Walmart didn’t kill the small town, it is the small town(discoursemagazine.com)
discoursemagazine.com
Walmart didn’t kill the small town, it is the small town
https://www.discoursemagazine.com/culture-and-society/2023/07/24/walmart-didnt-kill-the-small-town-the-small-town-did/
180 comments
Walmart won't run an unprofitable store, as you mentioned. From my time working there[0] their strategy was mostly to put stores as far out as possible from a warehouse hub and work backward. To be honest, Walmart isn't known for closing alot of stores, they tend be very good at figuring this stuff out, at least.
Which is to say, I know they don't take a loss on stores, even news ones. They may have loss leaders, but they make a small (and I mean small) profit on most things sold in the store. Its all about volume.
Their labor practices are quite abhorrent. Not to mention they employ enough people to make a small city (2 Million+ last I checked). I don't know if they been good on balance or not, I do know they are the epitome of Corporate Exploitative Practices[1]
They also have an entire division that exists just to extract tax favor-ability for building in places. They've gotten really good at pitting towns against each other for their business.
That said, all of this is true for Target too. All of it. It just doesn't have the same poor brand reputation and it being the smaller of the two it gets less media attention for its poor practices.
[0]: I really resent them after working there though. I haven't stepped foot in an WalMart since that time period. It worked for that time in my life and I had one of the "better" jobs for sure, but it was rough to see what they did to associates and being part of that machine.
[1]: Its well studied that they have an enormous amount of their workforce on government subsidies / benefits. To the point that they have handouts to help people get on assistance that work there, rather than pay them a living wage. Its nuts when you really think about it.
Which is to say, I know they don't take a loss on stores, even news ones. They may have loss leaders, but they make a small (and I mean small) profit on most things sold in the store. Its all about volume.
Their labor practices are quite abhorrent. Not to mention they employ enough people to make a small city (2 Million+ last I checked). I don't know if they been good on balance or not, I do know they are the epitome of Corporate Exploitative Practices[1]
They also have an entire division that exists just to extract tax favor-ability for building in places. They've gotten really good at pitting towns against each other for their business.
That said, all of this is true for Target too. All of it. It just doesn't have the same poor brand reputation and it being the smaller of the two it gets less media attention for its poor practices.
[0]: I really resent them after working there though. I haven't stepped foot in an WalMart since that time period. It worked for that time in my life and I had one of the "better" jobs for sure, but it was rough to see what they did to associates and being part of that machine.
[1]: Its well studied that they have an enormous amount of their workforce on government subsidies / benefits. To the point that they have handouts to help people get on assistance that work there, rather than pay them a living wage. Its nuts when you really think about it.
I'm fairly sure the author agrees with you. "Walmart is evil" is a core thesis of American intellectuals and can be taken a base assumption for any reader of a magazine such as the Discourse. So repeating that thesis doesn't add to the conversation.
But given that base assumption, this is a discussion of a novel explanation one of the reasons why Walmart got successful, and a suggestion for how downtowns could replicate that factor. Many have mentioned that one of the reasons that Walmart is successful is because they're easier to get to for the average car-driving American. But once there, they're convenient because you don't have to dodge traffic while navigating between departments.
Wouldn't downtowns be a lot nicer if, like Walmart, they were easy to drive to, but impossible to drive through? What if getting from the boutique to the restaurant to the theatre was easy as crossing the aisle to a different department in Walmart?
But given that base assumption, this is a discussion of a novel explanation one of the reasons why Walmart got successful, and a suggestion for how downtowns could replicate that factor. Many have mentioned that one of the reasons that Walmart is successful is because they're easier to get to for the average car-driving American. But once there, they're convenient because you don't have to dodge traffic while navigating between departments.
Wouldn't downtowns be a lot nicer if, like Walmart, they were easy to drive to, but impossible to drive through? What if getting from the boutique to the restaurant to the theatre was easy as crossing the aisle to a different department in Walmart?
I think you’ve reinvented the mall.
Seems the difference is a mall requires checkout at each “department”, Walmart only once. (Also can be cheaper because of economies of scale, though this can adversely effect convenience—you don’t have to man every department at all times a WalMart is open.)
You've now re-invented the mall killer.
TBH loitering killed malls more than a centralized checkout. They became one of the few places for teens to hangout and teens don't have much money. No coincidence that the remaining malls tend to be in high income areas.
But I digress. The removal of hangout spots in the country (especially post pandemic) can be its own topic.
But I digress. The removal of hangout spots in the country (especially post pandemic) can be its own topic.
Except that doesn’t make sense. Malls were teen hangouts for 2 decades and thrived. What killed our mall was that all the anchor stores were getting killed by Walmart and target.
The areas that were "high-income" (cheap for white commuters aspiring to the upper-middle-class) a generation before got more and more developed, and at some point in trying to attain big-city convenience, gained the big-city problems they were trying to avoid.
Our mall lost 2 major department stores when we got a Walmart and target. They lost 2 more after Amazon got big. The target and Costco a few blocks away are thriving with the affluent families. The mall isn’t economically competitive anymore.
There are malls that are competitive...one near me survived by anchoring itself to a Nordstrom's and then aiming higher. But that isn't "the mall".
You’ve missed mentioning another effect on the area: siphoning cash out.
No matter how big their local profit is, the only money reliably returned to the local area is a portion of those minimum-wage incomes.
And of those, a not-insignificant amount comes right back in to Walmart as the employees shop for basics. The rest of the money gets pulled out for corporate capital expenditures never to be seen by the local area again.
Walmart basically runs like a giant cash-vacuum.
No matter how big their local profit is, the only money reliably returned to the local area is a portion of those minimum-wage incomes.
And of those, a not-insignificant amount comes right back in to Walmart as the employees shop for basics. The rest of the money gets pulled out for corporate capital expenditures never to be seen by the local area again.
Walmart basically runs like a giant cash-vacuum.
> sell at a loss
They don't even necessarily need to sell at a loss. They can also just get economies of scale that don't work for tiny local businesses.
Still has the same effect in the end.
They don't even necessarily need to sell at a loss. They can also just get economies of scale that don't work for tiny local businesses.
Still has the same effect in the end.
Or they sell "the same" (looks the same but it's lower quality) product as other stores but at a lower price, as a Walmart -exclusive.
Yep. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercatus_Center
Brought to you by the same folks who denied global warming for years like Cato to shill for corporate interests at the expense of our survival and that of all life.
Brought to you by the same folks who denied global warming for years like Cato to shill for corporate interests at the expense of our survival and that of all life.
Focusing here on the "Walmart Didn’t Kill the Small Town" part of the story.
I recently purchased some land in one of the rare US towns that does not have a Walmart (or any big box store). In fact, there are no big box stores within 100 miles of this town. It's a town with about 2,500 people, all within the town core, almost no population in the outlying areas. Not enough population to support a box store.
The business in this town is absolutely booming right now. For example, the coffee shop I was at the other day had eight employees working at the time I was there, and it was quite busy. Main Street is lined with retail merchants that appear to be doing well. Restaurants are packed. People are really nice.
I'm even building a business there.
About 100+ miles south is a larger, but still isolated, community with a Walmart. It took me about 30 minutes of driving around to find a coffee shop, and the one I finally found was understaffed and mediocre. Most small retail strips were deserted. People in this town seemed miserable.
I think there are multiple reasons why the first town is doing so well right now, but the thing that struck me immediately when I came to this town was that there was no Walmart. I really believe that is the main reason this town is thriving.
I recently purchased some land in one of the rare US towns that does not have a Walmart (or any big box store). In fact, there are no big box stores within 100 miles of this town. It's a town with about 2,500 people, all within the town core, almost no population in the outlying areas. Not enough population to support a box store.
The business in this town is absolutely booming right now. For example, the coffee shop I was at the other day had eight employees working at the time I was there, and it was quite busy. Main Street is lined with retail merchants that appear to be doing well. Restaurants are packed. People are really nice.
I'm even building a business there.
About 100+ miles south is a larger, but still isolated, community with a Walmart. It took me about 30 minutes of driving around to find a coffee shop, and the one I finally found was understaffed and mediocre. Most small retail strips were deserted. People in this town seemed miserable.
I think there are multiple reasons why the first town is doing so well right now, but the thing that struck me immediately when I came to this town was that there was no Walmart. I really believe that is the main reason this town is thriving.
Cherish it, because that's a rare small town in the US. Usually the reason they don't have big box stores is because they're becoming economically desolate by that point where no economic engine can really help it along. I've heard of it referred to as "zombie towns".
The fact its that small, and thriving, and I hope has a reason COL, makes it a rare gem.
I'm curious too, do you have fiber internet out there? An interesting phenomenon we had in the midwest is that rural-ish areas got fiber to the home years faster than most major urban or suburban metros did because the cost to run the fiber was cheap and often the ISPs out there are co-ops
The fact its that small, and thriving, and I hope has a reason COL, makes it a rare gem.
I'm curious too, do you have fiber internet out there? An interesting phenomenon we had in the midwest is that rural-ish areas got fiber to the home years faster than most major urban or suburban metros did because the cost to run the fiber was cheap and often the ISPs out there are co-ops
My understanding is that the town had a few rough stretches, but came out strong and resilient on the other side.
Yes, COL is quite reasonable, food costs about 60-75% of what it does in the metropolitan suburb area that I'm coming from. The only drawback to the area is that the hospital closed many years ago, but they are in the final planning stages of a new one. So medical emergency costs are temporarily higher.
And yes, there is fiber internet. I just looked up the company that provides it, and it's registered as a Cooperative with the Secretary of State.
Yes, COL is quite reasonable, food costs about 60-75% of what it does in the metropolitan suburb area that I'm coming from. The only drawback to the area is that the hospital closed many years ago, but they are in the final planning stages of a new one. So medical emergency costs are temporarily higher.
And yes, there is fiber internet. I just looked up the company that provides it, and it's registered as a Cooperative with the Secretary of State.
> I really believe that is the main reason this town is thriving.
Well yeah - Walmart (or any major corporation) is extractive. Profits from your small town will not stay in the small town. But where else will the coffee shop owner invest their profits back into if not their business and community?
Well yeah - Walmart (or any major corporation) is extractive. Profits from your small town will not stay in the small town. But where else will the coffee shop owner invest their profits back into if not their business and community?
The layout is entirely by design to feel like you’re strolling down “Main Street” Americana.
I learned this decades ago when I worked for Walmart setting up stores and training folks. It was explicitly made clear to us this is what the layout was designed to elicit
I learned this decades ago when I worked for Walmart setting up stores and training folks. It was explicitly made clear to us this is what the layout was designed to elicit
I would be surprised if most people under 60 or even 50 know what strolling down “Main Street” means. In my 30+ years, I have never once strolled down a Main Street.
I have always gone to big stores and malls (and now online shopping).
I have always gone to big stores and malls (and now online shopping).
I consider it the fact that Walmart for a long time had a mostly rural and suburban strategy that skews demographics to people 40+. It’s a Sam Walton hold over that I think is being slowly replaced.
What WalMart hates the most is that they can’t get people of affluence who want to save money to shop at one though. When I worked there the complaint out of HQ I heard the most is that Michelle Obama and Oprah would shop at a Target but never step foot in a Walmart despite having identical goods but Walmart has better prices
What WalMart hates the most is that they can’t get people of affluence who want to save money to shop at one though. When I worked there the complaint out of HQ I heard the most is that Michelle Obama and Oprah would shop at a Target but never step foot in a Walmart despite having identical goods but Walmart has better prices
I'm surprised they care. I can't speak for all "people of affluence who want to save money", but personally I feel that everything about the experience is catered towards a person who values small discounts a lot more than their own time. the inventory is barely organized and I have to walk all the way around the store before I even find the right section. it's even harder to find a human employee who might know where to find the thing I'm looking for.
target isn't a whole lot better, but at least they have more staff wandering around to ask for help. I'll pay an extra 20 cents on my megapack of paper towels every time if that gets me out of the store faster.
target isn't a whole lot better, but at least they have more staff wandering around to ask for help. I'll pay an extra 20 cents on my megapack of paper towels every time if that gets me out of the store faster.
it has a negative impact on their brand perception and top line growth. Except when the economy blips into recession their growth seemingly caps at 2-4% a year, sometimes essentially remaining flat.
I always thought the secret weapon to attracting wealthier shoppers is their far too under-capitalized and under-utilized Sam's Club model that is similar to Costco, but not Costco. I think thats what they should have invested in far more to attract the wealthier demographic. Most upper middle class+ people I know shop at Costco varying from often to religiously. Same with Trader Joes, actually.
I always thought Walmart was the "lesser" brand personally, but HQ never seemed to grasp this
I always thought the secret weapon to attracting wealthier shoppers is their far too under-capitalized and under-utilized Sam's Club model that is similar to Costco, but not Costco. I think thats what they should have invested in far more to attract the wealthier demographic. Most upper middle class+ people I know shop at Costco varying from often to religiously. Same with Trader Joes, actually.
I always thought Walmart was the "lesser" brand personally, but HQ never seemed to grasp this
From my experience (S. California) the Sam's club is more expensive. So despite one ironically being next to my Wal-mart I still prefer driving the extra 5 miles to Costco.
slightly cheaper food court (and IMO slightly better tasting food, especially the pizza) is a nice draw as well.
slightly cheaper food court (and IMO slightly better tasting food, especially the pizza) is a nice draw as well.
The harsh lighting and reflective white paint literally hurts my eyes in Walmart. Like there's a low-grade sting and I'm slightly squinting for the duration of my shopping trip. Target doesn't have this problem, and I'm willing to pay a slight premium if it's convenient.
Maybe they can fix that first.
Maybe they can fix that first.
Yes, Target seems to explicitly use warmer lighting and earth tones. Walmart is flourescent light and shades of blue. It's awful.
Wal-Mart, uniquely among large stores I've been in, makes me feel bad. I don't remember this being the case, say, 20 years ago. It seems to have worse over time. I think it's the lighting and design, though I'm not sure exactly what about it. Walking in instantly makes me miserable. Probably doesn't help that shoppers and workers alike all look sad, constantly (but how much of that is because the store itself is doing that to them?)
Also, nobody in them seem to know how to exist in public without constantly being in the way. Wal-Mart has an uncanny ability to feel crowded while not actually being crowded. I don't get it.
Also, nobody in them seem to know how to exist in public without constantly being in the way. Wal-Mart has an uncanny ability to feel crowded while not actually being crowded. I don't get it.
But it is crowded. The aisles are easily 18" narrower than they were 20 years ago. I distinctly remember the last time my local Walmart remodeled and you could see the shadows of the old shelves and aisles on the floor still.
Narrow isles and harsh lighting are another part of the marketing strategy. It’s supposed to make you feel like they’ve cut every corner to bring the lowest price to you, the shopper!
I H-A-T-E going to WalMart. I have to go every once in a while, because that's the only place that I can find one particular item that I use frequently, and that's only if I forget to buy it online where it costs a bit more.
I do my normal shopping at a grocery store where everything is probably 10-15% more expensive. Why? 5 reasons.
1. Paper bags. I hate plastic ones.
2. I'm not forced through the self checkout. Walmart has almost no cashiers any more, and the two that they do have (for all 30 registers) are hidden, except for the fact that there's a huge line of people there, all with overflowing carts.
3. I'm tired of having to wait 20 minutes just to stand in a checkout line. It happened so often at Walmart (even with self-checkouts) that I was fed up with it. The longest I have ever had to wait at the grocery store is 5 minutes, and often there's no wait at all.
4. Carry-out. It's nice for some young kid to have an after-school job helping me load water into my car. It's nice not having to find the carousel to return the shopping cart to. It's nice having a quick conversation with someone. It's standard at my 24-hour grocery store. It's an act of congress and a long wait at WalMart.
5. Walmart treats you as if you're trying to steal everything everywhere. They put cameras up everywhere that ding at you as you pass by. They take pictures of you as you use the self-checkout. They check your receipt when you try to leave. I'm sick of being treated as if I'm a criminal when I haven't done anything wrong. So I refuse to go there.
I can choose to spend $100 at Walmart, or $115 at a grocery store without having to put up with 1-5. I will choose that any day of the week.
I do my normal shopping at a grocery store where everything is probably 10-15% more expensive. Why? 5 reasons.
1. Paper bags. I hate plastic ones.
2. I'm not forced through the self checkout. Walmart has almost no cashiers any more, and the two that they do have (for all 30 registers) are hidden, except for the fact that there's a huge line of people there, all with overflowing carts.
3. I'm tired of having to wait 20 minutes just to stand in a checkout line. It happened so often at Walmart (even with self-checkouts) that I was fed up with it. The longest I have ever had to wait at the grocery store is 5 minutes, and often there's no wait at all.
4. Carry-out. It's nice for some young kid to have an after-school job helping me load water into my car. It's nice not having to find the carousel to return the shopping cart to. It's nice having a quick conversation with someone. It's standard at my 24-hour grocery store. It's an act of congress and a long wait at WalMart.
5. Walmart treats you as if you're trying to steal everything everywhere. They put cameras up everywhere that ding at you as you pass by. They take pictures of you as you use the self-checkout. They check your receipt when you try to leave. I'm sick of being treated as if I'm a criminal when I haven't done anything wrong. So I refuse to go there.
I can choose to spend $100 at Walmart, or $115 at a grocery store without having to put up with 1-5. I will choose that any day of the week.
Speaking of checkouts, there is a chain of mega-sized employee-owned grocery stores in the upper Midwest that has the perfect checkout system. You pull your cart up to the register, and they pull items directly out of the cart to scan/bag them, and put the bags in another cart at the foot of the register. You don't event have to lift a finger until you go to put the bags (paper or plastic) in your car trunk.
The parking lot is another item. Instead of the rows going perpendicular to the front of the store, where you are constantly crossing at the pedestrian entrance, the parking is lengthwise across the store. So you can cruise up and down the aisles without driving by the front of the building. And no matter where you park, you are only 2 - 4 rows back from the building.
The parking lot is another item. Instead of the rows going perpendicular to the front of the store, where you are constantly crossing at the pedestrian entrance, the parking is lengthwise across the store. So you can cruise up and down the aisles without driving by the front of the building. And no matter where you park, you are only 2 - 4 rows back from the building.
> What WalMart hates the most is that they can’t get people of affluence who want to save money to shop at one though.
Inflation is doing the trick[0]. For several quarters, they've reported marked increases in the share of higher-income shoppers, especially for groceries.
[0]: https://www.axios.com/2023/05/18/inflation-walmart-prices-ea...
Inflation is doing the trick[0]. For several quarters, they've reported marked increases in the share of higher-income shoppers, especially for groceries.
[0]: https://www.axios.com/2023/05/18/inflation-walmart-prices-ea...
This happened in 2008 too with the housing downturn. Part of the store boom I participated in was fueled by that growth.
The problem is they can’t manage to keep most of them once the economy bounces back, and growth slows significantly (their top line growth was only 2-4% per year for most of the 2010s and they still aren’t profitable on e-commerce)
Maybe since inflation is a different beast it will capture more consumers like this, we shall see
The problem is they can’t manage to keep most of them once the economy bounces back, and growth slows significantly (their top line growth was only 2-4% per year for most of the 2010s and they still aren’t profitable on e-commerce)
Maybe since inflation is a different beast it will capture more consumers like this, we shall see
We shall see, indeed. I believe that this round of inflation is going to stick around for a while for to geopolitical reasons: decreasing globalization, China no longer exporting deflation to the rest of the world. As someone who has only ever seen sovereign bond yields go down over time, it'll be interesting.
very interesting, I wonder if they picked up on my demographic and kept pestering for reviews and feedback when I let it out regarding my price experience shopping there and noting explicitly the lack of inflation increase I had seen elsewhere at the other stores I frequent. I definitely contributed a data point to these reports referenced above.
"What WalMart hates the most is that they can’t get people of affluence who want to save money to shop at one though"
I guess you can't be everything to everybody...
I guess you can't be everything to everybody...
Maybe don't strew pallets of junk in the middle of aisles if you want to go upmarket?
Target does this too. It’s common in most supermarkets nowadays
they make up for it somewhat with pleasant looking pallets, those big red plastic things, vs raw rough looking wood. I get a sense Target has less downtime with this inventory layover sort of thing. Walmart can have pallets out that people are expected to pick over and shop on and which need to be restocked. Also Target just has more cushioned margins for their aisles where the footprint of a pallet has less impact in your sense of space than Walmarts where a significant percentage of the aisle is occupied by these monstrosities.
yah, it's a much more cluttered and crowded experience. The demographics who shop there too are lower class and bring with them less attuned social dynamics and courtesies and other subtle etiquettes that are desired when out in public. People who are oblivious to blocking things, looking past you while they cross your path and cut you off with a shopping cart, being loud or verbally obnoxious, at times unbathed, etc etc. A certain class of folks would rather bubble themselves from such experiences.
"less attuned social dynamics and courtesies and other subtle etiquettes that are desired when out in public" That's a lovely way of saying it.
Sounds like you don't get out much. I'm 35, grew up in a sterile DC-area bedroom community and even I walked down main streets when I went 10 minutes down the road on shopping trips.
Then again there are a lot of cities/towns on the east coast that predate the car, so there's probably an increased concentration of "main streets".
Then again there are a lot of cities/towns on the east coast that predate the car, so there's probably an increased concentration of "main streets".
I think the key is DC area. Having grown up in a small town, we didn't have a main street anymore, only a Walmart.
> Sounds like you don't get out much
Just completely unnecessary ad hominem. Why?
Just completely unnecessary ad hominem. Why?
I was responding to a guy saying anyone under 50 has probably never walked down a Main St. Which I took as yet more "old man yells at cloud" sentiment. It's not just where I grew up either, the town where I went to college had a literal "Main St" with privately owned shops/bars/etc, and a permanent population of ~35,000. All of the ~20,000 students walked down it at some point because that's where the University book store and most of the popular bars/restaurants were.
The suburb I live in now has a literal "Main St" as well. Maybe it's an east coast thing, but saying he doesn't get out much was more a statement of fact. I can't think of anyone I've ever met who has never experienced a Main St, and the only people I can think of who might possibly meet that criteria are people who live in tiny rural towns that they never leave, aka people who don't get out much.
The suburb I live in now has a literal "Main St" as well. Maybe it's an east coast thing, but saying he doesn't get out much was more a statement of fact. I can't think of anyone I've ever met who has never experienced a Main St, and the only people I can think of who might possibly meet that criteria are people who live in tiny rural towns that they never leave, aka people who don't get out much.
> Which I took as yet more "old man yells at cloud" sentiment.
This is the uncharitable assumption which you didn't have to make. Someone was describing something they observed, you can counter them without making silly snide comments.
This is the uncharitable assumption which you didn't have to make. Someone was describing something they observed, you can counter them without making silly snide comments.
I don't think it's uncharitable at all. Anyone who makes a statement like "most people under 50 have never experienced a Main St" is making assumptions so large, so unexamined and so obviously incorrect that it has to be emotionally driven, especially when it's phrased along the lines of "kids today don't understand X".
If it is a legitimate observation, they must really, literally, not get out much and I would recommend driving to the nearest town with a population north of 10,000 and look around a bit to broaden their horizons. That's the generous interpretation.
If it is a legitimate observation, they must really, literally, not get out much and I would recommend driving to the nearest town with a population north of 10,000 and look around a bit to broaden their horizons. That's the generous interpretation.
I'm 30 and I had to look up "Main street". Those simply don't exist in western suburbs where I grew up (At least, not 90's+ suburb.). Let alone the boonies where there's simply 1 "super"market, one liquor store, and maybe one fast food restaurant.
I understand it, though. There very much was a main street downtown in my college town. It wasn't literally called "main street", however.
I understand it, though. There very much was a main street downtown in my college town. It wasn't literally called "main street", however.
[deleted]
Ancedotal experience from a 35 yo here.
Growing up in Metro Detroit, there were "Main Streets" in most of the Cities/townships and IIRC it's a pretty common term. I'd argue most people under 60 and 50 know what "Main Street" means just to counter.
Growing up in Metro Detroit, there were "Main Streets" in most of the Cities/townships and IIRC it's a pretty common term. I'd argue most people under 60 and 50 know what "Main Street" means just to counter.
I still do it. There are many Americans who still do it daily. There's a certain charm and feel to walking down a commercial street in a small town instead of walking through a fluorescent lit generic corporate branded super store. Online shopping is inevitable. There are products you just don't find in local shops anymore. I think a good example of that is Radio Shack. When I was a kid, that's where you went for you electronics needs as a hobbyist. There were even a few locally owned electronics shops in the area. Now you get that off of Amazon.
You've missed out then! I grew up in a town with a thriving Main St (Davidson, NC) and loved every minute there. The great coffee shop, diner, drug store, bookstore, library, ice cream shop, and gift store all come to mind. Its popularity was an outlier when I was younger, but since then I've actually seen other local towns with formerly dilapidated main streets turn it around (Mooresville for example). Walkability is in huge demand, and these older communities are some of the best options in the region for that.
> I have never once strolled down a Main Street
You know it doesn't have to be named "Main Street" to be a Main Street
You know it doesn't have to be named "Main Street" to be a Main Street
Yes, I meant shopping while walking around an old school downtown with a clothing store next to a grocer next to a shoe store next to a diner next to hardware store etc.
I only ever remember going to Walmart, Home Depot, Costco, Best Buy, malls, Kroger, etc.
I only ever remember going to Walmart, Home Depot, Costco, Best Buy, malls, Kroger, etc.
The Hudson Valley has something analogous to bedroom communities, scenic small towns which have vibrant downtowns with all sorts of little shops for weekenders to stroll around.
Interesting.
I've lived in cities since I've been an adult and every neighborhood I've lived in still has a main street for our small community inside the city. Granted this is only 4 different places, but most cities have many smaller communities inside of them with their own "main streets"
The neighborhood I currently live in, is considered by its residents to be its own little town inside of the city with everything being walkable along the main street.
We even talk about leaving our neighbourhood to go to other places within Toronto.
I've lived in cities since I've been an adult and every neighborhood I've lived in still has a main street for our small community inside the city. Granted this is only 4 different places, but most cities have many smaller communities inside of them with their own "main streets"
The neighborhood I currently live in, is considered by its residents to be its own little town inside of the city with everything being walkable along the main street.
We even talk about leaving our neighbourhood to go to other places within Toronto.
If you name a large city in the US I can probably tell you the name of the main street that is packed with locals
Los Angeles (City)? It's just packed with locals in general (mostly for the worst). There are a few "main streets" if you really think about it, but it's not really a meaningful term in such a huge city.
Maybe it's more of an Eastern US term?
Maybe it's more of an Eastern US term?
Not enough Nail Salons/Hair salons in a Walmart though.
It’s price and the ease the price enables.
Low price demonstratably rules in everything from plane tickets to groceries to basic services to clothing as it enables a life of abundance and mental ease.
A friend loves Walmart as it means he no longer has to maintain his lawnmower. He just throws it away and buys a new one annually at the start of the season. He can still mow his lawn while abandoning the need to maintain mechanical knowledge.
I love Walmart as I no longer need to really consider how many of an item I need. When socks are $5 a pair at some of the more expensive stores, buying a huge pile is pricy. Walmart let’s me buy 40 pairs of socks for like $20 and just not keep track of their wash status or where they are in the house.
Walmart makes it so that everyone can solve their problems with a bit of money.
Small stores can’t replicate any of that due to economies of scale. Sure, their workers might be experts in lawnmowers, but when lawnmowers are so cheap as to be single season items, that expertise no longer has value.
Low price demonstratably rules in everything from plane tickets to groceries to basic services to clothing as it enables a life of abundance and mental ease.
A friend loves Walmart as it means he no longer has to maintain his lawnmower. He just throws it away and buys a new one annually at the start of the season. He can still mow his lawn while abandoning the need to maintain mechanical knowledge.
I love Walmart as I no longer need to really consider how many of an item I need. When socks are $5 a pair at some of the more expensive stores, buying a huge pile is pricy. Walmart let’s me buy 40 pairs of socks for like $20 and just not keep track of their wash status or where they are in the house.
Walmart makes it so that everyone can solve their problems with a bit of money.
Small stores can’t replicate any of that due to economies of scale. Sure, their workers might be experts in lawnmowers, but when lawnmowers are so cheap as to be single season items, that expertise no longer has value.
> A friend loves Walmart as it means he no longer has to maintain his lawnmower. He just throws it away and buys a new one annually at the start of the season. He can still mow his lawn while abandoning the need to maintain mechanical knowledge.
It's hard for me to respect this as a valid choice. Waste and consumption concerns aside, the justification of not knowing (or wanting to know) how to perform simple maintenance is alien to me. Why even own a lawnmower at this point-- just pay someone to mow your grass for you. The milk and honey has flowed so freely for so long that when the tap turns off, people really won't know how to take care of themselves.
It's hard for me to respect this as a valid choice. Waste and consumption concerns aside, the justification of not knowing (or wanting to know) how to perform simple maintenance is alien to me. Why even own a lawnmower at this point-- just pay someone to mow your grass for you. The milk and honey has flowed so freely for so long that when the tap turns off, people really won't know how to take care of themselves.
> Why even own a lawnmower at this point-- just pay someone to mow your grass for you.
The lawnmower is so cheap that it is the same price as two mows.
It is indeed wasteful, but that isn't a problem you deal with directly.
The lawnmower is so cheap that it is the same price as two mows.
It is indeed wasteful, but that isn't a problem you deal with directly.
I’m not sure if you’re knowingly ignoring the OPs point or just ignoring it.
Buying two lawnmowers is vastly more wasteful (to the world, not to your pocket) than buying one and maintaining it.
Buying two lawnmowers is vastly more wasteful (to the world, not to your pocket) than buying one and maintaining it.
That's the point. To the customer the pocket is all that matters.
Reducto Ad absurdum: if you break a bowl, do you spend time learning how to glue back the pieces, take it to a shop expert to repair, or simply go to any store and buy a new bowl for $5-10 (Assuming it's at least a decent porcelain bown)? Option 1 will take a lot of time and have a flimsy result, option 2 may cost $100+ upfront, so would only be used for a truly extravagant bowl or something.
well, our lawnmower is metaphorically $5 here, not 500. I see prices around $200 for cheaper lawnmowers, so paying $200/year isn't that much more expensive than say, paying a neighborhood kid $15 every month to mow the lawn.
Reducto Ad absurdum: if you break a bowl, do you spend time learning how to glue back the pieces, take it to a shop expert to repair, or simply go to any store and buy a new bowl for $5-10 (Assuming it's at least a decent porcelain bown)? Option 1 will take a lot of time and have a flimsy result, option 2 may cost $100+ upfront, so would only be used for a truly extravagant bowl or something.
well, our lawnmower is metaphorically $5 here, not 500. I see prices around $200 for cheaper lawnmowers, so paying $200/year isn't that much more expensive than say, paying a neighborhood kid $15 every month to mow the lawn.
If 200$ is reasonable price point. We can ask what is the normal rate of people who repair lawnmowers? How many hours you can actually buy with it? 2? 4? and then we aren't even at parts. Are they available, what is the lead time?
Labour costs are likely so high now that just replacing something makes lot more sense. And you get certainty that it works.
Also shouldn't there be some sort of warranty? At least for year or two?
Labour costs are likely so high now that just replacing something makes lot more sense. And you get certainty that it works.
Also shouldn't there be some sort of warranty? At least for year or two?
9 months x $15 = 135. Even at double or triple, It's still a better deal and less hassle than having to juggle junk mowers every season just because they can't be bothered to learn simple hygiene/maintenance.
Also, I've done the bowl repair you mention here a few times actually.
Also, I've done the bowl repair you mention here a few times actually.
When I was a kid I ran a lawn service, and I got all my engines out of the trash.
When the mowers are cheap, it's rational. They get the lawnmower out of the shed the first time in spring and it won't start, it would cost a significant amount to get it fixed, and they have to waste your time and wrestle a dirty lawnmower in and out of your car. So they buy a cheap new one and throw the old one away.
Paying someone is still more expensive than doing it yourself.
When the mowers are cheap, it's rational. They get the lawnmower out of the shed the first time in spring and it won't start, it would cost a significant amount to get it fixed, and they have to waste your time and wrestle a dirty lawnmower in and out of your car. So they buy a cheap new one and throw the old one away.
Paying someone is still more expensive than doing it yourself.
> Why even own a lawnmower at this point-- just pay someone to mow your grass for you.
I don’t disagree with you about waste, but I’m assuming you haven’t priced lawn services lately. Even with a small yard and fairly cheap service you’ll be spending enough to buy a (cheap) mower every 4-6 weeks.
I don’t disagree with you about waste, but I’m assuming you haven’t priced lawn services lately. Even with a small yard and fairly cheap service you’ll be spending enough to buy a (cheap) mower every 4-6 weeks.
That is one of the problems with Walmart. It facilitates overconsumption. The world can’t sustain such a lifestyle for everyone. We end up paying for the negative externalities partially by living in a world we have poisoned. Whilst we drink water containing micro plastics we will be able to relish the fact that we were able to buy many more socks than we needed.
Except that we should have more long lasting things and should not add to the garbage pile because of cheapness and laziness :( But money sure trumps environmentalist idealism.
Different topic: As a foreigner, really every visit to a Wallmart left me with a very strange feeling, because almost every employee had a zombie like appearance one or the other way, demotivated, sad or emotionless looking, slurping slowly through the shop.. like employees super abused or completely lost and aimless. Nowhere else, even in cheap fast foods or similar I got that, why?
Different topic: As a foreigner, really every visit to a Wallmart left me with a very strange feeling, because almost every employee had a zombie like appearance one or the other way, demotivated, sad or emotionless looking, slurping slowly through the shop.. like employees super abused or completely lost and aimless. Nowhere else, even in cheap fast foods or similar I got that, why?
> almost every employee had a zombie like appearance one or the other way
For what it's worth, in my area (a midsize Deep South city; the customary environment for Walmart), I don't see this. But it is also a city experiencing some amount of growth with a viable future. Starting pay at my local Walmarts are the same as starting pay at a McDonald's or any other entry-level retail job.
I'm curious, where were the Walmarts you visited? I've been to "sad" Walmarts like that, and in my experience it correlates most strongly with the general sadness of the town -- places ravaged by the opioid epidemic, with few jobs and no hope in the residents' hearts.
For what it's worth, in my area (a midsize Deep South city; the customary environment for Walmart), I don't see this. But it is also a city experiencing some amount of growth with a viable future. Starting pay at my local Walmarts are the same as starting pay at a McDonald's or any other entry-level retail job.
I'm curious, where were the Walmarts you visited? I've been to "sad" Walmarts like that, and in my experience it correlates most strongly with the general sadness of the town -- places ravaged by the opioid epidemic, with few jobs and no hope in the residents' hearts.
> every employee had a zombie like appearance one or the other way, demotivated, sad or emotionless looking, slurping slowly through the shop.. like employees super abused or completely lost and aimless. Nowhere else, even in cheap fast foods or similar I got that, why?
When I worked there, the job felt pointless. It's a neverending pile of meaningless work that you can never make progress on. You're disrespected by customers, paid little, and know you're really just a cog in the machine. I didn't show up for work for a week before I quit. Nobody noticed I was gone and they were as surprised when I quit as I was that I wasn't fired. Every time I clocked in, I was hit with the feeling of purgatory. The useless drag of another day-- all for the benefit of -- ?
When I worked there, the job felt pointless. It's a neverending pile of meaningless work that you can never make progress on. You're disrespected by customers, paid little, and know you're really just a cog in the machine. I didn't show up for work for a week before I quit. Nobody noticed I was gone and they were as surprised when I quit as I was that I wasn't fired. Every time I clocked in, I was hit with the feeling of purgatory. The useless drag of another day-- all for the benefit of -- ?
[deleted]
>But money sure trumps environmentalist idealism.
every time, yup.
>demotivated, sad or emotionless looking, slurping slowly through the shop.. like employees super abused or completely lost and aimless. Nowhere else, even in cheap fast foods or similar I got that, why?
Wal mart tends to attract some of the worst folk, and they aren't only there for 5 minutes to pick up a burger. That plus a dead end minimum wage part time job with zero hopes of progression dont make for happy employees
every time, yup.
>demotivated, sad or emotionless looking, slurping slowly through the shop.. like employees super abused or completely lost and aimless. Nowhere else, even in cheap fast foods or similar I got that, why?
Wal mart tends to attract some of the worst folk, and they aren't only there for 5 minutes to pick up a burger. That plus a dead end minimum wage part time job with zero hopes of progression dont make for happy employees
And certainly there is no price to be paid for this accelerated garbage-production loop!
Sorry but this attitude towards material goods, while quite common in America, is quite depressing.
Simply amazing. And I thought I was wasteful. What happens to the old mowers? Does your friend sell or give away his old mower?
I almost feel like our way of life (artificially cheap) is going to hit a brick wall once gas stops being cheap (peak oil).
I almost feel like our way of life (artificially cheap) is going to hit a brick wall once gas stops being cheap (peak oil).
Peak oil was supposed to happen a decade ago (maybe more?). It ain't happening. Adjusted for inflation, gasoline is as cheap as ever.
> Adjusted for inflation, gasoline is as cheap as ever.
There's the rub. Perhaps our rampant inflation is essentially the result of "real" peak oil, except instead of gas prices steadily increasing, the US economy is taking excessive actions to keep our petrodollar supreme and causing massive inflation.
Especially as challengers to petroleum economy arise: Solar/Battery/Wind/EVs - it's possible the only way to stay solvent is to massively devalue $$.
There's the rub. Perhaps our rampant inflation is essentially the result of "real" peak oil, except instead of gas prices steadily increasing, the US economy is taking excessive actions to keep our petrodollar supreme and causing massive inflation.
Especially as challengers to petroleum economy arise: Solar/Battery/Wind/EVs - it's possible the only way to stay solvent is to massively devalue $$.
also what is the guy doing with his mowers that they only last a year? my dad neglects his mowers pretty badly and it still runs fine 10+ years later. only issue is the dull blade.
My father and now me are in the "badly neglects lawn equipment but somehow they carry on" camp. I'm not sure what it is, but our stuff just works. I have a shed for my equipment but I leave the gas in over the winter, I crank them right up once I need them the next year, I use gas from last year that's been sitting in the can ...
and these are cheap sub $200 machines
and these are cheap sub $200 machines
This is your brain on consumerism.
Tangential: but I’d really like to call out what a life hack, lots of cheap socks are. I got the idea myself long ago, as a kid, from the South Park creators, as they demanded unlimited new socks while making the movie.
Once a year I buy like a 50 pack on Amazon and it’s great. 10/10 would recommend.
Once a year I buy like a 50 pack on Amazon and it’s great. 10/10 would recommend.
My wife chuckles because I darn my socks a few times before throwing them out. I chuck them when they either aren't comfortable, look terrible, or are too damaged to fix.
Like this quote from Dumbledore, when he looks in the mirror that shows your deepest desire:
"What do you see when you look in the mirror?"
"I? I see myself holding a pair of thick, woolen socks."
"One can never have enough socks. Another Christmas has come and gone and I didn't get a single pair. People will insist on giving me books."
"What do you see when you look in the mirror?"
"I? I see myself holding a pair of thick, woolen socks."
"One can never have enough socks. Another Christmas has come and gone and I didn't get a single pair. People will insist on giving me books."
I'd like to call out what a life hack merino wool socks are. Cheap cotton socks smell after a few hours, merino wool socks smell after a few days and last forever. Also if you get a decent pair, they don't itch at all. Amazon sells some cheaper 6 packs for $20 that will for sure change your mind on socks.
Ever wonder why socks are 40 for $20?
Or what happens to all those socks when they’re disposed of?
Also tossing lawnmowers every year seems beyond stupid.
I can’t imagine the cost of replacing a mower every year being cheaper than buying a $300 ryobi that will last you for years to come.
Or what happens to all those socks when they’re disposed of?
Also tossing lawnmowers every year seems beyond stupid.
I can’t imagine the cost of replacing a mower every year being cheaper than buying a $300 ryobi that will last you for years to come.
Is this satire?
Lawn equipment ain't complicated enough to maintain to justify throwing out every season. This is insane consumerism.
Lawn equipment ain't complicated enough to maintain to justify throwing out every season. This is insane consumerism.
Every season seems beyond insane.
However, let's say you make some common mistake like leaving the engine filled with gas during the winter (assuming you're in such a climate). How would you go about getting it fixed? Assume the carb is gummed up -- it's a $10-20 part, plus labor, plus the hassle of finding a small engine repair service to fix it, dropping off, and picking up. It's this vs. going to the Walmart website, clicking a button, and having the lawn mower show up at your house in a day or two.
I always bias towards maintenance and repair but there are tons of people with no knowledge of how to fix something and no desire to learn to. With services costing more and more, buying new is often a more appealing choice, sadly.
However, let's say you make some common mistake like leaving the engine filled with gas during the winter (assuming you're in such a climate). How would you go about getting it fixed? Assume the carb is gummed up -- it's a $10-20 part, plus labor, plus the hassle of finding a small engine repair service to fix it, dropping off, and picking up. It's this vs. going to the Walmart website, clicking a button, and having the lawn mower show up at your house in a day or two.
I always bias towards maintenance and repair but there are tons of people with no knowledge of how to fix something and no desire to learn to. With services costing more and more, buying new is often a more appealing choice, sadly.
Blades need sharpened, gas maybe needs to be drained, are there other fluids that need take care of? Do I need to oil bits, are there bolts that I need to tighten?
I could spend hours learning to do this, and then buying the tools and materials to actually do the maintenance, plus the few hours of effort of actually doing it. Walmart has several mowers listed under $200, I can see why someone would find it not worth the time/effort/money to maintain a mower and just buy a new one. Hopefully, they are setting it out on the curb with a sign that says free for someone that does find that tradeoff worth it.
I could spend hours learning to do this, and then buying the tools and materials to actually do the maintenance, plus the few hours of effort of actually doing it. Walmart has several mowers listed under $200, I can see why someone would find it not worth the time/effort/money to maintain a mower and just buy a new one. Hopefully, they are setting it out on the curb with a sign that says free for someone that does find that tradeoff worth it.
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Lawnmowers nowadays are coming with "engines that do not require oil changes, ever!!!"... Either the lawnmower industry has deciphered the code to create frictionless moving parts and unoxidizable oils, or maybe the cynic in me is right in thinking that they just want you to throw away your perfectly serviceable lawnmower every couple years and buy a new one.
Just got an electric mower. Glad to no longer have to deal with oil changes. Thing packs up tight and can be stored in any orientation. Next will be the electric snow blower.
Most mowers I had growing up were two-stroke engines, that had oil mixed in with the gas. So they never needed an oil change.
Sam Walton points out in his autobiography that big cities are changing all the time, yet somehow people expect that small towns will not.
Small towns should be able to change and adapt, but Walmart being the corporate small town core is another version of enshitification (Walmart being your IRL ecomm platform), with your town's core dictated and governed by Bentonville, Arkansas.
Build strong, local communities and economies instead: https://ilsr.org/ | https://www.epa.gov/smartgrowth/how-small-towns-and-cities-c...
(it will not be extremely economically efficient, but you are trading efficiency for resiliency and local governance and control)
Build strong, local communities and economies instead: https://ilsr.org/ | https://www.epa.gov/smartgrowth/how-small-towns-and-cities-c...
(it will not be extremely economically efficient, but you are trading efficiency for resiliency and local governance and control)
> Build strong, local communities and economies instead
In my view, a necessary part of this is decreasing central control, both at federal and state levels. A good example is the response to Covid; state laws in places like Michigan forced small flower shops to close, leaving them to watch as people bought flowers from the Home Depot garden center instead. And more broadly, the whole pandemic was a gigantic gift to Amazon's bottom line, at the expense of every small store owner.
I agree that as a society we've trended too far in the direction of efficiency at the cost of resiliency. In restoring the balance, we must also shift the locus of control more to the people and the localities they live in.
In my view, a necessary part of this is decreasing central control, both at federal and state levels. A good example is the response to Covid; state laws in places like Michigan forced small flower shops to close, leaving them to watch as people bought flowers from the Home Depot garden center instead. And more broadly, the whole pandemic was a gigantic gift to Amazon's bottom line, at the expense of every small store owner.
I agree that as a society we've trended too far in the direction of efficiency at the cost of resiliency. In restoring the balance, we must also shift the locus of control more to the people and the localities they live in.
Exactly. Just because a guy who's gigantic paycheck depends on hollowing out small towns says small towns should change, doesn't mean that they need to change the way wants them to. After reading (most of) the article it's a little mind blowing. Walmart took the map of a town, made it car-free, and people flocked to it. Towns can take that same model, apply it to down town, and people will love it.
I also love your point that what we're talking about here trades economic efficiency for resilience and local governance. Always pushing for growth is eventually going to hit a wall when either there's no more room to grow and no more good land to grow food on.
I also love your point that what we're talking about here trades economic efficiency for resilience and local governance. Always pushing for growth is eventually going to hit a wall when either there's no more room to grow and no more good land to grow food on.
You might consider it enshittification because it's not as cute as "Main Street" but in rural and impoverished areas Walmart brought affordable necessities -- like much cheaper groceries -- and real quality of life increases for people who otherwise would have simply had to do with much less. The lower prices that Walmart is able to offer actually do matter and have a material impact on people who are not rich.
Eh, those prices largely stayed low long enough to kill off local businesses, and then crept back up again. A Walmart also, on average, kills 3 local jobs for every 2 it creates. There's only so much every day low prices will help you when you're unemployed.
[deleted]
While you're not wrong, you also can't really ignore the knock-on negative effects of a major national chain moving in, undercutting local commerce, and piping a community's money away to a massive conglomerate. Local chains or independent shops are going to be reinvesting a higher percentage of their revenue in the local community.
There's also the fact that Walmart is infamous for its vampiric strategy of stringing workers along on part-time schedules that guarantee poverty-level income to avoid benefit overhead costs, relying on local and national social safety net programs to keep their workers afloat. This sort of workforce and benefits management strategy isn't nearly as prevalent among independent and small-chain businesses.
There's also the fact that Walmart is infamous for its vampiric strategy of stringing workers along on part-time schedules that guarantee poverty-level income to avoid benefit overhead costs, relying on local and national social safety net programs to keep their workers afloat. This sort of workforce and benefits management strategy isn't nearly as prevalent among independent and small-chain businesses.
> “At a time when huge corporations like Walmart and McDonald’s are making billions in profits and giving their CEOs tens of millions of dollars a year, they’re relying on corporate welfare from the federal government by paying their workers starvation wages. That is morally obscene. U.S. taxpayers should not be forced to subsidize some of the largest and most profitable corporations in America. It is time for the owners of Walmart, McDonald’s and other large corporations to get off of welfare and pay their workers a living wage,” said Sanders. “No one in this country should live in poverty. No one should go hungry. No one should be unable to get the medical care they need. It is long past time to increase the federal minimum wage from a starvation wage of $7.25 an hour to $15, and guarantee health care to all Americans as a human right.”
> Bernie Sanders
> "Taxpayers Subsidize Poverty Wages at Walmart, McDonald’s, Other Large Corporations, GAO Finds" - November 18, 2020
> https://www.sanders.senate.gov/press-releases/taxpayers-subs...
GAO = Governmental Accounting Office.
This 'enshittification' isn't some random internet goober decrying it. Enshittification and self-enrichment has been beaten to death on political trails, news, ted talks, social media, etc.
You can believe whatever pie-in-the-sky bullshit you want. The dangers are real. You're covering up the rotten and stinking corpse of reality with scented semi-transparent tissue paper, with all that implied scenario would accomplish.
> Bernie Sanders
> "Taxpayers Subsidize Poverty Wages at Walmart, McDonald’s, Other Large Corporations, GAO Finds" - November 18, 2020
> https://www.sanders.senate.gov/press-releases/taxpayers-subs...
GAO = Governmental Accounting Office.
This 'enshittification' isn't some random internet goober decrying it. Enshittification and self-enrichment has been beaten to death on political trails, news, ted talks, social media, etc.
You can believe whatever pie-in-the-sky bullshit you want. The dangers are real. You're covering up the rotten and stinking corpse of reality with scented semi-transparent tissue paper, with all that implied scenario would accomplish.
Please tone down the rhetoric ("You can believe whatever pie-in-the-sky bullshit you want"). We all come to HN for discourse, not a bar fight.
As for what Bernie Sanders says, I'm sure that GP would agree with him that it is indeed wrong for the taxpayer to subsidize big companies. But consider that there are other ways for the taxpayer to stop this kind of subsidy, besides Sanders' "ponies for all" approach. We will benefit from rationally debating what the best way forward is, instead of shouting at those we disagree with.
As for what Bernie Sanders says, I'm sure that GP would agree with him that it is indeed wrong for the taxpayer to subsidize big companies. But consider that there are other ways for the taxpayer to stop this kind of subsidy, besides Sanders' "ponies for all" approach. We will benefit from rationally debating what the best way forward is, instead of shouting at those we disagree with.
He's completely missing the point, but I suspect he knows that
From my understanding Sam Walton was a pretty quality leader, the company went to shit went he died and his kids took over.
Being good at making money with Walmart has nothing to do with whether Walmart destroys small towns. Number of small businesses destroyed is probably a positive metric for Walmart.
What I mean is that he cared about things beyond making money. Early Walmarts were good places to work for and shop at. They were genuinely good for the communities they came to. And they didn't have enough power yet to dictate insane terms to their suppliers either. Back then, they were way better than the alternatives like Kmart and JCPenny's.
I say this as someone who grew up in rural Minnesota (a town of less than 10k), and when Walmart came to my town it mattered a lot to the whole town.
But this stopped being true by the mid-90s (about ten years after he died).
I say this as someone who grew up in rural Minnesota (a town of less than 10k), and when Walmart came to my town it mattered a lot to the whole town.
But this stopped being true by the mid-90s (about ten years after he died).
that is very interesting, sort of collides with the notion of soft bigotry of low expectations applied to cities. It's almost as if there's this implicit thinking and perception of the small town in terms of imagining them as these static, non-dynamic, unchanging homogenous entities which they are not. Kudos to Sam for challenging how we are to think of the small town and break out of these odd assumptions that have collected and are obviously out of date.
It's like anything with life, cities are comprised of people, people don't just stand still, being contemporaries in any generation you must necessarily survive and do what it takes to progress. There is no formula in any generation that you turn the crank and things just work, life takes work, and its non-formulaic and full of surprises.
It's like anything with life, cities are comprised of people, people don't just stand still, being contemporaries in any generation you must necessarily survive and do what it takes to progress. There is no formula in any generation that you turn the crank and things just work, life takes work, and its non-formulaic and full of surprises.
Here’s a podcast that talks about how Dollorama (and Walmart) is changing city design.
https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-strong-towns-podca...
https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-strong-towns-podca...
I think the problem with this thesis is that Walmart can combine the downtowns of many small towns into one Walmart in between them. It's actually only in the cities where you have enough concentration of wealth to kept niche departments alive.
In the cities the only reason why the big-box model works is exactly because it inverts the urban paradigm with a suburban one. Walmart's model would never work in an urban core exactly because the costs of property (and taxes) to build such on inefficient marketplace would be way too high, and could never compete with the cheap, edge-of-town model that they have built.
The irony, of course, is that much of the value of the suburban model is exactly in the form of subsidy capture. So while folks are happy to get discounts at Walmart, they will likely have to pay the difference 30 years later in taxes on an inefficient suburban wastewater system that must be developed to support this type of infrastructure.
Urbanism is more efficient, thus it should be cheaper, but it's the second, and third order effects that will eventually cause the rustbelt-ification of much of the United States. At least this is the thesis of books like Strong Towns that focus on the acceleration deterioration of finances and bankruptcies in many american municipalities.
In the cities the only reason why the big-box model works is exactly because it inverts the urban paradigm with a suburban one. Walmart's model would never work in an urban core exactly because the costs of property (and taxes) to build such on inefficient marketplace would be way too high, and could never compete with the cheap, edge-of-town model that they have built.
The irony, of course, is that much of the value of the suburban model is exactly in the form of subsidy capture. So while folks are happy to get discounts at Walmart, they will likely have to pay the difference 30 years later in taxes on an inefficient suburban wastewater system that must be developed to support this type of infrastructure.
Urbanism is more efficient, thus it should be cheaper, but it's the second, and third order effects that will eventually cause the rustbelt-ification of much of the United States. At least this is the thesis of books like Strong Towns that focus on the acceleration deterioration of finances and bankruptcies in many american municipalities.
>"Walmart didn’t just compete with the small town. Maybe it didn’t exactly compete with it at all, per se. Rather, it replicated it. And, in stripping the frills and ornamentation of the indoor mall, it managed to replicate it quickly, cheaply and at scale."
The author's focus seems to be more on Walmart's walkability indicating a desire of the public for walkable areas, but I wonder how much of the difference between Walmart and Malls is due to decreased costs versus the monolithic bargaining power of Walmart. As the author points out, malls were originally modeled by Victor Gruen off of shopping areas like Ferstel Passage in Vienna, with the intent to have the mall be a part of an overall urban space with parks and apartments nearby, but the urbanism never came. Malls became versions of these "shopping arcades" replicated quickly, cheaply and at scale.
Instead of being one step down the ladder of cost, and closer to a small town layout, the greater distinction between a mall and Walmart seems to be customers and suppliers only having one potential avenue to go through with Walmart.
The author's focus seems to be more on Walmart's walkability indicating a desire of the public for walkable areas, but I wonder how much of the difference between Walmart and Malls is due to decreased costs versus the monolithic bargaining power of Walmart. As the author points out, malls were originally modeled by Victor Gruen off of shopping areas like Ferstel Passage in Vienna, with the intent to have the mall be a part of an overall urban space with parks and apartments nearby, but the urbanism never came. Malls became versions of these "shopping arcades" replicated quickly, cheaply and at scale.
Instead of being one step down the ladder of cost, and closer to a small town layout, the greater distinction between a mall and Walmart seems to be customers and suppliers only having one potential avenue to go through with Walmart.
Small towns are a legacy from 100 years ago when 10 million people worked on farms. Mechanization has cut that number to 2 million while dramatically increasing productivity. It's natural that the quantity and size of small towns would fade.
> not its car orientation but its (indoor) car-free urbanism
Which is why suburban Americans spend all their time at the shopping mall . . .
/s
Which is why suburban Americans spend all their time at the shopping mall . . .
/s
What's the difference? The point is that when the Walmart closes, the small town becomes a hellhole.
That's because the Walmart opened.
What's because the Walmart opened? If you're saying that Walmart's crush local commerce, then close when it's in their business interest to do so (they'll just have to drive to the next Walmart anyway), then that is also what I was saying.
Ok, yes, we're saying the same thing.
Author is delusional. A bunch of small stores close is nowhere near similar. I just want to go to one shop, get the stuff, and leave, not to go to 8 shops, pay 8 times, pack groceries 8 times and overall walk more
edit: that is not to say opening big supermarkets is great, just that once they are there that's why people skip local stores and go to the big supermarket
edit: that is not to say opening big supermarkets is great, just that once they are there that's why people skip local stores and go to the big supermarket
Would you really be going to 8 shops every time though? Realistically I would go to a grocery store or supermarket and maybe one other store (like clothes or sports supplies, maybe a butcher or something if the town has that and I want something really special that week)
I guess what Americans are missing from how smaller towns work in other countries is that they tend to be more dense, with more mixed zoning. Not as overfilled with way too big parking lots, way too wide “stroads”, and endless suburban sprawl. So the trip to town is shorter/faster, you go into town more often, for more different kinds of activities, and so you don’t have to buy everything all at once.
Take a look at the Strong Town initiative and the YouTube channel “not just bikes”.
Being in town - to me - is a part of living life. It’s where you’d have a third place, where you’d do various activities, meet people and discover new things. If you’ve felt the need to optimise your life to maximise your time at work and in your house.. that feels really sad to me.
I guess what Americans are missing from how smaller towns work in other countries is that they tend to be more dense, with more mixed zoning. Not as overfilled with way too big parking lots, way too wide “stroads”, and endless suburban sprawl. So the trip to town is shorter/faster, you go into town more often, for more different kinds of activities, and so you don’t have to buy everything all at once.
Take a look at the Strong Town initiative and the YouTube channel “not just bikes”.
Being in town - to me - is a part of living life. It’s where you’d have a third place, where you’d do various activities, meet people and discover new things. If you’ve felt the need to optimise your life to maximise your time at work and in your house.. that feels really sad to me.
> I guess what Americans are missing from how smaller towns work in other countries is that they tend to be more dense, with more mixed zoning. Not as overfilled with way too big parking lots, way too wide “stroads”, and endless suburban sprawl. So the trip to town is shorter/faster, you go into town more often, for more different kinds of activities, and so you don’t have to buy everything all at once.
Well I'm not american and I lived in village and in small town. If I have supermarket in "range" I will go to supermarket, choice is bigger and prices are lower.
Sure, if I have store nearby and want to get an icecream or something, or forgot to buy something on weekly shopping trip I'd buy it there.
> Being in town - to me - is a part of living life. It’s where you’d have a third place, where you’d do various activities, meet people and discover new things.
...when going on grocery shopping ? And for some reason you're prevented from speaking to people in supermarket ?
> If you’ve felt the need to optimise your life to maximise your time at work and in your house.. that feels really sad to me.
I dunno from which arse you've got that conclusion. Do you have nothing more interesting to do in your life than going around shopping ?
Groceries are chore not a fucking adventure, regardless of shop size. And saving money means I can spend it on things I actually enjoy and places I actually want to go to.
Well I'm not american and I lived in village and in small town. If I have supermarket in "range" I will go to supermarket, choice is bigger and prices are lower.
Sure, if I have store nearby and want to get an icecream or something, or forgot to buy something on weekly shopping trip I'd buy it there.
> Being in town - to me - is a part of living life. It’s where you’d have a third place, where you’d do various activities, meet people and discover new things.
...when going on grocery shopping ? And for some reason you're prevented from speaking to people in supermarket ?
> If you’ve felt the need to optimise your life to maximise your time at work and in your house.. that feels really sad to me.
I dunno from which arse you've got that conclusion. Do you have nothing more interesting to do in your life than going around shopping ?
Groceries are chore not a fucking adventure, regardless of shop size. And saving money means I can spend it on things I actually enjoy and places I actually want to go to.
>I guess what Americans are missing from how smaller towns work in other countries is that they tend to be more dense, with more mixed zoning.
Probably, I live in a California Suburb. There really is no such thing as "walkable" here in the same way some older eastern US cities and other countries have them.
>Being in town - to me - is a part of living life. It’s where you’d have a third place, where you’d do various activities, meet people and discover new things.
Yeah, that doesn't exist here. We don't really have a "community" in my town. Or perhaps I'm too old and too young for that part of community. No kids to bring to activities but way too old to simply show up for "community activities".
>If you’ve felt the need to optimise your life to maximise your time at work and in your house.. that feels really sad to me.
well the cool thing about land in the US is that it's also huge. I'm in a 1600 ft house, so if you have friends it's great for arranging get togethers and house parties.
Probably, I live in a California Suburb. There really is no such thing as "walkable" here in the same way some older eastern US cities and other countries have them.
>Being in town - to me - is a part of living life. It’s where you’d have a third place, where you’d do various activities, meet people and discover new things.
Yeah, that doesn't exist here. We don't really have a "community" in my town. Or perhaps I'm too old and too young for that part of community. No kids to bring to activities but way too old to simply show up for "community activities".
>If you’ve felt the need to optimise your life to maximise your time at work and in your house.. that feels really sad to me.
well the cool thing about land in the US is that it's also huge. I'm in a 1600 ft house, so if you have friends it's great for arranging get togethers and house parties.
The quaint downtown stores were also probably open from 9-5, maybe 9-12 on Saturday, closed Sunday. That was fine in the 1950s when housewives didn't work and could go shopping during the day. Today, nobody's going to want to take time off work to go buy bread, eggs, and socks. They want to go to Walmart on Sunday afternoon, or on their way home after work.
Part of me hates Walmart and part of me loves it. I love that I can go to one place and get 80% of whatever I'm looking for. But I also like the specialty stores my town has. N of one but since Walmart moved in ~20y ago I haven't noticed much changing with the makeup of small businesses. Since Walmart moved in there have been more of the other big box stores, though.
Yeah. The 8 stores are far better. There's competition. There's variety. Employees can move around. I can get to know the shop owners. I can take a wonderful stroll.
Instead. You get to enjoy one corporation, that does anything it wants, pays horribly, employees have no choice, you have no choice in what garbage you buy. And your downtown now consists of 8 banks.
Yup. You're living the dream!
Instead. You get to enjoy one corporation, that does anything it wants, pays horribly, employees have no choice, you have no choice in what garbage you buy. And your downtown now consists of 8 banks.
Yup. You're living the dream!
Fundamentally, consumers and producers are at odds with each other in certain ways. For instance, it's best for customers if every shop was open 24x7, but absolutely horrible for the employees needed to make that happen.
Walmart is the extreme end of satisfying consumers above all else. Customers get a single, climate-controlled location to take care of nearly all their shopping, with good prices; but it comes at the expense of the employees, local community, and factory workers. Unfortunately, most customers don't know or care about those downsides because the experience is catered so heavily for them, and it's hard to get people to sacrifice material comfort for benefits that appear so abstract.
Walmart is the extreme end of satisfying consumers above all else. Customers get a single, climate-controlled location to take care of nearly all their shopping, with good prices; but it comes at the expense of the employees, local community, and factory workers. Unfortunately, most customers don't know or care about those downsides because the experience is catered so heavily for them, and it's hard to get people to sacrifice material comfort for benefits that appear so abstract.
And from a typically American perspective one doesn’t have to walk. They’ll even provide motorized carts to use when you are buying gallons of cola.
If you're somewhere like Irvine then downtown can be owned by a single corporation in full control of everything, with a superficial veneer of choice and competition.
> There's competition. There's variety.
That does not follow. Small stores carry the same shit as big chain stores. Because of their smaller scale and more limited purchasing power those items are more expensive than a chain and they can only afford to carry high throughput items. The only way small stores can deal with long tail items is if they're super specialty and neat a large enough metro area to have enough sales to survive.
I'm not saying small stores are bad but there's a decided small store tax. Without economies of scale they have a very hard time competing against chains. They have an even harder time competing against online sales.
That does not follow. Small stores carry the same shit as big chain stores. Because of their smaller scale and more limited purchasing power those items are more expensive than a chain and they can only afford to carry high throughput items. The only way small stores can deal with long tail items is if they're super specialty and neat a large enough metro area to have enough sales to survive.
I'm not saying small stores are bad but there's a decided small store tax. Without economies of scale they have a very hard time competing against chains. They have an even harder time competing against online sales.
> Small stores carry the same shit as big chain stores.
Not always. Go to a dedicated board game store and you'll see such a wider variety than the branded Monopoly sets on sale at big box stores. Plus they usually have an area dedicated to actually playing games, something you'll never find at a chain. This community charm is paid for by the small store tax, but the benefits far outweigh the cost.
Not always. Go to a dedicated board game store and you'll see such a wider variety than the branded Monopoly sets on sale at big box stores. Plus they usually have an area dedicated to actually playing games, something you'll never find at a chain. This community charm is paid for by the small store tax, but the benefits far outweigh the cost.
> Go to a dedicated board game store and you'll see such a wider variety than the branded Monopoly sets on sale at big box stores.
Stores like Target carry far more board games than just branded copies of Monopoly. Shit they sell Cards Against Humanity at Target. Barnes & Noble carries and even wider selection of board games and pen and paper role playing games. So big chains are definitely not limited to Monopoly.
While small game stores can carry a wider selection than big chains, most make their nut selling the bigger brand games or toys. There might be Black Swan stores able to specialize in Ticket to Ride or Carcasone expansions but that's not the common case.
I know the owners of quite a few small game stores. They are to a store struggling to keep the lights on because their costs are butting right up against their revenue. Charm is great and all but it doesn't pay the bills.
Again I'm not arguing against small shops but there's not much they offer above and beyond what can be found in big chains or online. The things they can offer, like a game play space, aren't easy or even possible to monetize.
Stores like Target carry far more board games than just branded copies of Monopoly. Shit they sell Cards Against Humanity at Target. Barnes & Noble carries and even wider selection of board games and pen and paper role playing games. So big chains are definitely not limited to Monopoly.
While small game stores can carry a wider selection than big chains, most make their nut selling the bigger brand games or toys. There might be Black Swan stores able to specialize in Ticket to Ride or Carcasone expansions but that's not the common case.
I know the owners of quite a few small game stores. They are to a store struggling to keep the lights on because their costs are butting right up against their revenue. Charm is great and all but it doesn't pay the bills.
Again I'm not arguing against small shops but there's not much they offer above and beyond what can be found in big chains or online. The things they can offer, like a game play space, aren't easy or even possible to monetize.
And those stores have a very hard time competing with online sales. Not only is their stock much, much more limited they are often significantly more expensive because the stores have to mark them up. There is so much variety in board games these days those stores have no hope of competing outside of Magic The Gathering events. I suspect those are moving more toward online play as well because honestly those events aren’t very pleasant to attend in person. We’ve lost roughly half of our board game stores in a city of around 120k people. The only ones that are left are 90% TCG stock with a small selection of modern board games. Honestly the stock at Target and Barnes and Nobel especially are just as good these days.
Not to mention that the product you get from dedicated merchants will invariably be better. The worst bakery in my city is leagues better than the best bread available at Wal Mart
> The worst bakery in my city is leagues better than the best bread available at Wal Mart
You're lucky to have a dedicated bakery that actually makes bread, or maybe you just live in a big city? There's probably twenty bakeries in my midsize city, but they all bake cakes, muffins, confectioneries, and whatnot. None of them actually bake bread.
Walmart bread is truly awful, with the only thing going for it being that it's cheap and consistent. My preferred choice in my area is the sourdough bread from Aldi, which at least only has the ingredients that bread should have, with no sugar or soybean oil or other junk.
You're lucky to have a dedicated bakery that actually makes bread, or maybe you just live in a big city? There's probably twenty bakeries in my midsize city, but they all bake cakes, muffins, confectioneries, and whatnot. None of them actually bake bread.
Walmart bread is truly awful, with the only thing going for it being that it's cheap and consistent. My preferred choice in my area is the sourdough bread from Aldi, which at least only has the ingredients that bread should have, with no sugar or soybean oil or other junk.
Not to mention, all profits go directly out of town.
Walmart was the competition that lowered prices. Those 8 stores may have had more variety, but not lower prices.
Recently I needed to replace my car's battery (size 24F; I opted to upgrade to an AGM battery). In my town of 45,000 (medium-small?) there is one Walmart superstore (sans auto shop), a bunch of chain auto parts stores, and some non-chain stores. Shopping online, I determine:
Yes, Walmart is evil./s
Walmart: Everstart $180, 4 year "free replacement" warranty.
Napa: house brand $250, Odyssey $371 (both 3 yr warranty)
OReilly: house brand $250, Optima $290 (both 3 yr warranty)
AutoZone: house brand $250, Optima $290 (both 3 yr warranty)
Yes, Walmart is evil./s
I think the issue is more about the systematic destroying of the small town.
They open multiple Walmart's, the small town stores go out of business, then they can close some percentage of the Walmart's to consolidate into a few stores in central locations, now all of the small town people have to drive farther to get anything at all. And the small town dies.
They open multiple Walmart's, the small town stores go out of business, then they can close some percentage of the Walmart's to consolidate into a few stores in central locations, now all of the small town people have to drive farther to get anything at all. And the small town dies.
Aye, I lived in Ithaca, NY for a while, and they had a local law that the only businesses within the town center could not be franchise stores, and had to be independently owned. Chain stores could open, but had to do so down the highway about ~2 miles away.
It is _incredible_ the difference it makes on town culture, and _how much better it was_
It is _incredible_ the difference it makes on town culture, and _how much better it was_
Ithaca is a special case as it's essentially the main town outside of Cornell University.
Not all small towns have a major research university or other dependable benefactor around - most of the small town representatives can easily be bought/bribed by a major chain.
Not all small towns have a major research university or other dependable benefactor around - most of the small town representatives can easily be bought/bribed by a major chain.
Ithaca being a college town definitely brings more money into the town. That definitely adds to the vibrancy. But I think my statement still stands independent of that fact :)
Most town centers did not have chains open in them, but the stores in them still died because people preferred shopping at big box stores 2 miles away.
A small college town with a reputation of rich kids going to it is probably going to have an outlier amount of single people with extra money to throw around little shops. If they have families and start budgeting, they will be off to Costco and Walmart and Target to save money like the bulk of the US.
A small college town with a reputation of rich kids going to it is probably going to have an outlier amount of single people with extra money to throw around little shops. If they have families and start budgeting, they will be off to Costco and Walmart and Target to save money like the bulk of the US.
This is an understandable sentiment, but I do not think it applies in this case. In the case of Ithaca, most single young people live closer to the colleges, and drive or bus to the chain stores.
The actual town, I think, survives on the individual shop mentality because the physical layout of the town. The Ithaca town square is physically designed to be the physcial, social and cultural center of the town, which allows the shops there an advantage of being a center of the community, completely surrounded on all sides by walkable residential living. This gives them a competitive advantage, that lets them compete with the bigger box stores which require taking a bus or car a few minutes downtown to arrive at.
The actual town, I think, survives on the individual shop mentality because the physical layout of the town. The Ithaca town square is physically designed to be the physcial, social and cultural center of the town, which allows the shops there an advantage of being a center of the community, completely surrounded on all sides by walkable residential living. This gives them a competitive advantage, that lets them compete with the bigger box stores which require taking a bus or car a few minutes downtown to arrive at.
Downtown Ithaca most likely would have been just as vibrant without that law. It's a town with a higher median household income than the US as a whole, plus two colleges, both of which cost >$50k a year to attend. The students, especially of Cornell, are a great and continuing source of relatively price-insensitive consumers.
Chapel Hill, NC has a Target smack dab in the middle of downtown, and everyone would agree that it's an idyllic college town with a wonderful culture.
Chapel Hill, NC has a Target smack dab in the middle of downtown, and everyone would agree that it's an idyllic college town with a wonderful culture.
i respectfully disagree. the "wonderful culture" chapel hill is known for is a memory from the 80s and 90s. the target store that opened on franklin street is maybe the most blatant sign of the shitty generic direction the town has been going in. it's a nice memory though. here's to the squirrel nut zippers.
Banking and financing is a big part of it too. Good luck getting Chase to give you a loan to start Monky General. I believe that’s a big part of why you see so many franchise chains. The loan officer for an out of town bank can probably find a hundred similar Subways or whatever and have a good idea of what the financials will look like. On the other hand he has no clue how well or poorly a locally owned business will do so he wants no part of it.
There's nothing great about small towns. All of this is waxing of people who don't live in small towns that think it is oh so nice to be able to go to a cute little store on vacation at 11:30am to get a muffin on Saturday. Never mind that the store itself is closed Monday to Friday.
The DMV experience in a small town versus a big city is night and day in the small town’s favor. That’s true for pretty much all government services from the Post Office down to the County office.
The main benefit of small towns is that social capital matters and reputation matters. Of course those are disadvantages to misbehavers.
The main benefit of small towns is that social capital matters and reputation matters. Of course those are disadvantages to misbehavers.
> social capital matters and reputation matters. Of course those are disadvantages to misbehavers.
This is something that many young adults have forgotten, because it's increasingly more trendy to move around a lot in your 20s while developing your career. Nobody cares in a big city if you're an asshole, because there's a million other people to associate with and most likely the asshole and everyone around them aren't going to still be there in five years.
The downside of the small town social setting is that it can be cliquey.
This is something that many young adults have forgotten, because it's increasingly more trendy to move around a lot in your 20s while developing your career. Nobody cares in a big city if you're an asshole, because there's a million other people to associate with and most likely the asshole and everyone around them aren't going to still be there in five years.
The downside of the small town social setting is that it can be cliquey.
What?! This runs completely counter to my experience living in a small town. A town small enough that the post office doesn’t do to door delivery, you’ve got to go pick it up and the closest DMV is an hour away in the city. Small towns don’t generally have services like that at all.
Of course, everyone's definition of a small town, and the kinds of small towns that they've experienced, are going to differ. I'm not too far (just a county over) from a quaint little town with under a thousand people; the post office there delivers to homes, and the nearest DMV is a 15-minute drive away, in a "city" of almost 15k.
Come to think of it, in my own county, which is not highly urban by any stretch of the imagination, you'd be maximum a half-hour drive away from the nearest DMV starting from any main road. Obviously, that doesn't hold if it takes you 15 minutes to get down your own driveway ;-)
I could easily see some of the much more remote Western small towns being further away from anything.
Come to think of it, in my own county, which is not highly urban by any stretch of the imagination, you'd be maximum a half-hour drive away from the nearest DMV starting from any main road. Obviously, that doesn't hold if it takes you 15 minutes to get down your own driveway ;-)
I could easily see some of the much more remote Western small towns being further away from anything.
I live in a small town. It's great! There's a Walmart in the next town over.
Grew up in a small town, couldn’t disagree more. But what you’re describing is a vacation town, many small towns have become one because of the proliferation of second homes: there aren’t enough people around in the week for stores to justify staying open.
But not all towns are like that.
But not all towns are like that.
Right but the issue is that people want to go there, if nobody went there it would not be a problem. There is th emoney aspect of course, but supermarket (of any type really) is convenience vs having to go to a bunch of smaller stores.
people often give this "just so" explanation, but it doesn't quite add up to me. if it's really so inconvenient to go to the consolidated Walmart location a few towns over, why don't you see shops start to reopen on main street? I suspect the root cause has more to do with cars than a particular megastore.
The needed capital to re-start. They have lost the critical mass.
For many small towns, these stores were started many decades ago.
I guess technically, if a store can't be re-started today is kind of like also saying, if the small town can't re-start itself, then that points to question, why would a small town need to exist at all today.
Think the end of this line of reasoning is that small towns have no reason to exist, so let them go?
I guess technically, if a store can't be re-started today is kind of like also saying, if the small town can't re-start itself, then that points to question, why would a small town need to exist at all today.
Think the end of this line of reasoning is that small towns have no reason to exist, so let them go?
> Think the end of this line of reasoning is that small towns have no reason to exist, so let them go?
Correct.
Correct.
> overall walk more
Walking more is better for your health. Or are you saying you walk too much already?
Walking more is better for your health. Or are you saying you walk too much already?
I'd rather spend time saved on bicycle, but I wasn't talking about myself but people that already spend 1-2h in commute and have kids so spending extra time on walking around shopping is probably the thing they want to do the least, hence they go to markets rather than local stores.
Deal with 8 different potential return policies. Have 8 different conversations. Deal with whether all 8 take Amex or not.
Let different people shop at different stores depending on their preference for return policies or credit cards. Heh, let one store try to differentiate itself by accepting crypto payments. Or sell only products produced within 100 miles of the store. Or only employee people shorter than two meters.
Just because there are 8 stores doesn't mean that everyone has to use all 8 of them. It does mean that anyone could use any of them. Sounds like a win to me.
Just because there are 8 stores doesn't mean that everyone has to use all 8 of them. It does mean that anyone could use any of them. Sounds like a win to me.
>Let different people shop at different stores depending on their preference for return policies or credit cards.
to be fair, the people did choose. I know it's out of vogue to blame the general populace for the actions of coporations, but at the end of the day corps can do this because it works. Every single time.
Not sure if anything can be done, but I think it's also worth considering WHY people don't consider much past their immediate convenience when shopping.
to be fair, the people did choose. I know it's out of vogue to blame the general populace for the actions of coporations, but at the end of the day corps can do this because it works. Every single time.
Not sure if anything can be done, but I think it's also worth considering WHY people don't consider much past their immediate convenience when shopping.
I should point out that the presence of Walmart does not preclude the existence of seven other local stores. Walmart didn't drive all the moms and pops out of town with a shotgun. They competed on price, return policy, credit card choice, quality, and everything else. If the store that only employed people shorter than two meters left town, it was probably because that wasn't a priority to consumers in that town.
In the end, consumers get to choose to support Walmart exclusively or to support a variety of businesses. Walmart doesn't get to make that choice. If you are unhappy with the outcome, is it right to blame Walmart?
In the end, consumers get to choose to support Walmart exclusively or to support a variety of businesses. Walmart doesn't get to make that choice. If you are unhappy with the outcome, is it right to blame Walmart?
So you are advocating for large monolithic monopolies? Reduce the complexity by reducing choice?
Wasn't this exact observation made with big book stores and libraries, at one point?
This is wrong on so many levels, are we really talking about urbanism inside of a walmart?
You don't understand. Both the departments in Walmart and buildings in a town are roughly oblong when viewed from above, so they're actually the same. Also, aisles meant to convey you between those departments are like roads conveying you between buildings. What more evidence do you need? /s
right so if the city wants to plant trees between the aisles they can do so, right? lol
Walmart isn't good for small towns no matter how you look at it because they turn entire small town economies into a line item on a gigantic global multi national's ledger. And once done, there is no going back.
They build a new store and then sell at a loss to bankrupt the competition. They can do this because they have billions of dollars in reserve and are subsidized by other stores. How can local businesses compete? Once they all go out of business and there are no choices left Walmart is free to raise prices and recoup their losses and more.
Then there are the jobs. Low wage, dead end. They create the new working poor where you can't survive even with a job so you go on government assistance as well. Subsidized serfdom.
And to top it all off, if they aren't profitable, they won't hesitate to close up shop and leave a smoking crater in the economy of that same small town that is near impossible to recover from. There are no more small business and it's near impossible to start them again because local employees have been subsisting on starvation wages.
Sure, if you ignore all the horrible realities of the Walmart lifecycle, it sure is nice that they provide a convenient way to buy lots of cheap garbage!