How Running a Business Changes the Way You Think (2011)(kalzumeus.com)
kalzumeus.com
How Running a Business Changes the Way You Think (2011)
https://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/07/08/business-psychology/
89 comments
> which may have a far greater ROI than simply saving money for a few months
My business experience taught me the opposite of this, and I've carried it over to my personal life. What I do in both my personal and business money management is to identify the two or three key things that are critical to success and go high-end on those, then do everything else as cheaply as I possibly can.
My business experience taught me the opposite of this, and I've carried it over to my personal life. What I do in both my personal and business money management is to identify the two or three key things that are critical to success and go high-end on those, then do everything else as cheaply as I possibly can.
Thank you for this comment
> as long as you make something other people want.
I would remove that qualifier.
I have plenty of friends living in the wild in Yukon and Alaska who live very happily on <$20k a year.
One friend was bummed she had to work for 8 weeks at a mining camp as a cook. That is the most she has ever worked in her life, and she's in her 50s.
I would remove that qualifier.
I have plenty of friends living in the wild in Yukon and Alaska who live very happily on <$20k a year.
One friend was bummed she had to work for 8 weeks at a mining camp as a cook. That is the most she has ever worked in her life, and she's in her 50s.
I would argue that living in the wild in the Yukon is hard work. Isn't 8 weeks the most your friend was employed, rather?
> a far greater ROI
sometimes this is self-deluding. You perhaps didnt need those luxury furnishings, when a barebones one would've done the same job. It's an excuse that some people use to justify their splurge.
sometimes this is self-deluding. You perhaps didnt need those luxury furnishings, when a barebones one would've done the same job. It's an excuse that some people use to justify their splurge.
I’m in my late forties and have been battling a terrible back problem for the last 16 months. Sadly, it was caused by my own decision to stick to barebones instead of upgrading decades earlier. The 16 months have been extremely expensive, to a point that I would have had a 1200% ROI even if I had splurged.
I know that one person’s bad luck doesn’t cancel out good rules for financial management. And I agreed completely with you up until 16 months ago. But in retrospect, I would have made different choices.
I know that one person’s bad luck doesn’t cancel out good rules for financial management. And I agreed completely with you up until 16 months ago. But in retrospect, I would have made different choices.
I think the difference between “luxury” and not is a red herring here. The real wisdom is to spend enough to get really serviceable versions of the things you use everyday. That doesn’t mean “luxury”, per se. but it does mean if you e.g. spend 6+ a day in a chair at your home (or work) , make sure it’s a good fit for you.
Get a decent mattress and pillows. Replace your pot from college with the handle that falls off. Paint the room you hate the color of. The ROI on such things is huge.
Get a decent mattress and pillows. Replace your pot from college with the handle that falls off. Paint the room you hate the color of. The ROI on such things is huge.
This is way off topic, but ska is my oldest nickname. Hluska is my last name and it’s just a shortened version. It was even one of my usernames back in the day. Ska is such an enduring nickname that anyone who knows me well in person could logically conclude that I’m talking to myself now.
I agree with you (and clearly like your username), but writing to ska is quite amusing.
Thanks for commenting and I hope you have an excellent day! :)
I agree with you (and clearly like your username), but writing to ska is quite amusing.
Thanks for commenting and I hope you have an excellent day! :)
Nice to meet another "ska". It's derived from my name also, and I've used it as a login and more for ages. Usually when people comment on it they assume I'm a big fan of the music style :)
Used Herman Miller chairs are around $400, the same price point as fancy gamer chairs.
It isn't even splurging, just spending some time looking through Craigslist or Facebook Marketplace.
Everyone reading this: Take care of your back!
It isn't even splurging, just spending some time looking through Craigslist or Facebook Marketplace.
Everyone reading this: Take care of your back!
'Fancy' gamer chairs are anything but.
They are generally poorly made, have terrible ergonomics, but absolutely excel at being plastered with logos and advertisements.
They are generally poorly made, have terrible ergonomics, but absolutely excel at being plastered with logos and advertisements.
I got an office chair that supposedly was $1000USD new.. it was many years used, but I really liked that chair. It had steel construction, swivel and almost no "rocker" tilt, wide base seat almost flat but with a seat cover that was just right.. it was square box'y basically .. shorter answer, do not use a cheap chair really.
Tried Herman Miller. To me it was very uncomfortable and I could feel the mesh and lining. Went for another type of chair that is marketed as ergonomic. It is polyster and has all the support you need, especially for tall people. It's not very soft but extremely good for your back.
Especially now, there's warehouses full of them. If you're comfortable bargaining you can even get them cheaper since demand isn't that high. Delivery might be a reach, but they'll often do it for $20-$40 if they have a delivery near you.
Alright, you've convinced me to buy the adjustable sitting-standing desk. Thanks hluska.
Very much worth it. Just be mindful of your wiring setup, I have a mercifully only slightly wonky 4090 connector from having too much fun with my adjustable desk when I got it.
I found adjustable too fiddly. Instead got a quality standing desk and tall chair. No fiddling… sit or stand, good for back.
Thanks for writing and I’m glad you made that choice. Best of health!
I don’t know extent of your injuries, but weight exercises fixed back pain for me. You can’t seat in the good posture if there are no muscles to hold it.
This was also my initial reaction: don't buy an expensive chair; buy a squat rack, barbell, and plates. ROI is extremely high. Squats and deadlifts will do much more for your posture and long term back health than sitting in a different chair and still never using your back.
My wife used to wear a wrist brace for years until she started benching. Now she never gets pain. Lifting is also one of the safest sports there is. Highly recommend it for health, especially among the nerdy crowd who may not be inclined to try it; building muscle doesn't reduce nerd cred.
My wife used to wear a wrist brace for years until she started benching. Now she never gets pain. Lifting is also one of the safest sports there is. Highly recommend it for health, especially among the nerdy crowd who may not be inclined to try it; building muscle doesn't reduce nerd cred.
I think the line between "luxury" and "proper" is the debatable point.
And yes, no doubt some people use that as an excuse to over spend. But that doesn't mean people don't take it to the extreme in the other direction as well.
It really does come down to the numbers. If I can spend $X to take in $5x over the month, you should do that.
And yes, no doubt some people use that as an excuse to over spend. But that doesn't mean people don't take it to the extreme in the other direction as well.
It really does come down to the numbers. If I can spend $X to take in $5x over the month, you should do that.
> If I can spend $X to take in $5x over the month, you should do that.
indeed, but the point was that the $5x is not known in advance, and in fact, might even be an emphemeral figure.
Buying the right chair and desk for your height is not a luxury, but buying something expensive, when a cheaper version, which would've done the same job, is available, is to me the definition of luxury.
indeed, but the point was that the $5x is not known in advance, and in fact, might even be an emphemeral figure.
Buying the right chair and desk for your height is not a luxury, but buying something expensive, when a cheaper version, which would've done the same job, is available, is to me the definition of luxury.
To be fair, whether or not the cheaper version would do the same job is also not known in advance. There's also the fuzzy edges of what it means to "do the same job". All chairs ostensibly "do the same job" of providing you somewhere to sit. But there's variance there.
Just like all turing complete programming languages do "the same job" at some level. But we'd all be more productive in your choice of high level language over any processor-specific assembler.
Then it becomes a matter of asking when does it transition between appropriate and luxury. Which grain of sand makes the pile?
Just like all turing complete programming languages do "the same job" at some level. But we'd all be more productive in your choice of high level language over any processor-specific assembler.
Then it becomes a matter of asking when does it transition between appropriate and luxury. Which grain of sand makes the pile?
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It sounds like OP's ROI calculator and yours are different.
I'd say self-deluding that you're being financially "smart" by ruining your body hunched over a folding chair and $20 ikea table for 12 hours a day is a far more common problem, especially on HN.
Let's hope your customers don't have that same "anything but the cheapest option is luxury" mindset.
Let's hope your customers don't have that same "anything but the cheapest option is luxury" mindset.
Would you think that saving ~5K on property sale taxes in 2 years is not worth it if not saving and selling now would upgrade their tools/workspace?
Or you could do all those things by doing something that people pay you to stop. I think is kind of language is dangerous any American adult knows this isn’t really true because most people have choices because they have money and money gets you more money. This is free speech.
I always like seeing old patio11 posts get resurrected to the HN radar. In reading this one an interesting detail stood out to me, he calling his upbringing "modest," and it suddenly made some dots connect in my head.
I too grew up in a fairly modest household, where I was often told that good grades were the ticket out of a precarious existence and into, if not a luxurious one, one with at least a modicum of safety. It really warped my perception for a long time about what I actually wanted out of life, and led me to some pretty tough choices emphasizing financial safety at all costs. It's hard to call those choices "wrong" so much as selected based on the flavor profile of a younger, much more anxious me, whereas I am now considerably more willing to swing for the fences now that I've realized just how high the ceiling, and how low the bar, really are.
I too grew up in a fairly modest household, where I was often told that good grades were the ticket out of a precarious existence and into, if not a luxurious one, one with at least a modicum of safety. It really warped my perception for a long time about what I actually wanted out of life, and led me to some pretty tough choices emphasizing financial safety at all costs. It's hard to call those choices "wrong" so much as selected based on the flavor profile of a younger, much more anxious me, whereas I am now considerably more willing to swing for the fences now that I've realized just how high the ceiling, and how low the bar, really are.
This is fascinating to me. I grew up in a very impoverished family and that has clearly shaped my relationship with money. I tend to resent it, or more correctly, I resent that it rules my life and I try to arrange things so I have to deal with it as little as possible.
Financial safety has never really been a huge deal with me because I know that I can live on almost nothing, and I know that money and how happy I am in life are not correlated. That means that I've taken risks that others wouldn't have taken because I don't see them as very risky. Sometimes, those have paid off.
Financial safety has never really been a huge deal with me because I know that I can live on almost nothing, and I know that money and how happy I am in life are not correlated. That means that I've taken risks that others wouldn't have taken because I don't see them as very risky. Sometimes, those have paid off.
Yeah, no, I'm glad that worked for you but this whole approach is anathema to me. Money and how happy I am in my own life are definitely correlated, and it's strongest at the bottom end.
The time of my life where I came closest to living on nothing were the 4 years where I was an unemployed NEET. Torrenting movies and eating day old rice got real old after a while. I'm considerably happier now that I kicked my ass into gear and am now making something valuable for my fellow man. That ascent is good reason to suspect my life will be even better if I can do things that drive even more
Now I've taken more than my share of risky moves in life after that period, and I intend to take more in the future. But saying "Well it's not risky to me, worst case scenario I'll just go back to rice and torrenting" is just not going to work for me, because I've been there before and it actually sucked. I'm no Diogenes. I find it's much better to fuel my actions from thinking about what an overwhelming success would look and feel like. Of course if I felt money and how happy I am in life were actually uncorrelated, then not only would failing the die roll suck immensely, but winning the die roll wouldn't actually make my life any better. Why play the game at all in that case? Luckily, in my experience, that latter part just isn't true at all.
The time of my life where I came closest to living on nothing were the 4 years where I was an unemployed NEET. Torrenting movies and eating day old rice got real old after a while. I'm considerably happier now that I kicked my ass into gear and am now making something valuable for my fellow man. That ascent is good reason to suspect my life will be even better if I can do things that drive even more
Now I've taken more than my share of risky moves in life after that period, and I intend to take more in the future. But saying "Well it's not risky to me, worst case scenario I'll just go back to rice and torrenting" is just not going to work for me, because I've been there before and it actually sucked. I'm no Diogenes. I find it's much better to fuel my actions from thinking about what an overwhelming success would look and feel like. Of course if I felt money and how happy I am in life were actually uncorrelated, then not only would failing the die roll suck immensely, but winning the die roll wouldn't actually make my life any better. Why play the game at all in that case? Luckily, in my experience, that latter part just isn't true at all.
Different people are different, naturally, and I celebrate that. I'm very pleased you've worked out what's best for you! I just find it interesting how different people's experience with poverty affects their relationship with money differently.
> Why play the game at all in that case?
Because, for me, "playing the game" isn't really about maximizing income. It's about doing something fulfilling. Income is important, of course. My business ventures have to generate enough income for me to live in the manner I prefer. But once that bar is met, income is not why I do any of it.
My only point is that I come from a place where if the venture fails, I'm fine. I can make another stab at one later. That gives me freedom that I value a lot and is the reason that I've had business successes. The risks I take aren't all that risky to me.
> Why play the game at all in that case?
Because, for me, "playing the game" isn't really about maximizing income. It's about doing something fulfilling. Income is important, of course. My business ventures have to generate enough income for me to live in the manner I prefer. But once that bar is met, income is not why I do any of it.
My only point is that I come from a place where if the venture fails, I'm fine. I can make another stab at one later. That gives me freedom that I value a lot and is the reason that I've had business successes. The risks I take aren't all that risky to me.
> It's hard to call those choices "wrong" so much as selected based on the flavor profile of a younger, much more anxious me, whereas I am now considerably more willing to swing for the fences now that I've realized just how high the ceiling, and how low the bar, really are
As someone in a similar situation where it has become time to make bigger bets: Those earlier smaller, safer, bets enabled you to get here. If you made the big bets too soon, you'd run out of swings.
Kelly criterion talks about this in a mathy sense. This fantastic old HN comment talks about it in a more relatable way: Entrepreneurship is like a carnival game https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15659076
As someone in a similar situation where it has become time to make bigger bets: Those earlier smaller, safer, bets enabled you to get here. If you made the big bets too soon, you'd run out of swings.
Kelly criterion talks about this in a mathy sense. This fantastic old HN comment talks about it in a more relatable way: Entrepreneurship is like a carnival game https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15659076
> a middle class man goes to work every single day, Monday through Friday, and that days not like that must be celebrations because they’re clearly the exceptions to the rule? Were we ever told that, or did it just seep in, somehow? Here’s a radical notion, let’s try it on: never work Thursdays
This thinking changed my life.
Back in about 2007 I was a young developer working full time, and a new guy started. He didn't work Wednesdays.
Why Not? Because he didn't want to. Because he didn't need more money. Because he wanted to ride his bike with his lawyer wife (who also didn't work Wednesdays).
I spent many, many hours over lunch chatting about this thinking and how in the world it was even possible - it utterly blew my mind coming from a completely middle-class "go to work everyday" family. I had no idea it was possible in this universe.
At my next job I negotiated a "flexible work agreement". If I put in an average of 37 hours per week, nobody really cared how I did it, as long as my work gone done. I sold it to the boss as good for the team because they would have to be able to fix whatever broke without me, and I would have to create good documentation on exactly how to do that. Over the next four years I basically never worked a Friday, and between leave days, stat holidays and the odd flex day, Mondays were rare too. I still got a full salary.
I will never work "full time" again.
These days now I run my own business, I will likely never work for someone again.
I feel lucky I had a few "Copernican moments" like this when I will still young enough to believe I might be able to pull it off (hint: you can).
This thinking changed my life.
Back in about 2007 I was a young developer working full time, and a new guy started. He didn't work Wednesdays.
Why Not? Because he didn't want to. Because he didn't need more money. Because he wanted to ride his bike with his lawyer wife (who also didn't work Wednesdays).
I spent many, many hours over lunch chatting about this thinking and how in the world it was even possible - it utterly blew my mind coming from a completely middle-class "go to work everyday" family. I had no idea it was possible in this universe.
At my next job I negotiated a "flexible work agreement". If I put in an average of 37 hours per week, nobody really cared how I did it, as long as my work gone done. I sold it to the boss as good for the team because they would have to be able to fix whatever broke without me, and I would have to create good documentation on exactly how to do that. Over the next four years I basically never worked a Friday, and between leave days, stat holidays and the odd flex day, Mondays were rare too. I still got a full salary.
I will never work "full time" again.
These days now I run my own business, I will likely never work for someone again.
I feel lucky I had a few "Copernican moments" like this when I will still young enough to believe I might be able to pull it off (hint: you can).
This is wonderful and something I'm aiming to do in the future, to some degree due to the Weekend Wednesday video from CGP Grey and some other places making strong cases for a 4 day workweek
Could you explain what other copernican moments have you experienced? [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALaTm6VzTBw
Could you explain what other copernican moments have you experienced? [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALaTm6VzTBw
> Could you explain what other copernican moments have you experienced?
There have been quite a few, I've written about them my books I've written about my adventures around the world [1].
- You really don't need much money to live, and if you're happy doing inexpensive things, you can be a very happy person without going to work much at all. A ~$300 day at Disneyland is a surefire good time, but if you enjoy a walk in the park throwing a Frisbee around with friends just as much... you'll have a lot more time to enjoy life.
- Be careful with debt. The reason so many people in the western world go to work everyday is because they get the debt, then have to work to pay it off. Go to a country where debt isn't really possible because the economy can't support it (Argentina, Mexico, Mali, Angola, etc.) and you'll see everyone has TONS of time to live the life they want. Play guitar, play with cousins, hangout on the beach. Little work, lots of living. No sane person will go to a soul-crushing job for weeks just to buy a new iPhone.. but because it isn't that obvious, everyone in developed countries actually does.
- You can live whatever life you want, and don't worry what other people say. If it's your close friends or family you can certainly take input and advice, but random people telling you stuff is pure noise.
[1] https://www.amazon.com/Books-Dan-Grec/s?rh=n%3A283155%2Cp_27...
There have been quite a few, I've written about them my books I've written about my adventures around the world [1].
- You really don't need much money to live, and if you're happy doing inexpensive things, you can be a very happy person without going to work much at all. A ~$300 day at Disneyland is a surefire good time, but if you enjoy a walk in the park throwing a Frisbee around with friends just as much... you'll have a lot more time to enjoy life.
- Be careful with debt. The reason so many people in the western world go to work everyday is because they get the debt, then have to work to pay it off. Go to a country where debt isn't really possible because the economy can't support it (Argentina, Mexico, Mali, Angola, etc.) and you'll see everyone has TONS of time to live the life they want. Play guitar, play with cousins, hangout on the beach. Little work, lots of living. No sane person will go to a soul-crushing job for weeks just to buy a new iPhone.. but because it isn't that obvious, everyone in developed countries actually does.
- You can live whatever life you want, and don't worry what other people say. If it's your close friends or family you can certainly take input and advice, but random people telling you stuff is pure noise.
[1] https://www.amazon.com/Books-Dan-Grec/s?rh=n%3A283155%2Cp_27...
> Be careful with debt. The reason so many people in the western world go to work everyday is because they get the debt, then have to work to pay it off. Go to a country where debt isn't really possible because the economy can't support it (Argentina, Mexico, Mali, Angola, etc.) and you'll see everyone has TONS of time to live the life they want.
Been living in Buenos Aires, Argentina for a year and a half now, and this is exactly what I've seen. This explanation makes sense. I always chalked it up to socializing being a much more important part of the culture than in the US.
Been living in Buenos Aires, Argentina for a year and a half now, and this is exactly what I've seen. This explanation makes sense. I always chalked it up to socializing being a much more important part of the culture than in the US.
I'd definitely put teacher below the green tradeoff line.
As a former investment banker, investment bankers don't make that much more than everyone else. Many functions are less. Some relationship managers, some traders, some investment managers, some deal makers do. But most don't make mega money.
As a former investment banker, investment bankers don't make that much more than everyone else. Many functions are less. Some relationship managers, some traders, some investment managers, some deal makers do. But most don't make mega money.
You really comparing IB to everyone else and saying they “don’t make that much more”?
Avg US wages is $59k
Avg IB wages is $180k (3x US overall avg)
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/wkyeng.pdf
https://www.wallstreetprep.com/knowledge/investment-banking-...
Avg US wages is $59k
Avg IB wages is $180k (3x US overall avg)
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/wkyeng.pdf
https://www.wallstreetprep.com/knowledge/investment-banking-...
Yes. As that's an average. Compared to others that went to competitive universities, it really isn't much more. It's also more triangular with even mainstream names having higher top ranges and broader bases than, say, FAANGy technology.
Equities in Dallas is a big reality. It's highly ageist. The lustre of Wall St or The City wears out after a while, Docklands like New Jersey is ghastly. Some get out and cut Connecticut hedges or polish pearls in Bond St, some make pizzas. Asia was fun in the 1990s, apparently.
Equities in Dallas is a big reality. It's highly ageist. The lustre of Wall St or The City wears out after a while, Docklands like New Jersey is ghastly. Some get out and cut Connecticut hedges or polish pearls in Bond St, some make pizzas. Asia was fun in the 1990s, apparently.
What does “ Equities in Dallas is a big reality” mean?
A phrase from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liar's_Poker
Compared to "Doctor" or "Enterprise Java Architect" which are also on the chart, that's not that much more.
Programming for long enough also changes the way you think. I suspect that's true for every nontrivial activity.
I used to do paragliding, it changed how I think about security protocols and equipment.
I will never drive a car without first fastening my seatbelt, I feel naked if not fastened(if you do it when paragliding, you die). I don't leave objects in unsecured state(if you do it on the hill, a wind gust messes up your day and even injures you). I trust mechanisms I understand(that's the only way you fly, you have to trust the tools and make sure the tools are in tip top condition.). I don't trust critical tools and systems without inspecting them(we did the regular maintenance of the reserve parachute ourselves and it was on us to work if needed).
This is one example of course but as you said, everything you consciously go through changes you profoundly. If are into drawing with pencil, that also changes you, I'm sure.
It's also why I'm worried quite a lot for people who experience everything through a screen in a bubble. I'm sure they are also profoundly changed by the experience and I'm afraid in a bad way. I suspect that's one of the main reasons people in many different cultures end up with similar constructs like "incel" - that is, the social experience through the screen is about the same everywhere and it primes the people to think about other people in a specific way.
I will never drive a car without first fastening my seatbelt, I feel naked if not fastened(if you do it when paragliding, you die). I don't leave objects in unsecured state(if you do it on the hill, a wind gust messes up your day and even injures you). I trust mechanisms I understand(that's the only way you fly, you have to trust the tools and make sure the tools are in tip top condition.). I don't trust critical tools and systems without inspecting them(we did the regular maintenance of the reserve parachute ourselves and it was on us to work if needed).
This is one example of course but as you said, everything you consciously go through changes you profoundly. If are into drawing with pencil, that also changes you, I'm sure.
It's also why I'm worried quite a lot for people who experience everything through a screen in a bubble. I'm sure they are also profoundly changed by the experience and I'm afraid in a bad way. I suspect that's one of the main reasons people in many different cultures end up with similar constructs like "incel" - that is, the social experience through the screen is about the same everywhere and it primes the people to think about other people in a specific way.
I've been diving for years and I learned that the deeper you go, there is a higher chance some of equipment can malfunction. Because of that I have to always plan or consider some backup solution. And that started to reflect on my daily activities - e.g. when I book a flight or a route, I put everything on paper, just in case all my devices die (which happened before).
Two is one, and one is none.
- military, skydivers, scuba divers (apparently), swat, many first responders.
- military, skydivers, scuba divers (apparently), swat, many first responders.
Incels are lonely first, then addicted to the screen. It’s a self-feeding relationship but a balanced teen will always have someone reaching out, while the incel is lonely. The addiction to the screen comes because there is a void (lots of interesting social studies here).
By the way, public announcement: Don’t forget to ring up your relatives, knock on your neighbor’s door and spend some time doing public service talking to weird people (after evaluating the risk). It goes a long way in releasing tensions.
By the way, public announcement: Don’t forget to ring up your relatives, knock on your neighbor’s door and spend some time doing public service talking to weird people (after evaluating the risk). It goes a long way in releasing tensions.
"used to" - did you stop paragliding? I'm a mid - P3 now.
The article is not just stating that running a business changes the way you think; it's explaining how it changes the way you think.
How do you think programming changes it?
Not OP, but I'll take a swing at this. I suspect that programming causes people to view the world as something which can be controlled with algorithms, and problems solved with algorithms.
We joke about it on HN pretty regularly, how it seems like programmers have the most hubris of anyone, always thinking every problem can be neatly solved with a bit of logic.
We joke about it on HN pretty regularly, how it seems like programmers have the most hubris of anyone, always thinking every problem can be neatly solved with a bit of logic.
A tendency to systematize, formalize, and delegate/abstract/automate portions (or entirety) of problems IMO.
A tendency to analyze and solve problems rationally. Even if unfortunately it is not at all a rational problem at the time.
A tendency to (successfully) deep dive in a recursive fashion on problems. Ex: contractor is doing something weird, talk to the city inspector. City inspector refers to building code. Read building code. Work with contractor to bring up to code, or sic the appropriate regulatory authority on them.
Etc.
Similar to debugging something weird in someone else’s backend.
A tendency to analyze and solve problems rationally. Even if unfortunately it is not at all a rational problem at the time.
A tendency to (successfully) deep dive in a recursive fashion on problems. Ex: contractor is doing something weird, talk to the city inspector. City inspector refers to building code. Read building code. Work with contractor to bring up to code, or sic the appropriate regulatory authority on them.
Etc.
Similar to debugging something weird in someone else’s backend.
I've thought about this a lot.
Short version, any sufficiently complex profession will have problems and associated solutions analogous to problems and solutions outside its domain. Therefore, the more deeply one understands a complex profession of that nature, the more likely one is to successfully apply lessons from that professional domain to problems outside it. Programming of course has peculiarities in that regard which color the kind of solutions one comes up with, eg a preoccupation with process and systems, linguistics, etc.
For the long version you can check out my book on the subject, shameless plug: https://www.amazon.com/Mindful-Programming-Christopher-Henni...
Short version, any sufficiently complex profession will have problems and associated solutions analogous to problems and solutions outside its domain. Therefore, the more deeply one understands a complex profession of that nature, the more likely one is to successfully apply lessons from that professional domain to problems outside it. Programming of course has peculiarities in that regard which color the kind of solutions one comes up with, eg a preoccupation with process and systems, linguistics, etc.
For the long version you can check out my book on the subject, shameless plug: https://www.amazon.com/Mindful-Programming-Christopher-Henni...
I spend a lot of my life 'optimizing' processes. I got that from programming (about 30 years ago)...if I'm unloading the dishwasher, I'm stacking bowls and grabbing the plates because they're in the same cabinet and I can put away more dishes in fewer steps. I'll pick up the cutting boards and measuring cups because they're in adjacent cabinets...
Doing things systematically. Making use of any information as soon as it's available to minimize the number of decisions that have to be made at once. Organizing stuff into small, composable units.
To contradict a sibling comment, I do not believe the world can be controlled, or that algorithms are a solution to everything. One important element of mastering programming (a world largely of pure logic) is to recognize how it differs from our human world.
To contradict a sibling comment, I do not believe the world can be controlled, or that algorithms are a solution to everything. One important element of mastering programming (a world largely of pure logic) is to recognize how it differs from our human world.
Hmm.. is it the same? I think some activities lead to internal focused changes, others face outwards. For me things like programming tend towards mostly affect my internal landscape, and something like dating would make me look outwards.
(mostly)
(mostly)
I've become a lot more obsessed about thinks making sense logically since I became a software engineer.
One thing you learn for sure: dealing with the public can suck. There are great people, and there is everyone else. You have to learn to ignore “everyone else” at some level.
Seems like a great article. Though I had a bit of a chuckle at where investment bankers got placed on the “how hard they work” chart.
>Though I had a bit of a chuckle at where investment bankers got placed on the “how hard they work” chart.
Or cleaning lady. Cleaning might not be fun, or glamourous. It may be thankless or unpleasant. But you don't exactly have to "work hard", by my definition at least (programming isn't hard work either, for what it's worth).
Or cleaning lady. Cleaning might not be fun, or glamourous. It may be thankless or unpleasant. But you don't exactly have to "work hard", by my definition at least (programming isn't hard work either, for what it's worth).
I did all the hard, crappy jobs through late teens and early 20s (demolition, roofing, house painting, pottery production, fast food, factory, grocery distribution warehouse). There is so little respect shown for workers in any of these that I imagine a lot of "cleaning" people work pretty hard. If you are self-employed in the profession it's probably a lot easier, but if you are being exploited, you're probably working pretty hard.
Who are these people that don't show respect? I hear this stated often 2nd hand, but never directly.
In my experience (from working shitty jobs) is that it's people who are abused by all day by people they can't stand up to (boss, husband, wife, etc.) and they end up unleashing their rage on the minimum wage powerless employee just because they don't have other option
That makes sense. Sounds more like some people are just assholes more than a systemic issue with lack of understanding or respect for the difficulty of certain jobs.
That's been my experience, but also I think you're probably just missing the lack of respect thing. The average middle class parent has no respect for these roles when it comes to one of their children doing it
What does respect mean in this context? We started with understanding the amount of effort, but I don't think that's what you're talking about.
I don't want my kids to become janitors or work fast food either, but it's not because I think the jobs are too easy.
I think it's possible to treat people working these jobs with some basic dignity, while realizing that there are practical differences
I don't want my kids to become janitors or work fast food either, but it's not because I think the jobs are too easy.
I think it's possible to treat people working these jobs with some basic dignity, while realizing that there are practical differences
I still think there should be pocket-parks with pullup bars and punching bags, so worked-up people can work out their aggressions on something else.
Has this been tried anywhere?
Has this been tried anywhere?
I am pretty sure a lack of exercise opportunity is not the limiting factor for aggro people
This is assuming that violence is a given. It’s not.
I personally think people should care better about agressive people, rather than the current “block him!” attitude, which leads to pent up aggressivity. A bit of love goes a long way.
I personally think people should care better about agressive people, rather than the current “block him!” attitude, which leads to pent up aggressivity. A bit of love goes a long way.
My mother cleans schools for a living, and she once remarked to me that most of the teaching staff in the grammar schools[1] she cleaned would avoid making conversation with the cleaners, and some would even avoid making eye contact, which was contrary to non-selective schools, where most of the teaching staff would make conversation with the cleaners.
[1] Grammar schools are academically-selective, state-funded schools in the UK and elsewhere—staff and students alike are generally of a higher socioeconomic milieu than in non-selective, state-funded schools.
[1] Grammar schools are academically-selective, state-funded schools in the UK and elsewhere—staff and students alike are generally of a higher socioeconomic milieu than in non-selective, state-funded schools.
Is that what people mean by lack or respect?
Seems more like disinterest or a lack of friendliness.
Seems more like disinterest or a lack of friendliness.
Not initiating conversation could be down to disinterest, yes.
But I think consistently refusing eye contact does constitute a lack of respect, if the person refusing to return eye contact has no problem returning it to the upper echelons of staff. And, having attended one of those grammar schools, I know that some of the teachers who refused to return eye contact had no issue with faux friendliness.
But I think consistently refusing eye contact does constitute a lack of respect, if the person refusing to return eye contact has no problem returning it to the upper echelons of staff. And, having attended one of those grammar schools, I know that some of the teachers who refused to return eye contact had no issue with faux friendliness.
Seems like what is more offensive here is the power imbalance, where one group can ignore the pretense or lie of friendliness.
I could see that expectation being a form of respect.
I could see that expectation being a form of respect.
Like most things, it's nuanced and I made an off the cuff comment. I think there are varying degrees of dignity and respect that all people need to be shown. At the minimum wage/manual job side of things, a lot of cultures have decided these people don't deserve (as much) dignity and respect as other professions. I disagree, working people are my people, and as a certain insecure tech CEO of multiple companies has made obvious for many people, being a CEO of a company past a certain size might - in many ways - be easier than being a cleaner.
As I mentioned in my previous comment, I've worked all (ok, most) of the shitty jobs. I've also been president of a software company and have been paid to play golf.
As I mentioned in my previous comment, I've worked all (ok, most) of the shitty jobs. I've also been president of a software company and have been paid to play golf.
I worked a service job for several years. People not showing respect was a daily occurrence. A better way to phrase it is people walking over you. It might be 5% under normal circumstances. If you make a mistake to the wrong person they’ll blowup, make a huge scene, yell for the manager, and ultimately get what they would’ve gotten regardless. One of those 2 hours into an 8 hour shift and it gets exhausting putting on a fake smile for 6 hours.
How much of that do you think is because of some abstract understanding of the difficulty of service jobs. I don't think it's a matter of comprehension or professional respect. Some people are just assholes and know they can get away with it
How do you define hard work?
Cleaning can require working hard (keeping up when cleaning cutlery etc in restaurant or number of rooms to do is intense) or it can be hard work (cleaning puke out of toilets...).
The chart data looks completely made up
i dont know if the author really knows how to use the "pushes my buttons" idiom
Not everyone uses 'pushes my buttons' to refer only to negative emotional responses.
https://grammarist.com/idiom/push-someones-buttons
https://grammarist.com/idiom/push-someones-buttons
did you check the examples they give under "What Are the Different Ways to Use the Idiom Push My Buttons?"?
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Another way running a business changes the way I think is the value of time and the ROI on temporary things. Most non-business people would hesitate, for example, to buy proper furnishings for their house or upgrade their tools/workspace if they only plan to stay somewhere temporarily for a few months, but I would do it because of how much more enjoyable and productive those few months will be if I had proper facilities, which may have a far greater ROI than simply saving money for a few months.