We have two separate salt-taste systems(nautil.us)
nautil.us
We have two separate salt-taste systems
https://nautil.us/salt-taste-is-surprisingly-mysterious-382855/
60 comments
Is the blood pressure increase (with increase in sodium intake) temporary, which implies that the body gets used to the increased sodium and blood pressure drops back to some average/normal level after days or weeks of the new intakes?
If yes, why is it that a very common advice from doctors and all kinds of “health information sites” is to cut salt and sodium to manage or reduce high blood pressure? Is the sensitivity to sodium not easy to detect or is it actually more prevalent in the population?
If yes, why is it that a very common advice from doctors and all kinds of “health information sites” is to cut salt and sodium to manage or reduce high blood pressure? Is the sensitivity to sodium not easy to detect or is it actually more prevalent in the population?
It you eat a ton of salt, it’s likely that the source is food that isn’t healthy for you to begin with. It’s near impossible for you to overeat on salty broccoli, but most adults could easily eat an entire bag of potato chips because processed food has much less fiber and protein which are the main drivers for feeling full.
Fermented/pickled foods can be quite salty (to control bad bacterial growth) but still healthy - but usually eaten in smaller doses as condiments
> It you eat a ton of salt, it’s likely that the source is food that isn’t healthy for you to begin with.
While generally true, I don’t think this holds good everywhere. I recall watching some episodes of “Salt Fat Acid Heat” where the amount of salt used seemed to be quite high for day-to-day cooking (even leaving aside the salt that gets drained out with water).
While generally true, I don’t think this holds good everywhere. I recall watching some episodes of “Salt Fat Acid Heat” where the amount of salt used seemed to be quite high for day-to-day cooking (even leaving aside the salt that gets drained out with water).
If I do a lot of exercise on a hot day, I can come back to the house and eat a can of anchovies and still want more salt. I wish I could uh, know how healthy this is
> But the real number is actually six, because we have two separate salt-taste systems. One of them detects the attractive, relatively low levels of salt that make potato chips taste delicious. The other one registers high levels of salt—enough to make overly salted food offensive and deter overconsumption.
I can imagine a future scenario where, in the interests of public health, someone figures out how to transliterate the 'too much salt' genes to 'too much sugar' genes.
Of the various ways that I could see human augmentation play out for the better rather than the worse, I'd rank that right behind tetrachromacy and hypoxia genes (particularly for Martians and Lunatics)
I can imagine a future scenario where, in the interests of public health, someone figures out how to transliterate the 'too much salt' genes to 'too much sugar' genes.
Of the various ways that I could see human augmentation play out for the better rather than the worse, I'd rank that right behind tetrachromacy and hypoxia genes (particularly for Martians and Lunatics)
> I can imagine a future scenario where, in the interests of public health, someone figures out how to transliterate the 'too much salt' genes to 'too much sugar' genes.
Doing it for the masses “for their own good” is quite dystopian. But doing it for yourself is easy and no gene therapy is required. Just cut out sweet foods and after not too long normal foods like bread will taste sweet, and sweetened foods will taste unnaturally toxic.
Doing it for the masses “for their own good” is quite dystopian. But doing it for yourself is easy and no gene therapy is required. Just cut out sweet foods and after not too long normal foods like bread will taste sweet, and sweetened foods will taste unnaturally toxic.
"simple" and "easy" are very much not the same thing.
I've done it before, it's not as hard as you'd think even living in the USA. Just go cold turkey on sugar and especially soda for a couple of weeks
It was easy to uncondition myself again accidentally though, haha
It was easy to uncondition myself again accidentally though, haha
Also making different choices is not the same thing as what the OP suggested.
> Just cut out sweet foods and after not too long normal foods like bread will taste sweet
I don't really eat (or drink) that much sweet stuff at all, but I assume this is not-great industrial-scale bread you're talking about - with sugar added, not just a little salt, as a preservative; or for a shiny glazing.
There's no sugar in the regular bread I bake every few days/week, and unsurprisingly it doesn't taste sweet.
I really don't think any less sugar in my diet would change that (I'm not 'cutting' it, I just don't at all often have pudding, never sugar in my coffee, etc. I'd have to drop chutneys, fruit, wine to have much less).
I don't really eat (or drink) that much sweet stuff at all, but I assume this is not-great industrial-scale bread you're talking about - with sugar added, not just a little salt, as a preservative; or for a shiny glazing.
There's no sugar in the regular bread I bake every few days/week, and unsurprisingly it doesn't taste sweet.
I really don't think any less sugar in my diet would change that (I'm not 'cutting' it, I just don't at all often have pudding, never sugar in my coffee, etc. I'd have to drop chutneys, fruit, wine to have much less).
Don’t eat so fast and let the enzymes work. As you chew saliva breaks down the starch into individual sugars which you should then perceive as sweet.
https://www.thenakedscientists.com/get-naked/experiments/whi...
Cut out enough sugar from your diet as you can start to notice the sweetness without exaggerated mastication.
https://www.thenakedscientists.com/get-naked/experiments/whi...
Cut out enough sugar from your diet as you can start to notice the sweetness without exaggerated mastication.
Leads with a photo of 'not-great industrial-scale bread', and even explicitly calls for 'slice of cheap bread' as an ingredient... it's not doing much to convince me that the described effect is due to starches converting that quickly. I'm fairly confident the packaging for the pictured slice would have listed sugar as an ingredient.
I’ve tested it on homemade bread without sugar and noticed it. It even works when you don’t tell people ahead of time why they’re doing the experiment.
The link was chosen arbitrarily, you can find plenty of other examples if you’re concerned about its authenticity. But, it’s not a very strong flavor so you do want a bland bread.
The link was chosen arbitrarily, you can find plenty of other examples if you’re concerned about its authenticity. But, it’s not a very strong flavor so you do want a bland bread.
One must be careful when editing the germ line. Imagine that your gene changes were propagated but a disaster befalls the planet such that calories are now scarce as had been dozens of millennia ago. Those who couldn't eat enough food or consume enough sugar-based calories could die out, and if there are enough of those kinds of people among the population, the population size could reduce significantly.
Presumably in a post apocalyptic situation survivors wouldn't be surrounded by a glut of processed sugary foods.
> but a disaster befalls the planet such that calories are now scarce as had been dozens of millennia ago
> the population size could reduce significantly
The latter is a foregone conclusion of the former.
> the population size could reduce significantly
The latter is a foregone conclusion of the former.
> I can imagine a future scenario where, in the interests of public health, someone figures out how to transliterate the 'too much salt' genes to 'too much sugar' genes.
This has already been contemplated as a way to reduce consumption of red meat. [1] Just make people allergic to it. All in the name of fighting global warming of course.
1: https://twitter.com/bitcoinorthobro/status/14072586753587159...
This has already been contemplated as a way to reduce consumption of red meat. [1] Just make people allergic to it. All in the name of fighting global warming of course.
1: https://twitter.com/bitcoinorthobro/status/14072586753587159...
That’s the most PETA thing I’ve heard in about forever.
tl;dw: crazy person wants to intentionally give the entire human population alpha-gal syndrome.
Unfortunately not just some "crazy person". He heads up the College of Global Public Health’s Center for Bioethics at New York University
I don't think the "too much sugar" crisis in the US is due to people cannot feel there is too much sugar. It's just overly sweet food is the default in so many parts of the US. Ice cream here is much sweeter than in Asia. Cup cakes in the US can send me straight to sugar coma after just one bite.
When I asked a friend if they thought the cup cake was sweet. They said that isn't cup cake supposed to be sweet? And they don't think it's overly sweet since all the cup cakes they have had were like that.
When I asked a friend if they thought the cup cake was sweet. They said that isn't cup cake supposed to be sweet? And they don't think it's overly sweet since all the cup cakes they have had were like that.
Still kinda disturbs me that scientists will routinely do some kind of genetic or other biological modification of say, a mouse, and then when the results are in, simply kill the animal and dispose of it.
Counterpoint: people who aren't scientists kill animals all the time, and don't even genetically engineer them first.
This is why we worry about robot take over, it’s because we’re assholes, we worry we’ll create bigger, better assholes.
We talk about which scientists we should put in charge of AI and I think that's all wrong. The self-preserving question is which philosophers should we put in charge? And which group of developmental psychologists should be auditing their work?
Teach
your children well
Their father's hell did slowly go by
Feed them on your dreams
The one they pick's the one you'll know by
...
And know they love you
Teach
your children well
Their father's hell did slowly go by
Feed them on your dreams
The one they pick's the one you'll know by
...
And know they love you
What else can they do with them?
I always wondered if it is the sodium or the chlorine that triggers the flavor. Unfortunately licking raw sodium would explode and elemental chlorine is a gas that burns ¯ \ _ ( ツ ) _ / ¯
Potassium chloride tastes a lot like salt, but not exactly. Which I think means that it's some sort of 80/20 ratio.
Also one of my favorite science thought experiments from the last few years: What ~~does hydrogen~~ do protons taste like?
Also one of my favorite science thought experiments from the last few years: What ~~does hydrogen~~ do protons taste like?
Hydrogen ions. More specifically, protons.
Spoiler (rot13): Lbhe fbhe erprcgbef qrgrpg npvqf. Npvqf ner zbyrphyrf juvpu unir serr cbfvgvir ulqebtra vbaf (nxn cebgbaf). Cebgbaf gnfgr fbhe.
Spoiler (rot13): Lbhe fbhe erprcgbef qrgrpg npvqf. Npvqf ner zbyrphyrf juvpu unir serr cbfvgvir ulqebtra vbaf (nxn cebgbaf). Cebgbaf gnfgr fbhe.
> Potassium chloride tastes a lot like salt
Not at all, it‘s disgusting. The idea of replacing NaCl with it is laughable.
Not at all, it‘s disgusting. The idea of replacing NaCl with it is laughable.
It's not though? I can't really tell the difference at normal food salt levels.
For people with hypertension it's a fantastic replacement. Or even if you're concerned about low potassium.
I mean, Morton sells it as salt replacement in little salt shakers in the grocery store. It's pretty mainstream.
For people with hypertension it's a fantastic replacement. Or even if you're concerned about low potassium.
I mean, Morton sells it as salt replacement in little salt shakers in the grocery store. It's pretty mainstream.
We've been coming back around to the idea it's not the sodium but the chlorine that's the problem in hypertension. Hypertension is one of those areas we like to pretend like we know what we're doing but it's half bullshit and accidental boner pills.
Also how do you tell your friend that his wife is kind of a lot and maybe his hypertension is cortisol and not congenital?
Also how do you tell your friend that his wife is kind of a lot and maybe his hypertension is cortisol and not congenital?
> Also how do you tell your friend that his wife is kind of a lot and maybe his hypertension is cortisol and not congenital?
many such cases
many such cases
> I mean, Morton sells it as salt replacement in little salt shakers in the grocery store. It's pretty mainstream.
They also sell margarine in cute butter-like packages and sweet ‘n low or stevia in the same single-serve packets as sugar. Doesn’t mean they don’t taste absolutely foul.
They also sell margarine in cute butter-like packages and sweet ‘n low or stevia in the same single-serve packets as sugar. Doesn’t mean they don’t taste absolutely foul.
> They also sell margarine in cute butter-like packages
Don't wanna call it deceiving.
People, who followed their doctors advice, and switched to margarine after a heart attack, more often had another one than those who stayed with butter.
Hm, just thought: Maybe it has to do more with the anxiety of those individuals than the trans fats in margarine. Still, i keep those plastic fats out of my body.
Don't wanna call it deceiving.
People, who followed their doctors advice, and switched to margarine after a heart attack, more often had another one than those who stayed with butter.
Hm, just thought: Maybe it has to do more with the anxiety of those individuals than the trans fats in margarine. Still, i keep those plastic fats out of my body.
I tried some of this "salt alternative" recently, and... wow, you are not joking, that stuff is absolutely vile!
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One of my favorite random youtube videos: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RJh9yTIBY48 "What salt tastes the best? Li, Na, K, Rb, Cs and more"
Ions are very different to the atomic form. For instance copper is the familiar red-brown metal. Cu2+ ions though, are blue and dissolve in water. Clearly they are entirely different species.
Both. That horrible Finnish salty liquorice is made salty by the addition of ammonium chloride, which has no sodium. Sodium acetate and sodium glutamate taste salty, despite having no chloride in.
My speculative guess would be that the salt sensor just senses ionic strength, so any substance which readily splits into ions will taste salty.
(obviously i wrote this comment before reading the article, which talks about all this stuff in modest detail!)
My speculative guess would be that the salt sensor just senses ionic strength, so any substance which readily splits into ions will taste salty.
(obviously i wrote this comment before reading the article, which talks about all this stuff in modest detail!)
Somebody tried to find out:
https://youtu.be/RJh9yTIBY48?si=7YWV6WbZ3mAWE0Si
It’s not just somebody, it’s Tom from Explosions&Fire! He’s an absolute legend.
I don‘t think that question makes sense. This is like asking whether the H or the O makes water wet: It‘s the combination.
Except that NaCl dissolves into sodium and chloride ions in water. in any context in which you are actually tasting it, you are not tasting NaCl, you are tasting some combination of Na+ and Cl-, at which point, asking which (if either) is the one driving the experience.
I did not know that. What happens if you take out all the Na atoms? Will it become a deadly Cl wash?
> What happens if you take out all the Na atoms?
You can't _just_ take out the Na. You'd have to do some kind of reaction, and then it'd really just depend what you put in instead.
The closest thing I can think of to "take out all the Na atoms" would be https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloralkali_process , where yeah you get a lot of Chlorine and lye.
You can't _just_ take out the Na. You'd have to do some kind of reaction, and then it'd really just depend what you put in instead.
The closest thing I can think of to "take out all the Na atoms" would be https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloralkali_process , where yeah you get a lot of Chlorine and lye.
Also, salt is the only mineral humans consume in raw form!
What about iodine?
You’re right.. with the added bonus of most people getting their iodine through their salt, anyway!
Lucky iron fish: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucky_iron_fish
Those aren't raw, they're cooked.
/s
/s
Recently? Come, now.
> If an animal takes in too much salt, the body tries to compensate, holding on to water so the blood won’t be overly salty. In many people, that extra fluid volume raises blood pressure. The excess fluid puts strain on the arteries; over time, it can damage them and create the conditions for heart disease or stroke.
This flawed narrative was debunked years ago.
The correct one is something like this: the body can get used to a wide range of sodium intakes. Sodium-following fluid movement is temporary effect. Only certain individuals have a sensitivity linking blood pressure and sodium.