
A few months later I was doing a good spring cleaning, and I found in the eaves of the shed a nest made mostly of long pine needles (from outside the shed), but with a substantial spattering of through-hole components too!
A bird had found the broken vent, and made a home in the shed using whatever ‘sticks’ were handy to build its nest. Unfortunately I probably blocked it off from its home when I repaired the vent. I’m glad to say no eggs or dead baby chicks were in it when I found it…
Around this time I noticed that a vent hole in the side of the shed was uncovered, and likely had been for some time, which I fixed.
A few months later I was doing a good spring cleaning, and I found in the eaves of the shed a nest made mostly of long pine needles (from outside the shed), but with a substantial spattering of through-hole components too!
A bird had found the broken vent, and made a home in the shed using whatever ‘sticks’ were handy to build its nest. Unfortunately I probably blocked it off from its home when I repaired the vent. I’m glad to say no eggs or dead baby chicks were in it when I found it…
You had a birduino flying in for components. :D
My recollection is many birds use their nests for 2 to 4 weeks, so maybe it was finished with your capacitors by the time you found them. I love this story.
that sounds really interesting, do you by any chance have a picture of it? would really love to see
I wish I did!
Unfortunately it was above head height, and I had it half dismantled (‘What are all these pine needles doing up here?! And - wait - capacitors?!’) before I realized what it was.
Unfortunately it was above head height, and I had it half dismantled (‘What are all these pine needles doing up here?! And - wait - capacitors?!’) before I realized what it was.
Good on you for following up on the nest to determine the potential aftermath.
I found this to be frustratingly light on detail. The most obvious question, the question hanging over basically every sentence: don't they, uh, hurt? How do you incorporate spikes into a nest without living a life of constantly being pricked?
It does mention that Antwerp magpies have a special use where spikes are outward pointing, effectively helping to create a bunker keeping predators away. It also says something frustratingly vague about spikes being bent "inward" and vaguely referencing structural support, which evokes an image of the pokey from Matilda.
But, this article creates the feeling that you can only get from the internet, a feeling like you're in a room with a thousand people but also with nobody. Because the obvious question, well, if you pressed your hand down on such a nest, would it be spiky? If so, is the life of a bird relying on these for a nest a torturous life of constantly choosing its steps carefully in a nest that's a blend of spikes and ordinary debris? Is there some creative design that they have resorted to that mitigates this? Are they just light enough that they can do some bird equivalent of the human laying on a bed of spikes trick? Maybe the statistical average of all the different angles of the spikes, when arranged into a meshy nest, is such that the "bed" has an average consistency that's bearable to the birds?
It's like all of the normal questions I would want to ask, but the only specific comments in the article are about things that appear to be unusual special cases.
It does mention that Antwerp magpies have a special use where spikes are outward pointing, effectively helping to create a bunker keeping predators away. It also says something frustratingly vague about spikes being bent "inward" and vaguely referencing structural support, which evokes an image of the pokey from Matilda.
But, this article creates the feeling that you can only get from the internet, a feeling like you're in a room with a thousand people but also with nobody. Because the obvious question, well, if you pressed your hand down on such a nest, would it be spiky? If so, is the life of a bird relying on these for a nest a torturous life of constantly choosing its steps carefully in a nest that's a blend of spikes and ordinary debris? Is there some creative design that they have resorted to that mitigates this? Are they just light enough that they can do some bird equivalent of the human laying on a bed of spikes trick? Maybe the statistical average of all the different angles of the spikes, when arranged into a meshy nest, is such that the "bed" has an average consistency that's bearable to the birds?
It's like all of the normal questions I would want to ask, but the only specific comments in the article are about things that appear to be unusual special cases.
Bird spikes are dull. The goal is not to hurt birds. They just create a surface that is less practical to land or rest on.
They do this by being vertical, parallel, and too close together for a bird to get a good sideways grip on any one spike. They don't prick the birds.
This means they're effectively a forest of highly uniform metal twigs.
Ordinary nest building with removed spikes would create a surface as comfortable as any other nest. It's not like twigs aren't pokey.
They do this by being vertical, parallel, and too close together for a bird to get a good sideways grip on any one spike. They don't prick the birds.
This means they're effectively a forest of highly uniform metal twigs.
Ordinary nest building with removed spikes would create a surface as comfortable as any other nest. It's not like twigs aren't pokey.
That doesn't mean they can't be cruel, of course. I've seen a bird die on these spikes.
Absolutely. "Dull" is relative. They're cut-off wire. It hasn't been sharpened but it hasn't been dulled.
A bird flying in for a landing can certainly impale itself if it doesn't realize the spikes are there. All about speed and momentum.
They just not particularly sharp from the perspective of a feather-covered animal moving gently through a nest so as to not damage the eggs. They aren't needles.
A bird flying in for a landing can certainly impale itself if it doesn't realize the spikes are there. All about speed and momentum.
They just not particularly sharp from the perspective of a feather-covered animal moving gently through a nest so as to not damage the eggs. They aren't needles.
Gotta hand it to corvids. They're not doing it by accident, they know exactly what they're doing. I don't know what's up with the crows that are pointing the spikes inward. Do we have self-loathing millenial crows out there? Is it an art statement or some kind of metaphor for crow life, to attract gothy crow girls?
Another fundamental question not addressed:
> Rows of these sharp metal pins have become a common feature of the urban environment, installed on rooftops and ledges to discourage birds from perching or nesting on buildings.
Who installs these things and why? Maybe I'm not urban enough, but I don't understand why you'd even install these things. What's wrong with birds perching on a building?
> Rows of these sharp metal pins have become a common feature of the urban environment, installed on rooftops and ledges to discourage birds from perching or nesting on buildings.
Who installs these things and why? Maybe I'm not urban enough, but I don't understand why you'd even install these things. What's wrong with birds perching on a building?
The most common use near where I live is protecting signs, lights, or electronic equipment from bird poo. Second most common is protecting whatever is underneath the spikes, like car parking, pedestrian paths, or windows. You see them a lot in train stations protecting the electronic signs so they stay readable, or anything else hung from the roof which people might stand under.
Generally birds have plenty of other places to rest where they won't be inconvenient to humans. I've never seen anyone cover an entire rooftop with spikes.
Generally birds have plenty of other places to rest where they won't be inconvenient to humans. I've never seen anyone cover an entire rooftop with spikes.
They shit everywhere. Pigeons especially. A layer of bird shit is bad for your health and bad for business.
They also defecate on your building. Especially with doves this can turn your building nasty looking quickly and balconies unuseable.
I’m going to have to install some screen mesh around the tops of the pillars around my home entryway, because birds keep perching and trying to build nests there. Just yesterday had to remove a house finch nest that appeared the other day. As much as I like them, I’m not letting them do that there.
The problem is when birds hang around someplace, they quickly cover the ledges, walls and ground with shit.
That and I don’t want baby birds screaming at 4am a few meters from where I sleep.
The problem is when birds hang around someplace, they quickly cover the ledges, walls and ground with shit.
That and I don’t want baby birds screaming at 4am a few meters from where I sleep.
Trash approach, let the birds be, must you control everything?
[deleted]
Pigeons, mostly. They poop on everything and that accumulated poop can be a real health hazard.
https://www.nyc.gov/site/doh/health/health-topics/pigeon.pag...
If you think birds don't poop a lot remember there are entire islands made of bird poop.
https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/nauru
https://www.nyc.gov/site/doh/health/health-topics/pigeon.pag...
If you think birds don't poop a lot remember there are entire islands made of bird poop.
https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/nauru
I have a rooftop deck on my house. I put up some wooden poles to hang some lights on and after my first summer with the poles up they were all covered in bird poop.
It's not a problem here in the winter when it rains enough that the poop washes away but we can go weeks or months in the summer and the accumulation of poop can smell bad.
Some bird spikes on the top of each pole has mostly solved the problem.
It's not a problem here in the winter when it rains enough that the poop washes away but we can go weeks or months in the summer and the accumulation of poop can smell bad.
Some bird spikes on the top of each pole has mostly solved the problem.
Birds only weigh a few ounces. They're not compressing their nests so hard that fairly dull spikes would cut into them.
> you can only get from the internet
It’s a NYT article, how exactly is reading it online different from reading it in a newspaper?
It’s a NYT article, how exactly is reading it online different from reading it in a newspaper?
The relevant part is in the discussion section towards the end. These nests aren't exclusively made of spikes. Often it's just the roofs, which serve to defend against attack by other birds but which don't have support the nest builder.
That is amazing. They are using them for their intended purpose, to keep birds away! And those structures look post-modern. Hats off to you birds!
I had birds build a nest in a nook where I put the spikes going up and down like stalactites and stalagmites. They didn’t care and built right in the middle of the spikes… will look at just boarding up the nook next year I guess.
It was explained in the original Dutch video that birds choose to build a nest under the spikes, because it protects them from other animals trying to steal their eggs.
This sort of happens in the wild too. Weaverbirds spend their life on spiny trees and build their nests on branches of such spiny trees.
Here's the actual paper (in English):
https://www.hetnatuurhistorisch.nl/fileadmin/user_upload/doc...
https://www.hetnatuurhistorisch.nl/fileadmin/user_upload/doc...
This reminds me of an art project that I've wanted to do for a long time -- turning anti-homeless fixtures into furniture, or augmenting the fixtures to be comfortable.
For example, some sloped areas have spikes to prevent folks from reclining or laying down, but it would be possible to build a chair/bed that's held in place by those very spikes.
For example, some sloped areas have spikes to prevent folks from reclining or laying down, but it would be possible to build a chair/bed that's held in place by those very spikes.
Spikes and other stuff like these never work. You know what does ? This : https://www.amazon.com/Hausse-Scarecrow-Sculpture-Deterrents...
It's also cheaper, looks better and protect a much larger area.
It's also cheaper, looks better and protect a much larger area.
My city has these kite-like predatory bird -resembling bird-scare things on some buildings. Hawk-shaped kite tied on a length of string to a building roof. When the wind picks up, it animates the kite to look like a predatory bird hovering. Very effective.
There is a grocery store near me with a dove nesting on a light fixture directly above the entry. A fake owl is two feet away. The dove doesn't care.
Right up until they realize it never moves?
A friend of mine got a pond with fishes in his garden, that longed acted (unfortunately for the fishes) as a food store for herons migrating. He then used a fake heron that worked pretty well the first year, but not the second. Next years he moved the plastic heron every couple weeks during the period he knows they comes and apparently this works.
He’s from Europe and use his own experience but apparently this site may help for US residents
https://explorer.audubon.org/explore/species/1387/great-blue...
He’s from Europe and use his own experience but apparently this site may help for US residents
https://explorer.audubon.org/explore/species/1387/great-blue...
I went to university by the sea in a town known for its pterodactyl-like seagulls. Not only were the sculptures ineffective the real hawks they hired to scare the gulls apparently got turfed out by them!
You could always tell who the freshers were on sight, they were the only people who didn't know you don't eat outside without suitable cover.
You could always tell who the freshers were on sight, they were the only people who didn't know you don't eat outside without suitable cover.
> real hawks they hired to scare the gulls apparently got turfed out by them
Lots of raptors, especially falcons, are essentially specialised sprint predators and won't pick a fight with another bird any more than a cheetah would try to fight a hyena.
Lots of raptors, especially falcons, are essentially specialised sprint predators and won't pick a fight with another bird any more than a cheetah would try to fight a hyena.
Pigeons are rats of the air and seagulls are hyenas of the air. Sounds about right. And Canada geese are cobra chickens.
Interestingly, pigeons fly fast and in a straight race can outfly many falcons. The falcons rely on a very fast stoop from above, slamming talons-first into the target bird hard enough to break its neck or even decapitate it.
Dinosaurs never really went away, they just Moore's law'd themselves.
It doesn't take a lot of effort to research potential predator/competitors for seagulls and then hold trials on what works. There's a lot of options, and if the gang doesn't seem intimidated by your choice of predators, invent one.
I'm sure this would be a very interesting project for any student!
I'm sure this would be a very interesting project for any student!
Unless you're reintroducing a native species to the area or providing habitat for existing-but-endangered species, you're probably going to raise the wrong kind of eyebrows with that kind of research.
These researchers say they're rooting for the birds after all.
Humans have a long history of solving small problems by introducing bigger problems re: introducing non native species.
These researchers say they're rooting for the birds after all.
Humans have a long history of solving small problems by introducing bigger problems re: introducing non native species.
I was thinking about little resin sculptures of birds. Not living creatures.
I'm rooting for the birds too, but I'd also like humans to stop putting metal spikes on stuff.
I'm rooting for the birds too, but I'd also like humans to stop putting metal spikes on stuff.
Looks better? Highly subjective. I have some kind of birds that build nests in a corner of my front porch that's about ~18ft above ground. I'm not sure a plastic own hanging out up there would be the most welcoming.
Oh, those are the statues the pigeons sat on and pooped on at my last company’s patio.
Life, uh, finds a way.
I think they know. I definitely think they know when they crap on your head.
This sounds like a particularly useful adaptation for shrikes[0], so they can impale their prey directly into their "dining room".
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrike
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrike
I wish people would stop posting paywalled links.
We could build websites from snippets of paywalled links. Just using them as resource for something usefull.
I have the following bookmarklet saved. When I hit a paywall that can't be defeated by readerview I use this:
"javascript:window.open('://archive.is/'+window.location.href.replace(window.location.search,''))"
(Put "https" before the "://" - I couldn't work out how to prevent it being turned into a URL otherwise.)
"javascript:window.open('://archive.is/'+window.location.href.replace(window.location.search,''))"
(Put "https" before the "://" - I couldn't work out how to prevent it being turned into a URL otherwise.)
I know how to bypass it, but websites should see a dropoff of clicks under paywall if it is to be discouraged. I do pay for writing that I know and like, don't get me wrong, but if the NYT want to have a member-only website, so be it.
ogou(2)
blitzar(4)
"if something isn't working, it does not mean we should stop selling it"
-big pharma