Ask HN: Have you tried weight loss drugs?
48 comments
To me what worked was going the slow route: do small but *permanent* adjustments to the diet in order to slowly decrease calorie consumption. This is the path that is safest against eating disorders.
Having soda 5x per week? Well, let's see if I can survive a month doing it only 3x per week. Perhaps later replace it with the Zero version, or buy a smaller bottle. Once I do one step and "stabilize" on it, then I can further reduce consumption.
Pay attention to what times of the day I am eating but not that hungry. I concluded that having just 1 slice of bread at breakfast (instead of 2) didn't make any difference at all, so I did that permanent change. It's just 70 calories, but it's 70 calories I was able to cut at basically no effort.
Recognize about how many calories each of the things you do have. Always start the optimization with the liquid calories: soda, juice, starbucks-like stuff, alcohol. Don't go hardcore and fully get rid of anything: reduce amount, frequency, try to substitute. I still love donuts, I still eat donuts: I'll never take this away from my menu. But I don't eat 5 donuts in a single seating, and I don't eat donuts every week. Chocolate was way easier to dramatically cut: I like it, but not that much. I have no idea why I ate M&Ms: it's not even that good, but it was available (as my son loves it), so I just ate it without thinking. I don't anymore.
Same with exercise: I bought a stationary bike and my first goal was to do 15 minute sessions 2x per week, while watching youtube. I soon realized I could do 20 minutes every other day. Now I also do a small amount of weight lifting 1x per week after the bike. Also recognize that the goal of the exercise is *not* to burn calories, as calories burnt by exercise area way too little. By developing muscles you increase your base metabolism, and that's the biggest help. Also you get healthier and your day gets easier.
One small step at a time. Permanent changes. That will get you there eventually. This is a really good path, unless your doctor is screaming at you saying you need to lose weight immediately or you'll die. Try it.
Having soda 5x per week? Well, let's see if I can survive a month doing it only 3x per week. Perhaps later replace it with the Zero version, or buy a smaller bottle. Once I do one step and "stabilize" on it, then I can further reduce consumption.
Pay attention to what times of the day I am eating but not that hungry. I concluded that having just 1 slice of bread at breakfast (instead of 2) didn't make any difference at all, so I did that permanent change. It's just 70 calories, but it's 70 calories I was able to cut at basically no effort.
Recognize about how many calories each of the things you do have. Always start the optimization with the liquid calories: soda, juice, starbucks-like stuff, alcohol. Don't go hardcore and fully get rid of anything: reduce amount, frequency, try to substitute. I still love donuts, I still eat donuts: I'll never take this away from my menu. But I don't eat 5 donuts in a single seating, and I don't eat donuts every week. Chocolate was way easier to dramatically cut: I like it, but not that much. I have no idea why I ate M&Ms: it's not even that good, but it was available (as my son loves it), so I just ate it without thinking. I don't anymore.
Same with exercise: I bought a stationary bike and my first goal was to do 15 minute sessions 2x per week, while watching youtube. I soon realized I could do 20 minutes every other day. Now I also do a small amount of weight lifting 1x per week after the bike. Also recognize that the goal of the exercise is *not* to burn calories, as calories burnt by exercise area way too little. By developing muscles you increase your base metabolism, and that's the biggest help. Also you get healthier and your day gets easier.
One small step at a time. Permanent changes. That will get you there eventually. This is a really good path, unless your doctor is screaming at you saying you need to lose weight immediately or you'll die. Try it.
I think developing these habits requires real will power.
Its relatively easy getting pumped and aggressively dieting or exercising for few weeks/months, and then later slowing down and gaining back all the lost pounds.
A habit that seems to be making a difference for me is consciously chewing food 2x longer than usual. I end up eating less food and have improved bowl movements.
Its relatively easy getting pumped and aggressively dieting or exercising for few weeks/months, and then later slowing down and gaining back all the lost pounds.
A habit that seems to be making a difference for me is consciously chewing food 2x longer than usual. I end up eating less food and have improved bowl movements.
> I think developing these habits requires real will power.
That's why the modern method suggests you to take *small* but permanent steps forward. Cutting a slice of bread per week was easy. Cutting M&Ms was easy. Cutting soda cups to be 60% of what they were before was, well, manageable. Biking for 15 minutes 2x per week was easy. If you feel a step is too big then it's going to require a lot of willpower, so you try to take a smaller one. Over time you accumulate a ton of tiny gains and realize it all adds up to make a big difference.
That's why the modern method suggests you to take *small* but permanent steps forward. Cutting a slice of bread per week was easy. Cutting M&Ms was easy. Cutting soda cups to be 60% of what they were before was, well, manageable. Biking for 15 minutes 2x per week was easy. If you feel a step is too big then it's going to require a lot of willpower, so you try to take a smaller one. Over time you accumulate a ton of tiny gains and realize it all adds up to make a big difference.
Once when I was still smoking, I ran a 10K run and then had a cigarette. Some part of me, said "how stupid is this"?
We have a corporate food system that promotes obesity. Now other corporations want us to pay $1000/month to "cure" obesity. How stupid is that?
Go to a grocery store, measure the frontage into three categories:
- directly obesity inducing (soft drinks, chips, candy, flavored, sugar drinks, etc)
- processed and obesity inducing. Frozen meals. Mac and cheese, anything with added fat, sugar. How much salt induces obesity? Will meat from animals that have been given growth enhancers then enhance your growth? Will meat ground with fat induce obesity?
- healthy. Fresh vegetables, fruit, beans etc.
Now here is the question for you? Which of these groups make the most profit to the supplier? And does that align with the groupings above?
At my grocery store that we literally have less that one side of one aisle of fresh fruit and vegetables. And even there, more and more of the space is taken by packaged veggies - chopped lettuce with included salad dressing etc.
Our perception of our food system is whacked out. "a dominant theme has been that we have the safest food supply in the world." [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK209121/], and yet we have an epidemic of obesity. How safe is obesity?
We have a corporate food system that promotes obesity. Now other corporations want us to pay $1000/month to "cure" obesity. How stupid is that?
Go to a grocery store, measure the frontage into three categories:
- directly obesity inducing (soft drinks, chips, candy, flavored, sugar drinks, etc)
- processed and obesity inducing. Frozen meals. Mac and cheese, anything with added fat, sugar. How much salt induces obesity? Will meat from animals that have been given growth enhancers then enhance your growth? Will meat ground with fat induce obesity?
- healthy. Fresh vegetables, fruit, beans etc.
Now here is the question for you? Which of these groups make the most profit to the supplier? And does that align with the groupings above?
At my grocery store that we literally have less that one side of one aisle of fresh fruit and vegetables. And even there, more and more of the space is taken by packaged veggies - chopped lettuce with included salad dressing etc.
Our perception of our food system is whacked out. "a dominant theme has been that we have the safest food supply in the world." [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK209121/], and yet we have an epidemic of obesity. How safe is obesity?
1.Ephedrine Caffeine Aspirin (old ECA stack)
2.MuscleTech Vapor X5
3.“Truck stop speed”
Just my experiences, not recommendations or advice, do your own homework.
https://youtu.be/_3-Vlql2ivM James Smith - burning 5000 calories then eating 5000 calories. He also has a video on clenbuterol “fitness industry secret weapon”. Generally helpful exercise/weight loss advice videos.
1: used for boosting exercise and losing weight. Good for boosting energy and the combo reduces caffeine crash. A few sports players have died from using it + bad hearts. It’s still accessible. Seemed like I could eat a massive amount of clean food with a good ratio of protein/fat/carbs, gain strength, and the weight gains were clean while losing waist inches. Tracking body measurements were necessary.
2: exercise and losing weight. Very good stimulant effect and to hit new personal records. Can give headaches so I cut the dose to 1/4 or 1/2. Great for overcoming the not wanting to work out days which leads to more exercise days per week and a more healthy lifestyle.
3: hard to tell what is really in it. Possibly something illegal but if you work 12 hours and need to then drive 12 hours to get home without falling asleep, this was what I would reach for. Found at the checkout counter at popular truck stops.
2.MuscleTech Vapor X5
3.“Truck stop speed”
Just my experiences, not recommendations or advice, do your own homework.
https://youtu.be/_3-Vlql2ivM James Smith - burning 5000 calories then eating 5000 calories. He also has a video on clenbuterol “fitness industry secret weapon”. Generally helpful exercise/weight loss advice videos.
1: used for boosting exercise and losing weight. Good for boosting energy and the combo reduces caffeine crash. A few sports players have died from using it + bad hearts. It’s still accessible. Seemed like I could eat a massive amount of clean food with a good ratio of protein/fat/carbs, gain strength, and the weight gains were clean while losing waist inches. Tracking body measurements were necessary.
2: exercise and losing weight. Very good stimulant effect and to hit new personal records. Can give headaches so I cut the dose to 1/4 or 1/2. Great for overcoming the not wanting to work out days which leads to more exercise days per week and a more healthy lifestyle.
3: hard to tell what is really in it. Possibly something illegal but if you work 12 hours and need to then drive 12 hours to get home without falling asleep, this was what I would reach for. Found at the checkout counter at popular truck stops.
I used the ECA stack once. The weight loss was successful, but I also permanently injured my body during that time, and I think it might have been caused by ECA (large amounts of caffeine allowed me to push beyond healthy limits). So, you know, be careful.
My kids call it my "Dad-kins" (a pun on Atkins) diet.
Buy a scale. Record your weight. (e.g. 200.0lbs)
Week 1: you can eat anything you want in one sitting if the scale shows less than 200.0lbs
Week 2: you can eat anything you want in one sitting if the scale shows less than 199.9lbs (200.0-0.1)
Week 3: you can eat anything you want in one sitting if the scale shows less than 199.8lbs (199.9-0.1)
...
Week X: you can eat anything you want in one sitting if the scale shows less than (last week's goal - 0.1)
So losing a pound takes 10 weeks. Losing 10 pounds takes 100 weeks, etc.
The subtle part is that
(a) you can only eat when the scale says so which means that grabbing junk food gets ruled out unless the scale agrees.
(b) you don't feel "deprived" because you can anything you want in one sitting.
(c) you discover that eating junk food at your "one sitting" just means it will take longer before you can eat again.
(d) because you're SLOWLY changing your eating habits using external measurable control your body will lose weight and keep it off, gradually starving those fat cells.
(e) this is a "diet" in the sense of changing your eating habits, not in the current perverted meaning of trying to "diet" by "crashing" your weight loss.
Eventually you'll discover that if you skip anything containing high fructose corn syrup you tend to get to eat more frequently. That HFCS really hurts.
Buy a scale. Record your weight. (e.g. 200.0lbs)
Week 1: you can eat anything you want in one sitting if the scale shows less than 200.0lbs
Week 2: you can eat anything you want in one sitting if the scale shows less than 199.9lbs (200.0-0.1)
Week 3: you can eat anything you want in one sitting if the scale shows less than 199.8lbs (199.9-0.1)
...
Week X: you can eat anything you want in one sitting if the scale shows less than (last week's goal - 0.1)
So losing a pound takes 10 weeks. Losing 10 pounds takes 100 weeks, etc.
The subtle part is that
(a) you can only eat when the scale says so which means that grabbing junk food gets ruled out unless the scale agrees.
(b) you don't feel "deprived" because you can anything you want in one sitting.
(c) you discover that eating junk food at your "one sitting" just means it will take longer before you can eat again.
(d) because you're SLOWLY changing your eating habits using external measurable control your body will lose weight and keep it off, gradually starving those fat cells.
(e) this is a "diet" in the sense of changing your eating habits, not in the current perverted meaning of trying to "diet" by "crashing" your weight loss.
Eventually you'll discover that if you skip anything containing high fructose corn syrup you tend to get to eat more frequently. That HFCS really hurts.
Are you weighing yourself before or after the meal?
Before the meal. You have to be below this week's target weight before you can eat today.
Weight loss isn't linear though.. your weight varies daily by sodium, water intake, ovulation cycle (for women), etc.
If you can withstand the first few days, a lo carb / zero carb diet will do wonders for your appetite. I don’t know what the long term impacts are of such a diet but I do know from personal experience that it’s drastically improved my ability to withstand cravings.
It's amazing how quiet I can make the inner food voice if I fast and try to eat keto. More amazing is how fast a single day or two of carb listing utterly ruins it. I'm in the middle of a two day fast right now to try and get reset
Anecdotally,
Garcinia seems to be the most useful so far, mostly by lowering appetite.
Fat burners mostly rely on 1) increasing metabolism via caffeine 2) making that effect last longer. It seems to make things worse for me by increasing hunger, and sometimes makes me feel tired like when I have a fever and I end up lying around all day. Fevers burn lots of calories too, so I suspect it's artificially creating the same effect. It's probably most useful when combined with workouts. Also I think a lot of programmers have higher caffeine tolerance.
Things that keep blood sugar low are very effective in reducing weight but part of it is done by reducing water. Side effect is your brain needs plenty of sugar for processing, so it was not suited to programming work.
Garcinia seems to be the most useful so far, mostly by lowering appetite.
Fat burners mostly rely on 1) increasing metabolism via caffeine 2) making that effect last longer. It seems to make things worse for me by increasing hunger, and sometimes makes me feel tired like when I have a fever and I end up lying around all day. Fevers burn lots of calories too, so I suspect it's artificially creating the same effect. It's probably most useful when combined with workouts. Also I think a lot of programmers have higher caffeine tolerance.
Things that keep blood sugar low are very effective in reducing weight but part of it is done by reducing water. Side effect is your brain needs plenty of sugar for processing, so it was not suited to programming work.
So the weight loss drugs in the show were similar to Garcinia?
Because people seem to be losing appetite and getting addicted xD
Because people seem to be losing appetite and getting addicted xD
Perhaps. Garcinia is in a lot of stacks. "Losing appetite and getting addicted" happens with a lot of narcotics too, lol
> but they didn’t take any clear stand on the matter.
So, you refer to South Park for medical advice ?
So, you refer to South Park for medical advice ?
They took a very clear stand btw. "Rich people get Ozempic, poor people are prescribed body-positivity".
I thought it wouldn’t end well for the “rich” people - they would end up with some consequences like man-bear-pig or participating in fads like Prime energy drink.
But it wasn’t great either. Cartman never got thin, randy never got thin, women got abs - and maybe super high cravings/addiction to the drug.
That got me thinking, are they saying that this drug is legit but expensive because of the messed up healthcare system or its just a rick people fad and get them to do stupid things.
But it wasn’t great either. Cartman never got thin, randy never got thin, women got abs - and maybe super high cravings/addiction to the drug.
That got me thinking, are they saying that this drug is legit but expensive because of the messed up healthcare system or its just a rick people fad and get them to do stupid things.
I can agree on this line, but I would try to get my hands on some serious information and speak with one or more doctors.
No, but usually they are trying to prove a point like ‘lazy solutions have great beginnings but don’t end well’. This time it was different and I might be living under a rock but never heard of weight loss drugs.
It was by far one of their most unrelatable escapades. The commentary on the US healthcare system was good, but everything else just felt like Hollywood problems. I think Matt and Trey no longer inhabit the same space as everyone else, and it's showing.
(Other comments: the character interactions felt wrong, Kyle was too willing to help Cartman, and Butters was too willing to help without being cajoled into it first, the shootout scene felt clunky and even gratuitous. It felt very low effort towards the end.)
(Other comments: the character interactions felt wrong, Kyle was too willing to help Cartman, and Butters was too willing to help without being cajoled into it first, the shootout scene felt clunky and even gratuitous. It felt very low effort towards the end.)
Whenever I have a discussion about weight loss, I like to share this TEDx video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuIlsN32WaE
Just because I think it is quite interesting, not trying to make a point or anything :-).
Just because I think it is quite interesting, not trying to make a point or anything :-).
What about eating healthier and doing more sport? I heard it works pretty well.
The main mechanism is [eat less] --> [lose weight].
Some people find it difficult to eat less, hence the drugs to suppress appetite.
Some people find it difficult to eat less, hence the drugs to suppress appetite.
I would think that the main mechanism is that if you "use" more than you eat, then you lose weight. You have two levers to lose weight: "use more" and "eat less". And then there is the part where not everything you eat is egal, so "eat better", somehow.
Technically correct about the balance, but practically people overestimate the amount you can burn with extra activity. The main reason to exercise while losing weight is that if you do resistance training, you preserve more of your muscle and lose predominantly fat - it’s not to burn more calories.
And I disagree about emphasising “better” instead of “less”. “Better” than doesn’t lose weight.
And I disagree about emphasising “better” instead of “less”. “Better” than doesn’t lose weight.
Why estimate and not just calculate ? It’s not a hard calculation, walking calorie burn calculators are reasonably accurate. Walking just takes time, which you may value a little higher than burning calories.
> “Better” than doesn’t lose weight.
So you're saying that feeding oneself exclusively with chocolate will has the same result as feeding oneself with vegetables? Sounds counter-intuitive.
So you're saying that feeding oneself exclusively with chocolate will has the same result as feeding oneself with vegetables? Sounds counter-intuitive.
Let's say that you eat n calories of junk food every day (maybe that's all you eat or a part of your diet). Replace those with n calories of healthy foods. Great - you've probably made a good change for your health long term. But you haven't made progress towards losing weight because your calories are the same.
Now say you eat exclusively chocolate when you are hungry, during the whole day. And let's compare that to a day where you eat exclusively vegetables when you are hungry.
Will you have eaten the same amount of calories both days?
Will you have eaten the same amount of calories both days?
Sports is actually extremely inefficient when you look at the science. However, when you look at anecdotes, it seems to be consistently impactful. I think it's more an issue with how we're calculating calories out.
I am fairly certain I know the answer to this. They normally do these kind of studies on untrained humans, because the point is to prescribe (or not) exercise to people who need to lose weight, which are typically not athletes. The anecdotal success comes from people who play sports (tautologically). The problem is you cannot compare across these two groups because the metabolism and sheer volume of exercise is not comparable. Even a semi serious athlete will put in 5-6 hours of intense training a week. And their bodies are much more efficient, so they can burn way more calories in the same time. This is NOT the same as “Brisk walk and lift some weights 3-4 times a week” they prescribe the study group in a study of untrained athletes. Not even close.
I mean the typical advice I get is 1 hour of running burns as much calories as one large slice of pepperoni pizza (~700 cal). Trained or untrained, this seems off by a lot.
Why does it seem off? It's hard to measure calories when running, but with cycling we have power meters which are incredibly precise, and you will burn around 700 calories an hour (as a beginner). Trained athletes can burn maybe double of that.
Because it burns off about a whole large pizza's worth, rather than one slice, and I'm not trained.
It will be hard to pick apart why. Muscles increase metabolism plus I suspect after a workout you feel like protein not carbs/sugar. You eat that and feel full. Then there is plain old confounding of people who have a good diet and people who exercise.
Folks who can be bothered to put in the effort to commit to regular exercise are more likely to be able to be disciplined about what they eat. Levels of exercise are probably pretty well correlated with folks who are serious about their weight.
I think weight loss is more than just calories in/out. Maybe our body reacts to adapt to situations and tried to change the body shape to make it easier for itself. So I think healthy habits are more important and can depend on genetic history too.
I think emotions are a huge part of weight gain and loss and yet most Western medicine seems to almost completely ignore the impact of emotions on the body. Try eating a lot of food when sad—it's hard to take even a bite. Yet it's hard to even realize just how much one is eating when anxious.
I also imagine the emotions impact digestion and storage of fats and a lot more, basically adapting our bodies to our perceived environments, so it kinda baffles me that we don't study the emotional impact more.
I also imagine the emotions impact digestion and storage of fats and a lot more, basically adapting our bodies to our perceived environments, so it kinda baffles me that we don't study the emotional impact more.
Yes, I agree. I feel we are definitely missing out.
A clear example is something like cortisol. It damages your body to give you a short term advantage to survive a situation.
Being under stress might make you burn lots of calories, but stress ends up being weight gain in the long term because the body tells you to save up more energy for next time.
Being under stress might make you burn lots of calories, but stress ends up being weight gain in the long term because the body tells you to save up more energy for next time.
What do you think about sports (say badminton) compared to treadmill or cross-trainer for cardio?
If I end up burning the same amount calories? Because I find it much easier to burn calories playing badminton compared to treadmill..
If I end up burning the same amount calories? Because I find it much easier to burn calories playing badminton compared to treadmill..
The same thing as “don’t have unprotected sex and AIDS will go away”.
I have unprotected sex all the time. I'm on prep. Maybe if I was on semaglutide I could eat carbs with out turning into a monster that wants to eat every cinnamon roll in existence. Idk.
I think it is a bit different: I believe that a big reason for AIDS is lack of education about it and lack of access to protections.
Whereas in order to get weight loss drugs you need access to it.
Whereas in order to get weight loss drugs you need access to it.
This post is an “Ask HN” about trying weight loss drugs. I don’t think a comment suggesting that people who want to lose weight have low self-discipline and are lazy is very helpful.
Can you please your practical experiences with them?