Don't store your cucumbers in the fridge (2012)(rootsimple.com)
rootsimple.com
Don't store your cucumbers in the fridge (2012)
https://www.rootsimple.com/2012/06/dont-store-your-cucumbers-in-the-fridge/
93 comments
All their examples of cucumber chilling damage are for cucumbers that were chilled and then warmed back to room temperature and held there for several days. This is an unusual thing to do; most people just leave them refrigerated until they eat them.
Keep in mind this is mostly a resource for farmers and grocers -- much less strange to imagine a cucumber that was stored at 5C for a day after picking, going to the farmers market, home with a shopper and then sitting on their counter for a few days. Interpreting it as direct advice for consumers can be a bit misleading, but there's still plenty to learn from it as a consumer.
In our house we store it in the fridge and cut off as much as needed, keeping the rest in the plastic wrap. This way I think they keep fine for up to a couple of weeks. At worst, the section nearest the cut will get a bit mushy and need to be sacrificed.
Huh, you made me realize that the plastic wraps for cucumbers have pretty much entirely disappeared here. I'm not really a fan for overuse of plastic packaging but I do wonder what effec it has on shelf life. Most produce does seem to not last as long as it used to but that could be due to many different factors (including bad memory).
Where is "here" for you? The advice in the linked article comes from UC Davis - and I bet California grows most of its own - whereas where I shop in the UK imports cucumbers from Spain and the Netherlands as well as some homegrown.
Huh. I’m shocked at the storage temps for apples. I always heard they go mealy in the fridge. Also that you should store things at home like they are in the store, and apples are never refrigerated at the store.
Lots of stuff that says 50-55 F which is unfortunate because most people don’t have any kind of storage at that temp.
Lots of stuff that says 50-55 F which is unfortunate because most people don’t have any kind of storage at that temp.
> Also that you should store things at home like they are in the store, and apples are never refrigerated at the store.
They are, it's just long before they're put out on display. That's how they manage to have fresh New York state apples in February.
They also pull out the oxygen: https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/11/26/668256349/th...
> The perfect combination of temperature and gases, which differs for each variety, allows apples to stay fresh for longer after harvest than if they were simply refrigerated. Commercially refrigerating apples only preserves the fruit for a few months before it gets soft and dehydrated. And just keeping them in your home refrigerator? They'll likely only stay fresh for a few weeks.
They are, it's just long before they're put out on display. That's how they manage to have fresh New York state apples in February.
They also pull out the oxygen: https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/11/26/668256349/th...
> The perfect combination of temperature and gases, which differs for each variety, allows apples to stay fresh for longer after harvest than if they were simply refrigerated. Commercially refrigerating apples only preserves the fruit for a few months before it gets soft and dehydrated. And just keeping them in your home refrigerator? They'll likely only stay fresh for a few weeks.
> Also that you should store things at home like they are in the store, and apples are never refrigerated at the store.
I would suppose the grocer's tradeoff is slightly different than yours. For them, it ought to be about trading shelf-life extension against refrigeration costs. For me, I'd rather extend the shelf-life of the apple even if it costs more to refrigerate it than it would to buy a new one, because I dislike throwing out food. I even freeze some produce that is about to go bad if I don't have an immediate plan for it.
I would suppose the grocer's tradeoff is slightly different than yours. For them, it ought to be about trading shelf-life extension against refrigeration costs. For me, I'd rather extend the shelf-life of the apple even if it costs more to refrigerate it than it would to buy a new one, because I dislike throwing out food. I even freeze some produce that is about to go bad if I don't have an immediate plan for it.
I suspect that is for farmers or grocers that want to store a harvest for extended periods of time, even into the spring after fall harvest. I guess some amount of mealiness is hard to avoid in that case but it would be mitigated in a controlled humidity and gas environment as recommended. If you do all of those things you can bring them to room temp and expect them to last a few days on your customer's counter.
> apples are never refrigerated at the store
Maybe this is for untreated apples? But still those values for apples looks surprisingly low.
Maybe this is for untreated apples? But still those values for apples looks surprisingly low.
> U.S. grades are Fancy, Extra 1, No. 1, No. 1 Small, No. 1 Large and No. 2.
Not sure why, but I feel happy that "Fancy Cucumber" is a formal definition.
Not sure why, but I feel happy that "Fancy Cucumber" is a formal definition.
I really disagree on potato. It goes soft fairly quickly in the room temperature but keeps for ages in the refrigerator. I eat a lot of potatoes and haven't noticed anything wrong with them after long periods of refrigerator storage.
Potaties are traditionally stored in a cool and dark cellar so yeah I doubt the kitchen countertop is optimal.
Submitted here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40704785
What about cucumbers that have been cut open?
E.g. salad cucumbers[1] are long enough that it's not uncommon to use a half at a time.
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucumber#/media/File:Organic_G...
E.g. salad cucumbers[1] are long enough that it's not uncommon to use a half at a time.
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucumber#/media/File:Organic_G...
cut veggies should go in the fridge
You can leave them in the fridge. Just eat the rest the next day.
I don't think it is a good idea to keep vegetables for days anyway. I usually buy my vegetables the day I start eating them.
I don't think it is a good idea to keep vegetables for days anyway. I usually buy my vegetables the day I start eating them.
What? Unless vegetables are showing clear signs of decay (e.g. cucumber becomes yellow and soft) they are safe to eat for weeks after purchase. Many vegetables can be stored for many months if you manage temperature, light and humidity properly.
Back in the days, people would store vegetables in a cold basement for up to 1 year. Potatoes are stored dry and dark, carrots and cabbage are pulled straight out of the ground, not cleaned or divided roots/leaves, and are kept moist and dark (the old folks would stack up layers of wet moss and veggies), while garlic and onions are kept dry and dark and separate from the rest.
Back in the days, people would store vegetables in a cold basement for up to 1 year. Potatoes are stored dry and dark, carrots and cabbage are pulled straight out of the ground, not cleaned or divided roots/leaves, and are kept moist and dark (the old folks would stack up layers of wet moss and veggies), while garlic and onions are kept dry and dark and separate from the rest.
I live in a hot and relatively humid climate, and don't have any basement. The permanent market is just a 2 minutes walk from home. Given the climate we don't have a winter season with no production. No reason to store fresh vegetables, I only store stuff that is sold in tin cans.
AH, I miss the times when lives were simpler.
Source says optimal temperature is 10-12.5°C. My fridge is 6°C. My kitchen is generally above 19°C and often well above that, like 25°C. Is storing it 4°C too cold worse than storing them 10+°C too hot? I doubt it...
yeah room temperature is very dependent on the location. For all but 2 months a year, mine is above 20°C and can raise up to the 30s during the day from late may/early june.
If your fridge is above 4 C it's not preventing bacterial growth. You're living dangerously.
My fridge is always 5C (siemens), old model (bosch) was 6C since otherwise back of was creating some ice. No issue with bacteria whatsoever. But we don't keep meat after expiration date (or just freeze it), cheese/diary are usually more than fine well after that, veggies and fruits don't rot in any unexpected manner.
Broken link PDF: Storing Fresh Fruits and Vegetables for Better Taste https://postharvest.ucdavis.edu/sites/g/files/dgvnsk12711/fi...
Thank you!
Here is the cheatsheet UC Davis made: https://ucdavis.app.box.com/s/sjpm10a24scbvwfm005epgab00i8f5...
Was referenced but unavailable at the original link.
Was referenced but unavailable at the original link.
Maybe if you're getting your citrus fresh near UC Davis it makes sense to keep them on the counter. For those of us who have to buy shipped from out of state, they're going to go skunky much faster. Most citrus will keep for a long time in the fridge, granted you may have some acid degradation.
I am always amazed at how ignorant I am about simple things in my life like this.
Some basic things like this are counterintuitive.
For instance bread stored in the fridge will go stale; bread in the freezer will not.
For instance bread stored in the fridge will go stale; bread in the freezer will not.
I love this for bread. I normally give a huge pack from Costco and remove two slices for my lunch every day. It acts a small ice-pack for the 20 minute trip to work for the rest of the sandwich bits and by the time I eat it for lunch it's perfectly thawed and not stale.
But bread (and most things) in the freezer can get freezer burn! Discovered it when I was finally desperate enough to use the spare frozen bread. Now I simply keep them on rotation, use the oldest one at any time.
Ugh, you sound like my mom - never would let us have any of the delicious soft fresh bread if there was still old bread left.
haha, it's sliced bread, I find it's good enough after toasting. if I keep it out, half of it goes bad before I can get to it. I only have two slices in the morning.
I do like putting other bread in the oven for 5 minutes to breathe some life back into them though.
I do like putting other bread in the oven for 5 minutes to breathe some life back into them though.
> For instance bread stored in the fridge will go stale
Unless it's in an airtight container.
Unless it's in an airtight container.
I don’t think this makes much of a difference. AFAIK retrogradation of the starches is the major culprit of staling. This process is advanced by the cold inside the fridge, not moisture or air contact.
Freezing stops the process; cooling quickens it.
Freezing stops the process; cooling quickens it.
> I don’t think this makes much of a difference.
From practical experience, it really does. To a huge extent.
It's why most major supermarkets (unless forbidden by law) will wrap their home brand breads in packaging with holes in it. Higher sales because the bread is always hard as a rock 2 days later unless placed in an airtight container.
That's in southern and middle (east) Australia's climate anyway. :)
From practical experience, it really does. To a huge extent.
It's why most major supermarkets (unless forbidden by law) will wrap their home brand breads in packaging with holes in it. Higher sales because the bread is always hard as a rock 2 days later unless placed in an airtight container.
That's in southern and middle (east) Australia's climate anyway. :)
I make a lot of bread at home, and bread in an airtight container, at room temp, goes moldy within 48 hours where I live. I can imagine this wouldn’t happen in the fridge.
Store bought bread follows its own rules though. Given the sheer quantity of additives they have.
Where I have lived, if you put traditionally made bread (just water, salt, flour and yeast) in an airtight container at room temperature it’ll be covered in mold within a day or two.
Store bought bread follows its own rules though. Given the sheer quantity of additives they have.
Where I have lived, if you put traditionally made bread (just water, salt, flour and yeast) in an airtight container at room temperature it’ll be covered in mold within a day or two.
> ... it’ll be covered in mold within a day or two.
Wow, sounds like a super active biosphere in your part of the world.
In East Coast Australia I've not had things go like that. Mold is pretty rare on bread unless something weird is going on.
Wow, sounds like a super active biosphere in your part of the world.
In East Coast Australia I've not had things go like that. Mold is pretty rare on bread unless something weird is going on.
I think it's more because 1. you are storing it in the fridge (which would speed up the staling, but retard the mold formation), and 2. because I only eat bread that's just made with wheat, flour, water, salt, and yeast.
Shop bought bread takes a lot longer to stale and to mold, because it has plenty of additives designed to do just that.
Shop bought bread takes a lot longer to stale and to mold, because it has plenty of additives designed to do just that.
> ... it has plenty of additives designed to do just that.
Um, isn't it just the US whose bread is full of additives?
Other countries I've been to don't, and Australia doesn't commonly either.
Um, isn't it just the US whose bread is full of additives?
Other countries I've been to don't, and Australia doesn't commonly either.
Interesting. Now do the US? :)
Then parts touching the condesation get soggy.
I don't recall seeing that happen.
Why would there be condensation?
Why would there be condensation?
Except if you don't store them in the fridge, they seem to dehydrate pretty fast (couple of days).
So there's more to it than just temperature being the problem.
So there's more to it than just temperature being the problem.
someone linked this in the comments
http://www.savefoodfromthefridge.com/p/humidity-of-fruit-veg...
http://www.savefoodfromthefridge.com/p/humidity-of-fruit-veg...
Seems like more of a hassle than just chucking them in the fridge, but it might appeal to some. :)
Then you haven't seen the last one!
http://www.savefoodfromthefridge.com/p/verticality-of-root-v...
Truly next level stuff.
http://www.savefoodfromthefridge.com/p/verticality-of-root-v...
Truly next level stuff.
WAAAAAY too much effort I reckon. ;)
Cucumbers also seem to last surprisingly long time just in the room temperature on the kitchen counter. I always buy about half a week's worth of cucumber (we eat a lot of cucumber so this is usually 3-4 large ones) in one go and just leave them on the kitchen counter. After cutting one open, the open end dries a bit in a few hours, but then you can just cut a small slice off before using it again.
refrigerators temperature is usually close to lower threshold those summer veggies can handle, but on the other side, if you live in a warmer climate they won't store much better at room temperature.
I don't have central A/C, I use split-wall units because I think it is way less wasteful to only cool the places that are actually being used.
Because of that, I always wondered if one those wine cooler refrigerators, which work around 13C would be a good compromise in terms of optimal storage of fresh vegetables and roots X power efficiency.
Has anyone tested this? I'd eventually buy one and try it, but if someone else is doing this, I would love to hear about their experience.
I don't have central A/C, I use split-wall units because I think it is way less wasteful to only cool the places that are actually being used.
Because of that, I always wondered if one those wine cooler refrigerators, which work around 13C would be a good compromise in terms of optimal storage of fresh vegetables and roots X power efficiency.
Has anyone tested this? I'd eventually buy one and try it, but if someone else is doing this, I would love to hear about their experience.
My MIL has commandeered our wine cooler and there's nothing but assorted vegetables in there now. I can't comment on whether this is a good practice or not.
Well, if she is doing it for some time by now, I would assume it is working :-)
Also tomatoes, it makes them mushy. They last just as long on the counter
As a rule of thumb – just store everything how the supermarket does, they want produce to last as long as possible too.
Tomatoes, cucumbers, oranges – you'll find them all unrefrigerated
Tomatoes, cucumbers, oranges – you'll find them all unrefrigerated
Those tomatoes, cucumbers, etc. were likely refridgerated all the way from the farm to the supermarket display, including in the supermarket's back rooms.
The supermarket is also simultaneously optimizing for other considerations like "do our consumers like bringing a sweater in the middle of summer to visit the produce section"?
The supermarket is also simultaneously optimizing for other considerations like "do our consumers like bringing a sweater in the middle of summer to visit the produce section"?
Yes in some limited cases, it depends a lot of where you live, and where those itens were sourced from. Anything traveling more than a couple hundred miles in a hot climate would justify this additional expense.
But an important point is that the temperature on those reefer units will be more similar to the one in a data center, than the one in a fridge. Lower temperatures will make harder to keep the optimal humidity level and the veggies will start dehydrating.
The idea of freshness in vegetables is basically keeping those thing's cells alive for as much as possible. Too hot, metabolism increases, too cold and they will dehydrate.
But an important point is that the temperature on those reefer units will be more similar to the one in a data center, than the one in a fridge. Lower temperatures will make harder to keep the optimal humidity level and the veggies will start dehydrating.
The idea of freshness in vegetables is basically keeping those thing's cells alive for as much as possible. Too hot, metabolism increases, too cold and they will dehydrate.
Not any European supermarket I've ever seen - to most I would have to bring an additional layer for any serious shopping, or have basically guaranteed some form of cold for next few days.
Selected veggies & fruits, all dairy, meat and so on - very cold places to be, even when ignoring freezer sections. And the cold seeps to other aisles and reaches quite far. But maybe French or Swiss people where I live have different acceptance criteria for this compared to say US, although my impression from US in the past was AC everywhere.
Selected veggies & fruits, all dairy, meat and so on - very cold places to be, even when ignoring freezer sections. And the cold seeps to other aisles and reaches quite far. But maybe French or Swiss people where I live have different acceptance criteria for this compared to say US, although my impression from US in the past was AC everywhere.
You find them unrefrigerated on the shop floor, but the supermarket - if their JIT delivery is efficient - are probably having them on the shop floor for less than a day. Do they refrigerate in transport, in the back-of-house?
In the UK the whole supermarket might be temperature controlled (cooled) where the domestic environment isn't.
Seems like it's probably pretty complex to work out
There's probably a mean indoor temperature above which refrigeration makes sense, for example.
In the UK the whole supermarket might be temperature controlled (cooled) where the domestic environment isn't.
Seems like it's probably pretty complex to work out
There's probably a mean indoor temperature above which refrigeration makes sense, for example.
Yep, just a rule of thumb – there are many things that the supermarket finds worth refrigerating
I've worked in the produce section of a supermarket. We had a refrigerated stock room that was used for everything except bananas. I don't know what temperature it was kept at, but I believe it was somewhat warmer than the usual 5C refrigerator temperature. It could well have been the 10C minimum recommended by the article.
Don't supermarkets go through their produce really quickly so multi-day storage isn't what they're optimizing for?
Cucumbers are refrigerated in stores around here.
As a rule of thumb: don't store them more than a couple of days. Easier.
Tricky for families that don't have time to shop more than once a week.
Difficult to imagine unless all members of the family are working 2 jobs. Most people are not living barricaded at home. They are leaving home at least once a day to go to work, even those working from home will at least go outside once a day. Those that have small kids will leave house to accompany and/or pickup kids at primary school, or to their extrascolar activities. All these errands can be mutualized with getting some fresh food.
Maybe true for families with older kids. I currently work from home most days and we have an 11 month old baby.
My typical schedule sees me working until 5:30pm, playing with the baby while the wife cooks until 6pm, eating dinner together until 6:30pm, bathing the baby getting it to bed around 7:30pm, then doing various housework, family admin tasks, or evening activities until 9pm before unwinding for an hour and going to bed to "sleep". The schedule is actually more pressured on days where I go to the office and don't get back until later.
My wife does have the opportunity to go to the shop in the morning or afternoon, but it is very contingent on energy levels (sleep is rarely good), baby nap times (variable but better off being respected), baby activity classes etc... . Going to the shop itself can take longer as you may need to suddenly deal with a nappy change or tantrum. It's not reasonable to expect it to happen multiple times a week.
My typical schedule sees me working until 5:30pm, playing with the baby while the wife cooks until 6pm, eating dinner together until 6:30pm, bathing the baby getting it to bed around 7:30pm, then doing various housework, family admin tasks, or evening activities until 9pm before unwinding for an hour and going to bed to "sleep". The schedule is actually more pressured on days where I go to the office and don't get back until later.
My wife does have the opportunity to go to the shop in the morning or afternoon, but it is very contingent on energy levels (sleep is rarely good), baby nap times (variable but better off being respected), baby activity classes etc... . Going to the shop itself can take longer as you may need to suddenly deal with a nappy change or tantrum. It's not reasonable to expect it to happen multiple times a week.
I used to enjoy going for a walk with my daughters in the babywrap when they were babies. Would run errands at the same time if needed. I think I can't count the kilometers I did walking with them strapped to me like that.
We do have a baby carrier but to do that would effectively remove the 30m post-work playtime. And I'm not always feeling up to a decent walk with 12kg strapped to my chest after a rough night's sleep! So yes, technically doable but imo not worth the reduction to quality of life.
Serious Eats did some digging and decided this is a myth.
https://www.seriouseats.com/why-you-should-refrigerate-tomat...
https://www.seriouseats.com/why-you-should-refrigerate-tomat...
Like all things, it depends. It's not necessarily a myth, but rather it depends on a number of factors. I'll be storing my tomatoes on the counter (upside down) as well as my cukes. Just unfortunate that I'm the only one in my household that likes tomatoes so I end up with a lot of waste sometimes.
You can put them in a paper towel and put that in a ziplock bag. Place that in the fridge, and they'll stay crisp much much longer than had they stayed on the counter.
I did not know this, but I knew that tomatoes taste superior when left out of the fridge. The strange thing is when the packaging on tomatoes says to store in the fridge.
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Is the same for fruits?
For some of them, yes. See the cheatsheet: https://postharvest.ucdavis.edu/sites/g/files/dgvnsk12711/fi...
Thank you!
“Cuces”…
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This site sometimes... Did none of you have a grandmother?
My grandmother put them in the fridge in hot weather, because she and I live in a place that routinely reaches over 40C in summer, easily hits human body temperature inside the house, and turns any watery vegetable into a Petri dish.
No. One was not worth knowing and the other died when I was young.
Edit because there seems to be some confusion about this: this is mainly constructed as a resource for farmers, grocers, etc, who are trying to bring produce to consumers in a state that it will arrive in their home at a good quality. Their requirements for length of time in storage/transport are very different from most consumers, and the resources they can devote to maintaining an optimal temperature, humidity, gas environment for a given type of produce are much more extensive. That said, there's plenty to learn from it as a consumer with the right eye, e.g. about how the tissue damage due to too cold storage may differ from too hot, or the ethylene interactions from storing various things together.